@Taitset, even more surprising there was a few suburban official hook turns till about mid 60s, & couple was even despite no trams along it anymore And also wasn't where tram lines cross. As the 5 legislated CBD intersection were from mid 1950s. (Which 5 was always one of the questions for Driver's Licence). Hoddle St/Johnston St was Hook Turns when Cable Trams ran along Johnston St but while that tram line closed in 1939, the Hook Turn remained till 1962, when the tracks were finally removed. There's couple photos on SLV website that show a car or 2 doing doing a hook turn, circa 1960. Was also hook turns at Johnston St/Brunswick St
Hi! I’m a driving instructor who teaches in Melbourne’s CBD. Thank you for showing the correct way of performing a hook turn. When I’m teaching a student to wait for the light to go green I’ll always point out the driver waiting behind us will start freaking out and waving their arms around believing we should have already gone. It never seems to occur to them that I might have read the rule book more recently than they have. Great video!
I'm also a driving instructor that does the same and deals with the same from drivers behind. It's great to see more of these videos on correctly making hook turns. :) I loved the history part of this video.
Do you remember if turning right on a road with a centre strip, you did not have to stop on the middle Red, unless posted to do so, now you must obey All Red Lights
@@raymanlazer as I’m sure you know, most people go when the light in the street they’re leaving turns red. Make sure to teach your student to check their right mirror for any red light runners before turning!
I moved to Melbourne for a few years in the early 90s. I remember driving into the CDB late one night to practice these hook turns. Very easy and i thought logical once you did it two or three times.
Yep, as @professornuke7562 said, hook turns are legal for bicycles on every intersection, unless explicitly prohibited by signs. They might not be marked, but you can still turn like that on a pushie.
In the 80s most intersections in Melbourne's CBD were two lanes, and in heavy traffic both lanes would be blocked by cars wanting to turn either left or right meaning through-traffic was almost continuously blocked. Hook turns were brought back for the through-traffic, not just trams.
Whenever someone tells me that hook turns are complicated (if you are driving), I just tell them to imagine they are crossing like a pedestrian, not a driver. It's easy if you think of it like that. You cross one street, wait, rotate 90 degrees and cross the next street. Easy.
Hook turns suddenly made sense to me when I rode a bike too, because you physically turn your bike to face the new direction, and you're becoming part of the traffic in the road you're turning into.
Hook turns were something we had to learn about in Tasmania when getting our licenses. Reason: Where was the first place we're likely to hit once we come off the boat at Station Pier...
The amount of people I’ve seen that doesn’t wait for the green light at a hook turn is astonishing. I’ve seen people get t-boned and plenty of near misses because they don’t know the rules 😅
And if you do it properly you get an uber/taxi driver honking at you for not going when they think you should! I have seen plenty of mid-cycle turns at the intersection in the video, when on a bike I 'educate' the driver when they are banked up in Collins St that they can't go whenever they please.
We teach learner drivers to do hook turns and it's the same deal - get beeped from behind, etc. It pays to start to roll very very slowly when the light in-front turns amber and red. Because we are rolling it creates the momentum to proceed when the traffic light is green on the right, rather than going from a completely stopped position to immediately moving. While doing all of this, we are checking in our right mirror and over our right shoulder to make sure it's safe. 🙏🏾
Interesting video. The intersection of Lygon St and Grattan St in Carlton now has hook turns too despite being outside the CBD and having no trams going either way. Now it makes sense for the cyclists!
Hey Philip! Not quite fitting into this miniseries, but I'd like a video on what a transport planner actually does in 'a day at the office'. I love your work, keep going!
I've had the pleasure of doing these in Melbourne as a foreigner while on holiday. It's no big deal and adjustment only requires some foresight/planning of your route to be in the correct lane early. I like turning from the lane of the same side though, and prefer it as being through traffic on a motorcycle.
My driving instructor told me I’m supposed to go when the old light turn amber which was so stressful because people try to run the amber light all the time. It makes so much sense that I was supposed to go when the new light goes green
I can remember the return of hook turns in Melbourne and really, the most important benefit for most people was that it is logical to stop people from sitting dangerously in the right hand lane blocking not only trams but on-coming traffic that reasonably expects the right hand lane to be the over-taking lane, not the slow lane. Of course, an accident in the left hand lane caused by some Wally rear ending another driver is horrible, but the same accident in the centre of the road has the potential to close down most if not all of the road in both directions. Loved the hook turn in Melbourne and wish they would use them in Perth. Thanks for another engaging and informative video.
I remember if any friends or family were coming from interstate they were terrified to drive in the city as they couldn’t understand the concept of a hook turn where I told them that once you do one you’ll see that it is one of the best ways to keep traffic flowing in the city and once you do one, you’ll never forget it! #ILoveMelbourne
That last bit about the bicycles is really interesting. I've only recently started cycling to work (not in Vic, however). It seems like a very safe and sensible way to make a right hand turn, so I think I'll add it to my normal practice!
When centre turning was introduced, it was different in Victoria and NSW. Victoria introduced it as we have now, called "diamond turns" at the time. In NSW, if 2 cars approached an intersection head-on, they had to pass to the left of each other (I guess to be consistent with the overall keep-left rule). Often there was a "silent cop" - a small, metal traffic island, in the centre of the intersection and everyone turning had to keep to its left. As traffic built up, this arrangement was slow and inefficient and "diamond turns" were rolled out to great fanfare on 1st April 1963.
In Belgium, the rule there is similar to the Sydney solution: pass each other before turning, unless there are markings on the intersection which indicates you can do a diamond crossing. The reason is safety. The pass and turn solution avoids the car in front of you blocking your view, allowing you to see oncoming traffic before making the turn. The downside is it can't handle a lot of traffic at a time. The diamond solves this by using the right green arrow to manage when it's safe to cross the intersection even if your view is obscured.
