@@wisethabrain1100 I really don't mean to offend anyone in the comments..... however I'm kinda nervous about what the x men will be like when they finally reappear. I DO NOT want a homosexual wolverine. Or a bi sexual storm. God forbid we find out professor x and magneto have been lovers for years which fuels their feud. No no no no
The biggest problem is after Endgame, the people at Marvel Studios skipped a ton of good stories from the comic side and flash forwarded to the Marvel Now era (arguably the worst era of Marvel). Another huge problem is overexposure. Do we need AS MANY Disney+ shows we’ve gotten? No.
@@generalcoulter well that's not really a "money issue" I think that Kevin is spending way too much money in these shows, like up to 150 mill a piece, give or take? And only 6 hours worth/6 ep limiter? That's just not necessary imo cause the Netflix shows only cost like 40-50 million a piece, with more episodes and less spending on CGI and all that
The issue with phase 4 is that too much world building is being attempted, we’ve got multiverse, time travel, gods and heavens, mystical enemies (werewolves etc) young avengers, kang
I agree...the 1st movies were heroes ...now there gods..some can sneeze and blow up a planet........and its starting to feel more like dragonball z ...and i know the commics go that way..but its just not for me..Plus once you add time travel..you can get back all the heroes you want..and that makes a hero dying less painful...`a wel he can come back `
I've been a die-hard fan of the MCU for a long time, but for the first time, I'm reaching the point where I'm just not motivated to watch every show and movie. This is largely because the movies and shows at this point all tend to follow the same general plot points, especially for origin stories, and each project feels more interested in setting up new characters than getting to know the lead character the project is supposed to be about. I agree they need to narrow their focus on a smaller pool of new characters we can really get attached to.
One of the weakness of Phase 4 is that we don’t have a clear overarching main storyline. Once phase 2/3 kicked into gear, we knew Thanos was coming down the line. In Phase 4, it feels as chaotic as everybody returning from the blip. Some great individual stories, but not sure how it’s tied together.
So in short, the problem with Phase 4 is that people are being impatient? Because if that’s your point, I agree. The overarching plot of the Infinity Saga became clear in Phase 2, having just been teased in Phase 1’s last film, in its end credits scene nonetheless. And people complain of this apparent lack of overarching plot when Phase 4 hasn’t even aged 2 years yet? Again, people need to chill and give Marvel time. In a blink of an eye, who knows, it’s already 2028, and people are once again ultra hyped for a new big baddie that, like Thanos, was a decade in the making.
@@JamesGroot I agree fans can be impatient, but Phase 1 is unique because nobody ever imagined a shared universe nor a main storyline was possible. I’m remember watching Avengers in the theaters going in wondering if that experiment would work. Phase 4 feels like multiple issues at once… multiverse, gods, secret invasion, and street level problems. I’m hoping we look back like you said, and see a clearer picture of everything
@@kingsfan_offnight5025 i’m hoping as well that we’ll see a clearer picture of Marvel’s future soon enough, so until then, maybe we can cut Marvel some slack. After all, we owe it to them, giving 11 years of entertainment that paid off very nicely in Endgame. Besides, Phase 4 is not dim at all. On the contrary, there are many memorable stuff too: Wandavision’s unique story telling First MCU animated project Kung Fu in Marvel (Shang Chi) Mental health focus (Moon Knight) Shoutouts to beloved non-MCU Marvel IP (No way home villains and Peters 2 and 3, Dr Strange 2’s Illuminati, I’d argue Kingpin and Matt Murdock) Marvel is expanding. And the story is not done unraveling. Let’s give it time. Next thing we know, all of us are being hyped again for the next big team-up maybe in 2025!
@@JamesGroot I agree that it's too early to complain about a lack of an overarching story, but the MCU movies aren't even cleaning up their own plot threads. For example, we have three movies now with no mention of a stillborn Celestial doing god knows what to the integrity of the planet.
@@kjhuang which brings us back to patience. Two Celestials already appeared in Thor 4 after first appearing in Eternals. Zeus and Omnipotent city are reminders of the grander cosmic lore in the Marvel Universe. In under two years, i think it’s prudent to be patient. We’ll be getting Adam Warlock 6 years after his first introduction. Thanos made his first semi-impactful appearance in GOTG in 2014, 2 years after he was teased in Avengers 1. He returned another long 4 years later in Infinity War. It’s just been two years. The MCU looks like it’s currently not handling 2 simple plotlines like it did before in its first full decade of existence: Thanos’ Infinity goals and Avengers assembling. it’s clearly setting up a quite a few, and an earlier comment in this thread even took notice of them, and I trust Kevin Feige can pull all of it off. The concept of Multiverse was teased as fake news in Far From Home in 2019, and 3 years later now, it’s been a plot point in WandaVision, Loki, What If, No Way Home. and Dr Strange 2. Other dimensions are also being tackled: Shang Chi’s TaLo, Noor Dimension in Ms Marvel, the Dark Dimension in Dr Strange. The Young Avengers and the Thunderbolts look to be getting their set-up as well with characters such as Ms Marvel, Billy, Tommy, Kate Bishop, Yelena, Bucky, Abomination, Zemo, and Val. All these in Phase 4’s 2 years of existence. And we dwell on Tiamat’s baby corpse in the Indian Ocean not getting a follow-up? Even the damage that the NYC battle incurred in Avengers (2012) was first referenced 4 long years later (Civil War 2016, then in 2017, Homecoming introduced the Department of Damage Control) I believe when we get there in due time, we’ll look back and say “wow they did set these things up fairly nicely.” Remember when there was pay-off with Steve and Peggy finally dancing? That took 8 years. This is all fiction by the way, so I guess let’s just enjoy the ride? I’m enjoying. Had been a fan and still am. There’s still lots more characters and storylines Marvel has to offer. I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in investing trust in Marvel because 2 years of decent projects will probably lead to something, just as how the first few years of the MCU, no matter how modest the reception then, gave birth to the biggest film franchise the MCU grew to be. 🤷🏻♂️
Phase 1- elementary school Phase 2- middle school Phase 3- high school endgame graduation and 1 last summer , with all our closest friends weve been with for those 18 years and our two best friends Cap and Tony, but now we go our separate ways off to different colleges and thats where we get to PHASE 4 - College 1st year at college , Experiment, try new things , make new friends, have some old friends up to visit , takes a while to find its feet in this new environment, some big highlights some moments where you miss the days at school Mcu is just trying to find it's new identity outside of the infinity saga, will be some hiccups
In my opinion Phase 4 is all about female lead origins story or introduction and multiverse that didn't even connect Black Widow (Yelena & Natasha) Eternals (Sersi) Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) Ms. Marvel She-Hulk Moon Knight (Scarlet Scarab) Love & Thunder (Jane Foster) Multiverse: Loki (Sylvie) WandaVision What If No Way Home Multiverse of Madness (Chavez)
Yep. It seems unlike phases 1 to 3 where there was a tight focus in telling stories that excited audiences and built up to the next installment, there's now a more commercial 'churn as much content out through various channels ' mentality at Disney. Consequently, it seems they've tried to juggle too much and there's some oversaturation making the whole experience a little less exciting.
Agreed. I hope Disney will do a Marvel Knights type of run in the MCU eventually. I'm starting to check out from the one-liners and formulaic "safe" ideas. Sadly, I don't think they're going to pull it off if it does happen.
What has negatively affected Phase 4 is Disney+. When P4 was announced, there was only 5 movies and 5 shows announced. Then slowly after each movie and show releases, we get more and more shows announced and it’s still under the umbrella of Phase 4. We’re getting spin-offs of spin-offs. Agatha, Echo, Wakanda series, and there always has to be the next Marvel show to keep people subscribed. Its becoming a quantity over quality matter now. I remember when we got 2 Mcu projects a year. What will reignite the Mcu for the general public I believe will be Deadpool and Xmen/F4.
Overall I feel like we are being unfair to the MCU... if they kept the same formula as the original movies people would get tired of that. They are making different types of movies and TV shows and people complain about that... Also previous phases movies really were not that far apart in tone compared to Phase 4 projects
They literally called phase 1-3 formulaic just for them to try and do something about it and it’s still not enough ya know now I do understand you have to do it different AND do it well. But I concur with your comment overall
Plus it’s been only a year and a half of Phase 4 and people are rushing to see what Avengers-level type of story the MCU has in store. People are just expecting too much from Marvel. If anything, it just says something about Marvel being beautifully successful that all eyes are now on Marvel.
We’ve already had 12 projects in phase 4 in 18 months. Back in 2017-18 people thought we’d have marvel fatigue with only THREE movies a year. It’s clearly over saturated
To be honest I think Chadwick Boseman/Black panther was suppose to be the next pillar after endgame. But with his passing I think it messed everything up.
While I agree with some of the problems John raised. I really believe it’s mostly poor story telling, sub par villains, low stakes, and minimal pay off. It’s like the universe hit reset after endgame, but it shouldn’t have. So many questions have been posed and Marvel has done a terrible job answering and if they do they answer them in a unsatisfying way.
