Psychology of MIDSOMMAR: What is Gaslighting?
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
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A therapist breaks down Midsommar and asks-is Christian gaslighting Dani?
In today's Psych Cinema, therapist Jonathan Hetterly breaks down the psychological concepts of DIFFERING ATTACHMENT STYLES (3:07), GASLIGHTING IN RELATIONSHIPS (4:45), and RECIPROCATING EMPATHY (7:47).
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#Midsommar #AriAster #Gaslighting 
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Do you think that Christian is gaslighting Dani? Why or why not?
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Absolutely, maybe best demonstrated in the scene where Christian and Dani physically switch places and suddenly Dani feels the need to apologize and do damage control when Christian had fucked up.
He doesn't take any responsibility for his feelings yes he gaslights her she deserves better
Not at all. He was a sacrifice ala the Wicker Man. And I suppose you didn't understand what was really going on. Pelle's fellow villagers went out of quest to find people to bring back fro new fresh non incestual blood and for a May Queen. Who better than a relative from the village? One of Pelle's fellow villager's (ulf) killed Dani's family. It was a sacrifice and if you noticed there was no way that Dani's sister could have set up the murder suicide. So Dani had no reason to ever go back to America. Dani was home when she came to Sweden. The village elder hugs her and even says welcome home to her alone. She smiles at the end because she understands she is home finally.
@@sexytechreviews_ how do you figure that there's "no way" Terri could have carried out the murder-suicide? I supposed there's a chance it was made to look that way, since we don't explicitly see her carrying it out, but it's strongly implied that these were Terri's actions. I do agree that Pelle was sent out to lure in new blood/members into the "family".
@@sexytechreviews_ yeah, although it's open to interpretation, I find there are visual clues that may lead you in that direction, such as the flower's motif on the wallpaper and the bucket of flowers next to the bed of the parent's room at the moment of their death.
One of the earliest scenes in the movie is Christian convincing Dani that he did in fact tell her about Sweden and then had her apologizing to him.
Gaslighting 101 🤦 🤦 🤦 - Mariel
Exactly!
She ended up begging him to forgive her. Christian is self-absorbed, self serving, lazy, unoriginal, and unintelligent. He depends on his friends to make him interesting, this reflected by the fact that he can't pick a thesis topic and actually ends up stealing the topic from his friend. Dani is only useful to him when she's serving him, not the other way around. While Christian is not very intelligent, I don't think that rules out gaslighting. Someone can be a gaslighter without intentionally concocting an evil plan to make his girlfriend feel crazy. I think Christian has completely natural tendencies towards gaslighting, because he doesn't want to put the work into his relationships be it platonic or romantic and wants a quick fix to get out of the sticky webs he's constantly constructing for himself and accordingly getting stuck in. He found a strategy that works for him and employs it naturally, which does not necessarily mean that he's a sociopath, but does mean that he's gaslighting her.
I really liked the video and you have a lot of valid points! I think that if I hadn't been in a relationship exactly like this one, I might agree that he's just a wimp. But there's more to it and Dani wouldn't be crying for forgiveness or reverting to learned behaviors to escape conflict if Christian were a mere wimp.
He was planning on breaking up with her before the trip. That scene summed up a lot about their relationship. She apologized too easily b/c she couldn't stand the thought that he was pulling away. She was too needy to be brave enough to have an honest conversation, trying desperately to be the 'cool girl'. They were both being dishonest, he was smothered and she was insecure in the relationship. He didn't 'have her apologize'. He just pulled away, and then she played on his guilt. I'm not saying she was consciously manipulative, or 'bad', but both of them were unhealthy in their own ways, had different fundamental needs and expectations in the relationship, and never had an honest conversation about it. I get how Christian is being used as the archetype of the gaslighting boyfriend. One who wants the girlfriend, but puts her on the shelf and neglects actually meeting any of her needs. But this video is right, with this specific example, Christian wants out of the relationship, and the situation is holding him emotionally hostage. Dani, too, is the archetype of the codependent person. One who needs companionship so badly, fearing being alone so much, that they are willing to ignore their own needs and expectations to get someone to stay, even if the other person is giving clear signs they want out. I've dealt with both character types. And they are both unhealthy and toxic in relationships. This goes beyond male and female as well.
@@roach7017 He wasn't planning on it, he was debating it. He said so himself, he wasn't sure if he wanted to break up with her because he was afraid he'd want her back. So basically, he doesn't want to be with her, but he doesn't want her to not be available to him either.
It's not needy to expect your long-term partner to inform you in advance that they are leaving for the better part of the summer.
You're not wrong... Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
And would be arriving on her birthday smh
Agree!!!
and 2 weeks after her whole family died- christian was literally all she had left
literally everything that comes out of christian’s mouth during this film is ingenuine
Thanks for the comment, Ari!
when he lit the birthdday candle i died inside yo
Still doesn't mean he's a narcissist. Just because someone is not a good partner or friend doesn't mean they're a narcissist. Simply means they're disingenuine.
ari sánchez all gaslighting all the time
All the more reasons why I don't feel sorry for his fate.
He had no trouble stealing Josh’s thesis and telling him without wavering...
I take it you mean that this is evidence that Christian is *not* a gaslighter. I agree. Christian is repeatedly candid & forthcoming (tho sometimes he needs a little push). This is not a symptom of a gaslighter.
Heavily implied he was a Narcissist and Dani was “borderline”. Both exhibit passive aggressive traits. Plus she had PTSD and no family! That’s why she ran to him because she had literally NOTHING and then the cult sensed her vulnerability and she felt loved for once but it was short coming because eventually that cult would kill her.
@@bluecali4na They are neither. Both Dani and Christian are neurotypical.
Actual Goblin what is that? The definition? I find this stuff fascinating lol
@@bluecali4na Neurotypical means "normal" basically. It would seem both Dani and Christian don't show any signs of a particular personality disorder, at least not one I'm familiar with.
I agree, it is really fascinating.
I think Christian is completely devoid of empathy for anyone. I think he is a narcissist. He treats his friends poorly. He totally throws them under the bus. He keeps Dani around because he might want her back later?! He has no respect for anyone else. It’s all about what makes Christian feel good at the expense of anyone else. And yes, Dani craves empathy above all else. Having been down Dani’s road, that feeling is completely isolating.
New to the channel. I enjoyed this video. Thanks.
Courtney Linn this is the same conclusion I drew. I think Dani obviously has codependency problems and other issues of her own that contributed to their toxic relationship. But I don’t see how anyone can watch this film and no walk away from it seeing how Christian is a complete narcissist. The first time I viewed it I don’t think I fully got that from it so I guess I can’t blame anyone but definitely on the second time I saw all the subtle ways he was truly emotionally bankrupt. Even all his concern seemed forced and phoney upon second viewing.
Thanks so much for sharing! - Mariel
Christian is a narcissist for sure, because he's barely interested in his thesis and he decides he can just take the opportunity and ask the village elders first, although he's completely aware how much of a dick he's to his own friend, who is interested in the subject. I'd honestly not communicate with people like that at all and I'd keep them as far away from me as possible in real life.
I agree, he’s a narcissist, he lacks empathy, I was in a relationship with a narcissist and it instantly reminded me of my ex, they have the same behavior, the gaslighting is very subtle, it almost goes unnoticed, they like to manipulate people and when they’re in a relationship they’re emotionally and psychologically abusive. Just like Christian was with Dani.
I think Christian is likely manipulative and definitely doesn't deal with conflict or emotions well. But I honestly don't think that he wants to be in the relationship and doesn't know how to extricate himself. Dani and Christian should not be together.
The directors cut depicts Christian as very manipulative.
id ike to see that... as much as i see people keep saying he was gaslighting her and manipulative, i never got that. this is all so interesting!!
@@LizNeptune Interesting indeed! We'll have to check out the directors cut too!
I won’t comment any spoilers but one scene left out the theatrical version is an argument between Dani and Christian and he 100% was gaslighting and victim blaming and just all around super manipulative. Aster cut it from the theatrical version because he really wanted people to have more of an objective view of Christian instead of just flat out hating him.
@@narissarivera9658 Interesting stuff! Smart move on Aster's part.
@@narissarivera9658 ~ Ari Aster said this film was a therapeutic "break up" film. I wonder if his ex was a narc. Cannot wait to see the director's cut this weekend!
8:05 >>> Christian really was doing the BEAR minimum. XD
Mad Geo I see what you did there. 😂
My thoughts exactly when I heard that!
ORSO we think xD
😳🐻🔥
That ending was pretty GRIZZLY
"he's not a gaslighter, he's more of a wimp" I WHEEZED oh my god
BRB, gonna go switch out all of our 'lols' with 'i WHEEZED' 😂- Mariel
He more uses stonewalling and ambushing, he does the same to his friends. Interestingly the cult uses these same tactics as part of maintaining control of the outsiders.
What is stonewalling?
