"Oh no! Wasps!" from Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling modulates between 11/8 and 12/8. It's super cool and ends up almost feeling like an off-kilter waltz
I was going to mention this one, and guess what: it doesn't stop there! It also has bars in 7/8, one each in 6/8 and 9/8, and of course the 4/4 section at the end to rein things back in for a bit.
In my high school marching band, a large portion of our show was in 7/8, while all the rest was mostly 3/4. Our metronome played every quarter note. In total, we had an even number of 7/8 measures, but due to some odd phrasing, there were some sections where the downbeats of first measures were ALL off with the metronome. We had to practice with an offbeat metronome. That's just mathematics.
@@williamsanborn9195 We didn't march on every pulse, we're not that crazy 😅 We marched it divided as 2+2+3 (counting out loud as 1, 2, 3&a). Fortunately most of the 7/8 was actually a percussion feature and there wasn't too much real marching, and when there was, the shapes weren't too crazy ...I say "we marched", but I was in the pit lol
Bit of a correction: the main instrument in Wild Woods is actually an oboe. There was a behind the scenes video of the recording session, and they showed the oboist playing the melody. 🙂
@@sam_bamalam to be double fair, those are quite similar sounding I struments. Both conical reed instrument. The big difference is just, that the oboe is slightly more annoying 🤣
Yeah, the more technical end of prog is full of those sorts of passages but Dream Theater in particular really seem to love shredding through fast meter changes. And of course math metal takes it even further, check out Behold... The Arctopus and Orthrelm for some really insane examples of alienating mixed meter nonsense.
I've always seen Mad Luca as a thematic piece of an insane man making his last stand. It's his adrenaline spiking at random intervals while he's bleeding out. Unpredictable and dangerous.
requiem and some of the p-rank bosses' musics constantly shift the time signature, i found this frequent shift of the time signature quite common on the breakcore genre
Another thing that can be done with odd time signatures is if you make your listener get used to an odd time signature, common time signatures now feel odd. That can be felt in a song like Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabriel; the song is 7/4 all the way except 2 bars of 4/4 in "you can grab your things I'm going to take you home"
"I Should Build the Man a Statue" from Risk of Rain 2 is another good recent example. The first section is in 7/4 time but with the first beat occasionally offset, which makes it hard to pin down. Sounds super natural if you aren't trying to count it but really messes with your brain if you try to figure out the time signature
Yessss I loved part 1 and it introduced me to strong one masked man which I then became a little obsessed with. I wonder which of these will pique my interest most
Begging of you for the next odd time signature video to include any of the Risk of Rain Ost. Pretty much all of it is in some odd time signature, but particularly, Arctic Oscillation from RoR Returns is in some absolutely bizarre time signature.
Judgement Day from Mega Man Zero 3 is also one that keeps flipping time signatures: 8/8 for one bar, 6/8 for the next, 8/8 for the next two 6/8 for one bar, 5/8 for the next, 6/8 for the next two, all for 10 measures 5/8 for 4 measures 6/8 for 4.5 measures I wasn't even aware how crazy the time signature was until I tried making a cover of it!
I always learn so much from your videos-thank you for making them! I would LOVE to see a special episode on the odd time signatures in the Hades I & II soundtracks. Out of Tartarus, Scourge of the Furies, The Silver Sisters, and The Titan of Time to name just a few!
Literally? Literally? It was literally, huh? Was it, literally? Oh, literally? Literally literally literally! Literally is all I can say! Literally! I HAVE TO USE IT IN EVERY SENTENCE!!! LITERALLY!!!! LITERALLY LITERALLY!!!!!
Mathematics are used to describe the world with abstract, fonctional and factual elements. People bringing on mathematics everytime in each thing they prove are oozing my head...
love these so much! the track "horizon" from the celeste community mod strawberry jam is maybe my favorite odd time vg score. it's in 16? i guess? but it switches from feeling like 5-5-6 to 6-6-4 soooo smoothly and always manages to keep u on your toes a bit. tasty stuff!
I dont leave comments on videos too often but i gotta say you consistently drop some of my favorite content on the app, as someone who appreciates tf outta music especially in videogames but has 0 knowledge of anything music theory related, you explain these concepts in a way thats real easy to understand and digest n also point out things i never really noticed in the tracks i already enjoy. You fs one of my favorite creators on the platform n i cant wait till the next drop.
