How To Electroplate Silver Over Copper
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Paul demonstrates how he electroplated silver over copper tubes. Use distilled water, zero parts per million(0 ppm), then to add a very small amount of Silver Nitrate, keep agitating salt bath. I use 10 volts in the video, but i fine tuned it to 8 volts after the video was made. I am "not" a professional plater. These are starting parameters that i feel are best for this specific set-up that i use. Your required parameters may vary depending on size of copper piece, size of silver piece, size of salt bath, ect.. Hope this helps everyone with silver plating over copper,,,have fun! :-)
I just made a new video on this with great results, much better!!!!! :-)
Please watch.......
• How To Electroplate Si...
Much better results now!!! Check out this new video.........
How To Electroplate Silver Onto Copper Pt.1 (Great results)
Make sure you steel wool and detergent wash it first to remove grease and oxides until all non copper specks are removed You can then use a copper etching compound like Ferric chloride (sold in electronics stores for etching circuit boards) to "peel off" the old surface of copper by a few microns using a sponge. Leave on for 5 mins. (Use latex gloves as FeCl is also a poison.) Use the plating technique I mentioned above. No I dont use those eBay stuff.
After cleaning it, I just put the copper on + for a few minutes in a coppersulfate solution, so the top layer of atoms gets removed and then rinse with distilled water.
I used to run a electrical switchgear manufacturing company, This is how we silver plate our copper busbar contact points to NEMA, UL, IEC standards.
I am studying before I do this as I am just getting my studio set up.N-95 mask is what we wear in the hospital for tuberculous & other infectious patients, so they are the best to use & I wear them for everything.
Thank you,
Willow Moon
I understand completely. It was only "applied" current to the load(copper, silver & salt bath). So i am not sure of exact current through the whole circuit. You are correct.
Thank you.
Yes, i agree. Thats why i said "applied current", maybe not the best way i should of worded it. Current through the bath, or current drawn, depends on many factors.
Hi Paul, I use 3.0 volts when I am electrorefining silver. My mixture is also more concentrated than yours ( more Silver nitrate ). I get a bright silver coating straight up. I also don't allow the alligator clips in the solution for purity sake. I do like the clear dish you use and finally, what is the end purpose of the copper you are plating?
it is 3 Amps current applied by PSU, but when placed in salt bath & add resistance of silver and copper parts,,,then only .01 Amp through the whole circuit(bath with parts). Current will also increase through the circuit as more silver particals break off into the bath.
never done this but from what I have read. pre-sand and "pickle" your part. degreaser for oil, acid to remove oxide, distilled h2o for acid residue. silver nitrate works just fine. some where near 5V. but the amperage does the work, determines plating rate. also you don't want to have too large of a charge for your surface area. it can be tricky but doing fine. your part darkened slowly cause it looks like you ran 1ma. try a few amps.
thanks for the response... i was thinking it were easy because i see some david yurman and many others mix gold/silver and are able to plate them and make them look a shiny gold and a shiny silver... the reason i wanted to have it rhodium plated is because i don't like the oxidized look on the silver after a day since i'm acidic. the brushing of soap and baking powder makes it look shiny, but not new... i do understand some people like to keep the naturalold look to show it being an antique...
Fantastic speech and nice video.
Finally! I have a Dennis the Menace spoon I want to get replated for my oldest brother but I can't find a service to do it.
I think this will work very well for you. Please make sure to watch my videos of "how to electroplate silver over copper GREAT RESULTS". There is a link under the videos were you can buy the whole kit😎
I have used copper sulphate to pull the copper off a zinc penny and transfer it to another item. I was wondering if you could use plated silver as the silver supply and transfer the plated silver over to a silver item recovering the silver plate to the silver item.
I was making crystal power cells. im sure there must be other applications.
im still learning the best process for this plating.
Yes, because results are from after only 15 minutes,,for a good part this size it takes about a half an hour. When you say results are poor, are you talking about the piece i plated in the video or all the copper tube i show at the end? Hard to get perfectly even coat without having some sort a constant aggitator in there. At the end of the video the salt bath is darker, and this is when it starts to work the best. Did you mention to add oil to the copper piece first, before plating!?
