I think the reason that Dark Souls' lore is beloved by so many because it speaks to the nature of things. Even if people don't understand it to the point of articulating it, everyone who loves the story understands something important is being said.
And we would burn it all up for another second with those we love. It's this central theme of rot and the characters within struggling against this that made me fall for so many tragic heroes who seeing a world of rot gave everything to delay that rot. Like Gwynn, a true hero, a beautiful true god. Vain, flawed and eventually consumed completely to keep the fire alive. He is so well written for his role showing each stage of that journey from his younger heroic (where he was still ruthless) saga to his end as a desperate blackguard doing everything and using anyone to keep what he had made. It is a story that when I look at my daughter resonates so completely with me. We would do anything to maintain this age of fire. Then there are symbols like Artorias. Heroes that were doomed and knew it but went anyway. Or the ivory king who found himself in a futile failing land and seeing this stood up and made it something more even if just for a time and through his choice to make things better redeemed a piece of the dark who in the end was the only thing holding back chaos till a true monarch came. Its this theme of rot, its inevitability, and the heroic characters that stood inspite of the futility that first made me fall for these games. I knew when i first played them that Miyazaki was a man who could see the divinity in this apparently godless doomed existence
Man! The way that From Software games seamlessly explore both the concepts of "decay/all things fade" and "never give up" is astounding. They are two concepts that can often be mistaken as at odds with each other. As a student of psychology, I absolutely love it because it's so applicable to life. For example, I often long for the days of my childhood as, all things considered, it was a blessed childhood. However, as much as I'd like to go back, the challenge and joy of being a father outweighs it all. Don't anyone tell me that video games can't be deep and artistic!
My favorite part of DS3's lords not returning is that people usually just explain it off as "they refused their duty" but that really translates to "they did it before, and they didn't think it was worth it so they're not doing it again." Which is like, wow, either linking the fire just hurts THAT MUCH or the people who linked it before dont think that the world should continue to decay as it is.
I wonder whether they deny the fire for their own personal reasons, or that they see that the age of dark is coming and linking the fire will make no difference.
I especially love your take on the Dark Souls 3 DLC being a metaphor for the series end, coincidently I was playing through this content around the time you made the original videos on the topic and they really gave me a perspective to everything I was seeing and doing in those DLC. It's all around an amazing series of games but all things should come to an end before they stagnate and get ruined by the fans and/or company insisting to continue what has already given everything it has to offer. I'm incredibly happy that they made Elden Ring and not Dark Souls 4.
It has been said they actually started work on Elden Ring immediately after DS3 DLC was finished, with Sekiro being a side-project similar to DS2 during Bloodborne
let me just explain ofc. there are a literal boat load of references to every other souls game in this one, and a lot of the same exact themes used in every other game and quite literally the same characters used as well. so Im thinking that elden ring is interconnected with the rest of the souls games without being directly so. like how anor londo was in ds1 and then again in ds3. that is my hopes at least, because in truth I dont really like the fact that im just playing the same fromsoftware game for the 4th time. especially because it was marketed to seem like it was completely disconnected from the others.
@@kregman6928 the main lore and character are still different. And From Soft has an habit of including recurring character/theme/item and monster in each of their title. It's not a reason to think of elden ring as a dark soul 4. it's also important to understand that lore can't always be explained by gameplay. elden ring use the same stat system as darksoul for exemple, not because it's the same world, but because gameplay wise, it works and has been working for more than a decade. They refined a well crafted system over the years. I'm glad they didn't do a 180° and switch to something like elderscroll. You're still in a known territory gameplay wise, and it's help you focus on the new stuff, like the world and the lore while not having to relearn everything from scratch. Also From soft loves to play with a "certain continuity" between every one of their title, from kingsfield to demonsoul, to darksoul and bloodborn. You can check vaatividya "theory" on the relation between all these games even tho it's cherrypicking the good argument for the sake of it. My point is that, it's not because it seems familiar that elden ring is just the same as darksoul. Gameplay wise, it is. Lore wise, it adds enough to be worth of a new franchise.
Very few people actually analyze video games as a work of art. You're one of the very few people I see who actually look at games in the same way that a professor looks at The Grapes of Wrath and For Whom The Bell Tolls.
I really hope this video gets the views it deserves... I've also never seen anyone make this point about the series so fundamentally and it's really eye opening. I especially love how it covers not only the games but arguably the entire games industry and game production. I can imagine Far Cry 6 looking like a barren ashen land by this point but that won't stop the company from making a 7th game, they're gonna keep making more games despite the already present stagnation and I'm so glad this isn't the case for Dark Souls. Instead we'll be getting Elden Ring
@Yian Garuga I think the reason that Dark Souls' lore is beloved by so many because it speaks to the nature of things. Even if people don't understand it to the point of articulating it, everyone who loves the story understands something important is being said.
@@ratatoskr6324 Fully agreed. It's interesting that even without understanding the story the games are dear to so many. I never understood or even tried understanding the story of Dark Souls and Sekiro but they still became some of my favourite games and I think part of that is exactly because I didn't understand it. When one finishes these games for the first time there's that partial feeling of "wtf did I just play" and "there has to be more to this". And then it all becomes even better on later playthroughs when one does understand it. That being said I hope I don't fully understand Elden Ring when I finish it. I don't want Souls games to not confuse and hide information from me. I want them to lie to my face, confuse me and compel me to ponder if I should really take everything at face value
An interesting bit of lore is that the Unkindled were actually the 7th or 8th round of a "last resort" option, Ocelotte was likely meant to be a backup plan if Lothric refused to link the fire, had Ocieros not lost his mind, then the bell brought the 4 previous lords back, the Abyss Watchers, Aldrich, Yhorm, and Ludleth, the only lord who was willing to reprise his martyrdom, bit was not strong enough to do so on his own, and so with that plan failed, a new champion was selected to link the fire, Gundyr who arrived to his shrine to see his firekeeper cast to her death with a shrine consumed by dark, so an Unkindled was chosen, not our own, but El Friede was the one chosen to link the fire, however she abandoned her mission and sought home and hearth in the painting, her sister would follow this want to end the age of fire in a different way, Yuria seeking an undead lord to lead an age of dark, which she potentially finds in the Ashen One, our Unkindled, who acted as the very final chance to link the fire and begin the cycle anew, I may not have the time line quite correct but altogether there were dozens of attempts at undoing the plans of Lothric and Lorian to bring about a new age, and depending on your actions, it may have been for nought
It's difficult to argue against Ariandel being a reflection of Dark Souls when Friede is literally another player character; Another Ashen One. She found the painting and loved it too much.
Friede represents those players who wish to preserve the age of fire whereas the dark lord player snatches the fire for the hollow to lead into an age of progress.
@@RedCrowJXU but isn't Friede a sister of the Sable Church? Who's entire goal is to find the Lord of hollows. Also is she really an Ashen one? Since she's a sister of the Sable Church it seems like she's been around since well before the bell tolled to awake the ashen ones
@@sharmgidly3497 She left the Sable church to go into the Painted World of Ariandel. Leadership was transferred over to Yuria and Orianna. Friede represents this inability to move into the future in the painting just like Gywn outside is unable to move past his Age of Fire.
Excellent video essay. This is the kind of thing I've always struggled to find in Dark Souls content; someone trying to make some sense of what the games are about, rather than what happens in the games. I'd like to see more persuasive work from you, great work.
Yeah, I don't really care so much that "goober the grandiose odour emitter" or whatever choked on the spittle of a gumnut tree 1000 years ago in the story (though that could still be interesting)
I agree SO much. I wish people would look for other content creators like this who do more than very surface level lore connecting....yes I am throwing shade.
All miyazakis games talk about "the dark night of the soul" or "mortal journey" of man beating the emotional brain, old self dying and the awakening of the new self. I have made a movie/analysis about bloodborne displaying the symbolism hidden in visuals and storytelling.
I find Bloodborne fascinating in this context, as it features a multitude of characters all trying to find the right way to progress, evolve, and change. In a sense it almost seems to represent the opposite end of the spectrum. But maybe it’s actually showing the folly of trying to copy the one-time magic of a work, only to defile its image.
Makes sense, from what little I understand of Bloodborne. Everyone was trying to make their own version of the Great Ones, but pretty much all of them came out terribly. Just like a lot of people hopped on the Soulslike wagon and only created lesser copies.
@@briggy4359 No, it's very clearly H.P. Lovecraft mythos lore taking place in a Victorian 'mage/blood-punk' setting. Blatantly so in enemy names and design. Not saying literally everything is Lovecraft inspired, but the idea of studying the cosmos (note: not necessarily outer space as modern people think of it) to gain eldritch knowledge and simultaneously being driven mad by the revelations of such insights gained from it is pretty much the trope wheelhouse of Lovecraft. The initial 'great one' (another Lovecraft term for eldritch gods) people interacted with was found in the fishing village and human/eldritch hybrids were made from consuming the flesh of eldritch beings who do not lose their ethereal being when 'killed'. It's very on the nose in this regard. The events themselves being presented as all 'being a dream' as well. Lovecraft said dreams were his best inspiration and a good device to use to frame stories about such things. In fact, mythos themes permeate much of From's games since Demon's Souls. A sunken 'fallen city' is usually prominent and featured (sometimes literally fallen from the stars as in Elden Ring), as are being that are mutations of squid/aquatic creatures (eldritch cosmic beings) and man. The idea of madness coming from eldritch truth obscured to the currently existing is also featured. It's quite an opposition to Nietzche. More like "god is dead, and we killed him to take his place, but are as ignorant as a child playing with their father's gun". Nietzsche envisioned no gods, no masters, only the 'overman' becoming an enlightened entity eventually. I realize the passage alone seems to be giving the same sentiment, but his overall philosophy does not. Hierarchy and rule over the weak by those with their own inequity is definitely still prominent in the endings of Soul's games. Equality comes from being equally brought down, not up such as the darkness ending where you also kill the fire keeper in ds3 or refuse to take the throne in ds2 after also killing the scholar. Taking the new life as an infant cosmic being ending in Bloodborne implies no true ascent or evolution of man to me, only that you are the new "moon presence" in the nightmare that never truly ends. Not discovering the method to fight it but defeating Gherman is you taking his place and accepting your gods, and accepting Gherman's demand is obeying your master.
There is a lore idea in Bloodborne that Beast Howl uses the humans own vocal cords, and the Church fears this. Micolash in particular. The Church running from the "beastly idiocy".
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 there's also some hunter NPCs who are 'awakened' from the dream. the one in the lower town with the machine gun says the beasts are not what they seem and the true beasts are the church
Hey, you finally did it! To be honest, no matter how much digging I find with lore videos, I rarely find any videos that cover the symbolism as well as you do. The extent is usually just Fire, Dark, and occasionally the Deep. That's about it, and even then it's just at a cursory, words as written and/or highly opinionated conjecture. So with that said, I'm quite excited and curious to see what this video has to provide.
I'm glad that you are not skipping on DS2 lore. It is honestly extremely in depth and suprisingly important in the saga but creators often times ignore it due to their personal disdain.
It's really not. Especially the parts about futility of trying to change anything and constantly re-emerging lord souls. Those just not what Dark Souls is about. The only real way to use DS2 lore is to take the most coherent parts of it and ignore the rest.
