The philosophical hunter. I like it. Old school, Geezer here. I have watched all of the hype and fads over the last 60 years. Long shooting Game, a reliance on technology rather than hunting skills has its expected results. Desert Dog , you speak older than you are. That is a good thing. This Geezer ,an old time Bull Elk Guide and hunter.
Easily one of the best hunting/gun channels on RUclips. You have more practical based knowledge and experience that the real boots on the ground hunter can relate to. All of this being in your own opinion is also the opinion of a majority of us sportsmen afield. Great content! Cheers from Canada eh 🍻🇨🇦👍🏻
It's like walking into the fishing takle store and realizing that most of the gear in there is to catch fisherman... not fish. With a .270 I use ELD-X for target shooting and Nosler Partition for hunting. I hunt where 400 yards is not even a posible shot. Long range is for fun not hunting.
For bass fishing, I can never catch anything outside of plastic worms, spinners and top water when the conditions are right. Everything else is to catch $$$. For deer in western Oklahoma, we have had extremely good success with a simple .243 Win out to 400 yards for the whole family. We either use ballistic tips or Federal fusion and never lost one. Plenty of energy at 400 yards, but also does great at 25 yards. The low recoils means no flinch. I also occasionally use a 270, and lost or nearly lost deer in the 80’s or 90’s on close shots with the bullets blowing up even though placement was good, but at 350 yards, the same bullet would blow a hole the size of a soccer ball. Good bullet construction is a must. I think with the .243, the jackets are proportionately thicker than in larger calibers giving great performance when the same bullet in a bigger caliber would blow up., plus I believe there has been improvements on some such as the ballistic tip. My deer this year was at 100! Yards frontal with a 270 ballistic tip that entered to the left of the left shoulder and exited just in front of the right hip with no meat damage and instant kill. My young son took a large trophy at 296 yards with his 243 95 grain ballistic tip. Yet, I have coworkers that say you can’t kill deer without a 300 win mag, and they hunt thick timber in western Oklahoma where a 30-30 would suit them better.
@@terrybritton1355 precisely. You want your terminal velocity to match your expected target distance. I see a lot of people with .300 win mags under 100 yards - when that cartridge is well within its fragmentation velocities. A .30-30 will deliver an ideal projectile at ideal velocities at that distance. I get the sense that a lot of bullet construction design is simply to cater to ignorant people. - People will choose the biggest fastest highest KE cartridge they can buy - and all of that is imparted onto the bullet You end up trying to design a bullet that won’t self destruct on impact, rather than the bullet performing optimally at its ideal velocity.
The ol Partition is still doing it's job. That's what, 70 years old? Thanks for the vid, I needed that. [Edit] I decided to put your concept to the test and crunched the numbers from a hunting perspective, using two bullets out of my 308. Both 165 gr, one a flatbase, the other a slick boat tail. Point blank range set at 3 inches. The flatbase went 270 yards. But that slick and sexy boat tail went a whopping 270 yards. 🤪 Those BCs don't kick in soon enough for us hunters to bother with, unless BC in this case stands for Bullet Construction.
I absolutely love your opinion of the ELD-X. I used it to hunt with for awhile and have taken 5 muleys and a bull elk with it. I’ve hunted with a lot of different bullets over the years and I deemed the ELD-X the worst bullet I’ve ever hunted with. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to South Africa in March and I took my .280AI loaded with 160gr partitions and was able to take 8 animals shots ranged from 120-310 yards the partitions performed flawlessly. I really like all your videos but this one has been my favorite. I’ve been arguing these points for quite a while now.
No mather what Cal ( My min is 7 mm ) Some times the best bullet isn't the most acurate. I still hunt with a 1917 Enfield in 30-06 and it gave me a hard time to get it to 1 moa. Factory first and handloads later. The sweet spot was 165 Speer Grand Slams. To tough to expand properly on deer. Went to backbone, neck and head shots, Problem solved because it is so accurate that confidence in hiting exactly the aming spot got my game. Will have to start over soon as they dont make them anymore. Mind bogling choice of new bullets, Whish me luck
The best bullet is a well placed one and it’s only through lots of practice that this can happen and not through the latest and greatest new guns, calibers!
DD, you make these videos so interesting and informative this is one of my favorites because you were spot on with what ammunition manufacturers have been doing for so many years. I can say I have learned a great deal on just about every level concerning hunting and hunting gear from your videos. I am also very happy I applied your suggestions to my gear and cartridge selections, when you explain it it all makes damn good sense. Thank you.
Desert Dog, Thank you so much for all your videos, they have helped me a great deal to cut through the ammo marketing crap, and not be dragged through a long path of figuring things out through my own mistakes, I prefer to learn from others.
I push the 30-30 to 150 yds, Old eyes not helping much, 30-06 a bit farther. Where I hunt 150 yds way out yonder, on the market fo a fine 1x8 scope, one for each. When you spook game at 30-40 yds open sights or a 1X scope will get you on target. 8X ? If I go wisit my daughter in WY might come in handy
So well said! It really is refreshing to hear someone come out and publicly speak the truth. In every single instance my top priority when reloading cartridges is: do I have a good quality bullet? Sometimes my go to bullet doesn’t workout for whatever the reason might be, so if I have to choose an alternate bullet my criteria for a well constructed “hunting” bullet remains constant. I just will not back off this very basic principle.
Great video!! I'm basically a whitetail hunter and for the last 40 years have taken most of my deer at less than 200 yards with the Remington core lokt mostly in 270, 308 and 30:06 calibers. Never saw a reason to change to a more expensive ammo. It has always done the job for me even at longer distances on my 3 trips to New Mexico mule deer hunting.
When a new potential hunter asks me what rifle caliber and ammo they should get I reply with my usual answer. Choose a good quality bolt action in a standard caliber and use soft point bullets (for deer). That advice has never disappointed. You are spot on when you said shot placement and bullet construction are the top two factors for ethical hunting. Great video.
Just found your videos yesterday while off work with Covid, have been binge watching and subscribed today. I like your practical and simple approach for what is necessary for ethical hunting. Thanks for the great videos!
Great video. Back to the basics! Remington core lokt with flat base bullets have probably killed more big game at practical ranges than any other ammo. Most hunters had no clue what the BC and SD even was. They just put it in the vitals and retrieved their animal.
DD, I'm a hunter/shooter from New Zealand and I really enjoy your videos. In my opinion you're one of the most sensible firearms professionals on RUclips. I especially like your attitude towards ethical hunting distances. Unfortunately, there are alot of guys down here who would much rather take a deer at 800 yards, than stalk within MPBR of their particular cartridge.
Wisdom is not always possible to pass without personal experience, so there will be a ton of people who will try to find reasons why to dissagree. To me, big thumbs up!
Many many thanks for your informative and completely competence. I'm a German hunter, a blue collor lumberjack and I'm hunting since 1976. In this decades I used a lot of rifles, bullets in different calibers. To be honest, - in my first times I often failed or missed ! If the shot is pointed in the deadly target-area, the animal drops down and die fast and painless. This area is different in every species, and so you have to aim. Very good books about wrote by Kevin Robertson "The perfect shot".
Hey D.D. great video. Judging by the amount of grey on our chins we're probably about the same age. I agree with everything you said in relation to B.C, Energy, and Velocity. However I never gave much thought about S.D. in it's relation to the bonded core or Partition style bullets; I think you have a valid point there as well. I admit that having grown up with cup and core bullets I always reverted back to bullets with higher S.D. numbers. I recon that I'll have to think about your theory a little bit. I know you've heard this before but you have one of the best hunting channels out there and I appreciate the work that you put into it. Take care and be safe!
Just now seeing this, and your work, and stellar, boiled-down delivery, are both unique and captivating. This, is probably the most important tutorial on not just the hype of hunting, but the fundamentals of what's really going (and important) during the exercise of hunting. For some reason, young hunters (the ones seemingly driving and parroting the new, techie cartridges) don't want hunting to be to much effort, or too messy. Understanding a quarry's behavior, defense, and the best tactics for stalking and successfully defeating them--in THEIR element--is just more than they want to deal with. Added to this, is the "sexiness" of futuristic rifle builds designed to snipe, rather than hunt, and the glorification of combat sniping in recent wars with young solders returning home...and it seems to add up to a foundation for the current environment. 300-400 yards and less. The same old cartridges. Mebbe that's become too boring...
