I consume a lot lot of Magic content but I have to say that Dies to Removal is by far the most entertaining MTG show out there. Thank you guys so much for these!
57:27 For anyone that thinks the prof is a shill, he is obviously so passionate about creating an affordable and fun card game, how could you think that???
Jon Z i don’t know about “shill” but there’s definitely a section of players that are more invested in speculating on the market of magic card singles as well as sealed product, more so than they are in say, deck building or you know, playing the game. These are the type of “players” who would be very upset at reprints because it would “hurt the price” (read: remove the artificial scarcity) of their cards. Personally I think magic is a game and I think that speculation, mark-ups and the second hand markets ruin everything I love about the game by turning into a glorified lottery game with extra steps.
@@l4l01234 I don't think the second hand market actually ruins the game. If they started reprinting everything, a huge chunk of Wizards customers who just collect will simply stop, making LGSs/WOTC suffer. It's like an ecosystem where even the Jackals who speculate keeps the game interesting to even the ppl who don't play... I M O
@@l4l01234 i am not an investor in magic in any way shape or form... i play standard and when its about to rotate sell all but 1 copy of my cards to keep for commander... but the thought of everything getting reprinted down to pennies horrifies me. me and a lot of other people have thousands invested into the game and while i do not see this as an investment in any way the thought of my decks values going down to nothing would be a huge slap in the face.
Here's an idea that wotc won't ever implement: drop collector boosters, replace it with a collector box: it contains a playset of every card in the set. Sell it for $200 or $300. Then draft boosters aren't gambling, because everything is easily accessible. And draft booster boxes are still the cheaper option.
TF2 was a game saved by lootboxes, but Overwatch was the first to be marred by them. When TF2 introduced loot boxes it was because it went from asking for $20 upfront to being free to play with the new lootbox system. This was celebrated because it revived the then 5-year-old title, increased its overall profits AND its playerbase. When Overwatch had their lootboxes it was on top of an already full price game. People complained about getting nothing but stickers and wallsprays, and also not being able to buy the skins you want. The system purposely made drop rates hidden and low.
Best option to avoid randomness would be sell the whole sets, 1 of each card for a specific cost, the same for each set (varying by number of cards only), then it would be like any other game, in theory. (obviously not gonna happen, because money from the randomness, it's much easier to sell a lot of cheap products than one more expensive too) And keep boosters for draft.
You could sell sets of lands, green cards, red cards ect. Sell singles. Sell decks. Sell randomized packs for drafting but the whole box contents are standardized.
You just described a living card game like Game of Thrones with a drafting option. Not a bad idea, but highly unlikely Wizards would ever turn off the money machine.
I agree, especially on Arena where it would be easy for WOTC to set it up. I buy full common sets off ebay for $8-15 and am never unhappy with them, especially if you're a casual player looking to get into Pauper/Peasant like myself. That said I love opening booster packs though - it's fine so long as you temper expectations and are looking to build casual decks. If I can make 10-25% of my money back by selling obnoxious cards to the competitives/set collectors then I'm happy enough.
I think what you're missing is that certain cards will be better than others and therefore will be more desirable. Then those cards will be sold on a secondary market
my rule of thumb in my playgroup is just proxy it with a card that does a really similar effect. Can't afford a time twister? use days undoing and just let everyone know.
Proxy’s are cheating in my opinion because everyone else has to pay for the cards. It makes sense if you actually own the card and you just want a cool art or something.
This entire time I sit here and am thinking "wait... what was deluxe edition" only to remember what wizards pulled in that throne of eldraine deluxe edition. Simply put, there is just SOOO many products and stuff like the deluxe edition simply slips through the mind of consumers because there is a bombardment of endless products at various price points.
The sense of excitement I get just before I crack a pack that I could get a card that at best is worth some money, at worst landfill, but most likely something to put in my trade binder for commander or bulk sale. I buy boxes just to crack packs like the people who buy scratch tickets to use the winnings to buy more scratch tickets
... when you buy a single, you just paid someone else to open draft packs for you. The problem I always have with this argument (as someone that only buys events/singles) is that there is no other option to receive the cards I desire other than to open draft packs (myself or via someone else). The only way they print cards is in packs.
It is gambling and no different than loot boxes in videogames. Tarmogoyf receiving an upgrade because of secondary market value is but one example of Wizards clearly placing a monetary value in the cards we find in booster packs. Sensei's Diving Top is a rare nowadays, and so is Mystical Tutor.
I would argue, and I'm very surprised they skimmed over this point, that it's analogous to the worst kind of loot boxes (the pay to win model). You're not only gambling to get a cosmetic upgrade for the game you've already paid for, you're gambling to be able to continue to play the game you've bought into, and you're gambling to be able to have a better chance at performing well in that game. It's an incredibly manipulative and coercive business model, and when I worked at an LGS, I often felt more like a drug pusher than a retail employee.
This was really good. You guys dug deep on this one. I really appreciate Prof's honesty in regards to being hooked on mtg when he 1st started out. (No shame man)
They've already acknowledged the secondary market through using "reprint equity" to determine what cards to reprint, as they do with things like Masters sets, and now secret lairs.
It's annoying, in this day and age, that anyone or any company can "legitimately" feign the idea that they aren't aware of something they could google in seconds.
@@bobby45825 Imagine they got to court over something (anything, really) and expert witness there by-the-way estabilished that card indeed do have value on secondary markets. They could no longer pretend that they are not aware of cash value of cards, right?
The reprint equity theory wasn't a WotC employee or an official WotC release. It's almost certainly true, but not something they've ever officially acknowledged.
And how the hell does it not count as acknowledging the secondary market to work with, or talk about the Reserve List, and especially with their goddammed insistence on expanding the already arbitrary scope of "the spirit of the RL" as an excuse to not do some things?
Having watched the whole thing, I'm surprised that neither of them really mentioned that the idea that Booster packs facilitate limited formats as they currently exist. The idea of say, draft, is dependent on having a limited pool of cards that you can't predict before hand. While certainly people open packs for many other reasons, I'm surprised they didn't even bring this up during their discussion of why packs getting outlawed as gambling would be bad for the game. But I think it's relevant as a point to show that packs actually serve to create interesting formats and strategic opportunities and don't solely serve as a type of gambling.
Yeah, but is it really so integral to Draft that the cards need to be perfectly random from a given set? Hasn't the multitude of Cube sets out there proven that you don't need the booster pack to have an ideal draft experience?
You act like the cards are only good for one game then you gotta throw em out. People really be shuffling cards for years of their life and then pretending like opening up a fresh pack is the only way to introduce randomness to cards.
Yes they brand them draft packs now because with additon of collector boosters there is no real value in them. Just look at the EV of Ikoria booster box. Because there is certain amount of people who will always crack for value, why not sell them booster boxes that are five times more expensive now. Collector boosters are just a way to monetize this thirst for shiny rare cards even harder.
@@matejkotz6059 I mean... EV of regular Ikoria boxes is where it is right now due to supply being higher than it has ever been. Couple that with, presumably, a lesser demand thanks to current economic/social conditions as well as the fact that, comparatively, you don't get as many shiny things as the collector's boosters, you get the kind of scenario we're in now. Don't be surprised when regular boxes climb back up though.
Also the Draft Pack is a game piece for a specific format (at least for physical Magic). That is the only reason why I would say they are not the same as loot boxes. Boosters on Arena are absolutely loot boxes.
