A few things. This is not using any of the newly changed TLV talents Ectar said he still needs to test them. Ectar also tied for first with DKunleashed which he will have a different video soon.
My problem with the TLV is that Jump is pretty much a must-have but I really like/prefer the Burning Olaf for split pushing.. If they did at least slightly better job at spreading out the talent tree less impactfully on such basic mechanics think they'd be played some/more maybe :)
Paradox, I can't tell you how happy I am that you're continuing to make such quality Heroes content on such a regular basis. What with the already fearsome population of Heroes doomsayers proliferating more and more by the day, it makes me happy to know there's people like you who continue to promote a thriving community of positivity around my favorite game.
Another easy use of command queue for vikings, right click the mage minion, shift+movement command on top of the mage (you have to bind it yourself, I use G key), then shift+A key (attack move) to a safe point, such as a bush in a long lane or your fort. This only takes a second extra, and it ensures your viking will kill the mage first, grab the globe, then attack the nearest minion until all minions are dead then walk to the safe spot you picked. Since you have to swap around a lot anyways it's mostly useful when you want to focus on something with one or two vikings for a bit, so that you don't accidentally leave a viking in a bad spot while, for instance, microing two vikings in a team fight, or sneaking a camp/objective. Sometimes if the enemy don't harass your vikings you can do this lane by lane so you have more time to observe things, but if they don't you won anyways.
Queue commands are something that every player should get used to doing, not just Vikings players. - Mount-up, queue your next movement so you start moving immediately with no risk of canceling the mount. - Head to a fountain, queue-up your next location so you start moving as soon as you've grabbed a sip. - If you want to poke a character with an ability (say KT Living Bomb) and fall back, use the ability and queue somewhere safe. You'll hit them with the ability and immediately start falling back to safety. - Start channeling an objective, and if you think it'll be contested, queue a movement to safety so you fallback as soon as the enemy pokes you; alternatively, you can queue-up mounting, then queue-up movement so that you can mount-up and get to your next location the instant your channel is done. And that's just four examples off the top of my head. IMO, every HotS player who's looking to climb the ladder should get used to queue commands to give them just a little bit more of an edge.
Knew all of this except the last one. I normally try to be predictive and hyper aware of where the enemy is and dodge thier interrupts. However, the value of 4 is still high.
Great informative video! I'd like to add that map awareness is one of the major tip for TLV, if not the major one. In the video, we can see when Ectar decides to channel an objective/push a line harder/grab a mercenary camp, and when he doesn't. The opposing team's Genji was designated TLV hunter, and even if Ectar lost some of his vikings to Genji, he was near/under his towers' fire. We can say that it's the same for all Heroes, but playing TLV needs to check the map & decide for 3 characters rather than one. Otherwise, the TLV player will be spending their time dying and queuing their TLVs from base to their lanes for the entire game. Awesome replay, and maybe one last thing: I think during the last parts of the HGC, TLV is actually a strong counter to Abathur, as a double soaking Abathur with a 4 man single lane is less strong than it's TLV counterpart.
Ryan DeArmond I’ve tried using shift command for the past 20 days and I for some reason work better off of not using it (I am a Vikings main) but I guess it’s because I’ve gotten this far without it so it’d hinder me because I’d need to change a lot
@@BradWaltz Yeah, as an Abby player that's had to go against TLV a few times, I can confirm that this is very effective. TLV player typically assumes you're not paying attention rather than that it's a trap, but they _usually_ learn _eventually_ and instead signal to one of their teammates.
I press the buttons 2 times too to get my camera to the different vikings, because I tried using space and it isn't very effective. Sometimes you hit the number of the viking and space so fast that the camera will stay on the previous viking and I found it very annoying.
Are you guys using the minimap to send TLV around? I normally have "click through minimap" activated, but with TLV I think about using the minimap for some larger move commands. @NotParadox Great video and tips! Thank you!