Great video, loved the topic. I agree with you and I have really turned away from the new high speed cartridges, I was looking at buying the 28 nosler when I realized I don't need anything like that for 300 yds and in.
I've gone back to traditional blued and walnut. From what I've seen down here in NZ, stainless steel rifles these days tend to show signs of rust more readily than blued. I have a Ruger Compact .308 and a Steyr Mannlicher 7x64 and both of those rifles stand up to moisture better than a stainless kimber hunter .280 AI I used to own.
I have owned a .338 win mag and a 7mm remington mag and a 300 win mag. I no longer own any of them because living in Colorado I didn't need them. I gave my .300 to my son and got rid of the other two. If I need magnum power I use my .35 Whelen but otherwise I just use my 30-06 or a .275 Rigby (7x57). Nothing I'll ever hunt in the lower 48 will require more than these rifles have to offer.
Great vid sir. As being an older hunter, I totally agree with many of your thoughts many cartriges and rifles have killed meat for me for 40+ years. But always use simple ammo at inside 300 yrds. Thank you sir
I love your videos. Very informative. I've been shooting Nosler partitions out of my Winchester model 70 Super Grade 30-06 for years. If it's not broke don't fix it. Greetings from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
I know this is an old video. Just saw it. You bring up a lot great points and I am seeing a lot archery and firearm overlapping. After practically bouncing an arrow off a deer I knew I had to go a different route. I’m had found a RUclips channel called the Ranch Fairy a long with the Dr. Ashby foundation. They talk about heavy arrows. One of the biggest points they make is arrow and broadhead integrity just like what you said about bullet integrity. Dr. Ashby was the one that helped legalize archery hunting in Africa. Thank you for all of your knowledge that you are sharing.
I always knew that firearms manufacturers were hyping everyone. Your concise and clear enunciation of the facts put truth to power. I have sub'd to your site. BTW: I have made it a point to leave remarks for all the "hunters" who brag about 500+ yard shots. Unethical and 1 in 50 success stories that don't get said. Thanks again!
10 inch pie plate for target has been a long time hunting standard for ethical wild game hunting. Terminal ballistics is the deciding factor on bullet types that create ethical game hunting. I’ve always believed in the right bullet, for the right purpose, in the right cartridge, at the correct velocity with appropriate terminal impact, all along with shot placement. I’ve never been sold on marketing and the trigger word like high BC. Hunters should know their terminal impact distances on targets for delivered energy as well as what their bullet is made of, not necessarily what the bullet is marketed for. Great video! 👍🏻😃
Just as a sidenote I like the old "pound feet" calculation to determine relative power of various cartridges. I think it was first promoted in Field and Stream magazine back in the 30's. Pound Feet is determined by multiplying the bullet weight (in grains) and velocity (in feet per second) and then divide the result by 7000. Of course this number is relative, meaning that similar bullet construction and shot placement is implied.
@@hillbillyscholar8126 Even at that, Bullet construction is much more important. Like stated in the video; total energy doesn't matter, it's the RATE that the energy is delivered. You can shoot 2 bullets that hit with 2500ft/lbs on an elk - but one might blow up on the shoulder and one might pencil right though with no energy dump. The problem with all of these theoretical metrics, is that none of them account for bullet construction.
Excllent points...in 28 years of hunting up here in Alaska most of my shots have been less than 200 yards. This past fall I shot my caribou at 120 yards and my bull moose at 160 yards.
DD, another great video. As you said numerous times, "ethical hunters"! My practice distances at the range go out to 300yds. I limit myself to 300yds because I'm hunting, not targeting deer at ridiculous distances. My 7x57 is scoped with a 1.25-4x24, a perfect rig out to 300yds. This was a great explanation for ethical hunters. Take care!
Great show, and your right, back in the day, S.D. helped you choose a deer, elk, ...etc.., With the advent of the Fed. TLR Edge, (an old Ackley designed bullet.) May very well be the best designed hunting bullet out there... What is so funny is the Nosler Partition has always been under B.C., its actual bc is way higher than what they advertise, a great bullet.
Thank you for ironing out all this and yes hunting is at an all time ethical low point.ive been all over the place with what I use growing up in Tx hunting I started out on the 22-250 moved on into magnum mania now I'm 45 killed lots of game and I now use and stand firmly behind a wonderfully accurate rem 700 titanium 24" 3006 it flat out dead bang flop right there works out to 400 yards which I think is my Max limit 99% of the game I've shot were between 150-200 yards I use a 150 hr accubonds at an honest 3000 fps ( why I use a 24" 3006) that shoot 5 shots in one 1/2"hole at 100 yds. can take the same gun with a few clicks on my Zeiss 4.5-14x44 scope and I'm on point with 180 gr accubonds for the real big stuff.
Love your channel and how you stand by the basics and traditions. If someone can't get within 200 yards of any game animals they should not be hunting. A slight gust of wind and miscalculation at even 500 yards could cause a wounded game animal. To me 200 yards is the max ethical distance for most hunting scenarios. Punching paper at 500 yards or 800 yards at a range off a bench on a warm sunny day is different then shooting across canyons with varying gusts and thermal drafts. Not worth the risk of wounded the animal in my opinion. What happened to the art of stalking and stealth. It's called hunting not shooting.
Amen!! it's hard to beat a Nosler partition or a Barnes Tsx for larger game, or a simple cup and core bullet for deer and medium game. Most deer are killed inside 200 yards. With these re brand match bullets all you are doing is wasting money. Where the BC's matter and these match rebrands become useful is in competition or tactical or law enforcement situations. Which has absolutely nothing to do with hunting to begin with. I don't understand why companies like Hornady push bullets like the ELDx towards hunters. In my opinion these companies set uninformed and young hunters up for failure. They are also encouraging unethical behavior! It's about using the right tool for the job and being ethical. The whole point of hunting is ethics.
You truly hit the nail on the head with this video!!!! You need to redo this video so hopefully common sense may sway marketing. As always great video.
100% agree with the ELD-X. I stopped using it for hunting. Never seen as much meat damage ever as I seen with the ELD-X bullet. Went back to partitions.
My buddy just went to Texas for a whitetail hunt with his 25-06. His dumb ass forgot to pack ammo and was forced to buy some at a local gun shop. All they had was ELD-X. After re-zeroing his scope, he shot a deer on the first day right in the point of the shoulder and the deer ran 200 yards before he could put another shot into the lungs. That first shot blew-up on the shoulder and only penetrated a few inches, allowing the deer the run on 3 legs for some distance before it stopped. Stay away from the ELD!
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Thats exactly my experience with ELD-X, along with massive meat damage. Great bullet for punching paper if your rifle likes it. But terrible on game no matter the caliber.
My favorite eastern Whitetail rifle is a 7mm 08 loaded with 175 grain accubond bullets. I only get 2300 fps but I get very consistent expansion and penetration. This works better than most anything on quartering shots.
Interesting you started your video comparing Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets to Barns TSX, because that's how I started my hunting. I loaded 140gr Ballistic Tips for my 7x57 and immediately had failures with shoulder shots on deer and hogs. Fortunately I didn't loose any game but I did move up to 150gr Ballistic Tips. Soon I heard about Barnes bullets and switched to a 140gr solid copper projectile. After that I had a run of 7 one shot kills on Black Tail deer. These slugs go through both shoulders of a deer and they drop right in their tracks when hit like that. I've also dropped a couple of black bears in the same manner with this load. A lot of people I used to hunt with used 7mm Rem Magnums and I saw several failures on close range shoulder shots on deer, even with Nosler Partition bullets. The slug blew up on the animals shoulder and didn't do much damage in the chest cavity. Apparently the velocity was just too high at close ranges.
