Why You Still Can't Pronounce Dấu hỏi | Learn Vietnamese with TVO
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2020
- A clear and detailed explanation about how to pronounce Dấu hỏi - Question tone correctly in Vietnamese, from the perspective of a Vietnamese learner.
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Cảm ơn rất nhiều! 🌻
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdyMGfonIRwTC94kM5MvupkRsVDB56RFbkGXjq6LGxtQj7V9w/viewform
Jesus, I literally was making myself crazy with this a month ago. Like how can they both be correct!? Ok I'll relax now. Cảm ơn bạn!
This guy's great. It really helps to have perspective from a native English speaker who has become fluent in tieng viet.
It's very inspiring to see a fellow Australian speaking at this level, and I agree, dấu hỏi is the hardest tone
he's English
@@edcottamguitarlessons-warr4285 no he's not 😂
@@yeetoo apologies my mistake
@@edcottamguitarlessons-warr4285 Don't apologise, you're correct. He is English! As am I, so, I know.
Actually he is English South African........I am from Johannesburg South Africa and I speak English with the exact same accent. The way he speaks is how English South Africans sound
I learned this one because at night I would try and tell my wife "I know you're tired honey. Go on to sleep." What I was saying was "I know you're tired honey. Go on stupid." She was so mad at me and really sat down and practiced with me. Also the hand motion does help me. This is a great video.
Oh my goodness, I'm so jealous seeing this obviously non-Vietnamese fellow speaking nearly perfect Vietnamese. Good for you, young man.
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As for dấu hỏi, just _knowing_ that it can have many pronunciations makes things easier because it doesn't catch you as much by surprise. Your explanation of "creakiness" near the end was definitely the most valuable part. I recognized exactly what you were talking about but I've never heard anyone else talk about "creakiness." It is an idea I was beginning to grasp with my ears but now I grasp it with my mind. 👍
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Great video. Really nice to have an English speaker explain things. I don't know if I'll ever get Vietnamese, but I'll keep trying.
Fantastic video! I'm obsessed with Vietnamese phonetics and phonology and it was great to see a video on dấu hỏi mentioning voice quality, pitch and variation. It's also very inspiring to see John speaking Vietnamese fluently. Well done! I'd love to see similar videos on pronunciation. Perhaps some basic guidance on rhythm/intonation patterns within a statement/question. I haven't been able to find much information about this. Cám ơn các bạn!
xin chào 2 bạn, mình là người việt nam và xin cảm ơn hai bạn đã góp phần làm cho tiếng việt đến được với nhiều bạn bè quốc tế hơn, chúc hai bạn sức khỏe và thành công nhé !!!
Great video. Please note however that Alexandre de Rhodes wasn’t Portuguese but rather French.
“Quoc-ngu was devised in the mid 17th century by Portuguese missionaries who modified the Roman alphabet with accents and signs to suit the particular consonants, vowels, and tones of Vietnamese. It was further modified by a French missionary, Alexandre de Rhodes.” - Encyclopedia Britannica
Pitch and voice QUALITY!! As someone who speaks a bit of Thai, I kept wondering why couldn’t quite match what I was hearing. Always great to hear someone agree when we say “you keep changing the way you pronounce it.” Subscribed and liked. Thanks for this.
Learning Vietnamese can be pretty hard as a 1st-2nd generation speaker as well. I grew up speaking and hearing a mixture of Southern and Hue accents at home and all the Vietnamese courses and tutors teach using the Northern accent. Half of the time I get bewildered by the consanant pronounciation differences and the other half they simply use different vocabulary that I never hear in my family.
In my search for ideas to sound more like a native speaker I Just watched this video again - I learn something new everytime I watch it!
That cleared up a lot. Thanks!
This is sooo helpful, thank you so much!!
Very helpful, looking forward to more by John!
Good explanation! Thanks
Really enjoyed this video TVO oi! Thanks :)
I found this video extremely helpful! having a foreigners perspective on the pronunciations can really cover the blind spots that are missed by native speakers.
More like this please!
This is incredibly helpful! Thanks guys
Wow John. Excellent explanation! Also your Vietnamese pronunciation is amazing.