@@cameronmitchell4831 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewalling
I'm gonna study this...thanks...and gaslighting too...I think I really need to learn about these things more
I haven't commented or read anybody speak about the deception the cult had...they were very evil and manipulative to such and extreme...starting with the friend who leered his friends to go on a trip he knew was a trick into all of them dying...then the drugging everyone...and how they started to feel the couldn't leave...regardless of what Dani was going through it was crappy that this "cult family" were tricksters to Dani all along. It was all a set up for murder...I love this movie!!!!
I’d say Christian isn’t really a gaslighter but I’d still call him abusive. Maybe I’m too biased because the theatrical cut is more vague about it than the directors cut, which I have watched as well as read the og script. In directors cut *spoilers* when Dani confronts Christian about the trip and he becomes avoidant (threatening to leave) Dani starts to cry, Christian lies and says he was going to surprise her with the trip to be romantic, then scolds her for “ruining the surprise.” Not quite gaslighting but pretty manipulative.
We definitely need to check the directors cut out!
I swear cuts give you so much more context! powerangers had a cut where the red ranger got into it with his dad and and it made the whole snapping the trophy scene so different. Im happy this scene wasn't added, I liked figuring out Cristian was off on my own.
I needa get my hands on the directors cut
Liz Thorson that’s gaslighting. lying to someone and telling them what they feel/know isn’t real or didn’t happen is gaslighting which he does to her multiple times throughout the film but even more so in the director’s cut
@@transmatized he doesn't really tell her, he just alluded to the idea of a surprise, it can't be proven, so it's not the truth but not a lie, it's manipulation. Not gas lighting. My step fucker does this often. All the times I was promised things I would never get because he didn't have his perceived way just to make me feel less than. It's just deception.
The scene where the band of women around Dani start crying and yelling exactly like her is both incredibly interesting and genius. Iv'e never seen that before it was a unique experience. As far as the relationship I praise this movie and the actors for this portrayal, it very much portrays realistically what a couple looks like when things are not working in it and it executes it really believably. I do however see a sense of hidden motives when it comes to Christian, I feel like he fakes the persona of being indecisive and innocent when it benefits him, to be honest I don't think he is really like that at all, and hides his game until he shows it like when he decided he's going to steal his friend's thesis and just tells him straight almost in a threatening way, he may not be as passive as what he makes us think.
Yes, there's definitely more thought that went into Christian's life decisions/manipulative patterns. Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
Okay, here’s a question:
How was chris, who has not decided a thesis and has been, brutally affected by Danis life and possibly now for a long time, 4 years? I think he reached out to his friend, and his friend failed to recognize the fear and hopelessness that chriss has had for 4 years and have been ignoring by drowning in psychedelics and drugs.
Read my original comment, its worth it.
It reminded me of "The Crucible".
Exactly. Men are not stupid; guys like this just play dumb to escape responsibilities. Christian knew exactly what he was doing.
He is gaslighting her, but in a more subtle way. He’s clearly too scared to say “I wanna break up” so he acts stand-offish. When confronted he pretends they have no relationship issues (which they clearly do if he wants to breakup with her) making it seem like Danni is the only one seeing problems. That makes her feel like it’s all in her head.
Christian did not do 'the noble thing'. He wanted out ofthe relationship, but didn't want to dump her in case she was the best he was ever going to get. This is stated at the start of the film; his friends note that he has been complaining all the way through the relationship but just keeps stringing her along. He's a dick.
Yeah.... Christian isn't the best boyfriend... - Mariel
See, the way I saw it was that he WAS going to break up with her, but then the whole tragedy happened and he couldn't. It was bad timing. He was trying to be a good person, but just couldn't help but to feel trapped by circumstance. If you took the whole murder suicide out of the story, THEN I could see Christian as being a horrible person. But WITH the tragedy in the story, I felt like Christian was trapped by trying to be decent.
I think this is potentially a true and common conundrum. I think chriss was fed up and a weakling! Focusing on chriss, he gave his best. His traumatized girlfriend, who has been under deep psych stress was uncomfortably tagging along this eurotrip. Potentially, this was the horror of the movie, a bad relationship, not a bad man.
Read my comment i did before, its interesting.
Lunami Rain You are right, Ari Aster said that was the reason he didn’t wanna break up with her, cause he would look like the bad guy. The Director’s Cut shows even more scenes of him being a dick just cause he doesn’t want to be with Dani anymore
He should've dumbed her and could talk to her like a friend would.
I couldn't stand Christian. I loved Dani, and I could find myself in her. The intense sobbing into her hand- I do that. I could see myself in her when she takes her lorazepam in the opening sequence. Knowing that she is anxious, and believing the fault of that is in her. She gaslights herself, throughout the movie. Just like every anxious woman I know. She isn't needy--i hate that term-- she is trying to take care of herself. She is trying to tell Christian what she needs and feels in a way that she won't push him away, and it felt like she was never feeling heard. Dani is the best, and I just wanted happiness for her.
Thanks so much for this comment!
Dani is me 😭😭😭😭
Thank you!! I feel exactly the same I totally fell in love with Dani throught the film she was doing a far bit better then I did when I lost my mother. I have anxiety and depression and have been in a shit relationship that reminded me of Christian, I empathized with her 100% I thought she was actually very strong considering what was going on in her life.
I agree!! I hate the terms manipulative and needy because they pathologize peoples inherent needs to either connect or protect themselves. Just because they aren’t normative doesn’t mean they are “evil” which is what people seem to mean when they say those words!!!
Her community has constantly failed her. I would rather live in the Midsommar society than this one.
There is a scene in the director's cut where, in my opinion, Christian shows that he usually gaslights Dani: they are arguing because she wants to leave and he wants to stay. When she sees there is no way she is going to change his mind, she tells him that he doesn't love her anymore and he goes crazy. He tells her that it doesn't have anything to do with him wanting to stay and that her, having details with him (like giving him a bouquet of flowers), are her way of constantly remind him that he is not good enough for her. She's like what are you talking about, I was just being nice. And Christian tells her something like oh yeah, you are the self-denied altruist and I'm the paranoid dick AGAIN. Which makes me think that Christian did that all the time, make her feel guilty because she loved him selflessly and he didn't love her back, he tried to make her think that she was crazy by thinking that he didn't love her just because "she was giving too much", loving him too much, caring about others too much. And while he didn't exactly say "you are ridiculous and dramatic", his words and tone made it feel like that was his message. Christian didn't want to face the fact that he was a dick for not letting her go. Maybe he was afraid of being without her too, that's why he wanted to keep her around. I don't know.
Gaslighting usually is a manipulation tactic where an individual is seeking control of a situation/someone else, so you're right on the money! I'm sure Christian was afraid of being without her too!
Shrink Tank He is afraid of letting her go but for the wrong reasons one of his lines is “What if I want her back” not as in he loves her and misses her but as in him being in a relationship with her for so long he doesn’t want to go through the effort of doing that again
@@cedarmay4245 Exactly!
@@cedarmay4245 I think it's even more than "what if I want her back" and goes into his fear of being the "bad guy" in a situation. We see that several times with how he interacts with his friends as well. Rather than saying "I want to do my thesis here and possibly work together because I am having problems finding direction in my life, and I need help and guidance" to his friend who obviously is VERY interested in the subject matter and the college course, he goes behind his back to Pele to make it look as though it had already been decided. This forces his friend to either provide that support for him or abandon him. Which allows Christian to either get his needs met, or give him a scapegoat in his friend for why his needs AREN'T met (aka "it's because my friend is arrogant and selfish, and refuses to share anything and it isn't my fault.").
He doesn't want to be seen as someone who is being selfish and that leads to him acting selfishly in a manipulative and passive agressive way, rather than stating his needs clearly and dealing with people possibly disagreeing or thinking that he's wrong. If he leaves Dani, he will look like a jerk. But if he treats Dani poorly and forces HER to leave HIM (while also arguing with her about why they should stay together), he is the victim and not the perpetrator. I think Shrink Tank is right in that it boils down to being very conflict avoidant.
As someone who has had that done to me I felt so guilty as my mental and physical health was depleting. They made me choose them or myself and when I chose myself I was called selfish even though the fact they wanted me to choose was selfish in itself
I love how this film depicts such a nuanced, complex, REAL relationship. I don't think he's a gaslighter, but he's a lazy/weak guy whose too lazy/weak to break up with her and too lazy/weak to be there for her. He's treading along, looking out for himself and stringing this poor girl along for too long. I use lazy/weak and can't choose one because I'm not sure. One of those traits imo.
Absolutely! Real people are flawed, and so are these characters. Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
To be fair, it would be hard to break up with someone after their entire family had essentially died
@@edgymoji8260 but they've been together for over 3 years. He's had more than enough time to break up with her, but chose not to in case he "still wanted her later on", like she's just an object he can use when he has nothing better around and set aside when he does.
