Outdated or underrated? The Hurricane in WW2
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- Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2022
- The first RAF aircraft to fly over 300mph, the Hawker Hurricane became a legendary aircraft. Over half of every enemy aeroplane destroyed in the Battle of Britain was by a Hawker Hurricane, not a Spitfire. The Hurricane is known for being a reliable workhorse of the Battle of Britain, but also went on to serve in nearly every major theatre in the Second World War, and even as a bomber. In this video, Graham Rodgers gives us a tour of Sydney Camm's magnificent design, as well as into the cockpit of this veteran Battle of Britain aircraft at Duxford.
Book tickets to IWM Duxford now to catch the Hurricane spotlight exhibition, running 27 Dec - 19 Feb: www.iwm.org.uk/events/Hurrica...
Visit the Battle of Britain hangar at IWM Duxford: www.iwm.org.uk/visits/iwm-dux...
View and licence the archive film clips used in this video on IWM Film: film.iwmcollections.org.uk/my...
Battle of Britain - A Visual History: shop.iwm.org.uk/p/28186/Battl...
CREDITS
Photo of Hurricane production at Brooklands via www.brooklandsmuseum.com/
Photo of Beatrice Shilling via www.kenleyrevival.org/
Hurricane pilots knew that they had the advantage at low altitudes, where the Me109 became sluggish. My dad fought in WW2 and called that ,bringing them into the "Soup." The dense thick air at low altitudes, was called that in WW2, and the Hawker Hurricane was loved by pilots, because it had a few life saving tricks like that. My father volunteered for the Canadian Air Force in 1939, and came home in 1946, and survived those years as a Wing Commander.
Much respect to your Dad for his service. Peace to you from an ex British soldier (Not WW2 era though).
My dad, born in Toronto Ont. and a naturalized US citizen, flew B-17Gs for the USAAF from England during WWII, he had P-51s providing cover for him over the Axis counties, like Germany. They saved his life serval times to go and fight Japan with a B-29.
Impressive and interesting
@@michaelbeloff3505 Was there a Hurricane point in your comment. I missed it.
Bravo to your old man, however, the Hurri was at the end of it's development potential by Aug 1940. It was outdated, but had value in being numerous and effective radar/command and control via Keith Park.
My neighbour, now gone, was a Hurricane pilot defending the Firth of Forth bridge against regular German attacks. He defended the Hurricane against naive Spitfire fans by saying that his plane was a far better gun platform than its more famous sister. He was a giant of a man; how he squeezed into that cockpit is beyond me.
The Hurricane could also out-turn and out-dive other aircraft making it superior in a dogfight
@@oldspec3006 Good point, and as I've noted in the past straight line speed was less useful than manoeuvrability. Plus it was faster to rearm and easier to repair.
@@julianmhall my grandad was groundcrew in the DAF . They could use tents to repair any fabric covered parts . Some times to the annoyance to the flight offiers when part of thier mess tent was used!
@@edmundscycles1 *LOL* I'm reminded of the scene in the film The Great Escape when they used bed boards to shore up a tunnel and an officer crashed through his bed :) Also in real life in the first Black Buck mission when they were looking for a refuelling nozzle for a Vulcan. A ground crew sergeant recognised it as what they'd been using as an ashtray in the mess *LOL*
@@julianmhall they used the side of the tent facing away from the taxi/parking area . That way the flight officers couldn't see the hole. It was to fix the Squadron leaders hurricane that still used fabric wings as he refused to get the updated metal skin . He had an 88mm flack pass through the fabric wing and not explode. So the pilot officers saw a cartoon wing shape as they walked into the officers mess and sand drifts through out. Of course the mess staff were trying to hide grins and the Squadron leader was pissing himself laughing . He was a New Zealander know as mechanical whiskers as he curled them like a clock spring to fit inside the oxygen mask.
One of my favorite quotes about the Hurricane is from Ginger Lacey. He said he’d rather fly a Spitfire but fight in a Hurricane, because it was made of nonessential parts. He reasoned that over the course of his many missions every part of his Hurricanes had been shot off at one time or another, and it kept on flying, so no part was essential! That’s a tough plane.
Yes, there's nothing quite the sound of a sound of a RR Merlin powered aircraft, we've had the BofBMF over head many times, the last time was on August Bank Holiday Monday, my next door neighbour was wonder what I was climbing up outside to look at, it was the Avro Lancaster, I had tears in my eyes when I explained that it was something so beautiful, powerful but deadly too and how many young men lost their lives defending our freedom.
Lest We Forget♥.
To OP.
The Hurricane was *ideal* in the first years of the war for it could utilize Britain's vast amount of local repair shops and wood workshops. This meant that damaged Hurricanes could be repaired and had replaced parts made rather fast. Any weapon of war is only as effective as the time it's *fully operational* .
This is also one of the main reasons the number of reported shot down RAF planes by the Luftwaffe was erroneous since many damaged Hurricanes (and other types) actually landed their planes had them repaired and pressed back into action.
The more astute German Luftwaffe officers realized that the claimed reports were optimistic and that the goal to destroy the RAF in a few months was "unrealistic".
You sure that’s not one of Biggles’ fictional pals? Lol jk
My favourite comment about the Hurricane was that it wasn't an aircraft, it was a collection of spare parts flying in close formation.
As per my comment above, I've heard the same quote but attributed to Peter Townsend not Ginger Lacey.
When I was a kid you could get the Hurricane operating manual in the library...I re read that more than several times and thought I could fly it...many years later I became a private pilot and still wished I could fly one...some dreams never die lol
If you came into a lot of money, you could have one custom built. Someone has the blueprints.
I read that people in New Zealand are making copies of Great War planes. They were tempted to improve on things but if you change one factor, another might fail with the added stress. Since the originals worked, they stuck to the plans.
One of mine too. A glorious aircraft worthy of it.
Don't give up the dream. I believe you can make it happen and fly that plane just like you always wanted!
You can do the next best thing , go up in the not long converted only one two seater Hurricane , not cheap though !
Were those the Haynes Manuals? They're still available on Amazon.
