This is really cool! I want one now lol. As a side note, on a gasoline I4 engine, cylinders 1&4 and 2&3 are companion cylinders, meaning they move symmetrically if you mirrored the engine between the middle cylinders. This generally makes the engine more balanced from inertia, if anyone was curious. Also, you could get more torque by increasing the throw of the crankshaft (how far from the centerline of the crankshaft the rod journal is). Awesome video!
@J M i don't look at motorcycles much, i was just generally referring to the average I4 car engine lol. That's interesting tho. I like at least 6 cylinders personally 😂
Fun fact: there are basically 2 kinds of V8 engines, on has a cross plan crank, the other has a flat plan. Plan, as in the crank pins. Flat plan is 180° angle longitudinally from one pin to the next, and cross plan is is 90°.
The sparking breaks the contacts over time, so I'd recommend using a hall effect sensor and a nut inside the cam. This allows you to change the timing by adjusting the voltage threshold as well.
It's the flyback, when the magnetic field collapses it dumps voltage back down the line. Simple diodes across the contacts the right direction arrest this as a short
Follow those tips and you can drastically improve the performance of a solenoid engine: Change the rod of the solenoid for a magnet rod and you will be able make it push and pull depending on the polarity. This means if you configure your timing to reverse the polarity of your wires you can have power on both the down and up stroke. Due to how responsive the power of a solenoids are when compared with the combustion of a IC engine it will probably be better if you configure the trigger timing of the solenoids 1° to 5° degrees after TDC/BDC to prevent what would be considered "Pre-ignition" or "engine knocking" on a IC engine. "Pre-ignition" is when a engine start the power stroke before TDC causing it to send power to run the engine on reverse loosing a lot of power and risking damaging components. You may also want to add a flywheel so you can operate it at very low power/speed. The flywheel stored momentum will keep it from stalling when it reach TDC/BDC. Another option would be to use a crossplane crankshaft to smooth the power delivery.
@Professor Frog If you want efficiency get a engine from Tesla motor... This is a fun project and it would be cool to push it to its limits to see how far it can go.
@@Crlarl Ahhhh... What? Pls watch. ruclips.net/video/azWMckM4R-c/видео.html AC solenoids are designed differently from DC solenoids. In a AC solenoid a ring is installed in the coil to a store magnetic field energy and release it with a 90 degree phase difference. So yes reversing the polarity of a AC solenoid would not reverse its direction but that is not true for a DC solenoid.
The in-line four was basically two two cylinder engines connected together. The crankshaft was flat so didn’t take advantage of the four solenoids. Each solenoid should fire on each revolution. So 4 inputs of power at 90°.
I think this is a big part of the lack of power. If those two cylinders aren't firing at exactly the same point (ie if one crank throw isn't precisely aligned) the two cylinders that are firing are fighting a little so you've really got a 2 cyl engine dragging 2 more cyl. Might explain why it wouldn't self start well too.
@@MmMerrifield selenoids dont need any other stroke to function so if it was cross plane meaning there wouldnt be a dead point it would be self starting. a gas engine isnt self starting because it needs the intake and compression stroke to be able to give any power
Two things to help with the solenoids. First, you need to keep the shafts/cylinders lubricated to reduce friction. Second, you need to find a way to cool the solenoids. As the shafts heat up the metal expand and will cause additional friction and finally reach the point where it "seizes" up. A fan could be used for cooling
Unfortunately we don't have the intelligence nor the elements to create perpetual motion. Nevermind perpetual motion that has any real use. Like these solenoid "motors"...
I love all the engineering channels on RUclips, they're fun and actually teach you things most people probably wouldn't know otherwise. Like how inefficient this engine is.
Ideas: the crank arms need to be 90 degrees offset with each other instead of 180 like you have it. It will run much smoother, and you won't have to flick it to get it to start. Also, make the crank arms longer to yield more torque. As long as the solenoids have enough travel
Very cool design. Honestly, though, I think two areas can improve things greatly-- and optical or magnetic trigger and transistor switching (those reeds have got to be bouncing all over, fast action isn't their strong suit) and some center bearings. I think a lot of power is just going to warping that noodle of a crank back and forth. Hope you get it flying!
I can barely tie my own shoes when it comes to electrical circuit design - so I could be completely wrong. From watching South Main Auto and his explanations of tone ring for ABS, crank position sensor etc, I kept wondering if a Hall effect sensor in place of the microswitch would make sense. The microswitch spring can only return so fast, the arcing is probably introducing a significant amount of resistance in no small part because it’s in the direct drive path? The arcing will also pit and heat the metal contacts, depositing carbon (more resistance) until something wears out or the contacts simply fuse together. I remember as a kid trying to “drive” a relay at high speed - and while not fully understanding, ran into problems like these.
The inductance of the solenoids is probably making those high-voltage spikes in the switch each cycle. When you increase the load on the solenoids by moving the prop in water, it was probably increasing the current through the solenoids and exacerbating the effect. If you can, maybe look into putting some diodes across the solenoid terminals in the reverse direction of polarity, so the current has a path to dissipate. Additional zener diodes will increase the voltage drop and should dissipate the energy faster. Not an expert though, ask ElectroBOOM
And instead of using that mechanical switch to switch the solenoids, he could use that mechanical switch to switch on and off transistors, one for each solenoid, so all the high current from the solenoids are controlled by transistors instead of the switch, so no big sparks that can burn out the switch.
You can make a 'two-stroke' out of your electric engine by adding a second switch opposite the first (may also need a second cam); so you can push as well as pull the 'pistons' in the solenoids.
@@limpy4707 haha - yes, but you stil need 90 deg apart cylinders. Perhaps make it a 3 cylinder and 120° deg apart, then arrange the coils in delta, and use regular brushless controller. Jobs done 🤓😄💪
Its kind of a 2 stroke already, every cylinder fires on every down stroke. The idea of power on the upstroke comes from steam engines and I think is called a "double acting" arrangement, or something like that.
You remind me of myself when I was a youngster in the 80's. I had to use my imagination on a daily basis making things and breaking things apart to build something completely different to occupy our time with. It's nice to see people still using there imaginations to create.