When I first arrived here, I remember finding the multi-lane roads in and around Melbourne really daunting on a bicycle. Hook turns was a revelation as I realised you could apply this to bicycles as well and it made turning right a whole lot safer.
I recall when I was studying for my licence in the 1980s that there were only four hook turns and you had to memorize them and you were tested on their location, also these were not signposted in any way, you had to know beforehand. I avoided them, I only did them twice, I drove a work colleague back to the office and had to do my first hook turn as I followed the same route taken in the morning.
Turning right from Flinders into Swanston Street - terrifying! A kindly young man tooted me as soon as he spotted my ACT plates. Made the turn successfully. Born and bred in Melbourne but hadn’t driven through the city before that time. Got my licence in NSW so wasn’t familiar with the concept. Thanks for the history and memories.
Great video. Thanks. Hook turns are so easy to navigate. Enter the turning lane, wait until the light turns green, GO! When I used to commute to the city on a bike, I'd almost always do hook turns. So much safer. I still regularly do them on a bike.
One additional advantage offered by the hook turn, is that vehicles turning right, do not impede the flow of traffic in the right-hand lane. In this, it succeeds admirably.
There’s also many intersections where large vehicles have to perform turns similar to hook turns to make those turns without hitting anything like in Box Hill when buses often have to turn left from between the two lanes or the right lane to get from Whitehorse Road to Station Street! :)
The only hook turn I recall in Sydney was heading north on George St turning right into Martin Place. Initially, centre turns required rifht turning vehicles from opposite directions to pass driver side to driver side. This has been superseded everywhere in Australia now. And let's not forget the old Victorian rule that left turning vehicles give way to all others.
Victoria also had a road rule (until the 1990s) that, at intersections left-turning traffic had to give way to right- turning traffic coming the other way and turning into the same street (the opposite is the case now). This was to get cars off tram tracks more quickly.. The argument against it was that most intersections don't have tram tracks, but, as a 1980s trammy, where they did, it definitely reduced the time that right turning cars sat on the tram tracks blocking the tram behind - just one of the many reasons why Melbourne now has the world's slowest tram network.
I seem to remember in the suburbs, if you were turning right into a side street and if you were delaying a tram, the oncoming traffic had to give way and let you turn right so the tram could continue.
Not quite a hook turn, but the busses on the corner of Queen St and Flinders Lane do a U-turn from the left lane. I know it’s due to their size but something about it fascinates me. Great video!
Hook turns should be more common. It's a win-win for everyone. Even for drivers, it beats waiting to turn at an intersection without an arrow Cardigan and Grattan Streets outside Parkville station now has a hook turn to accommodate the new cycling lane.
I got my drivers license in 1973. At that time there were 5 intersections in the CBD to be memorised for the driving test. Also at the time, the green light itself was not mentioned in the rule. The hook turn was to be completed when 'the lights changed'. Somewhat surprisingly, a recent intersection to convert to hook turning is the intersection of Lygon St and Grattan St in Carlton, and I daresay there are more than that, where there are no trams involved. I imagine that this is part and parcel of the practice around there to much narrow the driveable sections of the road so as to have a bicycle lane on the kerb, car parking a bike lane's distance away from the kerb, and the remainder of the road available to be driven on.
Hook turns just 'returned' to Sydney! The new bike road down Castlereagh Street uses them at intersections along the route. It was quite a surprise to see the hook turn signs here...
Honestly when I first started driving, I was scared of them. Until I actually got to one, and they're actually easy and makes perfect sense. It's even easier now with signs that tell you when to go
I thought you may have mentioned the NEW hook turns that have been added at where Grattan Street intersects with Cardigan Street and Drummond Street ;)
I always thought the main reason for them was so that right turning traffic didn't delay cars. Otherwise on a two lane road if you have cars turning left in one lane (often giving way to pedestrians) and right in the other, both lanes are blocked and straight though traffic can't get through.
The main reason was not to delay trams. One tram can have 200 or more people on board and it is not fair that they should be delayed by one person in a car. Improved traffic flow was a secondary benefit. Win-win.
It always amazes me how few cyclists know about their ability to do hook turns anywhere. They feel so much less dangerous than trying to stop in the middle of the road in a right turn lane and waiting for a green arrow. I almost always make hook turns when navigating traffic lights on my bike.
That's because they aren't cyclists; the ist at the end of the word means specialist, or possibly enthusiast. Most people are simply riding a bicycle for a bit of exercise or recreation, yet they are normally car brained. Remember; there is no true cycling culture in Australia. it's been killed off by the government, public laziness and aggression toward those outside of a car, and of course, car and fuel companies.
In Germany, hook turns are being used more and more for cyclists. Makes you wait a little longer, but making it way safer. Sad though we don‘t use it for cars, because many tram lines are separated from traffic but then let you turn left from within the separated area, slowing trams down…
Excellent content. Once saw a set of three permanent signs together at an intersection on St Kilda Rd or Dandenong Road: "No Left Turn", No Right Turn", and "No Centre Turn". I am guessing a U-Turn was all that was allowed 🙂 except No "Right Turn" prohibits that, too. "No Centre Turn" should be made redundant by "No Right Turn. Perhaps they ran out of "No Turns" signs. It has always intrigued me what was going on there …
Victoria used to have another bizarre road rule that has now been eliminated. There was a time when traffic turning right had right of way over oncoming traffic turning left into the same street. However, the right turning traffic still had to give way to oncoming traffic that was going straight ahead, So you would end up with left turning drivers waiting for the right turning drivers who were waiting for cars that were going straight on.
Neat vid. Not sure how people don't get how these work. It's basically the steps of a U-turn without actually turning around, and the added bonus of having traffic signals to assist. I feel many western drivers should have to experience driving in Asian countries where there are very loose road rules, it would allow us to think more critically and on our feet as drivers.
When I got my licence, you were required to memorise the 6 or so intersections that required hook turns. They were all on Swanston and Elizabeth streets.