I feel so vindicated in getting Balatro's time sig right when everyone was saying it was 7/8. You explained what I was hearing but didn't have words for
One of my favorite instances of odd time signature comes from The Great Ace Attorney. The song "Joint Reasoning" (any version) has a 7/8-time signature. It gives the tone of being silly and playful, even though you're currently investigating a suspect in a murder case. It matches the character Herlock Sholmes who is trying to make deductions, but they come off as ridiculous and unserious. At the end of The Great Ace Attorney: resolve, you see Herlock Sholmes in a different context. He knows this case isn't one he should do how usual shenanigans with. "No time for games", he says. During this investigation segment, he goes straight to the point and seems like he's finally using 100 percent of his genius. To math this, the song evolves into a straight 4/4-time signature and includes his main theme to really sell that we're seeing the true side of this odd character.
i was so happy to hear Wild Woods, but the melody is played by an oboe! (i am compelled to point this out due to being an oboist) it really does sound a bit like a soprano sax, but it's definitely an oboe (at least according to the OST credits i found online)
Great episode! I think Odd signatures means that the actual number is odd, so 3/4 is also an odd signature. But since the most commons odd signatures people talk about are like 5/4 or 7/8 people think of it as odd as in unusual and use that turn for anything less common to hear. :)
Always been a big fan of odd time signatures! Its always exciting when I realize a jam has a unique construction to it, an extra note or a missing beat to spice things up. I try to incorporate them myself whenever I feel I can get away with it - my crowning achievement with time sigs so far is my "Dripping Yellow Madness" track (Homestar Runner fans might recognize the title, or not lol) Love seeing this breakdown of these tracks!
Suikoden 1 and 2 have extraordinary soundtracks, full of quartal harmonies, weird time signatures, unique chord progressions, rhythms, Gregorian chant, etc. The two Rivers theme is one of my favorites because the opening melodic figure consists of 3 measures of 4/4, against a percussion rhythm of 4 measures of 3/4. Gregminster's theme is in Eb Mixolydian. And the Battle theme of Suikoden 1 (and it's remix in Suikoden 2) has such extraordinary chords and a fantastic 7/4 groove (it's so good that I actually fully transcribed it in MuseScore, and I NEVER finish the things I start transcribing).
Probably my favorite example of odd time signatures in a video game is Leshy's theme from Inscryption. It establishes a pattern of 3 measures of 6/4 followed by a measure of 5/4. Once the pattern gets established, it starts sprinkling in the leitmotifs of the three Act 1 bosses (at least on the OST version; when playing in game the leitmotif matches the mask Leshy's currently wearing). Then it goes into 4/4 about halfway through driven by the intense, steady cello of the Angler's theme to segue into the Trapper's theme, which sounds like "We Will Rock You" by way of Ed Gein before moving back into the 6/4. 6/4, 6/4, 5/4 pattern established earlier. It's such a cool theme because of how well it fits Leshy's character. The music frequently throws out new things to keep you on your toes but is never unfairly inscrutable, much like the game master himself. The first time I really listened to this theme and actually understood what was going on was a damn revelation for me in how incredible composition can be.
Another commenter was asking for a _Touhou_ music Part 2, and I agree! Part 1 was about key changes, so why not a Part 2 about _time signature_ changes? Here's some of my picks. *“Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17”* goes from 3/4 to 4/4 between sections. *“Night Falls ~ Evening Star”* switches from 4/4 to 3/4! However... my favourite use of this concept is probably *“The Primal Scene of Japan the Girl Saw”* from _Mountain of Faith._ It’s almost entirely in 4/4, but near the beginning, a phrase is played in this gentle, swaying waltz. Then, much later, it comes back as this awesome fast paced riff in a _3, 3, 2_ pattern. It’s very good; but for what it's worth, listen to the faster _Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost_ arrangement and not the original _Mountain of Faith_ version. *“Hartmann’s Youkai Girl”* is also worth a shout-out, but it was already covered in Part 1. UPDATE: *"Lunatic Eyes ~ Invisible Full Moon"* and *"Last Occultism ~ Esotericist of the Present World"!* I knew I was forgetting songs that did the 3/4 to 4/4 switch thing!
Also wanted to mention *Retribution for the Eternal Night,* you could argue that it has a time signature of 11/4 (groups of 3 + 3 + 3 + 2) followed by 4/4. But even the 4/4 section has a weird dotted rhythm melody that almost implies a some kind of clave rhythm, but everything else lays down the basic 4/4. Here's a piano score that helps keep track of the time: ruclips.net/video/OF4tXIeFmOE/видео.htmlsi=t-M61LLjaax0Pifp And there's also *Rural City Makai Esoteria,* which has alternating patterns of 5/4 + 6/4. But it doesn't even hold the total 11/4 pattern consistently, sometimes it'll have a group of 12/4 or 10/4 by doubling one of the smaller groupings. Another piano arrangement to help show the time signature: ruclips.net/video/3PtfNRQoWFY/видео.htmlsi=rULB9EhySqBRLp0C
And before I forget: the ever-famous “UN Owen Was Her?” from _Embodiement of Scarlet Devil_ goes from 5/4 to 4/4 to 6/8. The _Sunken Fossil World_ arrangement is… well… it goes back and forth from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/8 to 3/8 to 5/4 and that’s not even a joke.
