Craig , Adam wow what a useful video, the conclusion of mixing bait, either the night before or the same day has no difference at all. Also cupping in a sausage shape piece of groundbait proved more beneficial than an actual ball.. fantastic stuff thanks guys well done to you both for analysing everything. Brilliant .
Enjoyed the video, shows to me that the difference in size and roundness rough texture effects how the balls fall through the water, some spin more than others? Thought the one hand sausage shape would react similar, maybe a groundbait dropper might be the only way to overcome the disparity
There are too many physics factors with the throwing or balling in. Both the trajectory and speed of impact of each ball will be different. Then the density, incompressibilty and dispersion of the water. Then water pushes upward against the ball of groundbait with a force equal to the weight of water that is displaced by the ball. So the balls could be pushed just about anywhere. (Archimedes)
Would be interesting to compare the large pole cup to a small one to see if one is more accurate as on the canal I mainly use the small one, but well done guys very thought provoking.
That is the most educational underwater video to date, also you guy's made it so funny with your reactions 🤣 it just goes to show that all the practice the England put in firing balls of grounbait 50 metres to a slider has been a complete waste of time 😅 brilliant video Matrix 👏👏👏👏
A very interesting video that really got me thinking, I think there are many variants to consider, When you drop a ball from a hight to make a splash with a big ball the pole is bent due to the weight of the ball making it shorter, Similarly when balling in by hand, the ball falls an arc and continues in an arc under the water. I think the sausage dropped level with the water appears to be the most accurate. The thinking with smaller balls may work but could also suffer with spinning as they drop.
Using the end of the pole to your elbow isn't accurate enough. Your elbow and body won't be in the same exact place everytime. Use a static object as a marker I use tape lined up with my box leg.
OMG I used to fish 60 yrs ago , havent things changed !! I have no idea how I used to catch fish then I must have been so lucky , this is a great comedy video lol .
Would love to see if it's possible to film on a big river like the Trent. I'm sure Lee would love to be the angler on the box. Balling in, cupping in, loose feeding and rigs. I understand boats and H&S could be an issue on top of the obvious running water, but if its possible then please make it happen 🙏
A further idea about square blocks as such....a square cupping kit, and perhaps a diamond shape cup?. it was obvious that spin is the problem so make cups that eliminate spin?
What do you think will happen if you tried making your gb balls a bit like the shape of a spinning top, putting them point first in your cup so that when you cup them in the heaviest end goes in first which I feel might help with less rotation allowing the ball to sink straighter ! Plus if there’s any underwater tow that too would effect what happens, just a thought and by the way a great video. 👍
Would have been useful to see what cupping in loose groundbait did. This could likely show how much effect undertow was having on your accuracy. Also, did anyone else notice that in the shallow water, the balls almost hovered for a fraction of a second just off bottom before finally landing?
just a thought , would the depth of water you were doing the balling in of made a difference to the balls of ground bait going off centre , if doing the same in much shallower depth surely would have a different result .
Very interesting! I think what we've learnt is not to cup ball in and sit with your pole in the rest and just sit there thinking you're bang over it 😂 There really is a lot of value in exploring around the peg a bit. We almost certainty change things about a bit and catch, but quite likely not for the reson we thought - were those skimmers really sitting off your bait or was most of it just further our or more to the right than you thought 🤔
The first of the big balls potted on 48 mins the pole wasn’t fully extended. So how did it go in? The second was so the distance they were dropped at was totally different!
I was thinking about the bend of the pole when cupping in as pole is straight with your rig on yet surely the arc of the pole weighted would be shorter no?
Great video , but now everyone is confused especially on deep pegs. If this was done in a standard commercial 3ft peg accuracy would be surely spot on. On a deeper peg than 10ft then who knows , which suggests you could be loading it in anywhere. The only accurate way obviously now is a bait dropper/baitup feeder.
One problem is your 'balls' are not true spheres. They are more like 'faceted sphereoids' with an uneven surface and dimples formed by finger impressions. You get uneven hydrodynamic forces across the surface and it wants to spin. I'm all for the sausage 😂 Now if you want some product ideas to improve ground bait feeding.... A) make a pole cup that is not a 'cup' shape. Make a 'cup' with a cylinder-like or slim can-like profile that way you can put a 'sausage' or cylinder-like lump of ground bait in it and it will slide out nicely. B) Groundbait molds. We all have method molds for consistent loading of the feeder. Why not make groundbaits molds so you can produce consistent perfect 'balls' or 'cylinders' that fall through the water in consistent manner and so should all land in a tightly grouped manner. P.S when you do this next time , for the purposes of visibility it may be better to use a brighter ground bait. Red works best in most conditions.
