I don’t mind that Cawl managed to improve upon the work, given it took him millennia. Could be misremembering that though. Also, iirc the Black Templars were persuaded by Custodian envoys, though that might've been a different group of belligerents. Also, some of the Crusade fleets did apparently purge them later anyway? (Or maybe I'm thinking of the Dark Angels, though they totally did that too.) Of course, if GW really wanted to just introduce change and give the Imperium a needed boost to keep up with the rising tide of shit in the galaxy, there was a ready-made solution in the lore. Discover a damned STC. Maybe even one that was like a shittier version of the Van Saar's STC, so it provides a more extensive library but isn’t quite as potent as a functional one. Then we could see a sweeping rollout of tech upgrades for ALL the Imperial factions. That upgrade would naturally trickle down to the Orks (and Chaos), who would have shinier loot. The Eldar would be forced to deploy even more potent Wargear of their own to keep up (maybe sourced from a Craftworld that had been lost in the Webway sometime before or just after the Fall, so they have access to some of the Good Shit). The Tau would continue advancing their tech as normal. The Tyranids would continue to adapt because that's their shtick, and so on. I'm not inherently opposed to Primaris, but the "Rediscovered STC Library" route would have justified overhauls en masse for the entire Imperium at minimum. We coulda had new elite regiments of power-armored Guardsmen with plasma swords and volkite death rays. And one must tremble at the horrors the Sisters could have devised with new shiny shit on hand... The least of which could be installing some Butcher's Nails combined with enhanced (radical) augmentations as an alternative to a penitent engine. Scoop up a bunch of "irredeemables" and turn them into mass-produced (pseudo) Eversor Assassins driven into religious fury via modified Nails inflicting endless agony so long as they are not slaughtering "the faithless."
For me the problems with Primaris are: 1. Lore out of the ass. Like, come on, couldn't they at least link Cawl to Forbidden Founding? Also, how did he manage to do all this without being called Heretic? 2. Lack of customisation. How with for example Tactical Squad we really only had like two pairs of helmets 1 backpack that were the copies of themselves while the rest of the bits had something unique about them, while with Intercessors the models are really only different by poses??? 3. Lack of character. Hounds of Morkai are just Reivers with SW upggrade sprue! Just as Death Company Intercessors! 4. Downgrading of old units. Sanguinary Guard. Should I add more? . . . . . . . . . . ... Maybe that their death masks look more like Vulcan's head rather than Sanguinus's head imho
I mean they did one better and linked Cawl directly to emperor by emperor giving him directions on how to and that he should improve upon astartes in the past into a techpriest that would be assimilated into Cawl.... He even called the called said techpriest cawl and he responded "but my name is..." and emperor responded "for now".
I will always love the old firstborn, but I have grown to accept the primaris, for in my mind to separate them, to divide them into categories of firstborn and Primaris forever leaves a divide in the fandom, and makes us forget that they are all Space Marines, just as we are all Warhammer fans.
Is this the first video of Mr Bones 40K that you have watched boss? Because this guy is entertaining, relaxing and informative all in one. Pretty awesome channel
My problem with the Primaris marines is they are to space marines what the battlemaster is to warior. We heared you like spacemarines, so we put more space marine in you'r space marine.
Trazyn Is probably making his own space marine Legion With the DNA of fulgrim Just for fun And future use In probably upgrading their armor With necron technology Trazyn: Till the God emperor rises I will have to suffice (Trazyn Is truly The blood ravens Primarch )
I despise Primaries. They killed everything unique about Space Marines, invalidated all my minis, and made squads boring as fuck. Space marines were never just squads of ten guys with the same damn weapon. They were varied, with heavy weapons and special weapons in the basic unit. Devastators had mixed weapons, not just all one weapon type. But guess what, all my devastators are basically useless now. I can’t proxy up my plasma cannon guys as the inceptors for tourneys, I’ve got no equivalent to Phobos marines and forget aggressors. Half my army is dead. At least my tyranids still work. Kinda. All 2nd edition nids so I have no proxies for the crazy new shit so I’m stuck with inferior lists. But at least they didn’t remove fucking tyranid warriors and make some replacement that’s completely different in loadout. Guess I’m 3d printing shit just to get by. So yeah, I’m bitter. Are the primaris models amazing? Yes. But they fucked me over in ways that basically require me to sell my entire space Marine army.