To be fair, the MCU starting off wasn’t that great either. It was cool seeing the Avengers meet for the first time but the quality of the MCU was entertaining but somewhat average. It wasn’t until late Phase 2 where MCU started to hit its best strides. Now the MCU basically has to start over since they are moving to a new story arc focusing on the Multiverse.
@@ralphpal There were good movies but I’m saying phase 2, particular Guardians of the Galaxy/Winter Soldier, was when MCU consistently started knocking it out of the park back to back, once the Infinity Stone storyline became more concrete. Even by the time Endgame happened, most MCU movies by themselves were at best entertaining but were nowhere close to masterpieces.
I feel like the MCU’s plans were really messed up by Chadwick Boseman’s death. I’ve would have been the figurehead they need. And I imagine there would have been more focus around him.
But why would Black panther be a leader for a group? Now If you made a movie about that and his people are upset about that Then that might be a good movie
The problem is that each phase had an Avengers movie lined up. You knew the solo movies had a purpose and an objective of seeing these characters team up at some point. Now? I don"t even know if we'll even get an Avengers movie with all these Phase 4 characters. There is no build up towards anything.
MCU is suffering from success. Ever since Endgame, fans expect every film to be a spectacle like Infinity War & Endgame. They forgot it took us 10 years to get to Endgame. Also Phase 1, 2 & 3 are not perfect either.
MCU would do well to look at Netflix’s mistake of churning out way too much content with low quality content. Just slow down and take it easy instead of being greedy to get in the fans pockets or their hands will slap back at you picking at them too much. I think we were all expecting the multi-universe of madness to tie in a little bit more of everything we have seen the past year but instead just more plots to have to remember and keep track of.
For me love MCU but always thought there’s better out there. For me the biggest problems with mcu is 1. Lack of an identity 2. Lack a clear figure head 3. Over use of comedy 4. Hiring poor and lazy writers and directors 5. Too many stories going with no end goal. 6 when they hire good directors they interfere with the projects. 7. Quantity over quality
I wonder how much the unfortunate loss of Chadwick Boseman has contributed to the struggles. His loss coupled with Captain Marvel not being well received and it leaves a large void in the “Steve and Tony” roles
I feel like people are just exhausted from keeping up with these films. They’ve been repeating the same tropes and they all end the same way and people are noticing that now especially. Also the endings have been so anticlimactic as well. I feel like post Trump and post Covid, the times are more cynical now more than ever. What Marvel achieved in the last decade is now tone deaf in the 2020s. People are more into darker movies and shows like The new Batman and even The Boys. Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad are doing well because audiences like antiheroes more than the clean, funny superhero trope.
@@mr.newmanthadreamer8434 you said the world is more cynical because of Trump therefore people don’t like the same marvel movies as they would have before. And I’m disagreeing that it would be different or better if Hillary had been president instead.
It's mostly important to know that Disney has become super more reliance on Marvel for everything on a content basis, has literally dip It's overall quality as whole. When their other brands like Star Wars or Pixar aren't heavily further rely on much to push certain notoriety for the actual company.
I think Feige realizes that he can't recreate the magic of the Infinity Arc for a second time and so he's giving directors more freedom to experiment with the MCU so that he can see what styles resonate the most. The problem with that is he doesn't have as tight a grip on the overall narrative for the MCU going forward and so it seems sort of aimless for the time being. When he finally has a clear vision, I think you'll see the content start to tighten up a little more.
I think the issue is that nothing feels connected. Each movie feels like it is independent of the rest. Eternals was one of the first phase 4 movies and no one has even mentioned the giant petrified celestial sticking out of the planet. I feel like that would be a major concern.
@@brandonpick1486 what does around mean? It may be true, but when watching the movies there are no solid reference points. No way home is 1 year after far from home. Love and thunder is over two years since Endgame. Otherwise I can't place where Shang Chi or Dr Strange fit in.
@@brandonpick1486 ok, the end scene is a year later, since MJ be and Ned are going to MIT. But, the point is that the shows don't give a good be account of where they fit within one another. The events eternal are earth breaking. Literally, there is a bring coming out of the earth.
@@toughfff712 yeah true i'm not entirely sure where every things else falls in the time line. But you gotta look at phase 4 like its phase 1. When phase 1 was going on most people had no idea that it would lead to the avengers. Let alone that every movie was connected. I mean i realized they were connected when Tony walks into the bar to talk to Ross. But the majority of people had no idea they where all connected until the first Avengers movie came out.
Marvel just isn't the big event anymore. It's oversaturated the market. Endgame wrapped things up so beautifully that it really felt like the end of a great TV series! Everything now feels like a cash grab!
I think the biggest cause of people feeling like the MCU has lost steam is because people are expecting to have the next Thanos-level villain show up right now. People forget how many movies came before we got our first glimpse at Thanos. The whole reason the Infinity Saga was so popular was because we cared about these characters that took years to build up. People just need to be patient and open to new characters being introduced. Simple
Thank you! Finally someone said it. People are asking way to much in a short amount not remembering what it took to get to that endgame level. We are starting again, and soon people will realize how wrong they are. Kevin Feige didn't suddenly forget how to make good movies and stories
Marvel also has to deal with a remarkable increase in expectations given the mega success of the decade it had prior. People, in all honesty, are just being too hard and unfair on Marvel. The MCU is doing fine, give it time, people. Phase 4 is only 1.5 years old.
I always thought Black Panther was gonna be one of the characters that stepped into the Captain America/Ironman lead. Not recasting the character IMO is a mistake
I’m so sick of the phase 4 slander and Infinity Saga revisionism. Yes, some projects from phase four sucked. The same can be said for phase one, phase two, and phase three.
The mcu haven't been the same to me since end game. It's now become a leave your brain at the door. It's a jumbled mess. Still makes money but so did transformers.
Phase 4 is a disconnected mess of movies/shows with characters we don't care about. Nothing is at stake, there is no big bad or existential crisis. It's become a checkbox of ideology over substance.
A problem I have with the MCU is the musical composition. The movies lack any real memorable music scores either than Black Panther. And no I’m not referring to the licensed music that is used such as Black Sabbath’s Iron Man and all the music in Guardians Of The Galaxy.
One of the reasons why Phase 4 sucks is how many titles are in it, it’s been 13 movies/shows thus far with no end in site. Over Saturation is hurting the MCU
My wife is considered the average movie goer. Phase 1-3 she would be at the theater before me. Now I can’t get her to watch the new Doctor Strange for any reason. She looks at the thumbnail and is just not interested. This sucks.
Here is my list: 1. Overuse of humor- too many joke (much of the humor is childish and lacks the wit of older movies) Distract from serious moment or take your out of the movie 2. Poor writing- Why this is make believe, there needs to be some logic. Thing just thing happen to happen. Solutions just appear. Many of the ending feel undeserved. 3. Out of place end credit scenes- This is a small complaint but many times they feel out of place and completely don't fit the feel of the movie. 4. Main characters are not main characters in movies- Thor, Black Widow, and Dr. Strange felt like side characters in there own movies. 5. In your face diversity- Diversity in movies is good as long as it feel natural. There have been have been too many moments that felt like virtue signal then good store telling. It also feel like virtue character are showing up many characters. 6. Not understand that your are in a connect universe- This is a continual problem from early phase. Having big problem happen and not reference or ignore the presence of other heroes. This was a big problem in Eternal as the excuse for them not helping with Thanos sucked. 7. The lost of keystone character- You don't have DC universe without Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. You can't have the Marvel without Cap, Ironman, and Thor. Also you wants originals not substitute. This true in comics as it is in movie 8. Charisma character- While new character are interesting, they don't have the charisma of Tony Stark. Also many of the carryover character from other phases are losing their uniqueness and becoming bland stereotype characters 9 Telling not showing- the writer tells us how we should feel about characters, but the story and actions on the screen don't match 10. No real imagination- It is the same formula over and over again.
It is just quantity over quality. They are releasing a project every month rather than a project every few months. They should let the fans breathe and wait for the next project.
From my perspective, the real issue is a lack of good villains. That said, most of this is about Marvel not doing a good job of showing the continued fallout from Endgame. You wouldn’t expect things to be the same after a universe-wide war.
The biggest problem with phase 4 is that phases 1-3 focused on telling a good story that maybe had some thematic messages here or there. phase 4 has been focused on telling a message that maybe has some ok story telling instead.
I feel like they had hope Chadwick Bosemans Black Panther to take on the role of leader for the new phase or perhaps they’re waiting on Mr Fantastic or their version of Professor X
We’re seeing the effects of Feige spreading himself out too much & too many new people making decisions that aren’t turning out quality & cohesion because of the glut of projects.