I'd imagine a cylindrical shaped groundbait ball would tumble and break apart prior to hitting the bottom, might not fall directly down either. Also Nash make groundbait ball molds, not quite the size these boys were using however
@@joshc8907 I picked a cylinder as an easy shape to make a mold, but really a better shape would be an elongated ovoid Rugby ball shape somewhat like a 'chianti' pole float body or may be the equivalent of two of your typical method feeder mold shapes placed back-to-back to create a tear- drop shaped lump of ground bait.
Depends what you want from your feeding situation. Some times balling, spreading bait, is better for a shoal of bream who can graze over an area. Picking fish off or fishing for bites could require a more accurate approach. Either way, both methods work and analysing things too much can confuse and affect your thought process. Do what you’re confident in and works for you. Interesting video though 👍
It will veary all the time, it all depends on the depth of the lake and the tow in the water. Its the same as swing back in the lead in different depths
I heard a story (might have been England) putting sticks into gb balls to stop them rolling down the slope. I wonder if it would stop them spinning? Possibly another test once you’ve saved up for another 5 tons of gb for next time 😆
Hello, Men of Matrix... Just been inspired by a comment on the video. Could you try this little experiment... Take two of your largest method feeder molds and mold a lump of groundbait between them, placed back-to-back. This should create a lump with an egg shape. The method feeder shape is hydrodynamic and 'weight down'. The egg of groundbait should have good hydrodynamic properties and a nice stable fall to the bottom. Just an idea...
@@ifishmatrix If you want to know where your 'balls' land just spike first ball with matchsticks watch to see where they pop up and adjust deliver accordingly.
So tackle companies what we need is a groundbait bait dropper that open on the bottom in conjunction with a cable tie a few feet down the top kit!! For dead accuracy.
On deep venues like the River Weaver. I,ve often used a large cage feeder to get groundbait to the bottom on my pole line. However, a groundbait bait-dropper would be the answer from a product development point of view, Matrix.
Have to say the biggest thing I took form the video was that the fish have no interest in ground bait at all the one fish that came showed no interest.
fish swim!....Is there really any need to be depositing balls one on top of another? Surely a spread of bait will result in less 'liners' and more positive bites as fish grab a hookbait and then head towards some other offering.
Possibly. But there's also an argument for tighter feeding producing quicker bites, and more fish in the net. Maybe it depends on the size and species you are targeting? Lots to think about.
@@ifishmatrix I would suggest tight feeding is possibly why swims dry up more quickly. The fish pile in on the deposited bait almost instantly, fill up, regard their mates getting caught, and swiftly bugger off. Whereas, more spread bait probably retains them for longer? Underwater vids probably raise more questions than even before, but also dispel some myths for sure. For me, I'm torn between having the 'magic,' removed, and being insatiably curious 😜🤔😃👁️
I’m sorry, but this must be the most pointless underwater video I’ve seen. Normally enjoy watching the matrix videos, but what does it matter if a ball of ground bait lands 6” or a foot away from another ball of groundbait? I’d say it’s preferable to have your groundbait spread over a metre anyway. Please get back to putting informative, interesting videos on !!
@@johnchapm9886 fair point to make. On balance, the video does highlight that things act differently in water than air, and if one is a perfectionist then small details could have consequences.
@ianchappy I think the boys were just trying to highlight accuracy with the amount of balls of course if you only fed one and trying to catch one fish i guess you need to be more or less on the money and your baited hook on it or next to it.👍
Like many things in Fishing, it's not a science. When you watch all this stuff underwater, I think it becomes more confusing than ever Very good lads who ball it in frequently are likely very good for a reason. I'd say the accuracy of feed reaching the bottom, more of a human thing. Kinda like those folks who can design stuff inside their heads in 3D, from every angle, every perspective, and when they try to explain it to us mere mortals, we are mired in a 2D image. That being said 10 ft of water is a whole different kettle of fish....
Seemed a lot of hard work for a fairly predictable outcome for me - tow, seating position and shape of ball is always gonna contribute. Sorry lads, do you really want every ball on top of each other?
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
The spin effect is called the
" coanda effect " it causes a round object to move towards the direction of spin.
Didn't Barns Wallis counter spin his bouncing bombs to the direction of travel?