ôô yeeeeeuh thít-chờ John đếyy😎 , this is next level freshness luôn, chất! 👏🏼
I was exactly in this very situation. Cheers for your explanation. It is perfectly clear now
what would i do without this!!! more john more john! i love these more analytical videos
Thank you, John, for making this so clear. Appreciate your contribution to learning the Vietnamese language.
Hands down the best explanation I've seen...THANK YOU!!!
I really appreciate this one, thanks guys
Video naỳ rất tốt. Cảm ơn anh
Wow, excellent research and explanation John. The video is very eye-opening even to a native speaker like me. Look forward to seeing more of your videos on TVO.
Wow! Even though I speak Vietnamese, this was really enlightening! And I'm really impressed by John's skills - his vocabulary is way better than mine, even though my mum's Vietnamese 😅
Finally, glad to hear someone point this out! I've long suspected that hoi had multiple articulations, but so happy to hear my theory is backed by someone else!
Also, for those of you who know mandarin, what might help is if you envision the hoi tone as the 3rd tone in Mandarin. In both cases, they take their full value only when emphasized, or at the end of a phrase. But in fast speech, the rising portion gets cut off in both.
John's approach to making the subject easy to grasp is amazing. I am totally blown away!
Amazing 👌 thank you so much I had so much trouble but now I understand
Fantastic explanation
Very good and informative video, it helps a lot to improve my vietnamese language and pronounciation..cam on rat ngieu ban oi.
You are very inspiring in learning Vietnamese Language !! thank you deeply
This was very helpful, thank you so much.
Awesome work guys!
Thank you so much for making this video! This was actually explained better than my mom, grandparents, textbook, and professor
Good explanations thanks! This really reminds me of studying Chinese...Vietnamese has some very similar rules. + I totally agree...sometimes you just gotta listen...cheers + keep up the good work TVO! :)
The biggest flex on the internet this month! I’m still at lesson 0.5 for now! Didn’t catch much in this video but great to see it’s possible! At least I got motivated!
Struggling big time with this tone. But seeing a fellow foreigner talk about it in such confident and fluid Vietnamese is really motivating. Practice makes perfect! Thanks for the video TVO
This is an extremely interesting video, and it, along with John's other video explaining tones, both have been exteemly helpful in learning Vietnamese. I first found these when I was fist learnin Vietnamese about 6 months ago, and to go back and watch again after some months was additonally informative. It is interesting to get into the details of some of John's explanations. It's also fun to remember when I could only read the captions in English, and now with captions in Vietnamese, I can mostly ignore the English 😊. Anyway, thanks so much for sharing, these two videos have been an asset in my Vietnamese learning 🙏🙏🙏.
Wow excellent description
Please make more of these - a lot more! Perhaps with less Vietnamese speech (for those of us that are unable to keep up with so much vocabulary). And I just learnt something about English too!
Video đó rất hữu ích, cảm ơn rất nhiều
Correct: "Video NÀY rất hữu ích", not "ĐÓ". You use "ĐÓ" for another video (not this one). Này = this, đó = that.
Handsome and likable guy giving a very helpful explanation!
Really good video. I remember chatting in a cafe with a Vietnamese man back when I couldn't pronounce dấu hỏi - he clocked it, laughed, corrected me, and told me off for not using my nose. What John describes as creakiness, my new pronunciation tutor described as nasalisation. Just goes to show how important practice is, you never know when you might meet someone over a nâu đá and experience a revelation!
This is insightful, and your Vietnamese pronunciation is impressive. You're right that as a Vietnamese, I have no idea what foreigners find the most difficult in my language and even if I know, I won't be able to explain to them how to get it right. That shows a lot when learning a new language, you don't just need native speakers, but also foreigners who had experienced the same hardship.
Thank you so much, I was trying to learn the tones and I watched multiple videos (For me it often helps hearing multiple people explain the same concept in their own way) and I just couldn't figure out why many of them pronounced this tone differently. I was so confused! And when I'm confused I generally have issues with moving on past it, how can I learn to pronounce Vietnamese if I don't understand how the tones work. Thanks to you I can move on, thank you!
Rất dễ hiểu. Mình dùng vòm miệng để điều phối âm dấu hỏi, còn âm ấy phát ra từ lồng ngực.