I think the reason is some fans including myself have started to skip some of the movies and TV shows and we have no idea what's going on. In the early phases all of the movies are a "must see". In phase 4 the combination of too much content and uninteresting heroes have made me skip some of them.
Phase 4 is fine, it's had movies and TV series that fans think are top tier, mid tier or bottom tier in their own personal MCU rankings, just like phase 1-3. Just need to be patient, and if you just aren't enjoying it, it's ok to hop off the train. The MCU is resetting the board, let's see where it goes
The problem with phase 4 is simple. Terrible writing. Terrible direction. Both of these and other things has lead to to terrible characters and terrible stories.
I'd like to counter your first point: I actually believe the movies are too identical and too tied together for anything special to surface. Think back to how different GotG was to Cap Winter Soldier and how those were different from Dr strange and Black Panther
As a movie fan (not just a marvel fan) it's pretty annoying that these movies look so ugly these days. They clearly don't have enough time for special effects. When you look at the earlier phases, those movies felt finished.
Too convoluted. Too much green screen No clear vision. Getting too deep into the lore and introducing characters casual fans aren’t familiar with and quite frankly don’t care about. Diluting the brand with the D+ series Lack of star power Lazy writing Too heavy handed
So we spent the last 10 years complaining that the MCU films had no personality and that Disney needs to let directors do their thing. Now we’re complaining that movies don’t fit the MCU anymore.
If this is “too complicated” for the average fan, then they should stop watching. If you take the time to watch everything, the direction is clear. Phase 4 is about setting the stage for the next threat, which is Kang and the multiversal war which was clearly explained in Loki. And we are seeing Kang TWICE in 2023. All of the puzzle pieces will connect more as we progress but as it stands, it’s clear enough Imo.
I also think there is a lack of clear “overarching” story. Like with phase 1 it felt clear we were building to an avengers team-up, in phases 2 + 3 it was clear we were building to thanos & the infinity stones. Phase 4 is likely leading to Secret Wars but it super unclear. Every post credits scene feels like it sets up entirely new characters unconnected to any of the others
This is just simple. Once Endgame ended they should have cut it off. That was the end of the story and now it just feels like money grabs and the movies are becoming more and more corny
Totally agree about so many contridictions. Here is a marvel glaring mistake: Thanos was a deviant and weren't the eternals supposed to only get involved if deviants were involved? Yet they didn't. Why
It also makes no sense for Thanos to have a brother that was introduced at the end of Eternals, when they say the Eternals aren't "real" lol but in the comics we know they're real beings.
And also, the Eternals were just humans given op powers by the celestials, not cosmic beings made in celestial factories, that happens to look like humans.
i remember, iron man 2 still mediocre until today and 3 (yep thats insult to mandarin character), bad captain marvel movie, agent of shields (that series mediocre), I'm still tolerate thor 2 than love and thunder...
Why is nonone addressing the Elephant in the room? It's because of Disney Plus. MCU has been making quality movies, but the shows have been pretty hit or miss.
I've felt the opposite for the most part. I've far more enjoyed the likes of Moon Knight, Loki and WandaVision over any of the movies. Black Widow, Dr Strange, Eternals, now Thor have been underwhelming for me. I dont even consider Shang Chi or Far From Home to be top tier Marvel either.
Yes I definitely agree there. Disney plus shows have been really miss. I wouldn’t even say hit or miss to me the the only good show has been Loki. Everything else was crap even Wandavision.
The technical quality has taken a nose dive since phase 4 began. There are some exceptions like No Way Home and WandaVision but it's been terrible for the most part. Dr Strange MoM and Thor L&T were massively disappointing because we had good expectations. The movies are not just poorly written, they're also poorly shot and developed. Some of the VFX is many shots in these movies are criminal in 2022.
The MCU ain't creating as many memorable characters or moments, oversaturation big part due to the Disney plus shows, the multiverse so far disappointing people
Things do feel overly complicated atm. They're introducing a shit ton of new ideas without giving people a chance to acclimate to each one. You see Loki and think okay in Spider-Man NWH they'll expand on it or in Doctor Strange MVM they'll expand but in each on they just introduce their own thing and it makes it all confusing
It's not a problem. They built up from Phase 1 to Phase 3. Phase 4 is starting over as if it was a new Phase 1 and they are building up for the next decade. Everyone wanting Marvel knock it out of the park every time is just unrealistic. They are building an identity. Kevin's already said that. My only problem is we know Marvel's bag of heroes and they aren't really tying them together/overlapping them yet, but I believe they will soon.
It is a problem. These arent comic books and a reset like such doesn't work. It clearly isnt working. They've had three chances to make sense of the multiverse being the center of this new arc (Loki, SM No Way Home, and Multiverse of Madness) and they STILL haven't set in front of the audience what exactly is going on. Im fine with new characters and im fine with way more material. Thats fine they're bUiLdInG aN iDeNtiTy, but it isnt helping the storytelling.
Agree. In conclusion really, people need to have patience. People gave the MCU patience in Phase 1, gave the MCU a whole decade to pay off, and that patience made the MCU the juggernaut that it is today. (Phase 4 is just 1.5 yr old for crying out loud) Again, people just need to have patience. Marvel is doing just fine. ☺️
the reason people think it's not working is because this internet age of immediate consumption has no patience. Of course a reset is necessary. The last movie was "Endgame." I wasn't even expecting ANY MORE after Endgame. They had to meet to figure out what's Next? As an audience no one could imagine what was next. Now people complaining as if Loki and NWH and everything else in Phase 4 is straight garbage. NWH isn't even a year old and it was Amazing! And Kevin said like last month we'll understand the bigger plan soon but people have no patience.
Disney + has confused a lot of people. There has been no clear leader or villian in Phase 4. That's what I see is the issue. Hell, saw Thor: 4 tonight and now Hercules is the new "main" villian? Ugh
For me, none of these movies have an identity. Same super smash of CGI, jokes every other minute, forgettable villain. Just no soul to these movies. Just assembly line movies.
The big budget and cgi I’ve been saying is what’s ruining the movies they need someone who’s passionate of film making cinematography etc the use of film skills to make a work of art not a computer generated film so I 100% agree with you
For me, I think it's because they're introducing so many new characters and we don't know how those characters tie into each other. Phases 1-3, we knew the characters were going to become the Avengers. We got a sneak peek of Thanos in the end credits for the first Avengers, so we also knew that everything was going to build up into defeating him. Phase 4 is, presumably, the starting point of Secret Wars, but like John said, there's a lack of identity. We just have a bunch of characters and we don't know how they're going to come together since everything is so cosmic now.
Good points. I agree with you, but I think it has more to do with introducing characters for the sake of introducing them and padding out Disney+ content--but at the expense of a great story. Case in point: the Agatha Harkness they're going to release later on. While an interesting enough villain, I don't think she was great enough to warrant her own show. Moon Knight was the biggest letdown of phase 4 for me personally. He has an extremely interesting backstory and huge potential for a series. Sadly, the limited 6-ep screen times, great story ideas that were unfortunately half-in-the-bag, and the typical throwaway MCU villain killed my excitement.
@@willistan3562 Agreed on the points about the shows. I think shows should be left for more complex stories that actually build upon the MCU, like Loki, and not just introducing characters just because. As for Moon Knight, I think his story was essential to the MCU, but it definitely needed another 2-4 episodes. These 6 episode shows just aren't cutting it. Ms. Marvel had a good first episode and a decent 2nd, but the show could've just been a movie with the pacing it has.
Honestly my biggest problem is there’s a lot of content to watch. Regarding The Who is the Ironman and Cap now I think it was supposed to be Spider-Man and Black Panther but with the Sony Complications and Chads unfortunate passing it has affected everything
I feel like a major problem is Chadwick Bosemans death. In my eyes he was going to be a major figure head in these movies and then he died and they scrambled to pickup the pieces. It’s part of the reason I think he should have been recast. But that’s just me what do I know. I also do agree with the over saturation it’s been too much.