I think the main reason people, at least lore wise, tend to ignore DS2 is because it's all over the place. For most of the game, or the whole game if you're playing the original version, linking the Fire is not only the best option, it's your ONLY option. It goes so far to tell you that liking the Fire is so important, so *correct* , that not doing that isn't even an option. Only if you play the Scholar of the First Sin are you introduced to the ideas of Aldia, who's primary goal is to end the Age of Fire, to put an end to the established order, no matter how comfortable it is, so that humanity can see the truth and become what they were always destined to be. Yet even then, your character isn't even considering the idea unless they meet Aldia in every spot you can in game. You botch the progression once and you HAVE to Link the Fire. So, which message are we supposed to get? What are we supposed to choose, linking the Fire, to perpetuate the Age of Fire, end the Undead Curse and perhaps find out "the truth?" Or do we listen to a dubious character, someone who is repeatedly shown to not be reliable? Do we, as Aldia would want us to, end the Fire and venture unto the unknown, accepting not what humanity wants, but what it needs? Like I said, it's real confusing, at least to me. Though I do prefer the "leave the Throne" ending. But that's because I have a massive boner for the type of character that's "destined for greatness" but cares more to do the RIGHT thing, not what they're told to do. Which is why I like the Linking ending to DS1. Kaathe's all like "hurr durr lemt the Flame die and bemcome lormd of Darmk" and I'm all like "nooo it'll be cooler if I light myself on Fire and nobody ever remembers me trust me it's because it's the right thing to do". As one can guess, I also prefer the End of Fire ending for DS3, though for deeper reasons than that. I'd like to add, about the DS1 endings. I have a differing opinion on which one is the easy / hard one to make. A lot of people think, as far as I know, that the Link the Fire ending is easy, while the Dark Lord ending is the one you have to work for, ergo the "right" one. I call bullshit. You're being controlled either way, but the Dark Lord ending does to your character what it doubtlessly does to the player as well: you hear the title, you hear the lore, and you think "I will be the hero! Not the one they want, but the one they need!" While, in truth, Kaathe is most likely just using you for his own agenda. Oh, of course, Linking the Flame is exactly doing what the Gods want you to so they can stay sitting in their comfy chairs and ruling over the poor weak humans that are left. Both choices are neither wrong not right, as both, I believe, lead to the same situation in DS3, assuming the Dark Lord ending doesn't actually forever extinguish the Flame. I just want to argue that the character you control is massively cooler if you pick the Link the Fire ending. There he/she is, nameless, cursed and forgotten by history, setting themself aflame, not really sure if what they're doing is *really* correct, but it's not like they'll be able to check. They're perpetuating the cicle not for the Gods, but for the little guys suffering from all this. It's the right thing to do, most of all because it enables the Ashen One in DS3 to choose the "End of Fire" ending, which is not only thematically the correct choice, but also from a lore perspective; after all, *that's it* . No more Dark Souls. This is the *end* Sorry for the rant. I just got mega inspired by Ratatoskr's masterpiece of a video. I swear, this guy...
@@YTDariuS-my6dg You are fundamentally mistaken or confused about a few things. 1. I think the point of DS1 (both endings) is that you're a witless, ignorant pawn who dies for things outside your own sphere of knowledge. You were never given a choice, not really. You were sold a false narrative as some "chosen one" when you were just one of many to come. A means to an end. If you had not linked the flame in DS1 then the bells would simply ring once more. The flame was still strong then. 2. DS2 SoTFS has by far the most insightful characters in the lore. Aldia saw the ruse of DS1 for what it was and sought the truth rather than comfortable ignorance. We really didn't know what Aldia did until the end of the Ringed City. He understood the true nature of man and the trick that was pulled on the pygmys. 3. DS2 (all crowns ending) shows the most comprehensive truth of the games. To live is to creep toward corruption. To live forever without hollowing is a fate worse than any. DS2 tells a story of multiple kingdoms over long eras ultimately crumbling and turning into dust, where new things will be build on top of in an endless cycle. It's a nihilistic truism that nothing you do will matter or be remembered given enough time. Gods are merely fools prancing around, ignorant of their eventual insignificance. Afraid of time and change. 4. Even if you end the fire in DS3 nothing would really change. The firekeeper even tells of a coming fire born out of dark. The cycle continues, and life itself is putrid and leads to corruption and decay. The cycle will produce countless lives and both kindle and burn the beginning and end of countless civilizations. Everybody either hollows into their true form or dies. There is no escape. Disparity itself was a mistake.
@@icebox1954 for your first point, that's kinda what I was going for. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that all of your points aren't something I disagree with, and if I did disprove them that's mostly my fault for being lousy at writing. What I was trying to say, what I was focusing on, wasn't the world, but the player character. What I feel would be a "better" internal logic for the character, or rather the one I prefer more. As I assume DS1's Chosen Undead is pretty ignorant of the full situation, I think Linking the Fire is a better choice that is safer for the world, yet still a harder choice to make, knowing you'd have to sacrifice yourself and that you would be forgotten, as opposed to taking the mantle of Dark Lord, which I assume seems at least kinda appealing. Similarly, the Bearer of the Curse in DS2 knows fuck all what's really going on, and I think siding with Aldia is, again, the "better" choice not for the world itself, but for the character. Notice I say "character" in all these instances, not necessarily the person themself. In other words, I like to imagine their character development through the choices the various protagonists make, and how those choices impact them personally, not their wellbeing, or that of the world. I'm the kidna guy who thinks hardship builds character, so I like when my PC experiences the tougher ending. The only thing I disagree with you on is that even the End of Fire ending is meaningless in DS3. I mean, first of all, it's in the name. It's not the "Dark Lord" ending. It's the *END OF FIRE* ending (to clarify I didn't "shout" or anything I just don't know how to give more pizzazz to the word besides bold and caps lock). Besides that, the Firekeeper saying she can see "tiny flames dance across the darkness" probably shouldn't be taken entirely literally, or at least I don't think it should. It's pretty ambiguous, and even the quote iirc doesn't say Flames, capital F, so it's not something that will perpetuate the cycles as we know it. It could be simply s metafor for something, or multiple of somethings, that will guide the world and it's inhabitants in the dark world they now live in, ergo "tiny flames will dance across the darkness". Fire is all they knew, and it's the best metafor for something that gives comfort and guidance, corrupted as it was. To me, lore wise, the End of Fire is undoubtedly the correct choice, alongside being my preferred choice as by the criteria I mentioned before. Even thematically it feels right, as the Souls series is brought to an end, but that doesn't mean Miyazaki will stop making games. In this case, the Fire ending is the end of the Souls series as we know it, while the tiny flames ate future projects left to come. We have one right now; Elden Ring, and there are hopefully many more in the future.
"The First Flame quickly fades. Darkness will shortly settle. But one day, tiny flames will dance across the darkness. Like embers, linked by lords past. Ashen one, hearest thou my voice, still?" ...Sometimes the solution is to let it go. And start a new flame.
ELDEN RING SPOILERS BELOW: Ironically the ending that best represents that sentiment is the Frenzied Flame ending. Dark Souls is about letting the end come with the dying of fire. Whereas the most absolute way to destroy the stagnation in the Lands Between is to burn the Erdtree until it's nothing more but a charred husk.
@@BababooeyGooey ELDEN RING SPOILERS BELOW No ending actually seems to end the cycle completely. If you don't restore death, tarnished will never rest. If you don't let Ranni take the Elden Ring into the stars and beyond the reach of humanity, it will continue to be used to legitimize the will of tyrants. If you don't use the Frenzied Flame to put down the Erdtree, the Erdtree will continue to trap souls and keep anyone from passing on. And those are just three different endings.
@@BababooeyGooey SPOILERS But you dont just burn the erdtree right? You burn everything down so that nothing can exist, which is why melina hates you for doing so. It doesnt escape the cycle, it just ends it outright. There cant be a cycle if theres nothing at all. I think Ranni's ending is the one where you escape the cycle, because it just yeets the outer gods away so that there is no more erdtree.
Fair points, but I was more so just highlighting the opposite roles fire plays in Dark Souls and Elden Ring; their "absolute" endings (not necessarily canon). The absolute end of Dark Souls being to let Flame die; and the absolute ending of Elden Ring to let the Frenzied Flame burn everything. I might be overthinking it (but let's be real it's a Souls fan's favorite pastime), making a connection when there really isn't one. I just thought it was neat juxtaposition.
@@BababooeyGooey SPOILERS: i think personally the better ending is ranni's. where the frenzied flame ending gives in to nihilism, ranni's chooses to move forward past the old golden order to new heights and great unknowns.
The lesson i learned from dark souls was that sometimes its okay to let things take their natural course. Change is inevitable. Instead of fighting to hold back change, accept and change with it. Some things are worth preserving, but if they begin to decay and the sacrifice required to preserve them becomes too great and twists its original meaning, then its better to be left to wither away and move on. Which is why my favorite ending is fading of the fire
In Sekiro, the Japanese name for the Mortal Blade is "fushi giri" or "Killer of fushi". The word fushi has two meanings: Immortal, and Undead. In Sekiro it obviously means immortal because the pursuit of immortality is like the most important plot point. But it's also the word used in the Japanese version of Dark Souls for the Undead. So basically, in Sekiro you get a sword which has the specific purpose of killing the Dark Souls protagonists. That's how much Miyazaki wants to do away with the old to make room for the new.
Hey man, this is brilliant. This gives me a much deeper appreciation for Elden Ring. The whole story of that game is based on Marika's refusal to accept death as part of the natural order, and it leads to all the catastrophes in the plot.
You won me over on this. Souls is about the war against entropy, and how we'll eventually lose no matter what. But, we have to fight it, because the only other option is to burn out. Brilliant video.
Thank you for making this! Immediately subbed and favorited after finishing. I’ve found it frustrating that most of the discourse on Dark Souls, Sekiro, and Bloodbourne takes the approach of literally deconstructing the games in a cold, almost scientific way. Focusing on the literal history of items and places rather than the soul of what those things are communicating. It’d be like if the entire discourse of Starry Night by Van Gogh was about who built the houses in the background, and what method of construction they used to do it. Anyway, great video. Hope to see more from you in this vein with Elden Ring.
I've only been watching you for about a month or 2 now , but I said when I first started watching your content that this man will surpass all other content creators on such a subject. I do believe this video stands as a testament to that. Pls continue to do this work 🙏🏻
I love your essays on the games, even thought i tried the games and couldn't play them. but i love these videos and the meanings you bring to us. Never stop please
Mr Rata, I mainly shitpost on your streams. But I love your videos so much, every time I finish Dark Souls 3 I cry. I always thought I was crazy even though I understand the themes. I felt weak. Your appreciation and exposition of these games and their artistry and depth made me feel like I was not crazy. Thanks to these videos I have managed to evolve as an artist, as I let my sorrow and anguish evolve into new emotions. I get to draw and create more than just abyss. Thank you very much Mr Rata
even so, i've always viewed the protagonists of the souls games as an exception to that rule. Even when we go hollow we can still push forward, regardless of how decayed and destroyed everything gets our character is ever present to struggle against the odds. They're only gone when we give up on the fight, aka quit the game. Even though the endings give a sense of finality to the game, the theme of cyclicality and "new journey's" (new game plus) gives our character a feel of constant presence in the world. I find that there's a small hinge of hope in that theme, too, about how perseverance can overcome the odds, and how the will and struggle of one soul can break past decay to become something more.