Hey Peter, I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere already, but you can actually get 2x the power if you intentionally flip the polarity of the solenoids on their "return" stroke. The "dumbest" way to do this would be to have the switch control a DPDT (2 pole 2 throw) relay, where the relay is actually in charge of the power switching.
Not with regular solenoids, you can’t. The soft iron used for the plungers will pull in, regardless of polarity. You’d have to use permanent magnets as the plunger, to achieve the effect you describe. The trouble with that is, because of the repeated reversal of flux, the permanent magnets wouldn’t be all that permanent. The effect would be a crude AC degausser and would demagnetise them, quickly resulting in a stalled motor with the plunger permanently in the coil.
i'd honestly love to see a pt 2 to this using more powerful magnets and higher wrapped coils and more cylinders i think the major problems with your design is the size of the magnets and cooling and the firing order love to see a pt 2 of this
There is one way to make these engines strong. Each cylinder should have air intake and compression. Because at the time of compression, the piston would anyways be pushed downwards. But along with electric frequency.
I wonder if a larger flywheel would have helped, it'd also be cool to see if increasing complexity with more switches and more degrees on the axle would increase the power. Great vid, ive always wanted to see the application of solenoid engines
Imagine the challenge Model airplane builders faced in 1933, wanting to have an engine powered plane instead of rubber bands! Think of Bill Brown, Elmer Wall, Edgar T. Westbury, Mel Anderson, Louis Loutrel, Bill Atwood and Ira Hassad. All very early builders of model IC engines for their airplanes and boats. Bill Atwood ended up designing the famous Cox Tee Dee engines.
You could have another switch attatched to the cam 180 to the first switch which connects the coils to power in a reverse polarity and attach permanent magnets to the “piston” and get nearly a fully powered stroke
With simple solenoids, that is not possible. The polarity of the power does not change the direction. For that you would need push-pull solenoids which use a permanent magnet instead of steel rod.
Hey Peter, I'm a product of Youngstown, Ohio but now live in sunny Southern California. I understand the gripe on Ohio weather, but nowhere in California can you find a shed and land like the spread you and your friend have to play on. The 8 foot snow drifts are a bummer, but there are great things about the great state of Ohio. I miss it dearly and may make my way back to the more southern reaches like Cincinnati. Great video, once again. Cheers and Merry Christmas!
Something that may help you, solenoids tend to hang once you turn power off, which may be robbing some power from your motor. I would try to time it to swap solenoids a bit before top dead center and see if that helps. Also, possibly try something like an arduino to time all 4 solenoids separately so that each solenoid pulls roughly 90 degrees to get a full 360 degrees worth of “Power stroke”. Would love to see this actually work!
If you use more than two solenoids, you need to offset them on the crank by 45 degrees to get more work out of them! Also makes switching them slightly more complicated, but doable! So when one solenoid is halfway through the push, another fires.
Well, I'm just theorizing, but maybe someone will actually build both models and test them out. I still believe that the most efficient 4 strokes engine would be with 90 degrees offset between solenoids at the shaft. That would cover all 360 degrees of the shaft rotation with active pulling force, each solenoid will partly overlap with the next one (and previous one also).
Pretty cool! Here's a simple mod for your engine design: I bet you're having problems with the big arcs welding your little mechanical switch contacts together. The arcs are being generated by the back-EMF discharge induced by the solenoid coils when they're turned off. Simply connect a general-purpose 400v silicon diode in reverse across your mechanical switch and it'll get rid of the big arcs and save your microswitches. Those diodes cost about a dime brand-new, and can be scrapped out of old electronics for free, so it's definitely cheap insurance for your microswitches. If you want to continue optimizing your solenoid engine, here's a few ideas to try: Instead of switching all of that current through that little mechanical switch, use the mechanical switch to turn on and off MOSFETs or general-purpose BJT transistors, and let the silicon move the current through the solenoids. Be sure to use diodes to protect the transistors or MOSFETs from the back-EMF induced by the solenoid coils since that can Zap your silicon. Or, if you Really want to get fancy, build your own solenoids with permanent magnets as the plungers and use an H-bridge circuit to both 'push' and 'pull' the solenoid instead of only relying on the 'pull' stroke for power. Finally, you can use optical or Hall-effect sensors to replace the mechanical switch when you get the silicon circuits working. So Yeah, I absolutely Can see you making that little electric piston motor a Lot better if you wanted to continue to experiment with it. Maybe even making it fly? Fingers crossed!
On early 4 cylinder gasoline engines, they used heavy flywheels to increase torque and smooth out the output. Heavy flywheels help torque but not horsepower. The alternative soon used was to increase the number of cylinders and decrease the weight of the flywheel. Some cars got up to 16 cylinders in the early days. Bore and stroke also figure in. A larger bore and shorter stroke give faster acceleration, a smaller bore and longer stroke give better pulling power. More horsepower gives faster acceleration and higher sustained speed, more torque gives more pulling power. Which you use depends on what you are planning to do. Farm tractors and heavy equipment usually use long strokes and heavy flywheels, race cars use more short-stroke cylinders. I expect these things will also hold true for a solenoid engine. Anyway, a large diameter, fairly heavy flywheel will help keep your boat engine turning over.
I know I'm one of many, but I have some suggestions from gas engines: 1. Add an identical lobe on your camshaft 180 degrees from the other. This will make it a two stroke, with double the powerstrokes per rpm (unless you did that, can't really tell) 2. Increase your tolerances on everything that spins. There's a good chance that it didn't work in the cold because the tolerances were reduced, causing more friction. Also oil it with a thin lubricant like tool oil 3. Retarding the timing gives better low end power. For the low torque you're making, this may be necessary
Another interesting video I smiled the whole way through. You could hide a small motor in the mechanisim and fool your mates. Good stuff. I love your channel.
Love the felling when something you've built works first try. Seeing Peter shock himself getting it first try definitely made me smile from ear to ear 😁
I reckon if your gonna make a solenoid airplane then you should attempt multiple engine designs, including using a radial engine. I think that would be cool.
