Exactly! If the president of the US was taken captive by a foreign power, I can't imagine the US military not using all their resources to rescue the president even if they lose more troops in the process than people rescued. It wouldn't even matter if they are a good president or not, it's the principle of the thing - foreign leaders invited to negotiate in foreign lands should be safe from assault by those foreign powers. If a leader is warned not to goto another country by that country and does anyway, that's a different story, but yeah, Kill invited the Union president and then the new leader kidnapped him? That demands a response in any scenario.
Remember in TNG when Spock went to Romulus and the Federation nearly pooped bricks? Wondering if he had defected or been taken hostage? The Admiral literally went and said, if either is true the damage to the Federation would be immense/incalculable he was a highly decorated star fleet veteran and major diplomat in a family of diplomats Now Imagine if the Federation president went missing and was spotted in Romulus? The man/woman/sentient being that oversees all major Federation decisions and acts, privy to every secret, every mission, every project, and major covert ops half of Starfleet would be in Romulus by the end of the week. The other half manning the neutral zone. And the klingons would probably keep their fleet active and near the border. In case the humans favorite sport of negotiations ends up in a shooting war.
I love how the show evolved into a more mature, Star Trek style show, instead of only a parody. They walk the line between parody and seriousness really really well
Oh, it's still parody or comedy. They don't even attempt to have a consistent canon or plausible physics or something. Just look at how that defending fleet is in their face a second after that ultimatum is sent. And just before that, there was nothing except black space and a lonely planet... the home planet of a militaristic interstellar super power. I mean, even Earth right now has more stuff in orbit...
It’s weird cuz when the union ships came out of hyperspace there was only like 18 ships but when both the fleets start attacking there’s like 40 union ships ?
I've seen a lot of people completely miss the point of this engagement, thinking it was meant to be a strategic advance against the Krill, when it was simply a very elaborate distraction to allow Lamarr and Dr Finn to extract the Delegation, which included the President, the VP, an Admiral, one of the luckiest captains in the Union, and someone capable of visualizing the fourth dimension, an ability that is so rare, it is a 'Once in a generation' occurence.
"Elaborate"? Even "very elaborate"? Federation seems to be based on US Navy experience in many, many ways... and history prooves that USN made many mistakes and stupid decisions, but... well... they never did these kind of elaborate decisions so far. Commanding real military vessels is little different than playing RTS game, where u just select all units and send them against enemy... if they fail, u build forces again and again. I dont expect movies to be real in every sense, but I wouldn't mind if they didn't harm wievers inteligence, that is all. And we all know that trekkies will "explain" everything that happens in their fav movie, but if the creators count only on this, it is just not enough for me.
@@failsafe123123 To put things in perspective, the U.S. Navy demolished Joseon's (Korea) entire defense structure in the 1890s because a cargo ship ran aground onto Korea and Joseon killed the crew. About 5,000 Koreans died and 15 castles along the Han river were wiped off the map. It's a possible reason Joseon fell to the Japanese so easily in 1915. The U.S. Navy does make decisions like that to prevent future stupidity from other countries. Sometimes it seems barbaric or short sighted, but this is a diplomatic delegation with a sitting Union President. Even if the Union lost twenty ships and thousands of crew, it sends a message to no screw with the Union like that.
@@Zachomara I had not heard of this engagement before. Interesting! And I agree 100 percent. It is important to speak softly and carry a big stick. And be willing to use it out of all proportion to the provocation, specifically in order to send a fearful future message for all time that amounts to "Do NOT mess with us again, under ANY circumstances, or you WILL pay the price!" This is how you set the basis of good future foreign relations.
@@Zachomara Mark Twain once defined diplomacy in a humorous, but very apropos way. Below is a paraphrase from memory. "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggy, nice doggy!', while urgently looking for a brick to knock him endways with". 😂
There's a story of (Lou Bei I think) an incredible general who could shot arrows and kill anyone on the battlefield. The sieged city gave all their arrows to the general and he shot every single one until the entire stockpile for the whole army was depleted, and after a day of no arrow volleys, the enemy knew the MVP general was out of ammo. In an effort to replenish supplies, the general loaded up a ship with men and made it seem like he was trying to flee/retreat down river, the ship being refortified to with stand assault. The Ship was targeted with ranged attacks for hours. It turns out the ship was completely, refortified for a different reason, The ship was covered head-to-toe with all the fabric and ropes the city could spare. After being peppered with arrows, the ship returned back home and the defenders removed all the stuck undamaged arrows from the ship's hull and gave them to the general. Spoilers, the general won the fight.
So they recovered 6 people in a shuttle, lost a couple hundred in battle and then left a few ships worth of crew behind after hastily abandoning the enemy planet's orbit? That's what I call a total victory.
So the people themselves are only a small part of the reason why a civilization would start a fight like this over a small delegation. The main reason is probably because you HAVE to respond to such actions or your own people lose faith that you can protect them and the enemy (the krill) become even bolder and believe they can commit more crimes without consequence. That being said, sallying forth to have a a knife range spacefight and leaving ships and people behind is a definitely bad/stupid move.
@@MarkJones-by6xv to be clear, it was a valid reason to attack to save your citizen's, the problem is ¿Why they leave behind military personnel? ¿How many wounded? ¿How many war prisoner's just abandoned at the mercy of the enemy? ¿Why?? ¿Their lives doesn't matter?
@@guillermocaceres3854 thats why i said i agree that leaving people and ships behind was stupid. Honestly, an attack like this irl would probably be one ship trying diplomacy. If that fails, then a fleet would jump in and just bomb everything to hell.
Man it’s not like they were rescuing the Union PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT after a deal gone wrong and a coup launched by Teleya left them in a unlawful arrest and kindly point “war crimes”.
@@crichtonvasmoya4290 It was never a gag. It was only wearing a Family Guy suit because that was the only way Fox would produce anything from MacFarlane. It was always supposed to be it's own ScFi show, based on 80s Star Trek and other SciFi. Now Hulu executives give more freedom to MacFarlane and the creators so the show is able to leave behind the "Family Guy in space" act. With that I don't mean "no jokes" but that the comedy is more native to the Orville instead of being enforced by Fox which I think is a good thing.
its a shame it never got to be a real SciFi show from the start. Even the first season is better than anything modern star trek related and that was when it meant to be a joke. Character and world development would have been a lot better if not the need to be funny. @@jimi4985
I know the show is called "the Orville" so the show obviously has to be about the ship and its crew, however, considering how much of an impact Ed & his crew have had in all 3 seasons to the Planetary Union, you'd think they'd all have been promoted to a larger heavy cruiser ship by now. 😁
Why take them away from the place where they perform the best? Why disrupt that? The same thing can be said in _Star Trek IV- The Voyage Home,_ when Admiral Kirk needed to be punished for his crime, but the Federation Council didn't want to lose such a valuable asset. They probably knew he was not suited to a desk job (the same as him all the way back in _Star Trek The Motion Picture_ ), but that he excelled as a starship captain. So the most reasonable course of action was demotion _rather than_ imprisonment, and then place _Captain_ Kirk in command of the newly-renamed _Enterprise-A._
@@Kashis_Corner I'm so tired of this response. The Expanse is great, of course, but high levels of realism don't always make great drama. Most battles in The Expanse, onscreen, were boring, especially compared to what was described in the books.