I was going to say the same. Yes, there were six, which we had to in order to get our licence, and they were all where there were trams on both streets.
@@nickclark2278 bruh people on parramatta road can’t even check their blind spot when doing a simple lane change how the heck they supposed to be trusted navigating one of these turns
3:54 I believe originally with hook turns you didn't need to wait until the lights changed, if the traffic was clear you could just go. I believe that may be what the article is referring to. It may have been that this 'centre right turn' you were supposed to wait for the lights on the cross street to go green, as you do for a hook turn, but this 'turn against the red light' may be referring to the red light on the street you are turning into.
New Jersy is known (some would say, reviled) for its "jug-handle" turns. These are for left turns, but same idea, only bigger turn. You generally can't make a left turn on a highway. Instead, as you approach an intersection you'll see a turn-out on the right. This will take you to the road that intersects the main one; the one on which you want to turn left. THis turn-out will take you to a smaller intersection or even a give-way (we call it a yield) lane where you can then merge onto the intersecting road you wanted to go left on.
Thanks for this bit of info. I grew up in Melbourne but there's still so much I don't know! Here's something I wonder if you've done (or can/will do an explainer for): I remember a time when if you were approaching a 4-way intersection, and you wanted to turn left, and meanwhile someone was approacing from the opposite direction facing you and wanted to turn right into the same street, you had to give way. Then at some point in past decades, that rule changed and now the right-turner must give way (with the exception of slip lanes). I also discovered whilst driving in New Zealand a couple of decades ago that they still had that rule where the left-turner had to give way to a right-turner as we used to in Victoria.
It used to be in Victoria that you could rely on the good-old "give way to the right" rule to help you remember. Left-turners had to give way to opposing right-turners, as they were on your right. However in the early '80s, the road rules were standardized somewhat across all states, making driving easier and road rules similar from state to state. Because all the other states already had right-turners give way to left-turners, Victoria changed to be consistent.
@@Myrtone Had nothing to do with crashes or being simpler -- one gives way to the left, the other to the right. Same complexity, just a different direction gets priority. It was all about standardization of the Australian Road Rules, which started to be introduced at that time (this was one of the first changes). It was followed by a rewrite of each states rules to make it easier and safer when driving in other states. Each state still retained some unique elements, but road markings and signage was pretty similar following the change.
@@endotherm No, the current rule really is simpler according to those in the business - if you are turning right, you give way. Even under the old rule, those turning left could slip around the corner whenever there was straight ahead traffic passing them. I checked two newspapers (the Age and the Herald sun) and it give the changed rule being simpler and safer than the then existing rule as a reason for a rule change. I also checked a 1993 edition of the RACV magazine and it stated the same thing. The rule also used to discourage use of the left most lane. I have also read that the rule required left turning drivers to perform a whole lot of safety tasks within seconds and the rule change reduced workload on all parties, also because those turning right no longer need to check in advance if an oncoming vehicle is going straight or turning left. Remember, even then, those turning right did give way to those going straight, while in other states, then as of now, those turning right gave way to all oncoming traffic. New Zealand made the same rule change in 2012, and again, simplifying the rules was the primary reason.
@@Myrtone I still don't see your argument for it being simpler. Turning left under the old scheme was simpler -- check for crossing peds, if it is clear you can go. Now, you can go if it is clear AND you don't need to give way to a right-turner. The old right turners simply had to give way to ALL approaching traffic (whether they were turning or not) until it was clear. Now they only need to give way to through approaching traffic. They could also "slip through" if there was no opposing traffic. All it did was shift the emphasis and the responsibility to the other turner. Same safety checks, etc. Nothing is any more or less "easier" or "safer". Of course the newspapers and RACV are going to tell the public that it is easier, so it is easier for them to swallow a rule change. Most people despise change, that was just to ease it in for drivers that have been driving the old way all their life and resistant to change. It's not like the newspapers and magazines always tell the truth now, is it? And it's just an opinion. I challenge anyone to show empirically how one is safer than the other. I don't see what you mean by "discourage use of the left most lane" -- all left turners were required to turn from the left lane or as far over as practicable. The old "simplifying the rules" thing was talking about standardization -- it was simpler to drive in Australia because you didn't have to memorize a bunch of disparate state rules, that's all. And I was "In the business" at the time.
As a driving educator that teaches people to drive daily and created a video for students around hook turns, I found the history section of your video intriguing! The research you put in and displayed was fantastic - great work! Hook turns are now in the Carlton suburb along Grattan Street when intersecting with Cardigan, Lygon and Drummond Street. It's fantastic for learner drivers and should be taught on a daily basis in the area. Unfortunately, many people will beep at someone to go when they legally cannot due to the red traffic light on the right. Many disobey this rule, so I think a friendly reminder is always good (which was mentioned in your video at 1:02) - we cannot proceed on the red traffic light (to our right) and must wait until that traffic light is green. 🙏🏾
When I was staying in Taiwan it didn't take me much to get used to their hook turns. They have a similar arrangement for left turning for all scooters on their wide intersections as it takes vulnerable road users out of the traffic flow. Large motorcycles and cars can turn without the hook turns. But they have an extremely high amount of traffic lights and have not heard about roundabouts and they don't have presence sensors at their lights so you often have to wait a long time with no one around.
Today in melb (23rd) it's well over 30 degrees celsius, making his beanie and jacket seem crazy. You'd think this means he recorded at least a few months ago, but on the day this was posted (21st) if was a full 20 degrees colder than today - so I have absolutely no idea.
There are also hook turns on Grattan St, Carlton. At the intersection with Cardigan St and Lygon St. They were only implemented recently perhaps the past year since Google street views are still showing the old intersections
Canberra still has designated hook turns for cyclists, especially along Northbourne Avenue. Didn’t even notice this until I started cycling to work recently.
Almost Got caught in clarendon st south melbourne yesterday. Busy trying to work out which one way st i needed to turn into to get into the lane i was looking for and did not see the signage for the hook turn. Is difficult when you are dealing with other complex driving requirements.