Marvel is a cinematic institution now - ostensibly the first of its kind for generations of moviegoers and superhero fans. I think one of the problems, then, and why we’re getting bombarded with characters that don’t seem to have a clear path is that AS this cinematic institution, part of the MCU’s goal/obligation has gone from simply making the best Marvel Comics adaptations as they can to being a whole other kind of leader and barometer for American pop culture. So with BLACK PANTHER, CAPTAIN and MS MARVEL, and SHANG CHI , they’ve gone from leading with a great story to leading with how they can be everything to all people. Suddenly, the MCU Is this huge element in a young person’s development, so with a track record they can sort of lean on and take for granted, every movie or TV show has to be the first of this superhero of this race or that gender or lifestyle. Maybe there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but naturally, I think it plays a part in this line of thinking in which Feige now has a responsibility to more than just the fanbase or to tell good superhero stories. These movies and shows seem to have taken on or been saddled with literally determining or affecting how this girl or person of color or other member of a minority group will think of themselves and feel represented and included BECAUSE this cultural behemoth has made a auperhero that looks and acts like them. I’m not a lifelong Marvel Comics fan and don’t know squat about The Eternals, but I remember the flack that the first CAPTAIN MARVEL movie got for letting its star put too much focus on the politics of empowered, arguably bi or asexual yet otherwise female superhero. I also remember multiple stories of race and gender swapping characters in THE ETERNALS. I don’t necessarily think or hope that made it the least popular MCU film, but as Campea says, Kevin Feige is one man. No matter his position in the company, there’s only so much he can do and control, and right now, he isn’t just responsible for representing Marvel onscreen. Because of the MCU’s success and because some of its movies like BLACK PANTHER have had or been said to have had wider ranging implications going way beyond just pleasing audiences and making money, there seems to be an expectation of Marvel - BECAUSE it is now so popular and almost ubiquitous in American culture and how it’s represented - there’s no longer the luxury of just focusing on certain characters for story reasons and telling stories that are also part of a really good, larger one. Now, they almost don’t even have to advertise or promote individual MCU movies. The brand, alone, and its cultural currency is being taken for granted somewhat so that Feige and others can crank out content left and right, but because it’s the vaunted MCU, being good as stories seems to no longer be as important as Marvel or Disney being the first or the best at depicting and promoting a leading superhero that is Muslim or Asian or LGBTQ, etc. Whether anyone believes me or not, I’m not opposed to that representation or to those stories being told, but just what we’ve seen lately with Disney theme parks and an increasingly loud opposition and demand for a return to just being entertaining and that being the main goal speaks, I think, to the potentiality of this kind of social obligation being a significant reason that maybe we’re seeing an MCU that is overextending itself for completely new reasons and being so confident in the brand after 14 years that no one is rushing to do what these movies became successful for doing in the first place - ie, using a handful of engaging and distinct characters to headline solo films good enough to also lay increasingly larger bread crumbs on a path towards another bigger story involving everyone.
Should add Lack of Cohesion to the list, phases 1 through 3 although individual movies, all were part of 1 cohesive story that was playing in the background at all times, Phase 4 doesnt have that so the films dont have that "must see" feel that all the previous films had when you felt like you HAD to watch every movie or you would miss a piece of the story
None of these films feel like they are building to something. Everything is spinning in all different directions and there is no real weight to anything going on. If Kang is the next big bad he should be getting far more connections in the build up to his main arc.
Yes and No, the comic book industry has its own problem of getting actual new fans get into the market especially since it relies on a person needing to learn how to get comics (especially when doing it through comic issues). The MCU really would need to not make so much stinkers that it kills them truly. Which is a low-medium chance if they don't come up with a brand/character lead to carry future MCU projects. So far the peeps carrying MCU rn are Loki, Wanda, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and Moon Knight because the fandom for Oscar Isaac is crazy.
@@heroicgangster9981 yeah but I meant by the sheer number of realities introduced, you’ve got gods, Celestials, a quantum realm, clandestines (which have nothing to do with the actual Clan Destine comic), alternate universes, a cosmic side, a magical side, aliens, Inhumans, the upcoming Atlantis in Black Panther II, the TVA, and soon to be introduced mutants on top of that etc etc. The casual movie goer will have to keep track of all that.
The terrible editing & trimming down of the films has been killing me; Black Widow, Eternals, Dr Strange 2 & now Thor. All of them have this feeling of necessary atmosphere & character building being cut out and it’s hurting the final products giving a sense of rush & shoving through the plot like the audience suffers collective ADHD.
I'd add 6) Requires viewers to have seen every other movie and Disney+ MCU show. For a casual viewer who has never seen WandaVision, Dr Strange 2 won't make sense, since Wanda's motivations are poorly explained in the movie. Yes, in the movie she says repeatedly that she wants her kids. Casual viewers will ask: "Which kids?" If you hadn't seen NWH, you'd ask why Wong is the Sorcerer Supreme, because Dr Strange 2 doesn't tell you. Whenever Kang or Ms Marvel shows up in a movie, is that movie going to explain who they are, or will Loki and Ms Marvel be required viewing? Amy is correct. And if people think the MCU is getting out of hand, let me direct you to Star Wars, where you have to watch movies, D+ shows, read books, read comics, and play video games. Star Wars is referencing things, places, events, and people who the casual audience has never seen or heard about. Disney+ and other non-film media should be support material, containing deeper explanations. They should not be primary viewing, at least not for casual viewers.
Where are the Avengers?? It's like they don't exist anymore. Just my opinion but it's like phase 1-3 never happened. Maybe we are not in the 616 universe anymore.
It doesn't matter what it's called. But there is something missing in all of the recent projects. Other than Spider-Man everything else has just been ok at best.
22:52 As someone who doesn't have Disney+, I really resent the fact that Disney+ exclusive shows are now integral to the continuity in the movies. It's not just "I have to watch all the previous MCU movies" anymore; it's "I have to watch all the previous MCU movies and TV shows on a subscription for an at-home service and I don't even have the option of going to a theater for those shows".
@@kjhuang l have a site that works, that's where l watch my movies (even the recent release love and thunder) and it doesn't spam. But l respect your choice
The problem is terrible writing and direction. The stories and characters in phases 4 range from below average to terrible because the writing and direction is terrible. Simple as that.
For another sports analogy, the stars retired and now the franchise is in rebuild mode and trying to find a new identity revolved around the core of this new saga.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
“Over saturation”. 100%. To quote the Incredibles: “when everyone one is super, no one is”
Also to quote John Campea.
Definitely agree on more Shang Chi. He doesn't have to be the leader of the Avengers, but he should be a central character we are investing in.
Yeah but he is not a strong character to rally behind so nope .
@@wisethabrain1100 I really don't mean to offend anyone in the comments..... however I'm kinda nervous about what the x men will be like when they finally reappear. I DO NOT want a homosexual wolverine. Or a bi sexual storm. God forbid we find out professor x and magneto have been lovers for years which fuels their feud. No no no no
The biggest problem is after Endgame, the people at Marvel Studios skipped a ton of good stories from the comic side and flash forwarded to the Marvel Now era (arguably the worst era of Marvel).
Another huge problem is overexposure. Do we need AS MANY Disney+ shows we’ve gotten? No.
@@generalcoulter well that's not really a "money issue" I think that Kevin is spending way too much money in these shows, like up to 150 mill a piece, give or take? And only 6 hours worth/6 ep limiter? That's just not necessary imo cause the Netflix shows only cost like 40-50 million a piece, with more episodes and less spending on CGI and all that
The issue with phase 4 is that too much world building is being attempted, we’ve got multiverse, time travel, gods and heavens, mystical enemies (werewolves etc) young avengers, kang
Exactly! and Im kinda over the introduction of another secret group or entities watching over mankind
I agree...the 1st movies were heroes ...now there gods..some can sneeze and blow up a planet........and its starting to feel more like dragonball z ...and i know the commics go that way..but its just not for me..Plus once you add time travel..you can get back all the heroes you want..and that makes a hero dying less painful...`a wel he can come back `
I've been a die-hard fan of the MCU for a long time, but for the first time, I'm reaching the point where I'm just not motivated to watch every show and movie. This is largely because the movies and shows at this point all tend to follow the same general plot points, especially for origin stories, and each project feels more interested in setting up new characters than getting to know the lead character the project is supposed to be about. I agree they need to narrow their focus on a smaller pool of new characters we can really get attached to.
One of the weakness of Phase 4 is that we don’t have a clear overarching main storyline. Once phase 2/3 kicked into gear, we knew Thanos was coming down the line. In Phase 4, it feels as chaotic as everybody returning from the blip. Some great individual stories, but not sure how it’s tied together.
So in short, the problem with Phase 4 is that people are being impatient? Because if that’s your point, I agree.
The overarching plot of the Infinity Saga became clear in Phase 2, having just been teased in Phase 1’s last film, in its end credits scene nonetheless. And people complain of this apparent lack of overarching plot when Phase 4 hasn’t even aged 2 years yet?
Again, people need to chill and give Marvel time. In a blink of an eye, who knows, it’s already 2028, and people are once again ultra hyped for a new big baddie that, like Thanos, was a decade in the making.
@@JamesGroot I agree fans can be impatient, but Phase 1 is unique because nobody ever imagined a shared universe nor a main storyline was possible. I’m remember watching Avengers in the theaters going in wondering if that experiment would work. Phase 4 feels like multiple issues at once… multiverse, gods, secret invasion, and street level problems. I’m hoping we look back like you said, and see a clearer picture of everything
@@kingsfan_offnight5025 i’m hoping as well that we’ll see a clearer picture of Marvel’s future soon enough, so until then, maybe we can cut Marvel some slack. After all, we owe it to them, giving 11 years of entertainment that paid off very nicely in Endgame.