I think people miss the fact that he has been checked out for 1 year at the start of the movie. The relationship was 3.5 years long at that point. He had to deal with Dani's sister's extreme bipolar episodes, and Dani's anxiety problem(shes on ativan) for 2.5 years before he decided he wanted out. Nobody seems to consider that he may really wish he was strong enough to handle all of the problems, and that may be why he is conflicted. He can't handle what she brings to the table, but he wishes that he could. She says herself that he is always there for her, he always provides emotional support, he never asks for emotional support in return, and she has never seen him cry in their 3.5 year relationship.
Also, because of the constant emotional turmoil Dani is in (before her family dies) due to her sister's bipolar disorder and her own anxiety problem, it makes sense to me that he would have a hard time finding an appropriate moment to break it off in the year leading up to the movie. He probably feels he can't leave because of all the emotional support she relies on him for prior to the start of the movie. His douchy friends probably have an issue with her because she is constantly calling him up and preventing him from hanging out because she needs so much support.
Respectfully, I think you're giving Christian too much credit. He may not be a gaslighter, but he's *insanely* manipulative and emotionally abusive. When Dani finds out about his trip and feels hurt that she didn't know about it sooner, rather than apologizing to her or even just explaining why he didn't tell her, he makes himself the victim in the conversation by acting sullen and picked on and even non-verbally threatening to leave the room which he knows full well will force Dani, because of the deep grief and loneliness she's feeling, to back pedal and make a plea for him to stay. He manipulates her into apologizing and assuming blame for the conflict when it's entirely his fault, and he does it very much on purpose. It's a deliberate tactic that he uses to get what he wants from Josh as well, which tells me that it really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he has been wanting to break up with Dani. While his laziness and lack of effort may be due to his no longer being invested in the relationship, the manipulation seems like a pattern that has probably been present within the relationship from the very beginning. As for Dani, I don't find her to be smothering or passive-aggressive at all. Christian is all she has left now that her family is gone, so of course she'd want to join the trip to Sweden, if for no other reason than that to stay behind would leave her completely alone with her grief. As for her poor communication with Christian, she's really just attempting to maneuver his manipulations in order to make him stay with her, which she likely has been doing the whole time they've been together, not because she's passive-aggressive but because she has low self-esteem and doesn't realize that there are plenty of WAY better guys out there who would want to be with her. And wow, I think I just wrote a novel here. lol Sorry to go on and on. Thanks for the vid and the discussion, man. Really fascinating stuff!
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment! Appreciate your perspective. Both parties are absolutely guilty of unhealthy behaviors in this relationship, but ultimately Christian's manipulation and emotional abuse is the thing that pays the price in the end. - Mariel
You're projecting
@@ShrinkTank That's for sure, and no matter what else I think about it, I certainly think that price was too high. lol I mean it makes for a powerful and dramatic ending to a movie, but holy crap, right?
slivertoe Never undermine your own opinion or apologise for having something to say. Enjoyed you comment. Just dismays me that women feel the need to apologise for sharing their thoughts. A dude would never do that. You have the right to take up as much space as you want, and write as long as you want! www.inc.com/amy-morin/women-really-do-apologize-more-than-men-heres-surprising-reason-why-and-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-self-esteem.html
@@ShrinkTank I disagree that they are 'both' unhealthy - Aside from the ending, of which I can't help but feel was a metaphor for her letting go of all of her ties to dealing with a toxic relationship - I think she was doing her best to survive extreme grief, and had every right to her emotions and her need for comfort. Anyone in her position would be in need, that isn't a sociopath. If we're analyzing the very beginning of the movie, that is... However, yes, the ending was extreme (to say the least) and clearly unhealthy - but, again, like many others, I feel it was a metaphor, and so it's difficult for me to take it seriously. Moving on to the relationship aspect however, I strongly feel it was manipulated by Christian. Dani was going through crippling emotional circumstances that would easily have anyone think unclearly - thinking unclearly from grief however, does not equate to being unhealthy, it simply means, you are grieving. And yes, she may have needed him from the very beginning as well, with her issues with her bipolar sister, however, the situation obviously proved to be a serious one. One of which was met with a dangerous amount of negligence - had she of not been so distraught as well as manipulated by Christian, and had followed her instincts, she may have been able to save her family. People keep referring to her as 'unhealthy' because she was 'needy' of him - however, is it really 'needy' of someone to expect their partner in life to care about their needs when they are going through extreme trauma? Especially when that partner continually manipulates them and makes them question themselves as to whether they truly have a reason to doubt whether that person loves them or not? She was quite plainly in a deep state of trauma and confusion and being lied to by everyone around her - including his friends that pretended to like her when in fact they did not. That does not make her unhealthy in my eyes, it makes her manipulated and confused as well as deeply traumatized. Unhealthy in my eyes is having a characteristic that has nothing to do with outside circumstances - it is a personality trait, like being a sociopath, as an extreme example. But her crippling mental situation all came from very real and very serious events that were shaping her ability to cope and function... although you can continually see that she still tries her best to function in a way that others expected of her regardless of her horrible situation.
In my opinion, from the way the relationship was portrayed in the theatrical cut, Christian was not a narcissist or a gaslighter, he was just a guy in a bad position.
He loved Dani and didn't want to see her hurt and couldn't face hurting her, but didn't love her enough to want to stay with her. Whether this was abusive is complex; not on Christian's end, but it resulted in an abusive situation for Dani.
In the same way, Dani needed way more emotional support than is reasonable, and expected all of that to come from Christian. Was it abusive? Well, Dani was in a situation beyond her control where she reasonably needed that level of support. But on Christian's end it resulted in an effectively abusive situation. Both were being abused by a person who wasn't abusive...
Now that's clever writing.
I’m kinda fascinated that you could call a girl who just lost her sister and parents in a murder-suicide who is also in the process of losing her long term partner...needy.
Wow. That’s like lvl 5000 gaslighting, very topical.
I agree never in this movie not even once she’s needy
I agree that Christian did not gaslight Dani but this did not make justice to how awful he was to her. He only did the bare minimum when it came to being there for her. He always tried to invalidate her feelings and worries. Sometimes more subtly, like when he tries to convince her the email from her sister is not a big deal, which could be just to calm her down but honestly for me it came off as trying to diminish the problem because he was """tired of her drama""" - which is made clear considering she mentions he had said the email was weird before and, when we see the content of the email, it is clearly alarming coming from a bipolar person (who, therefore, could have severe depression episodes and suicidal thoughts). He even puts the blame on her for giving too much attention to her sister, as if you should not worry about and check on a family member who has a serious mental illness. He clearly seems just tired of her family issues instead of empathetic, only staying by her side and supposedly being there for her because it would seem morally wrong not to. Perhaps the moment that bothered me the most was when they come home from the party and Dani confronts him about the trip to Sweeden. It is obviously extremely weird if a partner who has been with you for almost 4 years decides to travel to another country and hides it from you. Yet, when she rightfully asks him why he did that, he avoids answering and tries to turn the situation around making her feel bad. He tries to simply leave instead of answering and acuses her of attacking him (the fucking audacity!!) when she is just asking a fair question any partner would ask in her place. He succeeds to the point she apologizes for asking. Because of her need for love and attention, specially after the death of her family, she puts up with all of this to keep the relationship going and even feels guilty for feeling sad and worried. He is dismissive of her very valid feelings all throughout the film. When she witnesses the two elders' suicides and is obviously very moved by them and wants to leave, although he seems genuinely worried at first, he quickly tries to make it not as bad as it is and says they should stay (it ends up being good for her to stay because she finds comfort and people who truly empathize with her but, regardless, someone who really cared would have made it more evident and at least considered leaving. Your girlfriend who just suffered the loss of her family witnessed two suicides, for God's sake). When she is worried about the fact that the guy from London left without his girlfriend and didn't even tell her, which is clearly weird, he tries to brush it off and says it must have been nothing. It always felt less like "Oh no, this person I love and care for is feeling bad" and more like "Ah, god, she's sad again, here we go".
Honestly for me one of the biggest messages of this film is that even though being in a relationship while being mentally ill/dealing with trauma or family issues/etc is inevitably hard, someone who actually cares about you will genuinely empathize with you and take your concerns and feelings seriously. You shouldn't put up with people who try to throw your worries and suffering under the rug and feel tired of them instead of worried about them. When you are mentally ill, worried about a stressful situation or feeling said, it's not your fault and you should NEVER be made to feel guilty about it. If someone actually loves you, you are not a burden for them. They place the necessary amount of importance on your pain and guide you out of it.
Eu não costumo ler comentários do tamanho de teses. Pelo menos não até o final. Mas o seu foi interessante.
Por falar nisso, o diretor, Ari Aster costuma dizer que nada representa melhor a frivolidade da vida do que duas pessoas brigando por causa de uma tese de faculdade. XD
Eu acho que o Chris via na tese dele o futuro, e na Dani, o passado. E, porque ele é... desculpa... era um tremendo a-hole, ele não teve interesse em fazer sacrifícios por alguém que ele não amava mais.
