What Happened To The ORCS & MORDOR After The War of The Ring? | Middle Earth Lore
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- Ever wondered what happened to the lands of Gorgoroth and the surfing Orcs after the War of the Ring? We find out in todays video! :)
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#LordoftheRingsLore #OrcsAfterLordoftheRings #MordorAfterLordoftheRings
They all gathered in one place. Today they call it "New Jersey."
And the neighboring, many-towered "New Orc." =^[.]^=
That’s a weird way to spell “Portland”
And the orcs built toll booths, overpriced rentals and even charged the Men to walk on the polluted beaches by the polluted sea, and the Men paid and paid, and returned yearly to do it all again. And each laughed at the other, and they still do today....yea, buddy
Bruh 😂😂😂
Sorry. Chatham, Kent UK.
Without Sauron´s control, I would think that the Orcs lacked both the will and the discipline to continue fighting for him; thus I consider it most likely that they would slink away to whichever hole they could find, and just engage in minor skirmishes with the soldiers of Arnor and Gondor whenever their paths crossed, as well as battling other Orcs. After all, they weren´t exactly known for their great loyalty, not even towards their own kind.
As I recall there was a tendency to eat each other
@H 864 And if nothing else, Shelob would probably eat every orc that was unfortunate enough to cross her path.
@H 864 Yup 😋
I was gonna say they fucked off to whatever they wanted or could hide from, but you said it
@@BertGrink Shelob was killed by Sam.
There's a part in the book where Sam and Frodo overhear to orcs discussing their own plans, and they talk about getting some lads together to do some raiding and banditry. I suspect orcs lack much in the way of culture, so without a strong leader holding them together they're likely to slowly die off. But I imagine orc bandits and criminals plagued the lands of men for generations before that finally happened.
I think you could be certain it would happen for years after the fall of Sauron. Orc bands would survive and do the things they do, but it'd just be a simple matter of clean up by the local militia, as it was said; orcs are not much of a threat without numbers. Over time they would die off since they're incapable of cooperating on a scale necessary for long-term survival, but it wouldn't be a quick thing. They would eke out a pitiful existence of a hunter/gatherer simply because they aren't too picky about food and can use basic tools and weapons.
I suspect the orcs would kill themselves off. They seem to hold little to no love for each other, ready to carve each other up over greed and gluttony on the spot.
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -(John 3:16)
@@98cents⛄️
I think that the orcs would have gone back to a tribal way of life living in caves and mountains. The books even mentioned this with the goblin king as he ruled even without saurons influence. The same can be said with azog as he grew to be the orc chieftain of moria. Even though this all happened before the destruction of the ring, it can still be inferred that orcs are capable of hierarchies and discipline among ranks. So i think that most orcs would have just gone back to dark places and created their own civilizations untill they faded into obscurity as the next afe came to be.
The volcanic eruption would have been good for the region in the long run as it makes extremely fertile soil.
Your dad makes extremely good soil
Ask the people of la Palma (Canary Islands) just now. They have a volcano active first time since 1973.
Mordor being Mordor, lava will probably turn the land foul and sterile or some shit. Cause why not.
I’m pretty sure most of the ground just like fell into a gigantic country sized sinkhole
San Marzano Tomatoes are grown near Mt. Vesuvius
That is all.
From the conversation between Shagrat and Gorbag in the chapter "The Choices of Master Samwise" in 'The Two Towers': ‘They would,’ grunted Gorbag. ‘We’ll see. But anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What d’you say? - if we get a chance, you and me’ll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there’s good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.’
‘Ah!’ said Shagrat. ‘Like old times.’ I think the orcs would break up into small groups of those they could trust once Sauron and the Nazgûl were destroyed. They were kept together in large groups only by the will of Sauron and the fear he created. They won't trust the majority of other orcs and there will be conflict between scattered parties of orcs when the cross paths. Also, they will fear being hunted down by those they have been in conflict with for so long, elves, dwarfs, and men, and will avoid those races as much as possible. The end of the war of the ring is a true mass societal breakdown for the orcs in much the same way as a nuclear war would be for our society. Those that survive will have to depend on a few they can trust and fight of groups off other survivors bent on taking what they want or need.
Those two were among my favorite characters in the book. It humanized the orcs a great deal to hear them griping like you'd expect conscripted soldiers to gripe about how they got no respect or gratitude from their commanders and hated being oppressed by Sauron and the Nazgul as much as anyone else did. It's too bad that they had a falling out over Frodo's mithril shirt, I think a post-war "The Adventures of Shagrat and Gorbag", having them team up and trying to survive in that world would have made a great story. I still hope that Shagrat at least survived the war and got a relatively happy ending.
@@rofald I've seen it mentioned that his 'reward' for bringing the mithril shirt to Barad-dur was execution, but I'd like to know where that was confirmed by Tolkien.
@@Carandini I'd Imagine mail shirt and no ring meant adios
@@rofald that's would have been an amazing story lol
We see that already. Remember the tracker orc and the archer orc? They found the orc armor that the Hobbits left behind, and picked up Gollum's trail? The two argued and one killed the other and ran away. Sam told Frodo, and wished that type of friendliness would spread. Frodo reminded him that orcs left to themselves were always like that, clan against clan, but that they hated the Free Peoples everywhere and all the time.