I am currently stockpiling one of every pack released in the Modern era to open on my birthday in August. Is it dumb? Maybe. Will I lose out financially? Absolutely. Will I have the best damn birthday getting to experience the history of the past 17 years in MtG's life? No friggin doubt about it.
@AmateurThespian Capitalism won't throw you in a gulag for insulting the great leader. Couple that with putting people that love 'moral outrage' and preaching on a pedastle? What the fuck could go wrong, comrade?
@AmateurThespian If I were you I would compare the United States and places to places like China, Russia and Venezuela. People can come on here and say things like that because they live in a free country where you can worry about first world problems. People take for granted how good they have it constantly.
"They'd reprint aggressively to destroy the secondary market. They'd reprint fetchlands at common" Man, don't let Rudy from Alpha Investment watch this. He'll get diarrhea.
@@hydrainfernos9081 the magic "investing" community has a right to exist and are an important part of what makes the game work. The problem is Wizards operates in a manner that let's them run wild.
What the fuck does Rudy have anything to do with this? If he could still move product and create a profit margin he would. He invests in the reserved list for a reason. People that irrationally hate MTG Investors are morons. They aren't the ones actively hurting the modern game. WotC is doing that on their own.
Hi Prof! You always have such insightful thoughts on MTG, and every time I see a new video from you I watch it while I go through my collection and build a new deck or just look through my old cards. It's a good feeling to have during this time, and I can't wait to get back to playing paper magic again with my friends
WOTC need to sit down in a room and watch this video, then take a long, good look at themselves in the mirror and really, really think about what they’re doing. Great video guys
corporations don't elect to self-regulate themselves out of making money. It's the players who need to sit down and think about what products they're financially supporting.
Hey prof, I was wondering if in next episodes you could explore how WotC suddenly has developed an antagonistic relationship with their enfranchised players. raising the power creep of standard, Modern Horizons, huge stinginess of reprints outside the RL, game changing stuff like companions, killing legacy for modern and now killing modern for pioneer...these are all measures to combat people playing the same old deck for years without (barely) spending money on new cards. It used to be part of the healthy relationship between players and wotc, an unwritten agreement that if you played mtg long enough you would build a collection of cards, and you'd have formats to enjoy them after rotation. that was your reward for being a loyal and faithful customer, having the option of opting out of the standard hamster wheel for some time (or forever) if thats what you wanted. But seems like WotC are trying to change the rules of the game , and force enfranchised players to either get back on the wheel of spending or leave by making increasingly difficult to enjoy older formats without keeping up to date. if you told people that after rotation all their cards are shit and worthless and their decks are gone for good, noone would buy into mtg. the idea of (some of) them remaining relevant and playable in older formats were the carrot at the end of the stick, one that wotc supported for a long time. This days everything is a rotating format on quarterly basis, and worse, old cards get bans so new cards can remain unbanned. isnt what wotc is doing now betraying the very foundations of the game and reneging on their tacit gentlemen's agreement with enfranchised players?
and that's why you play with your friends / formats that don't expire standard is terrible in that regard but it's not like it's our only option for playing with our cards
How would you propose wizards release cards instead? Not being snarky, genuine question. Have you looked at the fantasy flight living card game model at all perhaps? Or do you have issues with that too?
@@Tails7777 While I am not @Izzet Right? - Magic: the Gathering for Beginners, I think he was talking about the profit motive in general. He appeared to be more pointing out a problem with the system rather than a problem with WOTC in specific. There is no real way of getting around the profit motive under Capitalism, so no solution can be provided while still being for-profit. Also, I know nothing about fantasy flight, what is there game model?
@@Tails7777 we all need to make money of course but a lot of companies are not longer happy with making money, they want ALL the money. It's also our fault as consumers for continuing to support these practices. Like we can complain about call of duty and bad DLC but if people weren't buying it, they wouldn't be doing it
@@mariarandazzo9739 Yeah as dragonruler said basically the cards game are sold in sealed product that contain every single card in that set. So there is the core set that will contain the entire core element of the game. If it was magic it would 30 of each basic land and 4 copies of all cards in their core set, then when a set comes out the set contains again playsets of all cards. So you never need to buy more than 1 of each expansion, and you know exactly what you are getting when you buy it. I honestly would love to see magic have this as a affordable option as well as boosters. As I both love constructed formats and limited formats.
There is a reason why the boosters are now called "draft boosters" and it's not to avoid confusion with collector boosters - this way they say "this product we sell is a gameplay experience, not a loot box".
That may be true but WotC's own messaging doesn't support that assumption. In the Booster Fun article where MaRo revealed the existence of Collectors Boosters is also where they announced the new Draft Booster name and yes it was to denote that they are for drafting it was only necessitated to delineate that Collector's boosters AREN'T for drafting as well as to lower confusion between the products. Ergo, they exist solely for cardboard gambling and are in fact loot boxes. If anything legally brings down WotC it'll be Collector's Boosters and Secret Lair's not draft boosters but at the same time if it wasn't for Collector's boosters draft boosters would've never changed their name.
From the perspective of someone who just opens packs during draft and prerelease, and as a budget player, cracking packs being gambling is a matter of intent and expectation. Most of the cards I want from a set are the spicy uncommons. Since I'm a budget player I don't really get beat up if I don't open them in a pack because chances are they'll be $0.75 at the most for me to pick up a few days down the road from prerelease, or even later that night if I'm drafting. Cracking assets $25 Mythic is gravy for someone like me. If people who open booster boxes for Value I think in this respect across your booster box game videos are closest to the idea of packs being gambling. Well done discussion guys! Usually I just lurk, but I had opinions and thought I'd share.
the problem is't u or our class, but the ppl who is in here for profit, rather grinder of tournaments who need the cards or the investors, no shame on mtg finance, but the problem as they say wouldn't exist if anybody could do just what u said: "if i don't open it, i get if for dirt cheap later". they have just increasingly worsen the problem by not solving the availability of cards, since that's the main driver of prices, poweful cards are bought and thus become less available
Booster packs have always walked the find line of being gambling. Not even just with magic, other card games have this problem but I don't see the future in which booster packs will be outlawed
I see a future in which booster packs are regulated. Hasbro might have too much lobbying influence in the United States but elsewhere, especially in Europe, organizations are already cracking down on MTG mainly for tournaments but still, packs could be next.
Completely agree with the wise sage Professor. Gambling can be fun. That’s the whole point of a collectible card game. But when it becomes exploitative, through short printing and artificial scarcity, it crosses a line. And gaming companies have to be held accountable for this misconduct.
It's funny you're talking about addiction when I've just uninstalled Magic Arena from all my computers since I've realized I was addicted to it. I didn't like how tilted I got after strings of losses. It was so hard to do it after having invested time and money in the client, but I suppose it was the right thing to do. Maybe I'll come back after a good break. To me magic is better played with friends or in physical events :)
That's a big same from me. I started netdecking tier 1 decks just to be able to play and wasn't having fun. I'm now playing minecraft again with friends and its fantastic. One day I'll return to arena but it will be at least a few months of break time.
I'll say this if I could buy cards direct from wizards I would never crack packs again. The only way to "play" the game is to either but packs or buy singles from a secondary market. Card packs are exactly like loot boxes
You two expressed pretty much every concern I've had (and expressed myself) for years about WotC, MtG, Arena, loot boxes, gambling, and gaming monetization models perfectly.