Im not sure how you would go about it, but you should do a video on melbournes very extensive network of stormwater drains. Some are very old and ornate.
@@1ihws The drains im talking about are very large, upwards of 3m in height that sprawl onwards for kilometers. Some have waterfalls and very very large chambers in them. Look up the clannies in anzac drain youll find some good culture
@ as if I actually wanted to just hang out in a gutter, examining “culture” in storm water drains; at what point would I ever even think “yeah, I might just go do that one day, I’ll just go hang out in storm water drain for kicks and culture - I really don’t think so.
@@1ihws it seems that you may not be interested in such things. That's cool, would be a very boring world if we were all interested in the same things after all ☺️ suprisingly enough not everyone is interested in the history of hook turns either. But some of us are, and we all congregated here to watch a video about it. Whose to say people wouldn't do the same for a video about secret underground tunnel networks? You just wouldn't be one of them ..and that's cool 😎
A red right-turn arrow solves the problem of right turning cars blocking trams. The reason for hook turns is that there is no room for right-turning lanes in the CBD because of the tram tracks and as such right turning traffic would block the through-lane. This is why hook turns have also been adopted on streets that now have wide cycling lanes: there is no longer room for a right turning lane.
I'm from Sydney, been to Melb awhile ago and recently this August. I would be scared to drive down to Melb personally due to Hook turn, I understand when to go like you would giving way to oncoming traffic except waiting for light to go green. Down side with hook turn I think is when it goes green, the driver to your left going forward or driver behind always beep at you which I had noticed when wondering Melb CBD
Great Video, also to add that there’s been new additional hook turns added in Carlton as well for vehicles only (and no trams) and I m curious about what the implications are for those 🤔🤔
Hey Philip. I remember when I was growing up, there was a road rule change that saw right hand turners having to give way to oncoming left hand turners. Was that correct? Did people turning left have to give way to oncoming right hand turners?
Well done Philip I was always interested in the history of this as well, transport planning in Australia is some of the worst in the world and I have lived in 3 continents the right hook turn is just incredibly dangerous why Victoria hang on to it , only demonstrates the ignorance of those who claim to be police officers and traffic planners. 😊
A most gratifying (but illegal) thing to do, is another city on a multi lane road and not being able to get across to the right turning lane - to get across in the left to the same position that you would hook turn from and wait for the light change. Yes - I did a hookturn in Sydney. It was extremely busy and I Don’t know what the observers were thinking.
Really interesting that hook turns were originally the default!
I remember my Mum telling me this when I was practising learning the rules for my license back in the 70s.
@@Taitset Taitset🫦👅🤤
TAITSETTTTTT :DDDDD
Looking forward to more metro tunnel videos
@Taitset, even more surprising there was a few suburban official hook turns till about mid 60s, & couple was even despite no trams along it anymore
And also wasn't where tram lines cross. As the 5 legislated CBD intersection were from mid 1950s. (Which 5 was always one of the questions for Driver's Licence).
Hoddle St/Johnston St was Hook Turns when Cable Trams ran along Johnston St but while that tram line closed in 1939, the Hook Turn remained till 1962, when the tracks were finally removed. There's couple photos on SLV website that show a car or 2 doing doing a hook turn, circa 1960. Was also hook turns at Johnston St/Brunswick St
Hi! I’m a driving instructor who teaches in Melbourne’s CBD. Thank you for showing the correct way of performing a hook turn. When I’m teaching a student to wait for the light to go green I’ll always point out the driver waiting behind us will start freaking out and waving their arms around believing we should have already gone. It never seems to occur to them that I might have read the rule book more recently than they have. Great video!
I'm also a driving instructor that does the same and deals with the same from drivers behind. It's great to see more of these videos on correctly making hook turns. :) I loved the history part of this video.
Do you remember if turning right on a road with a centre strip, you did not have to stop on the middle Red, unless posted to do so, now you must obey All Red Lights
@@raymanlazer as I’m sure you know, most people go when the light in the street they’re leaving turns red. Make sure to teach your student to check their right mirror for any red light runners before turning!
Thanks very much, glad I got it right!
I moved to Melbourne for a few years in the early 90s. I remember driving into the CDB late one night to practice these hook turns. Very easy and i thought logical once you did it two or three times.
Bicycle hook turns seem like a great idea, they should be everywhere.
They are. It's the best way to not have irate car drivers honking and trying to run you down.
Yep, as @professornuke7562 said, hook turns are legal for bicycles on every intersection, unless explicitly prohibited by signs. They might not be marked, but you can still turn like that on a pushie.
Bicycle hook turns can be done at any intersection with lights.
@@kippen64I think they meant literally everywhere, not just Melbourne/VIC
@pigglebee True.
In the 80s most intersections in Melbourne's CBD were two lanes, and in heavy traffic both lanes would be blocked by cars wanting to turn either left or right meaning through-traffic was almost continuously blocked. Hook turns were brought back for the through-traffic, not just trams.
Whenever someone tells me that hook turns are complicated (if you are driving), I just tell them to imagine they are crossing like a pedestrian, not a driver. It's easy if you think of it like that. You cross one street, wait, rotate 90 degrees and cross the next street. Easy.
That's a great explanation. Simple and relatable. Driving handbook's should say something like that.
@@Mick_Aub Thanks! I hear so many explanations that just over-complicate it.
It's the same as using a a roundabout but the roundabout isn't there.
Hook turns suddenly made sense to me when I rode a bike too, because you physically turn your bike to face the new direction, and you're becoming part of the traffic in the road you're turning into.
@@Leebo13 not really, right hand roundabout turns are still on the inside lane. But I see what you mean.
Hook turns were something we had to learn about in Tasmania when getting our licenses.
Reason: Where was the first place we're likely to hit once we come off the boat at Station Pier...