The remnants would be as much trouble as small roving gangs of cutthroats are normally in our world. Bad for locals and local government, but until they interfere with tax collection and the King's Peace, it would remain a local problem.
They opened a few nightclubs and can be heard screeching on a Friday and Saturday night about "fresh meat" and "I saw him first"
🤣🤣🤣 yes I love it this made my day!
Including many heated arguments concerning the ownership of shiny shirts
And falling around drunk and being sick in the gutter!!
Black metal
And maggoty bread 😅😅✌
I mean if you read about what Tolkien's deleted lotr sequel was going to be about, it is said that the orcs and everything magical disappears over the ages and the lotr world becomes similar to our own. Kind of depressing in a way really and it makes sense why he didn't continue writing the sequel.
The world had already been on a steady decline since the First Age, when the magic/men/elves/orcs of those days were strong and Gods walked the earth. Fast forward to the Third Age and there's barely any elves left, the blood of Numenor has been diluted by time, and the Valar take little notice of things. It is depressing really, you're correct
When Tolkien writes that they "faded," he means that they were forced to give up their physical forms, but that their spirits continued to lurk in dark places, like ancient forests and deep underground in caves. The implication is that our modern mythologies are based on the spirits of the elves, orcs, and other magical creatures whose spirits still haunt the Fourth Age long after their bodies became dust.
No...no...wait...stahp...ya making me think Tolkien was actually writing a secret history of the world 😱
Though a tad eurocentric
@@TimaeusEXE He was initially with the book of lost tales, which he intended as a mythology for England. When he reworked that older material in light of LOTR into what we know now as the Silmarillion, he had abandoned that idea, but he still intended the history of ME and Arda to be our world in a lost era of the past (pre-flood).
@@CMHobbies well not everywhere in middle earth was written. Maybe authors from around the world can add their own cultures to and stories to Arda.
@@TimaeusEXE If he wrote about other cultures you'd jump down his throat for being a product of his time, a 20th century European linguist was "Euro" centric, you don't fucking say...
I know some of them survived till this very day! I grew up with one lol
I am one !!
I married one
Your dads one
@@Ghhyuttgg 😂🤣😂🤣 good one 👍
I'd run to a remote forest area and live there, hunting animals for food and minding my own business. That's what I'd do.
You know that Fangorn Forest royally wrecked the orcs/urukhai after fleeing helm’s deep and Isengard, right? ;) lol
Open a tavern in the backwoods. Learn to bathe and not be a complete prick and maybe I'd be allowed to live a long life. Imagine the stories I'd have.
That's pretty awesome
That's because you're not an orc... I hope lol
The problem with hiding alone is that a mere child might kill you one day family protection that's the only way anyone can actually survive for long. Not to mention inbreeding
Tolkien: "And they all lived, happily ever after."
Reader: "What happened to the millions of orcs and uruk hai?"
Tolkien: "Did I stutter?"
All the Uruk hai were killed in the battle of helms deep and the flood of isengard. The remainder of he orcs and trolls split into 3 groups. Some lived in minas morgul, misty mountains and what’s left of do gul dor.
@@thotslayer9922 gundabad ,Palisor
Tolkien did not consider his creations the orcs to be inherently or irredeemably evil they were enslaved by Sauron, Without him they should be able to listen to reason that they ended this way it's just sad
What was Aragorn’s tax policy though
@@lk3034 I see you like your fantasy with a side of boring
My understanding was that the magical humanoid races that remained in Middle-Earth didn't fade away (as in disappear) but gradually over the generations lost their uniqueness, becoming more and more human. It was commented in the Return of the King that Merry and Pippin were taller than previous generations of hobbits, for instance, and that this would likely continue until it was next to impossible to tell a hobbit from a human (and presumably until there was no actual difference between the two groups). If that is the case, the orcs would gradually have just become a perhaps particularly ugly or cruel scattered assortment of human tribes in desolate regions.
merry and pippin were taller because of the ent water they drank
I know a couple Hobbits. I think my grandmother was one. She was 5ft nothing.
We did a DnD campaign similar to this idea except in a different setting but with the same basic idea of controlled or commanded typically evil beings who are suddenly free. We had to come up with what our characters had been doing. I was playing a goblin who had taken over a small cave system near a village. One night the village was raided by bandits and the goblin took this as a chance to also raid the village for food. The bandits saw him and instead attacked the savage looking goblinoid names Ratgash. Ratgash defender himself and killed the bandit leader. A few of the townfolk saw a cloaked figure wielding a pair of hand axes brutally kill the chief of their enemy. Thus began the legends of "The Shadow that Cleaves". Women began leaving out food and gifts, med left extra game and children played games pretending to be their savior. Thus the story of Ratgash began.
Hey that's pretty cool
I love that you are named the dwarf but tell us a story about your time as an accidentally worshiped orc raider.
Cool
I would move up to hills, away from any contact and live there until one day my former orc general lands near my cabin with chopper and say that they are needing me for an important misson . First i would refuse ofcourse and then i'll accept it after hearing a convincing speech.
"You're getting old, John..."
Farming? Really? A man of your talents?
...and his name was Johnrag gra’ Rambogul
The Orcs are some of my favourite smaller characters in the books and movies
It is stated in The Silmarillion that the orcs secretly hated Melkor and served him out of fear.