Thanks for this nice video! I have just recently began my Vietnamese learning journey, and stumbled over the correct pronunciation of dấu hỏi. There are many videos in the orbit in which people describe the tone with words and gestures, but then pronounce it differently. I guessed rightly that allophones might play a role, but I thought wrongly that the differences of pronunciation might be an expression of southern and northern dialects. By the way, I also like your video about the 6 + 2 = 8 tones of Vietnamese! This was very helpful, too. I see strong parallels with the 6 (7) + 3 = 9 (10) Cantonese tonal system. Special phonation (breathy or creaky voice) as in Vietnamese or Mandarin (3. tone) is absent in Cantonese, which makes it more difficult to differentiate the tones.
Nice explanation, I wish I saw it earlier, but still useful (say from 9:15) :)
Also very inspiring, since my Vietnamese keeps being 3-4 times slower than John's (but at least I star being able to say something spontaneous) :)
Another super helpful video
This video made me love TVO!
This new guy is really good!
Thís is gold. Great people
Mind blowing theory. My mind has been opened!
Thank you so much 💜
Chủ thớt, giỏi lắm! Dấu hỏi của bạn nghe y chang người Việt Nam!
Cả video này bạn John không uống đồ uống của mình! Chắc là các cốc này là prop giống như một cái cây!
Also, great video!
Hmm? Cái cây?
Correct: "cái cốc", not "Các cốc". Explain: "các" means "many/much" (More than 2). In the video, there is just one glass so you can use "cái". But remember that you can use "cái" for "one" doesn't mean "cái"=one. We can use "cái" for singular or plural (Ex: 1 cái cặp (one schoolbag), 3 cái cặp (three schoolbags), những cái cặp (many schoolbags)). Hope I can help you with learning Vietnamese.
TVO làm video này chất lượng đấy. Cách tiếp cận tiếng Việt từ góc nhìn bên ngoài sẽ giúp giải đáp nhiều khúc mắc hơn. Cậu này tiếng Việt khá, nói không bị vấp, nhưng vẫn gợn một chút vì người nước ngoài hay dừng lâu hơn để nhấn nhá các dấu thanh điệu.
Các bạn nên bàn về giọng Bắc Kỳ 1954 (BK đi cư) và Bắc Kỳ 1975 (BK giải phóng) và trả lời tại sao người dân miền Nam và miền Trung lại dị ứng với giọng BK75 đặc biệt nầy. Để so sánh các bạn hãy nghe MC Nguyễn Cao Kỳ Duyên hay Nguyễn Ngọc Ngạn nói và nghe ca sĩ Lệ Quyên hay Bằng Kiều nói.
b75 is a made-up accent. Authentic northern accent came with b54 to central & south and was well accepted by the majority
The BK75 accent is from the Northerners in rural areas who settled in Hanoi in 1954, replacing the people who migrated to the South to avoid Communism, which people in the South call the BK54 accent. If you are in Hanoi and want to pronounce with the BK54 accent, you should learn from people who have not migrated to the South in 1954. It will sound clearer and more elegant.
One thing I found that helped me with this tone is thinking that the symbol for it looked like a spring, so the tone went down then up like a bouncing spring.
Thanks for this explanation. It reminds me very much of the Mandarin 3rd tone, where the description ("dipping") is also woefully inaccurate in fast and connected speech. It too has nontrivial interactions with neighboring syllables. Needless to say, native speakers also often find it difficult to teach this tone, despite their best efforts.
I swear, this guy understands all of the issues I've had
This is exactly the same problem as the third tone in Mandarin. The tone really is similar between the two languages actually. There are a few different ways that mandarin native speakers pronounce it. It's always taught falling and then rising, and spoken that way only when it's really being emphasized, but in a sentence it's never pronounced that way. Not just that, but the mandarin third tone has tone sadhi rules, where the tone completely changes to a rising tone if it's before another third tone.