How do you know when Olafs charge stun(16 talents) is off CD? I struggle trying to time this cause i still havent found when its ready to re use in a fight.
ok, i have to ask, why does it matter to 3 lane with tlv? if there is people in mid, won't the people in mid be getting the exp combined then? i personally use 2 lane's while tlv because 1 lane to soak (usually take spy games as level 1 talent and let one sit there and passively gather exp), then take 2 and sit and soak bottom. don't understand why tlv needs to 3 lane because there is people nearly always in mid. i could see 3 lane during objective if you don't combine during objective.
I think that ideally 4-man would be always circulating and gawk their solo laner(s) so you would have an "extra" viking but it's only for a while. I personally always take my viking away from lane when I notice that 4-man are getting ahead and pushing hard. So it's like Erik can go bribe or Baleog and Olaf can take a hard camp
Just a little tagging thing; do you have 'the lost vikings' or 'lost vikings' in this video's tags? Because searching youtube for 'NotParadox Lost Vikings' doesn't bring this up.
never really know 'shift command' is aviable in any moba game x) too much lol i guess (as far as i know, there is no shiftcommand, at least there wasn't when i checked it last time) and before you ask - i use it when playing RTS games and i'm well aware of such mechanic, just didn't realise it's a thing in moba
TLV Were really amazing to play in a MOBA. its too bad I don't play hots anymore after all the crap that happened.. Sorry it happened brother ur channel was growing like crazy
@@NanocDark99 ya I just made a smurf for shorter que times and started playing again.. hots is great I was pretty mad about the announcement tho. Like people were leaving league for hots until that
Paradox, on videos like this with several points of interest, could you please timestamp the different points? It's very hard to find the different points, and I personally am not one with enough patience to watch 23 minutes straight.
I think it would be a huge improvement if during the interval you switch the active Viking, the inactive ones get controlled by AI and prioritize getting the globe, if possible.
That would make TLV waaaaaay too strong if that were the case. It would also kind of defeat the purpose of them being a high-skill cap hero. Part of the balance behind the vikings is that you have to split your focus between the three of them. I also don't think it would really fix the key issue for them, which is that they're not great for every map (particularly 2-lane maps). That part just comes from their wonky mix of stats and abilities. Likewise, their talent tree is currently kind of a hot mess in that there's talents no one ever, ever uses, ever while certain talents are almost always picked (which is something the devs don't like to see). The latest patch helped alleviate that a _little_ bit, but they still need work.
Hey mate, Could you please do an Illusion Master Samuro tips video? w/full game if at all possible, not just "mistakes you might be making". Would really appreciate it.
I managed years back to succesfully play with vikings on my team (was plat HL) for a lot of games by going sylv and pushing lanes hard as 4 since I knew my team couldn't do gank. This forced enemy to either abandon structures or exp from 1 lane (note it was plat so this created chaos in enemies) and gave us big level lead.
How are people ever to learn when they hardly see them? So basically the only way to make people understand how to play with vikings on their team is by having them played.