With Sauron was probably the same.
Without some sort of powerful master, capable of subjugating them and putting them in servitude by fear, I think they would try to just survive.
The "rider" that the early elves believed was capturing their missing kin was in fact the Valar Oromë, before the elves found out about the Valar. They were terrified of Oromë at first, and mistakenly attributed the disappearance of their people to him.
That’s because Morgoth disguised himself as a giant rider and tortured and captured elves to instil in them the fear of the Valar and turn them away from sailing to Valinor.
@@khaelstorm2552 That was long long after the elves were already afraid of Oromë. Morgoth exploited their existing cultural fear of the sinister rider, which originates in them being scared of Oromë.
I once dreamt I had been given a job as a teacher - in Mordor. As I entered the country, there of course was no Mor-Annon (black gate) or particularly hostile creatures but the country itself felt kind of a bit aggressive and unfriendly.
However, this mitigated with time and couldn't prevent me from beginning my job.
I like the concept of tribes of orks in Sauron's armies from Shadow of War. I think they would war amongst each other staying in Mordor and where else they called home.
I think tribes are a natural arc for „wild" orcs. Some larger, some smaller and perhaps even some alliances here and there but only temporary like the battle of the five armies, sometimes uniting to plunder but mostly living alone with their kin/ some beasts with some raiding on the side.
Yes the typical infighting would that we saw in Cirith Ungol would have spread right through the whole race there was no 'bosses' to keep them inline and due to their aggressive and bullying nature towards those of their own race, so they could never have united under a single powerful orc leader
From a world building perspective, Orcs might devolve and evolve into other creatures of our mythology. Orcs might be confused with 'dark' elves or dangerous faeries hiding in the shadows or become more half orc-ish. Cannibalistic underground dwelling orcs could be those roving bands of baddies populating the upper levels of dungeons.
When Orgimm Doomhammer arrived we were all reunited. With our combined forces we travelled through a portal and discovered a land called Kalimdor. There were elves and stuff there too but united behind our war chief Thrall we were able to forge our own home lol.
Lol wow ...so guldan is here aswell
@@michaelroelant7134 How do you think Sauron got his power back after all that time? Guldan, obviously.
FOR THE HORDE!
The orcs, too, were enslaved by Sauron.Without him, I'd assume they scattered survivors would hide somewhere and become bandits. Preying on merchants and travelers that crossed their paths to survive, as well as killing wild animals. Some might find their way to whatever goblin societies survived, but their disorganization would basically turn them into small gangs, plagued with infighting. Out of all the non-human races, it probably makes the most sense that they'd "naturally" die out, as they would have no Dark Lord to organize and force their breeding on a scale sufficient to outmatch the continuous losses in whatever small population remained after the end of the war.
I dunno about the dying out part because I strongly suspect that the humans, elves and dwarves would start to fight each other seems that the most uniting factor they had in the third age was Sauron but not their shared friendship. The fellowship itself must have been a truly extraordinary sight and I think that, while some old alliances would be rekindled, the war against Sauron would be eventually followed by a period of infighting which would be the ideal time for the raiders hiding in the dark mountains not even the dwarfs wanted to claim as their own.
Yep, I would leg it as an Ork and go find a quiet forest somewhere - a place I could hunt and brew beer in peace. Basically I would stay the eff away
You mean, you'd stay the 'elf' away... eh? Ehh?...
I'll see myself out...
Yes. What did happen to them? I was quite frankly very curious about that. I hope they found a place to live and be happy. No one deserves to be miserable forever.
Volcanic eruption would be good for the soil around Mordor. Perhaps in time, the surviving Orcs turned in their swords for plowshares, and turned those foul lands into some of the richest farmlands in all of Middle Earth. Enough to make the hobbits green with envy!
It's great that you address the important question in the video description about what happened to the surfing orcs. I've also wondered about them - where they might still surf, if they still surf.
I was always curious about what happened to the remaining orcs.
I’m a huge Orc fan, love em in all universes from Warhammer, Warcraft, LotR, Elder Scrolls, etc. I even have Uruk helmets, horde symbols/sayings and such tattooed all over my right arm so I’m pretty biased on choosing a side. But I can say with 100% certainty I wouldn’t fight for the enslaver of the Orcs, if I had it my way I’d take whatever other Orcs wanted to go and head off the mountains and if it was self sustainable then stay, if not and men were hunting us down an we were withering away I’d find as many other Orcs as I could and start a bloody campaign of terror killing anything we found until we all eventually died out, days full of raided food, man flesh, and drink until dying in battle, not shriveling away in some mountain crevice
I'd stay in character and mindlessly attack passing Wizards, Elf Lords and Gravewalkers with my rusty lump of metal.
This is an excellent presentation, great content, well spoken and thought out.
I subscribed, looking forward to more.
I’ve been a fan or Tolkien since I was a little boy (I’m 54), but I’ve alway found it difficult to put the whole picture together, & his writings always leave me with a million questions & ponderings.
Enter you guys & one or two other Tolkien channels that I now follow. I might, or might not agree on any particular point, but the discussion, theorys & answers are Alway worthwhile knowing & considering.