@@Wraithage79 I just outright disagree. As a huge scifi fan (BSG, old and new Star Trek, old and new Star Wars, Star Gate ect) The Expanse has to be my top ranking just because its so real. A comparison between 3 minute scenes; Here we see bad tactics (Like taking dozens of ships to save 6 people, which was explored already in StarTrek to a much better degree), bad tech, and actions that seem genuinly fake (like that shuttle drift). But looking at the Rocinante vs The Pella, you can see each INDIVIDUAL shot, and track it through frames and see each shot hit. This show makes space feel 'fluid' and fake. If you thought think The Expanse is boring, this must just be mind numbingly boring. If you look to literally any GodFather of SciFi you will hear them tie it in with REAL LIFE comparisons, that is because everything has to have some basis in real life, or else it has no context. (For extra context here, no G-Forces (easily 6G) on the shuttle 'drift', but they jolt when they land, so it can't be inertial dampeners. Their left wing is on fire, and then suddenly just... isnt. Continuity doesn't mean realistic, it means care and attention. I would rather that, than this.) [Added continuity, Bobby Draper in the Expanse, you can see where she gets shot on her armour. As in, every fight adds permanent damage to her costume that is never removed. That. Is attention to detail.] THAT is why people keep trying to recommend it. You know that after The Expanses second season they considered cancelling it due to ratings. It was people like Chie who would throw it out to people who MAY NOT ALREADY KNOW IT EXISTS! I got multiple people, hardcore sci-fi fan who loved it enough to lower some of their favourite shows and films in their personal rankings. Now, seeing people talk about "But the Orville is so much better than X, Y and Z" in almost every comment section. That shit. That shit is annoying. I was watching a clip from the Halo TV show, and someone said something like "That wouldn't happen in the Orville, this show is too dark"... NGL, The Orville fanbase is probably the cringest out there just because they compare everything to this junk. And for reference, he was asking a question, not responding with a statement, if your tired of people asking other people if they've seen a show, that seems like your issue, not theirs.
How the fuck is this even considered “good” it’s generic copy/paste ships with zero sense of weight with absolutely hideous designs. You people are too busy trying to cover your face on Seth’s baby batter instead of actually thinking about what makes a good sci fi battle other than “it’s not Star Trek and ohhh pretty colours”. So cringe.
I always find it remarkably convenient that opposing battle fleets fire lasers of different colours...it certainly helps the viewers understand what's going on. 😆
Its not just convenient, it also mirrors the characteristics of the species and their home world. Union ships have blue lasers because earth has a large amount of water, and looks blue. Krill ships have green lasers because their planet has a dark atmosphere, so a bright color may be disturbing for them. Moclan ships have yellow/orange(I think) because their planet is full of pollution and has an orange tinge to its atmosphere. And finally Krill ships have red because when they turned against their builders, their eyes took a red glow, and their ships also mimic that facial feature of theirs
My headcanon is that all recordings and visuals in space are more like Augmented reality, enhanced by computers (hence the lack of lighting-issues in space) and they overlay weapons-fire with faction-specific color choices to make it easier for us and the characters to keep track of things. This works for most sci-fi *glares at Star Wars* but not all.
Hope they show admiral Ozawa more next season. Love the Orville series, definitely feels more like trek as a whole, though the space battles aren’t perfect and a lot of people make good points about them… btw they have a lot of different types of ships in this fleet, they have fighters, science and explorer classes and leviathan class battleships here, they just don’t look massively distinct from each other.
I think it has something to do with the type of FTL and the FTL drive they use. Most likely that shape that most of there ships use is the most efficient. The Drive can even be seen on there fighters. Suspected gravetic manipulation.
There's something I've been wondering about for some time: The Union captured an entire Krill ship intact back in season 1. A golden opportunity to reverse engineer Krill technology and adapt things like deflectors and weapons accordingly. And then there was the deflector upgrade by the Moclans in season 2. And still the Union's ships are outmatched by the Krill's. I think the Union's ships should've had a much better chance against the Krill with the captured technology and the deflector upgrade.
Your talking about a comparison about equal to Starfleet vs the Klingons, Starfleet leans on diplomacy and exploration and therefore doesnt have a lot of pure combat ships vs the Klingons who are a warlike race that sacrifice looks and comfort in their ships for more weapons and such. A warlike race would focus more on weapons technologies and shields vs a peaceful race that would focus on things like crop yields, colonization techniques, terraforming, faster warp travel, better sensors. So its all about what your group chooses to prioritize and in a scene like this the Krill would be the Klingons and the Orville would be part of Starfleet. Thats why in nearly every scene with the Orville it gets its teeth kicked in, its an exploration ship akin to Voyager rather than a cruiser like the Enterprise and they quantumed in with a very large number of Orville class ships in this scene.
Union ships are most definitely superior to their Krill counterparts Take the Kaylon ambush at Sabek 3 for example. the tactics and decisions utilized by the Union shows me their strength, as they start off outnumbered, yet stay and fight for a time before ordering a retreat. When the Moclan-Krill allied fleet see the Kaylon approach to assist the Union, the Krill admiral almost immediately laments "Avis help us all" and then Dies
It's always weird watching these clips after not watching the show for a while. I keep forgetting they don't have transporters. They really are spoiled in Star Trek.
the mere score of this show is just so wonderful.. the orville has a wonderful taste for adapting the music according to the atmosphere, i sure hope the composer releases the new horizons soundtrack soon (edit: the soundtrack is out BUT the only track missing is the music that plays when they enter orbit with the fleet)
@@ThePASBERUK pre-Kaylon threat, that was true, but after, those ships got upgrades.... hell, even pre-Kaylon they still had to fight the Krill and others, so it seems a bit silly to always be so limited in combat options
Yeah, when I see this stuff I see ships that weren't designed by people with a military background and action scenes that weren't written by people with a military background. A ship like that would have small weapons for destroying objects in their path As backup to whatever deflector system they use. Plus lighter weapons for tracking smaller ships and then heavier anti ship weapons.
@@timothyarnold1679 and also watched anything about wars or military tech. Honestly, armaments aside, the ships probably aren't even *that* bad, but the military tactics as so bad it's like Zapp Brannigan playing a RTS.
You get a wide shot of the whole union fleet arrive, consolidate and then move to the Krill home world. Another wide shot of the Union fleet arrive at the Krill home world same number of ships. Battle commences and the Union fleet is now almost 4 times the size it was when it arrived LOL silly silly silly
At this point, as fun as it would definitely be to see a fight between the two, it would be a one sided affair. The Union's vessels are vastly more agile than Starfleet's are, but the main concerning weakness of Union starships are their blind spots. Their weapons are mostly forward facing while Starfleet vessels' primary weapons are multi-directional and capable of firing on more than one target at a time. Besides, the high agility of Union starships are negated by how accurate Starfleet phasers are. They likely would be able to outmaneuver photon torpedoes, but as we've seen phasers are more than enough on their own to not necessarily rely too heavily on torpedoes. I will grant that Union ships' primary weapons do pack a much bigger punch due to their design than phasers do, Starfleet vessels can unleash more firing power over a long period of time than Union vessels can due to the multi-direction range and multi-ship targeting ability that Starfleet vessels are capable of. Ship to ship, the Orville is likely capable of running circles around a Galaxy Class vessel and may even be a match with smart combat tactics, but fleet engagements would be a very different story. All this isn't even addressing how devastating Starfleet vessels' torpedo barrages can be IE: torpedo spread and the like.
I wish they would have stopped for a hot minute and thought about actual tactics and maneuver. This is just a bunch of ships running around and a mixed melee. In reality Fleet level tactics have a tremendous effect. For example, a well-organized group of twelve ships will utterly destroy a random group of twelve ships. They don't have to show us all the details but just drop a few hints that they actually are using Fleet level maneuvers. Have a few of the screenshots of battle showing organized groups of squads of ships. Show there's a group of Fighters and destroyers dedicated to protecting the Capital ships. It wouldn't cost anymore in terms of CGI. I'm not dogging on the show. I'm just suggesting this as an improvement.
I think it works for the Orville verse. Rush in and mix in enemy formation, force them to avoid hitting their own ships as well as yours. Ships don’t seem too hard to destroy.