You made what's called a single-plane or flat-plane crank shaft configuration. A cross-plane crank would increase your perceived torque by spreading all 4 power strokes evenly over one revolution. Currently, that thing has two double power stokes at opposite sides of a single revolution, creating big dips ans spikes in torque/power. In general, I think solenoids like these are great analogs for playing with crank configurations. It will be interesting to see what configuration actually turns out to be the most efficient. :D Also, the cold is probably exacerbating a friction issue caused by your connecting rod configuration. The solenoid, uhh, pistons, I guess you'd call them appear to be experiencing excessive torsional loading with respect to the direction of the stroke which would make them want to jam during their return strokes. The crank configuration I already mentioned would remedy this somewhat as well. I'm an engineer by merit and trade. I love this stuff. :D Also, also, you gotta put those layers on and learn to love the dreary, frigid, gray, dead expanse of wasteland that is Ohio in the colder 2/3's of the year man! I live in NE Ohio, and it totally sucks until you learn to enjoy mother nature's surely side. Come on up when the "nice" winter weather gets rolling and I'll show you the most scenic snowshoeing locals the state has to offer.
This is reminding me of those small Sterling engines but less powerful. I'm sure if you stuck like 12 of them inside or build a gearbox to convert it to have a faster speed it would run more efficiently either way I love to see you try to make a plane out of this
there is a pretty small chance you'll actually see this, but if you do, maybe you could try putting a Ram Air Turbine on your fliers so that battery life will be less of a problem as they'll be constantly be getting power. it might not work on your RC planes but your ultralights and possibly your homemade paraglider could work with one.
Awesome video! I can't wait to see the improvements you'll make for the flight ready one - I wonder if rod bearings would add too much weight to be counter-productive
A summary of the material used, bed temp, nozzle temp and speeds would be cool for those of us EXTREMELY new to using 3D printers, you know, all the settings yall know by heart but us new folks don't have a clue with... Cool vid man.... very cool
I've been imagining a similar test for years. The major difference is that instead of rods going through the solenoids, you have combustion engine pistons. at the end of the cylinder (or around there) you have electromagnets. My question being, how little energy would the engine need to spin?
It'd be neat to substitute a balance shaft on an unbalanced ICE configuration for some kind of generator. Modulating feedback could allow for engine developers to actively control the damping characteristics of the conventional balance shaft while reaping back some of what otherwise is a small but necessary parasitic loss.
Good build. A couple of suggestions, you need to get away from the mechanical magnetic switch and the cam lobe in favor of a transistor NPN switch with optical timing. This will make energy transfer more efficient. Second you need to set up polarity reversal and solenoids capable of utilizing reverse polarity. This way every down and up stroke is a power stroke instead of just every other stroke being a power stroke. Last, you need a bigger propeller and rudder for your boat. Have fun! 😎👍
could you use a second solenoid below the existing one to pull back the "piston" giving it 2 pulls per piston per rotation? (sort of like cycling with clips so you can pull the pedal up as well as push it down) theres no doubt a lot of efficiency gains you can make by changing the rest of the engine since things like firing order make a huge impact to engines like this. iirc 6 and 12 cylinder engines are considered the "best" when it comes to overall engine balance, although im not sure how fast an engine has to run before that becomes an issue, but you might as well give it all the help it can get lmao
You need a 90 degree throw crankshaft. Your engine is basically a 2 stroke (fires every revolution not every other), and the 90 degree crank will give you 4 discreet firing pulses, a much smoother run, and not be "fighting itself" so much. If the solenoids get hot really fast, that's a good clue that your timing is way off. Add to that the fighting itself, and you'll have that result.
These engines honestly make me think of steam engines more than gas engines. Also Peter if you cover the engines and add a little bit of an opening for air flow, the heat generated from the engines could in theory keep them from getting cold! Also… you should totally use these to make a full scale titanic! The titanic had engines with those kinds of pistons that used steam. It would be a pretty cool model idea!
If you turn the solenoid on 90 to 100 degrees before top dead center (TDC) and off10 degrees before TDC it wont effect the output torque but it will more than half your watt usage and really lower the coil heat. Some of the comments had different switching suggestions which I agree , that type of switch gets less accurate as the RPM goes up. Even running that switch to trigger a transistor works better but a hall or optical works the best
My son and I built an air powered go cart about 13 years ago, you can see it on my channel. It used a pneumatic actuator to pedal bicycle cranks. We used a latching circuit with two magnetic switches on the cranks so we got push and pull as the cranks rotated. This provided power in both directions rather than just pulling in your single cylinder test, perhaps that would help? Not sure if your solenoids can push as well as pull.. Cool experiment, always enjoy your creations!
It looks like fun but some things to tweak? Use the flywheel bolt metal or cams for 4 x switches at 90 degree angle spacings to bridge circuits for each solenoid. Change from flat 4 cylinder to 90,180,270,360 degree crank big end angles to permit starting in any position. Lube the solenoids with silicone. Drop the center of gravity of the boat. Consider using a speaker coil arangement instead, to permit power on both strokes. Mount the solenoids in a V arangement or flat 4 to drop the center of gravity.
Well done, i have an improvement to offer : the switch can not hold all those sparks for long, you better use a FET transistor to run the solenoid's, no damage will cause to the switch. good luck.
the inline 4 idea is cool, add some deviding bearings inbetween the arms of the crankshaft and add a sort of watercooling around the solenoids powered by a bigger flywheel
You'll get much more torque by rotating the crank lobes of 2 of the cylinders, producing 1 power-stroke every 90 degrees instead of 2 every 180. it does mean running 2 sets of switches but it will make a noticeable difference. and it should self-start if your timing is right. you could run an independent switch and cam for each solenoid as that would allow for fine adjustment of the timing but that's only really useful when squeezing the last bit of power from the engine. probably the biggest factor effecting solenoid engines is the parasitic drag of the moving parts, you can reduce this by using teflon "piston rings" to support the solenoid slug in the tube, but they can be fiddly to get right, and require a pretty good cylinder surface. you're probably looking at custom solenoids at that point, but that's the only way you're going to get anything to fly anyway so you may wish to explore that option. I reckon a PTFE bobbin, with the right winding and a lightweight rod with a neodymium magnet core might work for flight. A radial might be a good option too!