I gotta admit I have allowed bc to affect my selection and I don't know why. I have given myself a 300-400yard limit on my shooting of animals. I am under the belief system that if you can get closer, you should. Although, bullet construction and ability to expand reliably has been the most important in my bullet selection. The federal bullets based off the old trophy bonded bear claw are what I've gravitated to. Then again, I killed two Caribou this winter with my 270 win shooting 140 grain Hornady Interlock btsp. That old interlock did the trick hitting bone but still passing completely through at 30 yards. Thank you for this reminder of what my thought processes really are when it comes to hunting.
hornady interlock. the only bullet i've used for 40 years. 6mm remington to .338 win mag. shot placement with a GOOD bullet. i have never lost an animal to this date. 200 yard to 300 yard shots only, respect the game.
Long story short, I just "reverse engineer" my handloads for a bullet/cartridge to bullet manufacturers terminal velocity recommendations. Sometimes slower is better depending on bullet construction. In the old days, I had to call or email them to get that information, today it's usually on the box. -Tutt
Outstanding sir. My family, friends and I combined have brought home so many game animals over just my 50 years that i don't dare try to count. With a few exceptions, most of us use standard calibers .243, .30-30, .35 remington, .300 savage, .308, .30-06. With a couple old .303 british, 30-40 krag 8mm mauser everyday average kinda stuff. Though we have tried different ammo, it is the majority's opinion out of all the the people i have ever hunted with that you just can't beat a good old inexpensive core lokt or power point or similar type average ammo. In my circle i have never heard of one failing to do its job. From ground hogs to moose. If your spending $50 for 20 rounds of hunting ammo..... You have been had my friends.
I agree with you DD… and here is a slightly different angle on the topic of BC’s for ethical range hunting bullets - to shine a bit of a positive light on the merit of BC’s: Yes, pursuit of the high-est BC’s in selecting a hunting bullet is folly… this leads hunters into the more fragile cup and core style bullets like the ELDX and bergers where normal range terminal performance is traded for long range velocity retention, yielding a net performance disadvantage to the ethical range hunters. But, on the other hand I really appreciate what barnes is doing with their LRX bullets. They have taken the proven TTSX design and refined it in pursuit of high-er BC’s without giving up the advantageous terminal characteristics of the tipped copper monolithic design. It appears to me that this is a net advantage to the ethical range hunter at all ranges. For example: in a 270WIN the 130gr TTSX versus the 129gr LRX at 3053fps MV… the improved drag efficiency of the LRX yields 4/7/10% increases in retained energy at 200/300/400m ranges respectively. If we consider 2000fps to be the performance limit for these bullets, the TTSX and LRX reach this low velocity limit at 470m and 540m respectively… a 15% increase for the LRX. 🎉 And for large game like elk/moose the TTSX/LRX reach 1600ftlbs retained energy at 300m/345m respectively (again 15%). In summary, I just wanted to say something nice about higher BC’s and give props to Barnes for doing very fine work with their LRX product line… and honourable mention to the 270WIN… these numbers are pretty sick! Cheers!
Yes. Energy. I used a 300wsm on reindeer. But found that it did not kill quicker or deader than my 6,5x55, so now I am back to the old Classic using 120grs copper bullet. It is very efficient. Any combination of cartrigde and bullet that will expand, go through the animal while staying together and having more energy than is needed, thus exiting the animal. Is as good as it gets!
A few years back the marketing "rage" was weight retention. The intent was to convince hunters that they had to have 100% weight retention in order to be successful. Thus the guys who had successfully used their Nosler Partition bullets for years had somehow been wrong. My retort was that a military full jacket bullet has 100% weight retention, but you wouldn't want to hunt with it.
Thanks again for projecting the idea of truly ethical hunting practices and using your experience to teach. How we use our liberties have everything to do with their future existence. Preserving well thought out execution of a wonderful way of life is what will give the next generation values and experiences that will give them a rich life. It is so important to pursue the right things. And, this IS science with real world application, exactly the kind of intelligence we require.
Another great video, thanks. It can take a long time to get real world experience and so if you are jut stating out, or if you just really want to deep dive into an interest, you tend to turn towards metrics.
I am both grateful and embarrassed at how straight to the point and informative this has been. Embarrassed because why should it be this way in the first place. With all our smart people out there why would anyone want someone wounding or injuring an animal that goes off and dies and is never recovered just so they can get in our pocket book. I would much rather have the perfect blend between caliber and energy and speed and felt recoil and best performing projectile. So knowing this, we should be told straight without hype right from the start. If that means u need only a savage weather warrior 30.06 then so be it. Conversely if the 257 weatherby magnum in vanguard Weathergaurd is the ticket then that's what should be presented. Like my vehicle. I want it to start and operate fully as intended each time I turn the key.
I can remember a long time ago my uncle always used flat base bullets because the boat tail bullets of the time would not hold together it is important to pick the right bullet when it comes to hunting
Excellent video and after reading through all of the comments that you got Zero pushback from the marketing reps that perpetuate these myths and fallacies. For them its like going to Church and not wanting to hear the good word...Sorry to say though as it won't change because they have successfully learned that Hunters are prey as well and easy to trap.
I agree with your assessment on kinetic energy. For decades the conventional wisdom has been to make sure that your load can deliver minimum of 1500 lbs of energy on target for taking elk and 1000 lbs for deer. With the advent of these “new” copper solids, hunters seem to be having success taking these animals with less energy delivered on target than what this decades old convention suggests . Considering how these solids seem to perform on game animals, it makes sense that bullet construction matters more.
Yep; a 168gr TTSX will have 99% of its mass intact 10" into an elk, where a 190gr VLD might have 50% of mass intact. This makes the SD of the lighter bullet MUCH HIGHER after it makes impact with the animal, and the energy dump duration has a better rate as it passes through. Like I said in the video; those neat little SD numbers mean absolutely nothing after the bullet hits the target - unless you are comparing the exact same bullets of the exact same caliber. But if a 168gr TTSX is enough to go all the way through the animal (with a not-so-perfect shot) and deliver enough energy to kill it, SD's mean nothing anyway because more penetration isn't necessary.
From personal experience, my very first hunt at age 17, I dropped a 200 lb Ram from 150 yds. w/ a Savage bolt action shooting a 100g 243 Remington Core Lok. The Ram popped a wheelie ( didnt see it cuz of the recoil) then fell over dead. The bullet went thru the left shoulder, thru the lungs, and lodged in the right shoulder. Minimal meat loss.
You are 100% right and many hunters these days have very limited experience in shooting big game animals. Simple cup and core bullets are okay in very slow rounds like a 30-30 but they have no place for hunting especially not in fast magnum calibers. Nosler Partitions, Winchester Failsafe, Swift A-Frame, Barnes X, Hornady GMX, RWS TUG, are some of the better projectiles for hunting big game. Sure they are all a bit more expensive to purchase due to their construction costs but they will do the job if the hunter does his. All the better match bullets should only be used for fun and paper punching.
I agree with your assessment 100% The only new cartridge that got my attention was the 350 Legend. What's not to like about a low recoiling light weight short rifle? Especially when you're hunting in thick Pennsylvanian woods. Most of my shots are zero to 75 yards... I don't need a high performance cartridge to get that job done.
Good excellent content, I have rifles chambered from .22rf to .416 REM , the later definitely more than I need for the UK, just a fun gun. On of my favourite rifles is a Ruger No1 .45/70, I meet too many UK deer stalkers who think that bigger diameter means greater meat damage. Fortunately many of us know that is not necessarily so.
I see the ammunition manufacturers creating new rounds while meantime they can't keep up with the manufacture of existing rounds. How long will ammunition and components be available for most of these new firearms?
This is a great point that I should have included in the video. "Why are they making and marketing new whiz-bang cartridges when they can't even keep 30-06 on the shelf?"