@@JcBravo8 they actually used a form of maneuver showing that it matters in the episode with the kaylon weapon. Tactics begin to make a difference the instant you have three or more units. Whether those units are individual soldiers, boats, planes, Etc. If you get your attack off a fraction of a second before the other side, you live and they die which is why flanking is so important.
The Orville's battle scenes seem to resemble those of DS9. I remember in particular these kinds of moves and manoeuvres in battles of Chint'oka and the final battle of Cardiassia.
@@DavidKnowles0 Depends on the lucensees. The few remaining model kit companies in the U.S. aren't interested in Orville model kits. One of them is making bank releasing new kits based on the 1975-77 show Space:1999. They're going to dig farther by making kits from the 1970 one-season series UFO. But no Orville.
@@dalethelander3781 Because Orville has a lot of younger fans, and I'm not sure anyone born after 1986 knows what modeling glue is supposed to be used for.
@@starrionx1 You'd be surprised. Plastic modeling has been making a comeback, thanks to Round2. They own the Polar Lights, AMT, MPC, Lindberg, and Hawk brands. They release retooled and original Star Trek kits, Space:1999, Star Wars (including The Mandalorian), plus all the usual suspects of cars, planes, armor, what-have-you. Right now, they're tooling up the first two kits in the UFO line, the Moonbase Interceptor and the S.H.A.D.O. Mobile. Finally, accurate kits from that tv series. For the record, a company called Fantastic Plastic made a small-scale Orville in polueurathane resin, but they were hit with a C & D order.
@@LGranthamsHeir i'm sorry but lol it's okay. The more I watch the Orville the more i can say it's not but it's okay. it's a freakin great series yes it's literally "Seth-Trek"
is it just me or do the leviathan class ships of the Union fleet never fire a shot while their on screen? like u don't actually see them fire their weapons up close
I want in season 4 (hopefully) where like in voyager the Union make a new experimental vessel that instead of being meant for scientific or exploratory purposes. They are meant to address the military factor that the Union badly needs with Kaylon tech upgrades.
its an Exploratory class vessel, built for speed, range, endurance. She's the side of a light destroyer. Effectivly she's a light destroyer. There are smaller sips then her that operate as corvettes packing the same firepower, but with less range. there are also light and heavy cruisers that are bigger then her, battleships, super battleships, carriers. Upgrade isn't the issue for the ship. Its punching well above its weight class and doing well for itself.
While we get extremely limited information on their tactics, we can say for certain that when they are on the defensive, the Union ships form a physical “line” as they maneuver throughout the battle. This is mentioned in the episode “Identity Part 2” when Lt Lamar says “5 Kaylon have broke through the line, they’re heading for earth”
@@giovannirodriguesdasilva646 It could also be similar to a MAC gun in Halo, where the ships need to literally point in the direction of the target in some way. It could explain why they seem to concentrate on piloting and maneuverability more than straight up firepower.
@@Zachomara Halo ships still have tons of diverse weapons aside of their main Mac guns. The way ships are designed in Orville is amateurish at best, even thought small craft like fighters exist in their verse.
Given that massive enemy fleets can drop out of hyperspace right on top of planets, I would expect that heavily populated worlds would have massive planetary defense systems, orbital fortresses, and probably minefields around them.
They can't really do that when there very limited. Plus that's taking a big risk because what if you do that and you ended up pissing off I don't know maybe like THOUSANDS of planets that's either allianced with the krill or the union because that would be going against the unions code
I was dissapointed then. Of all the things Picard has going for it (Yes I love Picard and all new trek. SHUT UP!) Season 1's finale was missing that space battle.
You do realize the krill can't really DO shit with EXPLORER class ships plus they were SAVING THE PRESIDENT WHICH THEU AREN'T GONNA TAKE EVEN MORE RISK JUST TO SAVE A FRACTION OF THERE ENITIER FLEET SCATTERED ACROSS UNION TERRITORY
Far more standardised ships than anything in trek, not to mention the numbers available. This actually sells a larger organisation n ways trek never could with its colonies of ~20 people in an agri town or it’s high tech visits to banquet halls with tens of people, tens I say.
Not surprising that Copy & Paste with pure CGI is more scalable than filming real people and real ship models, with painstaking 1980s analogue compositing.
And this is how you know there were no Canadian captains on any of the ships...we would have just started firing indiscriminately at the planet itself until they surrendered...
To those complaining about the loss of life to rescue 4 people remember one of those if the PRESIDENT of the union of course they are going to go all out no matter the cost to rescue him. IRL the military would do the same thing.
The shuttle should've landed on the first viable Union ship, but it passed all the ships to get to the Orville. Kelly could've stayed in command until the fleet got to a safe distance. Thanks for the clip.
I'll Quote Mark Jones in this these comments: "you HAVE to respond to such actions or your own people lose faith that you can protect them and the enemy (the krill) become even bolder and believe they can commit more crimes without consequence."
You make two types of movies: ones in which everything should really have sense and ones in which nothing is really expected to have sense. Now, lets guess where Orville belongs? ;-P. We have 2022 but they still consider space battles as "piu-piu-piu" knife fights in taverns.
I have only seen this clip but have the following questions. If planetary defenses came online, how did the shuttle make it off planet? Wouldn't it have been shot out of the air before breaking atmosphere? Also, I think Adm. Ozawa ordered the retreat because they were losing the fight and wanted to preserve the fleet. Otherwise she might have ordered the Orville to retreat to ensure the delegation escape alive and keep the fleet there to continue the battle. Eventually, either destroying the Krill fleet or push them out of system before laying siege to the planet. While this may just be because of budgetary concerns for the show, but the UEF really needs some ships purpose built for warfighting.
I agree with you , from what I have seen in the show the unions ships are suppose to be exploring ships, but somehow they can go to war with them, with children and non combat people in them
@@tommale7631 They may be ships geared towards exploration, but that does not mean they should not be able to defend themselves especially when out of range of help. Can you imagine if the union actually had full on warships considering what the exploration ships were able to put up in this situation?
you are assuming that there were static planetary defenses, and that they weren't engaged in firing at the fleet battle in orbit. a shuttle is a low priority target unless they were notified who was onboard, then it became a high priority target.
If that was a "even" battle... with a massive retreat in a batle like that... is bound to los ships in that momment plus left damaged ships behind.... a lot of KIA and MIA there.
You can waltz up to a major interstellar super power's home planet with a humongous fleet, all without being challenged or seeing a single space ship? And the very second after sending your ultimatum the defending fleet is up in your face?
cool fight but how many people were they trying to save vs how many did they just get killed.. also how did everyone just break contact so easily. i saw half a dozen ships get their engines wrecked but when it was time to go they were all suddenly fine? if even one of those ships couldn't run, you now have even more people trapped. at what point do you say, well there's nothing we can do. if they risk a whole fleet for like 5 people they cant very well just leave a full capital ship behind. so now they have to commit to the battle regardless.
Well one of those five people was president of the Union so that justifies the effort. Good point on potential Union prisoners. That would be a nice follow-up for future seasons.
Only some people's lives matter .. The people / crews they lost .. or those they put at risk .. were all viewed as 'expendable' .. it doesn't matter how bad the ratio is .. 100:1 , 1000:1 , lost to recover ratio. Also in addition to their own 'expendable people' .. those 5 people are also worth ... The billions of citizens of the planet are now 100% rationalized to legitimately see them as evil attacking aliens .. they just brought a hostile alien space fleet and attacked the planet .. thankfully the brave planetary defense forces were able to repel the evil attacking alien fleet this time , but they will be back to again try and force the planet to submit (enslave) to their alien authority , or kill those who oppose them.
@@ianpgeorge the krill already saw the union as evil. Their religion believes that only the Krill have souls, everyone else is at best an animal and it is the Krills divine right to take whatever they want from other races. And the Krill are a very religious race. That is why the union didn't want a war against the Krill, they knew that any conflict would instantly become a 'holy crusade'.