Black Templars would never refuse gifts from the god emperor. Primaris are nothing but an improvement on the older sculpts. I'm not a fan of the Mk IV helmets but I can deal with it. The gravis versions look better. And the lore has been ruined since Matt Ward made his list of power fantasy self inserts canon.
...I am probably in the minority here Old Man, but I think the Primaris have a spot in 40K as a successful combination of Astartes & Thunder Warriors. Cawl's memory banks would have the data to create the Thunder Warriors, & Guiliman had likely given him what he needed to replicate Astartes successfully 10,000 years earlier. By themselves they're still vulnerable, since they lack the combat experience of the Astartes, but as it's possible for veteran Astartes to cross the Rubicon & become Primaris themselves the limitation can be gradually overcome. Despite Cawl's brilliance, I can also see flaws gradually emerging over time. ...The biggest problem I see with them is the age-old question of 'What are the other factions going to get in order to offset this element?"---with all that entails!
Because at the end of the day, it's a blatant 'fuck you, buy our new shit' to what came before and fans of it. They now have entire squads outfitted with superior plasma weaponry when such firearms have always been powerful but dangerous weapons. The armour designs are less blocky and more sleek, robbing them of the unique Astartes feel and instead turning them into generic Sci-Fi space marines. Primaris are better in every way with no drawbacks. Bigger, faster, stronger, this would be acceptable if it was a double-edged sword, if it was a low chance of success, psychological issues or lowered lifespan, but no, it's just a straight upgrade from what came before, making them the best there ever was. And screw that noise, there's nothing interesting about it, it's why Ciaphas Cain will forever be a more interesting character than any Space Cur or non-Calgar/Titus Smurf.
Not gonna lie, besides the money related stuff and the fact it's yet another space marine thing and not xenos, this complaint seems kind of meh, space marines got an upgrade, woopty-fuckin-doo, it doesn't change much and they look very similar, and are definitely not "generic Sci-Fi space marines" since the 40k style is pretty damn recognizable, they're sleeker but are unmistakably Astartes.
@genericscottishchannel1603Eh, Old Man needs money more than the average popular RUclipsr, it's probable that it's more about supporting him then getting extra content.
I've been aware of 40K for decades but I didn't fall into the hobby until (late 8th edition) 2 years after Primaris were introduced. I really don't care about die hards and their first born preferences. The future is now old men.
As someone who's played 40k since the mid 90's, and watched pretty much every major GW marketing catastrophe and dick move, I frankly never understood why Primaris were hated so much, because it's really obvious why they were made, and no it's not a cashgrab (not any more than any other new model because every model is meant to generate cash, that's the point), it's not that GW wanted to phase out the old models and make everyone buy new ones because if they wanted to do that they would have simply updated their tourney rules so that only the new space marine models counted due to basing and line of site rules for their height. No the reason GW made the primaris a new thing rather than simply saying they were just new models for space marines (which they actually match the scaling firstborn should have vs other human models) is that the old proportions were wrong and the old models and their proportions don't stand up to GW's current standard of quality, they were trying to AVOID MAKING EVERYONE BUY ALL NEW MODELS, because they knew that wouldn't go over well. So they made a plan to phase them in, to let people get used to them and still use their old models alongside them FOR MULTIPLE EDITIONS. People mad about not getting new xenos models especially eldar, are half valid, because to be brutally honest space marines sell, and pretty much everything else is produced at a loss so that all the space marine players have something other than space marines to fight, every xeno is a loss leader, if that weren't true they'd get models. Edit, also half the time they make new eldar models the new ones managed to look worse, and they should just upscale the falcon rather than make a new one because it's lines are already perfect.
I don’t mind that Cawl managed to improve upon the work, given it took him millennia. Could be misremembering that though. Also, iirc the Black Templars were persuaded by Custodian envoys, though that might've been a different group of belligerents. Also, some of the Crusade fleets did apparently purge them later anyway? (Or maybe I'm thinking of the Dark Angels, though they totally did that too.)
