So, in a way, a plant seed is a reflection of this theory, meaning, the seed contains all the information needed to make a flower. We don't see the seed but do see the flower above the surface. Once the flower appears, we know the seed has been destroyed. Haha. The Hologram Theory is very cool to think about!
So, could it be that by visualizing with our minds something that we desire we are somehow using up the information that is out there, and therefore the desire must be now materialized because the information has been dragged out of the place where it was before and into our reality?
They always talk about objects that fall "into" a black hole, but Relativity (as I understood it) says that we observers who stay outside the black hole will never see any object fall "into" it, because time (for the falling object) will slow down more and more as it gets closer to the event horizon (reaching, at the limit, stillness), and the object itself will be infinitely squeezed against the horizon without reaching it ever. So, for us OUTSIDE the black hole, nothing ever falls INTO it.
1 million percent. I can't believe I was sleeping on that information until now but I'm glad I'm not the only person that's aware, because it's definitely feeling like I am right now. So I'm trying to learn as much as I can to understand the information that we've been given because clearly no one's going to explain it or hand it to us
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.... ...There is another theory, which states that this has already happened" The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy
+Chiranjeev Saini in addition to what you said, the principle also means that information is time dependent. In other words, information of a close system is close dependent. I'm unsure, but I believe the statement/principle above violates conservation of information.
+KlunkerRider Well nowadays we have so much information at the tips of our fingers but not everybody seems to be interested in becoming more aware, but rather we take make things for granted. To the that effect, I believe we have other pressing problems than the universe disappearing, like uneducated young generations that waste their life in front of a TV.
EDUARDO12348 thanks... it's seem like humans are drawn to things that decreases the average IQ of the generation. We are drawn to stupid things. We think they are "fun." Many of today's kids spend time time watching Kim Kardashian and other non beneficial tv shows that kills. Whilst they could have been doing more productive things to grow their talents. I fear for the future of humanity. We are devolving
Soon as you stop using infinity and zero as a crutch the sooner you realize the information isn't lost. The math it's just too complex for us right now. We are taking numbers at the edges of reality.
If all information is preserved on the event horizon, what happens when all of the black hole’s mass eventually evaporates away from Hawkins radiation and the whole thing disappears? Doesn’t that still result in a loss of information?
That's a good point. I'm no expert and I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that that information is released back into the universe when the black hole evaporates.
Hawking radiation alone isn't what causes the loss-- it's notion that Hawking radiation was "stealing" energy from within the event horizon that caused the problem. What the hologram principle says is that it's not stealing energy from within the black hole, but rather from a 2d hologram from _just_ outside of the horizon. Since any process that happens _outside_ of the horizon is reversible, information is therefore preserved.
David Boehm in his landmark book "the holographic universe" postulated and made a great case for this. Of course he never received the credit he deserved by the mainstream. Indian mystics and ascetics also postulated and stated the same thousands of years ago based on meditative empirical observations. A great resource is Capra's excellent book "The Dao of Physics"
Maybe you should ask your parents that you are a hologram or not. And if they say , "Yes, you are hologram" then ask them they adopted you from which projector 😂
We only see it as information because we are human and our senses give us a distorted picture if the universe, but in reality the universe simply sees it as a arrangement of atoms.
So if they were to prove that you can monitor what is going on in a seemingly infinite area by only having to monitor a very finite area... does this kind of lean toward the ability for something to be able to be omnipresent?
it is interesting to imagine life, reality like this, like a hologram, like a matrix. Just like information is stored to create computer, vídeo games, that create the sense of depthness, of mechanics, of light, the universe itself may be like this too. An infinite amount ou information stored somewhere forming what we perceive as time and space, creating the illusion of depth, time, etc. This is a very interesting concept, it even supports the time travel theory, because, once the information of the universe is stored somewhere, it can be recreated, if they come back to be interpreted, in the state they were before. If this is true, then future can also be created, developing the way information is stored and is affected, the upcoming information must also be somewhere stored, only "waiting" to be interpreted! the way we perceive things and the reality may be a illusion, just as the concept of space and time. All this information can be stored somewhere, in an extradimensional field. What am i saying? I don't know, just playing with my thoughts!
If you're looking for a truly astonishing artistic expression of "The Holographic Principle" I can't recommend Epica's album of the same name. It plays like a rock opera, they're among the very best musicians alive.
The escape velocity of a black hole at its event horizon is E and can never be more or less than E. The escape velocity of a body is V = root(GM/R), so E=GM/R and squaring both sides gives E^2 =GM/R, therefore RE^2= GM, therefore R = GM/E^2 & M = R E^2/G which is a linear relationship. My calculus is insufficient even for this calculation, but I guess that this implies that mass varies with the square of the radius of the event horizon, as does the surface area but not the volume of the sphere. I am not sure why the hologram is required to be "distant!" It is stranger that the Mach principle is about the "The distant stars!" when Mach thought that the stuff of the university is sensation which can't be all that distant. Einstein developed relativity from the sensationalism of Mach.
Am I missing something here? Not being able to access information on something which has fallen into a black hole is not the same as saying it no longer exists.
True, but we've observed Black Holes and done enough math with them to figure out that from our current model that we still don't know where the information goes, and it looks like that it would be destroyed. What could be much more plausible is that we just don't have an accurate enough model, and scientists welcome that.
what do you mean by the term "information". If it is a Shannon information, it involves probabilities, then where is the probability defined? I feel it would be better if the concrete definition of information is provided, before we start talking about destroying information etc.
Maybe a shadow? "this nether place is only its shadow stretching out. A shadow hath no life of its own; its existence is only a fantasy, and nothing more; it is but images reflected in water, and seeming as pictures to the eye. - Abdu’l-Baha
If we're living in a holographic program, who is the Programmer? "All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -- Max Planck
its true. anyone who has a decent understanding of math and physics will no doubt wonder how can all these complex wonderful descriptions of the universe come out of randomness? There is no way that there is no intelligent mind behind everything's design
I have a question, if the information cannot be created or destroyed, how did it get created in the big bang? If information can be created in big bang, why can't I be destroyed in a black hole? Will appreciate an answer.
When a teapot disappears into a black hole it swishes around our ears and the teapot is transformed into zeros and ones, while xylophone music is playing. Very informative, I would never have known.
so when you say we are in a black hole, do you mean our galaxy or our universe? can the black hole we are in be seen by us, as in the black hole in the center of our galaxy? is each black hole its own galaxy/universe? how are we able to survive in the event horizon of a black hole?