Besides, Phase 4 is not dim at all. On the contrary, there are many memorable stuff too:
Wandavision’s unique story telling
First MCU animated project
Kung Fu in Marvel (Shang Chi)
Mental health focus (Moon Knight)
Shoutouts to beloved non-MCU Marvel IP (No way home villains and Peters 2 and 3, Dr Strange 2’s Illuminati, I’d argue Kingpin and Matt Murdock)
Marvel is expanding. And the story is not done unraveling. Let’s give it time. Next thing we know, all of us are being hyped again for the next big team-up maybe in 2025!
@@JamesGroot I agree that it's too early to complain about a lack of an overarching story, but the MCU movies aren't even cleaning up their own plot threads. For example, we have three movies now with no mention of a stillborn Celestial doing god knows what to the integrity of the planet.
@@kjhuang
which brings us back to patience.
Two Celestials already appeared in Thor 4 after first appearing in Eternals.
Zeus and Omnipotent city are reminders of the grander cosmic lore in the Marvel Universe. In under two years, i think it’s prudent to be patient.
We’ll be getting Adam Warlock 6 years after his first introduction.
Thanos made his first semi-impactful appearance in GOTG in 2014, 2 years after he was teased in Avengers 1. He returned another long 4 years later in Infinity War.
It’s just been two years.
The MCU looks like it’s currently not handling 2 simple plotlines like it did before in its first full decade of existence: Thanos’ Infinity goals and Avengers assembling. it’s clearly setting up a quite a few, and an earlier comment in this thread even took notice of them, and I trust Kevin Feige can pull all of it off.
The concept of Multiverse was teased as fake news in Far From Home in 2019, and 3 years later now, it’s been a plot point in WandaVision, Loki, What If, No Way Home. and Dr Strange 2.
Other dimensions are also being tackled: Shang Chi’s TaLo, Noor Dimension in Ms Marvel, the Dark Dimension in Dr Strange.
The Young Avengers and the Thunderbolts look to be getting their set-up as well with characters such as Ms Marvel, Billy, Tommy, Kate Bishop, Yelena, Bucky, Abomination, Zemo, and Val.
All these in Phase 4’s 2 years of existence. And we dwell on Tiamat’s baby corpse in the Indian Ocean not getting a follow-up?
Even the damage that the NYC battle incurred in Avengers (2012) was first referenced 4 long years later (Civil War 2016, then in 2017, Homecoming introduced the Department of Damage Control)
I believe when we get there in due time, we’ll look back and say “wow they did set these things up fairly nicely.” Remember when there was pay-off with Steve and Peggy finally dancing? That took 8 years.
This is all fiction by the way, so I guess let’s just enjoy the ride?
I’m enjoying. Had been a fan and still am. There’s still lots more characters and storylines Marvel has to offer. I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in investing trust in Marvel because 2 years of decent projects will probably lead to something, just as how the first few years of the MCU, no matter how modest the reception then, gave birth to the biggest film franchise the MCU grew to be. 🤷🏻♂️
Phase 1- elementary school
Phase 2- middle school
Phase 3- high school
endgame graduation and 1 last summer , with all our closest friends weve been with for those 18 years and our two best friends Cap and Tony, but now we go our separate ways off to different colleges and thats where we get to
PHASE 4 - College
1st year at college , Experiment, try new things , make new friends, have some old friends up to visit , takes a while to find its feet in this new environment, some big highlights some moments where you miss the days at school
Mcu is just trying to find it's new identity outside of the infinity saga, will be some hiccups
Phase 1: Assembling the Avengers
Phase 2 & 3: Infinity Saga
Phase 4: ↕⬆↗➡↘⬇↙⬅↖↔⤴⤵
In my opinion Phase 4 is all about female lead origins story or introduction and multiverse that didn't even connect
Black Widow (Yelena & Natasha)
Eternals (Sersi)
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)
Ms. Marvel
She-Hulk
Moon Knight (Scarlet Scarab)
Love & Thunder (Jane Foster)
Multiverse:
Loki (Sylvie)
WandaVision
What If
No Way Home
Multiverse of Madness (Chavez)
Agreed 🙏☸️🏳️🌈☯️🍀
I wonder if Chadwick Boseman’s death threw a wrench in Marvel’s plans for a figurehead for Phase 4
Most likely did
When it was new, the MCU had a point to prove. Now it just takes its audience for granted.
Yep. It seems unlike phases 1 to 3 where there was a tight focus in telling stories that excited audiences and built up to the next installment, there's now a more commercial 'churn as much content out through various channels ' mentality at Disney.
Consequently, it seems they've tried to juggle too much and there's some oversaturation making the whole experience a little less exciting.
This part
Pretty much. Only problem is that fans eat it up, so there is no reason to change
I don't agree with this they're still doing new wacky stuff
The humor is the problem for me. They can't get through a scene without busting a joke that either ruins the scene or just isn't funny at all.
Agreed.
I hope Disney will do a Marvel Knights type of run in the MCU eventually. I'm starting to check out from the one-liners and formulaic "safe" ideas. Sadly, I don't think they're going to pull it off if it does happen.
What has negatively affected Phase 4 is Disney+. When P4 was announced, there was only 5 movies and 5 shows announced. Then slowly after each movie and show releases, we get more and more shows announced and it’s still under the umbrella of Phase 4. We’re getting spin-offs of spin-offs. Agatha, Echo, Wakanda series, and there always has to be the next Marvel show to keep people subscribed. Its becoming a quantity over quality matter now. I remember when we got 2 Mcu projects a year. What will reignite the Mcu for the general public I believe will be Deadpool and Xmen/F4.
True, Deadpool/Xmen should turn the table but we are probably far away from that.
Overall I feel like we are being unfair to the MCU... if they kept the same formula as the original movies people would get tired of that. They are making different types of movies and TV shows and people complain about that...
Also previous phases movies really were not that far apart in tone compared to Phase 4 projects
They literally called phase 1-3 formulaic just for them to try and do something about it and it’s still not enough ya know now I do understand you have to do it different AND do it well. But I concur with your comment overall
Plus it’s been only a year and a half of Phase 4 and people are rushing to see what Avengers-level type of story the MCU has in store.
People are just expecting too much from Marvel.
If anything, it just says something about Marvel being beautifully successful that all eyes are now on Marvel.
Nowadays the MCU has basically become the next “Popular thing you’re supposed to hate on because you think it makes you look smart” thing
The MCU doesn’t have any leaders now. No Iron Man no Captain America.
We’ve already had 12 projects in phase 4 in 18 months. Back in 2017-18 people thought we’d have marvel fatigue with only THREE movies a year. It’s clearly over saturated
To be honest I think Chadwick Boseman/Black panther was suppose to be the next pillar after endgame. But with his passing I think it messed everything up.
Great point, he was headed towards Stark’s role
@@tchalla7828 yup. I think he was gonna take that Mantle.
While I agree with some of the problems John raised. I really believe it’s mostly poor story telling, sub par villains, low stakes, and minimal pay off. It’s like the universe hit reset after endgame, but it shouldn’t have. So many questions have been posed and Marvel has done a terrible job answering and if they do they answer them in a unsatisfying way.
That's prob because they're waiting to introduce the best villains at the end of phase 4, like Kang and Dr. Doom.
I've liked all the villains in Phase 4 so far. Which ones did you think were subpar?
I want the MCU to be more dramatic and less comedic. As much as I love comedy, I want characters/stories that feel real and grounded in reality.
Another thing the mcu has to stop doing is introducing new villians who have potential, only to be killed by the end of the movie.
Not only too many new characters, but the wrong ones. There are characters that tons of fans want to see (Deadpool, Wolverine, Dr Doom etc).
To be fair, the MCU starting off wasn’t that great either. It was cool seeing the Avengers meet for the first time but the quality of the MCU was entertaining but somewhat average. It wasn’t until late Phase 2 where MCU started to hit its best strides. Now the MCU basically has to start over since they are moving to a new story arc focusing on the Multiverse.
Iron man was amazing
If it wasn't there would be no
MCU
@@ralphpal There were good movies but I’m saying phase 2, particular Guardians of the Galaxy/Winter Soldier, was when MCU consistently started knocking it out of the park back to back, once the Infinity Stone storyline became more concrete. Even by the time Endgame happened, most MCU movies by themselves were at best entertaining but were nowhere close to masterpieces.
I feel like the MCU’s plans were really messed up by Chadwick Boseman’s death. I’ve would have been the figurehead they need. And I imagine there would have been more focus around him.
But why would Black panther be a leader for a group?
Now If you made a movie about that and his people are upset about that
Then that might be a good movie
The problem is that each phase had an Avengers movie lined up. You knew the solo movies had a purpose and an objective of seeing these characters team up at some point. Now? I don"t even know if we'll even get an Avengers movie with all these Phase 4 characters. There is no build up towards anything.
MCU is suffering from success. Ever since Endgame, fans expect every film to be a spectacle like Infinity War & Endgame. They forgot it took us 10 years to get to Endgame.
Also Phase 1, 2 & 3 are not perfect either.