Now this is some unhinged theories I can get behind. But in all honestly this is an excellent video discussing the symbolism in dark souls that hasn't been deeply covered before.
Wow what an amazing work, at last I truly see, it finally made me realize that Sekiro has an English dub. But no seriously all jokes aside I had no idea, I played through it like 100 times and watched dozens of playthroughs and this was the first time I've heard those lines. For a second I thought you hired some voice actors to read them just for this video.
Probably the best Dark Souls lore video on the net. The only thing that confused me, was that you use a Humanity to regain your humanity. You would expect that taking more of the "dark soul" would make you more hollow, but now I understand that you are probably sacrificing the Humanity to keep your dark sign burning, and keep your hollowing in check.
@@ratatoskr6324 Bonfires are just nodes which connect to the First Flame. The essence of the First Flame- estus- is the very thing which "heals" an undead. Light fills the screen, enemies reset: time itself rewinds. The four Great Souls were taken from the flame, and over time, it began to go out. Humanity- that is, the divided Dark Soul, turned the hollows who already walked the caverns beneath the world into sapient beings. To return pieces of it to the First Flame allows one to return to being human. Sacrificing the potential for sapience in a new human to prolong the existence of your own.
Humanity comes from the dark soul though. It is the opposition to the Gods with their bright fire souls. Being hollow is from losing your portions of the dark soul. The new lords ignored the dark soul thinking it was useless, the Pygmy took it and they became 'humans'. Manus had his humanity 'go wild' and it created the corruption of the abyss. To me it's a clear metaphor for man's intelligence also being a double edged sword of destruction of his environment. The corrupting effect in souls games lore usually comes from a 'human' or lower caste person attempting to fight the gods or ascend to being one. In Elden Ring, Rhadan's intro cutscene specifically says the rot was caused by Melina. She tells us she is not a true maiden and I had my own suspicions as to why that are partially right from what I've seen so far. She's Rennalla's or Makria's daughter but not a true demigod and the mark on her eye is that of the three fingers, diametrically opposed to the two fingers. I have a feeling a boss or important character somewhere is going to be missing two and three fingers on their opposing hands somewhere or that they're the hands of the entity 'holding the world'.
@@poopsmith6853 Just so you know, it's not Melina who causes the rot. The reason that Caelid is rotting is because Malenia(a different, albeit not completely unrelated, character from Melina) unleashed the scarlet rot while she was about to lose to Radhan in battle during The Shattering. I know it's a bit confusing with them all having similar names. You can probably thank George for that lol.
@@wazza123ification you're right, they're different characters. Just sound really similar. I'm still thinking she's Makria's daughter though as she says she was born at the erdtree and her mother is there.
It is light, not the light emitting flame in of itself, that in the universe of Darksouls has the power to heal, to reverse rot. And I think Elden Ring explores the connection between Life and Light further, with the giant tree of light and all that. Rot in of itself also plays a far greater role, it has its own zone. You can see the old themes not being reused, but refined - and I think that's pretty cool.
OK bro, your explanation in this video is SO DAMN GOOD that I've linked it (No pun intended) to over 30 people. WOW! I'm, very impressed. (Subbed) Keep up the good work bro. I just found your channel tonight, but rest assured I'm going to watch all of your other videos. Thank you for posting it.
Just found this channel a couple hours ago and the second video of yours I have come across was this one, 20 minutes after you released it. Great content and perspective. Please, keep it coming :)
As someone who watched their father on his deathbed just a couple days ago, I can really resonate with this. He had bone cancer and at the end, his heart stopped functioning because a lot of it had died. So they put him on pain meds and he was barely lucid the last time I saw him. In an effort to preserve life at all cost, they sacrificed the consciousness inside the body. Basically, it's time to die if you have to go on pain meds that strip you of consciousness. I'd rather have a good goodbye than make my family preserve a husk.
It's wild, after all these lore videos and forum threads delving into the lore of these games, what really made me grasp miyazaki's overall vision on a deeper level than a mere synopsis of plot and themes, and really understand the core of his work, were recent events in real life involving close friends and acquaintances.
All miyazakis games talk about "the dark night of the soul" or "mortal journey" of man beating the emotional brain, old self dying and the awakening of the new self. I have made a movie/analysis about bloodborne displaying the symbolism hidden in visuals and storytelling.
honestly i will say the saddest part for Genichiro specifically? He was an orphan, everything taken from him, and then Isshin took him in, saw his potential, and so Genichiro feels he owes everything to the man who gave him everything, and the way to do so is to preserve everything his adoptive grandfather fought so hard to build. Isshin himself understands Ashina will not last forever, but being brought back by Genichiro's ultimate sacrifice, fighting Sekiro and making the attempt to preserve it still was him just honoring his grandson, even if he personally saw it as pitiful, and likely is glad you are able to overcome him, as now both he and Genichiro can rest.
Crazy idea: what if the lands between are the painting the painter painted? She said she was going to paint a dark place. Lands between has no sun. All the light comes from the erdtree, which was not meant to be there and is an invading species. There are also several paintings scattered through the lands between. Perhaps a reference to the painter in ariendel? Just some crazy thinking
That was just amazing, incredible video dude. Never thought of darks souls that way, it change the way a look at life. I wish great success for you dude! Thanks for the video.
So… in Elden Ring Radahn managed to fight the “rot” to a standstill. But it cost him his very sanity, and he devoured the corpses of his comrades as a result of losing his insanity by holding the rot at bay. When Radahn falls, the stars cease to stand still and the natural order of things is finally allowed to continue. The fate of the stars was withheld because Radahn lost his sanity in his battle to hold the rot still. But now that he has finally been put to rest, the age of stars may begin and we will see what fate holds in a new age. Man.
What a well articulated explanation of the symbolism behind Fromsoftware's works. Kudos to you for hitting a bullseye here. Humanity's desperation to cling to established order, thereby fettering itself from growing, is a central theme in all Miyazaki's works imo.
What I got from Dark souls is that no matter how strong, successfull and rich you are, you have to accept that one day it will all end. Even you will have to face the end one day. But instead of fearing it, accept it and make sure you are remembered.
What Miyazaki said about DS1’s and DS3’s protagonist really hits deep because the protagonist of DS1 is the true final (first half) boss of the DS3. The legend that passed on the flame and or history (DS1 protag) vs the one who is sent to put an end to the accumulated history (DS3 Protag). Then after the boss fight continues to the second phase, the true source of that history, is revealed. Lord Gwyn.
I love the theme of "The End." There can be nothing new, If nothing dies. Without Death, Life is meaningless. Fighting against the cycle of things, leads to a cursed existence. Such a beautiful series.
I agree with your assessment on one of the most poignant themes of Miyazaki and FromSoft's lore. I would also like to add that Straid of Olaphis directly talks about civilizations rising and falling, only for new civilizations to rise and take its place and he implies that this is the natural way of things. I would love you to tackle some of the themes of existentialism and meaning of life found in the series, particularly in those found in the stories of Solaire, Lucatiel and Aldia. The Gemsbok has a 95 minute video that goes very in-depth on similar themes, though his interpretation of the Painted Worlds is different.
This explains to me why Miyazaki's stories seem to have such a specific and loaded contempt for organized religion in all its forms. (Please don't misunderstand me here--I have nothing against individual religious people, I'm just stating a recurring theme in tons of these games as I've noticed it and interpreted it.) No other power structure in the world (or in Miyazaki's worlds) tries so hard to reach, preserve, and conserve a mythical state of perfection, or goes to such violent lengths to do so.
I’ve always viewed the paintings as an escape from the age of fire. They set their worlds afire and escape rot because they can. Unlike those on the outside who are cursed by the first sin. I think a painting from dark soul pigment creates a cyclical world that doesn’t rot, but where human death and the passing of ages can occur naturally. Of course the metaphorical meaning can exist alongside this.
Such an awesome video, covering a topic I haven't seen anyone else tackle as thoroughly as you have here. I hope people recognize the uniqueness of your content as well as the effort you put into research and putting the video together. I could listen to you talk for hours, I'm super excited for your Elden Ring content.
Great video, i see a preservation of fire from totally different perspective, but your theory is well explained and facts which you brought are really solid :) Keep it up!
I'm glad you finally addressed at the end that the point is the player's decision at the end of the game(s) because ultimately that's REALLY what the theme is about; that question of whether or not you extend the society, the civilization, or even humanity itself in the face of entropy, decay, rot, and oblivion. Like you said, there's no real answer to this question. It's one that's been debated for centuries, and it's the fundamental disagreement for example between Locke and Rousseau, at least in terms of what the true nature of humanity is compared to humanity's relation to civilization (interestingly Dark Souls sort of splits the difference between them, taking a Lockean perspective on the true nature of humanity [we're savage beneath the force of civilization] and a Rousseauean perspective in terms of civilization [civilization itself being a shackle on humanity]). However, I still think you're looking at this from an NPC/Lore perspective a bit too much, especially with Sekiro, as Sekiro as much as it's about a failed preservation of the past from the Ashinas' perspective is decidedly not about that from Sekiro's perspective. Since Sekiro is us, is the protagonist, his major drive and his thematic question - do you pursue duty to your family or your lord or do you seek redemption from both - mirrors and is oppositional to, yet a bit different from the themes of Genichiro or Ishin because of the factor of choice. Additionally, this is decidedly not the theme of ALL of Miyazaki's works. Demon's Souls being the key example. There it's definitely *a* theme, but it's not *the* theme. Because really the theme of Demon's Souls is hubris, specifically the hubris of the monumentals in the further past, and King Allant in more recent past, and then potentially the player character Slayer of Demons in the present, with the thematic question being whether the PC will learn from the mistakes of Allant and the monumentals or whether they will become corrupted and seek the power of the Old One themselves. While I greatly enjoy your analyses so far about these game, I do think you've been underemphasizing this aspect of player choice a bit in these series (aside from your ending on this one). Because in games, unlike other media, the player's perspective, whether or not they have choice, and what those choices are have to be taken into account in a *major* way when discussing themes. So far as I can see, that's the quickest way to divine the themes of these games more than anything, as in each of them the game will present the themes via the choices the major NPCs have made in order to thrust the same choice upon you, the player, at the end to see if you'll follow their lead or go against their example, and I guess I think this aspect needs more stressing perhaps.
These themes are extremely, albeit probably unintentionally, Nietzschean. The truly wise man must begin as a camel: accepting the burdens of what is old. He must then turn into a tiger: destroying it all. Finally he must become a child: creating something new in its place.
Ah yes, ideas similar to those of the French Revolution, which only created death, despair, and injustice. Rather, we ought to look to what we have been given, build upon it, and grow in virtue. This is the only true way forward. Otherwise you fall into relativism, the rejection of the objective truth, the fundamental philosophy of science: all things are intelligible, that is, the Logos exists. Ipsum esse subsistens. From the Logos comes all meaning and the end to which all things are ordered. We have rejected that in the post-modern age, and to the surprise of no philosopher from the eras before the enlightenment, there is only decay and destruction. Why? You cannot supplant an objective truth with an imaginary one and expect it to bring forth life. That which brings life will only come from natural law and following the essence of a thing to its end.