I think Prof Leonard Susskind's videosdescribes the holographic principle best. A 3d objects entropy is described by its surface area (2d), not its volume (3d)
The holographic principle grew out one of the biggest scientific problems of the twentieth century: the fact that the two fundamental theories of physics, Einstein's theory of gravity (general relativity) and quantum mechanics, do not get along with each other. ~ Maldacena's model is just that, a model. We do not yet know if the universe we live in is a hologram, and we still don't have a consistent quantum description of gravity that applies to our world. But what if it turns out that the holographic principle does apply to the world we live in? Will this mean that we, along with spacetime, are just an illusion? "Yes, you could say [we are] an illusion, or an emergent phenomenon," said Maldacena. 😳
Is the 'information' that describes an object finite? When we look closely at objects we see that they are patterned activity in consciousness, they don't have their own independent existence nor any fixed quantitative dimensions.
So does that mean we are a computer program in codes but in 3d we are in holographic state which means there is a system that stores this information and blackholes are a recycle bin.. they evaporate so after evaporating the holographic system never comes back as whole or does it?
Perhaphs I'm misunderstanding but isn't it like entrophy where matter is simply turned into some form that can't be reverted unless u can somehow revert entrophy?
So we could be a projection of the information on the event horizon of a black hole , but which one ? The one in the centre of our galaxy ( milkyway ) , any other ?
► *So we could be a projection of the information on the event horizon of a black hole , but which one ? The one in the centre of our galaxy?* Good question! In this context, the entire universe is one big black hole. The others are contained inside it (giving the universe a topological genus much > 1).
The hole is not empty space! It is densely packed matter, and the hole refers to the characteristic that light cannot escape this gravitational field. I believe scientists have taken this hole concept literally. I really wish they would quit describing it as a hole because it is closer to the opposite of a hole. Perhaps the black hole could pull the matter of an object inside. However, once it reached a certain point the gravitational forces would come to an equilibrium somewhere at the center, however, I believe the ginormous force would just stretch the object over the entire surface, like is said here. Scientists are assuming the information on the outside of the blackhole is a projection of what is inside the black hole, but perhaps what they see on the outside is what is the object that never goes into the black hole?
When a star destroys a, let's say screwdriver, where does it preserve the information on how its particles were arranged before it got destroyed? If the star doesn't do it then why should a black hole?
the way the star was arranged gets lost in the black hole, thats how the information was lost. I saw another video that said that black holes make everything the same (sorry im 4 years late)
@@IzukuMidoriya-ly8hh I honestly believe we're being mislead on purpose. Those mainstream scientists are just as corrupted as your next politician. The good ones get silenced and canceled all the time. There's little science happening these days and a ton of misinformation and disinformation to implement evil agendas. My comment was made 4 years ago, unfortunately things are much worse now.
@@Grejegando they’re all just theories, no one knows what happens to objects that get absorbed by black holes. Stephen hawking has a theory about hawking radiation that seems plausible
Rather than a projection, it would seem that if a object enters into a black hole it is not destroyed but rather is spit out on the other side to reform itself. When we see in a telescope the beginnings of a star or a galaxy, perhaps that beginning is as a result of going through a black hole. It may be that stars and galaxies are shallowed up by different size black holes. Birthing stations or the foundation of infinity.
No, it's flat alright.. like a whirlpool, or like a holographic film.. Now, a 4D black hole would have 3D event horizon alright, always one less dimension for the event horizon..
@@archanapathak4413 You could have a 4D black hole in a parallel "dimension". There's a popular theory that our entire 3D universe might be the event horizon of a 4D star that collapsed to form a 4D black hole.
@@PatrickRyan147 Patrick Ryan Okay but I watched the Kurzgezagt Black holes part 2 video in which they said that the information 'painted' on the inside walls of the event horizon experiences normal 3D but a person from outside see them as flat 2D. And we perceive 3D rit...So this means the universe should be in the form of 2D on the event horizon..?
Can the hawking equation be proved? can someone fly next to a black hole event horizon and scoop up the data? This is where science is becoming close to religion - believe it or be excommunicated Can empty space be curved? or any shape at all?
The limit of the human brain is to interpret all input as electrical signals which we know as thought, sight, sound, smell, touch and taste. It is all electrical impulse and reality could range from a two dimensional world that we interpret in our minds to be up to three dimensional, or it could be a many multi dimensional world that we filter down to three dimensional.
joekenorer Yes, but our brains also translate those electric impulses into language. So the hologram is linguistic representation of these electrical impulses. The hologram is a reflection of the world in your mind.
How about looking at it the other way around for a moment...aren't we already familiar with this: You're asking where does the information go, but I ask where does the information come from? To undesrtand my thinking, picture the expanding universe and the now obsolete cathode ray tube. Information starts it's journey as an electron beam fired onto a screen, all the information that makes up the picture is contained in one single dot that is distributed across the entire screen by san coils and timebases which display the original data. Imagine living in a crt. Could there be an opposite to a black hole that transmits data that is received by black holes and are we simply the information on it's journey?
I know ZERO about particle physic or the science of what they talk about in this video. However, one of the scientist stated that the information disappear but the energy is left. Isn't energy information as well? To my understanding from high school science classes, I know matter and energy are the same. I just want to know if they mean by the information disappearing include the energy that made up the object as well, that the energy that the object, particles, etc. turned into.
Well, if you burn a piece of paper, the energy stays (as fire + ashes etc...), but you still have the information about it. You can measure the heat, the height of the flame, the weight of the ashes, the agencement of all its particles, their spin, their energy level, etc... You still have information. Toss some piece of paper in the black hole. You don't have the information anymore. You just know you added some mass to the black hole, but you can't measure anything about your piece of paper. No size, no length, no weight, no atomic mass, nothing... All of the information resides in the black hole => You've lost the information, even though the energy remained (in the black hole, that gained mass).
What can be presupposed is the inside of a black hole is where the anti-matter of particles lies compressed into a infinite density so as all matter can exist (like you and me) outside of it and never meet, and so annihilate each other.
How big can be a black hold? How big can be an event horizon? A black hole can only be as strong as the star that created it. Therefore the gravity of a black hole is the same as the star that created, it the only difference is there is an event horizon. The event horizon must be very small compared to the original star. And therefore how much mass can a black hole take in?
The theory is quite similar with a concept introduced by a Muslim prophet 1500 years ago. Muslims believe there's a distant 'surface' called Lawh Al Mahfuz where all the information of the past, present and future is written.
