This makes really good sense. It explains simultaneously why so many people believe Christian men are more toxic than non-Christian men and why truly dedicated Christian men are the exact opposite. Seems that those who pay lip service are the real problem.
Please read Dr Nadine Burke-Harris’s book: the deep well. She learned of a ins co. study of children age 0 to 18. The Co. called the “abuse” Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE). It was my life! I read straight through. It made me realize I was normal. My life experiences were sad, NOT MOOD DISORDERS!!! Psychiatry is pseudo science. The drugs were not helpful and perhaps harmful to my liver. Drs are the worse pill pushers. I now have lifelong “side effects”. Her book and the BIBLE were so helpful to me. JESUS IS “THE” PHYSICIAN. PRAISE GOD, WHO IS GOOD ALL THE TIME! GOD BLESS HER FOR BRINGING IN MORE LIGHT. 🙏❤️🙏
I grew up with three older brothers who are real, old-fashioned manly men.. They were protective of me and I have always been so proud of them. I do not know what my parents or I would have done without them. One is an electrician. One is a mechanical design engineer. The third can do any kind of construction, including heating and air conditioning. Honestly, I do not know what the world would do without men like these and God help us if they eventually disappear.
In 2022, I was blessed with the opportunity to undertake a course taught by Professor Pearcey centered on the developing manuscript for The Toxic War On Masculinity. As is the case with all her work, it is magnificent and cuts to the heart of things. Scholarly and comprehensive, she gives much needed clarity, shedding light on surprising facts about the history of concepts of masculinity, showing how the predominating ethos for manhood in the western world degenerated so badly and carving a road for the recovery of a healthy, biblical masculinity. I was amazed to learn just how much evangelical teachings have absorbed assumptions about masculinity rooted in 19th century secular thinking (Darwin, Freud) and the fragmenting impact that the Industrial Revolution had on the family and male identity. For me, the big takeaway from this book is that contrary to today's narrow, truncated and often heinous assumptions about masculinity, it is not toxic, let alone synonymous with immorality. Masculinity is inherently good and synonymous with virtue. We should be grateful for Christ-like men, for it is in Jesus Christ that we find the true embodiment of masculinity as God designed it. We must root masculinity in the 'right worldview' as Francis Shaeffer would say. The world has never been more misled about what it means to be a man. This is one of the most important books for our time. Thank you Sean for hosting Professor Pearcey! This book will be read far and wide. God bless your ministry.
Masculinity is certainly not 'inherently good', any more than feminity is inherently good. Neither actually really makes much sense. As for ethics, even with Jesus we saw not much difference in how men act and women act. "Goodness" is an ethical term, and nobody says "ok, well, your a girl, that means its ethical to do this....while as a boy, you do this". Thats nonsense. What you CAN do is set out your definition of masculinity and what it entails and then tie that into ethical considerations. I see VERY LITTLE, to virtually no difference between the sexes. Men now do as much child care as women in teh states. Thats 'good', IF you consider that masculinity means helping your own goddam offspring. If you think its more 'masculine' to smoke a pipe and read the news while the wife does all the child care, obviously thats something else entirely. And certainly the biblical notion on that is suspect. The JESUS notion is not so much because again, Jesus didn't see BIG differences, not like his apostles. But the christian notion of 'masculinity' in, say, Paul, is the "you the man" and "you in charge". I think thats ridiculous, Jesus spoke of equality.
@@cpjds1 I seriously doubt that. I read the first paragraph and it was barf inducing. As if ONLY men are ever self sacrificial. And as if people are complaining 'because some men will sacrifice themselves in moments of emergency'.
I am involved with the men's ministry at my local church. I want this info for our men to encourage. Thank you for your hard work and research to help break the misinformation in our society.
Great to hear your local church does men's ministry. We should strive to make it a norm in all local congregations for God meatures the strength of His Church by counting the men able to fight in his wars as He measured the nation of Israel in the Bible. If the Body of Christ is poor in men, it lacks the strength to hold true to His teaching and spead it to the world around us.