@@Rembanspellsong So in this attack the Union justified and reinforced the Krill anti-union view as not only a religiously correct one , but also as completely rational and logical one supported by evidence.
People told me this was a great series.... this battle was stupid and made no sense. They recovered 6 people but lost countless ships in the fight and left the scene before the fleet did not knowing if everyone got out okay and left behind countless damaged or disabled ships and their crews. Brilliant writing.
They had great battleplan: "lets gather some ships, warp to contested space and see what happens". I believe when battle is started with such an ambitious agenda the very fact that SOME of them have actually survived is really a success. Of course they will never learn, so if we get another 20 battles in the series, they will all look like this one.
Space....The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Orville. Its continuing mission: To continue the sci-fi adventures inspired by Gene Roddenberry's visions. To seek first contacts with strange new aliens and civilizations. To boldly go where no 'Nu Trek' has gone before!
"And to make no logical sense while its doing it".. I mean.. c'mon. The space battle looks like its from Star Wars ROTS, the 'drift' that shuttle did makes literally no sense. Its like someone went "How can we make sci-fi make even less sense". Compared to BSG, Star Wars and Star Trek this has always just felt like a tacky series to me. Never mind the fact that you see like 5 ships of theirs get blown up in about 30 seconds of the start of the fight. How have they survived this long? How are the ships damaged meant to retreat? What about if the Krill use this chance to just take more prisoners. This has more holes than swiss cheese...
SOOOO several hundred if not thousands of dead on both sides... dozens of ships destroyed... to rescue 6 people? Who DAFUQ came up with this story? And on a lesser note, HTF did I get here?
Uh 6 people consist of admiral, president, important senator, Ship navigator, a decorated captain on the verge of being executed in enemy capital. Krill wil have slap in the face by losing a chance to kill HVT while on their own turf
my main gripe is theres hardly any lore on the specifications on ships and weapons... just generric blue lasers vs green or red lasers... cant see any missiles or torpedoes or any other variation of weaponry....
So they have technology with sophisticated computational powers to allow them to traverse the universe, but when the battle breaks out they aim (and miss) with their weapons????
What ires me more is the ships are not in any formation and packed together like sardine. Even with fewer ships that are well space out can better show the immense space battle.
yes it doesn't make much sense does it? On the other hand on the enemy planet members of the galactic council along with the the PRESIDENT were captive and ready to be executed. I have seen Wars on Earth for much lesser reasons.
One of those people was the president of the Planetary Union. I suspect most states would expend at least some effort to retrieve their kidnapped head of state.
![The Orville: New Horizons - Kaylon Ambush at Sabek Three [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ekqPaPRaaGY/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Orville: New Horizons - Kaylon Ambush at Sabek Three [4K]](/img/tr.png)
![Megan Thee Stallion - Mamushi (Remix) [feat. TWICE] [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5c0_u9PsrsQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"We'll try to avoid a firefight, but we did bring the entire fleet... just in case."
it kinda happens when you take the maximum authority of a cohalition of planet as an hostage lmao
It should be remembered that one of those people was the damned President of the Union, of course they were going to go all out to rescue them.
Exactly! If the president of the US was taken captive by a foreign power, I can't imagine the US military not using all their resources to rescue the president even if they lose more troops in the process than people rescued. It wouldn't even matter if they are a good president or not, it's the principle of the thing - foreign leaders invited to negotiate in foreign lands should be safe from assault by those foreign powers. If a leader is warned not to goto another country by that country and does anyway, that's a different story, but yeah, Kill invited the Union president and then the new leader kidnapped him? That demands a response in any scenario.
Remember in TNG when Spock went to Romulus and the Federation nearly pooped bricks? Wondering if he had defected or been taken hostage? The Admiral literally went and said, if either is true the damage to the Federation would be immense/incalculable he was a highly decorated star fleet veteran and major diplomat in a family of diplomats
Now Imagine if the Federation president went missing and was spotted in Romulus? The man/woman/sentient being that oversees all major Federation decisions and acts, privy to every secret, every mission, every project, and major covert ops half of Starfleet would be in Romulus by the end of the week. The other half manning the neutral zone. And the klingons would probably keep their fleet active and near the border. In case the humans favorite sport of negotiations ends up in a shooting war.
I love how the show evolved into a more mature, Star Trek style show, instead of only a parody. They walk the line between parody and seriousness really really well
It was never a parody just a homage. People just whined about the jokes.
@@LordTalax you mean it was a forced reaction to feedback instead of a natural deviation from the show writers?
Oh, it's still parody or comedy. They don't even attempt to have a consistent canon or plausible physics or something. Just look at how that defending fleet is in their face a second after that ultimatum is sent. And just before that, there was nothing except black space and a lonely planet... the home planet of a militaristic interstellar super power. I mean, even Earth right now has more stuff in orbit...
It became unwatchable woke crap.
It’s weird cuz when the union ships came out of hyperspace there was only like 18 ships but when both the fleets start attacking there’s like 40 union ships ?
I've seen a lot of people completely miss the point of this engagement, thinking it was meant to be a strategic advance against the Krill, when it was simply a very elaborate distraction to allow Lamarr and Dr Finn to extract the Delegation, which included the President, the VP, an Admiral, one of the luckiest captains in the Union, and someone capable of visualizing the fourth dimension, an ability that is so rare, it is a 'Once in a generation' occurence.
"Elaborate"? Even "very elaborate"? Federation seems to be based on US Navy experience in many, many ways... and history prooves that USN made many mistakes and stupid decisions, but... well... they never did these kind of elaborate decisions so far. Commanding real military vessels is little different than playing RTS game, where u just select all units and send them against enemy... if they fail, u build forces again and again. I dont expect movies to be real in every sense, but I wouldn't mind if they didn't harm wievers inteligence, that is all. And we all know that trekkies will "explain" everything that happens in their fav movie, but if the creators count only on this, it is just not enough for me.
@@failsafe123123 To put things in perspective, the U.S. Navy demolished Joseon's (Korea) entire defense structure in the 1890s because a cargo ship ran aground onto Korea and Joseon killed the crew. About 5,000 Koreans died and 15 castles along the Han river were wiped off the map. It's a possible reason Joseon fell to the Japanese so easily in 1915.
The U.S. Navy does make decisions like that to prevent future stupidity from other countries. Sometimes it seems barbaric or short sighted, but this is a diplomatic delegation with a sitting Union President. Even if the Union lost twenty ships and thousands of crew, it sends a message to no screw with the Union like that.
@@Zachomara I had not heard of this engagement before. Interesting!
And I agree 100 percent. It is important to speak softly and carry a big stick. And be willing to use it out of all proportion to the provocation, specifically in order to send a fearful future message for all time that amounts to "Do NOT mess with us again, under ANY circumstances, or you WILL pay the price!"
This is how you set the basis of good future foreign relations.
@@Zachomara Mark Twain once defined diplomacy in a humorous, but very apropos way. Below is a paraphrase from memory.
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggy, nice doggy!', while urgently looking for a brick to knock him endways with". 😂
There's a story of (Lou Bei I think) an incredible general who could shot arrows and kill anyone on the battlefield.
The sieged city gave all their arrows to the general and he shot every single one until the entire stockpile for the whole army was depleted, and after a day of no arrow volleys, the enemy knew the MVP general was out of ammo.
In an effort to replenish supplies, the general loaded up a ship with men and made it seem like he was trying to flee/retreat down river, the ship being refortified to with stand assault.
The Ship was targeted with ranged attacks for hours.
It turns out the ship was completely, refortified for a different reason, The ship was covered head-to-toe with all the fabric and ropes the city could spare.
After being peppered with arrows, the ship returned back home and the defenders removed all the stuck undamaged arrows from the ship's hull and gave them to the general.
Spoilers, the general won the fight.