It was cheap compared to most others, i think it was under $100, new from e-bay.
Yihua regulated dc power supply i think model number is 305D
It has 30V 5A, both variable, with DRO(digital read out)
Paul, I need to point out that current is not measured in parallel to a circuit in the same way voltage is measured. 1st you have to put a load on the circuit so that some current is actually drawn then you put the ammeter in series with your circuit and your load. Now be careful, most digital ammeters can only handle 10A. Ohms law says, A = V / R.
Hmmm, did not try pulsed,,but i first had it at 3V,,,and the water never seemed to start turning color. I also did the 3V set-up using 2 batteries in series,,,but batteries start getting weaker after a while. The solid silver did not seem to give up much molecules at this voltage setting,,but things still worked, but it would take 2 times longer to plate at 3V. Water/salt bath will stay clear for many hours at this voltage setting.
Thank you very much :-) Good to hear from you.
Hi chuffa mocco, i want to silver plate the inside of my copper cooking pots,the pots have no tin lining inside,what is the best way to silver plate them and get the thickest micron amount on them? Is brush plating with a silver solution sold on ebay good for this? Thanks
OK, thanks. Keep us informed on this process, It will be very useful for building transmitters.
This is why most digital ammeters can only measure up to 10Adc The 1ohm internal resistor can only handle 10A which is a pretty big (physically) resistor. Here comes the REAL TIP, if you don't want risk your digital ammeter. Put an extra 1ohm resistor in series with the load on your circuit and simply measure the voltage over that resistor (meter in parallel and on Vdc). This allows you to measure currents without the need to break the circuit every time you need to measure amps.
The problem with the gene pool is a lack of life guards. Ignore the criticisms from the "chemist" who said this is not electroplating. The fact that there is an electrochemical reaction does not take away from the fact that a positive sliver donor electrode with a negative plating electrode in a silver salt solution will electroplate.
Now, as others have said, the voltage you're using is way too high. 1 or 2 vdc is perfect. The current density, in amps per square cm or inch determines the rate of deposition.
For the "chemist", the term he is looking for is arginosus. Might be worth his while to look that term up. Silve ions are still used in various settings medically. The historic term for silver nitrate is lunar caustic. Silver tattooing is a common adverse effect of excessive silver exposure.
I'm a chemist and a medical doctor. You did a good job. Take the "expert" feed back you get on here with a couple grains of salt. Btw, a grain is a unit of measure! Silver nitrate is a silver salt. As the saying goes, bang the rocks together people! :)
Thank you very much :-)
I will be having another go at this soon & making a new video, hopefully with better results.
You are correct, my mistake. This is what happens when you are self taught :-) I set my PSU to 3A, So im guessing that would be with zero resistance, i understand that 3A is not what the current is through the bath.
Thanks for the correction
Yes, thank you. i saw many videos for copper & nickel plating, but nothing with silver plating,,,,so i made this video :-) Took me months of research and experiments to do this properly :-) Many profesional manufactures/platers also use cyanide of potasium, and i would rather not even mess with that stuff.
Hey,,thanks a lot. I will try all of this :-)
You've done a great job on the video and arranging things in the clear viewable angle. It makes this video more pleasant to watch.
Actually, I have watched it three times and tried to understand how to plate silver without using cyanide. I have to agree 100% with the comments from your chemist friend. The reaction in this video is a simple redox reaction that did not really require an electric current. The only amount silver (or silver oxide) plated on the copper tube was purely from the silver nitrate while the silver anode was not a part of the reaction. This explains why the copper tubes shown here are barely covered by an uneven layer of silver, even after some physical rubbing.