WOW! what an eye opener -great vid 👍
Craig , Adam wow what a useful video, the conclusion of mixing bait, either the night before or the same day has no difference at all. Also cupping in a sausage shape piece of groundbait proved more beneficial than an actual ball.. fantastic stuff thanks guys well done to you both for analysing everything. Brilliant .
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
Great video, massive eye opener for me, i would love to see a similar video on a river, to see how moving water effects things ?
So, the practical side of me concludes that buying sonubaits shares is a safe bet.... LOL
Great vid we need to see what it’s like when you sand castle it in and if a wet stodgy ball mates a different keep them coming 👍
Mindblowing, thank you! Keep making these kind of videos!!
Very interesting 👍 great video
Enjoyed the video, shows to me that the difference in size and roundness rough texture effects how the balls fall through the water, some spin more than others? Thought the one hand sausage shape would react similar, maybe a groundbait dropper might be the only way to overcome the disparity
i would like to see you try Horcott lakes in gloucestershire, gin clear gravel pits around 4ft / 5ft deep ( great video btw ) 👍
Great suggestion!
There are too many physics factors with the throwing or balling in. Both the trajectory and speed of impact of each ball will be different. Then the density, incompressibilty and dispersion of the water. Then water pushes upward against the ball of groundbait with a force equal to the weight of water that is displaced by the ball. So the balls could be pushed just about anywhere. (Archimedes)
Would be interesting to compare the large pole cup to a small one to see if one is more accurate as on the canal I mainly use the small one, but well done guys very thought provoking.
This is a great video and it's a lot to think about
Great work guys. Thank you.
🐳👍👏
Great video, what an eye opener, be interesting to see if weight helps? Leam or put a stone in the ball?
That is the most educational underwater video to date, also you guy's made it so funny with your reactions 🤣 it just goes to show that all the practice the England put in firing balls of grounbait 50 metres to a slider has been a complete waste of time 😅 brilliant video Matrix 👏👏👏👏
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Loads of medals, both team and individual, over many years suggest not. The practice still makes them better than the rest.
Very interesting and certainly worth watching, and you pursuing this further. What surprises me most is nothing turned up to eat any of it!
It was a very low stocked lake we went to, maybe inn the future we'll have a natural water video with some fish on it
A very interesting video that really got me thinking, I think there are many variants to consider, When you drop a ball from a hight to make a splash with
a big ball the pole is bent due to the weight of the ball making it shorter, Similarly when balling in by hand, the ball falls an arc and continues in an arc under the water. I think the sausage dropped level with the water appears to be the most accurate. The thinking with smaller balls may work but could also suffer with spinning as they drop.
Using the end of the pole to your elbow isn't accurate enough. Your elbow and body won't be in the same exact place everytime. Use a static object as a marker I use tape lined up with my box leg.
Great video. Would like to see the same thing with loose bait.
Lots more coming soon
Nicely done Craig, who would of thought to drop your ground bait from that height to get it on target, very interesting video, Thank you,
Glad you enjoyed it
Is this a Pheonix Nights version of the Guru videos?
Ouch
No that’s the camper van road trip 😂
@@daldal616 phoenix Nights was absolute quality 😆 🤣 😂
Enjoyable watch fellas. Would have been interesting to know whether the hand thrown balls landed before, or further than the ring.
When we went back in with scuba kit on, we found them both short, long and to the side.
OMG I used to fish 60 yrs ago , havent things changed !! I have no idea how I used to catch fish then I must have been so lucky , this is a great comedy video lol .
I wonder how much the bend in the pole is affecting the distance when balling Vs cupping?
Would love to see if it's possible to film on a big river like the Trent. I'm sure Lee would love to be the angler on the box. Balling in, cupping in, loose feeding and rigs. I understand boats and H&S could be an issue on top of the obvious running water, but if its possible then please make it happen 🙏
What happens if you drop bait balls with a waterdrop (aquadynamic) form?
A further idea about square blocks as such....a square cupping kit, and perhaps a diamond shape cup?. it was obvious that spin is the problem so make cups that eliminate spin?
Possibly!
I would go for cylinder. Its the easiest to produce.
What do you think will happen if you tried making your gb balls a bit like the shape of a spinning top, putting them point first in your cup so that when you cup them in the heaviest end goes in first which I feel might help with less rotation allowing the ball to sink straighter ! Plus if there’s any underwater tow that too would effect what happens, just a thought and by the way a great video. 👍
Would have been useful to see what cupping in loose groundbait did. This could likely show how much effect undertow was having on your accuracy. Also, did anyone else notice that in the shallow water, the balls almost hovered for a fraction of a second just off bottom before finally landing?