If you were lucky it was somewhere besides Melbourne 😂
Hook turns allowed for riders - bloody beautiful. I didn't know and will make right turns much safer for me. Thanks for pointing that out Phillip
The amount of people I’ve seen that doesn’t wait for the green light at a hook turn is astonishing. I’ve seen people get t-boned and plenty of near misses because they don’t know the rules 😅
And if you do it properly you get an uber/taxi driver honking at you for not going when they think you should!
I have seen plenty of mid-cycle turns at the intersection in the video, when on a bike I 'educate' the driver when they are banked up in Collins St that they can't go whenever they please.
i thought the law allowed you to wait for a green light or continue when safe to do so. i never got booked for continuing when safe to do so.
@@vsvnrg3263 on vicroads website it says you must wait for the green light for the road you want to enter.
It`s an absolutely crazy road rule and crashes will continue to happen at these obverse Hook turn intersections.
We teach learner drivers to do hook turns and it's the same deal - get beeped from behind, etc.
It pays to start to roll very very slowly when the light in-front turns amber and red. Because we are rolling it creates the momentum to proceed when the traffic light is green on the right, rather than going from a completely stopped position to immediately moving.
While doing all of this, we are checking in our right mirror and over our right shoulder to make sure it's safe. 🙏🏾
Interesting video. The intersection of Lygon St and Grattan St in Carlton now has hook turns too despite being outside the CBD and having no trams going either way. Now it makes sense for the cyclists!
This is great for learner drivers in the area! We frequently use that intersection for hook turn practice. 🙏🏾
Hey Philip! Not quite fitting into this miniseries, but I'd like a video on what a transport planner actually does in 'a day at the office'. I love your work, keep going!
What a history! As a cyclist, I always do hook turn whenever possible. It's just much safer.
Good to see! I cycle myself and do the same. 🙏🏾
Same!
I've had the pleasure of doing these in Melbourne as a foreigner while on holiday. It's no big deal and adjustment only requires some foresight/planning of your route to be in the correct lane early.
I like turning from the lane of the same side though, and prefer it as being through traffic on a motorcycle.
My driving instructor told me I’m supposed to go when the old light turn amber which was so stressful because people try to run the amber light all the time. It makes so much sense that I was supposed to go when the new light goes green
Sounds like your instructor needs to watch this video.
I can remember the return of hook turns in Melbourne and really, the most important benefit for most people was that it is logical to stop people from sitting dangerously in the right hand lane blocking not only trams but on-coming traffic that reasonably expects the right hand lane to be the over-taking lane, not the slow lane. Of course, an accident in the left hand lane caused by some Wally rear ending another driver is horrible, but the same accident in the centre of the road has the potential to close down most if not all of the road in both directions. Loved the hook turn in Melbourne and wish they would use them in Perth. Thanks for another engaging and informative video.
I remember if any friends or family were coming from interstate they were terrified to drive in the city as they couldn’t understand the concept of a hook turn where I told them that once you do one you’ll see that it is one of the best ways to keep traffic flowing in the city and once you do one, you’ll never forget it! #ILoveMelbourne
Last time I was this early, hook turns were standard!
We have one hook turn left in Adelaide. For buses turning right onto North Terrace off King William Street.
In Brisbane, the intersection of Old Northern Road and Rogers Parade East has both a hook turn and a centre turn, which is fun.
Great work.
That last bit about the bicycles is really interesting. I've only recently started cycling to work (not in Vic, however). It seems like a very safe and sensible way to make a right hand turn, so I think I'll add it to my normal practice!
When centre turning was introduced, it was different in Victoria and NSW. Victoria introduced it as we have now, called "diamond turns" at the time. In NSW, if 2 cars approached an intersection head-on, they had to pass to the left of each other (I guess to be consistent with the overall keep-left rule). Often there was a "silent cop" - a small, metal traffic island, in the centre of the intersection and everyone turning had to keep to its left. As traffic built up, this arrangement was slow and inefficient and "diamond turns" were rolled out to great fanfare on 1st April 1963.
In Belgium, the rule there is similar to the Sydney solution: pass each other before turning, unless there are markings on the intersection which indicates you can do a diamond crossing. The reason is safety. The pass and turn solution avoids the car in front of you blocking your view, allowing you to see oncoming traffic before making the turn. The downside is it can't handle a lot of traffic at a time. The diamond solves this by using the right green arrow to manage when it's safe to cross the intersection even if your view is obscured.
Thanks Phillip, everyone remembers that question in the learners permit test...
Very interesting video Philip. Didn't know hook turns was a thing in Melbourne (then again I've never been to Melbourne).
When I first arrived here, I remember finding the multi-lane roads in and around Melbourne really daunting on a bicycle. Hook turns was a revelation as I realised you could apply this to bicycles as well and it made turning right a whole lot safer.
Awesome video bro! Now I can tell all my international friends exactly why we use this and the history now! so cool!
Love hook turns! In particular i like that it means people turning in either direction stay in one lane while those going straight go in the center.
I recall when I was studying for my licence in the 1980s that there were only four hook turns and you had to memorize them and you were tested on their location, also these were not signposted in any way, you had to know beforehand.
I avoided them, I only did them twice, I drove a work colleague back to the office and had to do my first hook turn as I followed the same route taken in the morning.
Magnificent stuff phil
Turning right from Flinders into Swanston Street - terrifying! A kindly young man tooted me as soon as he spotted my ACT plates. Made the turn successfully. Born and bred in Melbourne but hadn’t driven through the city before that time. Got my licence in NSW so wasn’t familiar with the concept. Thanks for the history and memories.
Great video. Thanks.
Hook turns are so easy to navigate.
Enter the turning lane, wait until the light turns green, GO!
When I used to commute to the city on a bike, I'd almost always do hook turns. So much safer.
I still regularly do them on a bike.
One additional advantage offered by the hook turn, is that vehicles turning right, do not impede the flow of traffic in the right-hand lane. In this, it succeeds admirably.