So they recovered 6 people in a shuttle, lost a couple hundred in battle and then left a few ships worth of crew behind after hastily abandoning the enemy planet's orbit? That's what I call a total victory.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought of this lol
So the people themselves are only a small part of the reason why a civilization would start a fight like this over a small delegation. The main reason is probably because you HAVE to respond to such actions or your own people lose faith that you can protect them and the enemy (the krill) become even bolder and believe they can commit more crimes without consequence. That being said, sallying forth to have a a knife range spacefight and leaving ships and people behind is a definitely bad/stupid move.
@@MarkJones-by6xv to be clear, it was a valid reason to attack to save your citizen's, the problem is ¿Why they leave behind military personnel? ¿How many wounded? ¿How many war prisoner's just abandoned at the mercy of the enemy? ¿Why?? ¿Their lives doesn't matter?
@@guillermocaceres3854 thats why i said i agree that leaving people and ships behind was stupid. Honestly, an attack like this irl would probably be one ship trying diplomacy. If that fails, then a fleet would jump in and just bomb everything to hell.
Man it’s not like they were rescuing the Union PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT after a deal gone wrong and a coup launched by Teleya left them in a unlawful arrest and kindly point “war crimes”.
This looks more like Star Trek than something currently coming from the franchise.
I believe thats the point. It started as a gag about how ALL star trek is the same, but evolved into a replacement
@@crichtonvasmoya4290 It was never a gag. It was only wearing a Family Guy suit because that was the only way Fox would produce anything from MacFarlane. It was always supposed to be it's own ScFi show, based on 80s Star Trek and other SciFi. Now Hulu executives give more freedom to MacFarlane and the creators so the show is able to leave behind the "Family Guy in space" act. With that I don't mean "no jokes" but that the comedy is more native to the Orville instead of being enforced by Fox which I think is a good thing.
its a shame it never got to be a real SciFi show from the start. Even the first season is better than anything modern star trek related and that was when it meant to be a joke. Character and world development would have been a lot better if not the need to be funny.
@@jimi4985
if you close your eyes, and listen to the music, it sounds like an early Star Wars video game.
It really does
I know the show is called "the Orville" so the show obviously has to be about the ship and its crew, however, considering how much of an impact Ed & his crew have had in all 3 seasons to the Planetary Union, you'd think they'd all have been promoted to a larger heavy cruiser ship by now. 😁
Why take them away from the place where they perform the best? Why disrupt that?
The same thing can be said in _Star Trek IV- The Voyage Home,_ when Admiral Kirk needed to be punished for his crime, but the Federation Council didn't want to lose such a valuable asset. They probably knew he was not suited to a desk job (the same as him all the way back in _Star Trek The Motion Picture_ ), but that he excelled as a starship captain. So the most reasonable course of action was demotion _rather than_ imprisonment, and then place _Captain_ Kirk in command of the newly-renamed _Enterprise-A._
@@EVAUnit4A If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I agree.
You really did miss the point
You people take things to seriously and literally lol... 🙄
It's called an observational joke. You guys must be the life of the party eh?
@@chimaican01 Hey, _you_ brought up the technicality of shaking things up, we just responded in-kind.
Kudos for Seth and the crew for putting together several of the best space battles in any sci-fi series!
Have you seen The Expanse?
Babylon 5 had quite a good number
@@Kashis_Corner I'm so tired of this response. The Expanse is great, of course, but high levels of realism don't always make great drama. Most battles in The Expanse, onscreen, were boring, especially compared to what was described in the books.
@@Wraithage79 I just outright disagree. As a huge scifi fan (BSG, old and new Star Trek, old and new Star Wars, Star Gate ect) The Expanse has to be my top ranking just because its so real. A comparison between 3 minute scenes; Here we see bad tactics (Like taking dozens of ships to save 6 people, which was explored already in StarTrek to a much better degree), bad tech, and actions that seem genuinly fake (like that shuttle drift). But looking at the Rocinante vs The Pella, you can see each INDIVIDUAL shot, and track it through frames and see each shot hit. This show makes space feel 'fluid' and fake. If you thought think The Expanse is boring, this must just be mind numbingly boring. If you look to literally any GodFather of SciFi you will hear them tie it in with REAL LIFE comparisons, that is because everything has to have some basis in real life, or else it has no context. (For extra context here, no G-Forces (easily 6G) on the shuttle 'drift', but they jolt when they land, so it can't be inertial dampeners. Their left wing is on fire, and then suddenly just... isnt. Continuity doesn't mean realistic, it means care and attention. I would rather that, than this.) [Added continuity, Bobby Draper in the Expanse, you can see where she gets shot on her armour. As in, every fight adds permanent damage to her costume that is never removed. That. Is attention to detail.]
THAT is why people keep trying to recommend it. You know that after The Expanses second season they considered cancelling it due to ratings. It was people like Chie who would throw it out to people who MAY NOT ALREADY KNOW IT EXISTS! I got multiple people, hardcore sci-fi fan who loved it enough to lower some of their favourite shows and films in their personal rankings.
Now, seeing people talk about "But the Orville is so much better than X, Y and Z" in almost every comment section. That shit. That shit is annoying. I was watching a clip from the Halo TV show, and someone said something like "That wouldn't happen in the Orville, this show is too dark"... NGL, The Orville fanbase is probably the cringest out there just because they compare everything to this junk. And for reference, he was asking a question, not responding with a statement, if your tired of people asking other people if they've seen a show, that seems like your issue, not theirs.
How the fuck is this even considered “good” it’s generic copy/paste ships with zero sense of weight with absolutely hideous designs. You people are too busy trying to cover your face on Seth’s baby batter instead of actually thinking about what makes a good sci fi battle other than “it’s not Star Trek and ohhh pretty colours”. So cringe.
I always find it remarkably convenient that opposing battle fleets fire lasers of different colours...it certainly helps the viewers understand what's going on. 😆
Its not just convenient, it also mirrors the characteristics of the species and their home world. Union ships have blue lasers because earth has a large amount of water, and looks blue.
Krill ships have green lasers because their planet has a dark atmosphere, so a bright color may be disturbing for them.
Moclan ships have yellow/orange(I think) because their planet is full of pollution and has an orange tinge to its atmosphere.
And finally Krill ships have red because when they turned against their builders, their eyes took a red glow, and their ships also mimic that facial feature of theirs
@@xero4479 M'yeah...I prefer my explanation...
My headcanon is that all recordings and visuals in space are more like Augmented reality, enhanced by computers (hence the lack of lighting-issues in space) and they overlay weapons-fire with faction-specific color choices to make it easier for us and the characters to keep track of things.
This works for most sci-fi *glares at Star Wars* but not all.
In reality lasers wouldn't have any color unless the glass or crystal they are reflected through has that color.
@@gabrieliacoboni6951 Yes, I know. I'm using the term "laser" in the sci-fi sense, rather then the real world sense.
Hope they show admiral Ozawa more next season.
Love the Orville series, definitely feels more like trek as a whole, though the space battles aren’t perfect and a lot of people make good points about them…
btw they have a lot of different types of ships in this fleet, they have fighters, science and explorer classes and leviathan class battleships here, they just don’t look massively distinct from each other.
I think it has something to do with the type of FTL and the FTL drive they use. Most likely that shape that most of there ships use is the most efficient. The Drive can even be seen on there fighters. Suspected gravetic manipulation.
Its either too dark or cut and past ships this is detailed as fuck like a mini movie every week go Orville BOOM Bitch!!!!!!!
There's something I've been wondering about for some time:
The Union captured an entire Krill ship intact back in season 1.
A golden opportunity to reverse engineer Krill technology and adapt things like deflectors and weapons accordingly.
And then there was the deflector upgrade by the Moclans in season 2.
And still the Union's ships are outmatched by the Krill's.
I think the Union's ships should've had a much better chance against the Krill with the captured technology and the deflector upgrade.