In order to place silver nicely with bright and even coverage, one must use a soluble silver complex solution that does not react with the base metal, such as copper, directly. Cyanide being the best choice is because the high stability of silver cyanide complex. There are many other compounds that forms stable silver complex although none of them come even close to cyanide. This will require a very accurate voltage control, additional of brighteners, and other wetting agencies to condition the plated surface. One thing works is to use (lots of) iodide salt to form a silver complex. The only problem is the cost of iodide salt.
One thing I like to mention about the voltage and current is to clarify some misconception in this area. In a simple plating application, the main control you have is the voltage. You can limit the current by using a good rectifier, however, you cannot simply "crank up" the amperage. To increase the current flow, you'll have to increase the voltage, conductivity of the solution, surface area of both electrodes, or shorten the distance between the electrodes. Most non-cyanide silver plating will be done under 2.0V. So your best bet is to add some salt (similar to the ions already in the solution) to increase the conductivity or use multiple cathodes to increase the current flow.
I'm looking forward to your next real silver plating video.
I found a few commercial silver electroplating solutions online. The good ones come with MSDS sheets. The contents give a good idea on what compound was used.
Thank you much for your very good information, it is much appreciated :-)
And thanks for wording kindly to me, many are very rude & cruel.
I give your comment thumbs up, thanks again, very informative & helpful for all :-)
I "applied" like 3A, with the PSU "set" at aprox 3A, but, yes, much less current actualy flowing through the salt bath & parts. Salt bath & parts acting as resistor/load, so yes only like 10mA actualy flowing through everything, but 3A is "applied" to the circuit. It is 3A "before" connecting anything to the PSU. Please let me know if you think im wording things incorrectly.
I work at a metal finishing shop and what I do is I plate electro less silver, Tin, and nickel. I don't know what all this talk about "oil the part before plating" is but don't do that. Keep Grease off the part or else when you there will be a layer of oil in between the copper and the silver. Which would ruin
Your part. Keep the part as clean as possible before you plate it. We run parts though sulfuric acid and cold water a couple times. Then plate it
Good to know , thanks.
I used the silver plated copper tubes to build crystal power cells :-)
+INVENTOR3 Another question: I noticed you like many others just use a silver dollar. Not an issue because I work with a ton of these making coin rings. What I did wonder is that I save all my silver shavings which are nearly like dust particles and after many many coin rings I typically gather enough to melt down to a small inget. I was curious though if I were to sprinkle the .9999 pure silver dust in the bath and keep it agitated with an airbubbler so they are moving around if it would be "beneficial or bad" in an attempt to improve a good silver electroplating????
Hmmm, interesting. Not sure if powder flakes in the bath would be as good. Hmmm, i think best to have the silver attached directly to the anode,,,,,hmmm, but now thinking more about this more, hmmmm, if attched to the anode, the particles that come off of the silver solid would be molecular in size,,,,and your talking about mixing in small dust particles that are much larger in size, but still the water itself gets charged so i would think that the powder you add would break down, but maybe not as fast,,,,,,i think what you mention would work, but to keep a small container like i use so that the anode and cathode are not separated by too much of s distance.
Wish i could hep more with this :-(
I do have an improved video you might want to watch, where i get a much better result,,,,search "how to electroplate silver onto copper improved" inventor3.
+INVENTOR3 I'm going to experiment with this today as well. What are your thoughts on agetating water when silver plating? Would an airstone in the bath during the process be helpful? and....one more rookie question, I have a similar power supply as yours. I noted you said you prefer 10 volts. What do you set the amps to initially?
Sorry, i missed this comment.
I Hope things worked out well for you?
You absolutely can push a current through a circuit, it is done all the time in radio transmitters, LED, laser drivers and many other types of circuits (I have designed these kinds of circuits for over 10 years and have a PhD in semiconductor circuit design though I don't have 40 years experience as I'm only 36). If you apply a 1uA current through a 1K resistor you get 1mV, in a circuit you can control any 2 out of the 3 variables in for formula V/I=R.This silver plating circuit is no different.
Thank you very much,,this i did not know,,but i always wondered how the meter did this measurment,,now i know,,,thanks again :-) good to know.