56:50 Prof goes into a rage I that is (nearly) equivalent to the rage I feel every time I think about MTG from an economic stand point. They make money from a total of 1 thing: packs (and Secret Lairs now, but you know... oh yeah, and cosmetics, but, you get it!) what's the best way to make it so that packs start selling like they did back in Alpha? reprint reprint reprint until packs aren't a gamble at all and now everyone goes "Well, okay, 4 bucks 4 bucks!" I love cracking packs, but I always feel very dissapointed in myself when I turn $4 into 30 cents. This would fix that mindset perfectly because I would know that I am burning $4 here most likely, but hey, it's fun as all hell!
Exactly! I would definitely buy more booster packs if I had a chance of always getting something amazing. Wizards kinda leaned into that with Mystery Boosters, I loved those!
Here’s my take (I’m just a fan of video games and MTG so take it for what it’s worth). Are booster packs gambling? Yes. Does that mean MTG is morally bankrupt? No. It’s gambling because you are always buying them hoping for that one card you want. It’s not morally bankrupt though because they don’t prevent us from having a thriving secondary market. Most video games definitely prevent us from trading skins and whatever else, forcing us to buy the lootbox to get what we want. That’s what makes it morally bankrupt and makes it very predatory, is when the developer/publisher or the manufacturer of the thing FORCES people down this particularly predatory path to get what we want. For a good example of a game that DOES provide and encourage a secondary market look at Warframe. MTG does the same, as long as they let us do this then they aren’t morally bankrupt. And for people who say predatory micro transactions are fine if they’re cosmetic I encourage you to consider two things. First, if you were buying any other product and this was how the system was set up would you accept that as a fair and worthwhile way to do business? And second I encourage you to watch this video by Favyn here on YT ruclips.net/video/H0aOY4Ex0Fg/видео.html it explains why and how micro transactions cheeped games by removing the options to better the game with customization and cosmetics.
@@CJ-nd9gg I like to listen to music, podcasts when I'm walking to work. It's less data consuming if You stream only sound. I know that some of the jokes won't work.
@@wypadkowaprzypadku i just use a regular podcast app. A lot of creators don't go through the trouble of adding it to spotify. I think it's fine, there's a million different app options for you to listen to podcasts.
This game does not live because of, but despite wotc's business decisions. What carries this great game is people giving out free cards to fellow players and content creators like both of you. Prof., your videos brought me back to magic, and I've been enjoying the experience ever since. Thank you!
I really love the report you two have with each other. I don't normally like this type of format, though most of my exposure to it is from here and from video about other topics (video games come to mind) and there is just something about the way you speak to each other and by extension us, that makes this work. It is certainly filled with arcane termonology but in a way that is paradoxically welcoming I feel, and just the general tone and mood really shows a level of humility that I feel is lacking elsewere. you both are presenting yourselves as experts with knowledge on the topic without presenting yourself as THE expert if that makes sense and I really appriceate that.
I just got past the intro and felt I had to comment. These intros and videos are literally my favorite thing to watch on RUclips. Thanks for the awesome content!!
57:30 I feel so much better now that some one else has said this... it felt weird hearing such silence from our media personalities about something so obvious as reprints... imconvinced they only really need to make lands cheap as free too... thnx again for your dedication to the game
One thing that you said has been stuck in my head for the past few weeks. MTG is scarcity marketing plain and simple. WotC knows damn well if they print a mythical that will rock the socks off of one or multiple formats it will be worth $20+ right out of the pack. The less number of a valuable card, the more the card will be worth. WotC are fully capable of printing a card and for the most part setting the value of it (the meta will change but a bomb is a bomb and if there are only X number of them the price will reflect it).
You reminded me of tournament packs. We each used to get one, plus a couple of boosters, and hold "events" in between classes. We even used to "help" unlucky players that ended with sub-par records by allowing them to get more boosters, in what was a "Sealed league" most stores would be doing. Such amazing times.
Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Now I want a video where this is all that's in it.
I love this episode, this is something that has been on my mind since project 'booster fun' when alarm bells went off. Though I have to ask, where is the discussion for collector boosters! The difference between draft boosters and collector boosters is in the name. Draft boosters are partial defendable since they are for playing with, collector boosters are for.. gambling?
My argument is; how can they possibly deny that there’s a secondary market, AND still have the Reserved List? A collection of cards they promise not to reprint only because they hold monetary value???
Prof, in the last DTR episode, you asked if we'd be interested in you continuing the show. I commented and said yes, provided it has good quality. I was thinking clear sound and clean video, but you went above and beyond. That intro was MINT! PS: you're the first MTG youtuber I ever subscribed to. You taught me how to make a proper commander deck. Without you're help, I would've never drawn hate from my playgroup. It felt good(:
Prof, the word you're looking for fifty minutes in is 'avaricious.' Also, they did it because they knew that people would buy both the Mythic Edition and then just as many boosters looking for regular fetches.
Communist gamer :p At the end of the game, do you shoot the winner, and declare yourself the leader of a glorious new game, where everyone wins under your leadership?
@@CJ-nd9gg You have some strange ideas about what communism is, friend. Not that that isn't to be expected, with all the propaganda that's been going around since the start of the Cold War. By the way, that's the anarcho-communist flag in their avatar, so....
TheCommunistGamer what does that even mean? Imperialism is kinda cool but I’m more concerned about securing national sovereignty and the continued existence of my people. Isolationism, autarky etc. but absolutely exploiting resources of the historical American territories.
Ehh, this discussion really isn't getting anywhere. Packs are gambling, there's no way around it, we just don't want to admit it because we like the game.
It's not gambling because when you gamble there is a high chance you get nothing in return however when you buy a booster pack its guaranteed you will get 15 cards you can technically play with so you are getting something in return every single time
@@CJ-nd9gg Even with Lottery tickets, you could get nothing in return still, unlike Booster Packs, which, as Thedeads run stated, you still get something from every pack.
@@Thedeadsuns If for gambling or the lottery you were gauranteed to get 10% or even 90% of the money you put into it, does it make it less of gambling? It doesn't matter if it gives you something back or not, it's still made to be predatory and make you lose far more money than you can get back. Imagine if every lottery ticket was gauranteed to win $1. Are they suddenly no longer gambling?
This is where I get the majority of my magic content and news from keep up the good work and keep telling the truth no matter how much it might hurt some people
I think giving up on needing to be in the same room to record this is a great decision. It allows you to record more regularly, and episodes are less likely to become irrelevant as they sit in the queue waiting to be released. Now if only the RSS feed for the audio version would update regularly when new episodes come out, this would be my favorite MTG podcast.
I loved the Pulp Fiction style of this video. Show Vince’s death, then flashback to a time before he died to keep the audience guessing. I’ll miss him.
This is the first time I heard your real name. Honestly, it was kind of jarring to here Vince call you Brian. I'm still gonna call you Professor though.
I love the gambling aspect, if i gamble on slots , all my money is gone. With mtg its love and passion with the gambling aspect involved, and knowing you will retain some level of value in cards. I will say I'm addicted fully.
The gambling isn't the issue it's gambling involving minors which is where it becomes a legal issue. Additionally there maybe be specific taxes required around said product.
I can almost hear Spice8rack in the background screaming “down with the bourgeoisie” when they got into the anti-capitalism talk! Loved this episode guys and keep up the podcast!