I just think reverse engenering is very hard
@@daimend211 Tell that to Bob Lazar.
Your talking about a comparison about equal to Starfleet vs the Klingons, Starfleet leans on diplomacy and exploration and therefore doesnt have a lot of pure combat ships vs the Klingons who are a warlike race that sacrifice looks and comfort in their ships for more weapons and such. A warlike race would focus more on weapons technologies and shields vs a peaceful race that would focus on things like crop yields, colonization techniques, terraforming, faster warp travel, better sensors. So its all about what your group chooses to prioritize and in a scene like this the Krill would be the Klingons and the Orville would be part of Starfleet. Thats why in nearly every scene with the Orville it gets its teeth kicked in, its an exploration ship akin to Voyager rather than a cruiser like the Enterprise and they quantumed in with a very large number of Orville class ships in this scene.
You think the krill have just been sat with their thumbs up their asses?
They've been improving too.
Union ships are most definitely superior to their Krill counterparts
Take the Kaylon ambush at Sabek 3 for example. the tactics and decisions utilized by the Union shows me their strength, as they start off outnumbered, yet stay and fight for a time before ordering a retreat.
When the Moclan-Krill allied fleet see the Kaylon approach to assist the Union, the Krill admiral almost immediately laments "Avis help us all" and then Dies
It's like a glorious cross between Star Trek and Star Wars!
It's always weird watching these clips after not watching the show for a while. I keep forgetting they don't have transporters. They really are spoiled in Star Trek.
It really changes alot. Reminds me of Enterprise. Though here theres no choice, since even Enterprise had a transporter.
the mere score of this show is just so wonderful.. the orville has a wonderful taste for adapting the music according to the atmosphere, i sure hope the composer releases the new horizons soundtrack soon (edit: the soundtrack is out BUT the only track missing is the music that plays when they enter orbit with the fleet)
The Orchestra was hired by Seph for Family guy, He wanted the real thing and not some guy with a computer program imitation of one.
@@HOLLASOUNDS certainly explains a lot, also certainly the right choice.
@@akjackhd5804 Seph productions arguably have some of the best cinematic music today.
I enjoyed this, but those ships are *enormous* but only ever seem to have 2 cannons.
Given the damage they do, it appears they only need two.
remember , its an exploration ship not a war ship
@@ThePASBERUK pre-Kaylon threat, that was true, but after, those ships got upgrades.... hell, even pre-Kaylon they still had to fight the Krill and others, so it seems a bit silly to always be so limited in combat options
Yeah, when I see this stuff I see ships that weren't designed by people with a military background and action scenes that weren't written by people with a military background. A ship like that would have small weapons for destroying objects in their path As backup to whatever deflector system they use. Plus lighter weapons for tracking smaller ships and then heavier anti ship weapons.
@@timothyarnold1679 and also watched anything about wars or military tech.
Honestly, armaments aside, the ships probably aren't even *that* bad, but the military tactics as so bad it's like Zapp Brannigan playing a RTS.
It's funny how this is better star trek then the sequels
You get a wide shot of the whole union fleet arrive, consolidate and then move to the Krill home world. Another wide shot of the Union fleet arrive at the Krill home world same number of ships. Battle commences and the Union fleet is now almost 4 times the size it was when it arrived LOL silly silly silly
A fight between The Union fleet from Orville vs Starfleet from Star Trek would be something.
At this point, as fun as it would definitely be to see a fight between the two, it would be a one sided affair. The Union's vessels are vastly more agile than Starfleet's are, but the main concerning weakness of Union starships are their blind spots. Their weapons are mostly forward facing while Starfleet vessels' primary weapons are multi-directional and capable of firing on more than one target at a time. Besides, the high agility of Union starships are negated by how accurate Starfleet phasers are. They likely would be able to outmaneuver photon torpedoes, but as we've seen phasers are more than enough on their own to not necessarily rely too heavily on torpedoes.
I will grant that Union ships' primary weapons do pack a much bigger punch due to their design than phasers do, Starfleet vessels can unleash more firing power over a long period of time than Union vessels can due to the multi-direction range and multi-ship targeting ability that Starfleet vessels are capable of.
Ship to ship, the Orville is likely capable of running circles around a Galaxy Class vessel and may even be a match with smart combat tactics, but fleet engagements would be a very different story.
All this isn't even addressing how devastating Starfleet vessels' torpedo barrages can be IE: torpedo spread and the like.
I wish they would have stopped for a hot minute and thought about actual tactics and maneuver.
This is just a bunch of ships running around and a mixed melee. In reality Fleet level tactics have a tremendous effect.
For example, a well-organized group of twelve ships will utterly destroy a random group of twelve ships.
They don't have to show us all the details but just drop a few hints that they actually are using Fleet level maneuvers. Have a few of the screenshots of battle showing organized groups of squads of ships. Show there's a group of Fighters and destroyers dedicated to protecting the Capital ships.
It wouldn't cost anymore in terms of CGI. I'm not dogging on the show. I'm just suggesting this as an improvement.
Agreed, well stablish tactical groups, not just a space mosh pit
I think it works for the Orville verse. Rush in and mix in enemy formation, force them to avoid hitting their own ships as well as yours. Ships don’t seem too hard to destroy.
@@JcBravo8 they actually used a form of maneuver showing that it matters in the episode with the kaylon weapon.
Tactics begin to make a difference the instant you have three or more units. Whether those units are individual soldiers, boats, planes, Etc.
If you get your attack off a fraction of a second before the other side, you live and they die which is why flanking is so important.
The Orville's battle scenes seem to resemble those of DS9. I remember in particular these kinds of moves and manoeuvres in battles of Chint'oka and the final battle of Cardiassia.
Love it how their ships were completely vulnerable whilst charging up to jump, and the Krill just _stopped firing._ How considerate.
2:51 Another happy landing:)
wonder how many ships were left behind that were to damaged to retreat
a *lot* because The Union isn't very good tactics
@@InfernosReaper that's because you can't really do that much when you have explorer class ships
@@watamelony Even then, their tactics are way too sloppy... and it's not like their ships didn't get upgrades because of the kill-bots out there
How does The Orville not have more official merchandise, action figures and collectible ships???
Especially given that disney own them and they are suppose to be one of the best in the business at getting people to buy toys.
@@DavidKnowles0 Depends on the lucensees. The few remaining model kit companies in the U.S. aren't interested in Orville model kits. One of them is making bank releasing new kits based on the 1975-77 show Space:1999. They're going to dig farther by making kits from the 1970 one-season series UFO. But no Orville.
@@dalethelander3781 Because Orville has a lot of younger fans, and I'm not sure anyone born after 1986 knows what modeling glue is supposed to be used for.
@@starrionx1 You'd be surprised. Plastic modeling has been making a comeback, thanks to Round2. They own the Polar Lights, AMT, MPC, Lindberg, and Hawk brands. They release retooled and original Star Trek kits, Space:1999, Star Wars (including The Mandalorian), plus all the usual suspects of cars, planes, armor, what-have-you. Right now, they're tooling up the first two kits in the UFO line, the Moonbase Interceptor and the S.H.A.D.O. Mobile. Finally, accurate kits from that tv series.
For the record, a company called Fantastic Plastic made a small-scale Orville in polueurathane resin, but they were hit with a C & D order.
It’s crazy to me that the spoof show is better than most modern Star Trek shows
YES
Orville is great but i wouldn't say better
It's not a spoof show, it's Seth-Trek. But yes, it's three times better than the current "Trek" series on Paramount 😉
@@LGranthamsHeir i'm sorry but lol it's okay. The more I watch the Orville the more i can say it's not but it's okay. it's a freakin great series yes it's literally "Seth-Trek"
i wanna be clear here. If its Picard I will gladly help you throw that shit out the window
is it just me or do the leviathan class ships of the Union fleet never fire a shot while their on screen?
like u don't actually see them fire their weapons up close
huh.. yeah i noticed that as well .. im sure there's background shots where they do
@@akjackhd5804they actually fire a shot during the battle in draconis, their weapon kinda similar to krill ship located in chin, they have 6 cannon
Every ship I've seen them go up against kicks their butt .. It's time for an upgrade
Their ship is ta warship. It’s an explorer, so while it’s armed, it’s lightly armed. Not like a PU Heavy Cruiser.