Thanks, im still learning :-)
Have you tried using pulsed currents or low voltages such as 5 V or less?
Thank you, the Nernst equations, looking it up now.
Thanks again, I learn something new every day :-)
thanks, i got PSU from e-bay, for like $75(new) great price. I believe this method would work with stainless steel, but im not positive.
Excellent, thanks INVENTOR3.
Ground workpiece and dip in solution, To finish this in seconds, attach a small silver anode to a metal handle (I prefer a stainless strip with a fiber/wooden handle) I usually tie the silver with cloth strip wrapping to the stainless strip so the solution can seep through and react with the silver faster. Make sure the the stainless steel is connected to your power supply positive. Then rub that portion into your workpiece in equal circular strokes to deposit silver evenly on the surface.
Hmm,, i did polish part before hand,,,but maybe to polish to a smother finish. I really think i need to subject it to an acid bath first
Dear Inventor3: Do you need to use Silver Nitrate? Can you use table salt (NaCl)?
Also, can you use a regular 12 volt car battery or battery charger?
(I want to silverplate some copper jewelry using silver spoons)
Thanks
Did you get an answer anywhere?
Yaaaay finally a vid on silver ty ty ty
Your welcome & no use of cyanide :-) Hope you saw the new improved video, link is pinned to top comment. There is also a link under video description there where you can buy the whole kit with instructions from ebay.
Interesting. I have not tried this. I would think you need to replace the silver nitrate with something else, but i do not know what to replace with.
Hi, Electron flow is from negative to positive (Google it) and Ion flow or Current flow is from positive to negative. Good vid showing a safer method of silver plating. Thumbs up.
The current flowing through a load does not depend on the voltage source but on the load. The high current rated for any voltage source only indicates the capacity of the source to feeding larger loads. If your sistem draws 10 mA as indicator shows, it will be the same whether you use a battey charger or a D size baterry. Cheers.
I understand. Sounds like this was a special process they did for these rings, and not easily replicated without the proper equipment & knowledge. I would not risk damaging the rings original look, but to maybe restore its look just to use jewelry cleaner or Tarn-X type of cleaner. You could try professional plating house, but maybe hard to replicate that exact compound/mixture,,,,,wish i could help you more.
Your power supply shows 10 Volts but 10mA to 20 mA. You are talking about 3A. How this happens? Varying the voltage or moving the anode to cathode closer raises the current.
Is your current meter (Ampere meter ) wrong or left in another scale?
Three AMPs !! If that were the case there would be 30W of heat which would make that water really hot. When you look on the current display it's only 0.01A (about 0.05A when you move the silver inside the tube).
I like the way you put the rubber glove on your left hand to protect your skin and then proceed to use your right hand for the demo...funny ha
Yes, i understand, thank you.
CS,,good stuff, i make also. I will keep everything not touching container next time,,,thanks.
I heard the man say that he apply 3 amps and I see 0.01 on the screen so !? which one is right is it 3 amps or 0.01 ? or what is the current density A/Dm2 if I plate something in different dimentions,... I hope you can help
Thank you, many times i still get confused between electron flow & conventional flow & i have to think about it for a second,,,geeeez, at one point we thought it was the protons that flowed !
You would still apply a voltage in those cases. The only difference is that the voltage applied is based off of resistance and other forward voltage drops to give a desired current. You can't simply push a current through something and have the voltage and/or resistance change to meet that current. You have to create a voltage difference which will then create a flow of current. His 40 years of experience has served him well.
If you are replying to my remark about using amps, them you missed the point. Of course they're will be voltage. The point is to set the current at a level so that it remains steady, while the voltage fluctuates, as opposed to setting the voltage and having that remain steady, while the amperage fluctuates. Of course one it the other will fluctuate based on the conductivity showing however many watts to be produced... And do in and so forth....
The point is, the current is what sets the standard. At least that is what I have been told. Who knows, maybe it is all just a glitch in the matrix, b and I am not even here
Trying to think how this might work better for you.
You already have an acid, silver nitrate, but electricity supercharges it too much.