If I had to describe the entire Dark Souks series in a single word: Stagnation Like a pond left after the rain, there's always life teeming within the pond, but the pond is just there because it rained, and will eventually evaporate. Us, mosquitoes, may lay our eggs in this pond, maybe some dragonfly will be born of this pond, then all will leave for tye greater world. Then the pond will dry up and its existence will fade, leaving no trace. Stagnation is what the world has been since Gwyn's linking of the fire, and it's still stagnating at the end of the world. When fighting Gael, there's barely anything left, but is that really any different from the state of the world at the beginning of DS3?
Basically the hubris of man trying to hold on to what is dear not realizing somethings are worth letting go, but others are worth saving. Remember the light, but "fear not the dark my friend, and let the feast begin."
Sekiro is my first FromSoftware game. I didn't know why I love it so much, but later on with more understanding on Buddhism, everything just makes sense. I love it, because the theme resonates with the absolute truth, even at that time I didn’t intellectively understand it. My subconsciousness knows.
There are Dharma seals in Bushism that reflect our reality. That all things (the dharma) are Impermanent, Non-self, and Dukkha (dissatisfactory or suffering). Dukkha-Dukkha (the suffering of suffering, 10x Suffering, your bad attitudes of suffering make your suffering more severed) is created whenever you reject and stray from these universal principles. By recognize this, we can end any dukkha-dukkha with the Four Noble Truths teaching and have a tranquil view on the world. Without seeing the reality as is(ignorance), we live our lives creating karmas and we got stuck in the cycle of reincarnation or in the game (immortality). Each cycle of rebirth will be worsening (dragon rot) because of our past bad actions until we learn all the lessons necessary to become enlighten at our last reincarnation (That was literally the life of the Buddha, an enlighten one that ended the cycle of birth and death). Attaining Nirvana is liberation from that karmic cycle, entering the state of no birth and no death. However, the Buddha never meant that you will stop being born and died, for that is just a natural thing in the world like a tree in a forest being born out of a seed, grows up and die. Its existence is perfect and non-egoic, so there is no problem with it. Nirvana is just a state of mind that free of desires, greed, anger and ignorance. Nirvana is the absent of our egoic mind, the ego. Thousand years later, Buddhism went further East to China and Japan and got lost in translation and time. Now Buddhists are just being fearful of impermanent and suffering so they'd do anything to escape that reality, that act of wanting(desire) to do these things are the cause of dukkha-dukkha (the suffering of suffering) [Genichiro’s case] This problem is not just for the common people but also the Monastics, nuns and monks. They accept the premises of Impermanent and Dukkha but can’t fathom the concept of non-self (How could them ? because we can’t solve 3D math problems with 2D math knowledge. The same for the egoic mind will never understand the world without its existence). So they believe that with practice they will attain Nirvana, which, in their definition is a realm if Everlasting, Overflowing Joy, and it can happen to them (the self) (otherwise if it can’t be attain by “them”, why bother with the hardship of the monastic life). Thus they “abandoned” the path of the Buddha for “immortality” because they misunderstood the teaching not because they are evil. The Monks in senpou temple are infested with centipede and can’t die is just a physical manifestation of that very metaphor. Today 95% of Buddhist and monks are still on the wrong path because of China’s influences that’ve changed the core teaching of Buddhism. Finally, if we understand all of that, we know that immortality is the greatest curse for any being. To sever immortality, we need to send the Dragon back to the “West”. A metaphor to send back/reject China’s influences on Buddhism view. Sekiro did become enlighten by sever immortality in game. You finish the game and never boost it on again (No more birth and death for Sekiro). In short, FormSofware games are good because Miyazaki understands these universal principles and make his games based of them. Everything in Sekiro is closely related to Buddhism and Miyazaki used all of that to make a masterpiece.
“Those fools on the outside” I think would be other game developers such as activition. Staying in the same CoD painting even though it’s totally rotten. Imagine if they just made a new painting (IP). Edit: and now that I think about it, as weird as it sounds, Faze Jev would be Sister Friede. Also great video!
Damn, this video clearly overcomplicates everything. Hidetaka Miyazaki is waaay too smart to tell a complicated story in such a complicated way. Dark souls as a series is a jurney of redemption and reformation. It is a story of returning to ones roots. To abandon great power and do the right thing. Through 5 installments (ds1, ds2, ds3, bloodborne and sekiro) it tells a story of 5 simple words. This is where the genius lies in all the games, the fact that you need to play all of them to understand but you can scratch the surface without playing any of them as well. Dark Souls tells the story of a reformed orthodox rabbi Bill Clinton.
Do you think maybe this is how Miyazaki views all of human civilization itself? Each new form of civilization is ultimately doomed to collapse and our current form is well past it's expiration date maybe? I saw a chart once showing over 80 known human civilizations and they all basically lasted around the same amount of time. However, the ones that were the most advanced and lasted the longest had the greatest crashes.
I always appreciate Rata's respect of the story, and what it took to create this universe. I like how this also makes me more assured about the stopping of the flame on ds3 was the good ending😁😎 Nothing stays the same and when a story is done, you shouldn't cheapen, or ruin it by running it into the ground after it's done. I really do think that Myazaki is a great storyteller by introducing his concept of lore. I dont remember many lore videos being as prevalent before Dark Souls especially ones about other games, and I think it's been made popular by the lore hunting in the Souls series . When you play dark souls there's things that happen to make you wonder. You may put effort into understanding what's going on, and those findings and theories and the time spent postulating are creative and interesting, and fun! Hence, it becomes precious and a meaningful experience. I think that's a good mark of a storyteller of any form.
I like how there aren't really any villains in the soul's series, just individuals trying to figure out how to exist for a little while longer. I'm sure it won't happen, but it would be interesting if in Elden Ring there is a glimmer of hope for the world instead of certain doom. Even if all things do end.
there's at least 5 endings confirmed. The primary one is the 'obvious' one of doing the will of the two fingers and restoring the elden ring without the missing rune of death that allowed the demigods to die. the others are about getting a 'mending rune' to add during repair from deeper and more hidden NPC quest lines that have various different effects depending on the NPC's motivations. One is restoring the 'original' golden order via Goldmask, but this isn't very 'equal' like to the Tarnished from what we can tell, is it? Just makes you a new god with the order restored. There seems to be one that makes everyone equally cursed, and one that mends the ring with the death rune back.
Fun fact: Miyazaki is an educated social scientist. My guess is that he is a hegelian or at least an evolutionist. In his games it's about nobles/dictators that try to preserve their power by suppressing humans/the people because they are afraid of democracy. Miyazaki's last work (game) will perhaps include a democracy-ending where the player will be able to choose it.
Wow, congratulations Ratatoskr, you went from being totally unknown to me to one of my favorite youtubers. Those 31k subs don't do you justice. Thank you very much and great job! You nailed it with that ending that borders on hope and keeps the question alive: to link or not to link the flame. (excuse me for possible writings mistakes, English it's no my language)
The point about dark souls becoming old and ending it before it becomee a shadow of its former self is so spot on. Now look where we are with Elden Ring. Beautiful
I think this viedo takes way more relevance with elden ring out there, since its so similar to dark souls and yet so different. Wich is another point i think is important to talk about, that of maintenance, it´s the other way to defeat rot, being able to confront existencial death, but not defeat, being able to kill parts of you that are about expire, shedding your own skin. In reinventing ourselves we kill a part of the thing we call ourselves, so in shedding the skin of dark souls, the dark fantasy medieval ideas remain as elden ring, wich amazingly appears as a theme in elden ring, all the way the demigods choose new deitys to bow to, understanding that the pre established order is about to fade.
Fantastic video! You've earned yourself a new subscriber. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Wolf having PTSD, causing his amnesia. Do you believe this theory, and if so how does that impact the overall story and themes?
When something/someone is precious to someone, people are not going to necessarily defend the present state of something, but the meaning it had for them, to defend the value of the nostalgic meaning and purpose that influenced the person and the sphere that they created their identities within. That's all they knew and that's all they are interesting to know. Strong emotional attachments gave them happiness and fulfilment in life and the preservation/defending of the old ways, of what something meant to them, is just gratefulness towards the struggles and the bliss of the past, of the what i have become, who i am question. To adapt for the purpose of adapting and survive rather than clinging into your identity and dying within it can be seen as cowardice. The death of Socrates is the best example of a man who dies while following his own convictions, his own ideas, his own attachments. Without them, there is no grounding on earth. It's irrational to emotionally attach yourself so strongly to something, yet without it there are no strong feelings. With duty to the past, with strong feelings attached to the subject of conviction/affection, yeah there is nothing that's not worth lowering yourself to try to defend that, even your own life, it doesn't matter that everything is going to end or not, the whole purpose is to fight for the thing that matters to you.
One of the best summary of the themes of these games I've heard. Thanks a lot for your great work Ratatoskr. I wish I could share this with my friends who haven't played the games, so that they could understand my obsession with these worlds, but I fear you need to have played the games to understand those themes and how they are expressed fully.
I think the reason that Dark Souls' lore is beloved by so many because it speaks to the nature of things. Even if people don't understand it to the point of articulating it, everyone who loves the story understands something important is being said.
As Wallace Stevens pointed out: “But in contentment I still feel The need of some imperishable bliss."
👏🙂
And we would burn it all up for another second with those we love. It's this central theme of rot and the characters within struggling against this that made me fall for so many tragic heroes who seeing a world of rot gave everything to delay that rot. Like Gwynn, a true hero, a beautiful true god. Vain, flawed and eventually consumed completely to keep the fire alive. He is so well written for his role showing each stage of that journey from his younger heroic (where he was still ruthless) saga to his end as a desperate blackguard doing everything and using anyone to keep what he had made. It is a story that when I look at my daughter resonates so completely with me. We would do anything to maintain this age of fire.
Then there are symbols like Artorias. Heroes that were doomed and knew it but went anyway. Or the ivory king who found himself in a futile failing land and seeing this stood up and made it something more even if just for a time and through his choice to make things better redeemed a piece of the dark who in the end was the only thing holding back chaos till a true monarch came.
Its this theme of rot, its inevitability, and the heroic characters that stood inspite of the futility that first made me fall for these games. I knew when i first played them that Miyazaki was a man who could see the divinity in this apparently godless doomed existence
Sekiro isn't considered a soulsborne
Very well made video ratatoskr, you should be proud of yourself
Man! The way that From Software games seamlessly explore both the concepts of "decay/all things fade" and "never give up" is astounding. They are two concepts that can often be mistaken as at odds with each other. As a student of psychology, I absolutely love it because it's so applicable to life. For example, I often long for the days of my childhood as, all things considered, it was a blessed childhood. However, as much as I'd like to go back, the challenge and joy of being a father outweighs it all.
Don't anyone tell me that video games can't be deep and artistic!
I like to use the AI's speech as the Colonel in MGS2 when someone says games can't say anything of value.
My favorite part of DS3's lords not returning is that people usually just explain it off as "they refused their duty" but that really translates to "they did it before, and they didn't think it was worth it so they're not doing it again." Which is like, wow, either linking the fire just hurts THAT MUCH or the people who linked it before dont think that the world should continue to decay as it is.