Hahahahaha I am neither British nor a commie I just think Spice8rack is fucking hilarious and I thought he would have enjoyed the rant the professor went on! I am on nobody’s side and I hate everyone equally 😁
It certainly can be yes, however some people just open packs not really expecting monetary value, for others its more for the fun of opening those boosters or just to simply add cards to their collection at random too
See with lotto tickets the "fun" is tied to expecting money in return, card boosters dont INHERENTLY "win" you money, you get cards you opened then choose to sell afterwards
There's two issues that are worth pointing out that go beyond the video in my opinion. I think booster packs are probably fine because a pretty simple reason: you can still play magic as a game with your friends buying boosters- even if you can't afford fetchlands in the secondhand market! So it's still a usable product, just not one that gets you to a tournament. Plus draft is a whole format that will never be affected by the secondary market in this way because it's a fixed price going in no matter what. With those things in mind the cards bought in a randomized booster pack are still a game in and of themselves that can exist independently of the secondary market no matter how badly they mess everything up with secret lairs. The other thing is that you can technically play cards that are considered "worthless" and still win, because that's how people make new decks that then go on to become competitive in the format . . . and expensive. The metagame itself is only a fraction of the combination of cards that are physically possible and doesn't cover every possibility, and certainly not the possibilities where the goal is mainly to beat several main decks using very particular strategies. What the secondary market primarily does is reflect the metagame, but the metagame is not magic: the gathering and booster packs negligibly impact what decks people find valuable (especially considering how popular budget magic decks are, nevermind pauper)
Yes, I agree. I am confused by effusive discussions about people "needing" some card or another. Maybe competitive players feel that way, but (a) they don't actually need it, in the way that a racing driver needs a car. It's just preferable; and (b) there are many people who not competitive and definitely don't need those cards in any way. I played a game yesterday and neither of us had any remotely powerful cards. My deck was a bunch of crappy common merfolk that I got out of various boosters packs. And we were playing a game of magic!
Kill the secondary market please! Deck building paradise sounds amazing. Collection and trading be damned i'd rather play with cards then hoard them. This would even drop the value of the reserve list cards because the cards that you use with them would be worth so little that they would naturally lose value!
@@sulaimanhyatt-butt1453 Once cards are out of standard, you can buy from Hazbro directly for a number of years. Limit play set per customer and just dramatically increase the amount available. After a number of years when those cards are no longer in print, the secondary market can then try to make some profits when the supplies dwindle until they are reprinted. Honestly if Hasbro just bought their own printers and paper etc this could be a sustainable reality and we wouldn't have cards asking for double digit prices for cardboard.
I was working on a card game and my business model was a box set with all 100 cards from the set, and booster packs had cards to fill in your playsets, with packs being the only ways to get "bling" cards based on a sports card model; foils, alt arts, signed cards, artist proofs, textless, ect. So you could buy, say for $30, a single of each card from that set. The boosters are then for drafting or sealed, with the chase cards being the bling versions of carss everyone already has access to.
New Vince wasn't actually Regular Vince?? I noticed it only when his head started rolling away.
...I totally didn't think Vince was dead.
Nooooooo Wilson. LoL
I consume a lot lot of Magic content but I have to say that Dies to Removal is by far the most entertaining MTG show out there. Thank you guys so much for these!
Agree totally. Love Brian and Vince, and the chat is always entertaining
Man this opening sketch is amazing lmao
The body filled with basic plains lmao
LMAOOOOO
this has got to be my favorite one yet, besides maybe the "Dredge in our schools" one.
IT freakin is :D:D:D
Kept thinking. "Nooooo Wilson". LoL
57:27
For anyone that thinks the prof is a shill, he is obviously so passionate about creating an affordable and fun card game, how could you think that???
Jon Z i don’t know about “shill” but there’s definitely a section of players that are more invested in speculating on the market of magic card singles as well as sealed product, more so than they are in say, deck building or you know, playing the game. These are the type of “players” who would be very upset at reprints because it would “hurt the price” (read: remove the artificial scarcity) of their cards. Personally I think magic is a game and I think that speculation, mark-ups and the second hand markets ruin everything I love about the game by turning into a glorified lottery game with extra steps.
@@l4l01234 I don't think the second hand market actually ruins the game. If they started reprinting everything, a huge chunk of Wizards customers who just collect will simply stop, making LGSs/WOTC suffer. It's like an ecosystem where even the Jackals who speculate keeps the game interesting to even the ppl who don't play... I M O
@@l4l01234 i am not an investor in magic in any way shape or form... i play standard and when its about to rotate sell all but 1 copy of my cards to keep for commander... but the thought of everything getting reprinted down to pennies horrifies me. me and a lot of other people have thousands invested into the game and while i do not see this as an investment in any way the thought of my decks values going down to nothing would be a huge slap in the face.
People throw the word shill around a lot on youtube. Most don't know what it means, and I wouldn't worry about it.
@@inoshikachokonoyarobakayar2493 that's the issue: pandering to people who don't play the game at the cost of people who actually keep the game alive
“Oh Vince, there’s just no replacing you - at least not yet...”
*ominous music plays*
Well, at least we know that the next silver border expansion should be Un-ethical
Nice
chefs kiss.
AHAHAHA
silver border? oh, you're so naive, person from the past :p
This makeup tutorial pro tip style guide was incredibly amazing helpful useful. Thank you, this is a human.
I concur fellow human, I too enjoyed this [CONTENT] video.
Here's an idea that wotc won't ever implement: drop collector boosters, replace it with a collector box: it contains a playset of every card in the set. Sell it for $200 or $300. Then draft boosters aren't gambling, because everything is easily accessible. And draft booster boxes are still the cheaper option.
The only issue with this is the collectors might not care anymore since they can just buy every single new card all at once.
Then wouldn’t it be more like those dumb “LCG” games?
This is a comment. It is beneficial to the RUclips algorithms.
If I reply to your comment am I also equally contributing or should I make a comment of my own?
Engaging.
makeup tutorial, makeup tutorial
MVP
Me too
"Just reprint the goddamn cards!"
-Prof 2020
2013-2020
Old games: only $60 and are complete
New games: $70 with gambling not full games etc...
Vince bringing up Horse Armor "DLC" from Oblivion, brings back the memories.
#nostalgia
The good ole days
Oblivion came out in 2006. How old would Vince have been that he is remembering this from? 8 years old?
@@QuestionMarc damn the dudes that young lol
It was the first big purely cosmetic content you could buy. It was the moment where expansions packs died.
"Lootboxes first appeared in Overwatch"
Excuse me, but crates existed in TF2 long before that. I remember getting issue#1 crate about 11 years ago.
That long for TF2 and it's still popular?
They first appeared long before overwatch, but overwatch is responsible for how mainstream they are.
Aye, and even if we ignore TF2, there were tons of Mobile Gatcha games that had a lootbox system since forever. That was long before Overwatch.
TF2 was a game saved by lootboxes, but Overwatch was the first to be marred by them.
When TF2 introduced loot boxes it was because it went from asking for $20 upfront to being free to play with the new lootbox system. This was celebrated because it revived the then 5-year-old title, increased its overall profits AND its playerbase.
When Overwatch had their lootboxes it was on top of an already full price game. People complained about getting nothing but stickers and wallsprays, and also not being able to buy the skins you want. The system purposely made drop rates hidden and low.
Yeah but Vince was like 10 years old back then so we shouldn’t expect him to know about TF2 lol
I love the openings to this series.
Best option to avoid randomness would be sell the whole sets, 1 of each card for a specific cost, the same for each set (varying by number of cards only), then it would be like any other game, in theory. (obviously not gonna happen, because money from the randomness, it's much easier to sell a lot of cheap products than one more expensive too)
And keep boosters for draft.