Love, love, love this conversation…you are both making a difference! Thank you….Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen Ephesians 3:20. Keep speaking the truth in love…that IS the answer.💕
"Which great religious leader would you trust your daughter with for a day?" I LOVE that question! I wonder if it would be weird if I called everyone that's ever told me that Christianity is sexist and asked them this question.
She's the only one I have ever heard say what I have thought - the industrial revolution took work out of the home. The concept of wife stays home, husband goes to work is not proscribed in the Bible as seems to be what was taught by churches and promoted in culture after the industrial revolution up until feminist influence (which I think just made things worse by taking both parents out of the home).
The majority of of abusive church going men, at least the ex baptist husband I had had the saying many false doctrinal churches have, which is, once saved, always saved, and they see that as their ticket to keep looking at their porn,being abusive, saying they are a Christian and living like the world, because they never sincerely gave their lives to Christ so they could be baptized with The Holy Spirit and become the new creation that they are supposed to be 😭😭😭
She is awesome! You have had a couple people on your show from Houston now! I need to look them up and see if they ever have speeches or lectures in the area!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! What an amazing and clear explanation of what I have understood internally without being able to express as clearly nor was I able to give the background and back up what I understood!
Sean, I don't know if you read these comments, but I really appreciate the work you do. I know if at least one young man who presents a a trans woman. He says, "I know I'm actually make, but I present as a woman because I don't identify with all those toxic masculine traits." He needs to know there is a positive masculinity available!
Love this❤I fully understand the headship of the husband in the home… and I never feel my husband is above me. Just love the family unit as our God created it. Our God is so awesome❤
You mean to say us complementarians aren’t so bad, after all? 😝 Our copy arrived today and I look forward to reading it. Nancy is such an encouragement and gift to the church! Great interview!
Another hot topic conversation I hope you do is a follow up to AI. Its getting scary realistic. What does it mean? Assume one day talking to it gets indistinguishable from a human conversation how will that impact us? What will that be? Mimcry? Life like that of an animal? Im sure Im not that only one needing help sorting through this topic.
Interesting project, self reporting is always tricky. The interpretation of nominal is also challenging. If prof P did similar studies among Muslim women or in arranged marriage cultures, she will have the same stats as so-called commited Christians. I laud her for telling her story and including a lens for us to understand her study of nominal men.
Yeah so far she isn't describing the criteria they use to determine who is evangelical and who isn't. She isn't telling what process of how they select the subjects in these studies.
@@leonardhunt7241 yet she says opening with this study is important for getting people to open up about her viewpoint. She doesn't even say what the name of the study is. Unless I missed it.
Oh, good grief! I can't even begin to listen to this. As a survivor (I will not allow myself to be termed a victim) of toxic masculinity in the workplace and in social situations. Blessedly, my father, brother, and husband taught me not to stand for toxic masculinity. Based on the title of the book, this is all a defense of patriarchy and abuse.
@@S.M.E.A.C How interesting that you resort to foul language ... Guess you are very masculine. There is no "toxic war" on masculinity, just decent people saying, "Enough!"
Actually the writer of the book endured horrible abuse herself from her father growing up. She has worked through that and does not hate men or masculinity in general. But the world right now demonizes all men including innocent good men. I encourage you to listen to the interview and then see what you think. God bless.
@@lind774 As the interview agreed 👍 Not dealing with and working through your background is detrimental to your interactions with people; abstaining from male involvement won’t enable you to be balanced.
I wonder if fundamentalists are also studied. Like, the men who are very prideful about their church attendance and have an obsession with male authority. The John Macarthur crowd with the abuse stories and the SBC with the database of abusers comes to mind. It happens to the point where the people that I thought were the fringe are a lot greater in number than I thought. Seems like the complimentarians that are more Christlike are the ones who are nearly indistinguishable from egalitarians in behavior. But the ones who are very obviously complimentarian, whether they go to church and know theology or not, are the one's who pull rank all the time.
The assertion that the SBC has a sex abuse crisis is a hoax, a politically-motivated piece of fake news. And some people that I consider reliable have said that Julie Roys has badly misportrayed the facts regarding John MacArthur.
