I love the idea of weaving its soooo much fun and different i hope they tune it right and lean into it more and make use of others forms like turning bear into a def for feral turn cat into a dps buff for guardian moonkin or cat for dps for resto that way you arent just in one form and the rest useless Bearweaving! i really hope they make it work i want it! Also catweaving for bear! yes please lol
Hey fellow feral student of the claw here, beginning the video and already loving the analysis from a different perspective. I had similar thoughts to you when it came to these new hero talents and even made a video but I'm nowhere near your level of knowledge and theorycrafting. The first conclusion I came to was huge opportunity to start taking incarn over convoke. Many of these talents directly buff the builders and with the last node buffing berserk, the lengthened berserk window via incarn sets up for higher MA potential. Though thinking a lot about it since incarn is so long, worrying about MA procs overriding bleeds seems like an issue but something that will just have to happen since it'll most likely be optimal to ignore overrides and just send it during incarn windows. Anyways onwards to watching the rest of your analysis, keep up the great work.
Hey mate I just watched your recent video, I wouldn't take my Veinripper nod in this video too seriously btw it was just a throwaway mention. Also I believe hero talents are supposed to be 25% of your throughput IIRC. And yeah you will overwrite the Massive Attack bleed at times, I think it may just be one of those things you try space out a bit if when you can / when you need to pool and so on, and otherwise try spend energy after using each proc. Just little things like that, hopefully anyway. I doubt we'll be perpetually min maxing the bleed because sometimes we won't even be able to build to 5CP again before it expires anyway, and similarly sometimes we will have too much energy and need to press it again otherwise overcap. Also I wouldn't expect us to drop Apex though with this tree but we'll see. As for Incarn yeah we will surely overwrite procs inside of it, it's only natural, but I think you will have potential to try mitigate this and prioritise spending at times too as I noted in this vid e.g. using Rake or using a proc as an opportunity to regain some energy and let combo points trickle.
Hey man, I love the way you think. These are very interesting videos for understanding what's going on with the mechanics. Do you have any advice considering the core philosophy of Feral or anything you know in-depth that could help me to decide with confidence whether to main Feral or Enh?
Thanks mate. Feral is slower paced, lower APM (actions per minute) with a focus on DOTs, you aren't pushing buttons as fast as Enhance but you're instead spinning plates or rather managing DOTs and deciding how to best use your energy and combo points, how to try squeeze bites between Rip and so on. It's more methodical and calculated, and easier on the hands too. Spec is naturally quite fast in terms of mobility, especially compared to Enhance, and probably better defensively too actually but Enhance at least has Ankh. Enhance is very fast-paced 'whack-a-mole' where you're regularly pushing buttons, whichever the strongest one is that's off CD, while dumping maelstrom. It's probably the best designed of these 'priority' type melee specs (Fury, Ret etc) imo. Always desirable to have one in raid because of Windfury totem too. Both have very good talent trees which change up playstyle based on talents you play, probably more significantly for Enhance, but I think Enhance seems to get locked into certain builds more while Feral has generally had more freedom to customise talents and preferences this xpac. It really comes down to whether you like DOT specs, and even multi-dotting. There's not many DOT specs in the game but it's unique playstyle and rewarding, but not necessarily for everyone.
@@cheesey7395 Thanks, I appreciate that! I will watch your Wildstalker video next (in case you talk about the following there), but as you mention the bleed playstyle - do you think Feral will or already has bleeds as a significant part of their damage? I liked it when Feral could really set up bleeds in Shadowlands but in DF it devolved into bites with low DoT damage it seems.
@@tworadon The current tier set makes Bite a very high portion of damage but they're changing some things like energy and so on so bleeds should be a fair bit stronger next xpac. Also they made some Wildstalker changes today so that vid is likely outdated now, but I'll record something new soon.
Is Empowered Shifting another keybind though? I personally have FR keybound outside of my shifting bars so it'll be the same regardless of form UNLESS it's a whole different ability and you have two on your bars.
For the vast majority I would assume yes, I can't imagine many people aren't putting Bear abilities as Feral on their main shapeshift bar. Ultimately they'd just losing binds by not utilising shapeshift-specific binds. Maybe not an issue for you specifically if you're like me and comfortable with extra binds, but in general for the broader playerbase to minimise binds as Druid it's highly recommended to use actionbarpaging(shapeshift binds) + help/harm macros so you can double up binds like Rebirth or Dispel or whatever with rotational abilities if cast on an ally.