He says the destruction of information is counter-intuitive... not my intuition though... if I burn a book, its contents have been destroyed, right? Or if I erase the contents of my computer's RAM, the information in it has been destroyed, right? So how should the destruction of information be counter-intuitive? I think the opposite, preservation of information, is counter-intuitive...
By information they mean the atoms that makeup matter. Matter cannot be destroyed nor created (Conservation of mass) is a fundamental theory in science.
I am very skeptical than the conservation of information is destined to be an idea for the ages, and when the fever breaks, all these enormous castles of weird mathematics built on that principle will be the epicycles of twentieth century science.
Then how can we question the source? unless we are the source of the idea... It's as if after painting a painting, there is an expectation that the painting will/can paint the painter back. We are too limited to understand the unlimited, all we can do is understand(appreciate) this principle instead of making simple stuffs seem hard for ordinary people to understand.
► *We are too limited to understand the unlimited* No, you're just too STUPID to understand it. *all we can do is make simple stuffs seem hard for ordinary people to understand.* If you're too stupid to understand it, don't blame those who do.
I asked chatgpt if my theory of black holes was correct. Then i was referred to this principle. I first thought of this idea when playing around with an accretion disk simulation. The black hole is probably bothing but an optical illusion caused by the bending of spacetime.
Why does it sound so familiar. How come the ancient Indian scriptures have recorded this in Sanskrit ... something like "Mayaa maatram idam sarvam" ... Everything is an illusion... raises more questions than answers!!!
I don't know why there is an assumption that therefore it's a hologram. Isn't it much easier and more reasonable to believe that the perception of a 3D reality is just the way our brains have evolved to perceive a 2D information reality as opposed to that 2D information projecting on a mass-scale across the entire universe.
I like to think about it another way: Our brains evolved to perceive 2D information when combined with time (space between those 2D projections), which is basically what a holographic projection is.
It's not about that really. What it's really saying is that on the quantum level all the information required to build a 3d environment is defined by the area of a plank space, not it's volume. This was postulated because of what happen to the size of the event horizon when you add one bit of information to it. The Black Hole war by Lenny Susskind or his lecture on the holographic principle explains it in detail.
► *on the quantum level all the information required to build a 3d environment is defined by the area of a plank space, not it's volume.* Aaaaand it's another home run for GlassTopRX7!
mahaamaya sanaatani, shakti roopa gunamayi - A mantra for the Goddess. it means - the greatest illusion that is the most ancient, in the form of formless energy - refers to one of the many aspects of the Adi Parashakti ( Ancient Supreme Energy ) of Hinduism.
In other words the real world in the scope of reality is the time before birth and after death which applies to the universe itself. The act of observation is an illusion.
Whats being said is that "information" (about the arrangement and positions of our familiar 3D matter), can be stored on a flat surface, (2D). Remember, our brains sit in silent darkness, apart from some electrical impules being fed to it from our optic-nerves, auditory-nerves, sensory-nerves, etc. So our perception of reality is only (and ONLY!) our brains interpretation of some voltage implulses, we have nothing more to go on. (Do you see red like I see red? No, is the answer.) So what if our perceptions of a huge 3D universe, are in reality, just information being interperated by us from what is in reality, a flat sheet in a 2D universe? Thats what these guys are saying, and cant disprove!
+dratsab1980 That is what i always questioned my self...do we see the same? We might be calling those objects with the same name, but do we see them the same? Small example: Even if u write something, like for example letter A, i might receive as your letter E, witch i call letter A.
+andsalomoni Information on 1D cannot exist, two degrees of freedom - are necessary (0 or 1). "On early computers using magnetic tape" which had a width (magnetic domains have respectively two directions 0 or 1).
On one hand, these string theorists are talking about 11 dimensions, and on another, they're telling us that it's possible that we're 3-d projections of 2-dimensional information...make up your mind, guys!!
Vinay Seth science doesn't have to make sense. look up particle- wave duality and it'll blow your mind. an electron could be represented as a particle and also as a wave.
So this universe is an illusion? Does that mean that ancient Indian sages were correct about the Brahmaand (Universe) being nothing but Maya (Illusion)???
A good place to start might be with a neutron star. When the iron core of a dying star collapses under its own gravity, its electrons fuse with protons to form neutrons, the forces that hold atoms together fall apart, and all you have left is an extremely dense ball of neutrons. Now, if I were to show you an extremely dense ball of neutrons, could you tell me what it used to be? Black holes take it even farther. The neutrons break, presumably the quarks break--everything is crushed down into a singularity. Not only are we left with a monotone singularity, but gravity is so intense that we cannot even look at it anymore. We can never take a black hole and tell you what it contains. We can tell you how much mass the black hole has, and thus how much energy it is. But we lost all of the diversity of that mass. A ship, a planet, a star--they all got crushed down into the same material. Whatever that planet might have been, it's gone now. It's mass is still there, but the planet? It's gone. It's never coming back. You can't even watch it to see what happens once it passes the event horizon.
Thank you. So the information in a sense isnt lost we just cant gather the information from the energy? but, for eg, an omni-intelligent would still be able to perceive the information from the energy? (sorry if i sound stupid. Just an ordinary dude interested in extra ordinary shit)
objects falling into black holes are heated to millions of degrees - much of the mass is converted to radiation. Not sure how much of the mass actually enters the event horizon.
There are a lot of maybe's in this short video. Maybe this is all nonsense. For starters, we have no idea what an event horizon is and the idea that all the things that were falling inside a black hole were somehow captured in a preserved image at the event horizon itself is not based on any physical facts.
To me this is "evidence", in a way, of the philosophical/spiritual concept of nonduality. As the Heart Sutra says "form is empty. emptiness is form" and this is comparable to the idea that our 3D reality exists as a projection of information encoded onto a distant 2D surface. You are the universe perceiving itself - the observer and the observed cannot be separated, they are one and the same. that is why you must do whatever makes you happy in life, be you, who is a projection of encoded information far away. you control that information through your thoughts, speech and actions in this world!
He added up the volume of a cone of a black hole, but it turned out to add up to only a 2d version of itself and concluded that we may be in a projection of something else.