He jumped out after being hit by 4 canons, jumped back in and shot down an enemy plane then awarded the Victoria cross. Wow, what a total legend! That's next level bravery and balls. To get the VC you have to have a 90% chance of dieing and change the outcome of battle. Nicholson thank you for your service
When I was about 13 (50 years ago), I did some study and wrote a class presentation about this plane. I remember reading that J B Nicholson said he oddly watched the skin on his thumb blister as he pressed the firing button. Because he was quite thin and short, he was able to tuck his feet up away from some of the flames. The ground observers watched the event occur, so were able to confirm what happened. Also one of the cannon shells went into the instrument panel and some glass cut his eye, which partly blinded him as well. Incredibly angry or brave or both, it was an amazing VC story! Another story (no VC though) a pilot had run out of bullets and did not want a bomber plane to get away, so he trusted the solid design of the Hurricane and rammed the tail of the bomber and bought it and himself down, though he did survive to tell of his desperation. Must get around to building the 24th scale model in my garage..........
@@David-yo5ws Thank you for this pal, amazing stories of utter heroism.
Hit by 4 Canons? I had no idea that clergy were so violent.
Dying, not dieing.
He was one, very determined Warrior.
Hurricanes shot down about 60% of BoB German losses. The leading killer squadron Polish 303, flew Hurricanes in the BoB and their kill ratio was 68% german fighters and 32% bombers. 303 loved the hurricane for its manoeuvrability and battle toughness. Like other leading front line squadrons, they transferred to Spitfires in 1941
303 Squadron is not the leading killer squadron. It claimed 126 kills post was investigation has found this to be more than twice the actual amount. No. 603 (AuxAF) Squadron RAF (57.8 verified kills), No. 609 (AuxAF) Squadron RAF (48 verified kills), and No. 41 Squadron RAF (45.33 verified kills), which all flew Supermarine Spitfires.303 Squadron is officially credited with 44 kills making it the top-scoring Hurricane squadron.
Educate yourself mate. I'm ashamed of being Polish when I see Polish noobs everywhere, pushing propaganda about our insignificant, inferior 'accomplishments'.
Really, it's better to be modest, than making a fool of yourself and whole nation!
This was wartime propaganda perpetuated by many books, magazines, documentaries and news media. The reality was looked into a few years ago by matching known verified Luftwaffe losses by time, date and location with squadrons involved and the claims matching destroyed verified Luftwaffe losses, rather than just the most claims ( which 303 claimed the most-being 126 in the period) showed instead that the top 4 units for verified losses matching claims were in this order: 603 Sqn, 609 sqn and then 41 sqn followed by 303 sqn. Number 303 did well however as they were only in combat from later in August to just before the end of the Battle of Britain near the end of October 1940 only whereas others they beat, like 501 and others had been in combat longer. They were in fact the top Hurricane unit of the Battle of Britain. Also, Frantisek, a Czech on 303 Polish Sqn strength claimed 17 in the period but was not the top ace of the Battle of Britain, this was Lock of 41 with 21 victories in the period, then McKellar with 19 and then Lacey with 18 followed by Frantisek with 17 claimed, often flying alone. He did well as outlined above in a short period of time. Lacey was the top RAF ace of 1940 with 23 and 2 shared by December 1940. Paul Davies.
@@markstratton1679 Please provide source. Per Imperial War Museum site:
"303 Squadron - the highest scoring unit in the Battle of Britain
In the following weeks the squadron achieved a truly astonishing score of 126 enemy planes, as well as 13 probables and 9 damaged, claiming the title of the best scoring unit of the Battle of Britain. One of their extraordinary feats was shooting down 14 enemy planes, plus four probables, in one sortie over London on 7 September - the first day of the Blitz - without a single loss on their side."
Royal Air Force Museum:
"No. 303 Squadron became the most successful Fighter Command unit in the Battle, shooting down 126 German machines in only 42 days. Czech Sergeant Josef Frantisek, also of ‘303’, was the top scoring pilot with 17 confirmed victories."
@@Montrala 126 kills is what the Polish squadron "claimed" the verified kills are far, far lower.
Here are some sources for you:
John Alcorn. Gives the lowest number I,'ve ever seen quoted, 44 confirmed kills, but he admits that after a thorough examination of RAF claims and Luftwaffe records, there are at least 30 German aircraft losses that can't be attributed to ANY squadron or pilot.
Battle of Britain Top Guns:
Alcorn,John
September 1996. Vol.24. No.9 Issue No.281.
pp.14-18.
Updated 2000.
John Alcorn wrote following about his sources:
Methodology.
Before discussing the findings, an explanation is in order on how they were reached. The main sources were: The Battle of Britain Then and Now Mk V, various authors; Battle Over Britain, Francis Mason; The Hardest Day, 19 August 1940, Alfred Price; The Narrow Margin, Derek Wood and Derek Dempster; Aces High, Christopher Shores and Clive Williams, and Angriff Westland, Dilip Sarkar.
Using research kindly supplied by John Freeman from Fighter Command records (file AIR16/960 in the Public Records Office), a day-by-day list of RAF squadron victory claims and losses was prepared for the 123-day period under review (July 1 to October 31 1940). A similar day-by-day listing gave the known Luftwaffe losses during the same period. By collating information regarding times, locations and targets, it was possible to link German losses and RAF claims.
The conclusions from the various source works were accepted at face value. Where sources gave conflicting information l used my judgement, usually deferring to the verdicts from John Foreman or the Then and Now publications. When multiple squadrons' claims exceeded Luftwaffe losses during an action, the victories were credited in proportion to the claims from each unit. In 30 cases it was not possible to credit German losses to individual RAF squadrons, these losses, 2,5 per cent of the total, were omitted from the analysis except where specifically mentioned.
The above data was assembled to produce Table 1. This shows victory claims and credits, accuracy of claims, RAF unit losses, victory/loss ratios and the number of days each squadron was in action. It is believed this is the first serious attempt to quantify the relative performance of Fighter Command units during the Battle. (p.14).
Whilst the information on the update is welcomed, you seem to be a bit confused about the sources used. l ceased my subscription to Aeroplane Monthly in 1997, hence never saw the update.