Namorei com uma pessoa que sofre de transtorno bipolar. Alguém com quem tenho amizade até hoje, porque eu não sou um a-hole. Porém, honestamente, nunca a consegui guiar pra longe da dor, não importando o que eu fizesse. Eu aprendi que tentar animar a pessoa que está passando por depressão, ou ficar sugerindo soluções pros problemas dela, só a irrita. Mas eu sentia que fazia uma diferença positiva quando dava o ouvido que ela precisava pra desabafar, o ombro que ela precisava pra chorar, o abraço que ela precisava pra não se sentir só.
Como você disse, o que a pessoa precisa é encontrar comforto em quem verdadeiramente empatiza com ela.
Você já assistiu uma série chamada "You're the Worst"? É hilária, mas tem uns momentos mais sérios que tocam muito nesse assunto. Principalmente na segunda temporada. Recomendo.
Já que eu estou escrevendo uma tese aqui também, tenho que falar que o que me impressionou é como MidSommar é um filme em que os vilões (sem querer julgar, mas é uma comunidade de assassinos, XD) conseguem tudo o que querem e vencem no final... usando o poder do amor. XO
Me explodiu a mente!
Você já viu isso num filme antes?
This video is NOT a justification for his actions lol.
@@resurgingflame I know! I agree with everything the video says, I just thought it didn't cover everything about the character and there were some interesting things worth talking about
@@resurgingflame Definitely not a justification, just an insight into why he may have acted how he did.
Love this response, feel the exact same way and had the same first impressions while watching this film. I do believe the film had a happy ending, Dani finally has a family again and will be with people who are genuinely invested in her emotional needs.
Dawg, you gotta watch the argument scene at night that is in the directors cut. He is literally the definition of gaslighting
We'll be sure to check it out, dawg. Thanks for the comment!
I agree. Even if you don't see that scene, he is a gas lighter. It's just very subtle. When he says "you don't think I'd forget your birthday did you?" ... That's gaslighting. In truth, he did forget.
Good video but I really disagree with the claim that he's not a gaslighter.
In terms of gaslighting, I think the only character guilty of that would be Pelle! He keeps bringing up Dani's family trauma to essentially manipulate her into going to the festival slash when she's looking ready to leave he brings it up again to keep here there.
Pelle definitely had some manipulative behaviors as well. Seems like no character in this film is innocent... Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
There are 2 scenes in the director's cut where it becomes more clear the
ways that Christian is being manipulative and abusive towards Dani. One
is an extended version on their argument at Dani's apartment, when he
comes with the whole idea of inviting her to go to Sweden as a romantic
surprise (when he was clearly talking to the other guys about picking
Swedish girls on the trip some scenes earlier). The other scene is
another argument after a night ritual in Harga, where he acuses Dani of
being manipulative trying to give him "more love than he could give
back". He constantly twist her words because he knows how insecure she
is and how she has the tendency to blame herself like he's always right.
I don't if that classifies strictly as gaslighting but I know how
abusive that is.
We've gotta check out the director's cut! Thanks for the comment. - Mariel
i got really horrible vibes from christian the whole movie. though i did start to feel bad for him near the end. but in the beginning of the movie, him talking to dani, encouraging her to ignore the things her sister said, not worry about it, etc. he even pins the blame somewhat on her saying by giving her sister attention, that she would be feeding into the behavior... stuff like that. and any time she would bring up her thoughts on their relationship (dani and christian's), he would mislead her and twist the situation. it's like he wanted to be in a relationship but he didn't want to bother with the needs of someone else. it's not unreasonable to expect your SO to tell you that he's leaving the country for three months, but he twisted that into trying to make it seem like dani was overreacting, when, in my opinion, she was not. and it's not noble of him to invite dani, because he even told his friends that he was only inviting her because he thought she would decline. again, manipulating dani. and i do think christian was trying to control the relationship in that, he didn't want put forth the effort of caring about dani's needs, but he also did not want dani to leave, so he just kept putting in the bare minimum effort and misleading her to drag things out and lead her on.
@Tina Louise, I too felt that Christian, already having determined that he *had* to remain with Dani after her sister’s murders and suicide, decided it best to engage in only the bare minimum investment required for him to continue being her boyfriend. That way (given the horrific nature of Dani’s tragedy), Christian wouldn’t get that *total jerk* label thrust upon him. On the other hand, he clearly isn’t equipped to support Dani emotionally, either. Sticking with one another is not doing anything good for either of them.
Eesh.
@@kimrodriguez1698 but if Christian just decides to break up after Dani's tragic encounters, is he being an asshoke?
She was not overreacting, she was expressing her wish to be informed of things that could potentially have some sort of impact on their relationship, such as a 3 month trip to another continent. And when he invites Dani to go along it looks like he just had the idea at that moment, just to get away as a romantic partner planning a surprise trip. That whole scene is so disgusting, he keeps constantly acting like she's trying to pick a fight, and she just wants to speak her mind.
I agree
You can gaslight anyone for any reason, including trying to get out of a relationship.
Absolutely. Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
Umm... Key fact that we disagree with is how she got on the trip. The guy from Sweeden WANTED her to go. He says that Dani is the one he was MOST looking forward to join them.
Excellent video and assessment. I enjoyed it very much!
For me, the point of no return was after Dani made up her mind that she appreciated the emotional comfort the cult offered, and was otherwise basically all alone in the world. If she lets Christian live, he would constantly be trying to get her to leave with him. Or, if he got out, he would likely rat out all the deaths to the police, and get the whole cult in trouble. So, I believe in those moments of decision, she ultimately chose to protect her new family, and only source of emotional freedom by eliminating the last person who could have taken it all away.
In fairness, he was also thoroughly paralyzed; I honestly saw it as a mercy killing at that point. He was zero threat.
Zaftique i took it that he was only temporarily paralysised from some kind of medication that would have worn off ?!
@@e11esounds I'd have to watch it again, but if I remember, it looked like they had really smacked him one on the back of the head, so my assumption had been C1 spinal injury.
I think gaslighting would be more of Pelle towards Dani. The constant seeds of doubt toward Christian in order to open her mind to other possibilities. Especially knowing that she would be under the influence and remember these things.
funny how most men seem convinced dani was the emotionally needy/manipulative problem in the relationship and women want to paint christian as the emotionally absent/manipulative problem in the relationship, while i didn't see either.. obviously it's not a good relationship, but i could easily see how two good people would/could behave the way they do under the circumstances.. boy knows he needs to end the relationship, but doesn't know how; girl senses he wants out, but doesn't want to let go.. just a typical young couple playing out a dynamic young couples have been playing out for thousands of years..
Interesting perspective! Thanks so much for your comment.
I am a female and I had nothing but dislike for dani because I really hate emotional manipulators and her selfishness. He just needs to cut her off and shut her down- maybe then she would become stronger instead being a vampire. He does try and he does have empathy when this hateful b*tch murders him because if she cant have him then no one else can in her hateful evil mind. she is not a good person and that is missed here. she may be a covert narc in my opinion
@@copperfronts1679 Typical. Nothing to see here.
It scares me that people normalise such behaviour and claim it`s been happening for thousand of years... it probably has been yes, but does this make it ok? I was on the receiving end of one such relationship where my ex acted in a similar manner. It destroyed my mental health and I now am trying to manage life with PTSD. People just think -= oh well, bad relationships happen. They don`t know and cannot imagine the devastating effect this kind of behaviour leaves on ones psyche if they haven`t experienced this for themselves.I would go as far as to say that Christian is on the narcissistic personality disorder spectrum and Dani, clearly is dealing with codependency. These two factors are like water in hot oil.
H. Ellis ew. What a fucking trash opinion.
I think you can still want to control people without wanting them, if you're pathologically excusing your behaviour by making another person seem crazy, pushing someone else under the bus etc. I feel like Christian may not be purposefully gaslighting but he's giving the same results
Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
I keep thinking to myself, "What's the alternative?"
At this point, ending the relationship would just send this woman who just suffered a tremendous life-tragedy and has not been able to properly process that grief out by herself without so much as a support structure.
I like it how Jonathan says 'if you haven't seen Midsommar, pause and come back', as if you won't return a psychically altered person after having watched it.
Christian is a classic narcissist. Painting Dani as the problem is so very typical of a narcissist. Thanks for playing
Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
ACCURATE.
never knew exactly what the term meant, but hearing you explain it i was like oooohh shit, there's a word for what my first ex would always do!
We 'loved' this comment not because of what your ex did, but because that realization was probably really validating to you. :-) Thanks for the comment!
That guy (Christian) was so into himself that he even ignored lots of red flags that happened right before his eyes.
Absolutely. Thanks for the comment!
Dani was also very into herself. Shes the typical self absorbed white liberal female.
@Charlotte Buchanan her entire family died. She's allowed to mourn and take care of herself
She was also the one to give flowers to her bf and confront him gently about issues
in one director's cut scene about the ancestral tree, christian was laughing about the tree being pissed on. literally lacks empathy just like his friends
We've gotta check out this director's cut!