@@TheIllio that's where the problem starts, players don't like taking orders/advices, hell they will even report you if they end up losing in a bad way
@@TheNizoubizou Well you won't ever be able to make everyone understand, so I just wouldn't try it anymore and ignore those, who blame you for picking vikings. If by any chance they don't screw up completely and you manage to carry them your way, you can still try to make them realize, that TLV are indeed a strong hero, but merely require some teamwork. If they still don't, just don't let it get to you. Just keep doing your thing, you will be even more happy if you find people who can actually communicate in a good way and have some fun games. That's why I don't like to play draft mode. People won't have a right to report you for your pick in QM and even if they do, you don't have to fear any consequences. So imho if you want something to change, be it the game or the community, you have to make a start and try your best. There might be other people just like you out there and everyone that gives up in the first place only allows more of those ignorant people to dominate the community. Oh and btw, giving advice/orders is something that I also hate quite often, because making calls and communicating with the team are two different things. When I have an idea of what we can do in a certain situation, I use the chat. For example if there is a chance to do Boss I won't ping Boss and demand everyone to do it, but type "shall we do boss?" or something like that in chat. Whenever someone thinks, it might be too much of a risk, he can be just as right as I could've been with the boss call. Everyone makes mistakes and a bad call that ends up losing the game usually makes the team rage and argue a lot more than simple communication. When I play TLV I just tell my team what I plan to do and ask them, if they can help out with this or that instead of demanding them to adapt to my playstyle. So I really prefer simple communication over making calls, especially because there is an overuse of unneccessary pings among the playerbase. Like when I get caught and have no way to escape alive without help and no help is closeby, I usually try to get at least some soak or even a kill out of it or deny the enemy something so that my death won't be completely in vain. In these situations I always get a retreat ping from some ally. Great, does this ping give me some dash ability or sudden invulnerability? I can need this ping as a warning, that enemies are aproaching, but not as a warning, that the enemy has caught me and I am about to die. So smart communication usually is way better than demanding anything. People will more likely agree with you or tell you what they think and you can do way better teamwork if nobody tries to be a teamleader that applies pressure on the own team.
@@dennisk.8910 RTS stands for real-time strategy. Games like SC and WC is a RTS game. It is considered one of the full skill on skill game. If I'm not mistaken, a term APM (action per minute) was even coined from these games. Generally, higher APM is considered more skillful as you have more probability to do more useful stuff in a given time. TLV is just that. You have to be more aware of minimap interaction, you have to control more action per minute (apm). Players who came from RTS background is generally good with TLV because of it. Grubby, streamer who used to play and cast HotS but now quit, is a WC3 player (former pro). And he was good with TLV also.
every thing a TLV player needs to know.. 22 mins for 5 tips + A few things. This is not using any of the newly changed TLV talents Ectar said he still needs to test them. Ectar also tied for first with DKunleashed which he will have a different video soon. .... cmon?
A few things. This is not using any of the newly changed TLV talents Ectar said he still needs to test them. Ectar also tied for first with DKunleashed which he will have a different video soon.
Does elo matter in tournament? Is there a minimum?
My problem with the TLV is that Jump is pretty much a must-have but I really like/prefer the Burning Olaf for split pushing.. If they did at least slightly better job at spreading out the talent tree less impactfully on such basic mechanics think they'd be played some/more maybe :)
@@VArsovski10 burning olaf can be fine to pick sometimes. just not often.
Well if you get a high level mirco and you know there’s an enemy ability coming then can’t you just avoid it and pick Hunka burning Olaf anyway?
Paradox, I can't tell you how happy I am that you're continuing to make such quality Heroes content on such a regular basis. What with the already fearsome population of Heroes doomsayers proliferating more and more by the day, it makes me happy to know there's people like you who continue to promote a thriving community of positivity around my favorite game.
I miss grubby playing hots
@@dededethesuperstarwarrior7753 Why did you had to make me remember Grub? :(
Long live HotS!
Another easy use of command queue for vikings, right click the mage minion, shift+movement command on top of the mage (you have to bind it yourself, I use G key), then shift+A key (attack move) to a safe point, such as a bush in a long lane or your fort.
This only takes a second extra, and it ensures your viking will kill the mage first, grab the globe, then attack the nearest minion until all minions are dead then walk to the safe spot you picked.
Since you have to swap around a lot anyways it's mostly useful when you want to focus on something with one or two vikings for a bit, so that you don't accidentally leave a viking in a bad spot while, for instance, microing two vikings in a team fight, or sneaking a camp/objective.
Sometimes if the enemy don't harass your vikings you can do this lane by lane so you have more time to observe things, but if they don't you won anyways.
Queue commands are something that every player should get used to doing, not just Vikings players.
- Mount-up, queue your next movement so you start moving immediately with no risk of canceling the mount.