Jerzy Cynk, Polish author and historian and writer of "The Polish Air Force at War" credits 303 Squadron with 55-60 kills.
Jacek Kutzner (see below) comes to the number as 58.8.
Cynk, Jerzy B.: Polskie Sily Powietrzne 1939-1945, AJ-Press 2001, ISBN 83-7237-089-3
Król, Wacław: Zarys dzialań polskiego lotnictva w Wielkiej Brytanii 1940-1945, WKiL Warszawa 1990,ISBN 83-206-0852-x
HALLEY, James J. The Squadrons of the Royal Air Force & Commonwealth 1918-1988. Tonbridge, Kent, UK: Air Britain (Historians) Ltd., 1988. ISBN 0-85130-164-9.
JEFFORD, Wing Commander C.G., MBE, BA, RAF(Retd.). RAF Squadrons, a Comprehensive record of the Movement and Equipment of all RAF Squadrons and their Antecedents since 1912. Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK: Airlife Publishing, 1988 (second edition 2001). ISBN 1-85310-053-6.
SHORES C. - THOMAS C.: 2nd Tactical Air Force, volume 3, Classic Pub., Hersham 2006, ISBN 1-903223-60-1
You can also peruse the following:-
www.armedconflicts.com/No-303-Squadron-RAF-t21149
www.armedconflicts.com
www.airwargreatbritain.blogspot.com and a favourite of mine, www.asisbiz.com
I hope that's enough sources for you!
One of the most amazing things to me about WW2 is the incredible amount of stories you hear about guys who did things regularly, knowing full well they probably weren’t coming back. It’s almost a constant theme in just about any aspect of that war. In my mind, that’s why they deserve the “greatest generation” moniker.
Two of my uncles were stokers. So they shoveled coal during the depression and then on the same ships during wartime. They had charmed lives until February 23rd 1945 when my one uncle was killed on S.S Point Pleasant Park.
I totally get your point. They had a demanding, essential, but mundane job and they were in the part of the ship that you had very little chance of escaping from if you were hit.
The ironic thing for my uncle was that he was killed in a safe area on a safe run where there generally were no U- boats, and he had finished his shift. The torpedo nearly missed.
My grandad joined the navy in 1914 as a boy in the stoke hole , he came out of the navy in 1945 having had his share of narrow squeaks . I only caught him with his vest off once and it made me shudder . All he said " I was doing my duty , it was a job that needed doing " I always remove my hat at memorials and think of the ladies and gentlemen who got on with it .
@@stephenrice4554 Did you mean to type 1941 instead of 1914?
@@kellybreen5526 i cannot imagine life working as a stoker shoving coal in hot places deep within a ship. massive respect to your uncle and his colleagues🙏🏻
Nothing amazing about War....AT ALL, fool.
Gave a stellar performance in the Burma campaign. Landed in rice fields and other uneven fields. At times cargo was strapped on its wings or slung across the fuselage, like a horse. Have heard these accounts first hand from relatives who served in Burma. Very little is known is known about this theater of war. The Hurricane was one of the heroes of this campaign.
My late uncle was apprenticed at Hawker (later Hawker Siddeley then British Aerospace) and stayed all his working life. He became a pneumatic expert and was involved in the design of the P1127 (Harrier) and the beautiful and hugely advanced,but ultimately cancelled, TSR II. He was a “Hurricane man” and told me about the aeroplane when I was very young, so whenever my pals at school were swooning over the Spitfire (a truly fantastic and flexible design), I was at least able to get the Hurricane into the conversation! Thanks for the video👍
When I was young (a while ago) I built an Airfix model of the P1127. Wasn't sure if I imagined the name! Thanks for putting my mind at rest :)
Both were great planes.
My dad worked at Woodford for many years he started as an apprentice straight from school building Vulcans
Yes. Hurrican killed more krauts in Battle of Britain.
How did he get onto the TSR2 project? That was a BAC project. HS & BAC were rivals until they were glommed together to form BAe in 1977.
We should also remember the contribution of Tommy Sopwith, who pursuaded the Hawker board to commit to production well before any Air Ministry contract was offered. Without his foresight the RAF would not have been nearly so ready for the onslaught of 1940. I'd also add that the comments on the fuel tank location also applied to the Spitfire, which initially held all its 96 gallons of petrol in tanks directly in front of the pilot.
The hurricane was like the P40 it was valuable because that's what we had. Did we want something better than both of them, yup.
The Merlin was also the result of an individual keeping development going when the government would not pay. It took a £100K donation to win the 3rd Schneider Trophy. We owe a massive debt to both the Hurricane and the Merlin which stopped us being over run by Hitler in the early days of the war.
... persuaded
Quite right! Hurricanes were pouring off the production lines whilst Castle Bromwich was struggling to build its first Spitfire and manufacturing had to return to Supermarine for a while; but they could only produce small numbers.
I have heard that before..producing the plane early saved us all..for memory there was something like a hundred planes ready
Although designed and built only a couple of years apart the Hurricanes construction was from a different era, from that of the Spitfire. I worked on both aircraft during the 70's. At first I was thrilled to be working on Spitfires but after a short while I came to love the Hurricane for its mechanical beauty and construction. I was a rigger , the Hurricane was a riggers aeroplane.
In 1939 the Hurri was the best 1918 fighter in the world.
@@mirrorblue100 partly agree, as far as construction concerned, but with that Merlin and eight machine guns it was far better, to make the point both the Spitfire and Hurricane started the war with a fixed pitch two blade wooden propeller , that would not have looked out of place on a Sopwith camel, but were a lot faster , by 1940 they had three bladed variable pitch prop's that would left the 1939 version standing.
One of the Hurricane's many combat roles that you didn't mention was Tank Busting. They were fitted with two 40mm Vickers "S" guns and used in the North Africa and Burma campaigns.
Yes, they were nick named 'can or tin openers' and from what I understand the modifications were done in the field, the enemy tank crews feared them as a 40mm travelling at terminal velocity which was added to by the speed of the Hurricane would pernitrate any armour that anyone had then.