I don’t understand your analysis of RF. Doesn’t the MA proc just make RF useless? Additionally, is a double damage mangle or swipe worth the shifting GCDs? You could be fitting 3 cat GCDs in the time it took you to get out a bear attack. Not to mention losing TF if poorly timed.
It is assumed all nodes related to Bite would work with MA, so RF would also proc from MA. Else RF would lose significant value with this tree if not the case. I'd say 99% chance RF works with MA. As for the Bearweave stuff, these numbers (for any node really) aren't necessarily final or anything, it's just a preview after all and I would expect that 100% to just be a flat, first-choice placeholder value. But yeah as I mentioned it does seem weak in its current iteration but there's potential to make it good. Additionally I mentioned you might make decisions based on when it is optimal to shift, for example shifting when Tiger's Fury has fallen off.
@@cheesey7395 I appreciate your channel a lot, im a new feral who just started mythic raid a few weeks ago so im behind on my gear but im parsing around 95+ for ilvl. biggest things ive learned from you are bee management and holding my convoke a few seconds incase it procs another frenzy.
Aggravate Wounds is kind of cringe imo. You have at most 6 GCD's (6 sec dreadful wound DoT) to extend the duration by 0.4 sec each. At max we can use 15 GCD's to extend it by 6 seconds? Convoke is the only way to get 15 GCD's within a 6 GCD window lmao. Hopefully we don't hold convoke until a dreadful wound proc or anything weird (doubt it). Edit: Shit with all the energy generation nerfs too, we will barely fill 6 gcd's back to back, 3 gcd's for BT is rough sometimes.
Hello Cheesey! Big Fan from the Dreamgrove Discord, you are such an inspiration for new feral players like myself!
❤ thank you Meteos my number one fan!
Possum scratching in the roof… very apt for a Druid of the Claw tree
😆 didn't even think about that. I have thrown some apple out the back hopefully he goes back to his possum box.
I love the idea of weaving its soooo much fun and different i hope they tune it right and lean into it more and make use of others forms like turning bear into a def for feral turn cat into a dps buff for guardian moonkin or cat for dps for resto that way you arent just in one form and the rest useless
Bearweaving! i really hope they make it work i want it!
Also catweaving for bear! yes please lol
Hey fellow feral student of the claw here, beginning the video and already loving the analysis from a different perspective. I had similar thoughts to you when it came to these new hero talents and even made a video but I'm nowhere near your level of knowledge and theorycrafting. The first conclusion I came to was huge opportunity to start taking incarn over convoke. Many of these talents directly buff the builders and with the last node buffing berserk, the lengthened berserk window via incarn sets up for higher MA potential. Though thinking a lot about it since incarn is so long, worrying about MA procs overriding bleeds seems like an issue but something that will just have to happen since it'll most likely be optimal to ignore overrides and just send it during incarn windows. Anyways onwards to watching the rest of your analysis, keep up the great work.
Hey mate I just watched your recent video, I wouldn't take my Veinripper nod in this video too seriously btw it was just a throwaway mention. Also I believe hero talents are supposed to be 25% of your throughput IIRC. And yeah you will overwrite the Massive Attack bleed at times, I think it may just be one of those things you try space out a bit if when you can / when you need to pool and so on, and otherwise try spend energy after using each proc. Just little things like that, hopefully anyway. I doubt we'll be perpetually min maxing the bleed because sometimes we won't even be able to build to 5CP again before it expires anyway, and similarly sometimes we will have too much energy and need to press it again otherwise overcap. Also I wouldn't expect us to drop Apex though with this tree but we'll see.
As for Incarn yeah we will surely overwrite procs inside of it, it's only natural, but I think you will have potential to try mitigate this and prioritise spending at times too as I noted in this vid e.g. using Rake or using a proc as an opportunity to regain some energy and let combo points trickle.
Hey man, I love the way you think. These are very interesting videos for understanding what's going on with the mechanics.
Do you have any advice considering the core philosophy of Feral or anything you know in-depth that could help me to decide with confidence whether to main Feral or Enh?