He’s a sociopath narcissist archetype
The words 'narcissist', 'gaslighting', and 'borderline' are extremely overused and thrown around as of late. Its become popular for some reason, even though a lot of people have no experience, or education regarding these terms. The characters in the movie, in my opinion, are neither...at least they don't display any qualities or symptoms to make us believe they do have a personality disorder. Just because Christian is a bad partner and friend, and is disingenuine and mean; does NOT make him a narcissist...and just because Dani appears needy, is emotional, and is going through trauma; doesn't mean she's borderline, or even that she has PTSD. We need to be aware of the symptoms of these traits. Look them up, educate ourselves. I think watching a movie about two characters doesn't really give us enough information about their personalities, unless the symptoms are extremely prevalent. Just the fact that so many people are merely speculating means there isn't enough information or symptoms. We need to stop throwing these words around, especially in negative context. I'm borderline, and it hurts whenever I see someone throwing these words around...especially about people they see in a negative light...or when people call borderlines narcissist, or vice versa. I commonly see people saying women are borderline because they are "manipulative," "cold-hearted," etc...and the same about men being narcissistic when someone has had a bad experience or relationship with them, and its very sad. We have to realize that everyone, even people with personality disorders, are different, we all have different personalities. Most borderlines are not manipulative, or are they narcissistic...they are very insecure and need validation, but they don't like hurting people. I would much rather hurt myself than someone else. There is so much misconception about these disorders, and I'm glad the guy that made this video is talking about them and informing us...although a lot of non-professionals are still here in the comments section trying to tell him he's wrong, that Christian is a narcissist because "literally nothing he says is genuine.." which does NOT mean he is a narcissist...it just means he is not a genuine person...just because someone has unfavorable qualities does not mean they have a personality disorder...
Seeing as how this film is fictional, we clearly cannot diagnose the characters with personality disorders. This analysis is merely a way to take a deep dive into the film's work, and discuss characteristics that are reminiscent of certain psychological concepts to help educate the audience. That said, you're 100% correct in that these terms are hot button topics these days. I wonder what it says about the times we're living in? Thanks so much for sharing your perspective! - Mariel
I agree with these terms being overused. Dani was going through grief and all the depression and anxiety that goes along with it. Christian was a selfish and lacked empathy: that doesn't necessarily make him a narcissist: just emotionally unintelligent.
pegacorn13 I saw it as him being burnt out with her baggage right before she got even more in the form of her family dying
I definitely need to see the director's cut. I find it interesting that most commenters that have seen the director's cut agree Christian was gaslighting her and commenters that only saw the theatrical version agree with the video. This shows the power of editing and how you can change a character on screen with choosing what characteristics and scenes to show.
Absolutely! What a great point. Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
Esteban Ruiz thisssssss
I just can't agree with the fact that he's just avoiding her-- he tells her he loves her, reassures her, invites her with him, pretends he'll wait for her to feel comfortable... he's doing the pull-push where he confuses her by pretending he wants to be there half the time.
When his buddies ask him why he doesn't just end it already, his answer is: "what if I want her back and can't get her back, what if I regret it?"
That's a narcissist who's scared of losing supply and has no alternate source.
Pretty basic narcissism really.
I cant even comprehend how emotionally relieving it is for someone to actually put Dani’s situation in motion. From the very start of the movie, i already felt a connection with Dani and her situation. I never lost anyone. But, i know how it feels to be so anxious in a relationship and let it take over your days. The perspective of her depression is well-played, too. The scene that stuck out to me the most is when Dani was crying in the plane.. i started to feel emotionally heavy. I feel like they wanted to put that scene in there to show how depression seriously isolates you, and makes you feel like your stuck and have no where to go. Another scene is when the girls were surrounding her and crying with her, not giving her space to breathe, therefore making the situation worse. Again, the isolation just really creeps on you, even from this movie. I could say this movie IS what depression feels like to me. Never-ending torture and no place to escape or hide. There are many ways to interpret this movie. But, i felt better after watching this movie, in some weird way.
i absolutely think christian gaslights dani. theres an entire scene which i personally thought was meant to expose the very act to the audience + make us think about any instances we ourselves experienced it and mightve brushed it off. the scene where dani confronts him about the trip, he both downplays his lack of communication and accuses her of overreacting. that is absolutely a form of gaslighting, in my eyes. it makes dani feel even further that her own feelings and needs are @ fault when shes literally asking for the bare minimum from someone shes been close with for four years
For sure. Both characters have their flaws, but Christian definitely shows plenty of gaslighting behaviors! Thanks for the comment. - Mariel
Also not to mention that he enables her to isolate herself when she’s having panic attacks rather than validate her feelings with her. Christian says he’s “tired of all her drama” as if her trauma was something she could control. Even Dani’s phone call to her friend saying that she’s afraid of Christian viewing comforting her as a chore shows how Christian does not even try to give her any emotional leverage.
Christian reminded me of my ex, a narcissistic as well. I used to be gaslighted, manipulated, emotionally and psychologically abused.
So sorry to hear that. Now that you're on the other side of that, you're giving yourself space for personal growth and healing!
God I can’t stop obsessively watching videos and researching this movie and trying to get people to watch it!?!?
This movie had the same impact on us! Glad to know we're not alone. - Mariel
I think it kind of depends on how you're defining gaslighting. Sure, Christian didn't try to manipulate her to DO something for him (or however you worded it in the video), but he definitely uses gaslighting as a destabilization tactic in the relationship (this is really evident in one particular scene in the director's cut, but if you look at the whole of his behavior, it's there, too). Him being distant and subtly rejecting her plays off of her need for validation and her constant insecurity, and it could be argued this is a way that he reels her in for the attention and drama. He may say explicitly that he wants out of the relationship to others, but many narcissists will say that to friends for the attention of it and to paint their partner in a negative light. It could be argued that he constantly dismisses everything she does/thinks/feels to make her more and more dependent on the small droplets of affection he gives from time to time, and it's possible that we see a weak and insecure person because he turned her into this after 4 years of abuse. Many people with trauma, including myself, found the film oddly cathartic and I believe the director has stated that he saw the relationship & Christian's personality along these lines. As someone who has been abused in this way, it's frustrating that it can be so misinterpreted others and really disheartening how people in these comments are blaming Dani for the entire situation.
Thanks for the comment!
It's defined by the actual definition.
christian was trapped in a relationship and perhaps afraid to hurt her or struggled with avoidance, but he made a lot of bad decisions throughout the film. and none of it seems overly excusable. the first you see is that he convinced himself that dani was the overall problem in the relationship and continued that narrative to his friends. perhaps she was to an extent, but his lack of empathy will only worsen her need for support. he’s in a long term relationship like i dont?
then his future actions cause you to ask if he wasn’t just a bad boyfriend, but a bad person. he doesn’t just hurt dani, he hurts his friends by stealing one’s thesis idea and then completely retracting his loyalty when they go missing. he refuses to see the odd occurrences around the commune, refuses to ask why people are going missing. he may have been drugged when he slept with the other woman, but he had been interested for quite some time, and the ritual was just tradition so he doesn’t even have hypnosis on his side of the argument. this movie has an interesting way of highlighting the worst in all of the outsiders when they enter the commune, and christian is no different. each person sacrificed did something that was seen to be very wrong in the eyes of the commune EXCEPT christian because it was up to us to analyze his actions and inactions and question or understand why he was the centerpiece of the sacrifice. it’s interesting how he does wrong as well. his actions when explained out loud (or in a youtube comment section lol) never seem overly malicious and really they’re not, but it’s the intent behind them. it’s the fact that you can see what he’s like on the inside when he chooses to do these things. i really felt that i saw the person the creators were trying to show through his actions. he may not have pissed on an ancestral tree or took pictures of a sacred text, but he seemed to be shittier than any character put in the spotlight by far, even if he wasnt a prime example for gaslighting
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment! - Mariel
I agree with you that Christian was a horrible person and that he was interested in Maja from the get go, but Christian was clearly raped in that scene. He was drugged out of his mind and in shock afterwards. Just because someone shows interest in another person, doesn’t automatically mean they should be taken advantage of when they are way out of their mind to consent. Let’s say Christian was a woman eyeing a handsome Swedish guy, does that make it okay for people to give her a drink laced with drugs so she’d be more willing to have sex? The dude was a jerk, but he met a fate he did not deserve.