Try using an optical switch to fire the solenoids and adjust the timing and you might get more torque out of it. In automotive terms this is known as a dwell tachometer. The electronic commutation of the motor should give you more efficiency.
Dc vs Ac. If can get your solenoid to work on Ac, keep your voltage low, amps high and use electrical frequency to control the speed. Good work I enjoyed your video. 😊
Make a flame thrower that goes up to 25 feet all you need is a fire extinguisher and a bike valve gas torch or metal bar or just watch videos. I would like if you could do this thank you
To extract the most power you will wanna balance all the rotating bits, and lube up any bits that are metal on metal/plastic on plastic. Should help with the vibration issues and for the torque issue just change the gear ratio from the motor to propeller. Ik this was just for the memes but hope to see more of things like this!!!
Peter, now make one with double acting solenoids, energized them on the upward and downward stroke by reversing their voltage polarity accordingly. You will double the strength, and the heat lol Also, make it three cylinders, spaced at 120 degree from each other axially. And control the three phases voltage waves with a microcontroller triggered by a crank sensor. It would run smooth and be powerful, don't forget to force liquid cooling thru you solenoids! See your video in a year.
In addition to the 90deg offset like everyone else is mentioning, I also think adding more mains would make a huge difference, u can see the crank bending hugely at the end with the prop on it... bending crank removes sooo much potential energy, if the crank had more mains and could focus on turning rather than bending would like double or triple your efficiency I'd say
You could make it more powerful by not only adding more "cylinders" but by using thinner wire to wrap more coils, this makes a stronger magnetic field, making the motor stronger
You can put a switch on the other side of the cam from existing switch and do something clever to reverse the solenoid current flow on the reverse stroke, so that the cylinder becomes dual acting. You can't get that from a gas-powered engine! If you wanted to get really fancy and improve the efficiency one could use hall-effect sensors and an electronic control module to run it all. If you can reduce the current flow it might become a bit more efficient. Very cool!
Cool concept as usual. Finally detailed craftsmanship. Of course you're taking all of the inefficiencies of an ice engine. Too many moving parts, power loss from friction and heat and building them into the electric motor which is the most efficient use of energy. There is at this point. But I have to admit it is very cool
I heard at the end of the video that the switch burned out due to the intense sparks due to the conmutation of high electric power. You could use transistors to switch the high power electricity from the solenoids, and only using the switch to conmutate a lower electric power that controlls the transistors and that does not burn the switch, it could improve the life expectancy and reliability of the mecanical switch you used for the solenoid engine.
Basically term, down stroke when the connecting rod(and piston) is moving away from the cylinder (making more space inside the cylinder) and the up stroke is when the connecting rod (and piston) is moving two-day the cylinder (making less space inside the cylinder)
solenoid motors had caught my attention over the past month actually.. guess i was not alone! started from looking more into coil driven linear stepper motors. looks like a railgun but for controlled positioning. Props... Thanks for sharing
There is an article from an old popular mechanics magazine that is called "the backyard and birdbath railroad". It uses solenoid piston motors to power a small child's ride on train
This is really cool! I want one now lol. As a side note, on a gasoline I4 engine, cylinders 1&4 and 2&3 are companion cylinders, meaning they move symmetrically if you mirrored the engine between the middle cylinders. This generally makes the engine more balanced from inertia, if anyone was curious. Also, you could get more torque by increasing the throw of the crankshaft (how far from the centerline of the crankshaft the rod journal is). Awesome video!
useless and inefficient and uninteresting motor
@@alexdelarge4938 what?
@J M i don't look at motorcycles much, i was just generally referring to the average I4 car engine lol. That's interesting tho.
I like at least 6 cylinders personally 😂
And that’s why Diesel engines rev so low too, they have a longer throw, so it has lots of torque but cant rev fast
Fun fact: there are basically 2 kinds of V8 engines, on has a cross plan crank, the other has a flat plan. Plan, as in the crank pins. Flat plan is 180° angle longitudinally from one pin to the next, and cross plan is is 90°.
The sparking breaks the contacts over time, so I'd recommend using a hall effect sensor and a nut inside the cam. This allows you to change the timing by adjusting the voltage threshold as well.
Do not nut on the cam
It's the flyback, when the magnetic field collapses it dumps voltage back down the line. Simple diodes across the contacts the right direction arrest this as a short
Follow those tips and you can drastically improve the performance of a solenoid engine:
Change the rod of the solenoid for a magnet rod and you will be able make it push and pull depending on the polarity.
This means if you configure your timing to reverse the polarity of your wires you can have power on both the down and up stroke.
Due to how responsive the power of a solenoids are when compared with the combustion of a IC engine it will probably be better if you configure the trigger timing of the solenoids 1° to 5° degrees after TDC/BDC to prevent what would be considered "Pre-ignition" or "engine knocking" on a IC engine.
"Pre-ignition" is when a engine start the power stroke before TDC causing it to send power to run the engine on reverse loosing a lot of power and risking damaging components.
You may also want to add a flywheel so you can operate it at very low power/speed. The flywheel stored momentum will keep it from stalling when it reach TDC/BDC. Another option would be to use a crossplane crankshaft to smooth the power delivery.
Reversing the polarity on a solenoid does not reverse the direction. This is why they can also work with AC.
@Professor Frog If you want efficiency get a engine from Tesla motor...
This is a fun project and it would be cool to push it to its limits to see how far it can go.
I believe these solenoids only have a pull. If there was a magnet on the cylinder then it could have a push and a pull.
@@Crlarl Ahhhh... What? Pls watch.
ruclips.net/video/azWMckM4R-c/видео.html
AC solenoids are designed differently from DC solenoids.
In a AC solenoid a ring is installed in the coil to a store magnetic field energy and release it with a 90 degree phase difference. So yes reversing the polarity of a AC solenoid would not reverse its direction but that is not true for a DC solenoid.
@@worthypook DC solenoids do push and pull depending on the polarity.
AC solenoids only push or pull.
The in-line four was basically two two cylinder engines connected together. The crankshaft was flat so didn’t take advantage of the four solenoids. Each solenoid should fire on each revolution. So 4 inputs of power at 90°.