Thanks mate. Feral is slower paced, lower APM (actions per minute) with a focus on DOTs, you aren't pushing buttons as fast as Enhance but you're instead spinning plates or rather managing DOTs and deciding how to best use your energy and combo points, how to try squeeze bites between Rip and so on. It's more methodical and calculated, and easier on the hands too. Spec is naturally quite fast in terms of mobility, especially compared to Enhance, and probably better defensively too actually but Enhance at least has Ankh.
Enhance is very fast-paced 'whack-a-mole' where you're regularly pushing buttons, whichever the strongest one is that's off CD, while dumping maelstrom. It's probably the best designed of these 'priority' type melee specs (Fury, Ret etc) imo. Always desirable to have one in raid because of Windfury totem too.
Both have very good talent trees which change up playstyle based on talents you play, probably more significantly for Enhance, but I think Enhance seems to get locked into certain builds more while Feral has generally had more freedom to customise talents and preferences this xpac.
It really comes down to whether you like DOT specs, and even multi-dotting. There's not many DOT specs in the game but it's unique playstyle and rewarding, but not necessarily for everyone.
@@cheesey7395 Thanks, I appreciate that! I will watch your Wildstalker video next (in case you talk about the following there), but as you mention the bleed playstyle - do you think Feral will or already has bleeds as a significant part of their damage? I liked it when Feral could really set up bleeds in Shadowlands but in DF it devolved into bites with low DoT damage it seems.
@@tworadon The current tier set makes Bite a very high portion of damage but they're changing some things like energy and so on so bleeds should be a fair bit stronger next xpac. Also they made some Wildstalker changes today so that vid is likely outdated now, but I'll record something new soon.
respect
Is Empowered Shifting another keybind though? I personally have FR keybound outside of my shifting bars so it'll be the same regardless of form UNLESS it's a whole different ability and you have two on your bars.
For the vast majority I would assume yes, I can't imagine many people aren't putting Bear abilities as Feral on their main shapeshift bar. Ultimately they'd just losing binds by not utilising shapeshift-specific binds. Maybe not an issue for you specifically if you're like me and comfortable with extra binds, but in general for the broader playerbase to minimise binds as Druid it's highly recommended to use actionbarpaging(shapeshift binds) + help/harm macros so you can double up binds like Rebirth or Dispel or whatever with rotational abilities if cast on an ally.
I don’t understand your analysis of RF. Doesn’t the MA proc just make RF useless?
Additionally, is a double damage mangle or swipe worth the shifting GCDs? You could be fitting 3 cat GCDs in the time it took you to get out a bear attack. Not to mention losing TF if poorly timed.
It is assumed all nodes related to Bite would work with MA, so RF would also proc from MA. Else RF would lose significant value with this tree if not the case. I'd say 99% chance RF works with MA.
As for the Bearweave stuff, these numbers (for any node really) aren't necessarily final or anything, it's just a preview after all and I would expect that 100% to just be a flat, first-choice placeholder value. But yeah as I mentioned it does seem weak in its current iteration but there's potential to make it good. Additionally I mentioned you might make decisions based on when it is optimal to shift, for example shifting when Tiger's Fury has fallen off.
Now let us use incap roar in cat too :D
Haha, it's the price for the short 30 second CD I assume
@@cheesey7395 idk if u pvp at all but this is huge for us in pvp. the entire tree.
@@cheesey7395 I appreciate your channel a lot, im a new feral who just started mythic raid a few weeks ago so im behind on my gear but im parsing around 95+ for ilvl. biggest things ive learned from you are bee management and holding my convoke a few seconds incase it procs another frenzy.
@@SK-pi6cn I haven't pvped much as Feral this xpac because Feral has been so squishy, but I'm definitely keen to try this in pvp.
Aggravate Wounds is kind of cringe imo. You have at most 6 GCD's (6 sec dreadful wound DoT) to extend the duration by 0.4 sec each. At max we can use 15 GCD's to extend it by 6 seconds? Convoke is the only way to get 15 GCD's within a 6 GCD window lmao. Hopefully we don't hold convoke until a dreadful wound proc or anything weird (doubt it).
Edit: Shit with all the energy generation nerfs too, we will barely fill 6 gcd's back to back, 3 gcd's for BT is rough sometimes.
Yeah the extension needs to be higher than 0.4s