Thats true now, Up until the late 80's left hand turns, had to give way to right hand turns in Victoria, which made border towns a nightmare
This is also how I got to know about them during my stay in Melbourne
There’s also many intersections where large vehicles have to perform turns similar to hook turns to make those turns without hitting anything like in Box Hill when buses often have to turn left from between the two lanes or the right lane to get from Whitehorse Road to Station Street! :)
It would be amazing if you made a video about the Outer Ring Road that is shown as "proposed" on the Melway.
The only hook turn I recall in Sydney was heading north on George St turning right into Martin Place.
Initially, centre turns required rifht turning vehicles from opposite directions to pass driver side to driver side. This has been superseded everywhere in Australia now.
And let's not forget the old Victorian rule that left turning vehicles give way to all others.
There's actually a hook turn still in Adelaide CBD! Turning right from King William Street onto North Terrace (but it's for buses only)
Thank you. As a tourist in Melbourne, I have wondered
Thanks again Philip love all your content!
Thanks very much, glad you like them!
Well that was really interesting. Thanks. 🙏.
never been this early before. Really intresting vid.
Victoria also had a road rule (until the 1990s) that, at intersections left-turning traffic had to give way to right- turning traffic coming the other way and turning into the same street (the opposite is the case now). This was to get cars off tram tracks more quickly..
The argument against it was that most intersections don't have tram tracks, but, as a 1980s trammy, where they did, it definitely reduced the time that right turning cars sat on the tram tracks blocking the tram behind - just one of the many reasons why Melbourne now has the world's slowest tram network.
'Reformed' in 1993 (in Victoria), New Zealand had the same rule until 2012
I am sure we had another initial reason for this rule too. The date of the rule change in this state was the 28th of February 1993.
When I first tried a hook turn, I was really nervous. But it was easy as.
I seem to remember in the suburbs, if you were turning right into a side street and if you were delaying a tram, the oncoming traffic had to give way and let you turn right so the tram could continue.
New sub from me mate. Well done. I've never had issues with hook turns personally, but by god have I seen many succumb to it's rareness.
Thanks very much!
I recently saw in Taipei motorbikes are release from lights first, and go to the bay to do a hook turn. It makes so much sense.
ruclips.net/video/4GAnGvWYNT8/видео.htmlsi=nq626cQjPrI5cVya
Not quite a hook turn, but the busses on the corner of Queen St and Flinders Lane do a U-turn from the left lane. I know it’s due to their size but something about it fascinates me. Great video!
Great video Phil! Here in Adelaide, the metro buses actually have designated intersections where they also do hook turns as well.
Thanks very much! I do remember seeing the one on King William Street and North Terrace
Hook turns should be more common. It's a win-win for everyone. Even for drivers, it beats waiting to turn at an intersection without an arrow
Cardigan and Grattan Streets outside Parkville station now has a hook turn to accommodate the new cycling lane.
I got my drivers license in 1973. At that time there were 5 intersections in the CBD to be memorised for the driving test. Also at the time, the green light itself was not mentioned in the rule. The hook turn was to be completed when 'the lights changed'. Somewhat surprisingly, a recent intersection to convert to hook turning is the intersection of Lygon St and Grattan St in Carlton, and I daresay there are more than that, where there are no trams involved. I imagine that this is part and parcel of the practice around there to much narrow the driveable sections of the road so as to have a bicycle lane on the kerb, car parking a bike lane's distance away from the kerb, and the remainder of the road available to be driven on.
and this is why everyone that is not from melbourne, even victorians living outside of the capital city, just avoid driving in it all together
Very educational. I always wonder about the reasoning behind the decisions made for Melbourne's roads. Thanks.
Hook turns just 'returned' to Sydney! The new bike road down Castlereagh Street uses them at intersections along the route. It was quite a surprise to see the hook turn signs here...
Honestly when I first started driving, I was scared of them. Until I actually got to one, and they're actually easy and makes perfect sense. It's even easier now with signs that tell you when to go
Adelaide has a bus hook turn turning from King William Street onto North Terrace. Car traffic is not allowed to turn right here.
I thought you may have mentioned the NEW hook turns that have been added at where Grattan Street intersects with Cardigan Street and Drummond Street ;)
I always thought the main reason for them was so that right turning traffic didn't delay cars. Otherwise on a two lane road if you have cars turning left in one lane (often giving way to pedestrians) and right in the other, both lanes are blocked and straight though traffic can't get through.
This is indeed the reason for them.
The main reason was not to delay trams. One tram can have 200 or more people on board and it is not fair that they should be delayed by one person in a car. Improved traffic flow was a secondary benefit. Win-win.
It always amazes me how few cyclists know about their ability to do hook turns anywhere. They feel so much less dangerous than trying to stop in the middle of the road in a right turn lane and waiting for a green arrow. I almost always make hook turns when navigating traffic lights on my bike.
That's because they aren't cyclists; the ist at the end of the word means specialist, or possibly enthusiast.
Most people are simply riding a bicycle for a bit of exercise or recreation, yet they are normally car brained.
Remember; there is no true cycling culture in Australia. it's been killed off by the government, public laziness and aggression toward those outside of a car, and of course, car and fuel companies.
I haven't got my Victorian driver's licence, but that's good to know 💯😊
In Germany, hook turns are being used more and more for cyclists. Makes you wait a little longer, but making it way safer. Sad though we don‘t use it for cars, because many tram lines are separated from traffic but then let you turn left from within the separated area, slowing trams down…
A few new Hook turns added recently in Grattan St Carlton, I put the signs up, plenty of people ignoring them.