@Sean McDowell can you look into Sheila Wray Gregoire? She’s been getting a lot of attention for her dissent against male headship and sounds very similar to the quotes Nancy Pearcy used from the churchtoo cofounder and such. Some of the points gregoire makes are good but my husband and I have felt they were poorly supported. I’m concerned that she is gaining popularity so quickly.
Back in 1969 or 1971?, thereabouts i heard your dad at then headquarters of CCC. His syllabus and book, Evidence that Demands a Verdict impacted countless lives
I married a Christian man, and he was a very cowardly and expected me to do what he wanted. He showed me no Godly love, and he was abusive toward our chilren. He'd spy on me when I was on the lavatory and then mock me laughing and copying me. I had no idea what love was, due to my own childhood trauma. I was there for his pleasure. I had to get between him and our children when he was in a blind rage. I HAD to take my kids and myself out of danger. So often I hear those cherry picked verses where women should submit to their husbands 😩🙏➕️
I pray that these findings will be broadcasted AND that men in general, will STOP feeling guilty for being MEN. This needs to BE TAKEN ON TO a STAGE of American PRESENCE. YIELDING TO GOD and His ways brings PEACE in any home. That is why we submit to each other, too. “He is our Peace.”
“Are Men Necessary?” Is this for real, are we really asking this question? It is so absurd that it is unworthy of a response. Where has humanities basic common sense gone? Where is the love?💞
We need to at least acknowledge that the church has a problem providing cover for abusers because we are too trusting and can’t believe it would be happening among us. And that doubly traumatizes the victims.
Jesus/Yahweh APPROVED Masculinity: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. LOL
Speaking to a woman or women about masculinity is not helpful. Their contribution is always sloppy. This woman may be well meaning. However, as all woman speaking on this she fails... next.
It is encouraging to see many begin to take a closer look at headship and Biblical Patriarchy, and are returning to something approximating God’s original order and design for the roles of men and women.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
This makes really good sense. It explains simultaneously why so many people believe Christian men are more toxic than non-Christian men and why truly dedicated Christian men are the exact opposite. Seems that those who pay lip service are the real problem.
Please read Dr Nadine Burke-Harris’s book: the deep well. She learned of a ins co. study of children age 0 to 18. The Co. called the “abuse” Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE). It was my life! I read straight through. It made me realize I was normal. My life experiences were sad, NOT MOOD DISORDERS!!! Psychiatry is pseudo science. The drugs were not helpful and perhaps harmful to my liver. Drs are the worse pill pushers. I now have lifelong “side effects”. Her book and the BIBLE were so helpful to me. JESUS IS “THE” PHYSICIAN. PRAISE GOD, WHO IS GOOD ALL THE TIME!
GOD BLESS HER FOR BRINGING IN MORE LIGHT. 🙏❤️🙏
I grew up with three older brothers who are real, old-fashioned manly men.. They were protective of me and I have always been so proud of them. I do not know what my parents or I would have done without them. One is an electrician. One is a mechanical design engineer. The third can do any kind of construction, including heating and air conditioning. Honestly, I do not know what the world would do without men like these and God help us if they eventually disappear.
In 2022, I was blessed with the opportunity to undertake a course taught by Professor Pearcey centered on the developing manuscript for The Toxic War On Masculinity. As is the case with all her work, it is magnificent and cuts to the heart of things. Scholarly and comprehensive, she gives much needed clarity, shedding light on surprising facts about the history of concepts of masculinity, showing how the predominating ethos for manhood in the western world degenerated so badly and carving a road for the recovery of a healthy, biblical masculinity.
I was amazed to learn just how much evangelical teachings have absorbed assumptions about masculinity rooted in 19th century secular thinking (Darwin, Freud) and the fragmenting impact that the Industrial Revolution had on the family and male identity.
For me, the big takeaway from this book is that contrary to today's narrow, truncated and often heinous assumptions about masculinity, it is not toxic, let alone synonymous with immorality. Masculinity is inherently good and synonymous with virtue. We should be grateful for Christ-like men, for it is in Jesus Christ that we find the true embodiment of masculinity as God designed it. We must root masculinity in the 'right worldview' as Francis Shaeffer would say.