@@defender1006
The S guns were an official design. The wing used had different panels to the standard A and B wings. (8 x .303 Brownings and 12 x .303 Brownings, respectably)
The wing design for the S canons was known as the D wing, C denoting 4 x 20mm canons.
The Hurricane IID also retained 2 x .303. The pilot would "walk in" using the .303s and then switch to the 40mm canons.
The Hurricane MkIV had a "universal" wing that could carry bombs, rockets or the Vickers S gun.
HTH
@@pencilpauli9442 my grandad worked as ground crew on D and C hurries in North Africa as part of the DAF . He loved it . Hated when a spitfire or p40 would land at their base for repairs or refuel in an emergency as they were so much more difficult to do repairs on. They would do just enough to get them back to the pilots home base. He later went on to work in Pembroke Dock on Sunderlands and catalinas for RAF costal command .
@@pencilpauli9442 - I've read that the .303s were loaded with tracer rounds.
@@johnbacon2515
Do you mean loaded just with tracer rounds, John?
I hadn't really thought about it and assumed that there would have been the usual mix but it would make sense to have more tracers.
Read Roald Dahl's account of fighting in a Hurricane in the Battle of Athens. After the battle and when he'd landed, he suddenly realised he was drenched in sweat and shaking uncontrollably. Then he noticed that all the other pilots were too. The RAF had won. That's in his autobiography Btw. Good account of what it was like during the battle.
Going solo.
Going solo. Yes, i have read that. It is nice.
Well, they’d come out of it alive, and by surviving, it felt like they had won.
All the Pilots that came back: the battle of Athens was a massacre that claimed the life of most of the top-scoring British Aces at the time, including Pat Pattle. It resulted in essentially no gains for the RAF (yes, they destroyed more aircraft but when they have 10 times more they're not so much losing aircraft as spending them) and the extra aircraft and ace pilots would have been extremely useful for 33 and 80 Squadrons at Crete.
@@stevenagelutton4322 At that time in the War, the RAF couldn't really pick and choose which battles it fought. The Battle of Athens was one of these. But thanks for your smug, after-the-battle summation.
Love the Hurricane!! Beautiful aircraft!! It didn't get the credit it truly deserves in the Battle of Britain.
The Hurricane , the Victor of the Battle of Britain . By Leo McKinstry is a good book to get if your a Hurricane fan , really good read .
Totally agree. The Spitfire has always over shadowed it.
mostly cause the Spitfire was to last longer, But i know how useful they were. Like the P40 in the Western Desert alongside the Hurricane and Spitfire underrated
@@charlestaylor8566 I think I have read it. There was a Hurricane book I finished reading a while ago, it had R4118 & I think 'Pegs' on the front cover. Going on about the Hurricane throughout the war
...except by the pilots, the ones who's opinions count.
I was shocked to see the cover picture, that of 87 Squadron post BoB when it was a night fighter Squadron protecting Bristol. My grandpa was an LAC for them during 1940, with B Flight. The video of LK-Q was probably an aircraft on which he worked. I've never seen footage of 87 Squadron Hurricanes before, so thank you. You'll see the 20mm cannons, a few rounds of which we still have, date stamped 1940. Pa always said they were the first Squadron to trial cannon during the Battle of Britain. Excellent video and beautifully edited. From one very proud grandson.
Thank God for the RAF, and the Royal Navy. The world would be a very different place today if Britain had been defeated by the Nazis. From America, THANK YOU.
God Bless you Sir. Thankyou for the recognition. All the very best, from England.
Less circumsicion for sure
WHY DID THEY BOTHER LOOK AT UK NOW ASYLUM SEEKERS PARADISE
@@andrewrcmadwilkinson6999
But they are FREE.
Im sorry but uk and the empire was defeted. Suez made it clear. The last six years have made it even clearer.
The Hurricane might be overlooked but it is not forgotten.
The Hurricane's biggest problem is the sheer beauty of the Spitfire.
My wife (64) is not interested in aeroplanes or WWII, but every time she sees a picture of a Spitfire, she says something like:
It is a beauty and it is a shame that Mitchell didn't live to see it's accomplishments.
This is a battle that the Hurricane cannot win.
-
Good show
I wish you were here (in EU)
Regards from DJ
@@Jabber-ig3iw Spitfire better than a Hurricane not really, spitfires had faults too.
@@alistairscott137 Biggest fault on the Spit, was a weak undercarriage, that's why the Russians preferred the Hurricanes, that we sent them (700) in total! They could land on the rugged, rutted airstrips, whereas the Spits couldn't! later in the war, the Spitfires were altered,to enable deck landings on carriers,the undercarriage was totally rebuilt to accommodate this, and the Seafire was born!
I've always considered the Hurricane's looks beautiful, very elegant.
@@Jabber-ig3iw I think he means that it had more development potential, being a technical level above the Hurricane. But the more advanced a machine is - especially warplanes - the longer they take to sort out and acquire, the more effort they take to keep them going and fixed and the longer they need to serve to pay for the effort of creating them. late 20thC jets are the prime example; where a WW2 type might serve front-line for three years, a late Cold-War fighter design might have had to serve three *decades*.
I think it's fair to say that the two Merlin-powered BoB fighters marked a turning point in terms of tech vs masses. As it was, WW2 was still fought by massive air forces, but the size of AFs got smaller as the 1st & 2nd-gen jets took over. So I think the Spitfire was the future (apart from its prop), but the Hurricane was the high-water mark of the huge 'army of the air' concept.
Just my onion, of course.
@@Jabber-ig3iw Perhaps you should have used a capital H for the Hurricane as you did with the Spitfire.
One thing you forgot to mention: The construction of the Spitfire was much more complex, time consuming to build, and required more skilled labor. As a result the Hurricane cost less than half that of a Spitfire!
Yes. Hurricane was designed to be mass produced in a factory. Spitfire was in some senses hand made.
In 1939 Hawker's list price for a Hurricane was 4000 pounds while a Spirfires price was 12,600 pounds.
@@119beaker I've seen a number of different references which range from a 2:1 price difference up to a 3:1 price difference.
@@rockets4kids I think Spitfires became cheaper to build as they figured out easier ways to make the wing as the war progressed.
@@119beaker That is what I suspect as well.