I want in season 4 (hopefully) where like in voyager the Union make a new experimental vessel that instead of being meant for scientific or exploratory purposes. They are meant to address the military factor that the Union badly needs with Kaylon tech upgrades.
@@jigolocana7492 the thing is the PU recognises that it’s fleet isn’t just for exploration but for defence.
At the very least some weapon emplacements that can utilize a firing arc, not fixed guns...
its an Exploratory class vessel, built for speed, range, endurance. She's the side of a light destroyer. Effectivly she's a light destroyer. There are smaller sips then her that operate as corvettes packing the same firepower, but with less range. there are also light and heavy cruisers that are bigger then her, battleships, super battleships, carriers.
Upgrade isn't the issue for the ship. Its punching well above its weight class and doing well for itself.
Somebody has been watching Stargate SG1/Stark Trek TNG
Really getting into this show. Very much Star Trek whilst having it's own identity.
It deserves a fourth season at least.
Now that’s more like it .. shoot ‘em up baby, wheeee-hoo! Found the series on SBS on Demand 😵💫
Ships in the thumbnail look like little Andromeda class starships from that old "Kevin Serbo" show.
My only complaints are:
Drones are very useful.
While I don't doubt there are fleet tactics, can you at least show us?
While we get extremely limited information on their tactics, we can say for certain that when they are on the defensive, the Union ships form a physical “line” as they maneuver throughout the battle. This is mentioned in the episode “Identity Part 2” when Lt Lamar says “5 Kaylon have broke through the line, they’re heading for earth”
The Union needs to build actual battleships with multidimensional weapons
Why? Nobody in the universe has this kind of gun. 360°? Insanity
@@giovannirodriguesdasilva646 It could also be similar to a MAC gun in Halo, where the ships need to literally point in the direction of the target in some way. It could explain why they seem to concentrate on piloting and maneuverability more than straight up firepower.
@@Zachomara Halo ships still have tons of diverse weapons aside of their main Mac guns. The way ships are designed in Orville is amateurish at best, even thought small craft like fighters exist in their verse.
What they need, is the Space Battleship Yamato.
Kinda funny because in the comic older PU fleet has battleship armed with turret particle cannon
2:42 - 2:53 This scene resembles Starbuck's emergency landing in the reimagined BSG 😉
"Don't you think we're coming in a little fast?"
"No (crosses fingers)"
emergency landing plan B.
Plan B, sir?
yes, B. as in Barricade.
I'd lean more towards STV's shuttle landing
Meanwhile all the ships with damaged drives:
Well, fuck us, I guess.
I've seen very similar behavior in the supermarket car park. 🖖 👌 😃
People, it happened this way, because that's how it was in the script.
If you don't like it, write your own script.
Other Universe: Starfleet vs. Klingons😁
More like Starfleet vs Cardassians or Dominion. Notice the Krill looks like Albino Jem'Hadar in their features 😉
Union vs Moclans = Starfleet vs Klingons.
Union vs Kaylons = Starfleet vs Borg (or Cylons)
No, Starfleet is actually a threat to the Klingons. These Union ships seem to be made of paper. Except for Orville ofc.
Sometimes it feels like this show is more Star Trek than whatever passes as Star Trek nowadays.
Given that massive enemy fleets can drop out of hyperspace right on top of planets, I would expect that heavily populated worlds would have massive planetary defense systems, orbital fortresses, and probably minefields around them.
I love how instead of just copy pasting a few of the same ship they made each one their own, added multiple classes.
The reason why she said "with pleasure" is because the hull vibrates at max speed and she can feel it through her seat.
I say not to disengage, just to start glasing the panet or do an exterminatus move
Always nice to see people who like a good genocide...
They can't really do that when there very limited. Plus that's taking a big risk because what if you do that and you ended up pissing off I don't know maybe like THOUSANDS of planets that's either allianced with the krill or the union because that would be going against the unions code
So, aside from craptastic tactics, the Planetary Union ships just create a direct course for the Krill to follow straight back to Earth.
It would be the shittiest ass mistake to go directly to the union's home.
you act like the location of earth was some big secret. the krill have a similar map to the sector as the union does.
NOOO! Never go straight to your home planet!
Now this is what we needed in the picard s1 finale
I was dissapointed then. Of all the things Picard has going for it (Yes I love Picard and all new trek. SHUT UP!) Season 1's finale was missing that space battle.
2:11 Charlie how did you not see that coming straight at you
I don't take much to blow up a Union starship, but they keep building more of them.
The heavy cruisers must have one chair while the rest of the fleet got two.
"We got the guy! Lets get out of here!" YEAH FUCK ALL THOSE CRIPPLED SHIPS WE JUST LOST!!
You do realize the krill can't really DO shit with EXPLORER class ships plus they were SAVING THE PRESIDENT WHICH THEU AREN'T GONNA TAKE EVEN MORE RISK JUST TO SAVE A FRACTION OF THERE ENITIER FLEET SCATTERED ACROSS UNION TERRITORY
Far more standardised ships than anything in trek, not to mention the numbers available.
This actually sells a larger organisation n ways trek never could with its colonies of ~20 people in an agri town or it’s high tech visits to banquet halls with tens of people, tens I say.
Not surprising that Copy & Paste with pure CGI is more scalable than filming real people and real ship models, with painstaking 1980s analogue compositing.
incredible bad take, especially after all the sht Picard got for doing the same cgi Copy-paste fleet.
At Max Speed... I can totally tell this guy wrote this and fan fiction for star trek and just replaced all the copyrights.
So does no one have shields except Orville? Also does anyone's ship fire in any other direction but straight ahead?
And this is how you know there were no Canadian captains on any of the ships...we would have just started firing indiscriminately at the planet itself until they surrendered...
" Emergency Landing Plan -- B."
To those complaining about the loss of life to rescue 4 people remember one of those if the PRESIDENT of the union of course they are going to go all out no matter the cost to rescue him. IRL the military would do the same thing.
The shuttle should've landed on the first viable Union ship, but it passed all the ships to get to the Orville. Kelly could've stayed in command until the fleet got to a safe distance.
Thanks for the clip.
the sensible thing to do would have been to have the Orville retreat with some escort ships and the rest to tactically retreat...
@@dooshyd jumping out with the quantum drive was the tactical retreat, if your quantum drive was offline you weren't leaving that system alive anyway.
You can see by the comments who watched the show and who don't. Imagine not knowing the importance of the PRESIDENT of the union.
So how many people died to save seth and gang. Also these ships move so easily despite being so massive
"Seth and gang" included the President of the Planetary Union. That's who the rescue was focused on - him and his delegation.
I'll Quote Mark Jones in this these comments:
"you HAVE to respond to such actions or your own people lose faith that you can protect them and the enemy (the krill) become even bolder and believe they can commit more crimes without consequence."
You make two types of movies: ones in which everything should really have sense and ones in which nothing is really expected to have sense. Now, lets guess where Orville belongs? ;-P. We have 2022 but they still consider space battles as "piu-piu-piu" knife fights in taverns.
@@failsafe123123 The 0 mass movement of these ships seem seriously off. Even starwsrs put effort into mass
@@griznatle That is true.
Cool. Haven't watched a lot of it, bu this part looks cool.
When you get overexcited with copy and paste
This show was better than star trek discovery could ever be.