After rewatching this video. I have to say wiser words couldnt be said desertdog. But I have one question if you dont mind. All the things I’ve learned from you I got one question that keeps popping back up in my head. From a 243 caliber on up to 458 caliber hunting cartridges. What is the real difference when talking about hunting deer elk caribou moose? Species in that range in size. What I’m basically asking is what does caliber/cartridge have in relation to those animals? I have watched your hunting cartridge video and I just don’t have much knowledge with the whole aspect in bullet diameter for medium to large game species. I’ve always thought in my mind that as long as a high quality bullet is used a good 25 caliber or bigger should be sufficient for that type of task. Not a fan of the smaller 24 and smaller calibers for medium to large game. But I’ve seen what a 25-06 would do to medium to small bull moose. I don’t think it’s wise to hunt the big bulls with it but for us average Alaska residents in the bush we don’t do much thinking into that. For most people they see a 30-06 size case with a decent caliber bullet and that’s good enough. But for what it’s worth. Why does it matter to have bigger calibers when the smaller one that is used for that task has already gotten the job done? I feel like the whole arguement of bullet diameter might be a bit over hyped as long as people are being smart. In my mind a good 25-06 or bigger should be enough gun for most hunters. For larger game a good 7mm or 30 caliber is sufficient enough. But that’s exactly what I’m saying. If a hunter is taking say deer. Had a 25-06. Why get a bigger caliber? If I’m going after elk and have a 7mm rem mag. Why should I need bigger? For bear the 30-06 has always gotten the job done . I’m just a novice with all this I don’t know much if you can do a video on that topic to educate younger guys like me that be great. Great videos great information thank you sir.
100 gr gmx or 110 gr ttsx for my 270 Win = whitetail tenderloins on my table. With the majority of my shots being inside 250 yds its a perfect combination. Thanks for the great video.
I have for decades always said the gun industry is like the auto industry. Every year there is a new and better vehicle out there. Same with firearms. They change the stock a little and is sold as new and better. As far as bullets go match your hunting bullet to your game and expected range. Leave the target type projectiles for range work. Some bullets have so much cooper in them to give a higher BC. They will not not stabilize in standard rifling twists.Everything you say is true in the video. B.C.means nothing in real hunt situations. Accuracy and penetration will get the job done. Well done.
I very much share your view on BC for hunting. It is completely irrelevant for etical distances. I agree with the rest as well, but the BC discussions have a tendency to become agressive arguments.
Writer Craig Boddington suggests when using Barnes, moving shot placement slightly forward, hitting the shoulder, instead of behind the shoulder placement like when using the typical lead core for lung shots.
Thank you. I recently subscribed, and have watched several of your videos. A couple of months ago I started a quest to buy a rifle that will satisfy both target shooting and hunting all North American game. You have taught me a great deal - so much so that I have changed most everything about my planned purchase. I almost got sucked into the high BC scam, and in a new cartridge (6.8 Western). I have landed on the 7mm Rem Mag. I know Winchester Model 70s are your favorite although I'm looking at an X-bolt because they now offer a faster twist (1:8), which gives me more flexibility in bullet selection and weight. If you haven't already done a video on the 7mm Rem Mag specifically, as it relates to hunting (Elk, as I plan a Western hunt), I would be grateful. From what I've learned, the Nosler Partition or perhaps a Barnes LRX (TSX, TTSX) would be a good choice for hunting. Any thoughts are appreciated.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 OMG. I have traveled far since my post last month. Sorry. I ordered a 300 Win Mag from a custom rifle builder. Another belted cartridge but in 30 caliber, so more energy down range. BUT my plan is to get into reloading to circumvent much of the supposed shortages. Also, thinking more in terms of Bergers, but from what I've learned from you these are fragmentation bullets? I suspect long range is acceptable (not short range). Perhaps Elite Hunter, or ?? Suggestions? I would still use Partitions for shorter range hunts.
As a hunter I don't concern myself with the bc of a bullet. I consider a 400 yard shot a long one and within that range any rifle I hunt with will have a good enough bc to do the job. Consider a 35 caliber 225 grain bullet. It has a pretty low bc but has the energy needed and a flat point blank range if fired at a reasonable velocity.
yep, the 25 and 35 caliber cartridges are the real victims of the BC hype; absolutely fantastic killing and flat shooting rounds that get ignored due to BC brainwashing.
As long as your particular cartridge and bullet combination is enough to reliably get complete pass-throughs on not-so-perfect shots, SD can be ignored and you can enjoy a flatter-shooting, lower-recoil load. Almost any bonded or mono 160-180gr bullet in a high-power rifle cartridge will easily do this to an elk from ethical distances.
@@clapton924 The Great Jack O'Conner said that 1300 Ft/Lbs of energy is the ethical limit for deer; that would make a 25-06 a 400-yard deer rifle. That 1300ft/lb number has been the gospel ever since; even though O'Conner based that number on the old Bronze-point and Speer bullets he was using at the time. O'Conner later realized that energy doesn't kill animals; tissue damage and blood loss do - and he shot the Nosler Partition after that. Deer are not tough animals, and almost any 85gr+ bullet will reach vitals and deliver good energy on your typical broadside heart/lung shot. But what if the deer is quartering? What if you prefer the shoulder shot? Well, more penetration is needed for that, and you need additional mass to get the job done. I have found that a tough 115-120gr Partition or bonded bullet, or a 100gr monolithic bullet are capable of reliably doing the job at ethical rifle velocities.
Great video, I will only add, to match the rifle/ caliber/ cartridge/ bullet construction to the animal and terrain. Still own and prefer my "Bean field" rifles/calibers and will take having a DRT on a accidental marginal shot then a wounded/ no blood trail, lost animal. Again great explanation of bullet construction over math calculations. The long range shooters will now add their arguments. LOL.
You are a 100 percent right game bullets not match bullets I shoot deer with a 44 mag revolver barnes 225 grain and nosler 240 grain my longest shot where I hunt is 98 yards
I have harvested elk with many different calibers and the only one that didn't pass completely through the animal was a .357 mag. but it did kill the elk.
The philosophical hunter.
I like it.
Old school, Geezer here.
I have watched all of the hype and fads over the last 60 years.
Long shooting Game, a reliance on technology rather than hunting skills has its expected results.
Desert Dog , you speak older than you are. That is a good thing.
This Geezer ,an old time Bull Elk Guide and hunter.
Easily one of the best hunting/gun channels on RUclips. You have more practical based knowledge and experience that the real boots on the ground hunter can relate to. All of this being in your own opinion is also the opinion of a majority of us sportsmen afield. Great content! Cheers from Canada eh 🍻🇨🇦👍🏻
Thank you for the compliment Mike! Glad to have another subscriber form the Great White North.
It's like walking into the fishing takle store and realizing that most of the gear in there is to catch fisherman... not fish. With a .270 I use ELD-X for target shooting and Nosler Partition for hunting. I hunt where 400 yards is not even a posible shot. Long range is for fun not hunting.
For bass fishing, I can never catch anything outside of plastic worms, spinners and top water when the conditions are right. Everything else is to catch $$$. For deer in western Oklahoma, we have had extremely good success with a simple .243 Win out to 400 yards for the whole family. We either use ballistic tips or Federal fusion and never lost one. Plenty of energy at 400 yards, but also does great at 25 yards. The low recoils means no flinch. I also occasionally use a 270, and lost or nearly lost deer in the 80’s or 90’s on close shots with the bullets blowing up even though placement was good, but at 350 yards, the same bullet would blow a hole the size of a soccer ball. Good bullet construction is a must.
I think with the .243, the jackets are proportionately thicker than in larger calibers giving great performance when the same bullet in a bigger caliber would blow up., plus I believe there has been improvements on some such as the ballistic tip. My deer this year was at 100! Yards frontal with a 270 ballistic tip that entered to the left of the left shoulder and exited just in front of the right hip with no meat damage and instant kill. My young son took a large trophy at 296 yards with his 243 95 grain ballistic tip.
Yet, I have coworkers that say you can’t kill deer without a 300 win mag, and they hunt thick timber in western Oklahoma where a 30-30 would suit them better.
@@terrybritton1355 precisely.
You want your terminal velocity to match your expected target distance.