As a Northern Irish man, I'm so proud of my country's history and the role we played in defending the UK
same here
Payed a huge huge roll in the defence of main land uk 🇬🇧
Yes, Sunderland flying boats built at Shorts and stationed in Ulster and Wales (Pembroke Dock) were an important element in the Battle of the Atlantic - one of the battles the UK simply could not afford lose - and the one that Churchill said really scared him. .
So you should be!
Many huge rolls of Irish linen were used to build the Hurricanes! lol (sorry couldn't resist)
Its incredibly underrated. It had to do most of the work over France when not many spits were available, then it killed the bombers when the spits took the burden of dogfights over so they could do their respective jobs and do them well. It was also a good tank killer in NA.
The Hurricane was a superior gun platform to the Spitfire, and they were primarily tasked with shooting down bombers, which they did very successfully during the Battle of Britain. This plane, along with the Bristol Beaufighter once that got the A.I. interception radar system, effectively blunted the German bomber force.
Oh yes and especially the rear gunner version, that was a sensation. GOD SAVE THE KING 👑
I looked into all combat victories, claims and verified losses of 1940 and far more Hurricane pilots not only were the top aces but also scored more Bf 109E and BF110 fighter kills than did Spitfire pilots, partly through their guns being less spread out, all closer inline with a target in front but also being a steadier gun platform. Allan Wright, a Spitfire ace of 1940 said he felt Hurricanes did better because they could be in a tight turn behind a 109 and still see the target in front when pulling lead for the correct deflection angle whereas to do the same in a Spitfire, the nose hid he 109 turning in front, he said. He related: You cannot very well hit what you cannot see, can you?" Hae put this down to two things, the sloping away nose of the Hurricane as seen from the cockpit compared to that of the Spitfire and the tighter turn and close grouped guns of the Hurricanes. The Spitfire outer guns in each wing being outside of a target close in front, the thin wing wobbled more sending bullets everywhere but straight on the outer guns and so only sometimes possibly 4 guns converged on a target turning rather than all 8 or 6 at least on a Hurricane, he reckoned.
In WW1 with biplanes and less efficient machine guns dogfights were pretty much standard. In WW2 dogfights undoubtedly occoured but most planes were "bounced" and shot down before the pilot ever saw the plane that had hit them. Even if the pilot and plane survived the attacking plane would dive away to escape. Hurricanes could out turn a ME109 and for that matter a Spitfire. German pilots discovered this fact and preferred to avoid engaging in dogfights with Hurricanes.
Absolutely astounding to think that the surface of the Hurricane was made from Irish cotton linen. Granted it would be easy to repair but I genuinely can’t even begin to imagine how cold it would have been for pilots especially in sub-zero conditions. A different generation and different time indeed! God bless all that fought and died in WW2.
7:11 "You could be quite ham-fisted putting a Hurricane down" My uncle put one down a little too hard and broke it. In his defence, he was a Wellington pilot flying the squadron's runabout and just got the landing speed wrong. Apparently Wellingtons and Hurricanes have a very different stall speed.
Good video , this warhorse deserves more recognition. The Hurricane actually did have a slight edge over the Spitfire in turn radius , esp at lower levels
"My Hurries!"
This was a quote from a mum in a documentary about the Battle of Britain (10 July 1940 - 31 October 1940). The following is the best of my recollections about the documentary. I do not remember the name of the documentary.
The quote was shared by the mum's child 50 or more years after the battle. It was a daylight raid, and the sound of hundreds of approaching enemy airplanes could be heard from outside the family home. Next, the mother gestured upward at a squadron of Hawker Hurricanes advancing toward the enemy head-on, and joyfully yelled "My Hurries!" (as if the squadron had come to the personal rescue of her family).
Every time I see an image of a Hawker Hurricane, I get a little emotional thinking about it.
My mother used to say that the unsynchronised engines of the German raiders sounded like "I'm coming for you, I'm coming for you".
Was lucky enough to grow up in Biggin Hill when I was a kid in the 70 's and 80's. (Biggin Hill airport was an RAF camp then). They had a real Spitfire and Hurricane standing outside the RAF chapel on the main road for years. Lucky enough to pass them most days and admire them. They took the originals planes away and replaced them with mock planes on stands.
Would love to know what happened to the originals. Hopefully they found a good home. Biggin Hill used to put on some of the best Airshows when I was a kid....happy days they were!
The sound of them still make back of me neck tingle :-)
being a Biggin hill resident for the whole of my life, I heard the originals were used for parts but don't quote me on that
I bet the very Hurricane you saw was converted to the very mock Hurricane you saw on a stand years later. Same for the Spit. I am just guessing in this entire comment.
@@ieatoutoften872 No they replaced with fibreglass replicas, as the originals were too valuable. I spent ages last night trying to find out what happened to them. The Hurricane P2921 that was outside the gate is one of only two left in the UK that is still airworthy and is currently kept in the Biggin Hill Heritage Hanger with other WW2 airworthy planes, so this one found a good home.
The hurricane pilot shot down 8 aircraft and it was the fastest in the squadron as pilot Pete Brothers had the rivets filed down, which gave him 5mph more speed. He also modified the external rear view mirror with a curved one he bought from Halfords.
The Spitfire MK1A-K9998 I've yet to track down, one site mentioned it had been moved to Ambala Air Force Station in India, but haven't confirmed that yet. Found some good accounts of pilot Geoffrey Wellum online.
Bit of useless info for you: www.bigginhill-history.co.uk/gateguards.htm
@@goodwood-rc4nx Cool, bet you played in few bomb holes as a kid. used to be big one at the end of the grove on the footpath up to Sutherland avenue. 😀
Last oct I went up in a Spitfire from Biggin Hill .One of the guys waiting to go up told me he had already done the Hurricane flight a year before .Considering its £3000 a 40 min flight , he has spent close to £6000 on both flights .
BUT I will never forget going up in that 1944 spit , and I had the controls for about 8 mins.Money well spent.
There is a guy near me who has a full size Spitfire replica in his front garden.
The Hurricane, Magnificent, Wonderful aircraft but so underrated.