I have many questions about Tolkien & his writings, so it’s nice to connect with folks who have ask the same sort of questions I do.
Thanks Guys, really appreciate your work.
Because I’m a contrary, cantankerous, cynical, old bastard… I’m going for option 3.
If I were an Orc that survived the last battle: I’d chose to defy my nature & nurture, and be Good; a protector & preserver of forests & all living things. It would be an extremely difficult road, a heavy load to bare, but maybe, it would a beginning of an atonement for what we Ors had done.
Is that allowed? =;->
Thanks again for the post.
I'm 60, and I've been a fan since I was 14. I have questions too, though suddenly I can't remember any.
It would be so interesting to see an early orc that was captured by the rider of Melkor mentioned in the beginning, stray close to their old home and recognizing their old family, kin, elf clan. What would that be like? Would they be so far gone and corrupted that they would forget their old life? It’s sad what happened to them, even if it’s just a story, it’s sad to think they were captured, stolen from everyone who loved and knew them, and tortured into corruption.
Didn't Tolkien say alot of the "modern" equipment of his time was the making of goblins?
Absolutely excellent vid always wondered what happened to the orcs afterwards 👍
Glad you enjoyed 😊
An answer will greatly depend on the intelligence I possessed as an Orc. Why fight when you could have a peaceful life with a family and friends. If they weren't hurting anybody I don't see any reason to eradicate them. And I think Aragorn would have thought the same way. He was extremely just and moral with what he had to deal with. We was not a vengeful or vicious man in anyway. I think he would have gone out of his way to make a treaty with the Orcs if they no longer wish to fight. By the way I just subscribed. Excellent video
I imagine he would want them to just *go* *away* ... "Hey boys, you can keep your weapons. Harad is that way, you can keep whatever you can take."
"Oh my head! Sauron had us under his control, I surrender. I'm tired of fighting and killing! I just want to live a regular life like the rest of you."
"Very well. But your all going to watched *very* closely from now on."
"Ugh, fine."
You're *
As I see , the orcs were very well organized. They can understand the concept of society, leadership, they can craft and maintain things, and form their enviroment to serve their broader goals as a folk. Althought usually the strongest one leads the group, they respect and fear the elder, and their knowledge about the world. So I am sure that they can operate as a team without Sauron. They can organize even complete kingdoms.
They established primitive kingdoms and their creations were always crude and very low quality. Well organized their societies were not.
Always thought a cool story would have been for a band of orcs to seek out Galadriel or Elrond. Having heard that their ancestors were elves, these orcs wanted to see if they could become elves once again, or find a way to undo the evils thatSauron and Morgoth had visited upon them. A group that weren’t evil, but lived on hope. Ah, well.
Exactly, that would be amazing and something I’d love to see.
Interesting idea.
I had a similar thought - orcs weren't created evil, they were twisted and forced into it, so in principle could they find redemption of any sort? Maybe it's also worth noting that humanity has (IIRC my canon) interbred with both orcs and elves, so there might be people with strong orcish or elvish traits for a long time to come.
I imagine Tolkien would have sent them to Middle Earth Oklahoma.
The way you narrate is good and engaging. Very eloquent and precise. Thank you 🙏🏾.
I think in the Misty Mountains and Grey Mountains fortresses of the Orc surely survided. I doubt that the few men in the North or the dwarves of Erebor and later those wo reclaimed Moria were nearly enough to controll these vast area with it endles caves. Since the Orcs survived both downfalls of Morgoth and Sauron (when he was "killed" during the destruction of Numenor and later during the War of the Last Alliance) I think they would stay on, maybe even gathering around stronger chieftains like Bolg or Azog before. But they would hardly be a greater threat until the day when the realms of men fall in internal confict (which they surely did sometimes).
Of course it is possible that some orcs cooperated with those men in the East and South who fought on for a generation after the fall of Sauron.
if the new age is the first without any dark lord, so there may have been an attempt to tame and cultivate the orcs. Not to be of any use, but to annihilate one of the Melkor's worst deeds, as part of the long healing process of Middle-earth.
Several months to a year after the fall of Sauron, Aragorn is awoken by someone.
"My king, thousands of orcs are outside the walls, we are under attack!"
Aragorn rushes out to see the "Attacking Army" and sees about a thousand orcs standing aways from the door not armed or armored. He and a large group of his friends, generals, and soldiers go out to meet them.
They ride up to the orcs who do not brace for combat. Aragorn comes to a halt in font of the group.
"What business do you have in my land?"
"We come to seek asylum and refuge in your land, we have run out of food and some are sick. We need help." an orc says.
Aragorn "uh...... I was not expecting that."
"
They need some manflesh huh?
That would be orcward
Lovecraft is held as being a despicable racist for analogising immigrants with disgusting sub-human creatures as you just did. _Here's your sign._
@@Twirlyhead what does Lovecraft have to do with this?
@@Twirlyhead also its political commentary on what's happening in America.
There was even a conversation between two in orcs about the old days are going out and Pondering so that concept of individuality was there some good one and done that
Question for The Broken Sword: how the orcs do multiply ? I know it's an awful process.
Tolkien mentioned in another book that there were female orcs, and they bred like any other intelligent species. Female orcs may have looked a lot like males, similar to dwarves, but Tolkien was never entirely clear about it. In his later years, he also made it clear that orcs were not inherently evil, as he believed any intelligent being was capable of redemption.