To make it work better, I think the copper will need to touch silver. Maybe drop a silver bar in there and set the copper on it so it touches the silver. Shouldn't need electricity for it.
+INVENTOR3 I'm having a difficult time getting liver of sulfer patina to adhere nicely to a steel coin. No problem with copper, silver, nickle or other more conductive metals but this one has been a challenge. I'm just now experimenting with a conductive copper paint first brushed on and then oxidizing but that has a tenancy to be to thick and peals off easily. Okay so now I'm wondering if I can put steel in a electroplating bath and I actually have a very nice one where I can set the amperes and volts to any you think may be ideal but my goal would be to first electroplate as silver this way then it shouldn't be an issue to patina afterwards. My question to you is if you have any suggestions such as will electroplating be an issue on steel metal? Your help or any other here experienced with this is appreciated.
Sorry i cant be of much help here, my experience is limited in this area. I have not tried any other metal in this chemical composition except for copper. But i would think it would still work, hmmm, make sure your water is distilled/zero water & make sure metal, is cleaned very well, most people will use an acid bath. Im watching a video on the liver of sulfur patina now,,,, i dont think it would work on ferrous type of metals.
Patriot Coin Rings
Mine turned out white, don’t know if I should buff it or not?
I don't think you will get Liver to adhere to any metals
A tip, any digital ammeter reality only measure voltage. Sounds crazy? Read on... When putting the meter in series with the circuit and its load and switching to measure Amps, an internal circuit switches to measure the voltage over a 1ohm resistor and displays that as the amount of current. A = V/1 ohm. So if the potential over the whole circuit is 12V and the total resistance of the load is 100ohm then your meter will display close to 0.11mA. Remember the 1 ohm.
Your very welcome,,,good to hear from you. I hope this helps many people, not much out there on "silver" plating :-)
Yes, it is costly, but you would only need half of that to make many salt baths or applications.
Yes, thanks, this is what the professionals use, but i did not want to deal with the dangers of cyanide. They are very high in toxicity, much more dangerous than silver nitrate. I would have to study up on it a lot more first, may need full body coverage for protection.
Got any suggestions?? Less voltage and more nitrate???
k thanks that's a great deal !! and so very useful for alot of projects
Hmm, yes, wish i could help more, you probably need to replace the silver nitrate with something else, but not sure what. Salt of rhodium?
Oil in the water, REALLY!,,,hmmm, interesting,,,OK, i will try this! Thanks!!!
I just figured it was dark colored coating because it was not polished afterwards.
I've been an electrical engineer 40 years and have never heard the term 'applied current' . it has no meaning, you cannot apply a current, you can only apply a voltage , then the current follows, determined only by the resistance of the circuit (in dc circuits ) (as long as the current is within the limits of the power source, 3A in this case)
the power supply being used can deliver a maximum of 3A. but that is irrelevant, current used is 0.01 A
Thank you, no hard feelings :-)
I watched 5 minutes, all I want to know is which end (negative or positive?) you attached to the pieces. is the red the negative and the black the positive? or vice versa?
you are correct.
I worded incorrectly.
Thank you! :-)
Ya, N95 is the Niosh particulate filter certification. Although, N100, R100 or P100 would of course be better.
Something about this video... I came here trying to learn something and I leave feeling dumber than when I arrived
Check out the top comment that i have pinned. Please check out the description on new improved video.
You have just demonstrated why silver nitrate cannot be used for electroplating , it does deposit pure silver but in fine particles which don't adhere well and don't reflect light coherently, hence look black , a silver plated surface should look like a mirror, also not a good idea to have the crocodile clips in the solution , anyway well done for having a go .....
Most i see sold on ebay are good mainly for brass, but not for copper.
I am sorry mate, but this is no electroplating. There are no ions flowing from the medallion to the copper tube. The silver comes from the ionic exchange between the copper and the silver nitrate. The black oxides are silver oxides because the electric current oxidizes the silver.