Great video! The Hurricane was the unsung hero of the battle of Brittan! The simple construction was easer to repair than the all aluminum construction of the Spitfire.
I don't think it's unsung any more. Those who don't know about the Hurricane's contribution tend to be people who aren't that interested. Anybody who has an interest in WW2 history know what the Hurricane did.
Family connections to the Schneider Trophy winning Supermarine SB.6 have my heart set firmly in the Spitfire's seat, but the Hurricane not only deserves, but demands more credit for the role it played throughout the war in every theatre. I enjoy hopping into its virtual cockpit in IL-2 over Moscow and Cliffs of Dover on the regular and never have a bad time.
The Hurricane, the Warhawk, the Wildcat, and the Airacobra require a LOT more love than they get. Those are the big 4 workhorses that held the line and started pushing the Axis back.
I’ve always liked the hurricane more than the spitfire and my young mind’s opinion was justified with the Johnny red tales
Beautiful workhorse and so many variants
Stunning
I was an apprentice at Rolls Royce in the 1970s and remember stories about Miss Shilling and her carburetor design solution being spoken about by some of the older guys. I also used to hear all sorts of old stories about the manufacture of Merlin engines in the Nightingale works.
Thank you Graham. That was a brief but brilliant run through. The one thing you didn't touch on was that, at least during the BoB, Hurrucanes were far more numerous, as well as (so I understand) easier to make than Spitfires. There is no real doubt anymore that they saved us during the BoB. The Spitfire had the fame, but not the numbers or the kills.
He detailed the number of squadrons - 19 Spitfire to 29 Hurricane.
I loved the Hurricane display at Duxford and the behind the scenes Tour was brilliant and Liam did a great job stepping in at the last minute
Spitfires never had steel stressed skin. Dural was used.
One major advantage the Hurricane had over the Spitfire was the down-time needed for repairs after battle damage was considerably less for the Hurricane. The complex structure of the Spitfire was time-consuming to repair.
And the best thing is that we can still see, hear and experience these machines in their element.
My grandfather used to work at a repair station, he said exactly that , Hurricanes were so easy to patch up, unlike the spitfire
What a beautiful plane. This plane is the real hero of the Battle of Britain. If I had to choose between the Spitfire or the Hurricane, I would choose the Hurricane. And to be honest. Love the Spitfire.
Many thanks to the amazing teams at RAF Duxford. They work to preserve our shared flying heritage. If you’ve never visited, PLEASE make the trip - it’s a massive museum with a huge collection of aircraft. You’ll even get to see some of them flying.
My great grandfather trained as a cabinet maker and, during the war, moved over to making Hurricanes (after all, carpentry is carpentry) - one day the Luftwaffe bombed the factory, but he was more annoyed that they destroyed his car!
oops... I hope he sent the bill to Hermann Goering. 👍
Brilliant video, really well presented. Quite emotional actually as my father flew Hurricanes in Burma with 60 squadron, so it was good to see the cannons and drop fuel tanks in the video. That film clip - wasn't 60 squadron dropping the bombs, was it? I could have watched hours of stories about the Hurricane. Thank you so much for producing this.
The contribution of Hurricanes in Burma was unbeaten by any other force. Again, totally unknown in most circles.
There is a relevant piece in Peter Townsend book on the BoB "Duel of Eagles'. He refers to "Spitfire Snobbery". Shot down Luftwaffe fighter pilots would often claim that they had lost out to a Spitfire, when in fact they had been defeated by a Hurricane. He cites some senior German officers making such claims, when there were in fact no Spitfires in the theatre that they were speaking about. Ah well, I guess folk see what they expect to see.
A possibly amusing aside on the same lines. The Fiesler biplane torpedo bombers developed for the Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier (wonder where they got that idea) were sold off to German ally Romania. One of them shot down a P51 !
I hope the pilot survived OK, but I always wonder what the Mustang pilot claimed got him.
Fly for Your Life shows how a dedicated Spitfire lover came to also love the Hurricane for the qualities it possessed. RIP Robert Tuck, Douglas Bader, and all the rest no longer with us, especially those that died during the war.
I am not particularly a a follower of the royal but was sad when the queen partly because she was part of the wartime generation who are slowly leaving us.Do young people know what we owe to the pilots,maintenance people soldiers,sailors and airmen?I doubt it,but would love to wrong.
Outstanding book. Your words no less so. Well said.
Thank you for mentioning 'Miss Shilling's Orifice'! An incredible lady, and a Gold Star winner at Brooklands, no less...
Got to love the Hurricane. Those distinctive flat cut ended wing's a beautiful plane and a beautiful sound. Even better when flying with the spitfire.
The hurricane, and the mosquito, are the two most versatile and underrated aircraft of ww2!
I've always felt the Hurricane a very underrated aircraft in regards to how it contributed to the war. Much like its American counterparts the P-40 and the F4F Wildcat they were used throughout the war and were critical during the first half of it.
I once met a USAF general who flew his quota of missions over North Africa in a P-40 from Aug. 1942 to Sept. 1943. Shot down two Bf-109's, with two other probable kills. A tribute to his skill, and luck. The P-40 was supposed to be the U.S. Army fighter plane for the duration of the war, until Gen. Hap Arnold put his foot down and said "I want THAT plane." (The P-51 Mustang, originally a Lend Lease project.) The German pilots hated the P-51 for among other reasons, its silhouette in the heat of battle was hard to tell from a Bf-109. Friend or foe? Not often sure in such conditions.
Totally agree the aircraft available at the start of the war was critical. They held off the crème of the crop pilots. By the time the P-51 came along I read most of the allied pilots were poorly trained. But anyway they all helped defeat the axis of evil.
I was going to say much the same thing, lot of parallels between the Hurricane and the P-40 (and the F4F, I wasn't thinking of that one but it fits perfectly).
Honestly mediocre as fighters, not terrible but never quite the equal of their first line opposition. Both with historical baggage but... for the Hurricane "at least we're a monoplane" (exact same for F4F) for the P-40 "at least we're faster than the Curtiss Hawk" . And both available when they were desperately needed.