@@-butterfly-594 Oh damn, I totally forgot about *"Theme of Eastern Story"!* To the uninitiated, this is a leitmotif used in almost every _Touhou_ title screen song, and a lot of other places; including the aforementioned *"Retribution for the Eternal Night ~ Imperishable Night".* By the way: the song _titled_ *"Theme of Eastern Story"* from _Akyuu's Untouched Score Volume 5_ is not the original version, but a new arrangement made in the style of the first _Touhou_ game.
Hades 2 has some fantastically weird time signatures that manage to sound almost completely natural. "I am gonna claw (Out your eyes and drown you to death)" is in 11/4, and "Titan of time" is in 25/8!
another odd time signature you should look at is "Eyes Up" from destiny 1. 3 bars of 7/4 followed by a bar of 6/4 followed by 3 bars of 7/4 followed by a bar of 6/4 followed by 3 bars of 7/4 followed by 2 bars of 4/4. genuinely a wild composition and it sounds so good
I liked how the clip at 2:31 paralleled the point of showcasing 2 different ways 5/4 can feel hip by showing the 2 ramps in the map. Interestingly, these ramps have 3 and 2 arrows respectively for the clave! (s/o to yoko shimomura, queen of odd time sigs. I was like "surely he'll mention her" and the very first track in the video was Weapon Factory lmao)
I do believe the "odd" should actually be interpreted as "not even" - at least when explaining the general principle. Granted, this will make 3/4 odd and not 12/8 or 6/8, but these are edge cases anyway, however you choose to use the term. Categories are seemingly doomed to have exceptions and vagueness, so I think you have to think pragmatically about WHY a given categorization is used. In the case of "odd time signature as not-even", I think there are two reasons: 1. It is likely the historical origin of the use of "odd", as opposed to "strange", "weird", or any other adjective that would have been clearer. This isn't necessarily important in itself, but given that "odd=not-even" is the most common explanation, it makes the story students are presented with more cohesive. 2. A time signature having an odd number of beats tells us that you can't split it neatly in half, which is actually useful information for a lot of Western* audiences, who are used to for instance dancing in double or half speeds in relation to the rhythm. You will have to excuse this philosopher knee-jerk response to something I find academically objectionable 😅
I want to shout out Blockade from Ace Combat 04 for being the first 7/4 piece I ever encountered that split the measure exclusively into 2 equal halves of 3.5 beats each instead of the typical 4+3. The equal half split feel is so strong in the strings that you'd almost have a solid argument for calling it 7/8, except that the percussion underneath it is equally strongly indicating 7/4 with straight quarter notes, forming a cross-rhythm with the strings that syncs for the first half of each measure and then desyncs for the latter half. I think this unique rhythm is a big part of why this track stands out so much in many players' minds despite not being one of the big climactic tracks.
I remember hearing the Cube Corp theme from Pokemon Unbound and being really impressed when I realized it was 5/4. That’s a fan game too - these madlads went all-out making it. I was also proud of myself for realizing it XD
My absolute favorite odd time signature in a game soundtrack is from Einhänder, track 10 ("Warning"). It takes a little bit of a slow build, but it gives me shivers every time by the end.
I couldn't pay attention to the Sagat analysis because my mind was too busy being blown by the fact that electrocuted Honda turns into Blanka. How many hours did I spend playing this game as a kid and not notice this?
Probably not enough. The gameplay footage is taken from _Rainbow Edition,_ a madcap rom hack of _Street Fighter II_ with a bunch of deliberately absurd changes. I can’t be certain the “E. Honda turns into Blanka” magic trick is specifically a change made in _Rainbow Edition,_ but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.
Would love a video on the Guessing Game House theme from Zelda A Link to the Past which is entirely in whole tone scale, and maybe other video game songs that use whole tone scale!
The suikoden piece reminds me of a "solo instrument" version of The Dance Of Eternity by Dream Theater 😂 chaos in a beautiful way. Suprised not to see nay Sakuraba in here! Specifically Golden Sun. He comes from a prog rock background and uses a lot of odd time signatures in his music, especially battle themes. Some cool fusion concepts as well. On the first track, I think the 5/4 clave was very much on purpose and meant to be heard. One thing I've found with odd time signatures is they can have this really fun pumping feeling if you do that (3+2 in 5, 3+3+4 in 7, etc) that has a strong driving force to it. And, as we all know, repetition legitimizes. So after 2 repetitions or so most people don't even realize but they're bobbing along to the off time beat like they knew the whole time.
Great video! The main theme from Terminator, the original, comes to mind. Very fun! The idea is to hide the nerdy time signature and make it sound fun!