- Head to a fountain, queue-up your next location so you start moving as soon as you've grabbed a sip.
- If you want to poke a character with an ability (say KT Living Bomb) and fall back, use the ability and queue somewhere safe. You'll hit them with the ability and immediately start falling back to safety.
- Start channeling an objective, and if you think it'll be contested, queue a movement to safety so you fallback as soon as the enemy pokes you; alternatively, you can queue-up mounting, then queue-up movement so that you can mount-up and get to your next location the instant your channel is done.
And that's just four examples off the top of my head. IMO, every HotS player who's looking to climb the ladder should get used to queue commands to give them just a little bit more of an edge.
Knew all of this except the last one. I normally try to be predictive and hyper aware of where the enemy is and dodge thier interrupts. However, the value of 4 is still high.
I'm going to incorporate this into my gameplay
NotParadox.. A man of his word.. Bless you for doing this.. And bless you for having the voice of angels.
THANKS FOR THE LOST VIKINGS VIDEO SO MUCH!!!! i know they arent tier 1 but still cover all the heroes, thank you so much!
been playing this game for 3 years and never realised shift comands exist, just had an epiphany.
TLV needs 2 new skins: THE THREE AMIGOS skin, and 3 Pirates skin!
Mafia. THAT is that they need. Grenades for Eric, shotgun for Baleog, case with money for Olaf and black smockings for everyone of them.
And the three musketeers
Great informative video!
I'd like to add that map awareness is one of the major tip for TLV, if not the major one. In the video, we can see when Ectar decides to channel an objective/push a line harder/grab a mercenary camp, and when he doesn't. The opposing team's Genji was designated TLV hunter, and even if Ectar lost some of his vikings to Genji, he was near/under his towers' fire.
We can say that it's the same for all Heroes, but playing TLV needs to check the map & decide for 3 characters rather than one. Otherwise, the TLV player will be spending their time dying and queuing their TLVs from base to their lanes for the entire game.
Awesome replay, and maybe one last thing: I think during the last parts of the HGC, TLV is actually a strong counter to Abathur, as a double soaking Abathur with a 4 man single lane is less strong than it's TLV counterpart.
Shift command is highly underrated. Everyone should learn in it.
Ryan DeArmond I’ve tried using shift command for the past 20 days and I for some reason work better off of not using it (I am a Vikings main) but I guess it’s because I’ve gotten this far without it so it’d hinder me because I’d need to change a lot
@@thefatman4671 yeah all the way to bronze 4 lol
that abathur bait! lol
Right? Aba was trying that the whole game which is why he wasn't checking in the beginning when he saw him.
I put a comment saying about seeing him right in the beginning, then I realised it was a bait to kill off one of TLV's Good shout!
@@BradWaltz Yeah, as an Abby player that's had to go against TLV a few times, I can confirm that this is very effective. TLV player typically assumes you're not paying attention rather than that it's a trap, but they _usually_ learn _eventually_ and instead signal to one of their teammates.
i cannot believe it worked twice vs a "pro". it is so obvious... you can never kill aba solo as tlv. aba can always deep tunnel.
I press the buttons 2 times too to get my camera to the different vikings, because I tried using space and it isn't very effective. Sometimes you hit the number of the viking and space so fast that the camera will stay on the previous viking and I found it very annoying.
Great video!
12:40 I prefer number-key plus spacebar, because it's a little bit faster - but I think it comes down to personal preferences.
I feel like there should b a really cool Terran skin for TLV, since their mechanics are so similar to what you need in SC
Unlocked those three a couple of days ago. Yay!
DGL sounds awesome but the link is dead a year later. Anyone know if DGL or anything similar still exists today?
I’m not great with the Vikings but I love playing them.
Are you guys using the minimap to send TLV around? I normally have "click through minimap" activated, but with TLV I think about using the minimap for some larger move commands.
@NotParadox Great video and tips! Thank you!