The world has never been more misled about what it means to be a man. This is one of the most important books for our time. Thank you Sean for hosting Professor Pearcey! This book will be read far and wide. God bless your ministry.
She’s one of my favs!
Masculinity is certainly not 'inherently good', any more than feminity is inherently good. Neither actually really makes much sense. As for ethics, even with Jesus we saw not much difference in how men act and women act. "Goodness" is an ethical term, and nobody says "ok, well, your a girl, that means its ethical to do this....while as a boy, you do this". Thats nonsense.
What you CAN do is set out your definition of masculinity and what it entails and then tie that into ethical considerations. I see VERY LITTLE, to virtually no difference between the sexes. Men now do as much child care as women in teh states. Thats 'good', IF you consider that masculinity means helping your own goddam offspring. If you think its more 'masculine' to smoke a pipe and read the news while the wife does all the child care, obviously thats something else entirely. And certainly the biblical notion on that is suspect. The JESUS notion is not so much because again, Jesus didn't see BIG differences, not like his apostles. But the christian notion of 'masculinity' in, say, Paul, is the "you the man" and "you in charge". I think thats ridiculous, Jesus spoke of equality.
How do you get a book?
@@mikearchibald744You should really read her book. It’s transformative.
@@cpjds1 I seriously doubt that. I read the first paragraph and it was barf inducing. As if ONLY men are ever self sacrificial. And as if people are complaining 'because some men will sacrifice themselves in moments of emergency'.
I am involved with the men's ministry at my local church. I want this info for our men to encourage. Thank you for your hard work and research to help break the misinformation in our society.
Great to hear your local church does men's ministry. We should strive to make it a norm in all local congregations for God meatures the strength of His Church by counting the men able to fight in his wars as He measured the nation of Israel in the Bible. If the Body of Christ is poor in men, it lacks the strength to hold true to His teaching and spead it to the world around us.
Nancy's book called Total Truth is also a must read. Excellent!
I can vouch for the results of the study. Definitely a happy wife of a Christian husband. We practice biblical submission.
Love, love, love this conversation…you are both making a difference! Thank you….Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen Ephesians 3:20. Keep speaking the truth in love…that IS the answer.💕
Thanks-glad to hear!
Nancy is brilliant! This conversation was so compelling and edifying. Thanks so much!
"Which great religious leader would you trust your daughter with for a day?" I LOVE that question! I wonder if it would be weird if I called everyone that's ever told me that Christianity is sexist and asked them this question.
Christians have sometimes been sexist. But Jesus was absolutely not!
@@SeanMcDowell so true!
@@priyarachel This is how RAVI ZACHARIAS was able to thrive as a Xtian Apologist.
LOL
She's the only one I have ever heard say what I have thought - the industrial revolution took work out of the home. The concept of wife stays home, husband goes to work is not proscribed in the Bible as seems to be what was taught by churches and promoted in culture after the industrial revolution up until feminist influence (which I think just made things worse by taking both parents out of the home).
The majority of of abusive church going men, at least the ex baptist husband I had had the saying many false doctrinal churches have, which is, once saved, always saved, and they see that as their ticket to keep looking at their porn,being abusive, saying they are a Christian and living like the world, because they never sincerely gave their lives to Christ so they could be baptized with The Holy Spirit and become the new creation that they are supposed to be 😭😭😭
That why I prefer to believe in the perseverance of the saints. If you don't persevere you will not be in heaven.
Thank you so much for this research. It's very important to clear up all the misconceptions.
She is awesome! You have had a couple people on your show from Houston now! I need to look them up and see if they ever have speeches or lectures in the area!
Excellent interview. Adding her book to my list!
I just love Nancy P...her book love thy body was amazing. She is just so well spoken!
Great interview. I look forward to hearing more about its impact.