I don't know about the legitimacy of this theory itself, but I do know that it is not a logical conclusion to say that we don't actually exist. Not that they were saying that but it merits pointing out. Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am.
if we are in a black hole two dimensinal. how can it be that we know the past. as if we fell into a black hole as it would of had to happen sometime. then how can we have a future wouldnt we just stay the same never age or die. if we are just a projection of light.
question, if the information is preserved at the event horizon, can it be retrieved? as far as i understand, once an object get to the event horizon, it can't be back, it must be able to move at the speed more than c (which is impossible) to escape. so, doesn't it mean that, even in this scenario, the information is still lost from "our universe" (outside of the black hole). anyone care to explain? thanks in advance, and sorry for bad english
Information doesn't go anywhere, because it doesn't exist as such. So basically information can just "vanish", because it didn't exist in the first place. Only arrangements exist. If arrangement changes, then the information of the old arrangement doesn't go anywhere, the arrangement only changes and that's it. When stuff goes into black hole, the stuff is there as somekind of soup adding up gravity. Why the old arrangement of stuff would have to be recorded into somewhere?
***** No. Arrangement itself is arrangement. You put Legos into order like a model in your brain is arranged to. But that model is arrangement of brain cells etc. storing models in a medium. Arrangements can be copied, but that doesn't mean information is moving between the arrangements. You have mediating arrangements of eg. photons, and you have processes of parts moving and doing copying work. But those copying parts like hand moving consist of molecules arranged into a hand, muscles consist of molecules, and so on. It is all about arrangements, parts, mediators, mediums, and processes.
***** Being elite doesn't mean anything if you are wrong. Surely you might not be totally wrong, but you are missing a conception, because you have read about some thing too much, and that missing idea makes the theories not complete or off. You need to empty your thoughts to learn more, saying goes. Information simply is nothing by definition. I mean, stuff exists. But stuff is stuff. Information... well, there is stuff. See? There is no information anywhere: You only get photons into your eyes in certain arrangement, then your nerves mediate a pattern of an apple into your brain cells, and with the help of previous patterns you produce sound waves with your mouth. There is apple, photons, nerves, cells, muscles, air, and waves in air. These are stuff. Not information.
***** No. There needs to be something in order for it to convey anything. And that something is not what it conveys, but it is it's itself. Which is stuff. So, there is something, which is stuff, and that conveys information. Information is conveyd exactly in the order of the arrangement of the stuff. But information doesn't exist, only arrangements exist. It is not so that there is information, which is stuff, which then conveys itself as information while being stuff. Particle can be excitation of field, but that field is field, and excitation is excitation. Not information. We only copy the arrangement of the field and call that copied result as information. Some people also call directly the arrangement of field as information, but they are wrong. Sure the arrangement of field can be copied, but the field is field. And the particle is excitation of the field, not information. The excitation of the field is excitation of the field. See? You call something with a different name! I mean, field is field, not something else like information. And, this is supported by the fact, that information is used to describe all kinds of knowledge, copied or direct arrangements. But that is only calling, only refering. You can call fields or excitations information as much as you like, but that doesn't turn fields or excitations into information. About the definition "what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things": Yeah. Read again, there it is: "... by a particular arrangement or sequence of things"! Still, actual information doesn't exist, because it is only an arrangement, that exists. Sure it is in a certain arrangement, but so what? It has to be in certain arrangement, but that doesn't mean anything else than it being in a certain arrangement. You can't drink information. You only drink the arrangement, because that is what exists and conveys. What happens in a conveying? Arrangements get mediated onwards. The base matter might change from braincells to paper, but it is still only paper with ink on it.
***** This one is proven by being obvious. I mean, I am not trying to refute all of their work and studies. All I am saying is that apples are apples, which is a fact. Furthermore, like I described, it is obvious, that something needs to exist for it to be able to convey anything. And if it conveys information, then the conveyor must be the other thing, which is stuff. I use only pure logic here, and that part, which is also the only part here, is right. Which means it is correct. And I am not a total layman either, even though I am not a physicist. I work in the field of information technology =)
So, in a way, a plant seed is a reflection of this theory, meaning, the seed contains all the information needed to make a flower. We don't see the seed but do see the flower above the surface. Once the flower appears, we know the seed has been destroyed. Haha. The Hologram Theory is very cool to think about!
I like this analogy !
So, could it be that by visualizing with our minds something that we desire we are somehow using up the information that is out there, and therefore the desire must be now materialized because the information has been dragged out of the place where it was before and into our reality?
@@raularaujostrw Probably, not mate.
@@raularaujostrw Only if you take action. Thought alone is worthless.
So we live in a simulation?
They always talk about objects that fall "into" a black hole, but Relativity (as I understood it) says that we observers who stay outside the black hole will never see any object fall "into" it, because time (for the falling object) will slow down more and more as it gets closer to the event horizon (reaching, at the limit, stillness), and the object itself will be infinitely squeezed against the horizon without reaching it ever. So, for us OUTSIDE the black hole, nothing ever falls INTO it.
Anyone else here after the UFO hearing?
me lol
me 2
No. I'm here because now they're saying gravity isn't real....😂
1 million percent. I can't believe I was sleeping on that information until now but I'm glad I'm not the only person that's aware, because it's definitely feeling like I am right now. So I'm trying to learn as much as I can to understand the information that we've been given because clearly no one's going to explain it or hand it to us
I refuse to believe that Christina Hendricks is really flat.
I dream of being in a Hologram with her....
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable....
...There is another theory, which states that this has already happened"
The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy
Oh which would mean that the universe is dependent upon knowledge of individuals.
+Chiranjeev Saini in addition to what you said, the principle also means that information is time dependent. In other words, information of a close system is close dependent. I'm unsure, but I believe the statement/principle above violates conservation of information.
+KlunkerRider Well nowadays we have so much information at the tips of our fingers but not everybody seems to be interested in becoming more aware, but rather we take make things for granted. To the that effect, I believe we have other pressing problems than the universe disappearing, like uneducated young generations that waste their life in front of a TV.
EDUARDO12348 thanks... it's seem like humans are drawn to things that decreases the average IQ of the generation. We are drawn to stupid things. We think they are "fun." Many of today's kids spend time time watching Kim Kardashian and other non beneficial tv shows that kills. Whilst they could have been doing more productive things to grow their talents. I fear for the future of humanity. We are devolving
Guys, it's a quote from The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy
Soon as you stop using infinity and zero as a crutch the sooner you realize the information isn't lost. The math it's just too complex for us right now. We are taking numbers at the edges of reality.
If all information is preserved on the event horizon, what happens when all of the black hole’s mass eventually evaporates away from Hawkins radiation and the whole thing disappears? Doesn’t that still result in a loss of information?
That's a good point. I'm no expert and I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that that information is released back into the universe when the black hole evaporates.