Of course, if GW really wanted to just introduce change and give the Imperium a needed boost to keep up with the rising tide of shit in the galaxy, there was a ready-made solution in the lore. Discover a damned STC. Maybe even one that was like a shittier version of the Van Saar's STC, so it provides a more extensive library but isn’t quite as potent as a functional one. Then we could see a sweeping rollout of tech upgrades for ALL the Imperial factions. That upgrade would naturally trickle down to the Orks (and Chaos), who would have shinier loot. The Eldar would be forced to deploy even more potent Wargear of their own to keep up (maybe sourced from a Craftworld that had been lost in the Webway sometime before or just after the Fall, so they have access to some of the Good Shit). The Tau would continue advancing their tech as normal. The Tyranids would continue to adapt because that's their shtick, and so on.
I'm not inherently opposed to Primaris, but the "Rediscovered STC Library" route would have justified overhauls en masse for the entire Imperium at minimum. We coulda had new elite regiments of power-armored Guardsmen with plasma swords and volkite death rays. And one must tremble at the horrors the Sisters could have devised with new shiny shit on hand... The least of which could be installing some Butcher's Nails combined with enhanced (radical) augmentations as an alternative to a penitent engine. Scoop up a bunch of "irredeemables" and turn them into mass-produced (pseudo) Eversor Assassins driven into religious fury via modified Nails inflicting endless agony so long as they are not slaughtering "the faithless."
Waiting for a single added sister of silence model lol - (1 century later)
Maybe we’ll get them sometime in the next millennium 😞
I'll just believe Cawl took over the 'new marines project' left behind by Corax, which improved the the emperor (and some tech priest) himself
For me the problems with Primaris are:
1. Lore out of the ass. Like, come on, couldn't they at least link Cawl to Forbidden Founding? Also, how did he manage to do all this without being called Heretic?
2. Lack of customisation. How with for example Tactical Squad we really only had like two pairs of helmets 1 backpack that were the copies of themselves while the rest of the bits had something unique about them, while with Intercessors the models are really only different by poses???
3. Lack of character. Hounds of Morkai are just Reivers with SW upggrade sprue! Just as Death Company Intercessors!
4. Downgrading of old units. Sanguinary Guard. Should I add more?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
... Maybe that their death masks look more like Vulcan's head rather than Sanguinus's head imho
I mean they did one better and linked Cawl directly to emperor by emperor giving him directions on how to and that he should improve upon astartes in the past into a techpriest that would be assimilated into Cawl.... He even called the called said techpriest cawl and he responded "but my name is..." and emperor responded "for now".
I will always love the old firstborn, but I have grown to accept the primaris, for in my mind to separate them, to divide them into categories of firstborn and Primaris forever leaves a divide in the fandom, and makes us forget that they are all Space Marines, just as we are all Warhammer fans.
Is this the first video of Mr Bones 40K that you have watched boss? Because this guy is entertaining, relaxing and informative all in one. Pretty awesome channel
My problem with the Primaris marines is they are to space marines what the battlemaster is to warior. We heared you like spacemarines, so we put more space marine in you'r space marine.
Trazyn Is probably making his own space marine Legion With the DNA of fulgrim Just for fun And future use In probably upgrading their armor With necron technology
Trazyn: Till the God emperor rises I will have to suffice
(Trazyn Is truly The blood ravens Primarch )
I would like to point out that a crusade of black templars did kill their primaris. And a custodian bring them, which is accurate.
I despise Primaries. They killed everything unique about Space Marines, invalidated all my minis, and made squads boring as fuck. Space marines were never just squads of ten guys with the same damn weapon. They were varied, with heavy weapons and special weapons in the basic unit. Devastators had mixed weapons, not just all one weapon type. But guess what, all my devastators are basically useless now. I can’t proxy up my plasma cannon guys as the inceptors for tourneys, I’ve got no equivalent to Phobos marines and forget aggressors. Half my army is dead.
At least my tyranids still work. Kinda. All 2nd edition nids so I have no proxies for the crazy new shit so I’m stuck with inferior lists. But at least they didn’t remove fucking tyranid warriors and make some replacement that’s completely different in loadout. Guess I’m 3d printing shit just to get by.
