Why I'm embracing cheaper looking animation
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2023
- I talk about why I've been exploring limited and economic animation
=Full Official Video Courses=
The Complete Introduction to 2D Animation
Buy the complete introduction to 2D animation tutorial/video package:
gum.co/Introto2DComplete
===My mini classes on skillshare===
www.skillshare.com/en/classes...
www.skillshare.com/en/classes...
www.skillshare.com/en/classes...
www.skillshare.com/en/classes...
www.skillshare.com/en/classes...
==My Photoshop actions for auto-matte and toning==
gumroad.com/l/sKxSq
Main Website: www.tonikopantoja.com/
Twitter: / tonikopantoja
Instagram: / tonikopantoja
Online Store/Tutorials: gumroad.com/stringbing
Patreon Account: / stringbing
Kofi donations: ko-fi.com/tonikopantoja
Equipment I use:
Drawing Tablet: Wacom Cintiq 22HD: www.wacom.com/en/products/pen...
Software I use:
Storyboading - Storyboard Pro, Adobe Animate, Photoshop
Animation - TVPAINT, Adobe Flash/Animate CC, ToonBoom, Blender
Compositing - After Effects
Painting and Illustration - Photoshop, Clip Studio
Video Editing - Premiere
3D - BLENDER 
Кино
It's not about how many frames or how many lines or hiw many colors, it's how you use them, your animation direction, your expressivness, your storyboard. Look at Doobus goobus.
In my case it was because I had to force myself to tone things down to see what else was possible that eventually inspires the animation direction. It’s everything including how much frames or lines
Gesture over detail has literally been Disney mantra for like 60 plus years. It isn’t new struggle
@@HenbotIt’s new to everyone’s journey at some point. We all learn on our rhythm and by doing. Because it’s one thing to hear Disney say it, and another to process and actually make the change to our own habits and work.
Because people say meditation helps, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t take self accountability and to create a new habit in itself.
His self reflection is worth it because it’s his journey. It’s easy for us to watch and quickly find a solution, but for him it’s way harder not to tunnel vision on his own work and not see all right away. ❤
It’s not about those things, you’re right. It’s about drive, it’s about power
I've always been fascinated by how Japanese animators can convey so much movement and emotion with just a few drawings.
You should look into anime techniques, its style evolved from tight budgets and limited animation has always been part of it.
I recently did some LO work for a few anime productions. You are absolutely right because the pipeline they have set up is worth learning more than the visual style
@@TonikoPantoja you should watch OVAS from the 80's
You do realise Anime didn’t create animation? Disney and the 9 old men had rules all about that decades ago. Walt Stanchfield prime example who was all about gesture over detail. Nothing you saying anime doing was unsaid and not done for almost 90 years by the OG animators
@@Henbot I've never said anime create animation
Animation is a medium created "recently", about 100 years ago in the 1910-1920, there "were" previous analogue animation techniques but the animation as we know it was invented after the camera.
But animation took a couple of decades to develop and it was only on the 30s and 40s that the "OG" animators developed the principles of animation and some of the techniques we use until now and Disney develop their pipeline (with smooth animation 24 fps).
Anime appear in the 50-60 with tight television budgets and they had to adapt to the restrictions of frames and they develop many techniques to use animation on the cheap like reusing animation and moving only parts of the body (similar to what Hanna Barbera did in the west with the bgs loops)
I may be wrong about specific dates and stuff but I hope that clarifies a little what I was trying to say.
@@Henbotbrother you're arguing with a wall 😭
I feel you. I animate on threes and fives nowadays. I realized animation is more about expression of movements rather than mimicking motion to make it realistic. The older I got the more simple my art becomes. Every pose becomes more thoughtful. Also I take longer breaks between work.
Heyy can u please let me know how u learned animation?🙏
It's interesting to hear that someone on the complete opposite end of the spectrum (professional vs hobbyist) still struggles with a lot of the things I do. I was only able to start finishing projects after I got past the need to make them perfect and fully animated. Now, I actually make it a goal to use as few drawings as possible. A shot is only fully animated if there isn't any other way to communicate it or for effect. My desperate need to tell my stories is more important than making them eye candy. Otherwise, I'd still be quitting after the first thirty seconds like I used to for years.