Love your show can you put more entertainment for us as well,
yes, soon i hope. I am reorganizing my whole lab. Making it like new again :-)
Colloidal silver, good stuff :-)
Is it better if I keep it longer?? Does the coating last longer?
Yes, absolutely. The longer you keep it in the solution the thicker layer of plating there will be. 😎
6V,,,OK. Silver anode just dip a few times. & ground electrode, you mean, copper part to cathode, or copper to earth ground?
Watching paint dry comes to mind ...... Then sanding it all off.
Have a question for you have you plated steal with stainless steal be for ?? If so got any tips ? I can't manage to have a good pass rate items come out great and 10 minutes later turn black !!
i was wondering... i have this really old ring... it looks good but it's a silver and gold combo... the gold are the highlights withi this gem at the center... it has an etruscan look... i do want to keep its same color but have them electroplated with rhodium and the gold to like new.... how do you actually do that... i try to check out YT for the process but i don't seem to see any.. i wanted to get it electroplated here, but most i know locally just say gold or rhodium? so that's one color..
You should try an (aqueous) electrolyte made of (silver nitrate ,sodium cyanide and silver cyanide) to get a better electroplating
It seemed strange to me to add oil or greese. I need to get some sulfuric acid :-)
sooo many types of oil also,,,i dont feeel comfortable with oil and electricity together.
I forgot, set your voltmeter to 6 Volts and just dip the anode into the solution. Ground electrode to your part to be plated.
so the rate of water flow in river is determined by the rain fall in its catchment area and it entirely independent of the obstacles you put in it's way, the water will always get through one way or another. Stepper motors apply fixed speed and accelerations to what ever it is they are moving regardless of the object's mass (there are limits to the stepper motor maximum force), and you get constant current PSUs, for example battery chargers or led drivers for example ebay item # 231085962741
Confused why did you let the clips sit in the solution wouldn't that muddy up the solution with cu?
I think the clips are stainless steel, but still not good for me to let them hang in the solution. Why did I do this, because I did not know any better at that time, LOL. live and learn!
Colloidal Silver? You're going as Papa Smurf for halloween too? :D
Hmmm, interesting,,maybe. I can try this next time. dont hurt to try
Thanks,,this sounds like what i was reading for professional manufacture,,im guessing you work with plating company :-) Have to be very carefull working with cyanide!! What ratio of potassiium to cyanide in the bath? Maybe i should use about the same amount of cyanide as i did with the nitrate in the video,,,then to experiment with the amount of potassium for thickness of plating? Are you sure this process will be good for silver over copper?
Thanks much :-)
"red is pos & black is neg". Electrons flow from pos to neg. From anode to cathode.
You can absolutely apply a current. Creating a current driver (albeit simple) is the first thing they teach you in any transistor class. Look up "current source" in Wikipedia and take a look at the schematics. ...Or pick up any of your engineering textbooks from 40 years ago...
Lol you sound exactly like screetips 😂
hahaha, ... we do sound alike
I like your power supply!! is this the same method to electroplate silver onto stainless steel??
Thanks for confirmation of good mask, N-95 type :-)
Thanks for info.
Maybe i still used too much voltage,,,I think i need to do this process over more time.
The last thing I want to do is is make anyone look like an idiot, I have great respect for inventor3 and anyone else who is self taught . My goal is to increase understanding in the subject (including my own), if I try to correct errors this is not 'having a go' at anyone....
hmm. where did the reagent come from in the first place ?, and how did they get it out of there ? hmmm
Could a 12 v adapter work instead of variac? And does AC vs DC matter, if so which to use?
I am no expert, but i think, sure, i see no reason it would not work, they are low current. I think it is best to have even lower voltage over a longer period of time, but i think it will be okay. Keep a good distance between your anode and cathode to get less current. Dont try to use house wall outlet! You want to use only DC Pos(anode with silver) and Neg(cathode). You want low voltage and current. You could probably even use 1 or 2 batteries in series with each other and again keep the anode and cathode at most distance possible in your container and make sure batteries are not getting warm. Hope this helped some.