I see a lot of people with .300 win mags under 100 yards - when that cartridge is well within its fragmentation velocities.
A .30-30 will deliver an ideal projectile at ideal velocities at that distance.
I get the sense that a lot of bullet construction design is simply to cater to ignorant people.
- People will choose the biggest fastest highest KE cartridge they can buy - and all of that is imparted onto the bullet
You end up trying to design a bullet that won’t self destruct on impact, rather than the bullet performing optimally at its ideal velocity.
The ol Partition is still doing it's job. That's what, 70 years old? Thanks for the vid, I needed that.
[Edit]
I decided to put your concept to the test and crunched the numbers from a hunting perspective, using two bullets out of my 308. Both 165 gr, one a flatbase, the other a slick boat tail. Point blank range set at 3 inches. The flatbase went 270 yards. But that slick and sexy boat tail went a whopping 270 yards. 🤪 Those BCs don't kick in soon enough for us hunters to bother with, unless BC in this case stands for Bullet Construction.
I’m so glad your making hunters understand it’s about the ethical kills first.
I absolutely love your opinion of the ELD-X. I used it to hunt with for awhile and have taken 5 muleys and a bull elk with it. I’ve hunted with a lot of different bullets over the years and I deemed the ELD-X the worst bullet I’ve ever hunted with. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to South Africa in March and I took my .280AI loaded with 160gr partitions and was able to take 8 animals shots ranged from 120-310 yards the partitions performed flawlessly. I really like all your videos but this one has been my favorite. I’ve been arguing these points for quite a while now.
The best caliber is a good bullet and the best bullet is a well placed one.
No mather what Cal ( My min is 7 mm ) Some times the best bullet isn't the most acurate. I still hunt with a 1917 Enfield in 30-06 and it gave me a hard time to get it to 1 moa. Factory first and handloads later. The sweet spot was 165 Speer Grand Slams. To tough to expand properly on deer. Went to backbone, neck and head shots, Problem solved because it is so accurate that confidence in hiting exactly the aming spot got my game. Will have to start over soon as they dont make them anymore. Mind bogling choice of new bullets, Whish me luck
The best bullet is a well placed one and it’s only through lots of practice that this can happen and not through the latest and greatest new guns, calibers!
@@edwardabrams4972 absolutely
DD, you make these videos so interesting and informative this is one of my favorites because you were spot on with what ammunition manufacturers have been doing for so many years. I can say I have learned a great deal on just about every level concerning hunting and hunting gear from your videos. I am also very happy I applied your suggestions to my gear and cartridge selections, when you explain it it all makes damn good sense. Thank you.
you and Randy Newburg make more sense than all the rest out there. Everything you talk about I have been talking about for decades.
Desert Dog, Thank you so much for all your videos, they have helped me a great deal to cut through the ammo marketing crap, and not be dragged through a long path of figuring things out through my own mistakes, I prefer to learn from others.
Inside 100 I go 30-30
Inside 250 I go 308
Inside 300 I go 270
That’s as far as I go.
Paper targets I go 6.5.
Very sensible cartridge selection.
I push the 30-30 to 150 yds, Old eyes not helping much, 30-06 a bit farther. Where I hunt 150 yds way out yonder, on the market fo a fine 1x8 scope, one for each. When you spook game at 30-40 yds open sights or a 1X scope will get you on target. 8X ? If I go wisit my daughter in WY might come in handy
Absolutely spot on! This is for ethical hunters who hunt at fair chase distances. Very accurate info and helpful for newer hunters like me
So well said! It really is refreshing to hear someone come out and publicly speak the truth. In every single instance my top priority when reloading cartridges is: do I have a good quality bullet? Sometimes my go to bullet doesn’t workout for whatever the reason might be, so if I have to choose an alternate bullet my criteria for a well constructed “hunting” bullet remains constant. I just will not back off this very basic principle.
Great video!! I'm basically a whitetail hunter and for the last 40 years have taken most of my deer at less than 200 yards with the Remington core lokt mostly in 270, 308 and 30:06 calibers. Never saw a reason to change to a more expensive ammo. It has always done the job for me even at longer distances on my 3 trips to New Mexico mule deer hunting.
Rem core lokt 150 gr 30-06 50.00 for 20 rounds.
@@johnhoffman8203 bought at a local store for less than $30 two weeks ago. Unfortunately all prices are high now.
The LGS is $30 Dunhams is $50. Being on the shelf is the first step towards stabilizing prices.
When a new potential hunter asks me what rifle caliber and ammo they should get I reply with my usual answer. Choose a good quality bolt action in a standard caliber and use soft point bullets (for deer). That advice has never disappointed. You are spot on when you said shot placement and bullet construction are the top two factors for ethical hunting. Great video.
Thank you for decluttering these concepts. I hope your viewers appreciate that.
Just found your videos yesterday while off work with Covid, have been binge watching and subscribed today. I like your practical and simple approach for what is necessary for ethical hunting. Thanks for the great videos!
One of your best!!! Extremely enjoy soaking up this lifetime of information you share!! Good hunting, and cheers from Texas!
Great video. Back to the basics!
Remington core lokt with flat base bullets have probably killed more big game at practical ranges than any other ammo. Most hunters had no clue what the BC and SD even was. They just put it in the vitals and retrieved their animal.
DD, I'm a hunter/shooter from New Zealand and I really enjoy your videos. In my opinion you're one of the most sensible firearms professionals on RUclips. I especially like your attitude towards ethical hunting distances. Unfortunately, there are alot of guys down here who would much rather take a deer at 800 yards, than stalk within MPBR of their particular cartridge.
Wisdom is not always possible to pass without personal experience, so there will be a ton of people who will try to find reasons why to dissagree. To me, big thumbs up!
Real advice from a real Hunter I for one highly appreciate it. Thank you once again!
Man i really hate your conclusions... because it means another great video is coming to an end. Keep up the good work Desert Dog.
Many many thanks for your informative and completely competence. I'm a German hunter, a blue collor lumberjack and I'm hunting since 1976. In this decades I used a lot of rifles, bullets in different calibers. To be honest, - in my first times I often failed or missed ! If the shot is pointed in the deadly target-area, the animal drops down and die fast and painless. This area is different in every species, and so you have to aim.
Very good books about wrote by Kevin Robertson "The perfect shot".
First! Thanks for making the best rifle hunting channel on RUclips!!
Fantastic breakdown and explanations. Thank you sir, firm handshakes.
Hey D.D. great video. Judging by the amount of grey on our chins we're probably about the same age. I agree with everything you said in relation to B.C, Energy, and Velocity. However I never gave much thought about S.D. in it's relation to the bonded core or Partition style bullets; I think you have a valid point there as well. I admit that having grown up with cup and core bullets I always reverted back to bullets with higher S.D. numbers. I recon that I'll have to think about your theory a little bit. I know you've heard this before but you have one of the best hunting channels out there and I appreciate the work that you put into it. Take care and be safe!
Just now seeing this, and your work, and stellar, boiled-down delivery, are both unique and captivating.
This, is probably the most important tutorial on not just the hype of hunting, but the fundamentals of what's really going (and important) during the exercise of hunting.
For some reason, young hunters (the ones seemingly driving and parroting the new, techie cartridges) don't want hunting to be to much effort, or too messy.
Understanding a quarry's behavior, defense, and the best tactics for stalking and successfully defeating them--in THEIR element--is just more than they want to deal with.
Added to this, is the "sexiness" of futuristic rifle builds designed to snipe, rather than hunt, and the glorification of combat sniping in recent wars with young solders returning home...and it seems to add up to a foundation for the current environment.
300-400 yards and less.
The same old cartridges.
Mebbe that's become too boring...
Fast becoming my favourite channel. Very well explained 👍🏼
Great video, loved the topic. I agree with you and I have really turned away from the new high speed cartridges, I was looking at buying the 28 nosler when I realized I don't need anything like that for 300 yds and in.
