Experimenting with Silver Plating using FWG Universal Electroplating Solution - by VOGMAN
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- Silver plating... it should just be electroplating, right? But what about those nasty chemicals like Silver Cyanide? Well here's an electrolyte solution that claims to be universal. But can I get it to plate silver? I guess it's time for an experiment.
** ROBERT MURRAY-SMITH **
A great RUclips Channel worth looking at - / @thinkingandtinkering
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that voltage is way too high. you are probably getting mostly if not all oxides due to the electrolysis.
I was going to suggest the same thing. I've used a 5 volt power supply for zinc plating but when I do copper electroplating it's running at .6v and depending on the size of the piece, usually around 3-500 milliamps, or more current if I have larger things but rarely above .7 volts. Instead of a 9 volt he might have better luck with a D cell or a 6 volt lantern battery even. From my experience current carries the metal while voltage Burns It Off. So you want more current but not as much voltage usually.
From what I understand you are using too high a voltage. you want more 1.0 to 1.2 volts as higher voltages cause issues with the plating. might be worth trying again with a adjustable power supply.
Or at least a AA battery. 1.5 volts
52 seconds in n I already like how you're casting art is evolving, Geoff!
I can rember me asking you about you doing electroplating in the future (a long time ago). Finally it's here :D
Edit: Just saw 1:28 ... nonono that's not silver cyanide (AgCN). That's silver nitrate (AgNO3). And in common application it's also usually silver nitrate (especially for private uses). Silver cyanide has the upside of coming directly from the refining process of silver ores. (Chemist out :D )
Edit 2: Just a tip about electroplating. You don't really need 24 V for your plating bath. I don't remember the exact Voltage for plating out silver, but I remember it as being below 1 V. Higher voltage usually means that there are more side reactions beside the plating reaction, especially plain water electrolysis which releases a heap of gas messing with your plating process (this will eventually let your coating flake (a lot in this case) and your silver oxidizing. My advise here would be to reduce the voltage to a level to where no gas is being produced (since the potential for plating silver is way lower than the water electrolysis potential). (This time I'm done for sure with my scientific jibber jabber :D)
Greetings from Germany :)
Agree. You write silver cyanide and the formula is silver nitrate. IIRC, many years ago we used silver nitrate in my quantative analysis lab (college chemistry). Don't remember any lecture by the lab assistant about poisoning ourselves with Ag cyanide. But you guys call it aluminium, not aluminum,, so who knows? (Just could not ignore the chance for that dig :)
@@antifreeze7018 Exactly. We also used lots of silver nitrate solutions for titrations and only had some extra mini exams for masking copper ions with cyanides when we were testing for cadmium.
@@ninil.9287 Same here, we used AgNO3 in lab. I would not work with AgCN. Just add a little acid, and you got HCN...
Great video! I love that you show all your successes and failures!
Shame it didn't work out perfectly, but at least you've learnt something!
Good video Geoff. I really like watching your experiments, with your "warts and all" approach. Like most things in life, you learn as much or more from your 'mistakes' as you do successes.
Your videos are always fun to watch!
Now that was very interesting! Thanks for sharing!
I think the problem is that you need a bit of silver in suspension in the fluid before you start coating your piece. Try a bit of steel wool or copper wool as a receiving surface to get the silver into the liquid, first.
You might also try some plastic wrap along the surface to prevent oxygen from getting into the fluid, assuming it's not producing any by it's self during the plating.
Good experiment testing. Unfortunate results, but that's experience now.
I've enjoyed Robert's channel for a while now.
Awesome video!!
Rob is awesome🤗🙏🏻
Very interesting. I've looked into DIY plating options for decades, and have come to the conclusion that it's a dark, fickle combination or art/science. So, so many variables and ways for it to go wrong.
Very neat experiment. I am sure with all the suggestions in the comments you will sort it out!
Can I have a 1/4 of your patients .. I like how you showed all the different steps .. your still the man to me VOG .. much respect brother 👊🏻
Sorry it’s Seth Jensen I changed my name
Very nice. But your process is quite off if I may be so bold.
When plating/anodising it really pays off to accurately calculate the current density for a part and use a DC powersupply you can actually read off and control. The 9-18V is most likely way too much for immersion plating. I nickel plated cast coins and small parts with great succes at only 1.2V, for reference. Too much V’s will mostly result in thick oxidised patina’s that won’t adhere to the base metal.
The same will happen if you leave it in too long.
And if you mix up the anode and cathode.
Also, make sure the base metal is clinically clean. Otherwise the finish won’t turn out well.