Thats the information paradox
The information is stored in the 2d space
No information radiates away as Hawking radiation basically
Hawking radiation alone isn't what causes the loss-- it's notion that Hawking radiation was "stealing" energy from within the event horizon that caused the problem. What the hologram principle says is that it's not stealing energy from within the black hole, but rather from a 2d hologram from _just_ outside of the horizon. Since any process that happens _outside_ of the horizon is reversible, information is therefore preserved.
It's all just one giant hologram - located on the back of a giant tortoise!
Tortoises all the way down?
Maybe even inside the butt black whole of the tortoise.
A tortiose with an H on its head like in Red Dwarf
Balanced on the back of four elephants, on a turtle
@@JJSloan From A Brief History of Time?
And everyone thought this was complicated when all you needed was a simple 3 minute explanation
What if the source of the hologram is a black hole - where everything in the universe began with the big bang?
David Boehm in his landmark book "the holographic universe" postulated and made a great case for this. Of course he never received the credit he deserved by the mainstream. Indian mystics and ascetics also postulated and stated the same thousands of years ago based on meditative empirical observations. A great resource is Capra's excellent book "The Dao of Physics"
I think, therefor I am a Hologram.
Too much
You are a hologram indeed
Maybe you should ask your parents that you are a hologram or not. And if they say , "Yes, you are hologram" then ask them they adopted you from which projector 😂
We only see it as information because we are human and our senses give us a distorted picture if the universe, but in reality the universe simply sees it as a arrangement of atoms.
So if they were to prove that you can monitor what is going on in a seemingly infinite area by only having to monitor a very finite area... does this kind of lean toward the ability for something to be able to be omnipresent?
YUP
it is interesting to imagine life, reality like this, like a hologram, like a matrix. Just like information is stored to create computer, vídeo games, that create the sense of depthness, of mechanics, of light, the universe itself may be like this too. An infinite amount ou information stored somewhere forming what we perceive as time and space, creating the illusion of depth, time, etc. This is a very interesting concept, it even supports the time travel theory, because, once the information of the universe is stored somewhere, it can be recreated, if they come back to be interpreted, in the state they were before. If this is true, then future can also be created, developing the way information is stored and is affected, the upcoming information must also be somewhere stored, only "waiting" to be interpreted! the way we perceive things and the reality may be a illusion, just as the concept of space and time. All this information can be stored somewhere, in an extradimensional field. What am i saying? I don't know, just playing with my thoughts!
If you're looking for a truly astonishing artistic expression of "The Holographic Principle" I can't recommend Epica's album of the same name. It plays like a rock opera, they're among the very best musicians alive.
Being high asf watching this smoking hologram blunt
Hell yeah
Nice!!
Now watch PBS' explaination 👌
The escape velocity of a black hole at its event horizon is E and can never be more or less than E. The escape velocity of a body is V = root(GM/R), so E=GM/R and squaring both sides gives E^2 =GM/R, therefore RE^2= GM, therefore R = GM/E^2 & M = R E^2/G which is a linear relationship. My calculus is insufficient even for this calculation, but I guess that this implies that mass varies with the square of the radius of the event horizon, as does the surface area but not the volume of the sphere. I am not sure why the hologram is required to be "distant!" It is stranger that the Mach principle is about the "The distant stars!" when Mach thought that the stuff of the university is sensation which can't be all that distant. Einstein developed relativity from the sensationalism of Mach.
tbh in terms of perspective you only view two dimensions at once but because of the passage of time we piece together the third dimension.
dissection of momentum in imagery natural ; utilizing bonnat temp as gradience shifts in mere or then sew mirror seconds by default lense gliding
Am I missing something here? Not being able to access information on something which has fallen into a black hole is not the same as saying it no longer exists.
True, but we've observed Black Holes and done enough math with them to figure out that from our current model that we still don't know where the information goes, and it looks like that it would be destroyed. What could be much more plausible is that we just don't have an accurate enough model, and scientists welcome that.
what do you mean by the term "information". If it is a Shannon information, it involves probabilities, then where is the probability defined? I feel it would be better if the concrete definition of information is provided, before we start talking about destroying information etc.
Are we holograms with mass? Gravity etc?
So our 3D universe would be a hologram coded in a 2D surface that bounds it... in a 3D space again? So what is the utility of this hypothesis?
...we could be in a computational universe, like a computer program, as suggested in the film "The Matrix".
No, not in a 3d space- at least not necessarily
Maybe a shadow? "this nether place is only its shadow stretching out. A shadow hath no life of its own; its existence is only a fantasy, and nothing more; it is but images reflected in water, and seeming as pictures to the eye. - Abdu’l-Baha
_"I think, therefore I hologr-am"_
If we're living in a holographic program, who is the Programmer? "All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -- Max Planck
its true. anyone who has a decent understanding of math and physics will no doubt wonder how can all these complex wonderful descriptions of the universe come out of randomness? There is no way that there is no intelligent mind behind everything's design
I have a decent understanding of math and physics and I doubt the existence of an intelligent mind behind everything's design
Then who designed the programmer? And that one before that? And that one before that? You didn't ask for a solution.
I have a question, if the information cannot be created or destroyed, how did it get created in the big bang? If information can be created in big bang, why can't I be destroyed in a black hole? Will appreciate an answer.
Anyone here because of Epica?
Me!
yes omg :'(
same x)
Guess this is what the new album is all about :)
yes haha
When a teapot disappears into a black hole it swishes around our ears and the teapot is transformed into zeros and ones, while xylophone music is playing. Very informative, I would never have known.
so when you say we are in a black hole, do you mean our galaxy or our universe? can the black hole we are in be seen by us, as in the black hole in the center of our galaxy? is each black hole its own galaxy/universe? how are we able to survive in the event horizon of a black hole?
It is like deleted information on a hard drive, it is gone but yet it is still there until it is replaced.
I think Prof Leonard Susskind's videosdescribes the holographic principle best. A 3d objects entropy is described by its surface area (2d), not its volume (3d)
And how is justified the projection of what occurs in black holes to what is occured in the cosmos as a whole?
The fact that I cant find anyone who can explain this idea in a simple manner tells me no one has a scooby what this is about.
The universe is a hologram and quantum particles conjoin together to form a geometrical shape that I essentially space-time.
The idea that information is preserved on some non-existent surface is "not even wrong". The French call such ideas "élucubrations".
The holographic principle grew out one of the biggest scientific problems of the twentieth century:
the fact that the two fundamental theories of physics,
Einstein's theory of gravity (general relativity)
and quantum mechanics,
do not get along with each other.