Like watching paint dry! Bring back the Hughes 🎣🎣
We do miss Rob, he did a brilliant job with the videos
just a thought , would the depth of water you were doing the balling in of made a difference to the balls of ground bait going off centre , if doing the same in much shallower depth surely would have a different result .
Very interesting! I think what we've learnt is not to cup ball in and sit with your pole in the rest and just sit there thinking you're bang over it 😂 There really is a lot of value in exploring around the peg a bit. We almost certainty change things about a bit and catch, but quite likely not for the reson we thought - were those skimmers really sitting off your bait or was most of it just further our or more to the right than you thought 🤔
Certainly gives you a lot to think about
The first of the big balls potted on 48 mins the pole wasn’t fully extended. So how did it go in? The second was so the distance they were dropped at was totally different!
So we are all obviously doing it all wrong ! Very interesting video thanks 🙏
I was thinking about the bend of the pole when cupping in as pole is straight with your rig on yet surely the arc of the pole weighted would be shorter no?
Yep. Your right. The bend in the pole effectively makes it shorter.
Great video , but now everyone is confused especially on deep pegs. If this was done in a standard commercial 3ft peg accuracy would be surely spot on. On a deeper peg than 10ft then who knows , which suggests you could be loading it in anywhere. The only accurate way obviously now is a bait dropper/baitup feeder.
Most of the movement caused by the spin of the balls happened as it entered the water so you would still get the inaccuracy even in shallow water
One problem is your 'balls' are not true spheres. They are more like 'faceted sphereoids' with an uneven surface and dimples formed by finger impressions. You get uneven hydrodynamic forces across the surface and it wants to spin.
I'm all for the sausage 😂
Now if you want some product ideas to improve ground bait feeding....
A) make a pole cup that is not a 'cup' shape. Make a 'cup' with a cylinder-like or slim can-like profile that way you can put a 'sausage' or cylinder-like lump of ground bait in it and it will slide out nicely.
B) Groundbait molds. We all have method molds for consistent loading of the feeder. Why not make groundbaits molds so you can produce consistent perfect 'balls' or 'cylinders' that fall through the water in consistent manner and so should all land in a tightly grouped manner.
P.S when you do this next time , for the purposes of visibility it may be better to use a brighter ground bait.
Red works best in most conditions.
I'd imagine a cylindrical shaped groundbait ball would tumble and break apart prior to hitting the bottom, might not fall directly down either. Also Nash make groundbait ball molds, not quite the size these boys were using however
@@joshc8907 I picked a cylinder as an easy shape to make a mold, but really a better shape would be an elongated ovoid Rugby ball shape somewhat like a 'chianti' pole float body or may be the equivalent of two of your typical method feeder mold shapes placed back-to-back to create a tear- drop shaped lump of ground bait.
Wouldn’t it be easily to use the snowball makers and make them perfect shape every time
How about flooding cup with water then tipping slowly. Crazy theories. What about tow and drift on deep lake ❤😂
The 2nd ball of groundbait that was supoosed to go to the left actually came out to the right. ??? It got stuck and came out latez and to the right.
Depends what you want from your feeding situation. Some times balling, spreading bait, is better for a shoal of bream who can graze over an area. Picking fish off or fishing for bites could require a more accurate approach. Either way, both methods work and analysing things too much can confuse and affect your thought process. Do what you’re confident in and works for you. Interesting video though 👍
The sausage balls were spinning but did not travel. They seemed to sink straight down.
It will veary all the time, it all depends on the depth of the lake and the tow in the water. Its the same as swing back in the lead in different depths
What venue are you fishing? Great vid.
It's a carp syndicate.
"I'm gonna ball it in"....... then go home 😅
I heard a story (might have been England) putting sticks into gb balls to stop them rolling down the slope. I wonder if it would stop them spinning? Possibly another test once you’ve saved up for another 5 tons of gb for next time 😆
We're still waiting for the drill batteries to charge!
water depth has got to make a difference.
Hello, Men of Matrix...
Just been inspired by a comment on the video.
Could you try this little experiment...
Take two of your largest method feeder molds and mold a lump of groundbait between them, placed back-to-back. This should create a lump with an egg shape. The method feeder shape is hydrodynamic and 'weight down'. The egg of groundbait should have good hydrodynamic properties and a nice stable fall to the bottom.
Just an idea...