I wonder whether they deny the fire for their own personal reasons, or that they see that the age of dark is coming and linking the fire will make no difference.
Yeah I think that they realized linking the fire is useless since I’m assuming they thought linking the fire would make things better but it didn’t.
I especially love your take on the Dark Souls 3 DLC being a metaphor for the series end, coincidently I was playing through this content around the time you made the original videos on the topic and they really gave me a perspective to everything I was seeing and doing in those DLC. It's all around an amazing series of games but all things should come to an end before they stagnate and get ruined by the fans and/or company insisting to continue what has already given everything it has to offer.
I'm incredibly happy that they made Elden Ring and not Dark Souls 4.
Ashen one, hearest thou my voice still?
It has been said they actually started work on Elden Ring immediately after DS3 DLC was finished, with Sekiro being a side-project similar to DS2 during Bloodborne
its unfortunate that elden ring is literally dark souls 4 xD
let me just explain ofc. there are a literal boat load of references to every other souls game in this one, and a lot of the same exact themes used in every other game and quite literally the same characters used as well. so Im thinking that elden ring is interconnected with the rest of the souls games without being directly so. like how anor londo was in ds1 and then again in ds3. that is my hopes at least, because in truth I dont really like the fact that im just playing the same fromsoftware game for the 4th time. especially because it was marketed to seem like it was completely disconnected from the others.
@@kregman6928 the main lore and character are still different. And From Soft has an habit of including recurring character/theme/item and monster in each of their title. It's not a reason to think of elden ring as a dark soul 4.
it's also important to understand that lore can't always be explained by gameplay. elden ring use the same stat system as darksoul for exemple, not because it's the same world, but because gameplay wise, it works and has been working for more than a decade. They refined a well crafted system over the years. I'm glad they didn't do a 180° and switch to something like elderscroll. You're still in a known territory gameplay wise, and it's help you focus on the new stuff, like the world and the lore while not having to relearn everything from scratch.
Also From soft loves to play with a "certain continuity" between every one of their title, from kingsfield to demonsoul, to darksoul and bloodborn. You can check vaatividya "theory" on the relation between all these games even tho it's cherrypicking the good argument for the sake of it.
My point is that, it's not because it seems familiar that elden ring is just the same as darksoul. Gameplay wise, it is. Lore wise, it adds enough to be worth of a new franchise.
Very few people actually analyze video games as a work of art. You're one of the very few people I see who actually look at games in the same way that a professor looks at The Grapes of Wrath and For Whom The Bell Tolls.
I really hope this video gets the views it deserves... I've also never seen anyone make this point about the series so fundamentally and it's really eye opening. I especially love how it covers not only the games but arguably the entire games industry and game production. I can imagine Far Cry 6 looking like a barren ashen land by this point but that won't stop the company from making a 7th game, they're gonna keep making more games despite the already present stagnation and I'm so glad this isn't the case for Dark Souls. Instead we'll be getting Elden Ring
@Yian Garuga I think the reason that Dark Souls' lore is beloved by so many because it speaks to the nature of things. Even if people don't understand it to the point of articulating it, everyone who loves the story understands something important is being said.
@@ratatoskr6324 Fully agreed. It's interesting that even without understanding the story the games are dear to so many. I never understood or even tried understanding the story of Dark Souls and Sekiro but they still became some of my favourite games and I think part of that is exactly because I didn't understand it. When one finishes these games for the first time there's that partial feeling of "wtf did I just play" and "there has to be more to this". And then it all becomes even better on later playthroughs when one does understand it.
That being said I hope I don't fully understand Elden Ring when I finish it. I don't want Souls games to not confuse and hide information from me. I want them to lie to my face, confuse me and compel me to ponder if I should really take everything at face value
An interesting bit of lore is that the Unkindled were actually the 7th or 8th round of a "last resort" option, Ocelotte was likely meant to be a backup plan if Lothric refused to link the fire, had Ocieros not lost his mind, then the bell brought the 4 previous lords back, the Abyss Watchers, Aldrich, Yhorm, and Ludleth, the only lord who was willing to reprise his martyrdom, bit was not strong enough to do so on his own, and so with that plan failed, a new champion was selected to link the fire, Gundyr who arrived to his shrine to see his firekeeper cast to her death with a shrine consumed by dark, so an Unkindled was chosen, not our own, but El Friede was the one chosen to link the fire, however she abandoned her mission and sought home and hearth in the painting, her sister would follow this want to end the age of fire in a different way, Yuria seeking an undead lord to lead an age of dark, which she potentially finds in the Ashen One, our Unkindled, who acted as the very final chance to link the fire and begin the cycle anew, I may not have the time line quite correct but altogether there were dozens of attempts at undoing the plans of Lothric and Lorian to bring about a new age, and depending on your actions, it may have been for nought
It's difficult to argue against Ariandel being a reflection of Dark Souls when Friede is literally another player character; Another Ashen One. She found the painting and loved it too much.
Friede represents those players who wish to preserve the age of fire whereas the dark lord player snatches the fire for the hollow to lead into an age of progress.
idk how fritos can possibly like that crappy dlc compared to ringed city
@@granthefato340 lmao fritos
@@RedCrowJXU but isn't Friede a sister of the Sable Church? Who's entire goal is to find the Lord of hollows. Also is she really an Ashen one? Since she's a sister of the Sable Church it seems like she's been around since well before the bell tolled to awake the ashen ones
@@sharmgidly3497 She left the Sable church to go into the Painted World of Ariandel. Leadership was transferred over to Yuria and Orianna. Friede represents this inability to move into the future in the painting just like Gywn outside is unable to move past his Age of Fire.
Excellent video essay. This is the kind of thing I've always struggled to find in Dark Souls content; someone trying to make some sense of what the games are about, rather than what happens in the games. I'd like to see more persuasive work from you, great work.
Yeah, I don't really care so much that "goober the grandiose odour emitter" or whatever choked on the spittle of a gumnut tree 1000 years ago in the story (though that could still be interesting)
Bro the first few minutes alone, are so impressively written... Never have I heard a From Software story told so clearly. Instant sub
so glad i found somebody that doesn't only just talk about the objective things that happen in dark souls, but the symbolism and what they mean
I agree SO much. I wish people would look for other content creators like this who do more than very surface level lore connecting....yes I am throwing shade.
All miyazakis games talk about "the dark night of the soul" or "mortal journey" of man beating the emotional brain, old self dying and the awakening of the new self.
I have made a movie/analysis about bloodborne displaying the symbolism hidden in visuals and storytelling.
I find Bloodborne fascinating in this context, as it features a multitude of characters all trying to find the right way to progress, evolve, and change.
In a sense it almost seems to represent the opposite end of the spectrum.
But maybe it’s actually showing the folly of trying to copy the one-time magic of a work, only to defile its image.
Makes sense, from what little I understand of Bloodborne. Everyone was trying to make their own version of the Great Ones, but pretty much all of them came out terribly. Just like a lot of people hopped on the Soulslike wagon and only created lesser copies.
Bloodborne is a video game manifestation of the "God is dead, and we have killed Him" passage that Nietzche wrote.
@@briggy4359 No, it's very clearly H.P. Lovecraft mythos lore taking place in a Victorian 'mage/blood-punk' setting. Blatantly so in enemy names and design. Not saying literally everything is Lovecraft inspired, but the idea of studying the cosmos (note: not necessarily outer space as modern people think of it) to gain eldritch knowledge and simultaneously being driven mad by the revelations of such insights gained from it is pretty much the trope wheelhouse of Lovecraft. The initial 'great one' (another Lovecraft term for eldritch gods) people interacted with was found in the fishing village and human/eldritch hybrids were made from consuming the flesh of eldritch beings who do not lose their ethereal being when 'killed'. It's very on the nose in this regard. The events themselves being presented as all 'being a dream' as well. Lovecraft said dreams were his best inspiration and a good device to use to frame stories about such things.
In fact, mythos themes permeate much of From's games since Demon's Souls. A sunken 'fallen city' is usually prominent and featured (sometimes literally fallen from the stars as in Elden Ring), as are being that are mutations of squid/aquatic creatures (eldritch cosmic beings) and man. The idea of madness coming from eldritch truth obscured to the currently existing is also featured.
It's quite an opposition to Nietzche. More like "god is dead, and we killed him to take his place, but are as ignorant as a child playing with their father's gun". Nietzsche envisioned no gods, no masters, only the 'overman' becoming an enlightened entity eventually. I realize the passage alone seems to be giving the same sentiment, but his overall philosophy does not. Hierarchy and rule over the weak by those with their own inequity is definitely still prominent in the endings of Soul's games. Equality comes from being equally brought down, not up such as the darkness ending where you also kill the fire keeper in ds3 or refuse to take the throne in ds2 after also killing the scholar. Taking the new life as an infant cosmic being ending in Bloodborne implies no true ascent or evolution of man to me, only that you are the new "moon presence" in the nightmare that never truly ends. Not discovering the method to fight it but defeating Gherman is you taking his place and accepting your gods, and accepting Gherman's demand is obeying your master.
There is a lore idea in Bloodborne that Beast Howl uses the humans own vocal cords, and the Church fears this. Micolash in particular. The Church running from the "beastly idiocy".
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 there's also some hunter NPCs who are 'awakened' from the dream. the one in the lower town with the machine gun says the beasts are not what they seem and the true beasts are the church
Hey, you finally did it! To be honest, no matter how much digging I find with lore videos, I rarely find any videos that cover the symbolism as well as you do. The extent is usually just Fire, Dark, and occasionally the Deep. That's about it, and even then it's just at a cursory, words as written and/or highly opinionated conjecture. So with that said, I'm quite excited and curious to see what this video has to provide.
But “highly opinionated conjecture” is what fandoms do best!
No, I am Doom.
I'm glad that you are not skipping on DS2 lore. It is honestly extremely in depth and suprisingly important in the saga but creators often times ignore it due to their personal disdain.
It's really not. Especially the parts about futility of trying to change anything and constantly re-emerging lord souls. Those just not what Dark Souls is about. The only real way to use DS2 lore is to take the most coherent parts of it and ignore the rest.
This x 1000!
I think the main reason people, at least lore wise, tend to ignore DS2 is because it's all over the place. For most of the game, or the whole game if you're playing the original version, linking the Fire is not only the best option, it's your ONLY option. It goes so far to tell you that liking the Fire is so important, so *correct* , that not doing that isn't even an option. Only if you play the Scholar of the First Sin are you introduced to the ideas of Aldia, who's primary goal is to end the Age of Fire, to put an end to the established order, no matter how comfortable it is, so that humanity can see the truth and become what they were always destined to be. Yet even then, your character isn't even considering the idea unless they meet Aldia in every spot you can in game. You botch the progression once and you HAVE to Link the Fire. So, which message are we supposed to get? What are we supposed to choose, linking the Fire, to perpetuate the Age of Fire, end the Undead Curse and perhaps find out "the truth?" Or do we listen to a dubious character, someone who is repeatedly shown to not be reliable? Do we, as Aldia would want us to, end the Fire and venture unto the unknown, accepting not what humanity wants, but what it needs?