@TomSmith-cv8hk Yep it was chaos for the first few weeks. People getting a bit better now though.
happy you mentioned bike can do it at aanyintresection
many don't know, and sometimes, cars behind horning
I was in NZ recently and when l said l was from Melbourne the lady responded "oh the city of the dreaded hook turn" 😝
Excellent content. Once saw a set of three permanent signs together at an intersection on St Kilda Rd or Dandenong Road: "No Left Turn", No Right Turn", and "No Centre Turn". I am guessing a U-Turn was all that was allowed 🙂 except No "Right Turn" prohibits that, too. "No Centre Turn" should be made redundant by "No Right Turn. Perhaps they ran out of "No Turns" signs. It has always intrigued me what was going on there …
I like hooks turns for bikes being the default. Having lived in other cities since, they really make it a lot safer.
Victoria used to have another bizarre road rule that has now been eliminated. There was a time when traffic turning right had right of way over oncoming traffic turning left into the same street. However, the right turning traffic still had to give way to oncoming traffic that was going straight ahead, So you would end up with left turning drivers waiting for the right turning drivers who were waiting for cars that were going straight on.
Neat vid. Not sure how people don't get how these work. It's basically the steps of a U-turn without actually turning around, and the added bonus of having traffic signals to assist.
I feel many western drivers should have to experience driving in Asian countries where there are very loose road rules, it would allow us to think more critically and on our feet as drivers.
Hook turn and P-Turn are so good for easing congestions. Most motorists just funnels into a turning lane and bank up traffic going straight.
When I got my licence, you were required to memorise the 6 or so intersections that required hook turns. They were all on Swanston and Elizabeth streets.
I was going to say the same. Yes, there were six, which we had to in order to get our licence, and they were all where there were trams on both streets.
I’d like to see hook turns roll out around Australia.
There are many intersections on parramatta road that would benefit from them.
Bring them back
@@nickclark2278 bruh people on parramatta road can’t even check their blind spot when doing a simple lane change how the heck they supposed to be trusted navigating one of these turns
I only did Hook turn a few times in CBD, corner of Elizabeth and Lonsdale, and corner of Elizabeth and Latrobe
3:54 I believe originally with hook turns you didn't need to wait until the lights changed, if the traffic was clear you could just go. I believe that may be what the article is referring to. It may have been that this 'centre right turn' you were supposed to wait for the lights on the cross street to go green, as you do for a hook turn, but this 'turn against the red light' may be referring to the red light on the street you are turning into.
New Jersy is known (some would say, reviled) for its "jug-handle" turns. These are for left turns, but same idea, only bigger turn. You generally can't make a left turn on a highway. Instead, as you approach an intersection you'll see a turn-out on the right. This will take you to the road that intersects the main one; the one on which you want to turn left. THis turn-out will take you to a smaller intersection or even a give-way (we call it a yield) lane where you can then merge onto the intersecting road you wanted to go left on.
You have a right hand traffic system, so left turns are the ones that cross oncoming traffic.
Thanks for this bit of info. I grew up in Melbourne but there's still so much I don't know! Here's something I wonder if you've done (or can/will do an explainer for): I remember a time when if you were approaching a 4-way intersection, and you wanted to turn left, and meanwhile someone was approacing from the opposite direction facing you and wanted to turn right into the same street, you had to give way. Then at some point in past decades, that rule changed and now the right-turner must give way (with the exception of slip lanes). I also discovered whilst driving in New Zealand a couple of decades ago that they still had that rule where the left-turner had to give way to a right-turner as we used to in Victoria.
It used to be in Victoria that you could rely on the good-old "give way to the right" rule to help you remember. Left-turners had to give way to opposing right-turners, as they were on your right. However in the early '80s, the road rules were standardized somewhat across all states, making driving easier and road rules similar from state to state. Because all the other states already had right-turners give way to left-turners, Victoria changed to be consistent.
@@endotherm Actually, the primary official reason for the change is that the rule in other states is simpler and there would be fewer crashes.
@@Myrtone Had nothing to do with crashes or being simpler -- one gives way to the left, the other to the right. Same complexity, just a different direction gets priority. It was all about standardization of the Australian Road Rules, which started to be introduced at that time (this was one of the first changes). It was followed by a rewrite of each states rules to make it easier and safer when driving in other states. Each state still retained some unique elements, but road markings and signage was pretty similar following the change.
@@endotherm No, the current rule really is simpler according to those in the business - if you are turning right, you give way.
Even under the old rule, those turning left could slip around the corner whenever there was straight ahead traffic passing them.
I checked two newspapers (the Age and the Herald sun) and it give the changed rule being simpler and safer than the then existing rule as a reason for a rule change.
I also checked a 1993 edition of the RACV magazine and it stated the same thing.
The rule also used to discourage use of the left most lane.
I have also read that the rule required left turning drivers to perform a whole lot of safety tasks within seconds and the rule change reduced workload on all parties, also because those turning right no longer need to check in advance if an oncoming vehicle is going straight or turning left.
Remember, even then, those turning right did give way to those going straight, while in other states, then as of now, those turning right gave way to all oncoming traffic.
New Zealand made the same rule change in 2012, and again, simplifying the rules was the primary reason.
@@Myrtone I still don't see your argument for it being simpler. Turning left under the old scheme was simpler -- check for crossing peds, if it is clear you can go. Now, you can go if it is clear AND you don't need to give way to a right-turner. The old right turners simply had to give way to ALL approaching traffic (whether they were turning or not) until it was clear. Now they only need to give way to through approaching traffic. They could also "slip through" if there was no opposing traffic. All it did was shift the emphasis and the responsibility to the other turner. Same safety checks, etc. Nothing is any more or less "easier" or "safer".
Of course the newspapers and RACV are going to tell the public that it is easier, so it is easier for them to swallow a rule change. Most people despise change, that was just to ease it in for drivers that have been driving the old way all their life and resistant to change. It's not like the newspapers and magazines always tell the truth now, is it? And it's just an opinion. I challenge anyone to show empirically how one is safer than the other.
I don't see what you mean by "discourage use of the left most lane" -- all left turners were required to turn from the left lane or as far over as practicable.
The old "simplifying the rules" thing was talking about standardization -- it was simpler to drive in Australia because you didn't have to memorize a bunch of disparate state rules, that's all. And I was "In the business" at the time.