If you do a part 3 of this series, I hope you mention the track "Oh No! WASPS!" from Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling. The time signatures in that one are pretty wild but it still creates a solid groove. ...That's just mathematics.
one piece i'd love to see you cover is the milkman conspiracy, from psychonauts. i'm always reminded of it when thinking about odd time signatures, because it actually doesn't have a unique time signature- it just feels like it does because of the instrumentation. it's one of the few pieces of music i can think of that, despite being in totally normal 4/4, actually manages to feel like it should be counted differently just because of how frequently it switches instruments!
One song I've really been enjoying with an odd time signature is The Moonlit Pinnacle from Rabbit & Steel While 5/4 may not be the most interesting time signature, I honestly didn't notice until I started counting the beats. For the longest time I thought it was in 3/4, but that's probably because there's one section that swaps 😅 The composer did a really good job hiding it, imo.
I was so distracted by rainbow edition I didn’t initially pay attention to what was said about Sagat’s theme.
Glad i wasnt the only one lmao
I don't know what that means
It's a janky bootleg romhack version of the game it's why Ken and Sagat are shooting a half dozen wavy fireballs at once.
@@TheRealBatabii street fighter rainbow edition
it's a goofy version with game breaking moves, like the double tiger shot you see in this video
It reaches a point where there’s like a dozen sine-waving Tiger Shots on-screen and I just _can’t_ focus on what is being said
Part 2 is twice as good as Part 1 - that's just mathematics.
This is the first comment. Thats just mathematics
I'm the third comment (by the way HOW IS THIS COMMENT FROM 3 DAYS AGO, THE VIDEO IS LITERALLY FROM 1 MINUTE AGO)
@@Sedyon Probably early access for supporters.
Not if youre Terrance Howard
nice to see i wasn not the only one to comment something like this xD
Castle Bleck from super paper Mario uses 13/8, 4/4, 3/4, 5/4, and 15/8, that game has a quite a few odd time signatures
castle bleck quickly came to my mind when thinking about ofd time signatures
edit: odd*
i hope this one's in the next part
"Oh no! Wasps!" from Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling modulates between 11/8 and 12/8. It's super cool and ends up almost feeling like an off-kilter waltz
I was going to mention this one, and guess what: it doesn't stop there! It also has bars in 7/8, one each in 6/8 and 9/8, and of course the 4/4 section at the end to rein things back in for a bit.
Rainbow Edition as the choice of gameplay background while discussing Sagat's theme!? CULTURED.
Balatro is such a groove. So well done.
In my high school marching band, a large portion of our show was in 7/8, while all the rest was mostly 3/4.
Our metronome played every quarter note. In total, we had an even number of 7/8 measures, but due to some odd phrasing, there were some sections where the downbeats of first measures were ALL off with the metronome. We had to practice with an offbeat metronome.
That's just mathematics.
WHAT?! 7/8 time in a marching band show?! What was the marching like? Did you march on every pulse like what Carolina Crown did in their 2022 show? 😮
@@williamsanborn9195 We didn't march on every pulse, we're not that crazy 😅
We marched it divided as 2+2+3 (counting out loud as 1, 2, 3&a). Fortunately most of the 7/8 was actually a percussion feature and there wasn't too much real marching, and when there was, the shapes weren't too crazy
...I say "we marched", but I was in the pit lol
Bit of a correction: the main instrument in Wild Woods is actually an oboe. There was a behind the scenes video of the recording session, and they showed the oboist playing the melody. 🙂
“Wow, I love this oboe in the Mario Kart track!” “…soprano sax…” 👀
It was oboe. I really wish he had checked song credits... 😮💨
I just wanted to ask the same, a very oboy sounding soprano 😂
I was like hey it’s my instrument! Wait, he said soprano sax?? 8bit I’m disappointed in you bro 😂
To be fair, he's likely a pianist by training. So timbres aren't his strong point.
@@sam_bamalam to be double fair, those are quite similar sounding I struments. Both conical reed instrument. The big difference is just, that the oboe is slightly more annoying 🤣
The “Mad Luca” writing reminds me so much of “The Dance of Eternity” by Dream Theater (which came out around the same time).
I was hearing the final bit of the instrumental in Metropolis Pt 1 - the part with the rests right before the alternating-5s-and-7s part.
Yeah, the more technical end of prog is full of those sorts of passages but Dream Theater in particular really seem to love shredding through fast meter changes. And of course math metal takes it even further, check out Behold... The Arctopus and Orthrelm for some really insane examples of alienating mixed meter nonsense.
Literally scrolled down to check if someone already said this before I would lol
I never noticed how strong the Ace Attorney vibes are with Balatro, which is one of the greatest compliments I can give a piece of music
Using Rainbow Edition clips for Sagat is certainly a choice...haha
What is that some kind of ROM hack?
@@TheRealBatabii A rom hack that was indeed played in actual arcades along with the original Championship Edition.
@@TheRealBatabii yup, where everyone was MvC levels of crazy
I've always seen Mad Luca as a thematic piece of an insane man making his last stand. It's his adrenaline spiking at random intervals while he's bleeding out. Unpredictable and dangerous.