@@rikk319 I figured that replacement orcs were probably were probably created using a sort of cloning process from the original shattered and debased elves by morgoth using spells/magic, this would account for the seeming genetic drift into the ugly brutish creatures that we read about and see in the films.
@@rikk319 But how can they not be inherently evil when they were created by Morgoth, who doesn't have a shred of good in him
@@royalhero4608 they were not created by Morgoth, Morgoth couldn't create things, only manipulate...hence the "corrupted elves & men thing"...
Surviving underground must involve an interesting logistics chain, especially if you do not want to be noticed.
The Voice of Practicality.
I'd presume that Aragorn and Faramir (new heir to the throne of Rohan after marrying Eowyn), with their captains and generals, have devised a plan to commit to "crusades" essentially (as both are modeled after western cultures) to rid the known free world of the nefarious threats of Orc and Southmen alike. If anything, Aragorn and Faramir would spend much of their time building back the kingdoms of Rohan and Gondor, strengthening their alliances, and also pursuing any intelligence they might gather about the remnants of Sauron's armies, whether committing to banditry or carving their own kingdoms within the free world of men.
Such dangerous enemies, if I were in the position of Aragorn or Faramir, I would not allow to continue existing, knowing that such a threat would destabilize and cause a nuisance, even if they do fade with time going into the 4th Age of Middle Earth.
As an orc, I would fully expect raiding parties of men to pursue me and my kin relentlessly. So better to go into exile and never return for another pointless war against a people who, until the point of the destruction of the ring, were defiant to the end, even in the face of death and defeat. Especially for leaders and influences so vile and spiteful that goes against my own self-preserving interests as an orc.
Didn't Eomer get the throne of Rohan?
Something to think about before I sleep tonight. Glad I stumbled onto this video
I've imagined Tolkien, in his unfinished sequel to the LOTR, might have had the diminished spirit of Sauron finally gather just enough strength to possess a fierce Orc leader and gather the remaining Orcs in and around Mordor to launch an attack on the West in a war of revenge against men. Specifically against the line of Aragorn. Maybe they could have enlisted the help of a few remaining trolls, and maybe even goblins. The men, led by Aragorn's son Eldarion, are initially driven back, with a few cities destroyed. But the dwarves arrive with a large host, accompanied by the few remaining elf warriors still in Middle Earth. Maybe even have one of Samwise's sons be at the king's side during the last battle, when the last of the Orcs of Middle Earth are destroyed. Maybe Tolkien could have had the Blue Wizards return from the East, and together with Radagast, they exorcise Sauron's spirit from the Orcs and forever banish it into the shadows, never to return.
It would have been epic!
I like that.
Sadly I suspect no. Tolkien had a fierce turn of heart about evil before he died. He didn’t believe in “born evil and unredeemable evil.” Without Suaron to control them, I suspect future orcs would have been more free to be who they want. Some good some bad.
As a tolkien fan I'd love to see that too however Sauron and his spirit was completely destroyed after the 3rd age. Tolkiens last work was about a human sorcerer playing with dark magic and he wouldn't have any kind of influence that could match Sauron's. The orcs and trolls were controlled by Saurons will and he had to fight and coierce the Haradrim, the variag of khand, and Easterlings to his cause..he wouldn't have all that military power to create a huge uprising against the new Gondor and Rohan therefore it wouldn't make sense...which is why I believe tolkien and his family works didn't bother writing about that sequel...
I thought Sauron was just severely diminished to the point that he would never be able to harm mankind, at least not on his own.
@@wingates8399 No sauron was defeated 3 times and the last one was his final straw on middle earth
Without saurons control I'd take hold of and organize the orcs under my reign and build deep in the earth setting up in caves, expanding and growing population under the crust for years until growth reaches past what was placed in Mordor or with morgoth sustaining itself and defending. But considering the later events and available options for orcs later on it's doubtful this would work
If I were an Orc in the Fourth Age, I’d probably just travel east and look for any remnants of the missing two blue wizards. Cuz what else am I gonna do?
That's kind of a sad and miserable ending, not just for the orcs but for all the other magical races too
I can only imagine that as the elves and dwarves diminished to the west, the orca and other such beasties scuttled to the deep dark holes and caves. I can almost see them living amongst themselves in warring underground nomadic tribes. I never saw them as the diplomatic type.
we saw the cowardice of the orcs at the battle for ministirith while souron was alive let alone when there master had been Deleted, so this leads me to believe i would hide in a hole for the rest of my days without guidance of my master i am but a lonely orc lol
I think there's an Orc working behind the bar in my local pub !!!!
7:00 Assuming the “Architect” of Shadow of War would be in any way possibly canonical, i’d fall into his company, traveling, researching, and building. Or if anything, just train a bunch of Ologs to do work, get a former Easterling to head our operation, and do manual labor.
We know the orcs survived after the defeat of Sauron since they return to serve Morgoth in Dagor Dagorath. As you say, they likely hid underground. I think the orcs willingly joined Sauron due to how Sauron is Morgoth's second in command. Therefore, orcs can make their own choices but like to stick with large packs (army legions) to avoid being persecuted by men, elves, and dwarves. If I was an orc survivor, I would run far east where the Easterlings live and live underground. Many orcs are not idiots since we know orc leaders such as Azog, Bolg, and Gothmog displayed a level of intelligence. The orc leaders most likely voice their own opinions to Sauron and the Nazgul during war strategies.