I think this is a big part of the lack of power. If those two cylinders aren't firing at exactly the same point (ie if one crank throw isn't precisely aligned) the two cylinders that are firing are fighting a little so you've really got a 2 cyl engine dragging 2 more cyl. Might explain why it wouldn't self start well too.
@@LanternLabs totally. Needs to get the phasing right and fit a flywheel.
@@LanternLabs which engines are self starting?
@@MmMerrifield selenoids dont need any other stroke to function so if it was cross plane meaning there wouldnt be a dead point it would be self starting. a gas engine isnt self starting because it needs the intake and compression stroke to be able to give any power
it would be awesome if you put a v8 solenoid engine in an RC car
It would sound so awesome
Or he made 3 v8’s and put them inside of a titanic model
Search YT for: Tiny Ferrari
Did you mean like this mini boat as fast jetboat with v8
ruclips.net/video/XFGVxMc4v4U/видео.html
or aV16
Two things to help with the solenoids. First, you need to keep the shafts/cylinders lubricated to reduce friction. Second, you need to find a way to cool the solenoids. As the shafts heat up the metal expand and will cause additional friction and finally reach the point where it "seizes" up. A fan could be used for cooling
Now hook up the crankshaft to a regular DC motor, run the wires to the solenoids and boom, free electricity!
*elon musk would like to know your location
@@PeterSripol there's no such thing as free energy ask electro boom
@@darrenwilliams414 wooooooosh
Unfortunately we don't have the intelligence nor the elements to create perpetual motion.
Nevermind perpetual motion that has any real use. Like these solenoid "motors"...
Two words; diminishing returns.
Brilliant. It doesn't matter that it doesn't run as well as you would like so far. It matters that you built it and it did work.
I love all the engineering channels on RUclips, they're fun and actually teach you things most people probably wouldn't know otherwise.
Like how inefficient this engine is.
lol
Smarter everyday, backyard scientist, Peter, and others. Some of my favorite youtubers
The thot bots are out in force it seems 😂
@@krystal_vector5412 thot bots is how you know your comment was successful
@@cyber_nuggets8302 xd
Ideas: the crank arms need to be 90 degrees offset with each other instead of 180 like you have it. It will run much smoother, and you won't have to flick it to get it to start. Also, make the crank arms longer to yield more torque. As long as the solenoids have enough travel
I was thinking this as well. I also wondered if toroidal turbine 3D print would take advantage of that extra torque and help turn it into speed
A flywheel might help also...
Not to mention a Starter crank
You need separate timing switches and the solenoids phased 90* apart from eachother for smoothness. Also adjustable timing will be useful.
Yep. Four inputs of power per revolution.
I thought the same. You have to model it after a 4cyl 2stroke engine, not a 4cyl 4 stroke engine.
@@klugshicer yep. No need for the compression or exhaust stroke.
Vtec
I conquer
These experimentation videos are always my favourite. Found one again.
Very cool design. Honestly, though, I think two areas can improve things greatly-- and optical or magnetic trigger and transistor switching (those reeds have got to be bouncing all over, fast action isn't their strong suit) and some center bearings. I think a lot of power is just going to warping that noodle of a crank back and forth. Hope you get it flying!
By electronically commutating the solenoids, reversing direction would be easy.
World's First Praying Mantis taking a Flight on a Drone:
ruclips.net/video/kK4UcUjn430/видео.html
I can barely tie my own shoes when it comes to electrical circuit design - so I could be completely wrong. From watching South Main Auto and his explanations of tone ring for ABS, crank position sensor etc, I kept wondering if a Hall effect sensor in place of the microswitch would make sense. The microswitch spring can only return so fast, the arcing is probably introducing a significant amount of resistance in no small part because it’s in the direct drive path? The arcing will also pit and heat the metal contacts, depositing carbon (more resistance) until something wears out or the contacts simply fuse together. I remember as a kid trying to “drive” a relay at high speed - and while not fully understanding, ran into problems like these.
The inductance of the solenoids is probably making those high-voltage spikes in the switch each cycle. When you increase the load on the solenoids by moving the prop in water, it was probably increasing the current through the solenoids and exacerbating the effect. If you can, maybe look into putting some diodes across the solenoid terminals in the reverse direction of polarity, so the current has a path to dissipate. Additional zener diodes will increase the voltage drop and should dissipate the energy faster. Not an expert though, ask ElectroBOOM
And instead of using that mechanical switch to switch the solenoids, he could use that mechanical switch to switch on and off transistors, one for each solenoid, so all the high current from the solenoids are controlled by transistors instead of the switch, so no big sparks that can burn out the switch.
You can make a 'two-stroke' out of your electric engine by adding a second switch opposite the first (may also need a second cam); so you can push as well as pull the 'pistons' in the solenoids.
Nah, no need of a second cam. Clever placement of the switch is fine enough to activate the 'push' arrangement after the 'pull' about 180° after it.
Yes, but as the is a 2-stroke equivalent, you could have 90° deg offset on each cylinder and better low end torque delivery.
Could it be called a +1 stroke?? since you can rig it to push and pull every stroke..
@@limpy4707 haha - yes, but you stil need 90 deg apart cylinders. Perhaps make it a 3 cylinder and 120° deg apart, then arrange the coils in delta, and use regular brushless controller. Jobs done 🤓😄💪
Its kind of a 2 stroke already, every cylinder fires on every down stroke. The idea of power on the upstroke comes from steam engines and I think is called a "double acting" arrangement, or something like that.
You remind me of myself when I was a youngster in the 80's. I had to use my imagination on a daily basis making things and breaking things apart to build something completely different to occupy our time with. It's nice to see people still using there imaginations to create.
"Drunken Sailor", perfect choice of music 😊
how was this posted 5 hours ago
@@unironicaluser1867 released early for members probably
Patreon
@@unironicaluser1867 Yep, Peter's Patreon supporters get early access to his videos 😁
Hey Peter, I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere already, but you can actually get 2x the power if you intentionally flip the polarity of the solenoids on their "return" stroke.
The "dumbest" way to do this would be to have the switch control a DPDT (2 pole 2 throw) relay, where the relay is actually in charge of the power switching.