And not being the best aircraft makes the men who won a war in such machines shine the brighter.
many dacades ago, I spoke to someone who had worked in a factory that assembled the spitfire. They told me the bottle neck was that complex elliptical wing.
Often they had rows of fusalages fully ready waiting for the wings to be added. The wider track of the Hurricane undercarriage also meant there were fewer mishaps on takeoff & landing.
Thank you for such a informative video
Thank you.
Great video
Excellent video....very enjoyable to watch. My late Uncle spent many hours training in a Hurricane before moving on to the Hawker Typhoon with RAF 193. His one notable scary experience in a Hurricane was in Scotland. While he performed a high speed roll over the Wallace Monument, the fabric on his aircraft partially tore off and wrapped around the tail wing. He thought at first he was going to have to bail but as the aircraft slowed down he realized he could control his flight so was able to make an emergency landing back at his training base. Once he had completed 132 combat missions with RAF 193 he returned to Canada late 1944. He resumed his flying career with the RCAF training new pilots. However, his last logged flight in southern Alberta in 1945 was in an fully armed Hawker Hurricane. He was scrambled to chase down a Japanese balloon bomb along the eastern slopes of the Rocky Mountains.
Did he get that balloon?
@@neilparsons7250 He never saw it...figured it had drifted across the US border by the time he was in the area...or it dropped into the mountains somewhere.
As a kid during WW2 (I'm 87 ) we new the sound of most of the aircraft. Spitfires, Hurricanes, Wellies and Lancs and most of the German bombers which we only heard at night. They did very little daylight bombings. We had an expression still heard today "don't worry, it's one of ours"
Mother used to say that the German unsynchronised engines sounded like "We're coming for uou, we're coming for you.".
Thank you for your comment Mr. Davies!
Brilliant. Thank you.
Fantastic video, informative and gripping. Thank you.
Big thanks to IWM for keeping history alive.
Wish I could give this more than one like. Excellent video of am outstanding aircraft.Thank you 👍👍
Very well done, thank you for posting, hope to see more!
Well done for impressing the importance of the Hurricane, in service when it was needed, less manhours to build, easier to maintain.
My grandfather was in the RAF in WW2 and spent the last couple of years in the Burmese theatre of operations.
He once told me the only reason the Hurricane stayed in production until 1944 was because of lobbying by Far East command, who loved the aircraft for use in Burma. It was cheap, easy to maintain, reliable, tough and could operate from short, rough airfields hacked out of the jungle just behind the front.
It was also a very effective ground attack aircraft using cannon and rockets. In short, it was the ideal close support aircraft for front line troops in remote and difficult terrain....which is exactly what the Burmese theatre was.
It's air-air combat ability was not particularly important in this theatre late in the war due to the minimal presence of the Japanese air force.
Near the end of the war his unit replaced their Hurricanes with P-47 Thunderbolts which was, according to my grandfather, a very unpopular move. The Thunderbolt was everything the Hurricane wasn't. Expensive, difficult to maintain and needing very long, very well prepared airfields to operate. The logistics tail needed to keep the Thunderbolts operational was, apparently, enormous and far outweighed any marginal benefit in the close support capability of these aircraft.
The Thunderbolt was best suited to deep interdiction from large, well supplied airfields in the rear areas (using it's much longer range) while the Hurricane was best suited to close troop support from rough airstrips just behind the front.
I thought it was an interesting analysis of the relative suitability of different aircraft to different fighting roles.
Excellent comment.
Another point missed. The Hurricane wing was originally fabric covered but they found it tended to balloon at high speed so they covered it in aluminium sheet. You now had a metal wing with massive spars - effectively a monocoque with a chassis inside. This made it very stiff unlike the Spit's wings. On top of that the Hurricane's guns were much closer together. So you had a very concentrated and accurate set of guns. The Spit's guns being further apart in a flexing wing made the concentration of fire nothing like as effective. When they say the Hurricane was a better gun platform this is what they meant. Dowding had wanted guns zeroed at about 1200 feet to give a shotgun effect, most Hurricane pilots set there's at less than 600. MY father who flew with 213 Squadron Hurricanes shot down two JU 88s in his first combat and his after action report claims he opened fire at 50 Yds!!! He always said he was in the best aircraft at the time.
It is or was important that both planes were available and present in the hands of eager and skilled young pilots.
Brillant! Thank You!
Thanks for the informative vid.
Really love the content and presentation, thanks . And thanks to the pilots of the Battle of Britain and thereafter
He gets facts wrong.
The top RAF ace of the Second World War, Pat Pattle, flew both the Gloster Gladiator (15 kills) and the Hawker Hurricane (the rest of the kills...).
I thought the Canadian Johnnie Johnson was the top RAF ace of the war?
Excellent presentation!
Great video. Love seeing the Hurricanes and Spitfires flying over in the airshow season. Had some great views of them this summer.
My father worked at Dunsfold on the development of the P1127 and Hawk in 50's 60's 70's. We had a family day at the airfield where we got to see flying, their Dragon Rapide, Hind, a Sea Fury and The Last of the Many! Quite a day!
But this was matched by one day I was turning into our drive from school on my bike ,in Guildford and the Last of the Many flew over and waggled its wings at me! Some of the pilots had been at our house earlier in the month and I had met them.
Mr. Rodgers is just so great at storytelling, i love hearing what he has to say about those great machines! Cheers from Poland!
He gets facts wrong.
Love these videos. Insightful, informative & very interesting.
This informative and up-close vid is pure gold! Thank you! Must have been some emotional feeling pulling over that canopy.
The Hurricane was the work horse of the Battle of Britain while the Spitfire was the star of the show. There were more Hurricanes than Spitfires during this battle . Both were excellent aircraft and should be remembered as such .
The pilots of the Hurricanes launched by catapults from merchant vessels were incredibly brave men, especially those assigned to North Atlantic winter and Arctic onvoys, where ditching in the water most often meant death from hypothermia.
Great video and informations. Thank you for that.
Outstanding Informative Video Sir Cheers 👍😇👌🍻
A wonderful video and thanks for making it. The Hurricane is an unsung hero, but not just the Battle of Britain, but also the Battle of Malta GC.