You could sell sets of lands, green cards, red cards ect. Sell singles. Sell decks. Sell randomized packs for drafting but the whole box contents are standardized.
Seems like you described how i play dis game. Buy singles only and use boosters only to draft.
You just described a living card game like Game of Thrones with a drafting option. Not a bad idea, but highly unlikely Wizards would ever turn off the money machine.
I agree, especially on Arena where it would be easy for WOTC to set it up. I buy full common sets off ebay for $8-15 and am never unhappy with them, especially if you're a casual player looking to get into Pauper/Peasant like myself. That said I love opening booster packs though - it's fine so long as you temper expectations and are looking to build casual decks. If I can make 10-25% of my money back by selling obnoxious cards to the competitives/set collectors then I'm happy enough.
I think what you're missing is that certain cards will be better than others and therefore will be more desirable. Then those cards will be sold on a secondary market
"I gave out begrudging 'A's"
Oof. Sounds like some of my high school teachers talking about some of my friends' papers.
Sounds like some of my professors when they had to curve exams.
Wait, are the products athletes?
*Finds out that MtG might be having a legal battle with other countries*
"Let them fight"
The Secret Lair: Fetchlands product just proves that I'll be proxying fetchlands forever.
my rule of thumb in my playgroup is just proxy it with a card that does a really similar effect. Can't afford a time twister? use days undoing and just let everyone know.
#proxyfetchlands
Proxy Power!
Proxy’s are cheating in my opinion because everyone else has to pay for the cards. It makes sense if you actually own the card and you just want a cool art or something.
@@tylerbulmer9415 or we just want to play the game without getting broke... like it's intended by Richard Garfield
This entire time I sit here and am thinking "wait... what was deluxe edition" only to remember what wizards pulled in that throne of eldraine deluxe edition.
Simply put, there is just SOOO many products and stuff like the deluxe edition simply slips through the mind of consumers because there is a bombardment of endless products at various price points.
I love the discussions you have with Pleasant Kenobi! I just wish he had a RUclips channel... 😟
@Josué De Leon-Mayeu you got a link to his channel?
@Josué De Leon-Mayeu r/whooosh'd
Josué De Leon-Mayeu you are being whooshed. He’s name dropping him.
I think both of them said it more than two or three times: There is only one reason to buy boosters: Draft. Otherwise they are not worth it.
The sense of excitement I get just before I crack a pack that I could get a card that at best is worth some money, at worst landfill, but most likely something to put in my trade binder for commander or bulk sale.
I buy boxes just to crack packs like the people who buy scratch tickets to use the winnings to buy more scratch tickets
... when you buy a single, you just paid someone else to open draft packs for you. The problem I always have with this argument (as someone that only buys events/singles) is that there is no other option to receive the cards I desire other than to open draft packs (myself or via someone else). The only way they print cards is in packs.
Buying a booster box, chilling some beer and running a draft with friends is genuinely one of the greatest joys in my life.
@@alexbutler8930 I hope you drink the beer after chilling it!
It is gambling and no different than loot boxes in videogames. Tarmogoyf receiving an upgrade because of secondary market value is but one example of Wizards clearly placing a monetary value in the cards we find in booster packs. Sensei's Diving Top is a rare nowadays, and so is Mystical Tutor.
I would argue, and I'm very surprised they skimmed over this point, that it's analogous to the worst kind of loot boxes (the pay to win model). You're not only gambling to get a cosmetic upgrade for the game you've already paid for, you're gambling to be able to continue to play the game you've bought into, and you're gambling to be able to have a better chance at performing well in that game. It's an incredibly manipulative and coercive business model, and when I worked at an LGS, I often felt more like a drug pusher than a retail employee.
This was really good. You guys dug deep on this one.
I really appreciate Prof's honesty in regards to being hooked on mtg when he 1st started out. (No shame man)
On the topic of shame though, about that Sims 3 Prius...
GREAT episode! Seeing the professor losing his collective “stuff” made the whole video worth it. Plus a great discussion.
Prof: "I have a bridge to sell you." Me: "Is it a bridge from below?"
I hope its an ensnaring bridge, I need one of those.
And god created human life from the loam
This comment is still underrated as fuck. Where is the professor's A+ on this material?!?!?
@@DarkX64 its a year later and it's still under rated.
They've already acknowledged the secondary market through using "reprint equity" to determine what cards to reprint, as they do with things like Masters sets, and now secret lairs.
It's annoying, in this day and age, that anyone or any company can "legitimately" feign the idea that they aren't aware of something they could google in seconds.
@@bobby45825 Imagine they got to court over something (anything, really) and expert witness there by-the-way estabilished that card indeed do have value on secondary markets.
They could no longer pretend that they are not aware of cash value of cards, right?
The reprint equity theory wasn't a WotC employee or an official WotC release. It's almost certainly true, but not something they've ever officially acknowledged.
In the secret lair mythic they said something along the lines of "our financing team determined this is the optimal price"
And how the hell does it not count as acknowledging the secondary market to work with, or talk about the Reserve List, and especially with their goddammed insistence on expanding the already arbitrary scope of "the spirit of the RL" as an excuse to not do some things?
Having watched the whole thing, I'm surprised that neither of them really mentioned that the idea that Booster packs facilitate limited formats as they currently exist. The idea of say, draft, is dependent on having a limited pool of cards that you can't predict before hand. While certainly people open packs for many other reasons, I'm surprised they didn't even bring this up during their discussion of why packs getting outlawed as gambling would be bad for the game. But I think it's relevant as a point to show that packs actually serve to create interesting formats and strategic opportunities and don't solely serve as a type of gambling.
Draft is the ONLY legal foot wotc has to stand on imo that booster/draft packs are not gambling.
Living card games like net runner actually have draft packs too. They're just not lottery tickets.
Yeah, but is it really so integral to Draft that the cards need to be perfectly random from a given set? Hasn't the multitude of Cube sets out there proven that you don't need the booster pack to have an ideal draft experience?
None of that requires WotC to sell the packs.
You act like the cards are only good for one game then you gotta throw em out. People really be shuffling cards for years of their life and then pretending like opening up a fresh pack is the only way to introduce randomness to cards.
Before watching, DUH. Yes it is gambling. A specific kind of gambling to be sure, but its the same concept as "surprise mechanics".
Yep, and I like that the core of their argument is that they like this game more then the other, so it isn't gambling.
@@hesharu That's not the core of their argument. Their argument is that not all gambling is the same.
I love going back and rewatching these. Watching a year or two later obviously means they're no longer topical, but god they're still entertaining.
They brand boosters as “draft packs” for a reason
Yes they brand them draft packs now because with additon of collector boosters there is no real value in them. Just look at the EV of Ikoria booster box. Because there is certain amount of people who will always crack for value, why not sell them booster boxes that are five times more expensive now. Collector boosters are just a way to monetize this thirst for shiny rare cards even harder.
@@matejkotz6059 I mean... EV of regular Ikoria boxes is where it is right now due to supply being higher than it has ever been. Couple that with, presumably, a lesser demand thanks to current economic/social conditions as well as the fact that, comparatively, you don't get as many shiny things as the collector's boosters, you get the kind of scenario we're in now. Don't be surprised when regular boxes climb back up though.
They're also called draft packs because they now have themed booster packs.
And when you "draft", you're essentially picking your "team". 😂
Also the Draft Pack is a game piece for a specific format (at least for physical Magic). That is the only reason why I would say they are not the same as loot boxes. Boosters on Arena are absolutely loot boxes.