Like I said, it's real confusing, at least to me. Though I do prefer the "leave the Throne" ending. But that's because I have a massive boner for the type of character that's "destined for greatness" but cares more to do the RIGHT thing, not what they're told to do. Which is why I like the Linking ending to DS1. Kaathe's all like "hurr durr lemt the Flame die and bemcome lormd of Darmk" and I'm all like "nooo it'll be cooler if I light myself on Fire and nobody ever remembers me trust me it's because it's the right thing to do". As one can guess, I also prefer the End of Fire ending for DS3, though for deeper reasons than that.
I'd like to add, about the DS1 endings. I have a differing opinion on which one is the easy / hard one to make. A lot of people think, as far as I know, that the Link the Fire ending is easy, while the Dark Lord ending is the one you have to work for, ergo the "right" one. I call bullshit. You're being controlled either way, but the Dark Lord ending does to your character what it doubtlessly does to the player as well: you hear the title, you hear the lore, and you think "I will be the hero! Not the one they want, but the one they need!" While, in truth, Kaathe is most likely just using you for his own agenda. Oh, of course, Linking the Flame is exactly doing what the Gods want you to so they can stay sitting in their comfy chairs and ruling over the poor weak humans that are left. Both choices are neither wrong not right, as both, I believe, lead to the same situation in DS3, assuming the Dark Lord ending doesn't actually forever extinguish the Flame. I just want to argue that the character you control is massively cooler if you pick the Link the Fire ending. There he/she is, nameless, cursed and forgotten by history, setting themself aflame, not really sure if what they're doing is *really* correct, but it's not like they'll be able to check. They're perpetuating the cicle not for the Gods, but for the little guys suffering from all this. It's the right thing to do, most of all because it enables the Ashen One in DS3 to choose the "End of Fire" ending, which is not only thematically the correct choice, but also from a lore perspective; after all, *that's it* . No more Dark Souls. This is the *end*
Sorry for the rant. I just got mega inspired by Ratatoskr's masterpiece of a video. I swear, this guy...
@@YTDariuS-my6dg You are fundamentally mistaken or confused about a few things.
1. I think the point of DS1 (both endings) is that you're a witless, ignorant pawn who dies for things outside your own sphere of knowledge. You were never given a choice, not really. You were sold a false narrative as some "chosen one" when you were just one of many to come. A means to an end.
If you had not linked the flame in DS1 then the bells would simply ring once more. The flame was still strong then.
2. DS2 SoTFS has by far the most insightful characters in the lore.
Aldia saw the ruse of DS1 for what it was and sought the truth rather than comfortable ignorance. We really didn't know what Aldia did until the end of the Ringed City. He understood the true nature of man and the trick that was pulled on the pygmys.
3. DS2 (all crowns ending) shows the most comprehensive truth of the games.
To live is to creep toward corruption. To live forever without hollowing is a fate worse than any. DS2 tells a story of multiple kingdoms over long eras ultimately crumbling and turning into dust, where new things will be build on top of in an endless cycle.
It's a nihilistic truism that nothing you do will matter or be remembered given enough time. Gods are merely fools prancing around, ignorant of their eventual insignificance. Afraid of time and change.
4. Even if you end the fire in DS3 nothing would really change. The firekeeper even tells of a coming fire born out of dark. The cycle continues, and life itself is putrid and leads to corruption and decay.
The cycle will produce countless lives and both kindle and burn the beginning and end of countless civilizations.
Everybody either hollows into their true form or dies. There is no escape.
Disparity itself was a mistake.
@@icebox1954 for your first point, that's kinda what I was going for. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that all of your points aren't something I disagree with, and if I did disprove them that's mostly my fault for being lousy at writing. What I was trying to say, what I was focusing on, wasn't the world, but the player character. What I feel would be a "better" internal logic for the character, or rather the one I prefer more. As I assume DS1's Chosen Undead is pretty ignorant of the full situation, I think Linking the Fire is a better choice that is safer for the world, yet still a harder choice to make, knowing you'd have to sacrifice yourself and that you would be forgotten, as opposed to taking the mantle of Dark Lord, which I assume seems at least kinda appealing. Similarly, the Bearer of the Curse in DS2 knows fuck all what's really going on, and I think siding with Aldia is, again, the "better" choice not for the world itself, but for the character. Notice I say "character" in all these instances, not necessarily the person themself. In other words, I like to imagine their character development through the choices the various protagonists make, and how those choices impact them personally, not their wellbeing, or that of the world. I'm the kidna guy who thinks hardship builds character, so I like when my PC experiences the tougher ending.
The only thing I disagree with you on is that even the End of Fire ending is meaningless in DS3. I mean, first of all, it's in the name. It's not the "Dark Lord" ending. It's the *END OF FIRE* ending (to clarify I didn't "shout" or anything I just don't know how to give more pizzazz to the word besides bold and caps lock). Besides that, the Firekeeper saying she can see "tiny flames dance across the darkness" probably shouldn't be taken entirely literally, or at least I don't think it should. It's pretty ambiguous, and even the quote iirc doesn't say Flames, capital F, so it's not something that will perpetuate the cycles as we know it. It could be simply s metafor for something, or multiple of somethings, that will guide the world and it's inhabitants in the dark world they now live in, ergo "tiny flames will dance across the darkness". Fire is all they knew, and it's the best metafor for something that gives comfort and guidance, corrupted as it was. To me, lore wise, the End of Fire is undoubtedly the correct choice, alongside being my preferred choice as by the criteria I mentioned before. Even thematically it feels right, as the Souls series is brought to an end, but that doesn't mean Miyazaki will stop making games. In this case, the Fire ending is the end of the Souls series as we know it, while the tiny flames ate future projects left to come. We have one right now; Elden Ring, and there are hopefully many more in the future.
"The First Flame quickly fades.
Darkness will shortly settle.
But one day, tiny flames will dance across the darkness.
Like embers, linked by lords past.
Ashen one, hearest thou my voice, still?"
...Sometimes the solution is to let it go. And start a new flame.
Change is nature’s delight
"The cycle ends here. We must be better than this." I can't wait to break the cycle again in Elden Ring
ELDEN RING SPOILERS BELOW:
Ironically the ending that best represents that sentiment is the Frenzied Flame ending. Dark Souls is about letting the end come with the dying of fire. Whereas the most absolute way to destroy the stagnation in the Lands Between is to burn the Erdtree until it's nothing more but a charred husk.
@@BababooeyGooey
ELDEN RING SPOILERS BELOW
No ending actually seems to end the cycle completely. If you don't restore death, tarnished will never rest. If you don't let Ranni take the Elden Ring into the stars and beyond the reach of humanity, it will continue to be used to legitimize the will of tyrants. If you don't use the Frenzied Flame to put down the Erdtree, the Erdtree will continue to trap souls and keep anyone from passing on. And those are just three different endings.
@@BababooeyGooey SPOILERS
But you dont just burn the erdtree right? You burn everything down so that nothing can exist, which is why melina hates you for doing so. It doesnt escape the cycle, it just ends it outright. There cant be a cycle if theres nothing at all.
I think Ranni's ending is the one where you escape the cycle, because it just yeets the outer gods away so that there is no more erdtree.
Fair points, but I was more so just highlighting the opposite roles fire plays in Dark Souls and Elden Ring; their "absolute" endings (not necessarily canon).
The absolute end of Dark Souls being to let Flame die; and the absolute ending of Elden Ring to let the Frenzied Flame burn everything. I might be overthinking it (but let's be real it's a Souls fan's favorite pastime), making a connection when there really isn't one. I just thought it was neat juxtaposition.
@@BababooeyGooey
SPOILERS:
i think personally the better ending is ranni's. where the frenzied flame ending gives in to nihilism, ranni's chooses to move forward past the old golden order to new heights and great unknowns.
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CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP!👏 👏 👏 👏
Thank you for this wonderful analysis.
hahá you here!
Thanks, it nearly killed me.
The lesson i learned from dark souls was that sometimes its okay to let things take their natural course. Change is inevitable. Instead of fighting to hold back change, accept and change with it. Some things are worth preserving, but if they begin to decay and the sacrifice required to preserve them becomes too great and twists its original meaning, then its better to be left to wither away and move on. Which is why my favorite ending is fading of the fire
In Sekiro, the Japanese name for the Mortal Blade is "fushi giri" or "Killer of fushi". The word fushi has two meanings: Immortal, and Undead. In Sekiro it obviously means immortal because the pursuit of immortality is like the most important plot point. But it's also the word used in the Japanese version of Dark Souls for the Undead. So basically, in Sekiro you get a sword which has the specific purpose of killing the Dark Souls protagonists. That's how much Miyazaki wants to do away with the old to make room for the new.
Hey man, this is brilliant. This gives me a much deeper appreciation for Elden Ring. The whole story of that game is based on Marika's refusal to accept death as part of the natural order, and it leads to all the catastrophes in the plot.
You won me over on this. Souls is about the war against entropy, and how we'll eventually lose no matter what. But, we have to fight it, because the only other option is to burn out. Brilliant video.
This might be one of the best Souls videos I have ever watched.
Thank you for making this! Immediately subbed and favorited after finishing. I’ve found it frustrating that most of the discourse on Dark Souls, Sekiro, and Bloodbourne takes the approach of literally deconstructing the games in a cold, almost scientific way. Focusing on the literal history of items and places rather than the soul of what those things are communicating. It’d be like if the entire discourse of Starry Night by Van Gogh was about who built the houses in the background, and what method of construction they used to do it. Anyway, great video. Hope to see more from you in this vein with Elden Ring.
I already came to this conclusion partly with your help, but I'm glad you've put it in a video essay that I can enjoy and share
Fantastic video, I could never articulate what I liked so much about dark souls lore bt you put it so well
I've only been watching you for about a month or 2 now , but I said when I first started watching your content that this man will surpass all other content creators on such a subject. I do believe this video stands as a testament to that. Pls continue to do this work 🙏🏻
I love your essays on the games, even thought i tried the games and couldn't play them. but i love these videos and the meanings you bring to us. Never stop please
Mr Rata, I mainly shitpost on your streams. But I love your videos so much, every time I finish Dark Souls 3 I cry. I always thought I was crazy even though I understand the themes. I felt weak. Your appreciation and exposition of these games and their artistry and depth made me feel like I was not crazy. Thanks to these videos I have managed to evolve as an artist, as I let my sorrow and anguish evolve into new emotions. I get to draw and create more than just abyss. Thank you very much Mr Rata
Video games... books... movies... myths... all are Painted Worlds.
Great video. New sub.
7:20 after you said "I quote", a really loud charmin ad began and I can't remember what it said but it made me jump. I was not expecting that at all.
I love Miyazaki's work a lot. But it hurts to be reminded that we cannot keep the things we love forever.
Or even for a particularly long time...
even so, i've always viewed the protagonists of the souls games as an exception to that rule. Even when we go hollow we can still push forward, regardless of how decayed and destroyed everything gets our character is ever present to struggle against the odds. They're only gone when we give up on the fight, aka quit the game.
Even though the endings give a sense of finality to the game, the theme of cyclicality and "new journey's" (new game plus) gives our character a feel of constant presence in the world. I find that there's a small hinge of hope in that theme, too, about how perseverance can overcome the odds, and how the will and struggle of one soul can break past decay to become something more.