Great video 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 something that struck me is Dani is obviously a co-dependent. She’s a people pleaser to the point that she’s putting herself in severe emotional discomfort to make Christian love her. She’s apologizing to him during arguments for bringing up valid reasons that she’s upset (planning a trip without even mentioning it, him not wanting to leave after seeing the elder suicides) because she’s feels that if they’re “getting along” (even if that’s simply not verbally expressing anger or frustration) and he’s happy then she’ll feel happy. That’s the plight of a co-dependent, they give everything (in an unhealthy way) and often get very little in return. That and they will always attract users who will take everything from them because mentally and emotionally healthy people cannot flourish in that kind of relationship. I agree that Christian is not a gaslighter, but he’s emotionally immature and has learned how to manipulate Dani to get what he wants. He knows rejecting her is really the worst thing he could do to her and he plays that to his advantage. In the end, while Christian IS an asshole, it’s a toxic relationship on both ends. IMO, obviously ✌🏼
Love this explanation! Thanks for commenting. :-)
My dude, I totally agree with you. I’m so glad finally someone else can separate gaslighting from many other serious issues. It’s sad that so many people are calling it what it isn’t; it hurts many people, like me, who have actually been through this stuff. Let’s focus on the real issues. Thank you for the video🙏🏻
I feel like the scene where the trip to Sweden is discussed in Danni’s apartment shows Christian gaslighting her. Like she states it’s a big deal and tries to get him to empathize and see that by asking how he would feel if she had done that to him. Instead of actively discussing the problem of this, Christian states it’s not a big deal and threatens to leave. This holds Dani emotionally hostage by Christian basically and indirectly telling her “if you get upset I’m just going to leave you here because I don’t want to try and solve this problem with you”. It forces her to carry the emotional burden of suppressing her very valid feelings of anger so he won’t leave. In addition, he knows she is incredibly emotionally vulnerable having just lost her family, so holding her emotionally hostage is incredibly easy at this point and time. I feel like he has moments where he gaslights her, whether it’s telling her she’s over reacting about the trip or telling her she’s over thinking and worrying for nothing over missing members of their visiting party. I do also think he’s incredibly lazy and a terrible boyfriend to her. However we don’t consider that he has probably been having to do a lot of emotional labor in the past for Danni, as it is stated she should be calling her therapist at times and not her boyfriend. Treating your partner as a therapist is also an inappropriate attachment style that can lead to one’s partner feeling extremely burned out over time. I feel like he obviously was treating her like crap, but the reality is- he needed to breakup with her. She should have worked with her therapist on healthy relationship attatchement styles- and they could have both gone off and most likely have had successful relationships with other people more fitted for each of them.
On a side note, while I don’t condone cheating, I do feel like the sex scene with Christian almost felt rape like to me. He was drugged and taken advantage of. It seemed like he wasn’t totally comfortable during the sex scene and appeared very disgusted afterwards. We don’t see him actively pursuing the red head girl or looking to cheat. He straight up states he’s not comfortable with the situation when told he was approved to “mate” with the red head woman (I forgot how to spell her name I’m sorry!). While Danni is devastated, Christian also appears equally as devastated; shown searching for Danni after the rape/mating ritual- and is unable to find her.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment! Yes, we can only imagine how different this movie would've been had they both received some therapy... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - Mariel
we can see in the director's cut that he does, in fact, chase after Maja.
Gosh Kristyn, this is an excellent analysis. I completely relate to Dani, so it feels really bad to admit, but she was overly dependent! Christian was a bad boyfriend, and perhaps a selfish person... but your comment doesn't overlook Dani's poor choices and I appreciate that.
Jamie Rogers-Sites
Thank you! I think it’s not at all bad to be supportive of a partner, but taking care of someone and having to consider them all the time is emotional labor. People can’t keep it up forever. I work as a nurse and I love taking care of others- but it’s well known in our field that to take the best care for others; you need to take breaks and take care of yourself. Otherwise you end up burned out and crabby- I relate to Christian because it’s how I feel when I’m tired working too many days in a row- crabby and low frustration tolerance.
I was slightly uncomfortable with how often Dani was called needy and accused of hijacking things in this video.
I think when people call what Christian does in the theatrical release "gaslighting" they're recognizing signs of being abused in Dani's behavior. She's completely yielding and self effacing throughout and when she seems "needy" and needs reassurance, I see that as her having become acclimated to a relationship where her partner is cold, secretive, and accusatory (his treatment of the thesis seems like it's indicative of some narcissistic tendencies, and inability to recognize his own wrongdoings) at unpredictable times. "Neediness" is a reaction to insecurity, which is hung over people's heads in abusive relationships and at this point in Dani's life the threat of break up also means isolation, which would be devastating after losing your whole family. I think Christian is wholly unsympathetic, even outside the director's cut. If we're comparing the two honestly one is evasive because he hates discomfort and responsibility (see the thesis plot point, being unable to make his own decisions in life culminating in the dazed participation in the sex ritual) and one wants a modicum of emotional support from people who should ideally have a little more kindness and decency in them than the murderous Swedish cult, but instead treat her like a downer and a burden for having a tragedy happen to her. Their relationship is broken, yes, but the language here seems to lay the blame on Dani for Christian's actions, which I kinda dislike.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts! - Mariel
@rocktheheist - I completely agree with you. That made me uncomfortable as well. Though it's, I suppose easy to come to that conclusion when you don't have a deeper understanding of what abuse truly looks like - and/or have been on the receiving end of it. She certainly had the characteristics of someone that had spent a lot of time being emotionally beaten down. Though I have to admit, I found it to be a bit distasteful to act like an authority on such emotional complexities when you clearly don't have an Idea of what abuse looks like - speaking of the video.
I would consider Christian a narcissist. He never takes blame for anything and he has no consideration for anyone...for even his own friend, Josh. It’s all about himself and furthering his interests. He does this with little regard for anyone else during the film. When one of the visitors goes missing he doesn’t even skip a beat, he just keeps interviewing the hargra man for his thesis. Any average person would be in the very least curious to concerned as to how someone could go missing. Even continuing his relationship with Dani had less to do with caring about her and more to do with his fear that he might want to keep her around (he mentions this to his friend.) If not narcissistic then very self absorbed in my opinion. He’s emotionally bankrupt. He feigns emotions and concern for Dani but It’s not genuine.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing! - Mariel
I actually blamed him, partially, for Josh's death. He's the one who put Josh under enough pressure for him to do the stupid thing of taking photos of their holy book. There's a good chance that if Christian wasn't such a lazy, inconsiderate idiot and though of his own thesis, Josh wouldn't have felt compelled.
Great to see an actual therapist speak on this. RUclips is full of so many dumb hot takes that vastly oversimplify the relationship between the two leads, but you're the only one that seems to have genuinely paid attention to the what the characters were actually saying and doing throughout the movie. Kudos and great series!
I'm was glad to see the aspect of grief was brought to the table. What an intense film.
Absolutely!
I had an ex who wanted to break up but didn't want to be the "bad guy", so treated me badly on purpose so I'd break up with him. I didn't, at least for awhile, because I had nowhere to go, in a literal sense. Dani has "nowhere to go" in a metaphorical sense. Do you guys think he wants to be dumped?
Nobody has time for games like that 🙄I'm sure Christian feels just as stuck in the relationship as Dani does in a sense. Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
I usually don't with the person that's needy, but in this case she has to be needy in a situation like that. Christian is a simply childish. I can understand that he's not obliged to liking her, but if he doesn't, and he cares for her, he had to break up. I feel his resentment towards her, for feeling like she's putting him in this situation, coupled with his will to avoid confrontation and wailing, has lead him to just go on with the situation, waiting for her to break up eventually and not really caring for what's best for her (even though he know the best thing for her was for him to break up).
He definitely could've made better choices along the way. Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
It’s established he was over her baggage before her family died, whatever that baggage was.
I love all the ideas! Definitely agree on the attachment styles and the impact on this, I find it super interesting the comments and how people see it from different prospective, likely to relate to their own relationships and expectations!
Absolutely! Great perspective there. - Mariel
I love this channel! Great review, thanks. One side note, Dani’s sister did not kill her self and her parents. The cult did. They reveal this during Dani’s dream. It’s subtle but it’s probably one of the many Easter eggs that’s so elusive. 🙂
As for what I thought - I didn’t think much of Christian. But his friends were definitely rah-rahing him on to dump Dani. Which makes sense in the case if their Swedish friend; he appears to win her heart at the end, and I’m assuming he’s the one who murdered the parents. Which makes sense, if you notice the disconnect between Dani’s age and her parents - they’re old enough to be her Grandparents! And as we know at age 72 the cult smashes their face. Anyway.....Dani was such a well developed character, something we rarely see in horror films. I also can’t help but wonder if she suffers from mental illness most of her life, and if this film was a reflection on how poorly we take care of each other / a murderous cult becomes more appealing than normal western society.
Interesting! Hadn't heard about that Easter egg yet...
Great review! I'm amazed by how many of the reviews out there just obliterate the psychological journey of this movie or oversimplify it as a matter of "bad boyfriend betrays girlfriend". I agree with your commentary and I founded pretty disturbing how fucked up things were at the beginning and keep developing along. It seems people felt the first "dark" part a bit gratuitous in terms of what will come later but I find it crucial and well presented. The scene where Danny calls a girlfriend after she already spoke with Christian, for instance. She moves from worrying about the safety of her sister to worrying about her relationship with Christian, which in the face of the circumstances, a possible tragedy (sister), it seems pretty irrelevant. She's not only an emotionally attached person but also a person in need of constant validation which is something that she gets within the cult and the whole "May Queen" thing.