Silly me thought that the opening skits would be put on hold, but that was the best one yet. Actually had me laughing out loud
I am currently stockpiling one of every pack released in the Modern era to open on my birthday in August. Is it dumb? Maybe. Will I lose out financially? Absolutely. Will I have the best damn birthday getting to experience the history of the past 17 years in MtG's life? No friggin doubt about it.
That sounds awesome, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise 👍
Damn have the patience of a saint.
DO IT. Have fun. I may do that too
And that is a healthy attitude toward a little bit of gambling. Have a great birthday!
Just keep them and open them on your deathbed
Man prof almost said “the means of production” and I just about pulled out my hammer and sickle
AmateurThespian I still fail to realize how people like you think communism could work
@@brandondrake4609 I still fail to realize how anyone thinks capitalism is working
@AmateurThespian Capitalism won't throw you in a gulag for insulting the great leader. Couple that with putting people that love 'moral outrage' and preaching on a pedastle?
What the fuck could go wrong, comrade?
@AmateurThespian If I were you I would compare the United States and places to places like China, Russia and Venezuela. People can come on here and say things like that because they live in a free country where you can worry about first world problems. People take for granted how good they have it constantly.
AmateurThespian MtG wouldn't be possible without capitalism.
"tolaria east, he never stops role playing"
"They'd reprint aggressively to destroy the secondary market. They'd reprint fetchlands at common"
Man, don't let Rudy from Alpha Investment watch this. He'll get diarrhea.
Rudy is all about the reserved list
Alpha investments needs to die in a hole with rest of the "collectors" aka scalpers that are killing mtg
@@hydrainfernos9081 the magic "investing" community has a right to exist and are an important part of what makes the game work.
The problem is Wizards operates in a manner that let's them run wild.
@@firekram Please explain how they are required for the game? They just drive up prices, don't they?
What the fuck does Rudy have anything to do with this? If he could still move product and create a profit margin he would. He invests in the reserved list for a reason. People that irrationally hate MTG Investors are morons. They aren't the ones actively hurting the modern game. WotC is doing that on their own.
Hi Prof! You always have such insightful thoughts on MTG, and every time I see a new video from you I watch it while I go through my collection and build a new deck or just look through my old cards. It's a good feeling to have during this time, and I can't wait to get back to playing paper magic again with my friends
Ahhh the secondary market, or as I like to call it: primary market.
I call it "fuck drafts and standard I'll single buy the commander deck"
WOTC need to sit down in a room and watch this video, then take a long, good look at themselves in the mirror and really, really think about what they’re doing.
Great video guys
corporations don't elect to self-regulate themselves out of making money. It's the players who need to sit down and think about what products they're financially supporting.
Hey prof, I was wondering if in next episodes you could explore how WotC suddenly has developed an antagonistic relationship with their enfranchised players.
raising the power creep of standard, Modern Horizons, huge stinginess of reprints outside the RL, game changing stuff like companions, killing legacy for modern and now killing modern for pioneer...these are all measures to combat people playing the same old deck for years without (barely) spending money on new cards.
It used to be part of the healthy relationship between players and wotc, an unwritten agreement that if you played mtg long enough you would build a collection of cards, and you'd have formats to enjoy them after rotation. that was your reward for being a loyal and faithful customer, having the option of opting out of the standard hamster wheel for some time (or forever) if thats what you wanted.
But seems like WotC are trying to change the rules of the game , and force enfranchised players to either get back on the wheel of spending or leave by making increasingly difficult to enjoy older formats without keeping up to date.
if you told people that after rotation all their cards are shit and worthless and their decks are gone for good, noone would buy into mtg. the idea of (some of) them remaining relevant and playable in older formats were the carrot at the end of the stick, one that wotc supported for a long time.
This days everything is a rotating format on quarterly basis, and worse, old cards get bans so new cards can remain unbanned.
isnt what wotc is doing now betraying the very foundations of the game and reneging on their tacit gentlemen's agreement with enfranchised players?
and that's why you play with your friends / formats that don't expire
standard is terrible in that regard but it's not like it's our only option for playing with our cards
Still waiting for the “Sword of-“ Secret Lair for $279
Bold of you to assume that secret lair edition would be that cheap.
“For about the price of two commander anthologies” probably
Probably once all 10 "Swords of" exist.
Prof, the skits are killing it every time! I don't know who comes up with them but kudos!
Alternate title: how the profit motive ruins games
No you can't just print enough cards for everyone who wants to play
Haha money machine go brrr
How would you propose wizards release cards instead? Not being snarky, genuine question. Have you looked at the fantasy flight living card game model at all perhaps? Or do you have issues with that too?
@@Tails7777 While I am not @Izzet Right? - Magic: the Gathering for Beginners, I think he was talking about the profit motive in general. He appeared to be more pointing out a problem with the system rather than a problem with WOTC in specific. There is no real way of getting around the profit motive under Capitalism, so no solution can be provided while still being for-profit. Also, I know nothing about fantasy flight, what is there game model?
@@Tails7777 we all need to make money of course but a lot of companies are not longer happy with making money, they want ALL the money. It's also our fault as consumers for continuing to support these practices. Like we can complain about call of duty and bad DLC but if people weren't buying it, they wouldn't be doing it
@@mariarandazzo9739 Yeah as dragonruler said basically the cards game are sold in sealed product that contain every single card in that set. So there is the core set that will contain the entire core element of the game. If it was magic it would 30 of each basic land and 4 copies of all cards in their core set, then when a set comes out the set contains again playsets of all cards. So you never need to buy more than 1 of each expansion, and you know exactly what you are getting when you buy it. I honestly would love to see magic have this as a affordable option as well as boosters. As I both love constructed formats and limited formats.
There is a reason why the boosters are now called "draft boosters" and it's not to avoid confusion with collector boosters - this way they say "this product we sell is a gameplay experience, not a loot box".
That may be true but WotC's own messaging doesn't support that assumption. In the Booster Fun article where MaRo revealed the existence of Collectors Boosters is also where they announced the new Draft Booster name and yes it was to denote that they are for drafting it was only necessitated to delineate that Collector's boosters AREN'T for drafting as well as to lower confusion between the products. Ergo, they exist solely for cardboard gambling and are in fact loot boxes. If anything legally brings down WotC it'll be Collector's Boosters and Secret Lair's not draft boosters but at the same time if it wasn't for Collector's boosters draft boosters would've never changed their name.
From the perspective of someone who just opens packs during draft and prerelease, and as a budget player, cracking packs being gambling is a matter of intent and expectation. Most of the cards I want from a set are the spicy uncommons. Since I'm a budget player I don't really get beat up if I don't open them in a pack because chances are they'll be $0.75 at the most for me to pick up a few days down the road from prerelease, or even later that night if I'm drafting. Cracking assets $25 Mythic is gravy for someone like me.
If people who open booster boxes for Value I think in this respect across your booster box game videos are closest to the idea of packs being gambling.
Well done discussion guys! Usually I just lurk, but I had opinions and thought I'd share.
I love gravy!
the problem is't u or our class, but the ppl who is in here for profit, rather grinder of tournaments who need the cards or the investors, no shame on mtg finance, but the problem as they say wouldn't exist if anybody could do just what u said: "if i don't open it, i get if for dirt cheap later". they have just increasingly worsen the problem by not solving the availability of cards, since that's the main driver of prices, poweful cards are bought and thus become less available
Booster packs have always walked the find line of being gambling. Not even just with magic, other card games have this problem but I don't see the future in which booster packs will be outlawed
*fine line
I see a future in which booster packs are regulated. Hasbro might have too much lobbying influence in the United States but elsewhere, especially in Europe, organizations are already cracking down on MTG mainly for tournaments but still, packs could be next.