I'd love to have you cover some ULTRAKILL songs. A good part of them use odd time signatures to create a feeling of chaos, and it is great.
I NEED 8BMT to talk about about 7-3’s Danse Macabre
requiem and some of the p-rank bosses' musics constantly shift the time signature, i found this frequent shift of the time signature quite common on the breakcore genre
my favorite niche music concept has now been covered by my favorite music theory channel twice and i couldn't be happier
Tell it to someone who cares.
@@jessevallejo8797people who care would've watched this video
I don’t know that odd time signatures are necessarily niche, but I share your enthusiasm
@@jessevallejo8797 there’s so much major chords out there and you choose to be minor chord
@@jessevallejo8797
This is a public comment section genius lmao
Opening with Wild Woods, one of my favourite (sound)tracks in all of Mario Kart? Excellent taste, thank you
Wild Woods appreciators, rise up 🗣️
I love odd time. The way the entire pattern flips between on beat and off beat is fascinating.
Double-time Sagat theme goes so hard, one of my faves, thanks for that breakdown!
Mad Luca feels like the soundtrack to a deranged mind!
Another thing that can be done with odd time signatures is if you make your listener get used to an odd time signature, common time signatures now feel odd. That can be felt in a song like Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabriel; the song is 7/4 all the way except 2 bars of 4/4 in "you can grab your things I'm going to take you home"
I love Sagat's theme! funny enough was singing it last week while doing chores around the house haha.
so from what I'm hearing Mad Luca is just Marx's theme with somehow even less consistency
"I Should Build the Man a Statue" from Risk of Rain 2 is another good recent example.
The first section is in 7/4 time but with the first beat occasionally offset, which makes it hard to pin down. Sounds super natural if you aren't trying to count it but really messes with your brain if you try to figure out the time signature
Balatro appreciation!!! I love to see it
Yessss I loved part 1 and it introduced me to strong one masked man which I then became a little obsessed with. I wonder which of these will pique my interest most
Begging of you for the next odd time signature video to include any of the Risk of Rain Ost. Pretty much all of it is in some odd time signature, but particularly, Arctic Oscillation from RoR Returns is in some absolutely bizarre time signature.
"I should build the man a statue" from the most recent expansion is another good mind-bender
The "halving the bar" segment with Wild Woods immediately reminded me of Eternal Fight from Final Fantasy XIII-2
Judgement Day from Mega Man Zero 3 is also one that keeps flipping time signatures:
8/8 for one bar, 6/8 for the next, 8/8 for the next two
6/8 for one bar, 5/8 for the next, 6/8 for the next two, all for 10 measures
5/8 for 4 measures
6/8 for 4.5 measures
I wasn't even aware how crazy the time signature was until I tried making a cover of it!
A lot of devs, especially on the music side, were listening to prog rock and metal so you would end up with super common prog tropes
I always learn so much from your videos-thank you for making them! I would LOVE to see a special episode on the odd time signatures in the Hades I & II soundtracks. Out of Tartarus, Scourge of the Furies, The Silver Sisters, and The Titan of Time to name just a few!
"That's just mathematics" - literally just most of music theory
Literally? Literally? It was literally, huh? Was it, literally? Oh, literally? Literally literally literally! Literally is all I can say! Literally! I HAVE TO USE IT IN EVERY SENTENCE!!! LITERALLY!!!! LITERALLY LITERALLY!!!!!
@@L_TrainFiguratively.
@@L_Train Literally just calm down dude
@@L_Train Yanno? To me, this seems like something Kevin Macleoid would write in a discription.
It has that character
Mathematics are used to describe the world with abstract, fonctional and factual elements.
People bringing on mathematics everytime in each thing they prove are oozing my head...
I always thought the time signature of that Mario Kart 64 music sounded a bit off. I used to think it was 5:4. Very interesting video!
love these so much! the track "horizon" from the celeste community mod strawberry jam is maybe my favorite odd time vg score. it's in 16? i guess? but it switches from feeling like 5-5-6 to 6-6-4 soooo smoothly and always manages to keep u on your toes a bit. tasty stuff!
As a Mario kart 8 man I never get tired of hearing people talk about how awesome wild woods is. Easily my favorite song in the game
I dont leave comments on videos too often but i gotta say you consistently drop some of my favorite content on the app, as someone who appreciates tf outta music especially in videogames but has 0 knowledge of anything music theory related, you explain these concepts in a way thats real easy to understand and digest n also point out things i never really noticed in the tracks i already enjoy. You fs one of my favorite creators on the platform n i cant wait till the next drop.
Suikoden II , an absolute diamond game and OST❤.