How do you know when Olafs charge stun(16 talents) is off CD? I struggle trying to time this cause i still havent found when its ready to re use in a fight.
Wait so you don't just put one in each lane to sit in a Bush all game?
Starts at 2:17
ty
"you don't have to win the lane, you just need to not die", proceeds to die 2 times
2 deaths as vikings < 1 death
technicly did not die?
this and chogall are one of the reasons i like hots! meta wise they are so bad, but i like playing them
When youre from starcraft 2 and start play main tlv.
Oh shit here we go again...
ok, i have to ask, why does it matter to 3 lane with tlv? if there is people in mid, won't the people in mid be getting the exp combined then? i personally use 2 lane's while tlv because 1 lane to soak (usually take spy games as level 1 talent and let one sit there and passively gather exp), then take 2 and sit and soak bottom. don't understand why tlv needs to 3 lane because there is people nearly always in mid. i could see 3 lane during objective if you don't combine during objective.
I think that ideally 4-man would be always circulating and gawk their solo laner(s) so you would have an "extra" viking but it's only for a while.
I personally always take my viking away from lane when I notice that 4-man are getting ahead and pushing hard. So it's like Erik can go bribe or Baleog and Olaf can take a hard camp
who is the main TLV who play good and have a yt channel? please make a list because i find almost no one
I always use the shift command for alot of things
how can i see actions of gamers when i watch replay(cliks of mouse and camera's motions)?
Ectar missed a lot of opportunities to kill Abathur or poke him out of soak range.
13:47 APOLOGIZE
~UH-huh~
When I accidentally press my spotify play keybinding.
WOOW!! love this video!! TNX!!!
Just a little tagging thing; do you have 'the lost vikings' or 'lost vikings' in this video's tags? Because searching youtube for 'NotParadox Lost Vikings' doesn't bring this up.
Can the ai controll all viking at the same time?
never really know 'shift command' is aviable in any moba game x)
too much lol i guess (as far as i know, there is no shiftcommand, at least there wasn't when i checked it last time)
and before you ask - i use it when playing RTS games and i'm well aware of such mechanic, just didn't realise it's a thing in moba
What is a "lost viking"??
how do you feel about TLV after the XP changes?
What was the changes? And when did they changed them?
thanks!
TLV Were really amazing to play in a MOBA. its too bad I don't play hots anymore after all the crap that happened.. Sorry it happened brother ur channel was growing like crazy
@lobomuerto11 Kevin left :(
Nothing really happend. Just some devs left the team. Still getting new content and patches.
@@NanocDark99 ya I just made a smurf for shorter que times and started playing again.. hots is great I was pretty mad about the announcement tho. Like people were leaving league for hots until that
I hope they make a HotsAlpha to play TLV
Paradox, on videos like this with several points of interest, could you please timestamp the different points?
It's very hard to find the different points, and I personally am not one with enough patience to watch 23 minutes straight.
Any talent shown?
Edit: Never mind. You could figure it out from the vid.
I think it would be a huge improvement if during the interval you switch the active Viking, the inactive ones get controlled by AI and prioritize getting the globe, if possible.
That would make TLV waaaaaay too strong if that were the case. It would also kind of defeat the purpose of them being a high-skill cap hero. Part of the balance behind the vikings is that you have to split your focus between the three of them. I also don't think it would really fix the key issue for them, which is that they're not great for every map (particularly 2-lane maps). That part just comes from their wonky mix of stats and abilities. Likewise, their talent tree is currently kind of a hot mess in that there's talents no one ever, ever uses, ever while certain talents are almost always picked (which is something the devs don't like to see). The latest patch helped alleviate that a _little_ bit, but they still need work.
linux do céu, eu perguntei deste campeonato na sua live e vc disse que não sabia oque era DGL, e eis qe vc esta aqui.....
Yesssssssssss my main
is DGL NA only or in EU as well?
It's on NA servers :)
Paradox DO A MALF video that's current! Please:) need tips
So early.