Lmfao this opening skit is opening is gold. Great work guys.
Completely agree with the wise sage Professor.
Gambling can be fun. That’s the whole point of a collectible card game. But when it becomes exploitative, through short printing and artificial scarcity, it crosses a line. And gaming companies have to be held accountable for this misconduct.
It's funny you're talking about addiction when I've just uninstalled Magic Arena from all my computers since I've realized I was addicted to it. I didn't like how tilted I got after strings of losses. It was so hard to do it after having invested time and money in the client, but I suppose it was the right thing to do. Maybe I'll come back after a good break.
To me magic is better played with friends or in physical events :)
That's a big same from me. I started netdecking tier 1 decks just to be able to play and wasn't having fun. I'm now playing minecraft again with friends and its fantastic. One day I'll return to arena but it will be at least a few months of break time.
This video is extremely important. WotC heeding your advice would improve Magic forever. Please don’t ever give up the fight, Professor
I'll say this if I could buy cards direct from wizards I would never crack packs again. The only way to "play" the game is to either but packs or buy singles from a secondary market. Card packs are exactly like loot boxes
You two expressed pretty much every concern I've had (and expressed myself) for years about WotC, MtG, Arena, loot boxes, gambling, and gaming monetization models perfectly.
56:50 Prof goes into a rage I that is (nearly) equivalent to the rage I feel every time I think about MTG from an economic stand point. They make money from a total of 1 thing: packs (and Secret Lairs now, but you know... oh yeah, and cosmetics, but, you get it!) what's the best way to make it so that packs start selling like they did back in Alpha? reprint reprint reprint until packs aren't a gamble at all and now everyone goes "Well, okay, 4 bucks 4 bucks!" I love cracking packs, but I always feel very dissapointed in myself when I turn $4 into 30 cents. This would fix that mindset perfectly because I would know that I am burning $4 here most likely, but hey, it's fun as all hell!
Exactly! I would definitely buy more booster packs if I had a chance of always getting something amazing. Wizards kinda leaned into that with Mystery Boosters, I loved those!
Fantastic episode like always. You two have great chemistry and it seems like you both have such fun shooting these. It really shines through:)
Having my eyes opened to all of this genuinely makes me want to cry
Here’s my take (I’m just a fan of video games and MTG so take it for what it’s worth). Are booster packs gambling? Yes. Does that mean MTG is morally bankrupt? No. It’s gambling because you are always buying them hoping for that one card you want. It’s not morally bankrupt though because they don’t prevent us from having a thriving secondary market. Most video games definitely prevent us from trading skins and whatever else, forcing us to buy the lootbox to get what we want. That’s what makes it morally bankrupt and makes it very predatory, is when the developer/publisher or the manufacturer of the thing FORCES people down this particularly predatory path to get what we want. For a good example of a game that DOES provide and encourage a secondary market look at Warframe. MTG does the same, as long as they let us do this then they aren’t morally bankrupt. And for people who say predatory micro transactions are fine if they’re cosmetic I encourage you to consider two things. First, if you were buying any other product and this was how the system was set up would you accept that as a fair and worthwhile way to do business? And second I encourage you to watch this video by Favyn here on YT ruclips.net/video/H0aOY4Ex0Fg/видео.html it explains why and how micro transactions cheeped games by removing the options to better the game with customization and cosmetics.
Good call.
Would love to have an option to hear it on spotify.
It's where all the cool podcasts are, I hear
@@CJ-nd9gg I like to listen to music, podcasts when I'm walking to work. It's less data consuming if You stream only sound. I know that some of the jokes won't work.
@@wypadkowaprzypadku i just use a regular podcast app. A lot of creators don't go through the trouble of adding it to spotify. I think it's fine, there's a million different app options for you to listen to podcasts.
This game does not live because of, but despite wotc's business decisions. What carries this great game is people giving out free cards to fellow players and content creators like both of you.
Prof., your videos brought me back to magic, and I've been enjoying the experience ever since. Thank you!
>Discussion on whether mtg booster packs is gambling
you wot m8, of course it is
I really love the report you two have with each other. I don't normally like this type of format, though most of my exposure to it is from here and from video about other topics (video games come to mind) and there is just something about the way you speak to each other and by extension us, that makes this work. It is certainly filled with arcane termonology but in a way that is paradoxically welcoming I feel, and just the general tone and mood really shows a level of humility that I feel is lacking elsewere. you both are presenting yourselves as experts with knowledge on the topic without presenting yourself as THE expert if that makes sense and I really appriceate that.
Magic and gambling? Are they finally bringing back ante? Yes! I already have the deck ready.
4 Contracts eh?
Isao Black of course, most powerful card in the game, 1 mana draw 7, who cares about the card you put in ante.
I just got past the intro and felt I had to comment. These intros and videos are literally my favorite thing to watch on RUclips. Thanks for the awesome content!!
57:30 I feel so much better now that some one else has said this... it felt weird hearing such silence from our media personalities about something so obvious as reprints... imconvinced they only really need to make lands cheap as free too... thnx again for your dedication to the game
One thing that you said has been stuck in my head for the past few weeks. MTG is scarcity marketing plain and simple. WotC knows damn well if they print a mythical that will rock the socks off of one or multiple formats it will be worth $20+ right out of the pack. The less number of a valuable card, the more the card will be worth. WotC are fully capable of printing a card and for the most part setting the value of it (the meta will change but a bomb is a bomb and if there are only X number of them the price will reflect it).
50:00 I believe the word you’re looking for is extortion.
You reminded me of tournament packs. We each used to get one, plus a couple of boosters, and hold "events" in between classes. We even used to "help" unlucky players that ended with sub-par records by allowing them to get more boosters, in what was a "Sealed league" most stores would be doing. Such amazing times.
Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards! Just Reprint the Damn Cards!
Now I want a video where this is all that's in it.
I love this episode, this is something that has been on my mind since project 'booster fun' when alarm bells went off.
Though I have to ask, where is the discussion for collector boosters!
The difference between draft boosters and collector boosters is in the name.
Draft boosters are partial defendable since they are for playing with, collector boosters are for.. gambling?
The look on the prof's face when real Vince starts to vent is just pure gold lol
the start of this episode was genuinely funny. Well done! Keep up the good work, always appreciate your videos.
"That sounds like loot boxes with extra steps"...eek barbadurlkle somebody's gonna laid in college
Underrated comment
10/10 my friend
My argument is; how can they possibly deny that there’s a secondary market, AND still have the Reserved List? A collection of cards they promise not to reprint only because they hold monetary value???
"JUST REPRINT THE GOD DAMN CARDS!!!" ❤️ 🙌 😭 🤷
#proxyfetchlands
Bro my jaw dropped.
Prof, in the last DTR episode, you asked if we'd be interested in you continuing the show. I commented and said yes, provided it has good quality. I was thinking clear sound and clean video, but you went above and beyond. That intro was MINT!
PS: you're the first MTG youtuber I ever subscribed to. You taught me how to make a proper commander deck. Without you're help, I would've never drawn hate from my playgroup. It felt good(:
Prof, the word you're looking for fifty minutes in is 'avaricious.'