I've gone back to traditional blued and walnut. From what I've seen down here in NZ, stainless steel rifles these days tend to show signs of rust more readily than blued. I have a Ruger Compact .308 and a Steyr Mannlicher 7x64 and both of those rifles stand up to moisture better than a stainless kimber hunter .280 AI I used to own.
I have owned a .338 win mag and a 7mm remington mag and a 300 win mag. I no longer own any of them because living in Colorado I didn't need them. I gave my .300 to my son and got rid of the other two. If I need magnum power I use my .35 Whelen but otherwise I just use my 30-06 or a .275 Rigby (7x57). Nothing I'll ever hunt in the lower 48 will require more than these rifles have to offer.
Great vid sir. As being an older hunter, I totally agree with many of your thoughts many cartriges and rifles have killed meat for me for 40+ years. But always use simple ammo at inside 300 yrds. Thank you sir
I love your videos. Very informative. I've been shooting Nosler partitions out of my Winchester model 70 Super Grade 30-06 for years. If it's not broke don't fix it. Greetings from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
I know this is an old video. Just saw it. You bring up a lot great points and I am seeing a lot archery and firearm overlapping. After practically bouncing an arrow off a deer I knew I had to go a different route. I’m had found a RUclips channel called the Ranch Fairy a long with the Dr. Ashby foundation. They talk about heavy arrows. One of the biggest points they make is arrow and broadhead integrity just like what you said about bullet integrity. Dr. Ashby was the one that helped legalize archery hunting in Africa.
Thank you for all of your knowledge that you are sharing.
I always knew that firearms manufacturers were hyping everyone. Your concise and clear enunciation of the facts put truth to power. I have sub'd to your site. BTW: I have made it a point to leave remarks for all the "hunters" who brag about 500+ yard shots. Unethical and 1 in 50 success stories that don't get said. Thanks again!
10 inch pie plate for target has been a long time hunting standard for ethical wild game hunting. Terminal ballistics is the deciding factor on bullet types that create ethical game hunting. I’ve always believed in the right bullet, for the right purpose, in the right cartridge, at the correct velocity with appropriate terminal impact, all along with shot placement. I’ve never been sold on marketing and the trigger word like high BC. Hunters should know their terminal impact distances on targets for delivered energy as well as what their bullet is made of, not necessarily what the bullet is marketed for. Great video! 👍🏻😃
You nailed the issue in the first two minutes. Well said. Proper shot placement at ethical distances is still the best way to ensure success.
Just as a sidenote I like the old "pound feet" calculation to determine relative power of various cartridges. I think it was first promoted in Field and Stream magazine back in the 30's. Pound Feet is determined by multiplying the bullet weight (in grains) and velocity (in feet per second) and then divide the result by 7000. Of course this number is relative, meaning that similar bullet construction and shot placement is implied.
@@hillbillyscholar8126 Even at that, Bullet construction is much more important. Like stated in the video; total energy doesn't matter, it's the RATE that the energy is delivered. You can shoot 2 bullets that hit with 2500ft/lbs on an elk - but one might blow up on the shoulder and one might pencil right though with no energy dump. The problem with all of these theoretical metrics, is that none of them account for bullet construction.
Excllent points...in 28 years of hunting up here in Alaska most of my shots have been less than 200 yards. This past fall I shot my caribou at 120 yards and my bull moose at 160 yards.
Yet most people online will tell you that it’s impossible to get within 1,000 yards of these animals.
Reliable Terminal Performance. Good choice of words and ideas.
DD, another great video. As you said numerous times, "ethical hunters"! My practice distances at the range go out to 300yds. I limit myself to 300yds because I'm hunting, not targeting deer at ridiculous distances. My 7x57 is scoped with a 1.25-4x24, a perfect rig out to 300yds. This was a great explanation for ethical hunters. Take care!
Great show, and your right, back in the day, S.D. helped you choose a deer, elk, ...etc.., With the advent of the Fed. TLR Edge, (an old Ackley designed bullet.) May very well be the best designed hunting bullet out there... What is so funny is the Nosler Partition has always been under B.C., its actual bc is way higher than what they advertise, a great bullet.
Thank you for ironing out all this and yes hunting is at an all time ethical low point.ive been all over the place with what I use growing up in Tx hunting I started out on the 22-250 moved on into magnum mania now I'm 45 killed lots of game and I now use and stand firmly behind a wonderfully accurate rem 700 titanium 24" 3006 it flat out dead bang flop right there works out to 400 yards which I think is my Max limit 99% of the game I've shot were between 150-200 yards I use a 150 hr accubonds at an honest 3000 fps ( why I use a 24" 3006) that shoot 5 shots in one 1/2"hole at 100 yds. can take the same gun with a few clicks on my Zeiss 4.5-14x44 scope and I'm on point with 180 gr accubonds for the real big stuff.
Love your channel and how you stand by the basics and traditions. If someone can't get within 200 yards of any game animals they should not be hunting. A slight gust of wind and miscalculation at even 500 yards could cause a wounded game animal. To me 200 yards is the max ethical distance for most hunting scenarios. Punching paper at 500 yards or 800 yards at a range off a bench on a warm sunny day is different then shooting across canyons with varying gusts and thermal drafts. Not worth the risk of wounded the animal in my opinion. What happened to the art of stalking and stealth. It's called hunting not shooting.
Amen!! it's hard to beat a Nosler partition or a Barnes Tsx for larger game, or a simple cup and core bullet for deer and medium game. Most deer are killed inside 200 yards. With these re brand match bullets all you are doing is wasting money. Where the BC's matter and these match rebrands become useful is in competition or tactical or law enforcement situations. Which has absolutely nothing to do with hunting to begin with. I don't understand why companies like Hornady push bullets like the ELDx towards hunters. In my opinion these companies set uninformed and young hunters up for failure. They are also encouraging unethical behavior! It's about using the right tool for the job and being ethical. The whole point of hunting is ethics.
Great video DD. You have a great way of separating the pepper from the fly poop.
You truly hit the nail on the head with this video!!!! You need to redo this video so hopefully common sense may sway marketing. As always great video.
I have been expanded through the information conveyed in this video. WOW! awesome video.
100% agree with the ELD-X. I stopped using it for hunting. Never seen as much meat damage ever as I seen with the ELD-X bullet. Went back to partitions.
Smart move! Barnes LRX are great too.
My buddy just went to Texas for a whitetail hunt with his 25-06. His dumb ass forgot to pack ammo and was forced to buy some at a local gun shop. All they had was ELD-X. After re-zeroing his scope, he shot a deer on the first day right in the point of the shoulder and the deer ran 200 yards before he could put another shot into the lungs. That first shot blew-up on the shoulder and only penetrated a few inches, allowing the deer the run on 3 legs for some distance before it stopped. Stay away from the ELD!
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 Thats exactly my experience with ELD-X, along with massive meat damage. Great bullet for punching paper if your rifle likes it. But terrible on game no matter the caliber.
Great content as usual. On a side note, I am SUPER jealous of your model 70 super grade maple. keep em comin
Agree sir. I will take my 270, 308 and 30-06 over all the new laboratory cartridges and all of there high BCs. Great video
I love your no nonsense approach.
My favorite eastern Whitetail rifle is a 7mm 08 loaded with 175 grain accubond bullets. I only get 2300 fps but I get very consistent expansion and penetration. This works better than most anything on quartering shots.
Someone once called 7-08 as 308 Lite. And that stuck with me. Great for deer hunting with low recoil.
DD, you remain the no-nonsense, common sense voice in the wilderness. Always enjoy your experience-backed presentations.
Interesting you started your video comparing Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets to Barns TSX, because that's how I started my hunting. I loaded 140gr Ballistic Tips for my 7x57 and immediately had failures with shoulder shots on deer and hogs. Fortunately I didn't loose any game but I did move up to 150gr Ballistic Tips. Soon I heard about Barnes bullets and switched to a 140gr solid copper projectile. After that I had a run of 7 one shot kills on Black Tail deer. These slugs go through both shoulders of a deer and they drop right in their tracks when hit like that. I've also dropped a couple of black bears in the same manner with this load.