Not with regular solenoids, you can’t. The soft iron used for the plungers will pull in, regardless of polarity.
You’d have to use permanent magnets as the plunger, to achieve the effect you describe. The trouble with that is, because of the repeated reversal of flux, the permanent magnets wouldn’t be all that permanent. The effect would be a crude AC degausser and would demagnetise them, quickly resulting in a stalled motor with the plunger permanently in the coil.
i'd honestly love to see a pt 2 to this using more powerful magnets and higher wrapped coils and more cylinders i think the major problems with your design is the size of the magnets and cooling and the firing order love to see a pt 2 of this
There is one way to make these engines strong.
Each cylinder should have air intake and compression. Because at the time of compression, the piston would anyways be pushed downwards. But along with electric frequency.
I wonder if a larger flywheel would have helped, it'd also be cool to see if increasing complexity with more switches and more degrees on the axle would increase the power. Great vid, ive always wanted to see the application of solenoid engines
A larger flywheel and maybe a "chord ignition" (like a lawn mower) to set it going
and timing like 5deg ADC
Imagine the challenge Model airplane builders faced in 1933, wanting to have an engine powered plane instead of rubber bands! Think of Bill Brown, Elmer Wall, Edgar T. Westbury, Mel Anderson, Louis Loutrel, Bill Atwood and Ira Hassad. All very early builders of model IC engines for their airplanes and boats. Bill Atwood ended up designing the famous Cox Tee Dee engines.
You could have another switch attatched to the cam 180 to the first switch which connects the coils to power in a reverse polarity and attach permanent magnets to the “piston” and get nearly a fully powered stroke
With simple solenoids, that is not possible. The polarity of the power does not change the direction. For that you would need push-pull solenoids which use a permanent magnet instead of steel rod.
@@Crlarl i said you would need a permanent magnet instead of a steel rod
@@tabeebrahman4843
Yes you did. I misread your comment. Sorry.
@@Crlarl no worries
Hey Peter, I'm a product of Youngstown, Ohio but now live in sunny Southern California. I understand the gripe on Ohio weather, but nowhere in California can you find a shed and land like the spread you and your friend have to play on. The 8 foot snow drifts are a bummer, but there are great things about the great state of Ohio. I miss it dearly and may make my way back to the more southern reaches like Cincinnati. Great video, once again. Cheers and Merry Christmas!
Something that may help you, solenoids tend to hang once you turn power off, which may be robbing some power from your motor. I would try to time it to swap solenoids a bit before top dead center and see if that helps. Also, possibly try something like an arduino to time all 4 solenoids separately so that each solenoid pulls roughly 90 degrees to get a full 360 degrees worth of “Power stroke”. Would love to see this actually work!
This is a really nice way to practice and play with mechanic and motor with the advantage of not having to deal with fuel and combustion engine stuff
If you use more than two solenoids, you need to offset them on the crank by 45 degrees to get more work out of them! Also makes switching them slightly more complicated, but doable!
So when one solenoid is halfway through the push, another fires.
90 degrees would be best with 4 solenoids
I doubt it
Well, I'm just theorizing, but maybe someone will actually build both models and test them out.
I still believe that the most efficient 4 strokes engine would be with 90 degrees offset between solenoids at the shaft. That would cover all 360 degrees of the shaft rotation with active pulling force, each solenoid will partly overlap with the next one (and previous one also).
Im not going to lie you are by far the coolest RUclipsr.
Love the sound the motor makes. It's almost like clockwork!
Pretty cool!
Here's a simple mod for your engine design: I bet you're having problems with the big arcs welding your little mechanical switch contacts together. The arcs are being generated by the back-EMF discharge induced by the solenoid coils when they're turned off. Simply connect a general-purpose 400v silicon diode in reverse across your mechanical switch and it'll get rid of the big arcs and save your microswitches. Those diodes cost about a dime brand-new, and can be scrapped out of old electronics for free, so it's definitely cheap insurance for your microswitches.
If you want to continue optimizing your solenoid engine, here's a few ideas to try: Instead of switching all of that current through that little mechanical switch, use the mechanical switch to turn on and off MOSFETs or general-purpose BJT transistors, and let the silicon move the current through the solenoids. Be sure to use diodes to protect the transistors or MOSFETs from the back-EMF induced by the solenoid coils since that can Zap your silicon. Or, if you Really want to get fancy, build your own solenoids with permanent magnets as the plungers and use an H-bridge circuit to both 'push' and 'pull' the solenoid instead of only relying on the 'pull' stroke for power. Finally, you can use optical or Hall-effect sensors to replace the mechanical switch when you get the silicon circuits working.
So Yeah, I absolutely Can see you making that little electric piston motor a Lot better if you wanted to continue to experiment with it. Maybe even making it fly? Fingers crossed!
I have always wondered if this would work and how well and have never seen one of the videos mentioned. Awesome work as always.
how wa thi posted 22 hours ago
@@unironicaluser1867 prob posted to members early
@@unironicaluser1867 patreon
On early 4 cylinder gasoline engines, they used heavy flywheels to increase torque and smooth out the output. Heavy flywheels help torque but not horsepower. The alternative soon used was to increase the number of cylinders and decrease the weight of the flywheel. Some cars got up to 16 cylinders in the early days. Bore and stroke also figure in. A larger bore and shorter stroke give faster acceleration, a smaller bore and longer stroke give better pulling power. More horsepower gives faster acceleration and higher sustained speed, more torque gives more pulling power. Which you use depends on what you are planning to do. Farm tractors and heavy equipment usually use long strokes and heavy flywheels, race cars use more short-stroke cylinders. I expect these things will also hold true for a solenoid engine. Anyway, a large diameter, fairly heavy flywheel will help keep your boat engine turning over.
I know I'm one of many, but I have some suggestions from gas engines:
1. Add an identical lobe on your camshaft 180 degrees from the other. This will make it a two stroke, with double the powerstrokes per rpm (unless you did that, can't really tell)
2. Increase your tolerances on everything that spins. There's a good chance that it didn't work in the cold because the tolerances were reduced, causing more friction. Also oil it with a thin lubricant like tool oil
3. Retarding the timing gives better low end power. For the low torque you're making, this may be necessary
It's already 2-stroke though.
you should put each piston end at a 90 degree starting point from eachother, that way you can have a constant output force
Another interesting video I smiled the whole way through. You could hide a small motor in the mechanisim and fool your mates. Good stuff. I love your channel.