Is DGL Dead?
This is a video for bronze 4-5 and nothing higher
Hey mate,
Could you please do an Illusion Master Samuro tips video? w/full game if at all possible, not just "mistakes you might be making".
Would really appreciate it.
first tip is not to play them because your teammate are too stupid to adapt and understand that they don't have to soak but only gank the enemy
I managed years back to succesfully play with vikings on my team (was plat HL) for a lot of games by going sylv and pushing lanes hard as 4 since I knew my team couldn't do gank.
This forced enemy to either abandon structures or exp from 1 lane (note it was plat so this created chaos in enemies) and gave us big level lead.
How are people ever to learn when they hardly see them? So basically the only way to make people understand how to play with vikings on their team is by having them played.
@@TheIllio that's where the problem starts, players don't like taking orders/advices, hell they will even report you if they end up losing in a bad way
@@TheNizoubizou Well you won't ever be able to make everyone understand, so I just wouldn't try it anymore and ignore those, who blame you for picking vikings. If by any chance they don't screw up completely and you manage to carry them your way, you can still try to make them realize, that TLV are indeed a strong hero, but merely require some teamwork. If they still don't, just don't let it get to you. Just keep doing your thing, you will be even more happy if you find people who can actually communicate in a good way and have some fun games. That's why I don't like to play draft mode. People won't have a right to report you for your pick in QM and even if they do, you don't have to fear any consequences.
So imho if you want something to change, be it the game or the community, you have to make a start and try your best. There might be other people just like you out there and everyone that gives up in the first place only allows more of those ignorant people to dominate the community.
Oh and btw, giving advice/orders is something that I also hate quite often, because making calls and communicating with the team are two different things. When I have an idea of what we can do in a certain situation, I use the chat. For example if there is a chance to do Boss I won't ping Boss and demand everyone to do it, but type "shall we do boss?" or something like that in chat. Whenever someone thinks, it might be too much of a risk, he can be just as right as I could've been with the boss call. Everyone makes mistakes and a bad call that ends up losing the game usually makes the team rage and argue a lot more than simple communication.
When I play TLV I just tell my team what I plan to do and ask them, if they can help out with this or that instead of demanding them to adapt to my playstyle.
So I really prefer simple communication over making calls, especially because there is an overuse of unneccessary pings among the playerbase. Like when I get caught and have no way to escape alive without help and no help is closeby, I usually try to get at least some soak or even a kill out of it or deny the enemy something so that my death won't be completely in vain. In these situations I always get a retreat ping from some ally. Great, does this ping give me some dash ability or sudden invulnerability? I can need this ping as a warning, that enemies are aproaching, but not as a warning, that the enemy has caught me and I am about to die.
So smart communication usually is way better than demanding anything. People will more likely agree with you or tell you what they think and you can do way better teamwork if nobody tries to be a teamleader that applies pressure on the own team.
RIP turk_ HotS stream
And only tip that matters, 12:48 , learn to play RTS!
what is rts? or what does it stand for?
@@dennisk.8910
RTS stands for real-time strategy. Games like SC and WC is a RTS game. It is considered one of the full skill on skill game. If I'm not mistaken, a term APM (action per minute) was even coined from these games. Generally, higher APM is considered more skillful as you have more probability to do more useful stuff in a given time.
TLV is just that. You have to be more aware of minimap interaction, you have to control more action per minute (apm). Players who came from RTS background is generally good with TLV because of it. Grubby, streamer who used to play and cast HotS but now quit, is a WC3 player (former pro). And he was good with TLV also.
@@andrewyp6724 Thanks, i forgot this shortcut :)
every thing a TLV player needs to know.. 22 mins for 5 tips + A few things. This is not using any of the newly changed TLV talents Ectar said he still needs to test them. Ectar also tied for first with DKunleashed which he will have a different video soon.
.... cmon?
I have one and only one necessary tip for TLV players...don't play TLVs.