Love the content and happy im in the 19%!! Keeps it up guys!! FOR FRODO!!!
Thank you! 😊
What about for your dad
If i were one of the surviving orcs i would hide in a cave with some other orcs maybe and live there. I would not bother the free people of middle earth. i would just let them be as long as they let me be as well.
Orcs probably became like they are in DND/Skyrim, a disconnected and roving series of family-clans (the orc version, at least). The amount of crime is probably high at the beginning but after 4-500 years I’m sure they’re way more pushed back and less of a threat.
Since I am sitting already most of the time inside (and writing books), hiding in a dark place sounds pretty cozy to me :D
Today you asked a really strange q😂? But I think I would try to survive, I mean orc's are not heroes so.....I donk know! As always great video, love to see this old videos of yours that helped you become as big as you are now!!!!!
There is one really important question that no one seems to take into consideration. The orcs of the Third Age are descendants of captured, enslaved and brutalized elves (probably dark elves who never saw the light of Valinor). As beings of elfish blood shouldn’t they have inherited the most important aspect of the elves? Their immortality? I never read anything about the life span of an orc but shouldn’t it be the life span of their elven fiends?
Their ties to elves was an issue Tolkien never really resolved. He tried to retcon by tying them to humans, but it didn't work and he dropped that idea.
I would have thought that over time the legacy of elvish immortality in them would wane just as elvish strength, stealth, skill, wisdom and intelligence seems to have waned. Also they are still vulnerable to death by violence and given that Morgoth/Sauron use them as cannon fodder the "original" orcs would be long gone.
The issue of orc replacement is linked to thes, normal sexual reproduction seems unlikely so I figured that replacement orcs were created by some sort of cloning process created by Morgoth/Sauron through the use of magic and spells and artifice.
They likely either retained Elvish immortality (and probably low birth rate) and tended to die of violence more than anything else, unless Morgoth's experiments broke their immortality as well. I believe I read something once about them having a place in the Halls of Doom after they died, like Elves and Men do, but that they might spend many more years in that place to recover their lost selves before being allowed to rejoin the other elves in the rest of Valinor. Perhaps the Valar used similar methods to call them home to those they used with other Elves - voice of the sea, visits from Orome, messengers like the wizards.
I'd probably take an abandoned fort somewhere in the mountains and go from there either living in solitude or taking in others who are astray
Nearly 100k subs on October 28, 2021. Now it's January 7, 2021, just over two months later, and you have 119k subs. Nice growth spurt! Keep up the great content.
If I’m an Orc then I am SUEING to get to the undying lands.
Morgoth wasn’t my fault. Ya’ll should’ve stopped him. Sauron wasn’t my fault, ya’ll should’ve stopped him.
How dafuq am I supposed to stand against an Angel??
Nah, take me to those islands. It’s as much mine as it is yours.
Violently trying to force yourself into the Undying Lands would get you nowhere. But there is a case to be made that orcs, after death, lay in the Halls of Doom, and that over time they may have been brought out of there, once their minds and souls were sufficiently healed of the damages done to them that, as you said, weren't their fault (originally).
I think that the Orcs fled to the dark depths of Middle Earth. Probably devolving into creatures who fed on buried dead bodies of men and women. Giving rise to the myths and legends of Ghouls from folklore.
if orcs are twisted versions of elves i wonder what their natural life span was ? i mean left unharmed do they just live forever or for millennia at least ?. damn i do love me some LOTR art , as there's some really good stuff out there
Even with the ring destroyed, Sauron can still come back anytime with help from his followers. Imagine orks using muskets and gun powder, or modern guns, drones and fighter jets. Imagine these kinds of sequels.
If I was an Orc, I would do one of two things:
1. I would sail west to Valinor. This is an if, which is why I have two options instead of one. If this route is available, and if the Valar be merciful, I would make my way to Mithlond to find the straight road. Whether I would be allowed to board an elven ship, or if I must make my own and sail alone. I do not know what my fate would be, but I would hope to find peace. Even if I must wait for the final ship, I would wait if that's what it took.
2. If that is not an option, and Middle-Earth must forever be my home, I would conquer Nurn (within Mordor) and use the fertile lands to create a Kingdom of my own. Depending on my lifespan, be it of Man, Elf, or akin to Dunedain, I would take up craftsmenship of my own style even if my results are crude and horrid (surely I will get better with time).
I would more than likely see Sauron as a divine figure and worship him. thinking that Sauron had ascended to a higher state of being since; more than likely not many orcs knew what was going on at the time except that he was present in Middle earth. and to be honest most of the time he was in a spiritual form in the shape of a burn eye with Ghost servants that did everything he asked.
As an orc, I’d start a restaraunt showcasing Mordor cuisine to my new Gondorian friends.
Terry Pratchett had a book where a surviving orc plays a big role. He’s actually the hero of the story. And a really nice bloke. Nurture/nature thing
I like to think that the orcs as tolkien intended weren't inherently evil. Like us they are a product of their environment. Once souron was destroyed I believe his influence over the orcs would eventually fade.