Love the felling when something you've built works first try. Seeing Peter shock himself getting it first try definitely made me smile from ear to ear 😁
I reckon if your gonna make a solenoid airplane then you should attempt multiple engine designs, including using a radial engine. I think that would be cool.
Came here to suggest a radial engine for the plane 👍
@@Cyan2002 great minds think alike
You made what's called a single-plane or flat-plane crank shaft configuration. A cross-plane crank would increase your perceived torque by spreading all 4 power strokes evenly over one revolution. Currently, that thing has two double power stokes at opposite sides of a single revolution, creating big dips ans spikes in torque/power. In general, I think solenoids like these are great analogs for playing with crank configurations. It will be interesting to see what configuration actually turns out to be the most efficient. :D
Also, the cold is probably exacerbating a friction issue caused by your connecting rod configuration. The solenoid, uhh, pistons, I guess you'd call them appear to be experiencing excessive torsional loading with respect to the direction of the stroke which would make them want to jam during their return strokes. The crank configuration I already mentioned would remedy this somewhat as well.
I'm an engineer by merit and trade. I love this stuff. :D
Also, also, you gotta put those layers on and learn to love the dreary, frigid, gray, dead expanse of wasteland that is Ohio in the colder 2/3's of the year man! I live in NE Ohio, and it totally sucks until you learn to enjoy mother nature's surely side. Come on up when the "nice" winter weather gets rolling and I'll show you the most scenic snowshoeing locals the state has to offer.
This is reminding me of those small Sterling engines but less powerful. I'm sure if you stuck like 12 of them inside or build a gearbox to convert it to have a faster speed it would run more efficiently either way I love to see you try to make a plane out of this
there is a pretty small chance you'll actually see this, but if you do, maybe you could try putting a Ram Air Turbine on your fliers so that battery life will be less of a problem as they'll be constantly be getting power. it might not work on your RC planes but your ultralights and possibly your homemade paraglider could work with one.
Awesome video! I can't wait to see the improvements you'll make for the flight ready one - I wonder if rod bearings would add too much weight to be counter-productive
So glad to see a fellow solenoid engine lover
Hi Peter! I love your videos keep up the great work!
A summary of the material used, bed temp, nozzle temp and speeds would be cool for those of us EXTREMELY new to using 3D printers, you know, all the settings yall know by heart but us new folks don't have a clue with... Cool vid man.... very cool
I've been imagining a similar test for years.
The major difference is that instead of rods going through the solenoids, you have combustion engine pistons.
at the end of the cylinder (or around there) you have electromagnets.
My question being, how little energy would the engine need to spin?
2:32 "Purely stupid and mechanical and cool" is the most accurate description for this channel I can think of.
It'd be neat to substitute a balance shaft on an unbalanced ICE configuration for some kind of generator. Modulating feedback could allow for engine developers to actively control the damping characteristics of the conventional balance shaft while reaping back some of what otherwise is a small but necessary parasitic loss.
Good build. A couple of suggestions, you need to get away from the mechanical magnetic switch and the cam lobe in favor of a transistor NPN switch with optical timing. This will make energy transfer more efficient. Second you need to set up polarity reversal and solenoids capable of utilizing reverse polarity. This way every down and up stroke is a power stroke instead of just every other stroke being a power stroke. Last, you need a bigger propeller and rudder for your boat. Have fun! 😎👍
could you use a second solenoid below the existing one to pull back the "piston" giving it 2 pulls per piston per rotation? (sort of like cycling with clips so you can pull the pedal up as well as push it down)
theres no doubt a lot of efficiency gains you can make by changing the rest of the engine since things like firing order make a huge impact to engines like this. iirc 6 and 12 cylinder engines are considered the "best" when it comes to overall engine balance, although im not sure how fast an engine has to run before that becomes an issue, but you might as well give it all the help it can get lmao
You could add "reverse" solenoids but it would be easier to use push-pull solenoids which can change the direction by itself.
You need a 90 degree throw crankshaft. Your engine is basically a 2 stroke (fires every revolution not every other), and the 90 degree crank will give you 4 discreet firing pulses, a much smoother run, and not be "fighting itself" so much. If the solenoids get hot really fast, that's a good clue that your timing is way off. Add to that the fighting itself, and you'll have that result.
Most normal boat in Ohio:
How is this top comment
what a cool video i am going to school to me a mechanic and this has got to be the most weird but cool engine i have seen so far
Came back from my childhood and your still at it 💪🏾🔥🔥
These engines honestly make me think of steam engines more than gas engines. Also Peter if you cover the engines and add a little bit of an opening for air flow, the heat generated from the engines could in theory keep them from getting cold! Also… you should totally use these to make a full scale titanic! The titanic had engines with those kinds of pistons that used steam. It would be a pretty cool model idea!
A full scale titanic?
The title made my head hurt until I saw the first 5 seconds of the video . Looks pretty cool and fun to play with .
If you turn the solenoid on 90 to 100 degrees before top dead center (TDC) and off10 degrees before TDC it wont effect the output torque but it will more than half your watt usage and really lower the coil heat. Some of the comments had different switching suggestions which I agree , that type of switch gets less accurate as the RPM goes up. Even running that switch to trigger a transistor works better but a hall or optical works the best
My son and I built an air powered go cart about 13 years ago, you can see it on my channel. It used a pneumatic actuator to pedal bicycle cranks. We used a latching circuit with two magnetic switches on the cranks so we got push and pull as the cranks rotated. This provided power in both directions rather than just pulling in your single cylinder test, perhaps that would help? Not sure if your solenoids can push as well as pull..
Cool experiment, always enjoy your creations!
Even his calipers are modified 😱Dam I love this dude 😂
i love the way your crazy mind works Peter ,Dont ever grow up
This guy should work at Tesla very intelligent we need more guys like this to help influence the young people
You're a ray of sunshine during these weird times. lol
hello I'm from Indonesia🇮🇩, I really like your content, I hope you can upload videos more often on RUclips
ALMOST AT 2 Million!