MCU would do well to look at Netflix’s mistake of churning out way too much content with low quality content. Just slow down and take it easy instead of being greedy to get in the fans pockets or their hands will slap back at you picking at them too much. I think we were all expecting the multi-universe of madness to tie in a little bit more of everything we have seen the past year but instead just more plots to have to remember and keep track of.
For me love MCU but always thought there’s better out there. For me the biggest problems with mcu is
1. Lack of an identity
2. Lack a clear figure head
3. Over use of comedy
4. Hiring poor and lazy writers and directors
5. Too many stories going with no end goal.
6 when they hire good directors they interfere with the projects.
7. Quantity over quality
I wonder how much the unfortunate loss of Chadwick Boseman has contributed to the struggles. His loss coupled with Captain Marvel not being well received and it leaves a large void in the “Steve and Tony” roles
Feige said that after Thor, it'll all come clear. So, let's see what they'll have planned at Comic-Con, in Hall H, this year.
Directionless, no stakes, and characters who I don’t care about.
I feel like people are just exhausted from keeping up with these films. They’ve been repeating the same tropes and they all end the same way and people are noticing that now especially. Also the endings have been so anticlimactic as well. I feel like post Trump and post Covid, the times are more cynical now more than ever. What Marvel achieved in the last decade is now tone deaf in the 2020s. People are more into darker movies and shows like The new Batman and even The Boys. Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad are doing well because audiences like antiheroes more than the clean, funny superhero trope.
The last Suicide Squad did not do well.
Damn yeah the mcu would be better now if Hillary was president
@@blackalien6873 it did better when people discovered it
@@Jake.13 you wanna defend that terrible anticlimactic ending with those kids
@@mr.newmanthadreamer8434 you said the world is more cynical because of Trump therefore people don’t like the same marvel movies as they would have before. And I’m disagreeing that it would be different or better if Hillary had been president instead.
It's mostly important to know that Disney has become super more reliance on Marvel for everything on a content basis, has literally dip It's overall quality as whole. When their other brands like Star Wars or Pixar aren't heavily further rely on much to push certain notoriety for the actual company.
I think Feige realizes that he can't recreate the magic of the Infinity Arc for a second time and so he's giving directors more freedom to experiment with the MCU so that he can see what styles resonate the most. The problem with that is he doesn't have as tight a grip on the overall narrative for the MCU going forward and so it seems sort of aimless for the time being. When he finally has a clear vision, I think you'll see the content start to tighten up a little more.
I think the issue is that nothing feels connected. Each movie feels like it is independent of the rest. Eternals was one of the first phase 4 movies and no one has even mentioned the giant petrified celestial sticking out of the planet.
I feel like that would be a major concern.
We've had like 3 movies since eternals. And everything else is set around the same time as each other.
@@brandonpick1486 what does around mean? It may be true, but when watching the movies there are no solid reference points. No way home is 1 year after far from home. Love and thunder is over two years since Endgame. Otherwise I can't place where Shang Chi or Dr Strange fit in.
@@toughfff712 far from home and no way home take place over 6 months. They were made in such a way that they should technically be the same movie.
@@brandonpick1486 ok, the end scene is a year later, since MJ be and Ned are going to MIT. But, the point is that the shows don't give a good be account of where they fit within one another.
The events eternal are earth breaking. Literally, there is a bring coming out of the earth.
@@toughfff712 yeah true i'm not entirely sure where every things else falls in the time line. But you gotta look at phase 4 like its phase 1.
When phase 1 was going on most people had no idea that it would lead to the avengers. Let alone that every movie was connected.
I mean i realized they were connected when Tony walks into the bar to talk to Ross. But the majority of people had no idea they where all connected until the first Avengers movie came out.
Marvel just isn't the big event anymore. It's oversaturated the market. Endgame wrapped things up so beautifully that it really felt like the end of a great TV series! Everything now feels like a cash grab!
I think the biggest cause of people feeling like the MCU has lost steam is because people are expecting to have the next Thanos-level villain show up right now. People forget how many movies came before we got our first glimpse at Thanos. The whole reason the Infinity Saga was so popular was because we cared about these characters that took years to build up. People just need to be patient and open to new characters being introduced. Simple
Thank you! Finally someone said it. People are asking way to much in a short amount not remembering what it took to get to that endgame level. We are starting again, and soon people will realize how wrong they are. Kevin Feige didn't suddenly forget how to make good movies and stories
We had Malekith before Thanos. 😅
Marvel also has to deal with a remarkable increase in expectations given the mega success of the decade it had prior.
People, in all honesty, are just being too hard and unfair on Marvel. The MCU is doing fine, give it time, people. Phase 4 is only 1.5 years old.
I always thought Black Panther was gonna be one of the characters that stepped into the Captain America/Ironman lead. Not recasting the character IMO is a mistake
Spot on
Yep but he passed away. I think that was the downfall of the MCU
I agree. Tht wd hv solved the prblm.
I’m so sick of the phase 4 slander and Infinity Saga revisionism. Yes, some projects from phase four sucked. The same can be said for phase one, phase two, and phase three.
Phase 1 was garbage only Iron man 1 and Avengers were awesome
Keep being sick. Phase 4 is trash.
@@KeenApollo just like you
@@KeenApollo Yeah, Phase four is trash because some random loser on the internet said so. Lmfao
The mcu haven't been the same to me since end game. It's now become a leave your brain at the door. It's a jumbled mess. Still makes money but so did transformers.
Phase 4 is a disconnected mess of movies/shows with characters we don't care about. Nothing is at stake, there is no big bad or existential crisis. It's become a checkbox of ideology over substance.
Facts 💯
A problem I have with the MCU is the musical composition. The movies lack any real memorable music scores either than Black Panther. And no I’m not referring to the licensed music that is used such as Black Sabbath’s Iron Man and all the music in Guardians Of The Galaxy.
The first Thor movie had an absolutely memorable score. I kinda wish they would've stuck with it.
One of the reasons why Phase 4 sucks is how many titles are in it, it’s been 13 movies/shows thus far with no end in site. Over Saturation is hurting the MCU
They should reduce number of projects in a year
My wife is considered the average movie goer. Phase 1-3 she would be at the theater before me. Now I can’t get her to watch the new Doctor Strange for any reason. She looks at the thumbnail and is just not interested. This sucks.
@@josephdarkhelmet9494 lol.
The biggest issue has been the Disney + shows. They are weak and rushed
Here is my list:
1. Overuse of humor- too many joke (much of the humor is childish and lacks the wit of older movies) Distract from serious moment or take your out of the movie
2. Poor writing- Why this is make believe, there needs to be some logic. Thing just thing happen to happen. Solutions just appear. Many of the ending feel undeserved.
3. Out of place end credit scenes- This is a small complaint but many times they feel out of place and completely don't fit the feel of the movie.
4. Main characters are not main characters in movies- Thor, Black Widow, and Dr. Strange felt like side characters in there own movies.
5. In your face diversity- Diversity in movies is good as long as it feel natural. There have been have been too many moments that felt like virtue signal then good store telling. It also feel like virtue character are showing up many characters.
6. Not understand that your are in a connect universe- This is a continual problem from early phase. Having big problem happen and not reference or ignore the presence of other heroes. This was a big problem in Eternal as the excuse for them not helping with Thanos sucked.
7. The lost of keystone character- You don't have DC universe without Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. You can't have the Marvel without Cap, Ironman, and Thor. Also you wants originals not substitute. This true in comics as it is in movie
8. Charisma character- While new character are interesting, they don't have the charisma of Tony Stark. Also many of the carryover character from other phases are losing their uniqueness and becoming bland stereotype characters
9 Telling not showing- the writer tells us how we should feel about characters, but the story and actions on the screen don't match
10. No real imagination- It is the same formula over and over again.
Dude you nailed it 🔥🔥🔥🔥
This is so simple... People are asking way to much.
It is just quantity over quality. They are releasing a project every month rather than a project every few months. They should let the fans breathe and wait for the next project.
From my perspective, the real issue is a lack of good villains.
That said, most of this is about Marvel not doing a good job of showing the continued fallout from Endgame.
You wouldn’t expect things to be the same after a universe-wide war.
The biggest problem with phase 4 is that phases 1-3 focused on telling a good story that maybe had some thematic messages here or there. phase 4 has been focused on telling a message that maybe has some ok story telling instead.
I feel like they had hope Chadwick Bosemans Black Panther to take on the role of leader for the new phase or perhaps they’re waiting on Mr Fantastic or their version of Professor X
We’re seeing the effects of Feige spreading himself out too much & too many new people making decisions that aren’t turning out quality & cohesion because of the glut of projects.
I think the reason is some fans including myself have started to skip some of the movies and TV shows and we have no idea what's going on. In the early phases all of the movies are a "must see". In phase 4 the combination of too much content and uninteresting heroes have made me skip some of them.