Sharing on Facebag and hoping to pick up her book soon. Great insight into the social constructs we are working with in this day and age.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! What an amazing and clear explanation of what I have understood internally without being able to express as clearly nor was I able to give the background and back up what I understood!
You bet!
Prof. Pearcey, you're a gift. Grateful for, and encouraged by, your great work.
Sean, I don't know if you read these comments, but I really appreciate the work you do. I know if at least one young man who presents a a trans woman. He says, "I know I'm actually make, but I present as a woman because I don't identify with all those toxic masculine traits." He needs to know there is a positive masculinity available!
Thanks, I read as I can!
Wow ...this conversation and book should be WIDELY distributed. This is so freeing as a man!
Men men men men! Yes! We love you men!
-a woman
Wow ! thanks so much for sticking to the facts and hard statistics . listen in particular to the 20 - 25 min mark
Love this❤I fully understand the headship of the husband in the home… and I never feel my husband is above me. Just love the family unit as our God created it. Our God is so awesome❤
Loved this! Gunna share it to some friends.
You mean to say us complementarians aren’t so bad, after all? 😝 Our copy arrived today and I look forward to reading it. Nancy is such an encouragement and gift to the church! Great interview!
Another hot topic conversation I hope you do is a follow up to AI. Its getting scary realistic. What does it mean? Assume one day talking to it gets indistinguishable from a human conversation how will that impact us? What will that be? Mimcry? Life like that of an animal? Im sure Im not that only one needing help sorting through this topic.
Just read Mrs. Pearcey book Love Thy Body. A brilliant read!
That is so funny, because I stayed so many times at La Nichée in Huémoz after Birdy died. I heared so many testimonies of people she helped
For men, addiction is often intermingled with issues manhood, mission, and meaning.
Fantastic convo.
I recommend an interview with Brant Hansen and talking about his book "The Men We Need". He writes about healthy Biblical masculinity.
Never heard of him, thanks!
nah, I'm good
Interesting project, self reporting is always tricky. The interpretation of nominal is also challenging.
If prof P did similar studies among Muslim women or in arranged marriage cultures, she will have the same stats as so-called commited Christians.
I laud her for telling her story and including a lens for us to understand her study of nominal men.
how did they differentiate between nominal and non-nominal Christians? nominal Christians also go to church every Sunday.
Yeah so far she isn't describing the criteria they use to determine who is evangelical and who isn't. She isn't telling what process of how they select the subjects in these studies.
gracehawkins4259 She gave the criteria of nominal vs non nominal Christians by their depth of involvement in the organized church activities.
@@patientfirbolg3299 you’ll need to read her book 📕 there’s only so much you can answer in an interview.
@@leonardhunt7241 yet she says opening with this study is important for getting people to open up about her viewpoint. She doesn't even say what the name of the study is. Unless I missed it.
@@leonardhunt7241 thank you. I will look more into it. So far though, I still think that's difficult to gauge by only using Church involvement.
I know many men who are wonderful Christian real men!!!
Wow this is so amazing and not a surprise. Makes complete sense
Sean, this is most certainly a timely topic. Folks, I mean, where do you want to begin? I am looking forward to it.
You’ll love it!
I would also like to hear more about the impact of Hutton, Lyell and Darwin on the Christian faith. Lyell wanted long ages to do away with Moses.
Oh, good grief! I can't even begin to listen to this. As a survivor (I will not allow myself to be termed a victim) of toxic masculinity in the workplace and in social situations. Blessedly, my father, brother, and husband taught me not to stand for toxic masculinity. Based on the title of the book, this is all a defense of patriarchy and abuse.
Perhaps you SHOULD listen to it. It's the complete opposite of the bullshit you claim it to be.
@@S.M.E.A.C How interesting that you resort to foul language ... Guess you are very masculine. There is no "toxic war" on masculinity, just decent people saying, "Enough!"
Actually the writer of the book endured horrible abuse herself from her father growing up. She has worked through that and does not hate men or masculinity in general. But the world right now demonizes all men including innocent good men. I encourage you to listen to the interview and then see what you think. God bless.