I feel so vindicated in getting Balatro's time sig right when everyone was saying it was 7/8. You explained what I was hearing but didn't have words for
One of my favorite instances of odd time signature comes from The Great Ace Attorney. The song "Joint Reasoning" (any version) has a 7/8-time signature. It gives the tone of being silly and playful, even though you're currently investigating a suspect in a murder case. It matches the character Herlock Sholmes who is trying to make deductions, but they come off as ridiculous and unserious.
At the end of The Great Ace Attorney: resolve, you see Herlock Sholmes in a different context. He knows this case isn't one he should do how usual shenanigans with. "No time for games", he says. During this investigation segment, he goes straight to the point and seems like he's finally using 100 percent of his genius. To math this, the song evolves into a straight 4/4-time signature and includes his main theme to really sell that we're seeing the true side of this odd character.
Your explanation on 7/4 is exactly why 7/8 is my fav.
i was so happy to hear Wild Woods, but the melody is played by an oboe! (i am compelled to point this out due to being an oboist) it really does sound a bit like a soprano sax, but it's definitely an oboe (at least according to the OST credits i found online)
Your part 1 is one of my favorite videos! So glad to see another part!
One fun song to take a look at would be FF9's Run. Great sense of urgency in that one.
nice to see some funky time signatures. Still cant get over the tupplets for toddlers video ya'll made years ago.
OMG YES!!!! I saw the Sagat thumbnail and clicked immediately
My favorite youtube channel by far. Thank you for your hard work. Makes me feel proud of listening videogame music in my daily basis. 💚
Great episode! I think Odd signatures means that the actual number is odd, so 3/4 is also an odd signature. But since the most commons odd signatures people talk about are like 5/4 or 7/8 people think of it as odd as in unusual and use that turn for anything less common to hear. :)
This is the first time I really listened to the bassline in Sagat's theme, and you know what? Mega groovy. Dope video!
Always been a big fan of odd time signatures! Its always exciting when I realize a jam has a unique construction to it, an extra note or a missing beat to spice things up. I try to incorporate them myself whenever I feel I can get away with it - my crowning achievement with time sigs so far is my "Dripping Yellow Madness" track (Homestar Runner fans might recognize the title, or not lol)
Love seeing this breakdown of these tracks!
what I've learned from this video is not to stray outside of 4/4 when trying to make music for a while
Suikoden 1 and 2 have extraordinary soundtracks, full of quartal harmonies, weird time signatures, unique chord progressions, rhythms, Gregorian chant, etc. The two Rivers theme is one of my favorites because the opening melodic figure consists of 3 measures of 4/4, against a percussion rhythm of 4 measures of 3/4. Gregminster's theme is in Eb Mixolydian. And the Battle theme of Suikoden 1 (and it's remix in Suikoden 2) has such extraordinary chords and a fantastic 7/4 groove (it's so good that I actually fully transcribed it in MuseScore, and I NEVER finish the things I start transcribing).
Probably my favorite example of odd time signatures in a video game is Leshy's theme from Inscryption. It establishes a pattern of 3 measures of 6/4 followed by a measure of 5/4. Once the pattern gets established, it starts sprinkling in the leitmotifs of the three Act 1 bosses (at least on the OST version; when playing in game the leitmotif matches the mask Leshy's currently wearing). Then it goes into 4/4 about halfway through driven by the intense, steady cello of the Angler's theme to segue into the Trapper's theme, which sounds like "We Will Rock You" by way of Ed Gein before moving back into the 6/4. 6/4, 6/4, 5/4 pattern established earlier. It's such a cool theme because of how well it fits Leshy's character. The music frequently throws out new things to keep you on your toes but is never unfairly inscrutable, much like the game master himself. The first time I really listened to this theme and actually understood what was going on was a damn revelation for me in how incredible composition can be.
wild woods is such a pretty song, i love mk8's soundtrack sm
I was admittedly expecting the final movement of Dancing Mad on the list
I knew balatros music was kinda weird because I've watched dozens and dozens of hours of Northern Lion play it and I still love the music.
Another commenter was asking for a _Touhou_ music Part 2, and I agree!
Part 1 was about key changes, so why not a Part 2 about _time signature_ changes? Here's some of my picks.
*“Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17”* goes from 3/4 to 4/4 between sections. *“Night Falls ~ Evening Star”* switches from 4/4 to 3/4!
However... my favourite use of this concept is probably *“The Primal Scene of Japan the Girl Saw”* from _Mountain of Faith._ It’s almost entirely in 4/4, but near the beginning, a phrase is played in this gentle, swaying waltz. Then, much later, it comes back as this awesome fast paced riff in a _3, 3, 2_ pattern. It’s very good; but for what it's worth, listen to the faster _Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost_ arrangement and not the original _Mountain of Faith_ version.
*“Hartmann’s Youkai Girl”* is also worth a shout-out, but it was already covered in Part 1.