~
Maldacena's model is just that, a model.
We do not yet know if the universe we live in is a hologram, and we still don't have a consistent quantum description of gravity that applies to our world.
But what if it turns out that the holographic principle does apply to the world we live in?
Will this mean that we, along with spacetime, are just an illusion?
"Yes, you could say [we are] an illusion, or an emergent phenomenon," said Maldacena.
😳
Is the 'information' that describes an object finite? When we look closely at objects we see that they are patterned activity in consciousness, they don't have their own independent existence nor any fixed quantitative dimensions.
So does that mean we are a computer program in codes but in 3d we are in holographic state which means there is a system that stores this information and blackholes are a recycle bin.. they evaporate so after evaporating the holographic system never comes back as whole or does it?
Just a theory, least popular one but somehow most convincing one
Perhaphs I'm misunderstanding but isn't it like entrophy where matter is simply turned into some form that can't be reverted unless u can somehow revert entrophy?
So we could be a projection of the information on the event horizon of a black hole , but which one ?
The one in the centre of our galaxy ( milkyway ) , any other ?
► *So we could be a projection of the information on the event horizon of a black hole , but which one ? The one in the centre of our galaxy?*
Good question! In this context, the entire universe is one big black hole. The others are contained inside it (giving the universe a topological genus much > 1).
The hole is not empty space! It is densely packed matter, and the hole refers to the characteristic that light cannot escape this gravitational field. I believe scientists have taken this hole concept literally. I really wish they would quit describing it as a hole because it is closer to the opposite of a hole. Perhaps the black hole could pull the matter of an object inside. However, once it reached a certain point the gravitational forces would come to an equilibrium somewhere at the center, however, I believe the ginormous force would just stretch the object over the entire surface, like is said here. Scientists are assuming the information on the outside of the blackhole is a projection of what is inside the black hole, but perhaps what they see on the outside is what is the object that never goes into the black hole?
When a star destroys a, let's say screwdriver, where does it preserve the information on how its particles were arranged before it got destroyed? If the star doesn't do it then why should a black hole?
the way the star was arranged gets lost in the black hole, thats how the information was lost. I saw another video that said that black holes make everything the same (sorry im 4 years late)
@@IzukuMidoriya-ly8hh I honestly believe we're being mislead on purpose. Those mainstream scientists are just as corrupted as your next politician. The good ones get silenced and canceled all the time. There's little science happening these days and a ton of misinformation and disinformation to implement evil agendas. My comment was made 4 years ago, unfortunately things are much worse now.
@@Grejegando they’re all just theories, no one knows what happens to objects that get absorbed by black holes. Stephen hawking has a theory about hawking radiation that seems plausible
Rather than a projection, it would seem that if a object enters into a black hole it is not destroyed but rather is spit out on the other side to reform itself. When we see in a telescope the beginnings of a star or a galaxy, perhaps that beginning is as a result of going through a black hole. It may be that stars and galaxies are shallowed up by different size black holes. Birthing stations or the foundation of infinity.
At 2:25 why Mr. Brian Greene is referring the spherical wall of the event horizon as a 2-D figure?it's 3-D right?
No, it's flat alright.. like a whirlpool, or like a holographic film.. Now, a 4D black hole would have 3D event horizon alright, always one less dimension for the event horizon..
@@PatrickRyan147 Okay thanks u r right. Btw what do u exactly mean by a 4D black hole?are u just giving an example or there is something like this
@@archanapathak4413 You could have a 4D black hole in a parallel "dimension".
There's a popular theory that our entire 3D universe might be the event horizon of a 4D star that collapsed to form a 4D black hole.
@@PatrickRyan147 Patrick Ryan Okay but I watched the Kurzgezagt Black holes part 2 video in which they said that the information 'painted' on the inside walls of the event horizon experiences normal 3D but a person from outside see them as flat 2D.
And we perceive 3D rit...So this means the universe should be in the form of 2D on the event horizon..?
Can the hawking equation be proved? can someone fly next to a black hole event horizon and scoop up the data?
This is where science is becoming close to religion - believe it or be excommunicated
Can empty space be curved? or any shape at all?
this supports even further my theory that our universe was created from the consequence of a time traveler
The limit of the human brain is to interpret all input as electrical signals which we know as thought, sight, sound, smell, touch and taste. It is all electrical impulse and reality could range from a two dimensional world that we interpret in our minds to be up to three dimensional, or it could be a many multi dimensional world that we filter down to three dimensional.
joekenorer Yes, but our brains also translate those electric impulses into language. So the hologram is linguistic representation of these electrical impulses. The hologram is a reflection of the world in your mind.
How about looking at it the other way around for a moment...aren't we already familiar with this:
You're asking where does the information go, but I ask where does the information come from? To undesrtand my thinking, picture the expanding universe and the now obsolete cathode ray tube.
Information starts it's journey as an electron beam fired onto a screen, all the information that makes up the picture is contained in one single dot that is distributed across the entire screen by san coils and timebases which display the original data. Imagine living in a crt.
Could there be an opposite to a black hole that transmits data that is received by black holes and are we simply the information on it's journey?
the video is missing Leonard Susskind talking about it.
I know ZERO about particle physic or the science of what they talk about in this video. However, one of the scientist stated that the information disappear but the energy is left. Isn't energy information as well? To my understanding from high school science classes, I know matter and energy are the same. I just want to know if they mean by the information disappearing include the energy that made up the object as well, that the energy that the object, particles, etc. turned into.
Well, if you burn a piece of paper, the energy stays (as fire + ashes etc...), but you still have the information about it. You can measure the heat, the height of the flame, the weight of the ashes, the agencement of all its particles, their spin, their energy level, etc... You still have information.
Toss some piece of paper in the black hole. You don't have the information anymore. You just know you added some mass to the black hole, but you can't measure anything about your piece of paper. No size, no length, no weight, no atomic mass, nothing... All of the information resides in the black hole => You've lost the information, even though the energy remained (in the black hole, that gained mass).
Not being able to access the information does not mean it no longer exists. Am I missing something here?
just because the information is inaccessible doesn't mean it's destroyed
A->♾️ => S->♾️ V=const? 0:15
in the black hole a given object disintegrates back into the primordial energy of the vacuum which holds all information of the universe
What can be presupposed is the inside of a black hole is where the anti-matter of particles lies compressed into a infinite density so as all matter can exist (like you and me) outside of it and never meet, and so annihilate each other.