As a driving educator that teaches people to drive daily and created a video for students around hook turns, I found the history section of your video intriguing! The research you put in and displayed was fantastic - great work!
Hook turns are now in the Carlton suburb along Grattan Street when intersecting with Cardigan, Lygon and Drummond Street. It's fantastic for learner drivers and should be taught on a daily basis in the area.
Unfortunately, many people will beep at someone to go when they legally cannot due to the red traffic light on the right. Many disobey this rule, so I think a friendly reminder is always good (which was mentioned in your video at 1:02) - we cannot proceed on the red traffic light (to our right) and must wait until that traffic light is green. 🙏🏾
Thanks very much, and yes I also see this all the time. Glad I got it right!
I remember my first hook turn. I reckon the 50 or so pedestrians I almost plowed into do too 😅
When I was staying in Taiwan it didn't take me much to get used to their hook turns. They have a similar arrangement for left turning for all scooters on their wide intersections as it takes vulnerable road users out of the traffic flow. Large motorcycles and cars can turn without the hook turns. But they have an extremely high amount of traffic lights and have not heard about roundabouts and they don't have presence sensors at their lights so you often have to wait a long time with no one around.
The T junction at Gipps and Wellington st has a bicycle hook turn with a button to activate the lights
Today in melb (23rd) it's well over 30 degrees celsius, making his beanie and jacket seem crazy. You'd think this means he recorded at least a few months ago, but on the day this was posted (21st) if was a full 20 degrees colder than today - so I have absolutely no idea.
There are also hook turns on Grattan St, Carlton. At the intersection with Cardigan St and Lygon St. They were only implemented recently perhaps the past year since Google street views are still showing the old intersections
Wow, Hook turn was all over Australia!
Canberra still has designated hook turns for cyclists, especially along Northbourne Avenue. Didn’t even notice this until I started cycling to work recently.
Almost Got caught in clarendon st south melbourne yesterday. Busy trying to work out which one way st i needed to turn into to get into the lane i was looking for and did not see the signage for the hook turn. Is difficult when you are dealing with other complex driving requirements.
Great video
The intersection of Rathdowne and Queensberry Streets has a dedicated bicycle hook turn with a button to trigger it!
Yes you're right! There are a couple more of those around too, like Faraday Street and Rathdowne Street and Gipps Street and Wellington Street
Im not sure how you would go about it, but you should do a video on melbournes very extensive network of stormwater drains. Some are very old and ornate.
As if anyone is interested in gutter trawling because it’s not like we don’t have enough people trolling around in the gutters in Victoria already!
@@1ihws The drains im talking about are very large, upwards of 3m in height that sprawl onwards for kilometers. Some have waterfalls and very very large chambers in them. Look up the clannies in anzac drain youll find some good culture
@ as if I actually wanted to just hang out in a gutter, examining “culture” in storm water drains; at what point would I ever even think “yeah, I might just go do that one day, I’ll just go hang out in storm water drain for kicks and culture - I really don’t think so.
@@1ihws Aha youd be suprised, its a lot of fun. If you wanted to you could ride a bike from richmond to camberwell all underground.
@@1ihws it seems that you may not be interested in such things. That's cool, would be a very boring world if we were all interested in the same things after all ☺️ suprisingly enough not everyone is interested in the history of hook turns either. But some of us are, and we all congregated here to watch a video about it. Whose to say people wouldn't do the same for a video about secret underground tunnel networks? You just wouldn't be one of them ..and that's cool 😎
A red right-turn arrow solves the problem of right turning cars blocking trams. The reason for hook turns is that there is no room for right-turning lanes in the CBD because of the tram tracks and as such right turning traffic would block the through-lane. This is why hook turns have also been adopted on streets that now have wide cycling lanes: there is no longer room for a right turning lane.
Great vid btw
Interestingly hook turn signs for bicycle lanes have popped up around Sydney CBD.
Haven’t seen anyone on a bicycle do it though 😅
I'm from Sydney, been to Melb awhile ago and recently this August. I would be scared to drive down to Melb personally due to Hook turn, I understand when to go like you would giving way to oncoming traffic except waiting for light to go green. Down side with hook turn I think is when it goes green, the driver to your left going forward or driver behind always beep at you which I had noticed when wondering Melb CBD
Great Video, also to add that there’s been new additional hook turns added in Carlton as well for vehicles only (and no trams) and I m curious about what the implications are for those 🤔🤔
Hooked turns are widely used in Taiwan just for motor scooters to provide a degree safety for riders from oncoming cars when turning.
In that case (with a right hand traffic system) it could be called the Copenhagen left.
Hey Philip. I remember when I was growing up, there was a road rule change that saw right hand turners having to give way to oncoming left hand turners. Was that correct? Did people turning left have to give way to oncoming right hand turners?
Yes. Changed with the move to more uniform national road rules in 1999.
Well done Philip I was always interested in the history of this as well, transport planning in Australia is some of the worst in the world and I have lived in 3 continents the right hook turn is just incredibly dangerous why Victoria hang on to it , only demonstrates the ignorance of those who claim to be police officers and traffic planners. 😊
There are still signed hook turns in Adelaide. Only buses use them though.
The lorikeets were inescapable in this audio 😂
Occupational hazard!
Hook turns for cyclists make a lot of sense. I love took turns... especially being able to sit in one lane before deciding to turn left or right.
Hobart has bike hook turns now!
A most gratifying (but illegal) thing to do, is another city on a multi lane road and not being able to get across to the right turning lane - to get across in the left to the same position that you would hook turn from and wait for the light change.
Yes - I did a hookturn in Sydney. It was extremely busy and I Don’t know what the observers were thinking.
ppl complained about hook turns. meanwhile I saw cars get into "only tram" zone on Swanston and usually part of Bourke St.
You forgot to make special mention of the onesintroduced on the "new" Gratten St in Carlton.