Honestly, I've always preferred more sketchy looking animation and even illustrations to the more polished stuff. Animation that looks rough, choppy, sketchy just feel more grounded for me. Paintings tend to have a rough look at time too, and Idk. I just love the less polished look.
its prolly because it just feels more natural and human. for me when drawing i feel the most passionate when i start to ignore the perfections of every little detail and line
If "Take A Break" is a result of this decision, I'm 100% behind you 🙌 the storytelling in that short was definitely the highlight and easily elevated everything else.
This is also something i have been doing a lot of. Especially in the sense of using a lot less frames. I normally limit myself to 8 frames per second.
That's a good thing
In he-man behind the scenes they talk about how they had animation loop libraries, and if you wanted a new scene you had to animate it yourself roughly to get it approved. It meant alot off efficiency. But also the "new" animation scenes where often done with a lot of passion and re purposeful. Like him ripping a door off hinges became a staple for him throwing anything.
I've recently had a intrest in limited animation too. I like the concept of getting the point across while doing a bit less.
I actually really like the limited animation that they do in anime; not just because the visual styles are flashy and expressive, but because I can actually register what is happening with my eyeballs. A character standing still for a few seconds after hearing some news (good or bad) gives me plenty of time to process what I just heard. Plus, if you notice in Disney films, the animation actually Slows Down and becomes more still during sad scenes. Because having too many frames of characters flailing about in grief is weirdly comical for some reason. Way more solemn if a character is hanging their head heavily rather than kicking and screaming, y'know?
Another thing to consider is "revealing vs concealing".
Fully drawing expressions for every action and frame is not only more time-consuming but also gives away too much character intention that is sometimes best left up to interpretation.
I think this is a really huge lesson, especially after years of doing animation. Finding the joy again. It's easy to get caught up in what your work is "supposed to do" in regards to impressing people or getting more work, and I think that is important to push yourself to get better and do great work, but learning to have fun with it is equally important to avoid burning-out on it. Great video Toniko! 😊
Yoo
I've seen enough animations to know that the audience largely doesn't care about finish or style. if you have a great story or premise, people will love it. Story comes first.
Another option is having someone else help you with coloring, etc, to let you focus on other stuff
One thing to remember is that Hiao Miyazaki worked in animating television series first, and many of his earlier works are done in lower frame rates. There is no shame in it! Ghibli made it work and so can you!
Appreciate your videos, one thing you said that stuck with me is "live with your decisions", and it helped me to finish projects than trying to make it perfect
Depending on the viewer, this may be one of the most valuable videos you've put out, in terms of what they can learn and the decisions they make in their own work.
This took me decades to figure out. The thing I had to learn to do was to reduce the scale of what my finished piece was. Don't do a whole music video, do a video for a verse. Don't do a short, do a joke. I started thinking of what game devs are doing when they make a vertical slice of a game. Make a full, polished version of the smallest thing you can. As soon as I started doing that I made way more work, ended up with more stuff for my reel in six months than I'd had in the last year, and felt way more fulfilled now that all the ideas I've had rattling around in my brain finally had a place to go.
You are very productive, I do not know anyone who would be able to animate as much personal work as you are showing.
Yeah, I think working smarter, not harder, would help me a lot as well.
And ultimately, whether or not the animation is super polished is negligible as long as the concept and story are strong. The visuals are just the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.
Oh my god, I relate to this video so much! I’m glad you have found a way to figure things out
Glad you're in this phase of your journey. I just recently came into it, myself, and started to ask myself "Are you drawing comics because you enjoy it and want to tell a story or is it do you can show people how good you art?"
Sometimes, it's about getting the message out - not flexing.
Very into the stance you’re developing. I respect your path.
Thanks again dude! 🩵👍
This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while ever since I’ve been practicing my own 2.5D aesthetic with solid 3D shapes and Grease Pencil in Blender, especially with lowering the frame rate from 24 or 12 to just 5 fps! It gets that stop-motion-y look that I like, and helps compliment my other animations by using the same frame rate! I’m gonna be trying to move up to 10 frames instead of 5 so I can see how that works!
Really loving the shorter, "limited" stuff you've been posting lately 😍
I totally agree with you! This is something I have also learned along time.
Hey bro. I totally understand! Let's continue animating and having fun! :)
Look up KOJO TANNO.
His short films feel fully animated, finished, without the use of colours, clean lines or even sound effects and a low framerate.
Toniko, On this one I think you speak on behave of a lot of us man!...thank you!...btw, I got your animation course and really love it!
Very inspirational talk. Thanks.
No matter how “cheap” looking your animations are, your channel will always be my favorite animation channel because of how much I’ve learned about animating and art in general from you.