I have only seen this clip but have the following questions. If planetary defenses came online, how did the shuttle make it off planet? Wouldn't it have been shot out of the air before breaking atmosphere? Also, I think Adm. Ozawa ordered the retreat because they were losing the fight and wanted to preserve the fleet. Otherwise she might have ordered the Orville to retreat to ensure the delegation escape alive and keep the fleet there to continue the battle. Eventually, either destroying the Krill fleet or push them out of system before laying siege to the planet. While this may just be because of budgetary concerns for the show, but the UEF really needs some ships purpose built for warfighting.
I agree with you , from what I have seen in the show the unions ships are suppose to be exploring ships, but somehow they can go to war with them, with children and non combat people in them
@@tommale7631 They may be ships geared towards exploration, but that does not mean they should not be able to defend themselves especially when out of range of help. Can you imagine if the union actually had full on warships considering what the exploration ships were able to put up in this situation?
you are assuming that there were static planetary defenses, and that they weren't engaged in firing at the fleet battle in orbit. a shuttle is a low priority target unless they were notified who was onboard, then it became a high priority target.
If that was a "even" battle... with a massive retreat in a batle like that... is bound to los ships in that momment plus left damaged ships behind.... a lot of KIA and MIA there.
You can waltz up to a major interstellar super power's home planet with a humongous fleet, all without being challenged or seeing a single space ship? And the very second after sending your ultimatum the defending fleet is up in your face?
Breaking Krill News: The Union invaded, but they had no chance against our great fleet!
I miss this show.
people seem to forget this show is a comedy.
cool fight but how many people were they trying to save vs how many did they just get killed.. also how did everyone just break contact so easily. i saw half a dozen ships get their engines wrecked but when it was time to go they were all suddenly fine? if even one of those ships couldn't run, you now have even more people trapped. at what point do you say, well there's nothing we can do. if they risk a whole fleet for like 5 people they cant very well just leave a full capital ship behind. so now they have to commit to the battle regardless.
Well one of those five people was president of the Union so that justifies the effort. Good point on potential Union prisoners. That would be a nice follow-up for future seasons.
Only some people's lives matter .. The people / crews they lost .. or those they put at risk .. were all viewed as 'expendable' .. it doesn't matter how bad the ratio is .. 100:1 , 1000:1 , lost to recover ratio.
Also in addition to their own 'expendable people' .. those 5 people are also worth ... The billions of citizens of the planet are now 100% rationalized to legitimately see them as evil attacking aliens .. they just brought a hostile alien space fleet and attacked the planet .. thankfully the brave planetary defense forces were able to repel the evil attacking alien fleet this time , but they will be back to again try and force the planet to submit (enslave) to their alien authority , or kill those who oppose them.
@@ianpgeorge the krill already saw the union as evil. Their religion believes that only the Krill have souls, everyone else is at best an animal and it is the Krills divine right to take whatever they want from other races. And the Krill are a very religious race. That is why the union didn't want a war against the Krill, they knew that any conflict would instantly become a 'holy crusade'.
@@Rembanspellsong So in this attack the Union justified and reinforced the Krill anti-union view as not only a religiously correct one , but also as completely rational and logical one supported by evidence.
@@ianpgeorge more like the Krill now get to go 'how dare these lesser beings take back what we took from them! they must be exterminated!'
To anyone building starships in the future...add drones ....
Mmmmm woooow it Star Wars no it , Star Trek no , It Oville wooow .
Do the large capital Union ships do anything other than explode?
OMG - chat, it's a tv show...
sounds like star wars music bru
This reminds me of a cou try song that says "you gotta whoop a man's ass sometimes".
People told me this was a great series.... this battle was stupid and made no sense. They recovered 6 people but lost countless ships in the fight and left the scene before the fleet did not knowing if everyone got out okay and left behind countless damaged or disabled ships and their crews. Brilliant writing.
One of those six was their head of state. Od course this is going to be the response.
They had great battleplan: "lets gather some ships, warp to contested space and see what happens". I believe when battle is started with such an ambitious agenda the very fact that SOME of them have actually survived is really a success. Of course they will never learn, so if we get another 20 battles in the series, they will all look like this one.
The mf president was there, ain't no way they're not going to send the whole God damn fleet there.
@@failsafe123123 Were the battles in Battlestar Galactica 2003 any different?
@@dalethelander3781 Not really.
i just notice somehting are those ships a copy from one of the stargate seasons ? The Religous group that forced planets to convert or die
How many disabled ships with crew did they leave behind for a small shuttle of like 8 people?
BOSS CHICKS ARE NOT ADDRESSED AS SIR.
Space....The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Orville. Its continuing mission: To continue the sci-fi adventures inspired by Gene Roddenberry's visions. To seek first contacts with strange new aliens and civilizations. To boldly go where no 'Nu Trek' has gone before!
"And to make no logical sense while its doing it".. I mean.. c'mon. The space battle looks like its from Star Wars ROTS, the 'drift' that shuttle did makes literally no sense. Its like someone went "How can we make sci-fi make even less sense". Compared to BSG, Star Wars and Star Trek this has always just felt like a tacky series to me. Never mind the fact that you see like 5 ships of theirs get blown up in about 30 seconds of the start of the fight. How have they survived this long? How are the ships damaged meant to retreat? What about if the Krill use this chance to just take more prisoners. This has more holes than swiss cheese...
Looks like we found nu-trek's fan ⬆️
The union fleet jumping very return of the jedi!
A large fleet arrive at the Krill home world that can be considered an act of war
That was the point yes
So can abducting a head of government.
Orville is a great show but I kinda wish they had more ship classes
Or at least the ship classes being more distinct
Limited CGI budget, what can you do?
@@Mgl1206a lot, actually…
What about all the people on the stricken ships they left behind? Cowards....
Imagine if ships could shoot backwards
Hello? Did I miss something? I mean, don't we currently have a Kaylon problem to take care of?
SOOOO several hundred if not thousands of dead on both sides... dozens of ships destroyed... to rescue 6 people? Who DAFUQ came up with this story? And on a lesser note, HTF did I get here?
Uh 6 people consist of admiral, president, important senator, Ship navigator, a decorated captain on the verge of being executed in enemy capital. Krill wil have slap in the face by losing a chance to kill HVT while on their own turf
What about the survivors of the disabled ships?
All the ship's were ABLE to leave ????
Fantastic Show
Halsey and Ozawa? It sounds like The Orville is using WWII naval commander names.
Greatest SciFi television series of all Time
A spaceship crew comprised of hot chicks?!
No wonder it’s called science fiction
my main gripe is theres hardly any lore on the specifications on ships and weapons... just generric blue lasers vs green or red lasers... cant see any missiles or torpedoes or any other variation of weaponry....
So they have technology with sophisticated computational powers to allow them to traverse the universe, but when the battle breaks out they aim (and miss) with their weapons????
What ires me more is the ships are not in any formation and packed together like sardine. Even with fewer ships that are well space out can better show the immense space battle.
Holy crap. How many lives and ships did the Union throw away to rescue a handful of people?
Dude, the "handful of people" was the president of the whole damn union.
So they lost thousands of people to save what ? A dozen one ?
"The needs of the few..."
Nah, just kidding. They have "main cast" plot armor. Of course the entire fleet will risk its neck to save a couple of them!
yes it doesn't make much sense does it? On the other hand on the enemy planet members of the galactic council along with the the PRESIDENT were captive and ready to be executed.
I have seen Wars on Earth for much lesser reasons.
One of those people was the president of the Planetary Union.
I suspect most states would expend at least some effort to retrieve their kidnapped head of state.
I think it is more about that they don’t let enemies do whatever they want
Its a war of attrition.
90% casualty rate: VICTORY!
I confused this with Star Trek, lol. Is this in the Star Trek universe?
No,no it's not.
Physics be strange in this universe,. A starship can weave around like a fighter in atmosphere?