UPDATE: *"Lunatic Eyes ~ Invisible Full Moon"* and *"Last Occultism ~ Esotericist of the Present World"!* I knew I was forgetting songs that did the 3/4 to 4/4 switch thing!
Also wanted to mention *Retribution for the Eternal Night,* you could argue that it has a time signature of 11/4 (groups of 3 + 3 + 3 + 2) followed by 4/4. But even the 4/4 section has a weird dotted rhythm melody that almost implies a some kind of clave rhythm, but everything else lays down the basic 4/4.
Here's a piano score that helps keep track of the time: ruclips.net/video/OF4tXIeFmOE/видео.htmlsi=t-M61LLjaax0Pifp
And there's also *Rural City Makai Esoteria,* which has alternating patterns of 5/4 + 6/4. But it doesn't even hold the total 11/4 pattern consistently, sometimes it'll have a group of 12/4 or 10/4 by doubling one of the smaller groupings.
Another piano arrangement to help show the time signature: ruclips.net/video/3PtfNRQoWFY/видео.htmlsi=rULB9EhySqBRLp0C
And before I forget: the ever-famous “UN Owen Was Her?” from _Embodiement of Scarlet Devil_ goes from 5/4 to 4/4 to 6/8.
The _Sunken Fossil World_ arrangement is… well…
it goes back and forth from 4/4 to 3/4 to 5/8 to 3/8 to 5/4 and that’s not even a joke.
@@-butterfly-594 Oh damn, I totally forgot about *"Theme of Eastern Story"!* To the uninitiated, this is a leitmotif used in almost every _Touhou_ title screen song, and a lot of other places; including the aforementioned *"Retribution for the Eternal Night ~ Imperishable Night".*
By the way: the song _titled_ *"Theme of Eastern Story"* from _Akyuu's Untouched Score Volume 5_ is not the original version, but a new arrangement made in the style of the first _Touhou_ game.
babe wake up 8bmt just posted another video on odd time
Alright, I'm awake, sheesh
many Shinobi songs on the genesis are amazing.
Also Einhänder ost on PS1, has to be one of my favorite odd time masterpieces.
Super impressive video, as always! Great analysis and amazing selection of games as well!
Wild Woods really reminds me of something off of “A Song For All Seasons” by Renaissance.
I love when time signatures read like a chart of primes.
Very, very cool and informative! Looking forward to part 3, or any new 8bMT episode, really.
Yoooo the original video is how I found your channel! So excited for part 2
huge odd time signatures fan
I'm so excited to see a part 2 after all these years!!!
the last example they re called nested tuplets in the suikoden example you can see that in Frank Zappa's the Black Page
Correction: it's not a soprano saxophone playing on Wild Woods, it's actually an oboe !
Yes, the BGM of balatro. Odd signature and odd atmosphere catch me instantly.
Sagat's double time switch up goes so hard! Us Meagdrive owners had to wait to get it at home but I was soooo glad we did.
I saw Sagat on the thumbnail and immediately knew this was gonna be a good video. I love Sagat's SF2 theme.
Hades 2 has some fantastically weird time signatures that manage to sound almost completely natural. "I am gonna claw (Out your eyes and drown you to death)" is in 11/4, and "Titan of time" is in 25/8!
another odd time signature you should look at is "Eyes Up" from destiny 1. 3 bars of 7/4 followed by a bar of 6/4 followed by 3 bars of 7/4 followed by a bar of 6/4 followed by 3 bars of 7/4 followed by 2 bars of 4/4. genuinely a wild composition and it sounds so good
I think that 5/4 groove is very Jethro Tull-like. Even the instrumentation on the song is quite folkprogish.
I liked how the clip at 2:31 paralleled the point of showcasing 2 different ways 5/4 can feel hip by showing the 2 ramps in the map. Interestingly, these ramps have 3 and 2 arrows respectively for the clave!
(s/o to yoko shimomura, queen of odd time sigs. I was like "surely he'll mention her" and the very first track in the video was Weapon Factory lmao)
A part 2? Yus!!
Steel & Traps from Secret of Mana is an interesting one because it doesn't feel all that obtuse at first. But it definitely gets there eventually.
one of the best channels
Thank you for your work
Loved the breakdown regarding making odd meters groove.
I do believe the "odd" should actually be interpreted as "not even" - at least when explaining the general principle. Granted, this will make 3/4 odd and not 12/8 or 6/8, but these are edge cases anyway, however you choose to use the term.
Categories are seemingly doomed to have exceptions and vagueness, so I think you have to think pragmatically about WHY a given categorization is used. In the case of "odd time signature as not-even", I think there are two reasons:
1. It is likely the historical origin of the use of "odd", as opposed to "strange", "weird", or any other adjective that would have been clearer. This isn't necessarily important in itself, but given that "odd=not-even" is the most common explanation, it makes the story students are presented with more cohesive.