Good delivery, well done. I’ve heard these kinds of interpretations since DS1 days but this vid is a nice way of wrapping the series up.
Now this is some unhinged theories I can get behind.
But in all honestly this is an excellent video discussing the symbolism in dark souls that hasn't been deeply covered before.
Wow what an amazing work, at last I truly see, it finally made me realize that Sekiro has an English dub.
But no seriously all jokes aside I had no idea, I played through it like 100 times and watched dozens of playthroughs and this was the first time I've heard those lines.
For a second I thought you hired some voice actors to read them just for this video.
Bruh same 💀😂 I was like????? 😂
Probably the best Dark Souls lore video on the net. The only thing that confused me, was that you use a Humanity to regain your humanity. You would expect that taking more of the "dark soul" would make you more hollow, but now I understand that you are probably sacrificing the Humanity to keep your dark sign burning, and keep your hollowing in check.
Yes! You have to burn them in bonfires!
@@ratatoskr6324 Bonfires are just nodes which connect to the First Flame. The essence of the First Flame- estus- is the very thing which "heals" an undead. Light fills the screen, enemies reset: time itself rewinds.
The four Great Souls were taken from the flame, and over time, it began to go out. Humanity- that is, the divided Dark Soul, turned the hollows who already walked the caverns beneath the world into sapient beings. To return pieces of it to the First Flame allows one to return to being human. Sacrificing the potential for sapience in a new human to prolong the existence of your own.
Humanity comes from the dark soul though. It is the opposition to the Gods with their bright fire souls. Being hollow is from losing your portions of the dark soul. The new lords ignored the dark soul thinking it was useless, the Pygmy took it and they became 'humans'. Manus had his humanity 'go wild' and it created the corruption of the abyss. To me it's a clear metaphor for man's intelligence also being a double edged sword of destruction of his environment. The corrupting effect in souls games lore usually comes from a 'human' or lower caste person attempting to fight the gods or ascend to being one. In Elden Ring, Rhadan's intro cutscene specifically says the rot was caused by Melina. She tells us she is not a true maiden and I had my own suspicions as to why that are partially right from what I've seen so far. She's Rennalla's or Makria's daughter but not a true demigod and the mark on her eye is that of the three fingers, diametrically opposed to the two fingers. I have a feeling a boss or important character somewhere is going to be missing two and three fingers on their opposing hands somewhere or that they're the hands of the entity 'holding the world'.
@@poopsmith6853 Just so you know, it's not Melina who causes the rot. The reason that Caelid is rotting is because Malenia(a different, albeit not completely unrelated, character from Melina) unleashed the scarlet rot while she was about to lose to Radhan in battle during The Shattering. I know it's a bit confusing with them all having similar names. You can probably thank George for that lol.
@@wazza123ification you're right, they're different characters. Just sound really similar. I'm still thinking she's Makria's daughter though as she says she was born at the erdtree and her mother is there.
It is light, not the light emitting flame in of itself, that in the universe of Darksouls has the power to heal, to reverse rot. And I think Elden Ring explores the connection between Life and Light further, with the giant tree of light and all that. Rot in of itself also plays a far greater role, it has its own zone. You can see the old themes not being reused, but refined - and I think that's pretty cool.
OK bro, your explanation in this video is SO DAMN GOOD that I've linked it (No pun intended) to over 30 people. WOW! I'm, very impressed. (Subbed)
Keep up the good work bro. I just found your channel tonight, but rest assured I'm going to watch all of your other videos. Thank you for posting it.
Thank you for the video! It's hard to pull these themes and make them grounded in tangible examples, great job
Glad you got time to make this before the launch of Elden Ring, great video Rata. Your analyses are really refreshing.
Maldron the Assassin represents people who will continually try to stop you from achieving your goal in life
DS2 is underrated by a metric mile in regards to its lore contributions and revelations.
Just found this channel a couple hours ago and the second video of yours I have come across was this one, 20 minutes after you released it.
Great content and perspective. Please, keep it coming :)
As someone who watched their father on his deathbed just a couple days ago, I can really resonate with this. He had bone cancer and at the end, his heart stopped functioning because a lot of it had died.
So they put him on pain meds and he was barely lucid the last time I saw him. In an effort to preserve life at all cost, they sacrificed the consciousness inside the body.
Basically, it's time to die if you have to go on pain meds that strip you of consciousness. I'd rather have a good goodbye than make my family preserve a husk.
It's wild, after all these lore videos and forum threads delving into the lore of these games, what really made me grasp miyazaki's overall vision on a deeper level than a mere synopsis of plot and themes, and really understand the core of his work, were recent events in real life involving close friends and acquaintances.
All miyazakis games talk about "the dark night of the soul" or "mortal journey" of man beating the emotional brain, old self dying and the awakening of the new self.
I have made a movie/analysis about bloodborne displaying the symbolism hidden in visuals and storytelling.
honestly i will say the saddest part for Genichiro specifically? He was an orphan, everything taken from him, and then Isshin took him in, saw his potential, and so Genichiro feels he owes everything to the man who gave him everything, and the way to do so is to preserve everything his adoptive grandfather fought so hard to build. Isshin himself understands Ashina will not last forever, but being brought back by Genichiro's ultimate sacrifice, fighting Sekiro and making the attempt to preserve it still was him just honoring his grandson, even if he personally saw it as pitiful, and likely is glad you are able to overcome him, as now both he and Genichiro can rest.
Crazy idea: what if the lands between are the painting the painter painted? She said she was going to paint a dark place. Lands between has no sun. All the light comes from the erdtree, which was not meant to be there and is an invading species. There are also several paintings scattered through the lands between. Perhaps a reference to the painter in ariendel? Just some crazy thinking
That was just amazing, incredible video dude. Never thought of darks souls that way, it change the way a look at life. I wish great success for you dude! Thanks for the video.
One of the best videos you've ever made, good work!
Most well done lore explanation video and it’s so short
So… in Elden Ring Radahn managed to fight the “rot” to a standstill. But it cost him his very sanity, and he devoured the corpses of his comrades as a result of losing his insanity by holding the rot at bay. When Radahn falls, the stars cease to stand still and the natural order of things is finally allowed to continue. The fate of the stars was withheld because Radahn lost his sanity in his battle to hold the rot still. But now that he has finally been put to rest, the age of stars may begin and we will see what fate holds in a new age.
Man.
What a well articulated explanation of the symbolism behind Fromsoftware's works. Kudos to you for hitting a bullseye here. Humanity's desperation to cling to established order, thereby fettering itself from growing, is a central theme in all Miyazaki's works imo.
This is facts, keep posting quality
What I got from Dark souls is that no matter how strong, successfull and rich you are, you have to accept that one day it will all end. Even you will have to face the end one day. But instead of fearing it, accept it and make sure you are remembered.
What Miyazaki said about DS1’s and DS3’s protagonist really hits deep because the protagonist of DS1 is the true final (first half) boss of the DS3. The legend that passed on the flame and or history (DS1 protag) vs the one who is sent to put an end to the accumulated history (DS3 Protag). Then after the boss fight continues to the second phase, the true source of that history, is revealed. Lord Gwyn.
I love the theme of "The End."
There can be nothing new, If nothing dies. Without Death, Life is meaningless. Fighting against the cycle of things, leads to a cursed existence.
Such a beautiful series.
I agree with your assessment on one of the most poignant themes of Miyazaki and FromSoft's lore. I would also like to add that Straid of Olaphis directly talks about civilizations rising and falling, only for new civilizations to rise and take its place and he implies that this is the natural way of things. I would love you to tackle some of the themes of existentialism and meaning of life found in the series, particularly in those found in the stories of Solaire, Lucatiel and Aldia.
The Gemsbok has a 95 minute video that goes very in-depth on similar themes, though his interpretation of the Painted Worlds is different.
One of the best Soulsborne RUclipsr right there
So linking the flame is basically like hitting the snooze button on my phone 15 times every morning.
This explains to me why Miyazaki's stories seem to have such a specific and loaded contempt for organized religion in all its forms. (Please don't misunderstand me here--I have nothing against individual religious people, I'm just stating a recurring theme in tons of these games as I've noticed it and interpreted it.) No other power structure in the world (or in Miyazaki's worlds) tries so hard to reach, preserve, and conserve a mythical state of perfection, or goes to such violent lengths to do so.
I’ve always viewed the paintings as an escape from the age of fire. They set their worlds afire and escape rot because they can. Unlike those on the outside who are cursed by the first sin. I think a painting from dark soul pigment creates a cyclical world that doesn’t rot, but where human death and the passing of ages can occur naturally. Of course the metaphorical meaning can exist alongside this.
I like your take on the DLC the best to be honest, it really is something when you think about the whole series and the DLC that way.
I love how smart this video makes us feel since I think we all had the same idea at one point or another.
Such an awesome video, covering a topic I haven't seen anyone else tackle as thoroughly as you have here. I hope people recognize the uniqueness of your content as well as the effort you put into research and putting the video together. I could listen to you talk for hours, I'm super excited for your Elden Ring content.
Great video, i see a preservation of fire from totally different perspective, but your theory is well explained and facts which you brought are really solid :) Keep it up!
I'm glad you finally addressed at the end that the point is the player's decision at the end of the game(s) because ultimately that's REALLY what the theme is about; that question of whether or not you extend the society, the civilization, or even humanity itself in the face of entropy, decay, rot, and oblivion. Like you said, there's no real answer to this question. It's one that's been debated for centuries, and it's the fundamental disagreement for example between Locke and Rousseau, at least in terms of what the true nature of humanity is compared to humanity's relation to civilization (interestingly Dark Souls sort of splits the difference between them, taking a Lockean perspective on the true nature of humanity [we're savage beneath the force of civilization] and a Rousseauean perspective in terms of civilization [civilization itself being a shackle on humanity]).
However, I still think you're looking at this from an NPC/Lore perspective a bit too much, especially with Sekiro, as Sekiro as much as it's about a failed preservation of the past from the Ashinas' perspective is decidedly not about that from Sekiro's perspective. Since Sekiro is us, is the protagonist, his major drive and his thematic question - do you pursue duty to your family or your lord or do you seek redemption from both - mirrors and is oppositional to, yet a bit different from the themes of Genichiro or Ishin because of the factor of choice.
Additionally, this is decidedly not the theme of ALL of Miyazaki's works. Demon's Souls being the key example. There it's definitely *a* theme, but it's not *the* theme. Because really the theme of Demon's Souls is hubris, specifically the hubris of the monumentals in the further past, and King Allant in more recent past, and then potentially the player character Slayer of Demons in the present, with the thematic question being whether the PC will learn from the mistakes of Allant and the monumentals or whether they will become corrupted and seek the power of the Old One themselves.
While I greatly enjoy your analyses so far about these game, I do think you've been underemphasizing this aspect of player choice a bit in these series (aside from your ending on this one). Because in games, unlike other media, the player's perspective, whether or not they have choice, and what those choices are have to be taken into account in a *major* way when discussing themes. So far as I can see, that's the quickest way to divine the themes of these games more than anything, as in each of them the game will present the themes via the choices the major NPCs have made in order to thrust the same choice upon you, the player, at the end to see if you'll follow their lead or go against their example, and I guess I think this aspect needs more stressing perhaps.