The solution you used is quite alright and should work as silver nitrate is a commonly used salt for plating I believe, but do make sure you do not inhale the fumes and do not do this indoors or without ventilation. These fumes can contain nitric oxide fumes which I believe are toxic.
It is possible to create a solution of silver in hydrochloric acid, which theiretically is safer but I only heard of this and never worked with it myself. But it might be worth looking into.
I have no real experience with those silver buffs. But my gut feeling tells me they will either tarnish, be hard to apply or wear off quickly.
You got a good bit of success! I've only ever used the metal plating solutions. Silver and gold are particularly tricky with certain metals.. Gold solution plates really easy, but it needs a layer of copper underneath to stick properly to some metals. Sometimes it'll plate nice and flake off, or it won't plate at all. This doesn't seem like it should be giving you so many problems. It looks like you're getting too much oxidisation for some reason.
“If you can get someone else to do the rubbing it’s always more fun” 😂 😂 😂
😁
is it possible to use it on stain glass solder ; if you make a test you can add lot of costomer to your group ;please advise me if it work on stain glass or ordinary electronic solder
Great effort. I think you did everything you could. I'm sure your methods would have worked with different solution
I have the chemical compsition of the Universal Electroplating Solución, Mr. Robert Murray did a video on how it was done but later hide the video once he started selling it, You won't find it on his chanel
The solution usually varies to the surface your casting to right? I read somewhere that if you try to cast silver to copper, then the solution requires a different solution
Change anode to Stainless steel and lower voltage like 1.4
Some comments say that you need silver in the solution, I think that the product you are mentioning already has silver in it right?
I like it 😁 great video👍 I did play around with electroplating few times however never with silver, although I see similarity. First of all as Corbald mentioned you need some silver ions in the water. I made that by putting on both + and - the same material in your case silver, and let them work for some time. Second think is oxidation I get similar results when power is to high. You may try lowering it or what I found working too is quickly dipping the item in solution many times. ( be aware of splashing) good luck and hope you find your way to make it nice and easy 😃
Have you ever tried to do an electroplating of any kind, maybe nickel, directelly into the resins prints?
Think I seen someone use an old battery charger to try and electroplate some stuff. Cool video nonetheless. would making a solution of silver, like where you dissolve it in acid, sorta like how you would refine silver work better?
5:42 that was unexpected but my inner 12 year old applauds.
once again another fun video to watch. hush now i am watching :) hehe awash with puns again my man haha. will you be trying some of the rub on ones at some time. or will you just rub it off and go back to just casting the items in silver :)
Very interesting Geoff wondering if that was silicon bronze and needed an intermediate metal plating like copper or nickel. Always seen plating as 80% science and 20% magic.
Voltage is too high. Look for Sreetips’ silver refining videos. He uses no more than 3.5 volts
You should see if it can do brass. I don't think it can l, but I knew about this solution and was wondering.
It’s the tin foil. We used to put aluminum foil in the dishwasher to brighten the silver.
Hahahaha I laughed so hard after 30min you were bored out of your mind. I had the same experience trying to etch metal with a 9v
Pleased again! You definitely need more control over the Amperage and Voltage. Make your own lab bench power supply out of an old computer power supply =). There are some tutorials how to do this and I would like to see your take on this.
I often use an old toothbrush for rubbing in Iso Prop
VOG + FWG = popcorn.
part of your problem is a lack of silver ions in solution, this solution tends to need heat and takes hours to plate some thing as the silver ions have to go into the solution before transferring to the cathode target. You could degrease the target and electroclean it as well to increase success. Electroclean is sticking the positive to the target and a carbon ror or bit of stainless for the target for a few minutes. The reverse of what you would normally do. then try the bath plating with some heat. Its not a great solution for silver and straight out of bottle is near worthless as its lacking the metal ions you need to get it going in the first place.
I’ve started researching Tollens process for silvering my resin 3D prints, the idea is to make my prints reflective... directly on the resin prints
and how did that go ?
The current density is also probably too big (you need less than 500mA). High current causes too fast deposition on the cathode surface and therefore it does not get chance to stick because it has to get by all the bubbles as well. If your electrolyte is too high in dissolved salts, then the current will be too big. Silver may also be easier to plate in Nickel. So maybe do a base coat of Nickel plating first then try your silver again. You can try complexing some silver nitrate with ammonia and use that as an electrolyte?
Keep the current low for better adhesion and keep the alligator clips out of the solution. I've only plated nickel onto brass using a vinegar and salt solution I made using Odd Tinkerings method and it works pretty well. High current burns the plating as it deposits which is why it just rubs off. The clips are metal so that will react with the solution as well. At least I think, I am by no means an expert.