Phase 4 is fine, it's had movies and TV series that fans think are top tier, mid tier or bottom tier in their own personal MCU rankings, just like phase 1-3. Just need to be patient, and if you just aren't enjoying it, it's ok to hop off the train. The MCU is resetting the board, let's see where it goes
100% agree!
The problem with phase 4 is simple. Terrible writing. Terrible direction. Both of these and other things has lead to to terrible characters and terrible stories.
Narrative is an afterthought. They’re all just feature-length commercials for upcoming feature-length commercials.
I'd like to counter your first point: I actually believe the movies are too identical and too tied together for anything special to surface. Think back to how different GotG was to Cap Winter Soldier and how those were different from Dr strange and Black Panther
Yes but they were both connected to Infinity Stones.
Funny how MCU fans be trying to save Phase 4 like it was good outside of No Way Home.
The good times are long over. I have accepted it
Really? So after the entire infinity Saga that took place for 10 years you’re calling it quits because of 1 subpar phase?
They’ve had 6 movies and 7 shows in about a year.
Makes sense for people to be off on it
Ridiculous it started with only two movies a year and 8 years later it was only 3 a year now it's 4 movies and 5 TV shows shit is crazy
As a movie fan (not just a marvel fan) it's pretty annoying that these movies look so ugly these days. They clearly don't have enough time for special effects. When you look at the earlier phases, those movies felt finished.
Any examples?
Pandemic
Too convoluted.
Too much green screen
No clear vision.
Getting too deep into the lore and introducing characters casual fans aren’t familiar with and quite frankly don’t care about.
Diluting the brand with the D+ series
Lack of star power
Lazy writing
Too heavy handed
New characters was the mcu fans wanted after endgame but now people are complaining cause they miss the older characters and have different stories.
I think it’s the characters that they have picked. Who asked for an Eternals movie? Echo? Ms. Marvel? Slyvie? Iron Heart?
@@michaelvin8632 I liked they introduce them.
So we spent the last 10 years complaining that the MCU films had no personality and that Disney needs to let directors do their thing.
Now we’re complaining that movies don’t fit the MCU anymore.
They definitely seemed to be trying to set up Captain Marvel as the new lead, but the character just is not likeable.
Disney+ messed it all up, chasing subscriptions by chucking shite long series out that no ones arsed about
I'm just worried that the MCU is focusing on quantity instead of quality, especially since they are pumping out so many movies and TV series
If this is “too complicated” for the average fan, then they should stop watching. If you take the time to watch everything, the direction is clear. Phase 4 is about setting the stage for the next threat, which is Kang and the multiversal war which was clearly explained in Loki. And we are seeing Kang TWICE in 2023. All of the puzzle pieces will connect more as we progress but as it stands, it’s clear enough Imo.
It is
I also think there is a lack of clear “overarching” story. Like with phase 1 it felt clear we were building to an avengers team-up, in phases 2 + 3 it was clear we were building to thanos & the infinity stones. Phase 4 is likely leading to Secret Wars but it super unclear. Every post credits scene feels like it sets up entirely new characters unconnected to any of the others
This is just simple. Once Endgame ended they should have cut it off. That was the end of the story and now it just feels like money grabs and the movies are becoming more and more corny
Totally agree about so many contridictions. Here is a marvel glaring mistake: Thanos was a deviant and weren't the eternals supposed to only get involved if deviants were involved? Yet they didn't. Why
It also makes no sense for Thanos to have a brother that was introduced at the end of Eternals, when they say the Eternals aren't "real" lol but in the comics we know they're real beings.
Is Thanos officially a Deviant in the MCU too, ignoring comic books?
Idk right? I’m still mad at that retcon
And also, the Eternals were just humans given op powers by the celestials, not cosmic beings made in celestial factories, that happens to look like humans.
Dr. Strange 2 was a mess. The Memory Lane sequence might’ve been the lowest point in the MCU lol.
What fan service is in Black Widow, Shang Chi, Eternals, Love and Thunder, Loki, Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Moon Knight?
I’m old enough to remember people hating Iron Man 3. Thor 2. Captain America and Hulk.
i remember, iron man 2 still mediocre until today and 3 (yep thats insult to mandarin character), bad captain marvel movie, agent of shields (that series mediocre), I'm still tolerate thor 2 than love and thunder...
Why is nonone addressing the Elephant in the room? It's because of Disney Plus. MCU has been making quality movies, but the shows have been pretty hit or miss.
I've felt the opposite for the most part. I've far more enjoyed the likes of Moon Knight, Loki and WandaVision over any of the movies.
Black Widow, Dr Strange, Eternals, now Thor have been underwhelming for me. I dont even consider Shang Chi or Far From Home to be top tier Marvel either.
Yes I definitely agree there. Disney plus shows have been really miss. I wouldn’t even say hit or miss to me the the only good show has been Loki. Everything else was crap even Wandavision.
The technical quality has taken a nose dive since phase 4 began. There are some exceptions like No Way Home and WandaVision but it's been terrible for the most part.
Dr Strange MoM and Thor L&T were massively disappointing because we had good expectations. The movies are not just poorly written, they're also poorly shot and developed. Some of the VFX is many shots in these movies are criminal in 2022.
The MCU ain't creating as many memorable characters or moments, oversaturation big part due to the Disney plus shows, the multiverse so far disappointing people
Things do feel overly complicated atm. They're introducing a shit ton of new ideas without giving people a chance to acclimate to each one.
You see Loki and think okay in Spider-Man NWH they'll expand on it or in Doctor Strange MVM they'll expand but in each on they just introduce their own thing and it makes it all confusing
Is it confusing though or are we just all stupid?
@@deannahenry8925 I think regardless they should write their material so that simpleton can understand
I can tell you what their problems are right now… They are focusing way too much on social politics rather than good writers and good storytelling.
Because each director is given the liberty to basically run the movie to their pleasure. Feigi lost control that's why we are getting so much trash.
It's not a problem. They built up from Phase 1 to Phase 3. Phase 4 is starting over as if it was a new Phase 1 and they are building up for the next decade. Everyone wanting Marvel knock it out of the park every time is just unrealistic. They are building an identity. Kevin's already said that. My only problem is we know Marvel's bag of heroes and they aren't really tying them together/overlapping them yet, but I believe they will soon.
Yes. This..
It is a problem. These arent comic books and a reset like such doesn't work. It clearly isnt working. They've had three chances to make sense of the multiverse being the center of this new arc (Loki, SM No Way Home, and Multiverse of Madness) and they STILL haven't set in front of the audience what exactly is going on. Im fine with new characters and im fine with way more material. Thats fine they're bUiLdInG aN iDeNtiTy, but it isnt helping the storytelling.
Agree. In conclusion really, people need to have patience. People gave the MCU patience in Phase 1, gave the MCU a whole decade to pay off, and that patience made the MCU the juggernaut that it is today. (Phase 4 is just 1.5 yr old for crying out loud)
Again, people just need to have patience. Marvel is doing just fine. ☺️
the reason people think it's not working is because this internet age of immediate consumption has no patience. Of course a reset is necessary. The last movie was "Endgame." I wasn't even expecting ANY MORE after Endgame.
They had to meet to figure out what's Next? As an audience no one could imagine what was next. Now people complaining as if Loki and NWH and everything else in Phase 4 is straight garbage. NWH isn't even a year old and it was Amazing!
And Kevin said like last month we'll understand the bigger plan soon but people have no patience.
Disney + has confused a lot of people. There has been no clear leader or villian in Phase 4.
That's what I see is the issue. Hell, saw Thor: 4 tonight and now Hercules is the new "main" villian?
Ugh
He’s not the main villian but the next thor villian probably, same way Adam warlock has been on hold for guardians 3
Agree... there is no actuall villian right now.
Marvel is passing the torch to characters who love the rain.
I don’t even have to read the comments and I know there’s gonna be a bunch of people upset over the “woke agenda”. Lol
I only care if the movies are entertaining. That's lacking
I concur.
I don't care if it's woke. Just make it super entertaining.
For me, none of these movies have an identity. Same super smash of CGI, jokes every other minute, forgettable villain. Just no soul to these movies. Just assembly line movies.
The big budget and cgi I’ve been saying is what’s ruining the movies they need someone who’s passionate of film making cinematography etc the use of film skills to make a work of art not a computer generated film so I 100% agree with you
🎯🎯🎯
For me, I think it's because they're introducing so many new characters and we don't know how those characters tie into each other.
Phases 1-3, we knew the characters were going to become the Avengers. We got a sneak peek of Thanos in the end credits for the first Avengers, so we also knew that everything was going to build up into defeating him.
Phase 4 is, presumably, the starting point of Secret Wars, but like John said, there's a lack of identity. We just have a bunch of characters and we don't know how they're going to come together since everything is so cosmic now.
Good points. I agree with you, but I think it has more to do with introducing characters for the sake of introducing them and padding out Disney+ content--but at the expense of a great story. Case in point: the Agatha Harkness they're going to release later on. While an interesting enough villain, I don't think she was great enough to warrant her own show.