The Hurricanes held as best they could after their arrival on the island in 1941 until the first Spitfires went to Malta in 1942. Hurricanes also formed the first Nightfighter unit on the island, the Malta Nightfigher Unit, utilising the Mk IIc which went on to become 1435 squadron to take on daylight ops.
Of the Battle Of Britain, pilot Ray Holmes was also notable, for when he ran out of ammunition, he used his Hurricane to ram a Dornier DO-17. Holmes survived while both aircraft crashed in London, the Hurricanes Merlin engine was excavated and recovered a few years back
I remember exactly when I assembled one of my first plastic model kits, the Hawker Hurricane MKI by Revell scale 1/32, around 1982, I was a kid and the kit looked huge next to me, there, in the manual, I read for the first time about the Battle of England. Today, even the kit is a museum piece, as Revell retooled the mold and the MKI version no longer exists, I miss that kit and those days. Greetings from Brazil.
Very well and succinctly put!
Great moderator, lots of interesting facts and stories!
The Hurricane couldn't just outturn the 109, it could even outturn the Spitfire below 12,000 feet. Quite a lovely kite, the old Hurry!😁
Twelve or thirteen Hurricanes flying today? That's a lot better than in 1968 when the movie "Battle of Britain" was filmed, they could only muster three!
A lot of sweat, love, and no doubt a little blood went into bringing those ten more Hurricanes back to life.
Slightly more, about 16 worldwide. There are 12 flying in the UK alone, 3 in the USA, 1 in Canada and 1 in Germany. Several others are being restored to fly.
@@andrewwaller5913 Great to hear! Thanks!
A Squadron got sold off to Portugal at the end of the war. When they made the film back in 1968 they brought the remnants of the Portugese Squadron back for the film !
@@nicholaswilliams4336 Really? I didn't know that! I've got a book on the making of "Battle of Britain" and the big story in the book was the aquisition of the "Messerschmitts," the Hurricanes didn't get much mention at all compared to everything else.
Wonderful presentation, awesome machine.
Great video, really enjoyed watching. Thank-you.😃
We had a hurricane built by canadian car and foundry 1943 mk.2b. This is still at our farm. Bought after being surplus 1946.
Do you still have it?
Worth $millions!
These presentations are like good military briefings. Concise and comprehensive. Well done. Thanks!
Douglas Bader said he was disappointed to be sent to a Hurricane squadron but learnt to love it for its toughness and its ability to be a great gun platform and to get home.
Thank you IWM at Duxford. Used to live next door at Chrishall Grange! Great airshows, great heritage.
I don't know anyone that underrated the Hurricane. The Spit is undeniably beautiful, and was developed throughout the war, and it is also undeniable that the Hurricane was the Dennis Taylor to the Spits Liz Taylor, with an older style design which limited it's development, but it still holds major kudos for the part it played in WWII.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video 🙂👍 I've for what its worth have always preferred Hurricanes to Spitfires.
Hurricanes always struck me as a very 'no nonsense' workhorse.
It did what it said on the tin.
Spitfires were the natural 'pin ups' of WW2 combat, but a Hurricane is the girl you'd want to spend the rest of your life with 👍😉
great information, well done!
A truly beautiful aircraft, thanks so much for putting this video up, great insight into the past.
I love the Hurricane just as much as the Spitfire. What a fantastic job it did during the war, and what exceptionally brave men were their pilots.
Looks perfect for taking on certain drones!
Fantastic video Mr Rodgers. Thoroughly enjoyed watching yet another amazing film.
Thankyou, very interesting presentation
Great show on the differences between both planes. Ultra high tech compared to the planes twenty years before. I saw a B17 and B 24 bomber at a show and they were smaller than I expected. Inside was tight even wearing summer clothes. It took guts to fly those planes but times required it. The failure of the Battle of Britain and the cancellation of the invasion was the first sign that Germany was not to win.
the power output of available aero engines was the limiting factor then.
Harry Hawker who along with a couple of others started Hawker Aircraft. He was an Australian test pilot and was killed in a plane crash in 1921 while practicing for an air show. His name lived on though through a number of famous aircraft and aircraft manufacturing companies. He had a nephew, Alan Hawker (Bob) Chamberlain, who was well known here for designing the Chamberlain tractor. His tractors didn’t go as fast or as high as the Hurricane but were very successful as well none the less. Jeff
Harry Hawker was a genius,but ,As bloody usual...Aussie accomplishments are almost never recognised! A la WW! Gen. Monash. Come WW11,Germans improved on his tactics. The same basic ones that knocked them off their perch in 1917. They called it .. Blitzkrieg.
Very informative, thank you
Good piece mate, thanks.
The Hawker Hurricane: the fighter that saved us. The SM Spitfire was the 'pin-up' boy, deadly enough in it's own right, yet finnicky and far less able to endure the punishment of enemy fire hitting it. But the Hurricane could, because it was a 'grunt', and grunts can take it, keep on taking it and keep coming at you. The versatility of the Hurricane also made it indispensible as a dedicated ground-attack platform. I like 'Grunts', grunts are winners, grunts are the 'back-bone' of an army, be it land, sea, or air-based.
Thanks for watching! We hope you enjoy this video. If you have suggestions for other aircraft videos you'd like to see let us know 👇
Correction: Please note that in the introduction we say the frame of the Spitfire is made of steel; it is in fact aluminium.
Duralumin.
The BoB changed as it progressed. By late September and into October, the massed daylight raids had almost ceased. Instead the Luftwaffe sent over big formations of 109s at high altitude. Hurricanes were useless at intercepting them, because their climb was poorer than that of the Spitfire and their aerodynamics were unsuitable for high-altitude fighting. At that point, the Spitfire was a viable interceptor whereas the Hurricane was completely outclassed.
Night fighting was a different matter. The Hurricane's better view over the nose and better undercart made it a preferred mount for night-interception specialists.
@@raypurchase801 On behalf of the presenter. No it didn't.
Would love to see a video on the B52 & B29
@@lateralg3169 I've left five comments (plus this).
Which comment are you referring to?
Great piece! Wonderful history. I think they were both magnificent!
What a beautifully told story, so alive and informative. Well done, and thank you.