A lot of people I used to hunt with used 7mm Rem Magnums and I saw several failures on close range shoulder shots on deer, even with Nosler Partition bullets. The slug blew up on the animals shoulder and didn't do much damage in the chest cavity. Apparently the velocity was just too high at close ranges.
I gotta admit I have allowed bc to affect my selection and I don't know why. I have given myself a 300-400yard limit on my shooting of animals. I am under the belief system that if you can get closer, you should. Although, bullet construction and ability to expand reliably has been the most important in my bullet selection. The federal bullets based off the old trophy bonded bear claw are what I've gravitated to. Then again, I killed two Caribou this winter with my 270 win shooting 140 grain Hornady Interlock btsp. That old interlock did the trick hitting bone but still passing completely through at 30 yards. Thank you for this reminder of what my thought processes really are when it comes to hunting.
hornady interlock. the only bullet i've used for 40 years. 6mm remington to .338 win mag. shot placement with a GOOD bullet. i have never lost an animal to this date. 200 yard to 300 yard shots only, respect the game.
Exactly. Always respect the game more than our own egos.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 well said
Excellent video. Cuts through the hype.
Long story short, I just "reverse engineer" my handloads for a bullet/cartridge to bullet manufacturers terminal velocity recommendations. Sometimes slower is better depending on bullet construction. In the old days, I had to call or email them to get that information, today it's usually on the box. -Tutt
Absolutely. Sometimes slower is better
Accubond and TSX/TTSX are the best in my opinion for expanding bullets
Outstanding sir. My family, friends and I combined have brought home so many game animals over just my 50 years that i don't dare try to count. With a few exceptions, most of us use standard calibers .243, .30-30, .35 remington, .300 savage, .308, .30-06. With a couple old .303 british, 30-40 krag 8mm mauser everyday average kinda stuff. Though we have tried different ammo, it is the majority's opinion out of all the the people i have ever hunted with that you just can't beat a good old inexpensive core lokt or power point or similar type average ammo. In my circle i have never heard of one failing to do its job. From ground hogs to moose. If your spending $50 for 20 rounds of hunting ammo..... You have been had my friends.
Rem 150 gr core lokt 30-06 50.00 if you can find them.
I agree with you DD… and here is a slightly different angle on the topic of BC’s for ethical range hunting bullets - to shine a bit of a positive light on the merit of BC’s:
Yes, pursuit of the high-est BC’s in selecting a hunting bullet is folly… this leads hunters into the more fragile cup and core style bullets like the ELDX and bergers where normal range terminal performance is traded for long range velocity retention, yielding a net performance disadvantage to the ethical range hunters.
But, on the other hand I really appreciate what barnes is doing with their LRX bullets. They have taken the proven TTSX design and refined it in pursuit of high-er BC’s without giving up the advantageous terminal characteristics of the tipped copper monolithic design. It appears to me that this is a net advantage to the ethical range hunter at all ranges.
For example: in a 270WIN the 130gr TTSX versus the 129gr LRX at 3053fps MV… the improved drag efficiency of the LRX yields 4/7/10% increases in retained energy at 200/300/400m ranges respectively. If we consider 2000fps to be the performance limit for these bullets, the TTSX and LRX reach this low velocity limit at 470m and 540m respectively… a 15% increase for the LRX. 🎉
And for large game like elk/moose the TTSX/LRX reach 1600ftlbs retained energy at 300m/345m respectively (again 15%).
In summary, I just wanted to say something nice about higher BC’s and give props to Barnes for doing very fine work with their LRX product line… and honourable mention to the 270WIN… these numbers are pretty sick!
Cheers!
Your best video on an important topic. The bullet hype is like the covid.
Yes. Energy. I used a 300wsm on reindeer. But found that it did not kill quicker or deader than my 6,5x55, so now I am back to the old Classic using 120grs copper bullet. It is very efficient.
Any combination of cartrigde and bullet that will expand, go through the animal while staying together and having more energy than is needed, thus exiting the animal. Is as good as it gets!
A few years back the marketing "rage" was weight retention. The intent was to convince hunters that they had to have 100% weight retention in order to be successful. Thus the guys who had successfully used their Nosler Partition bullets for years had somehow been wrong. My retort was that a military full jacket bullet has 100% weight retention, but you wouldn't want to hunt with it.
Your presentation and the messages are very nice and educative thanks keep it up thanks again
Thanks again for projecting the idea of truly ethical hunting practices and using your experience to teach. How we use our liberties have everything to do with their future existence. Preserving well thought out execution of a wonderful way of life is what will give the next generation values and experiences that will give them a rich life. It is so important to pursue the right things. And, this IS science with real world application, exactly the kind of intelligence we require.
Another great video, thanks. It can take a long time to get real world experience and so if you are jut stating out, or if you just really want to deep dive into an interest, you tend to turn towards metrics.
I am both grateful and embarrassed at how straight to the point and informative this has been. Embarrassed because why should it be this way in the first place. With all our smart people out there why would anyone want someone wounding or injuring an animal that goes off and dies and is never recovered just so they can get in our pocket book. I would much rather have the perfect blend between caliber and energy and speed and felt recoil and best performing projectile. So knowing this, we should be told straight without hype right from the start. If that means u need only a savage weather warrior 30.06 then so be it. Conversely if the 257 weatherby magnum in vanguard Weathergaurd is the ticket then that's what should be presented. Like my vehicle. I want it to start and operate fully as intended each time I turn the key.
Knowledge is power listen and learn excellent 👍 video
I can remember a long time ago my uncle always used flat base bullets because the boat tail bullets of the time would not hold together it is important to pick the right bullet when it comes to hunting
Excellent video and after reading through all of the comments that you got Zero pushback from the marketing reps that perpetuate these myths and fallacies. For them its like going to Church and not wanting to hear the good word...Sorry to say though as it won't change because they have successfully learned that Hunters are prey as well and easy to trap.
I agree with your assessment on kinetic energy. For decades the conventional wisdom has been to make sure that your load can deliver minimum of 1500 lbs of energy on target for taking elk and 1000 lbs for deer. With the advent of these “new” copper solids, hunters seem to be having success taking these animals with less energy delivered on target than what this decades old convention suggests . Considering how these solids seem to perform on game animals, it makes sense that bullet construction matters more.
Yep; a 168gr TTSX will have 99% of its mass intact 10" into an elk, where a 190gr VLD might have 50% of mass intact. This makes the SD of the lighter bullet MUCH HIGHER after it makes impact with the animal, and the energy dump duration has a better rate as it passes through. Like I said in the video; those neat little SD numbers mean absolutely nothing after the bullet hits the target - unless you are comparing the exact same bullets of the exact same caliber. But if a 168gr TTSX is enough to go all the way through the animal (with a not-so-perfect shot) and deliver enough energy to kill it, SD's mean nothing anyway because more penetration isn't necessary.
DD, Spot on! You have great informative videos!
From personal experience, my very first hunt at age 17, I dropped a 200 lb Ram from 150 yds. w/ a Savage bolt action shooting a 100g 243 Remington Core Lok. The Ram popped a wheelie ( didnt see it cuz of the recoil) then fell over dead. The bullet went thru the left shoulder, thru the lungs, and lodged in the right shoulder. Minimal meat loss.
You are 100% right and many hunters these days have very limited experience in shooting big game animals. Simple cup and core bullets are okay in very slow rounds like a 30-30 but they have no place for hunting especially not in fast magnum calibers. Nosler Partitions, Winchester Failsafe, Swift A-Frame, Barnes X, Hornady GMX, RWS TUG, are some of the better projectiles for hunting big game. Sure they are all a bit more expensive to purchase due to their construction costs but they will do the job if the hunter does his. All the better match bullets should only be used for fun and paper punching.
Excellent practical explanation. 🙏🤟🏽🙏🤟🏽
I agree with your assessment 100%
The only new cartridge that got my attention was the 350 Legend. What's not to like about a low recoiling light weight short rifle?
Especially when you're hunting in thick Pennsylvanian woods.