These themes are extremely, albeit probably unintentionally, Nietzschean.
The truly wise man must begin as a camel: accepting the burdens of what is old.
He must then turn into a tiger: destroying it all.
Finally he must become a child: creating something new in its place.
Ah yes, ideas similar to those of the French Revolution, which only created death, despair, and injustice. Rather, we ought to look to what we have been given, build upon it, and grow in virtue. This is the only true way forward. Otherwise you fall into relativism, the rejection of the objective truth, the fundamental philosophy of science: all things are intelligible, that is, the Logos exists. Ipsum esse subsistens. From the Logos comes all meaning and the end to which all things are ordered. We have rejected that in the post-modern age, and to the surprise of no philosopher from the eras before the enlightenment, there is only decay and destruction. Why? You cannot supplant an objective truth with an imaginary one and expect it to bring forth life. That which brings life will only come from natural law and following the essence of a thing to its end.
@@juice2307 Not in the slightest, in fact entirely the opposite :)
Very good Video and very good theory.
Love that u involved DARK souls 2 like it deserved it.
If I had to describe the entire Dark Souks series in a single word: Stagnation
Like a pond left after the rain, there's always life teeming within the pond, but the pond is just there because it rained, and will eventually evaporate. Us, mosquitoes, may lay our eggs in this pond, maybe some dragonfly will be born of this pond, then all will leave for tye greater world. Then the pond will dry up and its existence will fade, leaving no trace.
Stagnation is what the world has been since Gwyn's linking of the fire, and it's still stagnating at the end of the world. When fighting Gael, there's barely anything left, but is that really any different from the state of the world at the beginning of DS3?
Basically the hubris of man trying to hold on to what is dear not realizing somethings are worth letting go, but others are worth saving. Remember the light, but "fear not the dark my friend, and let the feast begin."
Such a beautiful lore, incredible video btw.
This is probably the best summary of the souls series I've ever heard. Thank you
Sekiro is my first FromSoftware game. I didn't know why I love it so much, but later on with more understanding on Buddhism, everything just makes sense. I love it, because the theme resonates with the absolute truth, even at that time I didn’t intellectively understand it. My subconsciousness knows.
There are Dharma seals in Bushism that reflect our reality. That all things (the dharma) are Impermanent, Non-self, and Dukkha (dissatisfactory or suffering). Dukkha-Dukkha (the suffering of suffering, 10x Suffering, your bad attitudes of suffering make your suffering more severed) is created whenever you reject and stray from these universal principles. By recognize this, we can end any dukkha-dukkha with the Four Noble Truths teaching and have a tranquil view on the world.
Without seeing the reality as is(ignorance), we live our lives creating karmas and we got stuck in the cycle of reincarnation or in the game (immortality). Each cycle of rebirth will be worsening (dragon rot) because of our past bad actions until we learn all the lessons necessary to become enlighten at our last reincarnation (That was literally the life of the Buddha, an enlighten one that ended the cycle of birth and death). Attaining Nirvana is liberation from that karmic cycle, entering the state of no birth and no death. However, the Buddha never meant that you will stop being born and died, for that is just a natural thing in the world like a tree in a forest being born out of a seed, grows up and die. Its existence is perfect and non-egoic, so there is no problem with it. Nirvana is just a state of mind that free of desires, greed, anger and ignorance. Nirvana is the absent of our egoic mind, the ego.
Thousand years later, Buddhism went further East to China and Japan and got lost in translation and time. Now Buddhists are just being fearful of impermanent and suffering so they'd do anything to escape that reality, that act of wanting(desire) to do these things are the cause of dukkha-dukkha (the suffering of suffering) [Genichiro’s case]
This problem is not just for the common people but also the Monastics, nuns and monks. They accept the premises of Impermanent and Dukkha but can’t fathom the concept of non-self (How could them ? because we can’t solve 3D math problems with 2D math knowledge. The same for the egoic mind will never understand the world without its existence). So they believe that with practice they will attain Nirvana, which, in their definition is a realm if Everlasting, Overflowing Joy, and it can happen to them (the self) (otherwise if it can’t be attain by “them”, why bother with the hardship of the monastic life). Thus they “abandoned” the path of the Buddha for “immortality” because they misunderstood the teaching not because they are evil. The Monks in senpou temple are infested with centipede and can’t die is just a physical manifestation of that very metaphor. Today 95% of Buddhist and monks are still on the wrong path because of China’s influences that’ve changed the core teaching of Buddhism.
Finally, if we understand all of that, we know that immortality is the greatest curse for any being. To sever immortality, we need to send the Dragon back to the “West”. A metaphor to send back/reject China’s influences on Buddhism view. Sekiro did become enlighten by sever immortality in game. You finish the game and never boost it on again (No more birth and death for Sekiro).
In short, FormSofware games are good because Miyazaki understands these universal principles and make his games based of them. Everything in Sekiro is closely related to Buddhism and Miyazaki used all of that to make a masterpiece.
Awesome video, loved it
“Those fools on the outside” I think would be other game developers such as activition. Staying in the same CoD painting even though it’s totally rotten. Imagine if they just made a new painting (IP). Edit: and now that I think about it, as weird as it sounds, Faze Jev would be Sister Friede. Also great video!
Damn, this video clearly overcomplicates everything. Hidetaka Miyazaki is waaay too smart to tell a complicated story in such a complicated way. Dark souls as a series is a jurney of redemption and reformation. It is a story of returning to ones roots. To abandon great power and do the right thing. Through 5 installments (ds1, ds2, ds3, bloodborne and sekiro) it tells a story of 5 simple words. This is where the genius lies in all the games, the fact that you need to play all of them to understand but you can scratch the surface without playing any of them as well. Dark Souls tells the story of a reformed orthodox rabbi Bill Clinton.
*Meanwhile, in Bloodborne:* "AYYY, LMAO, YOU WANNA BECOME A GOD!?"
Do you think maybe this is how Miyazaki views all of human civilization itself? Each new form of civilization is ultimately doomed to collapse and our current form is well past it's expiration date maybe? I saw a chart once showing over 80 known human civilizations and they all basically lasted around the same amount of time. However, the ones that were the most advanced and lasted the longest had the greatest crashes.
I always appreciate Rata's respect of the story, and what it took to create this universe. I like how this also makes me more assured about the stopping of the flame on ds3 was the good ending😁😎 Nothing stays the same and when a story is done, you shouldn't cheapen, or ruin it by running it into the ground after it's done.
I really do think that Myazaki is a great storyteller by introducing his concept of lore. I dont remember many lore videos being as prevalent before Dark Souls especially ones about other games, and I think it's been made popular by the lore hunting in the Souls series . When you play dark souls there's things that happen to make you wonder. You may put effort into understanding what's going on, and those findings and theories and the time spent postulating are creative and interesting, and fun! Hence, it becomes precious and a meaningful experience. I think that's a good mark of a storyteller of any form.
I am still a firm believer that Gael's niece is painting the world of Elden Ring. It just makes perfect sense.
I like how there aren't really any villains in the soul's series, just individuals trying to figure out how to exist for a little while longer. I'm sure it won't happen, but it would be interesting if in Elden Ring there is a glimmer of hope for the world instead of certain doom. Even if all things do end.
there's at least 5 endings confirmed. The primary one is the 'obvious' one of doing the will of the two fingers and restoring the elden ring without the missing rune of death that allowed the demigods to die. the others are about getting a 'mending rune' to add during repair from deeper and more hidden NPC quest lines that have various different effects depending on the NPC's motivations. One is restoring the 'original' golden order via Goldmask, but this isn't very 'equal' like to the Tarnished from what we can tell, is it? Just makes you a new god with the order restored. There seems to be one that makes everyone equally cursed, and one that mends the ring with the death rune back.
0:58 - on the left there's a giant with a sword in his head. Never realized that.
Fun fact: Miyazaki is an educated social scientist.
My guess is that he is a hegelian or at least an evolutionist. In his games it's about nobles/dictators that try to preserve their power by suppressing humans/the people because they are afraid of democracy.
Miyazaki's last work (game) will perhaps include a democracy-ending where the player will be able to choose it.
Really enjoyed this!
Wow, congratulations Ratatoskr, you went from being totally unknown to me to one of my favorite youtubers. Those 31k subs don't do you justice. Thank you very much and great job! You nailed it with that ending that borders on hope and keeps the question alive: to link or not to link the flame. (excuse me for possible writings mistakes, English it's no my language)
Is this the canonical reason for all those poison swamps?
Nah Miyazaki just loves making us suffer. He knows we'll slog through it regardless.
The point about dark souls becoming old and ending it before it becomee a shadow of its former self is so spot on. Now look where we are with Elden Ring. Beautiful
Wow! Such a great video !
I think this viedo takes way more relevance with elden ring out there, since its so similar to dark souls and yet so different. Wich is another point i think is important to talk about, that of maintenance, it´s the other way to defeat rot, being able to confront existencial death, but not defeat, being able to kill parts of you that are about expire, shedding your own skin. In reinventing ourselves we kill a part of the thing we call ourselves, so in shedding the skin of dark souls, the dark fantasy medieval ideas remain as elden ring, wich amazingly appears as a theme in elden ring, all the way the demigods choose new deitys to bow to, understanding that the pre established order is about to fade.
Holy shit I’m 16 min in and I realize the video is from 1 days ago I love how dark souls keeps getting love
Beautiful, like always. I should rewatch the old ones.
Fantastic video! You've earned yourself a new subscriber.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Wolf having PTSD, causing his amnesia. Do you believe this theory, and if so how does that impact the overall story and themes?
1:22 As a plain and concise summary of the theme of Dark Souls that was practically perfect.
Glad you noticed! Keep an ear out for the Scarlet Rot in Elden Ring
You've always put out good content. You deserve more subs tbh. But keep it up man :)
THIS CONTENT WOWOWOWOWOWOWO i applaude you!
Great video, as always.
When something/someone is precious to someone, people are not going to necessarily defend the present state of something, but the meaning it had for them, to defend the value of the nostalgic meaning and purpose that influenced the person and the sphere that they created their identities within. That's all they knew and that's all they are interesting to know. Strong emotional attachments gave them happiness and fulfilment in life and the preservation/defending of the old ways, of what something meant to them, is just gratefulness towards the struggles and the bliss of the past, of the what i have become, who i am question. To adapt for the purpose of adapting and survive rather than clinging into your identity and dying within it can be seen as cowardice. The death of Socrates is the best example of a man who dies while following his own convictions, his own ideas, his own attachments. Without them, there is no grounding on earth. It's irrational to emotionally attach yourself so strongly to something, yet without it there are no strong feelings. With duty to the past, with strong feelings attached to the subject of conviction/affection, yeah there is nothing that's not worth lowering yourself to try to defend that, even your own life, it doesn't matter that everything is going to end or not, the whole purpose is to fight for the thing that matters to you.
Good work on this video
One of the best summary of the themes of these games I've heard. Thanks a lot for your great work Ratatoskr.
I wish I could share this with my friends who haven't played the games, so that they could understand my obsession with these worlds, but I fear you need to have played the games to understand those themes and how they are expressed fully.
What is the only thing that never rots?
Darkness.
“Make Ashina Great Again” I see what you did there