That was pretty fun. Water and electricity always add up to a good time. (Unless you’re rubbing a coin for 20 minutes and nothing happens...)
Cool
What kind of silver are you using? If you are using sterling silver (92.5%) the black deposition could be copper oxide rather than silver. You may find better results using pure/fine silver (99.99%).
I believe atomized silver is also black?
Please do electroplating chrome and nickel on plastic
You need the Nernst equation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nernst_equation and standard electrode potentials en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_electrode_potential_(data_page) if you want to figure out what will happen at certain settings. Otherwise it is pretty much trial and error and you need to know the right recipe. What I think that voltage matters, the concentration of the electrolite matters, the direction of the current matters a lot and I guess you don't necessarily need a silver electrode if you already have silver in your electrolite. As of the bubbles, they are the sign that you split water and make hydrogen and oxygen instead of what you planned (which can cause a tiny explosion with these voltages if it catches fire, probably nothing to worry about). The voltage might be too high as others wrote too. I am pretty sure you cannot get AgCN (or KAg(CN)2 which is used for coating), because it only requires a little acid to make HCN (hydrogen cyanide) gas, which would instantly kill you. I think you need a license for it in every single country. What you got is most probably AgNO3, which is a common more or less harmless chemical in laboratories. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_nitrate#Safety You should always know what you are working with to make the right precautions. You can google the R/S sentences en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_and_Safety_Statements of the chemicals you plan to use before doing any experiments with them.
the problem is you're using too much current and voltage. you'll need to use less than 500 milliamps if you're going to leave it alone for hours. i also suggest a small aquarium pump to displace the bubbles around the part you want to electroplate.
You mentioned longer battery life by using two batteries. Problem is that you connected them in parallel, and not series. Parallel adds the voltage, series adds the amps available. If you want a longer electrolysis, connect them in series.
You got that backwards. What he did was correct.
I did a bit of silver plating the other day, ... All I used was Silver Nitrate solution (17g per litre) and a silver coin (pre 1919) and a copper plated object, ... Voltage was around 3v and after around 1 minute my piece was plated silver and doesn't wash off ... Hope this helps, give it a try yourself ;-)
Thanks for the input Dave. My ignorance was my downfall here 😁
@@vogman Don't knock yourself mate, we all try and all fail until we get it right, .. Practice makes perfect ;-)
Last weekend I was anodizing titanium bottle cages for my friends bike and it was ALOT more trial and error than I ever thought it took about 8 hours to finally get it right but it was worth it results where awesome, turned out it needed to be wet sanded and polished to a mirror finish to get a nice vibrant color change on it.
I/S < 0,01 A/cm2
Voltage must be under 1 V. Use laboratory power supply
The current density is peaking lol need lower voltage or add some resistor
why didnt you tick that your issue was voltage you need to use about 3v-4.5 volts at max, do the exercise again and you will kick yourself.
why you didn't start to cast silver?
I have and do cast in silver : )
@@vogman Right now i find it.
Way too much current!
I think you made a huge mistake by immersing the alligator clips into the solution. Because its material is stronger than Silver then it might dissolve into solution and affect the results
Try using a 1,5v batteri and You should be golden...eh?
electrician go:Warning electrical,safety,fire hazard also 1st!!! you whatev its DC.
I and the entire outraged internet demand a retry with a D cell. D CELL.. D CELL .. D CELL...!!!!
You need to get some silver suspended in the solution first
Your voltage is waaaaaaaaay too high!!!! You shouldn't be using more than 1.5 volts. I'd go a little lower than that. Were there not instructions with the solution as to what voltage to use?
Please convince Robert to buy (or, preferentially, gift him, since you clearly know what you’re doing) a decent mic! His audio quality is the main reason I give most of his videos a skip.
(Speaking as a person who has been subscribed to his channel for many years)
Really I've never found it so bad that I can't watch it?
@Spardin 1982 It’s just unpleasant to listen to- sometimes so echoey and shrill that words get lost to the noise. I put up with it when the topic really interests me, but otherwise I don’t stick around.
@Charlie Vetsworth Get your ears checked, mate; audiophoolery can’t fix your hardware!
In conclusion, don't do plating. It's cheating.
That's stupid. I have a factory of manufacturing silver ring & pendants. All I can see is u have used useless chemical to plate. It should have been just simple cyanide in hot water. 250 gram per litre of water. Distilled water is important.
Experimentation is not stupid. Reporting your results, success or fail, is not stupid.
Try paying attention to the premise of the video: "No Cyanide" and "Does this alternative work?".