Most of my shots are zero to 75 yards... I don't need a high performance cartridge to get that job done.
Awesome video great information
After this video, I released that I’m Hunter. Thank you Sir you opened my eyes.
Good excellent content, I have rifles chambered from .22rf to .416 REM , the later definitely more than I need for the UK, just a fun gun. On of my favourite rifles is a Ruger No1 .45/70, I meet too many UK deer stalkers who think that bigger diameter means greater meat damage. Fortunately many of us know that is not necessarily so.
Yep. Meat damage is a result of HOW a bullet delivers its energy; NOT the energy delivered. I have killed many small animals with 375H&H and solids.
Great content, thank you.
I see the ammunition manufacturers creating new rounds while meantime they can't keep up with the manufacture of existing rounds. How long will ammunition and components be available for most of these new firearms?
This is a great point that I should have included in the video. "Why are they making and marketing new whiz-bang cartridges when they can't even keep 30-06 on the shelf?"
After rewatching this video. I have to say wiser words couldnt be said desertdog. But I have one question if you dont mind. All the things I’ve learned from you I got one question that keeps popping back up in my head. From a 243 caliber on up to 458 caliber hunting cartridges. What is the real difference when talking about hunting deer elk caribou moose? Species in that range in size. What I’m basically asking is what does caliber/cartridge have in relation to those animals? I have watched your hunting cartridge video and I just don’t have much knowledge with the whole aspect in bullet diameter for medium to large game species. I’ve always thought in my mind that as long as a high quality bullet is used a good 25 caliber or bigger should be sufficient for that type of task. Not a fan of the smaller 24 and smaller calibers for medium to large game. But I’ve seen what a 25-06 would do to medium to small bull moose. I don’t think it’s wise to hunt the big bulls with it but for us average Alaska residents in the bush we don’t do much thinking into that. For most people they see a 30-06 size case with a decent caliber bullet and that’s good enough. But for what it’s worth. Why does it matter to have bigger calibers when the smaller one that is used for that task has already gotten the job done? I feel like the whole arguement of bullet diameter might be a bit over hyped as long as people are being smart. In my mind a good 25-06 or bigger should be enough gun for most hunters. For larger game a good 7mm or 30 caliber is sufficient enough. But that’s exactly what I’m saying. If a hunter is taking say deer. Had a 25-06. Why get a bigger caliber? If I’m going after elk and have a 7mm rem mag. Why should I need bigger? For bear the 30-06 has always gotten the job done . I’m just a novice with all this I don’t know much if you can do a video on that topic to educate younger guys like me that be great. Great videos great information thank you sir.
Yeah, this is why I so appreciate Hornady putting boat tails on their 30/30 bullets 😊
100 gr gmx or 110 gr ttsx for my 270 Win = whitetail tenderloins on my table. With the majority of my shots being inside 250 yds its a perfect combination. Thanks for the great video.
I have for decades always said the gun industry is like the auto industry. Every year there is a new and better vehicle out there. Same with firearms. They change the stock a little and is sold as new and better. As far as bullets go match your hunting bullet to your game and expected range. Leave the target type projectiles for range work. Some bullets have so much cooper in them to give a higher BC. They will not not stabilize in standard rifling twists.Everything you say is true in the video. B.C.means nothing in real hunt situations. Accuracy and penetration will get the job done. Well done.
I very much share your view on BC for hunting. It is completely irrelevant for etical distances. I agree with the rest as well, but the BC discussions have a tendency to become agressive arguments.
Desert Dog u never let me down great video.
I'd still use Barnes even if California didn't require it. Great hunting bullet
Writer Craig Boddington suggests when using Barnes, moving shot placement slightly forward, hitting the shoulder, instead of behind the shoulder placement like when using the typical lead core for lung shots.
Thank you. I recently subscribed, and have watched several of your videos. A couple of months ago I started a quest to buy a rifle that will satisfy both target shooting and hunting all North American game. You have taught me a great deal - so much so that I have changed most everything about my planned purchase. I almost got sucked into the high BC scam, and in a new cartridge (6.8 Western). I have landed on the 7mm Rem Mag. I know Winchester Model 70s are your favorite although I'm looking at an X-bolt because they now offer a faster twist (1:8), which gives me more flexibility in bullet selection and weight. If you haven't already done a video on the 7mm Rem Mag specifically, as it relates to hunting (Elk, as I plan a Western hunt), I would be grateful. From what I've learned, the Nosler Partition or perhaps a Barnes LRX (TSX, TTSX) would be a good choice for hunting. Any thoughts are appreciated.
The 7mag with the old Partition is a proven elk killer. You will not be left wanting more with that combo.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 OMG. I have traveled far since my post last month. Sorry. I ordered a 300 Win Mag from a custom rifle builder. Another belted cartridge but in 30 caliber, so more energy down range. BUT my plan is to get into reloading to circumvent much of the supposed shortages. Also, thinking more in terms of Bergers, but from what I've learned from you these are fragmentation bullets? I suspect long range is acceptable (not short range). Perhaps Elite Hunter, or ?? Suggestions? I would still use Partitions for shorter range hunts.
@@cacinaz8802 Allen, you're tripping hard.
@@mackellyman5642 Yup. And I'm enjoying the trip in my yellow submarine. Just ignoring the Blue Meanies.
@@cacinaz8802 love the 300 WM
There are so many great videos of yours that I happen upon..lol
Thank you for watching! go to my channel and scroll through them all. www.youtube.com/@desertdogoutdoors1113/videos
As a hunter I don't concern myself with the bc of a bullet. I consider a 400 yard shot a long one and within that range any rifle I hunt with will have a good enough bc to do the job. Consider a 35 caliber 225 grain bullet. It has a pretty low bc but has the energy needed and a flat point blank range if fired at a reasonable velocity.
yep, the 25 and 35 caliber cartridges are the real victims of the BC hype; absolutely fantastic killing and flat shooting rounds that get ignored due to BC brainwashing.
Very well explained. Thanks.
If bullet SD is antiquated, can you please make a video on selecting bullet weights for different calibers and game classes?
As long as your particular cartridge and bullet combination is enough to reliably get complete pass-throughs on not-so-perfect shots, SD can be ignored and you can enjoy a flatter-shooting, lower-recoil load. Almost any bonded or mono 160-180gr bullet in a high-power rifle cartridge will easily do this to an elk from ethical distances.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 how about deer sized game? Thanks
@@clapton924 The Great Jack O'Conner said that 1300 Ft/Lbs of energy is the ethical limit for deer; that would make a 25-06 a 400-yard deer rifle. That 1300ft/lb number has been the gospel ever since; even though O'Conner based that number on the old Bronze-point and Speer bullets he was using at the time. O'Conner later realized that energy doesn't kill animals; tissue damage and blood loss do - and he shot the Nosler Partition after that. Deer are not tough animals, and almost any 85gr+ bullet will reach vitals and deliver good energy on your typical broadside heart/lung shot. But what if the deer is quartering? What if you prefer the shoulder shot? Well, more penetration is needed for that, and you need additional mass to get the job done. I have found that a tough 115-120gr Partition or bonded bullet, or a 100gr monolithic bullet are capable of reliably doing the job at ethical rifle velocities.
@@desertdogoutdoors1113 thank you for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated!
Great video. I as well have seen eldx crap out on whitetail
Great video, I will only add, to match the rifle/ caliber/ cartridge/ bullet construction to the animal and terrain. Still own and prefer my "Bean field" rifles/calibers and will take having a DRT on a accidental marginal shot then a wounded/ no blood trail, lost animal. Again great explanation of bullet construction over math calculations. The long range shooters will now add their arguments. LOL.
You are a 100 percent right game bullets not match bullets I shoot deer with a 44 mag revolver barnes 225 grain and nosler 240 grain my longest shot where I hunt is 98 yards
I have harvested elk with many different calibers and the only one that didn't pass completely through the animal was a .357 mag. but it did kill the elk.
dude these videos are the best
Another great video. Thnaks again!
Really good video with lots of sense. Thank you :-)