That's true one particle goes in and the other manages to escape which could explain how we are even here
saw the title and came here but before watching came to the comments because I knew I found Epicans here :D ;)
haha! same here! Mark seems to be well read on these concepts.
How big can be a black hold? How big can be an event horizon? A black hole can only be as strong as the star that created it. Therefore the gravity of a black hole is the same as the star that created, it the only difference is there is an event horizon. The event horizon must be very small compared to the original star. And therefore how much mass can a black hole take in?
The theory is quite similar with a concept introduced by a Muslim prophet 1500 years ago. Muslims believe there's a distant 'surface' called Lawh Al Mahfuz where all the information of the past, present and future is written.
He says the destruction of information is counter-intuitive... not my intuition though... if I burn a book, its contents have been destroyed, right? Or if I erase the contents of my computer's RAM, the information in it has been destroyed, right? So how should the destruction of information be counter-intuitive? I think the opposite, preservation of information, is counter-intuitive...
By information they mean the atoms that makeup matter. Matter cannot be destroyed nor created (Conservation of mass) is a fundamental theory in science.
Does it/can it explain the accelerating expansion of the universe?
I am very skeptical than the conservation of information is destined to be an idea for the ages, and when the fever breaks, all these enormous castles of weird mathematics built on that principle will be the epicycles of twentieth century science.
Then how can we question the source? unless we are the source of the idea... It's as if after painting a painting, there is an expectation that the painting will/can paint the painter back. We are too limited to understand the unlimited, all we can do is understand(appreciate) this principle instead of making simple stuffs seem hard for ordinary people to understand.
► *We are too limited to understand the unlimited*
No, you're just too STUPID to understand it.
*all we can do is make simple stuffs seem hard for ordinary people to understand.*
If you're too stupid to understand it, don't blame those who do.
I asked chatgpt if my theory of black holes was correct. Then i was referred to this principle. I first thought of this idea when playing around with an accretion disk simulation.
The black hole is probably bothing but an optical illusion caused by the bending of spacetime.
Why does it sound so familiar. How come the ancient Indian scriptures have recorded this in Sanskrit ... something like "Mayaa maatram idam sarvam" ... Everything is an illusion... raises more questions than answers!!!
So when the hologram crosses the threshold of the surface of the projector, it freezes. What happened to spaghettification and all that?
We're all stuck in the MATRIX lol.
We sure are..
@@Breakthroughthematrix I could use an siberian girl then hook me up
I don't know why there is an assumption that therefore it's a hologram. Isn't it much easier and more reasonable to believe that the perception of a 3D reality is just the way our brains have evolved to perceive a 2D information reality as opposed to that 2D information projecting on a mass-scale across the entire universe.
I like to think about it another way: Our brains evolved to perceive 2D information when combined with time (space between those 2D projections), which is basically what a holographic projection is.
It's not about that really. What it's really saying is that on the quantum level all the information required to build a 3d environment is defined by the area of a plank space, not it's volume. This was postulated because of what happen to the size of the event horizon when you add one bit of information to it.
The Black Hole war by Lenny Susskind or his lecture on the holographic principle explains it in detail.
► *on the quantum level all the information required to build a 3d environment is defined by the area of a plank space, not it's volume.*
Aaaaand it's another home run for GlassTopRX7!
Great video thank you.
mahaamaya sanaatani, shakti roopa gunamayi - A mantra for the Goddess.
it means - the greatest illusion that is the most ancient, in the form of formless energy - refers to one of the many aspects of the Adi Parashakti ( Ancient Supreme Energy ) of Hinduism.
In other words the real world in the scope of reality is the time before birth and after death which applies to the universe itself. The act of observation is an illusion.
Whats being said is that "information" (about the arrangement and positions of our familiar 3D matter), can be stored on a flat surface, (2D).
Remember, our brains sit in silent darkness, apart from some electrical impules being fed to it from our optic-nerves, auditory-nerves, sensory-nerves, etc.
So our perception of reality is only (and ONLY!) our brains interpretation of some voltage implulses, we have nothing more to go on. (Do you see red like I see red? No, is the answer.)
So what if our perceptions of a huge 3D universe, are in reality, just information being interperated by us from what is in reality, a flat sheet in a 2D universe? Thats what these guys are saying, and cant disprove!
dratsab1980 yo bruh is too early for this... you gunna like, blow my brain up maaaan
dratsab1980 Brilliant expounding on this subject, my friend. Bravo.
+dratsab1980 That is what i always questioned my self...do we see the same? We might be calling those objects with the same name, but do we see them the same?
Small example: Even if u write something, like for example letter A, i might receive as your letter E, witch i call letter A.
+dratsab1980 If the point is "information", you can store it on a 1D line too (as they did on early computers using magnetic tape).
+andsalomoni
Information on 1D cannot exist, two degrees of freedom - are necessary (0 or 1). "On early computers using magnetic tape" which had a width (magnetic domains have respectively two directions 0 or 1).
If you take a hero dose of LSD this makes more sense.
Or take 3 inhales of some dmt 💨😛🛸🤣
On one hand, these string theorists are talking about 11 dimensions, and on another, they're telling us that it's possible that we're 3-d projections of 2-dimensional information...make up your mind, guys!!
Vinay Seth science doesn't have to make sense. look up particle- wave duality and it'll blow your mind. an electron could be represented as a particle and also as a wave.
So this universe is an illusion? Does that mean that ancient Indian sages were correct about the Brahmaand (Universe) being nothing but Maya (Illusion)???
We are! I believe this.
Possibilities are endless. But will we ever know the truth? Will our brain be capable enough to make sense of it?
"the energy remains but the information disappears" can some one exlplain for me pleaaaase. Whats the difference?
A good place to start might be with a neutron star. When the iron core of a dying star collapses under its own gravity, its electrons fuse with protons to form neutrons, the forces that hold atoms together fall apart, and all you have left is an extremely dense ball of neutrons.
Now, if I were to show you an extremely dense ball of neutrons, could you tell me what it used to be?
Black holes take it even farther. The neutrons break, presumably the quarks break--everything is crushed down into a singularity. Not only are we left with a monotone singularity, but gravity is so intense that we cannot even look at it anymore.
We can never take a black hole and tell you what it contains. We can tell you how much mass the black hole has, and thus how much energy it is. But we lost all of the diversity of that mass. A ship, a planet, a star--they all got crushed down into the same material. Whatever that planet might have been, it's gone now. It's mass is still there, but the planet? It's gone. It's never coming back. You can't even watch it to see what happens once it passes the event horizon.