Not something I had thought of as I just followed the pronunciation of my wife and in laws etc - but yes, the hoi is more gentle when it's not on the end of a sentence - for example "em an pho khong?" - the pho is pronounced more like a dau huyen than dau hoi as the emphasis is more on the ending "khong?" - Great video and as per Jarod's comment, good to see a fellow Aussie speak VN as well as you do
I was hoping to find someone to explain this to me!
trời ơi, this video is so underrated
Thanks for the great video guys, it was very helpful! Another thing I struggle with is that it seems to me like the pronunciations of the vowels can change a lot based on their surrounding environments, including in relation to the tones. Is this true and are there any phonologic rules around this you could maybe share in a later video? Also are the verb pairs â and ơ and a and ă phonetically different from each other or is it just a question of length? Thanks!
Hey there Evan!
Vowels do indeed change depending on the consonants that follow them. This is because vowels and consonants aren't really independent of each other - the way you move your tongue to pronounce the consonant that comes after the vowel will change how that vowel sounds. The best example I can think of this is the difference between 'an' and 'anh'. The 'nh' is palatalised, meaning you have to kinda push your tongue flat against your hard palate. This causes your mouth to be more closed around the front during the 'a' sound than normal, making it sound more like an 'e' than before.
Another example is how the 'u', 'ô' and 'o' get modified if they're followed by an 'ng' or 'c'. But that's much more complicated, and I think I'll make a video about it.
I don't think vowels get modified by tone - at least I've never noticed it.
>Also are the verb pairs â and ơ and a and ă phonetically different from each other or is it just a question of length?
I've tried to research into this before - apparently different linguists say different things, which is common for vietnamese phonology. I personally pronounce â more like the english 'uh', as in 'cấp' is almost identical to the english 'cup', and ơ more like 'er'. I've noticed that if I make my 'â' sound too much like an 'ơ', people might confuse my 'bất' for 'bớt', regardless of length.
As far as I can tell, ă and a are distinguished only by length. There seem to be some cases where native speakers pronounce 'ă' more like an 'â' than I expect, but I haven't figured out why.
@@JH-ty2cs Awesome thanks for the reply, looking forward to you guys' next videos! Also thanks for pointing out the creaky voice aspect of the tones, that is very helpful, and for some reason is never really taught or mentioned. Yeah I've found Vietnamese phonetics and phonology to be unbelievably difficult and frustrating, to say the least!
This has been confusing me a lot, thanks for this video, I find it helpful.
after 3 years learning vietnamese I finally understand
Hi. And now, do you keep learning Vietnamese?
Cảm ơn Dôn Hắt Man nha!
Một khái niệm rất hiểm trong tiếng Việt
i think its easier to invent a time machine and tell the guy not to invent Dấu hỏi
One time I was gettin mah toes did, years ago, and everyone around me was speaking Vietnamese. I tried to listen but it hurt my brain, because there are sounds we just don't process, I could tell they were there and I could tell I wasn't hearing them, if that makes any sense at all. It's like you just can't hear some sounds (or inflection) until you know to hear it.
Also, people were talking softly like 15 feet away around a corner and just having conversation. I could kinda hear that the person further away made sound then the person in front of me would say something softly and it just went back and forth. I was fascinated. I've noticed it in other languages too to a lesser degree since that revelation.
Similar to, but not the same as the other challenge of getting your mouth to make these sounds.
(sorry, I ramble)
Question:
To a Vietnamese only speaker, if someone reads it aloud, ignoring all tone and just using their own accent, is it intelligible at all?
Hello, Vietnamese speaker here. If a Vietnamese speaker does that, it is absolutely unintelligible. Remember that tone is an essential part of the Vietnamese language.
as a Vietnamese, i feel like it so complicate :D . In my opinion, you dont have to pronounce dấu hỏi perfectly, people still can understand what you say. Then, bit by bit, you will be bester at using dấu hỏi. You no need to be confuse when Vietnamese people pronounce dấu hỏi differently everytime they talk to you, just get the idea what they are saying, and then by listening and talking to people, you will see that dấu hỏi is not that hard. Anyways, you Vietnamese is so amazing, and your voice is so soft.
Stop & top? Is the difference an Australian thing or all English ?
Alexandre de Rhodes was french and we know now that he was one of the guys who made it.
Is there a college I could enrol and study tieng Viet? I would love to live there once the world re-opens haha. I've been there a few times already.
I think you can. They teach Vietnamese at University of Social Science and Humanities in both Hà Nội and Hồ Chí Minh city
This video is very refreshing, compared to the other blank background cringy setups reminding of the 80s.