So yeah, I’m bitter. Are the primaris models amazing? Yes. But they fucked me over in ways that basically require me to sell my entire space Marine army.
So I either sell off a ton of rogue trader minis I’ve had forever or only play 8th edition from now on. Thanks GW.
I wish GW would show more love and support for Xenos factions.
so, they couldnt just upscale the existing model range?
Black Templars would never refuse gifts from the god emperor.
Primaris are nothing but an improvement on the older sculpts. I'm not a fan of the Mk IV helmets but I can deal with it. The gravis versions look better.
And the lore has been ruined since Matt Ward made his list of power fantasy self inserts canon.
...I am probably in the minority here Old Man, but I think the Primaris have a spot in 40K as a successful combination of Astartes & Thunder Warriors. Cawl's memory banks would have the data to create the Thunder Warriors, & Guiliman had likely given him what he needed to replicate Astartes successfully 10,000 years earlier. By themselves they're still vulnerable, since they lack the combat experience of the Astartes, but as it's possible for veteran Astartes to cross the Rubicon & become Primaris themselves the limitation can be gradually overcome. Despite Cawl's brilliance, I can also see flaws gradually emerging over time.
...The biggest problem I see with them is the age-old question of 'What are the other factions going to get in order to offset this element?"---with all that entails!
Because at the end of the day, it's a blatant 'fuck you, buy our new shit' to what came before and fans of it.
They now have entire squads outfitted with superior plasma weaponry when such firearms have always been powerful but dangerous weapons.
The armour designs are less blocky and more sleek, robbing them of the unique Astartes feel and instead turning them into generic Sci-Fi space marines.
Primaris are better in every way with no drawbacks. Bigger, faster, stronger, this would be acceptable if it was a double-edged sword, if it was a low chance of success, psychological issues or lowered lifespan, but no, it's just a straight upgrade from what came before, making them the best there ever was. And screw that noise, there's nothing interesting about it, it's why Ciaphas Cain will forever be a more interesting character than any Space Cur or non-Calgar/Titus Smurf.
says the guy who paid to see this early
Not gonna lie, besides the money related stuff and the fact it's yet another space marine thing and not xenos, this complaint seems kind of meh, space marines got an upgrade, woopty-fuckin-doo, it doesn't change much and they look very similar, and are definitely not "generic Sci-Fi space marines" since the 40k style is pretty damn recognizable, they're sleeker but are unmistakably Astartes.
@genericscottishchannel1603Eh, Old Man needs money more than the average popular RUclipsr, it's probable that it's more about supporting him then getting extra content.
Ciaphas K-nine 😂🤣😂!!!
HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!
I've been aware of 40K for decades but I didn't fall into the hobby until (late 8th edition) 2 years after Primaris were introduced. I really don't care about die hards and their first born preferences. The future is now old men.
As someone who's played 40k since the mid 90's, and watched pretty much every major GW marketing catastrophe and dick move, I frankly never understood why Primaris were hated so much, because it's really obvious why they were made, and no it's not a cashgrab (not any more than any other new model because every model is meant to generate cash, that's the point), it's not that GW wanted to phase out the old models and make everyone buy new ones because if they wanted to do that they would have simply updated their tourney rules so that only the new space marine models counted due to basing and line of site rules for their height. No the reason GW made the primaris a new thing rather than simply saying they were just new models for space marines (which they actually match the scaling firstborn should have vs other human models) is that the old proportions were wrong and the old models and their proportions don't stand up to GW's current standard of quality, they were trying to AVOID MAKING EVERYONE BUY ALL NEW MODELS, because they knew that wouldn't go over well. So they made a plan to phase them in, to let people get used to them and still use their old models alongside them FOR MULTIPLE EDITIONS.
People mad about not getting new xenos models especially eldar, are half valid, because to be brutally honest space marines sell, and pretty much everything else is produced at a loss so that all the space marine players have something other than space marines to fight, every xeno is a loss leader, if that weren't true they'd get models. Edit, also half the time they make new eldar models the new ones managed to look worse, and they should just upscale the falcon rather than make a new one because it's lines are already perfect.