Also, they did it because they knew that people would buy both the Mythic Edition and then just as many boosters looking for regular fetches.
Communist gamer :p
At the end of the game, do you shoot the winner, and declare yourself the leader of a glorious new game, where everyone wins under your leadership?
@@CJ-nd9gg You have some strange ideas about what communism is, friend. Not that that isn't to be expected, with all the propaganda that's been going around since the start of the Cold War. By the way, that's the anarcho-communist flag in their avatar, so....
Get in the gulag, degenerate bourgeois wannabe-commies.
@@ryanr5139 Said the tankie that wouldn't know imperialism if it shoved a CCP rifle down his throught. You're fun.
TheCommunistGamer what does that even mean? Imperialism is kinda cool but I’m more concerned about securing national sovereignty and the continued existence of my people. Isolationism, autarky etc. but absolutely exploiting resources of the historical American territories.
57:05 this is why we love the professor. This podcast is awesome.
Ehh, this discussion really isn't getting anywhere. Packs are gambling, there's no way around it, we just don't want to admit it because we like the game.
It's not gambling because when you gamble there is a high chance you get nothing in return however when you buy a booster pack its guaranteed you will get 15 cards you can technically play with so you are getting something in return every single time
Thedeadsun that kinda like saying gambling isn't gambling. I mean, you get to keep the piece of paper, right? :p
Just to add: you could technicly also play with a lottery tickey.
@@CJ-nd9gg Even with Lottery tickets, you could get nothing in return still, unlike Booster Packs, which, as Thedeads run stated, you still get something from every pack.
@@Thedeadsuns
If for gambling or the lottery you were gauranteed to get 10% or even 90% of the money you put into it, does it make it less of gambling? It doesn't matter if it gives you something back or not, it's still made to be predatory and make you lose far more money than you can get back.
Imagine if every lottery ticket was gauranteed to win $1. Are they suddenly no longer gambling?
This is where I get the majority of my magic content and news from keep up the good work and keep telling the truth no matter how much it might hurt some people
This just in; Hasbro announces mtg packs as "surprise game mechanics"!
I think giving up on needing to be in the same room to record this is a great decision. It allows you to record more regularly, and episodes are less likely to become irrelevant as they sit in the queue waiting to be released. Now if only the RSS feed for the audio version would update regularly when new episodes come out, this would be my favorite MTG podcast.
Magic is gambling. No two ways about it. I had to quit buying packs because I was getting addicted and was making really bad financial decisions.
This was probably one of y'all's best videos ever. Both you guys are really accurately pointing out how at risk the game is from what WOTC is doing.
I think it'll be Secret Lair: Snow-Covered Dual Lands
I loved the Pulp Fiction style of this video. Show Vince’s death, then flashback to a time before he died to keep the audience guessing. I’ll miss him.
Brian had a brain spark! While under his rock playing Sims XD
He's awesome
Magic The Gathering Secret Lair: Acknowledging the Secondary Market featuring the Power 9
For the price of a new car. Or two.
@@caioo08 or for a price of us paying for the fine they might get if the feds do decide to investigate
I appreciate this conversation. It's good to have.
This is the first time I heard your real name. Honestly, it was kind of jarring to here Vince call you Brian. I'm still gonna call you Professor though.
I love the gambling aspect, if i gamble on slots , all my money is gone. With mtg its love and passion with the gambling aspect involved, and knowing you will retain some level of value in cards. I will say I'm addicted fully.
The gambling isn't the issue it's gambling involving minors which is where it becomes a legal issue. Additionally there maybe be specific taxes required around said product.
It's kinda screwed even when it preys on adults, IMO.
I honestly enjoyed this just as much as when you were both in the same room! Great job!
I mean Gambling is fine. Just so long you spend at Kaiba Corp. Remember spending your money at Kaiba Corp is that way to go.
the community is blessed to have you two
I can almost hear Spice8rack in the background screaming “down with the bourgeoisie” when they got into the anti-capitalism talk! Loved this episode guys and keep up the podcast!
Hahahahaha I am neither British nor a commie I just think Spice8rack is fucking hilarious and I thought he would have enjoyed the rant the professor went on! I am on nobody’s side and I hate everyone equally 😁
Man, that cinematic editing is just awesome!
In short, yes it is gambling. Just like loot boxes are and sitting in front a machine to get luck 777 is.
You won‘t get 777 with Standard displays though. Those are pennies.
You have to go to big modern or legacy league if you want lucky 777 ;)
It certainly can be yes, however some people just open packs not really expecting monetary value, for others its more for the fun of opening those boosters or just to simply add cards to their collection at random too
There's important caveats here to be mentioned
See with lotto tickets the "fun" is tied to expecting money in return, card boosters dont INHERENTLY "win" you money, you get cards you opened then choose to sell afterwards
There's two issues that are worth pointing out that go beyond the video in my opinion. I think booster packs are probably fine because a pretty simple reason: you can still play magic as a game with your friends buying boosters- even if you can't afford fetchlands in the secondhand market! So it's still a usable product, just not one that gets you to a tournament. Plus draft is a whole format that will never be affected by the secondary market in this way because it's a fixed price going in no matter what. With those things in mind the cards bought in a randomized booster pack are still a game in and of themselves that can exist independently of the secondary market no matter how badly they mess everything up with secret lairs.
The other thing is that you can technically play cards that are considered "worthless" and still win, because that's how people make new decks that then go on to become competitive in the format . . . and expensive. The metagame itself is only a fraction of the combination of cards that are physically possible and doesn't cover every possibility, and certainly not the possibilities where the goal is mainly to beat several main decks using very particular strategies. What the secondary market primarily does is reflect the metagame, but the metagame is not magic: the gathering and booster packs negligibly impact what decks people find valuable (especially considering how popular budget magic decks are, nevermind pauper)
Yes, I agree. I am confused by effusive discussions about people "needing" some card or another. Maybe competitive players feel that way, but (a) they don't actually need it, in the way that a racing driver needs a car. It's just preferable; and (b) there are many people who not competitive and definitely don't need those cards in any way. I played a game yesterday and neither of us had any remotely powerful cards. My deck was a bunch of crappy common merfolk that I got out of various boosters packs. And we were playing a game of magic!
"Bloody Tories 😂
The openings for these podcasts are the greatest and today's was... the absolute best by far!
Kill the secondary market please! Deck building paradise sounds amazing. Collection and trading be damned i'd rather play with cards then hoard them. This would even drop the value of the reserve list cards because the cards that you use with them would be worth so little that they would naturally lose value!
Then what about people who want to aquire singles they want?
@@sulaimanhyatt-butt1453 Once cards are out of standard, you can buy from Hazbro directly for a number of years. Limit play set per customer and just dramatically increase the amount available. After a number of years when those cards are no longer in print, the secondary market can then try to make some profits when the supplies dwindle until they are reprinted.
Honestly if Hasbro just bought their own printers and paper etc this could be a sustainable reality and we wouldn't have cards asking for double digit prices for cardboard.
I was working on a card game and my business model was a box set with all 100 cards from the set, and booster packs had cards to fill in your playsets, with packs being the only ways to get "bling" cards based on a sports card model; foils, alt arts, signed cards, artist proofs, textless, ect.
So you could buy, say for $30, a single of each card from that set. The boosters are then for drafting or sealed, with the chase cards being the bling versions of carss everyone already has access to.
Fair
Finally! Someone is finally talking about ante! Bring back ante you cowards!
Also, MtG was mathematically designed to be addictive.