They may still be more aggressive but would be able to listen to reason.
I had the same thought process. I would love to someday read a story about such a world, where the true darkness fell and it’s servants became changed by it’s absence.
They may not be inherently evil but they do seem to be incapable of good.
If I was an Orc at this time, I'd like to think that I'd become like "Shrek", peacefully living alone in a bog somewhere.
they evolved into hockey fans and pro wrestlers.
I'd create my own faction, and then over time gain the"trust" (I say for lack of a better word) of King Elessar and assist him in conquering Harad and Rhun. :)
If the Shadow of War and Shadow of Mordor are reliable to pull off of in regards to the structure of orc society, the orc would fade due to infighting, with orcs fighting for survival and ambition.
This would not only remove the gene pool but also the number of males available
"They multiplied..." - how, exactly, do orcs multiply? This is one of those things about which Tolkien fell quite short in explaining.
"For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar; and naught that had life of its own, nor the semblance of life, could ever Melkor make since his rebellion in the Ainulindalë before the Beginning: so say the wise."
Tolkien himself also said in a letter that "there must have been orc women". With the quote from the letter, and that quote provided by Jaxson, orcs almost most definitely multiply just like we do.
@@nathaniellong4281 Maybe not precisely. I know when ICE was expanding on Tolkien's material, their tack was the orcs didn't breed except when there was some greater power (ie, Sauron or a really tough orc warlord like Azog or Bolg) to basically demand they start making more orcs. The biological urge may not have been innate, but had to be compelled. This would pretty much have to be the case if orcs have no natural lifespan but, like elves, are immortal in terms of age and disease. Otherwise they'd simply be way too many of them to ever overcome - or for any food supply to sustain.
Didn't the movie show orcs pulling other orcs out of gooey sacks down by the forges at what's his name's tower that was overun by the Ents? That seemed to me like a production/factory/cloning procedure taking place?
Breed like rats and humans, even caged
As far as I know Tolkin was religious man. So he believed that nobody was beyond salvation. Even Orcs. Without Saurons will and his command I would repent.
FYI the MMO game Lord of the Rings Online has a lot of players that post their videos on RUclips. One guy retraced the steps of Frodo/Sam from The Shire all the way to Mt Doom. Several vids but really cool if you are a LotR lover.
The game, although older, gives an accurate portayal of Middle Earth and it is visually pleasing. It was a lot of fun seeing all the places in the books/movies-
If you want to see The Shire and Frodo's house, you can. Same for Frodo and all the other Fellowship'ers
“Almost 100k” i’m watching this a year in the future when you’re at 223k and climbing 🔥👑
It would be interesting to have seen an orc defy sauron and fight for elf or man.
What would I do if I was an surviving orc?
I would roll for stats and see if I could become a bard
So you probably don't want to but you need to do a video, or series, looking at the parallels & metaphors between the war in Ukraine & Tolkien's Legendarium. The latter is directly relevant on multiple levels to current events.
Without a strong leader like Sauron or Morgoth, I think it most likely that the surviving orcs would have chosen to find a dark hole and lay low.
I would try to find the nicest orcs and have my own group well away from anyone, in a good defensible location, with multiple exits and backup hideouts. Then build a normal society, farming, mining trading etc, never attacking anyone first, but with enough troops who are well-trained to make folks think twice about attacking. I would let our presence be known to Aragorn, but since he is a nice guy and we don’t bother anyone, and because our defenses and remote location, an attack would be way too costly he would just leave us alone, eventually we would even start trading with Gondor and the education system would be improved. Our main threats would be rival bands of orcs and evil men. If we could grow strong enough in secret to where simple gangs wouldn’t be able to defeat us Aragorn would be a useful ally as he would much rather have nice orcs near his borders then evil ones. Also any orc that attacks us is one few to attack Gondor, so it would be in his interest to keep us around.
Orcs farming? Fresh sweet hobbit meat maybe, yeah 🤣
@@MrMarkeZG I mean, you joke, but meat farmers are a real thing: ranchers, herders, etc. So, if the preference for meat is actually a thing, (and not just a product of them basically being slaves with limited access to enough food or high-quality protein) maybe you have orcs end up being known as the best ranchers and herders around, raising cattle, sheep, and goats. Seems like they'd be better able to handle larger animals like cattle than the hobbits would.
To clarify, I'm more thinking this would be a niche they would fill because they were willing and able to, and makes practical use of the stereotypes held by the other races about the orcs. I'm sure there'd be orks who want to farm, or write, or be accountants, or whatever. I mean, the massive armies of Mordor, stationed in places that don't grow food, and then undertaking campaigns, requires and implies the existence of scribes/clerks organizing logistics on some level. You can't keep 100,000 troops alive in a rock desert without bringing in a crap ton of food and water and distributing it reliably. Plus armor, weapons, etc. Compared to Rohan or Gondor, the orcs arguably have a more highly developed skill in logistics, out of need. They just don't give a crap about the aesthetics in the same way.