So bascially when speaking quickly, dau hoi is pronoucned in a similar way like the falling tone in Mandarin Chinese.
Another positive aspect of the fact that most foreigners want to learn southern dialect ... but, still a good video for the minority trying to learn northern Vietnamese :)
Also the name sounds more like "high" than "hoy" like in ahoy.
what does he mean by simple grammatical word
HOLY SHIT IM SHOCK AT YOUR VIETNAMESE, MAN
I HAVE NEVER HEARD A FOREIGNER SPEAK VIETNAMESE THIS ACCURATE
Huyền, sắc, HỎi, ngã, nặng
His Vietnamese is better than mine lol!
Giọng BK75 tiếng Việt có thể so sánh với giọng người Úc nói tiếng Anh là từ những tù nhân khổ thân chung sai bị tòa án Anh quốc và Ireland đày qua Úc vào những năm 1787-1868.
Giọng BK75 là từ những người Bắc ở những vùng nông thôn định cư ở Hà Nội vào những năm 1954 thay thế cho những người Bắc Hả Nói di cư vào trong Nam để tránh nạn Cộng Sản mà người trong Nam gọi là giọng BK54. Nếu bạn ở Hà Nội và muốn phát âm theo giọng BK54 thì nên học từ những người Bắc Hả Nội không di cư vào trong Nam thì sẽ nghe rõ ràng và thanh tao hơn.
Nếu bạn muốn học tiếng Anh thì bạn thích giọng Úc hay giọng Mỹ?
Nếu bạn muốn học tiếng Việt thì bạn thích giọng BK75 hay giọng BK54?
Danh từ BK75 được đặt ra khi người trong Nam nghe cách phát âm của người Bắc vào trong Nam sau tháng 4 năm 1975.
Phỵt quănh ẫu dấu sắc triệm ẫu uỳng: É. É. Ghỉa rất sượnh dấu sắc khồt tám mười đấy phoãi rất dấu sắc. (I think the up tone is easy like this: Eeeihh. Eeeihh. Girls say that they got the up tone right in barely eighty days. They kind of wonder like they are in this up tone.)
Thank you for learning Vietnamese but I can't understand your Vietnamese. It seems to be your wrong combination of words.
Hỏi = Huyền + Ngã .Ex : Hỏi = Hò+ĩ
Mình là người Thái Lan và đồng ý rằng dấu hỏi khó nhất trong tiếng Việt.
Yeah. How about dấu ngã?
@@PickUpVietnamese dấu ngã này tiếng Thái mình không có nhưng mà mình nghĩ là dấu ngã không khó lắm.
Cố gắng lên bạn ơi 🤩
After seeing this i felt that i understand everything 🤣🤣🤣
Dấu sắc quănh 3 dấu nhuỷnh vặp rất đĩ điễc nguyện khọng ẵ: É. É. (The up tone has 3 tone and leveleness. Watch how this is produced right: Eeeeihh. Eeeeihh.)
Cho người miền Nam vào đây học cũng hợp lý phết :)) Chẳng bao giờ phần biệt được "hõi", "ngã" :
nghe xong lú luôn 😂
Chào bạn, lâu rồi không nói chuyện. Tiếng Việt của bạn đã nhảy vợt, đã đạt trình độ mới rồi. Mình còn nhớ rằng ngày xưa bạn đã có bàn với mình về sự phát âm rắc rối của dấu hỏi.
There is one mistake, which is your claim that Chinese tones do not have features beyond pitch-contour. For instance, the 3rd tone in Mandarin features breathy/creaky voice, and the tones also require different vowel lengths, too (as they do in Vietnamese). In fact, Chinese speakers learning Vietnamese could benefit from the analogy.
âu mai gót, chào anh đan nhé, long time no see. You were actually the first person to point out to me how they do the hand thing with dấu hỏi - should I be crediting you? =)))
Also my bad re: mandarin tones. It's obviously not my field of expertise - I was just going off of what some other Chinese learners had told me, which I now realise is wrong haha
Good luck with dấu ngã
Dau hoi is literally the easier tone fot me.
.i can't get huyen and sac correctly.