It looks like fun but some things to tweak? Use the flywheel bolt metal or cams for 4 x switches at 90 degree angle spacings to bridge circuits for each solenoid. Change from flat 4 cylinder to 90,180,270,360 degree crank big end angles to permit starting in any position. Lube the solenoids with silicone. Drop the center of gravity of the boat. Consider using a speaker coil arangement instead, to permit power on both strokes. Mount the solenoids in a V arangement or flat 4 to drop the center of gravity.
It's just Yaaay moment when Peter Sripol , William Osman and Michael Reeves post a video🔥🙌
It's neat that you based the toy boat on a scaled down version of your solar boat!
I love the attention to detail and boat top coating
You'll probably have to wind your own solenoids. I've always been fascinated with solenoid engines!
I'd love to see other odd engines do work like this. The sterling engine is the most intriguing to me.
i love how happy peter gets when it worked the first time. great and wholesome video!
You are genius , you have develop electric engine for future electric cars keep it up
Electric piston engines will have a promising future like there internal gas
combustion engine predecessor.
Well done, i have an improvement to offer : the switch can not hold all those sparks for long, you better use a FET transistor to run the solenoid's,
no damage will cause to the switch. good luck.
the inline 4 idea is cool, add some deviding bearings inbetween the arms of the crankshaft and add a sort of watercooling around the solenoids powered by a bigger flywheel
You'll get much more torque by rotating the crank lobes of 2 of the cylinders, producing 1 power-stroke every 90 degrees instead of 2 every 180. it does mean running 2 sets of switches but it will make a noticeable difference. and it should self-start if your timing is right. you could run an independent switch and cam for each solenoid as that would allow for fine adjustment of the timing but that's only really useful when squeezing the last bit of power from the engine.
probably the biggest factor effecting solenoid engines is the parasitic drag of the moving parts, you can reduce this by using teflon "piston rings" to support the solenoid slug in the tube, but they can be fiddly to get right, and require a pretty good cylinder surface. you're probably looking at custom solenoids at that point, but that's the only way you're going to get anything to fly anyway so you may wish to explore that option. I reckon a PTFE bobbin, with the right winding and a lightweight rod with a neodymium magnet core might work for flight. A radial might be a good option too!
Try using an optical switch to fire the solenoids and adjust the timing and you might get more torque out of it. In automotive terms this is known as a dwell tachometer. The electronic commutation of the motor should give you more efficiency.
Dc vs Ac. If can get your solenoid to work on Ac, keep your voltage low, amps high and use electrical frequency to control the speed.
Good work I enjoyed your video. 😊
I can't wait to see this fly. Always love how informative your videos are.
Make a flame thrower that goes up to 25 feet all you need is a fire extinguisher and a bike valve gas torch or metal bar or just watch videos. I would like if you could do this thank you
Its a revolution!
This technology on car will feel like fuel engine!
The roar of fuel engine in electric car..
"Old age of 30" 😸Wait till you hit 50! Great video!
To extract the most power you will wanna balance all the rotating bits, and lube up any bits that are metal on metal/plastic on plastic. Should help with the vibration issues and for the torque issue just change the gear ratio from the motor to propeller. Ik this was just for the memes but hope to see more of things like this!!!
Just a casual classic teak pleasure boat. No need to mention
Peter, now make one with double acting solenoids, energized them on the upward and downward stroke by reversing their voltage polarity accordingly. You will double the strength, and the heat lol Also, make it three cylinders, spaced at 120 degree from each other axially. And control the three phases voltage waves with a microcontroller triggered by a crank sensor. It would run smooth and be powerful, don't forget to force liquid cooling thru you solenoids! See your video in a year.
In addition to the 90deg offset like everyone else is mentioning, I also think adding more mains would make a huge difference, u can see the crank bending hugely at the end with the prop on it... bending crank removes sooo much potential energy, if the crank had more mains and could focus on turning rather than bending would like double or triple your efficiency I'd say
You could make it more powerful by not only adding more "cylinders" but by using thinner wire to wrap more coils, this makes a stronger magnetic field, making the motor stronger
Looks so cool, regardless of its performance.
You can put a switch on the other side of the cam from existing switch and do something clever to reverse the solenoid current flow on the reverse stroke, so that the cylinder becomes dual acting. You can't get that from a gas-powered engine!
If you wanted to get really fancy and improve the efficiency one could use hall-effect sensors and an electronic control module to run it all. If you can reduce the current flow it might become a bit more efficient. Very cool!
Cool concept as usual. Finally detailed craftsmanship. Of course you're taking all of the inefficiencies of an ice engine. Too many moving parts, power loss from friction and heat and building them into the electric motor which is the most efficient use of energy. There is at this point. But I have to admit it is very cool
I heard at the end of the video that the switch burned out due to the intense sparks due to the conmutation of high electric power. You could use transistors to switch the high power electricity from the solenoids, and only using the switch to conmutate a lower electric power that controlls the transistors and that does not burn the switch, it could improve the life expectancy and reliability of the mecanical switch you used for the solenoid engine.
Now add a micro controller, four relays, and a hall effect sensor to the camshaft and try to optimize the efficiency of the engine through timing!
Peter Sripol Man of the People
Basically term, down stroke when the connecting rod(and piston) is moving away from the cylinder (making more space inside the cylinder) and the up stroke is when the connecting rod (and piston) is moving two-day the cylinder (making less space inside the cylinder)
Some one need to invest on this man
Congratulations 2 million family❤️❤️
lovely build mate specially the boat and the song goes hand in hand
solenoid motors had caught my attention over the past month actually.. guess i was not alone! started from looking more into coil driven linear stepper motors. looks like a railgun but for controlled positioning. Props... Thanks for sharing
Now you need to do one that uses digital solenoid control with a microcontroller! A simple 36-1 wheel timing a sine wave to run the solenoids.
Your actual boat looks pretty cool too
There is an article from an old popular mechanics magazine that is called "the backyard and birdbath railroad". It uses solenoid piston motors to power a small child's ride on train