Maybe that's another niche they'f fill, lol. The bean counters and quartermasters in the armies of other nations. No human would want to argue with an orc quarter master about their rations. You'd be afraid he'd either bite your head off, or go into a long diatribe about "When I was your age, I survived off of half that in a day, while walking uphill, both ways!, to sentry duty. Through lava! I didn't spend 500 years eating maggoty bread just to hear you bellyache that you didn't get enough beans! And you get meat in your rations! When I was in Sauron's army, the only meat we ever saw was armed with swords and trying to kill us! Kids these days...."
Some probably decided to live a simple life and live in a large tree. Then, probably, befriend a donkey and have adventures together....
I did make an orc character, I called him Mellon, a name he himself chose when asked by the rangers who found him what they should call him
He chose the word they used to refer to himself when he surrendered to them
He was taken to Rivendell as the idea of a friendly orc who was learning elvish was enough to spark interest, he lived there as a servant for the time of the lord of the rings until he asked to be put away as he felt the urge to leave back to Mordor, after the ring was cast away though he stayed in Rivendell housing and serving any elves who passed through or stayed in middle earth until he passed away spending the last few decades of his life i peace and helpful service, feeling good.
I saw an orc the other day. Pushing a shopping cart and asking people for a quarter and a cigarette
I don't think the Orcs were that dangerous without a "leader" like Sauron.
My understanding is that they were descended from elves that had been captured by the first dark lord and had the elves dependence on pressence of Valanor. Once that had been cut off from middle earth, then the orcs could no more survive than the elves.
I thought Aragorn planted a seed that made Modor fertile again? Please anyone elaborate on that.
he jerked off and came on the land. So it flourished forever after all.
He gifted the land of nurnen(within Mordor) to freed slaves and orcs.read the appendices to lotr people!
You still see orcs in the towns and cities of Middle-Earth - usually working in all-night ethnic fast food outlets or clothes shops.
A lot ended up as cheap labour in the agricultural sector.
Some achieved fame as sportsmen; orcs are inherently the ultimate team players.
What its like to serve Sauron from an orc's perspective has been on my mind since i saw the animated film when it came out in 78.
Makes me wonder what would happen if Film Azog commanded Sauron’s forces at Minas Tirith.
Azog was a lot smarter than Gothmog.
Your dads a lot smarter
The books said The Witch King was commander of the Morgul army, and only after he was destroyed did Gothmog take over--but nowhere does Tolkien state what race Gothmog was--I always assumed he was one of the other Nazgul--why would you have an orc as second in command, when there are eight other Nazgul to use?
would make a small base in some part of nurn taking advantage of the fertile soil With a few trustworthy orcs would start a village with more civilized trade and laws aimed at establishing an alliance with Aragorn taking care of other aggressive orcs remaining.
My theory is that the Orcs eventually turned back into Elves. Since they all originated from Elves in the first place. Taken by the dark powers. With the Dark Lord Sauron destroyed, there was nothing to keep the Orcs rooted in shadow, and so slowly as the year past, the Orcs we're naturally bred out and Elves were their eventual descendents. They came out of their caves more and more, appearing less like Orcs and more like Elves. Building cities, towns, tending fields, engaging in commerce, and eventually making peace with the kingdoms of Men. With that, they also would eventually regain the Light of the Eldar, achieving immortality and also sailing from the Grey Havens to the Undying Lands, and begin the reunification with their Elven brethren. With many stories to tell, Frodo, having also achieved the Light of the Eldar, would write and publish these stories told by these Orc descendents. Which would make their way to Middle Earth and to Gondor, to reach the hands of Aragron's great great grandson Athindel (I made that name up) who gave up the his ruling throne to create a democratic state called The Ruling Council, and establishing the Supreme Constitution of Middle Earth.
A bloody last stand is the most orcy way to go out.
I'm not sure what I would do if I was a surviving ork. It's difficult to imagine what it's like to be entralled in mind and body to a dark power, to the point of being driven to evil, or what I'd do if suddenly freed. If I were me, I guess I'd go find a dark hole and eke out an existence for the rest of my days. Or just commit suicide, I guess. I doubt humans would tolerate my existence enough to allow me to live and work among them.
You're the only commenter I've seen so far that recognizes that the orc mindset is twisted far from what the commenter's own mindset is, by lifetimes of abuse. It would be a tremendous feat of will to step out of that cycle and seek something better.
I always saw it as without the dark lord bending them to his will, they were as free as the other races. There was the issue of their natural aggression, but since their culture was shattered, I could see it as there were probably a lot of different orcs doing a lot of different things. They were essentially trying to recover from a cultural apocolypse. I could see some hiding and trying to stay hidden. I could see groups of them becoming raiders. I could see some of them going back to a tribal type life like those in the misty mountains. And perhaps the most fascinating to me, I could see some of them trying to make a life for themselves in the world of man. Their success with that however.....
If I were a surviving orc, I'd rally whatever remaining orcs I could and join the fight in the Misty Mountains
Hernan Cortez crushing the Aztec empire with 200 men shows that you don’t always win a battle with shear numbers alone
DOo you think after some time maybe the Orcs weren't so hostile because there master is dead maybe they try an make peace with the Men. I think that would be pretty cool
They apparently know what a menu is.
I think corrupt officials in Minas Tirith would import them in record numbers, as cheap labour, they would slowly replace the people of Gondor, until the kingdom no longer resembled the glory that made it what it was. Sauron would have won through multiculturalism.