Excellent thoughts here.
I love all what I see and I want to learn more of detailed and complete animation from start to finish
Nice to see, keep it up mate!
I agree with the trust of your analysis!
"Less is more"
And quote of the year goes too...
Very well said!!!
I have the same ego problem with normal drawing. I tend to draw and define every boney landmark and muscle to show of my anatomical knowledge. This results in pretty much every character looking like a buff chiseled or anorexic man. I have to fight the urge to show of
Simple but proper line art is good for Frame to frame animation it's true I tried it's faster . Planning and executing it also takes time I understood
About Animation I have thought is wise to try not to "reinvent" the wheel. One of the diferences in animation drawing compared to other media is that it is better to always think in simplifying things, shapes when possible.
Great video! Toniko I was wondering if you could do a show about animation comunities? how to join them how to build a community? Is there something like project city, but for animators?
i like this format
I love 2d. The perfection to imperfection of it is beautiful.
I relate so much to this.
I go above and beyond to make my work ambitious only to just suffer health-wise because of it
Don’t worry about simpler animation being less good than frame heavy animation that you put all your effort into.
Recently did a couple small animations, one that was really simple and limited frames, and one that was slightly more polished and had way more frames and movements.
While I don’t regret what I learned working on the longer animation, the simpler animation still ended up more appealing to look at at the end of the day.
Sometimes putting in that effort to make things look more polished and smooth doesn’t actually make things more appealing, like how sometimes a joke is much funnier when drawn in mspaint vs painted in detail. So if working on simpler animations feels better, just do it. No shame.
Could you please do a tutorial on this style of hand drawn limited animation?
Hi I’ve always admired your work. I was wondering, Are you open for commissions?
i would be very grateful if you shared some of your tips for limited animation. You have experience. I can only think of smear frames and low fps but I don't know any other thing I can do to save time and effort, and what fps is low enough to make things easy while looking decent.
I feel like I’ve been holding myself back because I’ve always been afraid of my stuff not being impressive enough for other people which is so backwards. I wanna make stupid meme shorts just as much as I wanna make fully animated epic proof of concept works or even like a motion comic or something lol. Lot of ego checks needed haha.
I get everything you said.
while limited animation looks "cheap" because of it's association with hannabarbera I think it's a very important tool for every animator to utilize to save your effort and time for the more important scenes in your work
I feel as though and this is coming from someone who’s still in animation school so take it with a grain of salt but like when studying other peoples work mostly things like Sakuga in anime their animations are technically limited animated on 2’s and 3’s but the animation still looks absolutely insane. I don’t think that animating on 1s is what gives things polish it’s literally just an insane understand of how something can potentially move not even how it should move
Have you used puppet animation for 2D for time saving?
Since the animation process can be laborious and sometimes exhausting, here's hoping that Procreate Dreams will help.
People like the idea of the content.. and lower quality stuff let's them see the same stuff animators envision.
Just going to reccomend Hey Duggie for some quality cheap animation with lots of style - simple and geometric with tons of visual jokes. I think it will soon replace Bluey as the program for todlers that everyone watches.
Detail taking over is a big obstacle but the other obstacle is Cuts.
Film Cuts are total nightmare for 2D animation. It is also why Katsuhiro Otomo hated second half of AKIRA because he tries doing so many cuts that it overran their budget and staff. Cuts in film or in stories don’t work in 2d animation because you don’t have a set or sequence from multiple angles you have to draw ✍️ all the sequences and angles. It why 3d been crawling into replacing 2d and they doing hybrids now
one of my biggest worries is if I focus too hard on one piece of the page- will it make the surrounding details look cheaper over all?
most times, yes :/
so this is a solid piece of self reflection..
Netflix needs you.
Why don't you hire a team to help you?
I think you're vastly overestimating how much money the average independent animator makes lol.
"Oh but what about ad revenue from RUclips?" Again, LOL.
@@lauramaue It can be done
Did you never read Disney Animation: The Illusion of Life or anything to do with Walt Stanchfield? They would have answered this for you decades ago.
It’s not new the struggle of detail and production and they settled on gesture over detail. True though the ego part you need to knock away
People forget the best animated films are made by teams because doing on your own burns you out
One more thing that I use to make animation on 15 frame per sec but still but charecter is not being smooth
It’s crazy but as an artist when u add the hours, love and details when ppl see it they like ‘meh…’ but when u create something fast and simple they love it. Very strange.