Thank you. So the information in a sense isnt lost we just cant gather the information from the energy?
but, for eg, an omni-intelligent would still be able to perceive the information from the energy? (sorry if i sound stupid. Just an ordinary dude interested in extra ordinary shit)
objects falling into black holes are heated to millions of degrees - much of the mass is converted to radiation. Not sure how much of the mass actually enters the event horizon.
Conclusions based on false premises are .... false.
How can a black hole attract things that are only illusions? Is the black hole also a hologram?
There are a lot of maybe's in this short video. Maybe this is all nonsense. For starters, we have no idea what an event horizon is and the idea that all the things that were falling inside a black hole were somehow captured in a preserved image at the event horizon itself is not based on any physical facts.
To me this is "evidence", in a way, of the philosophical/spiritual concept of nonduality. As the Heart Sutra says "form is empty. emptiness is form" and this is comparable to the idea that our 3D reality exists as a projection of information encoded onto a distant 2D surface. You are the universe perceiving itself - the observer and the observed cannot be separated, they are one and the same. that is why you must do whatever makes you happy in life, be you, who is a projection of encoded information far away. you control that information through your thoughts, speech and actions in this world!
You people getting it right... 👍👍
Please.......give me the entire description of Stephen Hawking's equation...
He added up the volume of a cone of a black hole, but it turned out to add up to only a 2d version of itself and concluded that we may be in a projection of something else.
Just. Buy the book.
Wink
Speechless.
I don't know about the legitimacy of this theory itself, but I do know that it is not a logical conclusion to say that we don't actually exist. Not that they were saying that but it merits pointing out. Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am.
thats not what they are saying, I think they mean that our 3d world its just a projection of a 2d world or something like that
But Right...
You definitely exist huh? Keep telling yourself that...
how can we deal things then
Like drugs
if we are in a black hole two dimensinal. how can it be that we know the past. as if we fell into a black hole as it would of had to happen sometime. then how can we have a future wouldnt we just stay the same never age or die. if we are just a projection of light.
question,
if the information is preserved at the event horizon, can it be retrieved?
as far as i understand, once an object get to the event horizon, it can't be back, it must be able to move at the speed more than c (which is impossible) to escape. so, doesn't it mean that, even in this scenario, the information is still lost from "our universe" (outside of the black hole). anyone care to explain?
thanks in advance, and sorry for bad english
The ultimate form in the universe is order not chaos
after 2:38 do u..........ur self understanding ..............what ur saying....?
singularity means what is left.....atom molecule what....?
So if the universe is supposedly flat, why do we perceive three dimension?
ask that about a tall building in a movie. The movie is only a flat piece of film. Same answer.
Excellent... thanks 🙏.
0:42===where it gets crushed=========so what is getting crushed...??
I'm afraid of this theory, but fi we are in virtual reality, where we Go when we are dead?
to the next level :)
Game over! Please insert another token.
I always though I was too good looking to be true.
Information doesn't go anywhere, because it doesn't exist as such. So basically information can just "vanish", because it didn't exist in the first place. Only arrangements exist. If arrangement changes, then the information of the old arrangement doesn't go anywhere, the arrangement only changes and that's it. When stuff goes into black hole, the stuff is there as somekind of soup adding up gravity. Why the old arrangement of stuff would have to be recorded into somewhere?
***** No. Arrangement itself is arrangement. You put Legos into order like a model in your brain is arranged to. But that model is arrangement of brain cells etc. storing models in a medium. Arrangements can be copied, but that doesn't mean information is moving between the arrangements. You have mediating arrangements of eg. photons, and you have processes of parts moving and doing copying work. But those copying parts like hand moving consist of molecules arranged into a hand, muscles consist of molecules, and so on. It is all about arrangements, parts, mediators, mediums, and processes.
*****
Being elite doesn't mean anything if you are wrong. Surely you might not be totally wrong, but you are missing a conception, because you have read about some thing too much, and that missing idea makes the theories not complete or off. You need to empty your thoughts to learn more, saying goes. Information simply is nothing by definition. I mean, stuff exists. But stuff is stuff. Information... well, there is stuff. See? There is no information anywhere: You only get photons into your eyes in certain arrangement, then your nerves mediate a pattern of an apple into your brain cells, and with the help of previous patterns you produce sound waves with your mouth. There is apple, photons, nerves, cells, muscles, air, and waves in air. These are stuff. Not information.
*****
No. There needs to be something in order for it to convey anything. And that something is not what it conveys, but it is it's itself. Which is stuff. So, there is something, which is stuff, and that conveys information. Information is conveyd exactly in the order of the arrangement of the stuff. But information doesn't exist, only arrangements exist. It is not so that there is information, which is stuff, which then conveys itself as information while being stuff.
Particle can be excitation of field, but that field is field, and excitation is excitation. Not information. We only copy the arrangement of the field and call that copied result as information. Some people also call directly the arrangement of field as information, but they are wrong. Sure the arrangement of field can be copied, but the field is field. And the particle is excitation of the field, not information. The excitation of the field is excitation of the field. See? You call something with a different name! I mean, field is field, not something else like information.
And, this is supported by the fact, that information is used to describe all kinds of knowledge, copied or direct arrangements. But that is only calling, only refering. You can call fields or excitations information as much as you like, but that doesn't turn fields or excitations into information.
About the definition "what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things": Yeah. Read again, there it is: "... by a particular arrangement or sequence of things"! Still, actual information doesn't exist, because it is only an arrangement, that exists. Sure it is in a certain arrangement, but so what? It has to be in certain arrangement, but that doesn't mean anything else than it being in a certain arrangement. You can't drink information. You only drink the arrangement, because that is what exists and conveys.
What happens in a conveying? Arrangements get mediated onwards. The base matter might change from braincells to paper, but it is still only paper with ink on it.
*****
Be my guest. Ignorance is that way ->
***** This one is proven by being obvious. I mean, I am not trying to refute all of their work and studies. All I am saying is that apples are apples, which is a fact. Furthermore, like I described, it is obvious, that something needs to exist for it to be able to convey anything. And if it conveys information, then the conveyor must be the other thing, which is stuff. I use only pure logic here, and that part, which is also the only part here, is right. Which means it is correct. And I am not a total layman either, even though I am not a physicist. I work in the field of information technology =)
Is this why some people says that earth is flat ?
It could all be a dream! Whoooh Grooovy maaan! You all outta ideas now, son?
We're nothing more than a projection of what life was like a billion years ago.