Moon Knight was the biggest letdown of phase 4 for me personally. He has an extremely interesting backstory and huge potential for a series. Sadly, the limited 6-ep screen times, great story ideas that were unfortunately half-in-the-bag, and the typical throwaway MCU villain killed my excitement.
@@willistan3562 Agreed on the points about the shows. I think shows should be left for more complex stories that actually build upon the MCU, like Loki, and not just introducing characters just because.
As for Moon Knight, I think his story was essential to the MCU, but it definitely needed another 2-4 episodes. These 6 episode shows just aren't cutting it. Ms. Marvel had a good first episode and a decent 2nd, but the show could've just been a movie with the pacing it has.
Theres no underlining plot to Phase 4 like how we had Thanos for the first 3 phases.
Thanos wasn’t even a thing till the fifth MCU film.
Honestly my biggest problem is there’s a lot of content to watch. Regarding The Who is the Ironman and Cap now I think it was supposed to be Spider-Man and Black Panther but with the Sony Complications and Chads unfortunate passing it has affected everything
I feel like a major problem is Chadwick Bosemans death. In my eyes he was going to be a major figure head in these movies and then he died and they scrambled to pickup the pieces. It’s part of the reason I think he should have been recast. But that’s just me what do I know. I also do agree with the over saturation it’s been too much.
Black Panther was awful.
@@dy120481 maybe to you and that doesn't change the fact he possibly would've been the figure head had he not died
@@chrismaybe "Figurehead" is one word, and "possibly" is a terrible argument.
absolutely agree
Clearly Wong is the figure head of phase four.
Marvel is a cinematic institution now - ostensibly the first of its kind for generations of moviegoers and superhero fans. I think one of the problems, then, and why we’re getting bombarded with characters that don’t seem to have a clear path is that AS this cinematic institution, part of the MCU’s goal/obligation has gone from simply making the best Marvel Comics adaptations as they can to being a whole other kind of leader and barometer for American pop culture. So with BLACK PANTHER, CAPTAIN and MS MARVEL, and SHANG CHI , they’ve gone from leading with a great story to leading with how they can be everything to all people. Suddenly, the MCU Is this huge element in a young person’s development, so with a track record they can sort of lean on and take for granted, every movie or TV show has to be the first of this superhero of this race or that gender or lifestyle. Maybe there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but naturally, I think it plays a part in this line of thinking in which Feige now has a responsibility to more than just the fanbase or to tell good superhero stories. These movies and shows seem to have taken on or been saddled with literally determining or affecting how this girl or person of color or other member of a minority group will think of themselves and feel represented and included BECAUSE this cultural behemoth has made a auperhero that looks and acts like them. I’m not a lifelong Marvel Comics fan and don’t know squat about The Eternals, but I remember the flack that the first CAPTAIN MARVEL movie got for letting its star put too much focus on the politics of empowered, arguably bi or asexual yet otherwise female superhero. I also remember multiple stories of race and gender swapping characters in THE ETERNALS. I don’t necessarily think or hope that made it the least popular MCU film, but as Campea says, Kevin Feige is one man. No matter his position in the company, there’s only so much he can do and control, and right now, he isn’t just responsible for representing Marvel onscreen. Because of the MCU’s success and because some of its movies like BLACK PANTHER have had or been said to have had wider ranging implications going way beyond just pleasing audiences and making money, there seems to be an expectation of Marvel - BECAUSE it is now so popular and almost ubiquitous in American culture and how it’s represented - there’s no longer the luxury of just focusing on certain characters for story reasons and telling stories that are also part of a really good, larger one. Now, they almost don’t even have to advertise or promote individual MCU movies. The brand, alone, and its cultural currency is being taken for granted somewhat so that Feige and others can crank out content left and right, but because it’s the vaunted MCU, being good as stories seems to no longer be as important as Marvel or Disney being the first or the best at depicting and promoting a leading superhero that is Muslim or Asian or LGBTQ, etc. Whether anyone believes me or not, I’m not opposed to that representation or to those stories being told, but just what we’ve seen lately with Disney theme parks and an increasingly loud opposition and demand for a return to just being entertaining and that being the main goal speaks, I think, to the potentiality of this kind of social obligation being a significant reason that maybe we’re seeing an MCU that is overextending itself for completely new reasons and being so confident in the brand after 14 years that no one is rushing to do what these movies became successful for doing in the first place - ie, using a handful of engaging and distinct characters to headline solo films good enough to also lay increasingly larger bread crumbs on a path towards another bigger story involving everyone.
It's like they keep introducing things but it might be too much at once because none of it directly connects to each other.
There's no Nick Fury to tie it all together
Should add Lack of Cohesion to the list, phases 1 through 3 although individual movies, all were part of 1 cohesive story that was playing in the background at all times, Phase 4 doesnt have that so the films dont have that "must see" feel that all the previous films had when you felt like you HAD to watch every movie or you would miss a piece of the story
This is what happens when you hire straight out of film school.
None of these films feel like they are building to something. Everything is spinning in all different directions and there is no real weight to anything going on. If Kang is the next big bad he should be getting far more connections in the build up to his main arc.
So basically the MCU became exaclty like the comic books.
Yes and No, the comic book industry has its own problem of getting actual new fans get into the market especially since it relies on a person needing to learn how to get comics (especially when doing it through comic issues). The MCU really would need to not make so much stinkers that it kills them truly. Which is a low-medium chance if they don't come up with a brand/character lead to carry future MCU projects. So far the peeps carrying MCU rn are Loki, Wanda, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and Moon Knight because the fandom for Oscar Isaac is crazy.
@@heroicgangster9981 yeah but I meant by the sheer number of realities introduced, you’ve got gods, Celestials, a quantum realm, clandestines (which have nothing to do with the actual Clan Destine comic), alternate universes, a cosmic side, a magical side, aliens, Inhumans, the upcoming Atlantis in Black Panther II, the TVA, and soon to be introduced mutants on top of that etc etc. The casual movie goer will have to keep track of all that.
The terrible editing & trimming down of the films has been killing me; Black Widow, Eternals, Dr Strange 2 & now Thor. All of them have this feeling of necessary atmosphere & character building being cut out and it’s hurting the final products giving a sense of rush & shoving through the plot like the audience suffers collective ADHD.
And definitely a lack of overall cohesion with so many grand notions brought in with no substantial connective tissue.
Phase 4 seems very complicated, and I don't know who is the next"Thanos"... the big baddie.
I'd add 6) Requires viewers to have seen every other movie and Disney+ MCU show. For a casual viewer who has never seen WandaVision, Dr Strange 2 won't make sense, since Wanda's motivations are poorly explained in the movie. Yes, in the movie she says repeatedly that she wants her kids. Casual viewers will ask: "Which kids?" If you hadn't seen NWH, you'd ask why Wong is the Sorcerer Supreme, because Dr Strange 2 doesn't tell you. Whenever Kang or Ms Marvel shows up in a movie, is that movie going to explain who they are, or will Loki and Ms Marvel be required viewing? Amy is correct. And if people think the MCU is getting out of hand, let me direct you to Star Wars, where you have to watch movies, D+ shows, read books, read comics, and play video games. Star Wars is referencing things, places, events, and people who the casual audience has never seen or heard about.
Disney+ and other non-film media should be support material, containing deeper explanations. They should not be primary viewing, at least not for casual viewers.
Where are the Avengers?? It's like they don't exist anymore. Just my opinion but it's like phase 1-3 never happened. Maybe we are not in the 616 universe anymore.
oh it's probably because we are in 616 now. remember before we we were in 199999999999
It is called the Marvel Universe not the Avenger universe. If you focus on the main Avengers so much you are probably going to find it boring.
It doesn't matter what it's called. But there is something missing in all of the recent projects. Other than Spider-Man everything else has just been ok at best.
22:52 As someone who doesn't have Disney+, I really resent the fact that Disney+ exclusive shows are now integral to the continuity in the movies. It's not just "I have to watch all the previous MCU movies" anymore; it's "I have to watch all the previous MCU movies and TV shows on a subscription for an at-home service and I don't even have the option of going to a theater for those shows".
@@vonzkunk _WandaVision_ was essential to _Doctor Strange ITMOM_ .
@@vonzkunk I have a mixed opinion about _WV_ , but that doesn't negate the fact that it did set up the plot of _DSITMOM_ .
You can watch them online without getting disney +
@@bashengatheblackmanta7003 I don't want to get into illegal or shady stuff.
@@kjhuang l have a site that works, that's where l watch my movies (even the recent release love and thunder) and it doesn't spam.
But l respect your choice
The problem is terrible writing and direction. The stories and characters in phases 4 range from below average to terrible because the writing and direction is terrible. Simple as that.
For another sports analogy, the stars retired and now the franchise is in rebuild mode and trying to find a new identity revolved around the core of this new saga.