What's the grease pencil animation in which the dog is beating the other dogs?
Sir,i wanna start with 2d animation in pc, should i start with blender?
I guess it depends on what you want to do
I would say cleaner not cheaper
👍👍👏👏
Here's a creative life motto:
every artist is full of sh*t ideas and works. The sooner you churn them out, the more you will feel relieved and less constipated ✅️
Is it necessary to animate whole body for showing only movement of any body part or while showing expressions. Please tell me I am trying to make animation smooth but it is not what should I do for make my character fluid .
Smooth animation comes from how many frames. However if you have really strong posing you can hold your animation longer and do less frames. Try animating on 4s work strong extremes and keys . Then only use breakdowns. See how that looks without worrying about in betweens
@@kossemoore3342 yeah bro
If you're going for something more fluid, then animating expression changing should affect the whole body... but, look at old Scooby Doo. That's why all the characters have such a division between their necks and their bodies. They could just animate the head. It doesn't look amazing, but is charming for the genre!
limited animation?
If your working alone, I don't see another way honestly, also what's wrong with the animation just in black/white blue?
I have long had the opinion that western animators have an unhealthy obsession with fluid movement (high frame rate) in animation. I think a lot of it comes from growing up on Disney animations and the best anime. I think it’s better to focus on how the animation is conveying the story, and to change frame rate relative to the needs of the scene. Nothing against beautiful animation on 1s, but trying to do that all the time is both expensive and time consuming.
wise man once said it doesnt have to be pretty just functional
I don’t know if you’re familiar with Pokemon, but there was a shift in the animation style when the series went to the Sun and Moon arc.
A lot of people said the animation looked ‘cheaper’ because characters weren’t quite as on model, but it was a lot more expressive, so ultimately people loved it way more.
I think that’s kinda the takeaway. Expressive animation is more important than clean animation, IMO.
The Naruto fight against Pain is also a great example. If you look at any given frame, it looks ridiculous, but in motion it’s frenetic and expressive and great.
I mean it worked with Japan so.
Well... finished projects are always better than ambitious ones.
Don't worry, Miyazaki is a grump too.
This is why I can’t do storyboards.. as soon as I start drawing, since it’s meant to be messy, I immediately don’t like it and scrap the whole idea.
why embracing cheaper animation??
1 simple answer... commissions...
most of them just wants to change stuffs like the whole script or add characters at later stages of animation...
okay cool, so what's your current animation goal then? Or have you basically fallen back on selling the classes + youtubing ?
it depends, shadows are very expenssive but if anime pulls as much of those by limiting frame number and it looks less cheap if u pause, western cartoons nowadays almost never use shadows but the animation is cheep too and the end result screams of cost cuts, it can look fine on cartoony show like the owl house, but 2000's inspired action shows with more anime/realistic proportioned people like netflix's She-ra suffer greatly from it, flatness doesn't suit them much especially if like she-ra the animation quality isalready mid
Controversial topic especially with AI taking people's certain jobs everywhere now.
And franckly putting to much efforts on the "visual" instead of the script is a HUGE problem we see all the time. Thx
I Accidentally hit the dislike button
Do you have a discord?
Bro your animation is good but your drawing skills need to get better , the animation always look like disproportionate, and the proportion of your characters are all over the place when playing.
I hope you take this the right way
It's kinda weird since he could also learn poses and iconic silhouettes to get movements right even without a lot of frames or good proportions. I think he needs to watch a lot of anime or Cheap Japanese works to see how the Japanese master movement with so few frames.
@@asscheeks3212 yes , from what i can see he mainly needs to work on proportions and anatomy . He is a good animator but his animation lacks of understanding of drawing fundamentals thats why it looks weird compare to more amateur animators
But yeah totally aggre
What on earth are you guys on about? His anatomy is great. By disproportionate, do you mean he exaggerates or simplifies proportions sometimes? Because you're supposed to do that in animation. Or do you mean sometimes the anatomy in one frame is slightly off? That's also fine in animation, it's okay if one frame is off as long as the animation itself when played looks proportionate on average.
@sandersystreams123 you're spot on, I think the commenter is a foreigner since his language seems off. Though I do think you don't need too many frames to master fluid motion.
@@sandersystreams123 no bro , his anatomy is not right , and being cartoony is not an excuse .
You can tell by his insta he still need to develop his drawing skills .
Some of his animations especially on facial expressions the proportions are all over the place , compared to other amateur animators .
Thats not supposed to happened.