For sure! It makes us wonder how many other movies have elements of gaslighting that were overlooked and brushed off too!
Apparently the director’s cut adds way more to Christian’s mistreatment of his lived ones and friend
That's what we've heard! We've definitely gotta check it out. - Mariel
As a fellow LPC (also MFT) and also big movie and tv guy I love channels that crossover my 2 passions. Keep up the good work bro
Thanks so much, Tom! Appreciate your support. - Mariel
this video is so well produced how does this guy only have 7k subscribers??? i guess i'm here before you blow up
Seeing your bf having sex with someone else would feel like a betrayal, but I wouldn't say he betrayed her, per say. He was VERY reluctant and was drugged so that he'd go through with it. I felt bad for him in the end because, again, he was drugged and couldn't speak, so he was unable to explain to her what happened as they were asking her for the last sacrifice. It's like the Family wanted him to be the last sacrifice so they created a situation where that would happen.
I've only seen the theatrical release, not the director's cut, so maybe I'm missing something, though.
We also need to watch the director's cut! We've heard that it only reinforces the elements of gaslighting. - Mariel
I’ve only seen the directors cut but when Dani wins May Queen the Hargas offer Christian a drink after he spoke with the leaders about if he wanted to engage with one night with Maya, and he says “I’m worried I’ll have a bad trip” then the woman says “just take it” then she walks away, and he could’ve easily poured it out but he drank it instead resulting in all the acts that happened after.. I didn’t feel bad for him at all
I think Christian was raped in that scene but it still does not excuse the way he treats Dani or anyone else in the film though. He's a dumb-ass, selfish jerk with very few, if any redeemable qualities. The more I watch the film, the funnier it gets. Christian is the perfect caricature of a selfish douche.
Honey, he was raped. He was violated, drugged and raped. Say it how it really is.
That scene which you described as a band of women crying alongside Dani looked like a birthing scene to me.
I think more than the women empathizing with Dani, they were there as extensions of her, of the divine feminine manifesting to help her close a chapter in her life, to help her come out stronger from the metaphorical death and loss of Christian... which later turns into a very real death. hehe
And the reason i think it was meant to be portrayed similar to a birthing scene, was because this cult's philosophy was based on nature and how every death brings forth new life (hence the suicide/sacrifice theme). She experienced the pain of having to birth a new life, one without christian
However, i do feel that this cult family was the other extreme of what Dani's family was. So the women empathizing makes complete sense too. I think the movie is just trying to remind us of our roots, of our nature. (also why i think Dani was turning into grass/flowers throughout the whole movie).
Avoidant and Anxious styles do look extremely gaslighty though! Fun review
They were just appealing to her, in order to lure her into the cult. It was nothing genuine.
Thanks for this
Super late response to this movie (which I absolutely love); but I empathized heavily with Dani, almost to the point of being triggered myself. I have diagnosed Borderline personality disorder, major depressive disorder, anxiety, and PTSD, partly due to my father dying suddenly and tragically when I was 20 (it's been 7 years). Her cries and wails, her taking the blame when Christian is awful toward her, her dissociating during the suicide ritual and just being completely checked out when she's literally up to her neck in flowers... it was all very real and I saw so much of my younger self in Dani. Particularly the sobbing. Florence deserves an award.
When him and Dani are having their argument over him not mentioning the trip to Sweden everything Christian says makes it very clear that his intention was to leave without her. It's once she's already doubting reality herself, saying she was over reacting (when she actually handled the news calmer than I think a lot of people would) Christian further adds to this notion she's in the wrong by saying he was gonna bring her with as a surprise (which we know was bull) he knows this will makes her doubt the validity of her reaction to the news even more. He may not gas light Dani in a traditional sense but he's entirely okay with furthering her self doubt and it's damaging her sense of, idk, emotional reality? if that term makes any sense.
He pretty much constantly lies and makes her feel small, paranoid, and unimportant. Except when it serves him to make her feel like he wants her around he's constantly making it clear he doesn't. And then acting like she's crazy for feeling that way.
All that being said, and I'm not trying to justify anything, I wonder how much is actually intentional. I wonder if he's ill equipped to be in a relationship like she needs and scared to break it off, maybe in a weird way dependant on her needing him just as much as it annoys him. Or if he's genuinely doing it on purpose, full well realizing he is.
People are complex sometimes. Doesn't make what they do right, but sometimes people royally screw up without actually directly meaning to due to their own hang ups. Often without even realizing it.
@@chaossmith3864 Christian is a complete asshole but I think people who habitually gaslight do it because they want someone to be more reliant on them. Christian is the opposite; he wants out but feels trapped, which backs the "wimpy and self-interested" motive stated in the video.
edit: but yes it's possible that gaslighting is a learned trait of his along with his other passive-aggressive tools for communication.
But do you think Pella was stealing Dani? I mean.. he really stepped in to console Dani and support her where Christian couldn't/wouldn't
Josh Peters I think that was his way of luring her into the cult
Both him and Christian were manipulative-Christian was just less successful. - Mariel
To be honest the guts and stuff made me uncomfortable but the true horror for me was how impeccable it depicted an emotionally abusive relationship.
Everything u said is spot on x
I believe I need to see the directors cut. I think Christian could’ve used some coaching on how to be a better human being and boyfriend but I never felt he was manipulative or evil. I suspect there are several people justifying his death by acting as though they despised him throughout the film when in fact they are just trying to psychologically cope with his “grisly” death.
It’s similar to how so many people are acting as though they are Arthur Fleck when in reality they are the society. I’m not saying this to antagonize people I’m just saying for Christian to be drugged, essentially mind raped, paralyzed and burned alive I could’ve used more evidence that he was deserving of such a fate.
This is one of the best comments I've read so far. Well done! The trick this movie pulls on the viewer is the very same trick the cult pulls on Dani: slow indoctrination to the point where we're screaming "yassss, Queen" as Christian burns, whilst TOTALLY ignoring all the evil shit the cult did. Christian isn't gaslighting Dani! This movie is gaslighting us! LOL.
MrDWat3 An astute analysis my friend! You get where I’m coming from👌🏽👌🏽
Really great video! I feel like a lot of other media I've seen about this movie portrays Christian as an irredeemable bad guy, but I feel that was kind of unfair. I do agree that he was selfish and manipulative, but I think that self-centered behavior came out of his overall passiveness and indecision, rather than him just being a horrible person. It's interesting that his passivity comes from his desire to not be a bad person, but in reality, his indecision and inability to speak honestly makes him just as much of a douchebag as he tries to avoid. Christian is passive in every aspect of his life, from his relationship to not criticizing Mark for his horrible behavior to stealing Josh's thesis. I thought that Christian being drugged and forced into the ritual at the end of the film was a sign of how much his passiveness caused his own downfall. He was passive because he was afraid of facing the consequences of his decisions, and so ultimately paid the price for all the decisions that he opted out of making and that others made for him.
Also, as much as I identified with Dani (I also have a bit of an insecure attachment style lol), I feel like she gets praised too much as being in the right in this movie. Her trauma is undeniable and horrible, and I do agree that it makes total sense for her to have intense emotional need. I also think that she does a really good job of trying to manage her mental illness and tries her best for it not to be a burden to others. However, I think her constant need for external validation is concerning problem. When the cult women cry with her after she has a mental breakdown, I saw it not as a good thing where she finally got the empathy that she deserved, but that she was falling into the trap of her own passivity. The cult makes her feel "empowered" by giving her empathy and the illusion of making her own decisions, but in reality she is still mostly going along with their traditions and their rules, not really calling her own shots.
Absolutely! Great analysis of the film. - Mariel
I get what you’re trying to say, but his downfall wasn’t his fault. He didn’t get drugged, raped and murdered due to his own actions. It was all on the cult. The brilliant aspect of this movie is that it makes people point fingers at either Christian or Dani without seeing who the true villain is, and that’s the cult. That’s what the movie wants you to do. It wants the cult to seem not as evil as it truly is and wants you to pin the blame on the outsiders for “acting out of line”. But no. Christian was a victim to the cult. Nothing he did could’ve avoided his fate.
I really enjoyed this video
I do not think he is a gaslighter.. I think she wanted someone to sink to her level, she didn't want to be lifted up, she wanted someone to wallow with, deeply, and some people cannot do that without losing themselves, they get completely lost in doing so. Kudos to those who can! I have tried to help and been involved with people like that before, and it's difficult (though not always impossible) to be there and feel like you can't make any difference, because you are not what they believe they need..
Christian was entitled and lazy, but not controlling. I think of the ritual, as a symbol of Dani’s voyage through grief. She makes the first active decision of the movie, by choosing to burn Christian. The symbolism of this act is to rip off the bandage, so to speak. There’s no good way out. One must make that decision, a decision that will cause pain. Christian is sedated from scene one. Dani calls Christian in the first scene and he says he’s “smoking resin”. He’s actively sedating himself. His inability to move, in his final moments, is of his own making.
Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
Mondo Connie good point re Christians inability to move and apathy being symbolic in the end.
He gaslit her in two scenes but overall he's not a gaslighter
Absolutely adore this movie. Thank you for your take! I'd love to see some of your opinions on The Lighthouse next.
Thanks so much for the recommendation! Adding it to the list right now. - Mariel
Shrink Tank 🙌🏼
Check out Jonathan's review on THE LIGHTHOUSE! You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/oXXn9fhf6DM/видео.html
Jonathan also did a Psych Cinema on THE LIGHTHOUSE. You can watch that here: ruclips.net/video/NXdU1iCfKr8/видео.html
You know someone's a professional in a field of psychology when they call someone a "wimp". Nicely done, buddy.
'dani is the villain' this. 'christian is the villain' that. you all are like little baby, watch this: The Harga are the villains.
duh
THIS, thank you. Both Dani and Christian had unhealthy traits contributing to the dysfunctional relationship, it's really not a blame game. Meanwhile, The Harga take full advantage of the situation in order to both get the unwilling sacrifices they need and brainwash Dani into their ranks.
I enjoy that the Harga, Dani, and Christian all have and use the same needs and means to meet them. Dani's sister can't (possibly) meet her emotional needs. The Harga want connections with their past members like the intense connections with the present ones (and have a desire, like all cultures, to prepare for death, the future, and pain) The future is impossible to know. The Harga and Dani's sister are the two killers in the movie.
finally someone gets it! people obsessing over personal traits and blame, dosnt see the bigger picture. the cult used magic and pere pressure to manipulate everyone, and led them to sloughter.
"Hijacked the trip."
Her entire family just died, dude.
Prag Nacious and he ASKS her to go. This is probably the worst take I’ve seen on this film.
She STILL hijacked it. She knew darn well that he was only asking b/c he felt sorry for her.
@@charlottebuchanan3193 I feel bad for anyone who dates you.
Yeah dude doing the analysis is a dick lmao hope his partner never goes through grief
Where has this channel been all my life? Like YES, I DO want to know why some characters act the way they do. What a clever idea for a channel!
This comment made us smile so big. We're happy you've found us, Katarina! Be sure to submit any recommendations for other films/shows for us to tackle in the future. :-) - Mariel
This movie touched my heart. I never related to a character on film as much as Dani and to see her smiling at the destruction at the end of the movie...I felt tht
Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
I completely disagree. The fact that she is questioning herself as being needy and it not being portrayed in the film at all is just a symptom of how deep his manipulation and distortion of her reality goes. That is classic gaslighting. And there are several instances in the movie where he lies about something he did or did not do. That is the classical sign of a gaslight.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! - Mariel
Well this is all subjective...
Hmm, interesting. Let’s help get this guy more subscribers. He goes deeper than just reviewing.
Thanks so much!
Very well done..
Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
love this
Interesting! I kind of agree in that Christian is more so just an unavailable and uninterested boyfriend than a 'gaslighting' type of guy. I love this movie overall, however I have mixed feelings about it about how I feel about Dany's ultimate acceptance and embrace of the cult.
If Dany was being set up and manipulated from the very beginning by Pelle, then I see her as being more of a victim to this cult or surrogate family, and am more sympathetic towards her ultimate outcome. All though she has the family (the cult) and empathy she has longed for, it was being manipulated from the beginning. I feel sorry for her as opposed to just happy for her. I still feel that Pelle murdered the sister and parents and made it look like a murder suicide so that Dany would be assed out and more in need of the cult. If all of the events that took place in leading Dany to the cult were just coincidental, then I am more supportive of Dany and happy for her that she found a new family who love and understand her completely which is all she ever wanted.
I don't know, either way this movie was amazing on all levels and very thought provoking. I'm more in love with Hereditary but this was also fantastic! I can't wait for whatever Aster is doing next!
Thanks for the comment! We're happy this video resonated with you. - Mariel
Really well thought out! I don’t think he deserved what happened to him in the ending, nor do I think Dani is 100% in the right by the end, but I think this might be giving Christian too much credit. Most of his behavior, while maybe not gaslighting, is still manipulative behavior.
It’s interesting, because I find that Christian uses many tactics that emotional abusers use to make their victim second guess themselves. However, it’s important to remember that these tactics are not only meant for the victim to question themselves, but for bystanders to be on the gaslighters side as well. In this case it’s Christians friends, and even the audience.
Looking only at the conversation between Christian and his friends and when he argues with Dani about Sweden is interesting, since he talks in a calm, exasperated tone of voice that makes him sound like an annoyed but well meaning guy, and makes Dani sound like a hysterical crazy gf. This convinced his friends who are only hearing Christians side of the relationship. In a way, it also fools Dani for a while, since his tone is so sure of himself and critical of what she says and how she says it.
the way he deflects everything she says and turns it on her tells a different story; she wasn’t even mad at him about not telling her about Sweden, but he essentially takes anything she says as either irrelevant or an attack on him with no middle ground, making her doubt her own tone of voice and resulting in HER apologizing to HIM, in a situation that would otherwise be no big deal.
It’s easy to assume that Dani is simply quick to apologize and overly insecure in what she says, but, to me at least, this seems to have been well before the trauma of her family dying, since in the beginning of the movie she acts a similar way when telling Christian about her sisters email. I thought, If anything, her behavior is the RESULT of how Christian treats her rather than a CAUSE of why the relationship is on the rocks.
Interestingly, In a deleted scene, Dani points out the issues in their relationship, and rather than using her invitation as a means of discussion, or even to break up with her (which she was saying was what she wanted before he speaks), he instead gets angry and proceeds to blame and guilt her into being too needy and manipulating him, forcing her to apologize (again). Essentially, in this scene, he may be justifying to himself that he’s staying in a relationship for her sake, but the fact that he gets angry at HER for trying to leave him shows him as blatantly manipulative. It’s clear that he keeps her around for his own sake.
Cora Swan he deserved everything he got
Absolutely-Christian's incredibly manipulative in so many ways. Thanks for sharing your perspective! - Mariel
Love Psychology and Cinema so looking forward to watching this series. One suggestion - use music that is less distracting and low volume in the background? Found this a little hard to follow with the music chosen.
Thank you for the suggestion! Our sound editor has taken this into account for future videos. -Mariel
In regards to Empathy not given by Christian, we have Pelle, who goes out of his way to tell Dani about how he knows how she feels and that he understands her because his parents died horribly too. Which is the definition of empathy
He did gaslight her over the phone in the beginning when he said that she was the cause of her sister continuing to have anxiety attention issues because she cared and would be there for her
I love this movie and the story it has, I have never seen one of your videos before but i like your take on things and i think I'll Subscribe.
I think he is gas lighting, I have seen gas lighting in action and have been a victim of it a bit. He is for sure gas lighting, No Question. Especially when you look at the directors cut.
Thanks so much for your comment. We're happy you enjoyed our content! - Mariel
Great video and explanation for the movie 👍🏻😁
Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
This is how my kids dad treats me after losing my mother last year and my dad this past July
The Who was the greater manipulator? Christian or Pelle?
Most of the main characters in this film are manipulative in one way or another. The big difference is that Pelle was successful in his manipulation-whereas Christian ultimately paid a price. 😬 - Mariel
i am delighted that he ended up in the bear suit!
So am I.
Copper Fronts Absolootly! 🔥
Sheesh, victim-blaming. The dude gave up on his breakup plans and vacation plans because of the tragedy, then was drugged, raped, then drugged into paralysis by the cult, only to be in the bear suit at the end. I don’t think the audience was meant to think he deserved his treatment. I think our reaction was to be more like, “wow, she completely lost it and became one of them.”
U know innocent ppl dying is not a joke,right? He may be a shitty person but he is the victim. Would u feel delighted when u're in his place instead?
cindy lauper you know this is an ari aster film for entertainment right? Bunch a cry babies up in the feed....
I agree with you. I called it before you revealed it.
Random, but your username is hands down one of the best we've seen here on RUclips. Thanks for the comment! - Mariel
100% agree with everything that is said in this video
I think we can at least suspect hes gaslighting her at the beginning, when he BLAMES her for the email sent by her sister, saying she’s always enabling her.
Im sorry? He might’ve wanted out, but he didn’t want any of the trouble of ending the relationship and, instead, he chose to be an asshole lol
Thanks for sharing your perspective! - Mariel
I don't think Christian is gaslighting because he just doesn't care about Dany's feelings, thoughts or inner health.
Now, everyone sees Christian as this big jerk, and maybe is because I only watched the theatrical version and not the director's cut that I don't think he's a jerk, he's just in a very complicated situation: his girlfriend has anxiety problems and just lost her family. He can't leave her, but can't provide what she needs either because he doesn't love her anymore, at least that's how I see it
I burst out laughing when you said wimp. Haven't heard that in a while. Subscribed.