2. A time signature having an odd number of beats tells us that you can't split it neatly in half, which is actually useful information for a lot of Western* audiences, who are used to for instance dancing in double or half speeds in relation to the rhythm.
You will have to excuse this philosopher knee-jerk response to something I find academically objectionable 😅
Sagat's theme is an absolute masterclass
I couldn't even understand what you were saying with Sagat's theme because I was distracted by the jank-ass bootleg you were playing 😆😆😆
I want to shout out Blockade from Ace Combat 04 for being the first 7/4 piece I ever encountered that split the measure exclusively into 2 equal halves of 3.5 beats each instead of the typical 4+3. The equal half split feel is so strong in the strings that you'd almost have a solid argument for calling it 7/8, except that the percussion underneath it is equally strongly indicating 7/4 with straight quarter notes, forming a cross-rhythm with the strings that syncs for the first half of each measure and then desyncs for the latter half. I think this unique rhythm is a big part of why this track stands out so much in many players' minds despite not being one of the big climactic tracks.
Always a good day when you post a new video!
Also, watching Sagat reminds me that I have to do more stretching
I remember hearing the Cube Corp theme from Pokemon Unbound and being really impressed when I realized it was 5/4. That’s a fan game too - these madlads went all-out making it. I was also proud of myself for realizing it XD
The first game I noticed that clavé rhythm was FF8’s normal battle music. Little me had his mind blown when he finally puzzled that out.
Wow, banging analysis
Chronos theme from Hades 2 has something odd about it
There's a genshin impact song with a time signature using the fibonacci sequence and it is actually mind blowing
My absolute favorite odd time signature in a game soundtrack is from Einhänder, track 10 ("Warning"). It takes a little bit of a slow build, but it gives me shivers every time by the end.
I couldn't pay attention to the Sagat analysis because my mind was too busy being blown by the fact that electrocuted Honda turns into Blanka.
How many hours did I spend playing this game as a kid and not notice this?
Probably not enough. The gameplay footage is taken from _Rainbow Edition,_ a madcap rom hack of _Street Fighter II_ with a bunch of deliberately absurd changes.
I can’t be certain the “E. Honda turns into Blanka” magic trick is specifically a change made in _Rainbow Edition,_ but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.
Would love a video on the Guessing Game House theme from Zelda A Link to the Past which is entirely in whole tone scale, and maybe other video game songs that use whole tone scale!
The suikoden piece reminds me of a "solo instrument" version of The Dance Of Eternity by Dream Theater 😂 chaos in a beautiful way.
Suprised not to see nay Sakuraba in here! Specifically Golden Sun. He comes from a prog rock background and uses a lot of odd time signatures in his music, especially battle themes. Some cool fusion concepts as well.
On the first track, I think the 5/4 clave was very much on purpose and meant to be heard. One thing I've found with odd time signatures is they can have this really fun pumping feeling if you do that (3+2 in 5, 3+3+4 in 7, etc) that has a strong driving force to it. And, as we all know, repetition legitimizes. So after 2 repetitions or so most people don't even realize but they're bobbing along to the off time beat like they knew the whole time.
Sure the Mad Luca song isn't traditionally fun to listen to, but I love it so much lol
Great video! The main theme from Terminator, the original, comes to mind. Very fun! The idea is to hide the nerdy time signature and make it sound fun!
My head started spinning after 15/16 time!
Hell yeah, another odd time signatures video! Now do a Touhou music part 2 lol
On that subject, there's the _Sunken Fossil World_ version of *“UN Owen Was Her?”, which is just _absurd._
@@iblitz95 Yeah that one even has several tempo changes too
More odd time signatures lets gooo
If you do a part 3 of this series, I hope you mention the track "Oh No! WASPS!" from Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling. The time signatures in that one are pretty wild but it still creates a solid groove. ...That's just mathematics.
one piece i'd love to see you cover is the milkman conspiracy, from psychonauts. i'm always reminded of it when thinking about odd time signatures, because it actually doesn't have a unique time signature- it just feels like it does because of the instrumentation. it's one of the few pieces of music i can think of that, despite being in totally normal 4/4, actually manages to feel like it should be counted differently just because of how frequently it switches instruments!
Yes! I remember I commented in part 1 asking about Sagat's theme!
The tarturus theme from hades 2 is also crazy. Much of the song is in 21/8 split into 8-8-5 but it also periodically has sections in 4/4 and 7/4
One song I've really been enjoying with an odd time signature is The Moonlit Pinnacle from Rabbit & Steel
While 5/4 may not be the most interesting time signature, I honestly didn't notice until I started counting the beats. For the longest time I thought it was in 3/4, but that's probably because there's one section that swaps 😅
The composer did a really good job hiding it, imo.
At 1:19, Wild Woods is not the only Mario Kart track in an odd time signature. The Winning Results music in MK64 is in 11/8