Interesting thought! Maybe we could try that if we re-visit in future!
@@ifishmatrix If you want to know where your 'balls' land just spike first ball with matchsticks watch to see where they pop up and adjust deliver accordingly.
Well done putting Your neck on the block as such, and thus producing an honest and interesting video, maybe a few square ones were needed?
Thanks!
The Magnus effect possibly?
So tackle companies what we need is a groundbait bait dropper that open on the bottom in conjunction with a cable tie a few feet down the top kit!! For dead accuracy.
You can feed it loose in a dropper .
On deep venues like the River Weaver. I,ve often used a large cage feeder to get groundbait to the bottom on my pole line. However, a groundbait bait-dropper would be the answer from a product development point of view, Matrix.
Have to say the biggest thing I took form the video was that the fish have no interest in ground bait at all the one fish that came showed no interest.
Where’s underwater Rob??
Shark ate him! 😂
Imagine 20ft on a river
What it tells me is we don't feed enough as the balls on the bottom look tiny. How about bomb shaped so the more weight points down
fish swim!....Is there really any need to be depositing balls one on top of another? Surely a spread of bait will result in less 'liners' and more positive bites as fish grab a hookbait and then head towards some other offering.
Possibly. But there's also an argument for tighter feeding producing quicker bites, and more fish in the net. Maybe it depends on the size and species you are targeting? Lots to think about.
@@ifishmatrix I would suggest tight feeding is possibly why swims dry up more quickly. The fish pile in on the deposited bait almost instantly, fill up, regard their mates getting caught, and swiftly bugger off. Whereas, more spread bait probably retains them for longer? Underwater vids probably raise more questions than even before, but also dispel some myths for sure. For me, I'm torn between having the 'magic,' removed, and being insatiably curious 😜🤔😃👁️
I’m sorry, but this must be the most pointless underwater video I’ve seen. Normally enjoy watching the matrix videos, but what does it matter if a ball of ground bait lands 6” or a foot away from another ball of groundbait? I’d say it’s preferable to have your groundbait spread over a metre anyway. Please get back to putting informative, interesting videos on !!
@@johnchapm9886 fair point to make. On balance, the video does highlight that things act differently in water than air, and if one is a perfectionist then small details could have consequences.
@ianchappy
I think the boys were just trying to highlight accuracy with the amount of balls of course if you only fed one and trying to catch one fish i guess you need to be more or less on the money and your baited hook on it or next to it.👍
To prove the noise theory, just ball in some stones and see if you get bites?!
Like many things in Fishing, it's not a science. When you watch all this stuff underwater, I think it becomes more confusing than ever Very good lads who ball it in frequently are likely very good for a reason. I'd say the accuracy of feed reaching the bottom, more of a human thing. Kinda like those folks who can design stuff inside their heads in 3D, from every angle, every perspective, and when they try to explain it to us mere mortals, we are mired in a 2D image.
That being said 10 ft of water is a whole different kettle of fish....
Lads basic geometry lifting pole high you are dropping shorter
I'll use heavy soil and small sausages for all my fishing now
Really good and interesting video but the constant innuendos were cringe worthy.
What happened to just casting.
More accurate with the pole
MAYBE THE BALLS ARE BREAKING UP MID WATER, FROM A HIGHT?
No they mix held together really well and you would see the cloud of bait fall if it broke up on impact
Seemed a lot of hard work for a fairly predictable outcome for me - tow, seating position and shape of ball is always gonna contribute. Sorry lads, do you really want every ball on top of each other?
Maybe not, but you'd like the think they'd land within a 2m x 2m square with is roughly what we can see on the camera!
The music is always atrocious on these vids
I’m a matrix fanboy BUT this isn’t guru underwater!
We’ve got bigger projects on the way with fish involved but videos like this are more about tactics and learning. They also only take a day to film 😂
You fish a duck boys need to calm it down.
😴
46 mins pole in rest you have 3ft of pole behind you, is that why balls not on screen
We added the mini extension to have more pole to put in the rest but the pole pot was bang on the spot.
Waste of time...fish are not measuring how far apart the balls are!dont know if you ever noticed..fish swim about! Pointless video..
Well...after all that it just shows me, what a waste of f*cking time this video was.
No no no ,get your self a bait boat like the whaling boys, sorry carp anglers😅😅😅
when you throw them in, it looks as though they break up on impact, watch how mant particles appear on screen after hand throwing them
I think the most surprising thing about that video was how tidy your Conference Room is 🥱