@@lind774 As the interview agreed 👍 Not dealing with and working through your background is detrimental to your interactions with people; abstaining from male involvement won’t enable you to be balanced.
Sean McDowell & Nancy Pearcey!! Yes, PLEASE!
Good discussion.
I wish I could be one of those good men!
What a great interview.I learned so much! I teach my students about servant leadership and of course Jesus is the prime example.
Thank you to both and God bless you
I wonder if fundamentalists are also studied. Like, the men who are very prideful about their church attendance and have an obsession with male authority. The John Macarthur crowd with the abuse stories and the SBC with the database of abusers comes to mind. It happens to the point where the people that I thought were the fringe are a lot greater in number than I thought. Seems like the complimentarians that are more Christlike are the ones who are nearly indistinguishable from egalitarians in behavior. But the ones who are very obviously complimentarian, whether they go to church and know theology or not, are the one's who pull rank all the time.
The assertion that the SBC has a sex abuse crisis is a hoax, a politically-motivated piece of fake news. And some people that I consider reliable have said that Julie Roys has badly misportrayed the facts regarding John MacArthur.
Wow. This is awesome!
Masculinity is just a natural occurrence. Some people, both men and women are more masculine or feminine than others. So what?
So what do we do for the families of the nominally Christian? Just saying, “oh, don’t worry, Dad’s not really a Christian” won’t help much.
@Sean McDowell can you look into Sheila Wray Gregoire? She’s been getting a lot of attention for her dissent against male headship and sounds very similar to the quotes Nancy Pearcy used from the churchtoo cofounder and such. Some of the points gregoire makes are good but my husband and I have felt they were poorly supported. I’m concerned that she is gaining popularity so quickly.
Back in 1969 or 1971?, thereabouts i heard your dad at then headquarters of CCC. His syllabus and book, Evidence that Demands a Verdict impacted countless lives
So cool to hear. He first published it in 72, but was speaking on it years earlier
Just pre-ordered!
I married a Christian man, and he was a very cowardly and expected me to do what he wanted. He showed me no Godly love, and he was abusive toward our chilren. He'd spy on me when I was on the lavatory and then mock me laughing and copying me. I had no idea what love was, due to my own childhood trauma.
I was there for his pleasure. I had to get between him and our children when he was in a blind rage. I HAD to take my kids and myself out of danger. So often I hear those cherry picked verses where women should submit to their husbands 😩🙏➕️
I pray that these findings will be broadcasted AND that men in general, will STOP feeling guilty for being MEN. This needs to BE TAKEN ON TO a STAGE of American PRESENCE. YIELDING TO GOD and His ways brings PEACE in any home. That is why we submit to each other, too. “He is our Peace.”
“Are Men Necessary?” Is this for real, are we really asking this question? It is so absurd that it is unworthy of a response.
Where has humanities basic common sense gone? Where is the love?💞
We need to at least acknowledge that the church has a problem providing cover for abusers because we are too trusting and can’t believe it would be happening among us. And that doubly traumatizes the victims.
I'll never understand why a person will participate in a religion that treats them like second class citizens 🤷
Better Question; are humans necessary?
Hi.
Why this question?
It’s part of the larger issue at play.
@@SeanMcDowellAnd what is the larger issue?
What does it mean to be masculine?
The historical truth is there will always be a war on the status quo.
Becaise it is very much needed these days.💯
Doesn't "don't hit a woman" come from Christianity?
💯
God created man and made a woman out of man's side. Man is the "source" of woman, not her "better". We are equal but different. We NEED each other.
I thought it was women who were losing their rights.
Jesus/Yahweh APPROVED Masculinity:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
LOL
"Promosm"
Is this an attempt to undermine natural law?
Who would have thunk we would be asking such questions. Yes, things are getting more and more evil, perverse, absurd, and godless!
America, get back to the Bible!
Speaking to a woman or women about masculinity is not helpful. Their contribution is always sloppy. This woman may be well meaning. However, as all woman speaking on this she fails... next.
It is encouraging to see many begin to take a closer look at headship and Biblical Patriarchy, and are returning to something approximating God’s original order and design for the roles of men and women.