Isn't there somewhat of an issue with anticipation frames getting eaten by rollback which makes reads more difficult? Like suppose a player does a raw super and the rollback code lags a bit - when it finally does catch up after a few frames it will "fast-forward" them a bit past the wind-up for their attack, which gives the opponent less time to react. Or am I misunderstanding the technique?
Yep you’re right. You can chalk that up to bad luck and one of the drawbacks. If someone executes that raw super in lag and rollback is predicting the idle animation, then it catches up, it looks like it’s fast forwarding but it’s “rolling back” from the idle animation to the super animation and all of a sudden you’re getting wrecked by a super you couldn’t predict. Definitely a drawback.
open source is like an school, where teatchers teach students a lot knowlege so they dont have to rediscover the fire and reinvent the whell, the civilization have mileniuns of accumulated knowledge ,almost the entire evolution of the civilization was made by sharing knowledge. yet people completely under estimate it and under value it, under fund it. the main reason why some proprietary codes are better than some alternative counterparts is that open source is underfunded as hell. yet, despite being underfund it often get the same level of quality or is much better than the proprietary counterparts.
earned my sub im pretty tech illiterate and you broke it down into easy to understand pieces that i could use to make the conclusions on my own, overall to the point and extremely informative. well done! 👌🏼
Nintendo didn't budget the retrofitting like Bamco did for DBFZ. Even if it was a hackjob, Arcsys has experience with a rollback pipeline. Smash would also not get the same proportional marketing boost from rollback. Fighting games getting rollback gets signal boosted to the whole FGC, but Smash is so big that the profit turnaround is pennies to what they've already made.
Actually, Sakurai tried it and he mentions it. He stated a lot of strange things started to happen though and he didn't like it. I think that he didn't continue with the development of rollback because of time constraints. The amount of stuff you would have to account for in rollback is not like any fighter. Stages, items, and all 80 characters
The only thing uniquely frustrating about Rollback vs Delay is that sometimes you can get rolled back into being hit, or have a hit you got on your screen taken away.
I just started an introductory course in computer sciences. I love fighting games and that's why I would like to know a roadmap on how to start programming for rollback netcode. good video and thanks
Good luck! I started as a CS major but ended up having more fun in the IT classes and changed majors. Have fun. Best tip I had was READ THE DOCUMENTATION 😂
Hey! RUclips recommended me this video on my feed and its really good! Kudos to the work that you're doing 😊 Btw I was wondering if I could help you edit your videos and also make highly engaging shorts out of them. But I'm not really sure if it is the best time?
It's similar but not quite the same, car games and other games with a larger number of players in a session tend to use a server as the source of truth and as what syncs all sides The rollback used in fighting games let the computers of both players do the heavy lifting because a server in the middle keeping track of the whole match with only 2 players would be more costly and increase the lag which is a downside both for the players and the devs/publishers for very little gain(that said, fighting games still do have servers but only for matchmaking and keeping track of ranks and there might be some or even many fighting games that do opt for a server based scheme for a multitude of reasons)
Isn't there somewhat of an issue with anticipation frames getting eaten by rollback which makes reads more difficult? Like suppose a player does a raw super and the rollback code lags a bit - when it finally does catch up after a few frames it will "fast-forward" them a bit past the wind-up for their attack, which gives the opponent less time to react. Or am I misunderstanding the technique?
Yep you’re right. You can chalk that up to bad luck and one of the drawbacks. If someone executes that raw super in lag and rollback is predicting the idle animation, then it catches up, it looks like it’s fast forwarding but it’s “rolling back” from the idle animation to the super animation and all of a sudden you’re getting wrecked by a super you couldn’t predict. Definitely a drawback.
open source is like an school, where teatchers teach students a lot knowlege so they dont have to rediscover the fire and reinvent the whell, the civilization have mileniuns of accumulated knowledge ,almost the entire evolution of the civilization was made by sharing knowledge. yet people completely under estimate it and under value it, under fund it.
the main reason why some proprietary codes are better than some alternative counterparts is that open source is underfunded as hell.
yet, despite being underfund it often get the same level of quality or is much better than the proprietary counterparts.
Well said 🤝
earned my sub im pretty tech illiterate and you broke it down into easy to understand pieces that i could use to make the conclusions on my own, overall to the point and extremely informative. well done! 👌🏼
Glad I could help 🤝
This is a good video. I like the example you made and this is helping de-rust how I might approach a rollback netcode project of my own!
Trying to make some chocolate cake :)
Great video! Gonna link people to this in the future when they want to learn about rollback
I don't understand why Bandai Namco tried GGPO on a DBZ game and decided to not do it for Smash Ultimate
Nintendo didn't budget the retrofitting like Bamco did for DBFZ. Even if it was a hackjob, Arcsys has experience with a rollback pipeline. Smash would also not get the same proportional marketing boost from rollback. Fighting games getting rollback gets signal boosted to the whole FGC, but Smash is so big that the profit turnaround is pennies to what they've already made.
@@ryanfriscia1132so in other words, too much money to care. Sounds like Nintendo.
Actually, Sakurai tried it and he mentions it.
He stated a lot of strange things started to happen though and he didn't like it.
I think that he didn't continue with the development of rollback because of time constraints.
The amount of stuff you would have to account for in rollback is not like any fighter.
Stages, items, and all 80 characters
i know this is an old comment now but after watching this video i could not image smash with rollback, i feel like it would create a confusing mess
And didn’t use it on sparking zero 😢
The only thing uniquely frustrating about Rollback vs Delay is that sometimes you can get rolled back into being hit, or have a hit you got on your screen taken away.
Yep, I agree. I cope by telling myself that move never actually happened, rollback just guessed the wrong game state. It’s brought me inner-peace 🧘
I just started an introductory course in computer sciences. I love fighting games and that's why I would like to know a roadmap on how to start programming for rollback netcode. good video and thanks
Good luck! I started as a CS major but ended up having more fun in the IT classes and changed majors. Have fun. Best tip I had was READ THE DOCUMENTATION 😂
Hey! RUclips recommended me this video on my feed and its really good! Kudos to the work that you're doing 😊
Btw I was wondering if I could help you edit your videos and also make highly engaging shorts out of them. But I'm not really sure if it is the best time?
Great video, sub added!
🤝
Gives rollback explanation, drops a link to a video about how Linux works. Refuses to elaborate. Leaves. 😂
Ok maybe I trimmed too much fat 😅
@@DualWieldingDad naw i think it’s kind of great I’m glad it got recommended to me 😂. RUclips is all about experimenting, dawg. Keep it up.
I'm pretty sure rollback net code is most commonly used in car games
Maybe it’s something similar. The wiki listing all the games that use this original method of rollback didn’t mention many racing games.
It's similar but not quite the same, car games and other games with a larger number of players in a session tend to use a server as the source of truth and as what syncs all sides
The rollback used in fighting games let the computers of both players do the heavy lifting because a server in the middle keeping track of the whole match with only 2 players would be more costly and increase the lag which is a downside both for the players and the devs/publishers for very little gain(that said, fighting games still do have servers but only for matchmaking and keeping track of ranks and there might be some or even many fighting games that do opt for a server based scheme for a multitude of reasons)
the best netcode ever are just moving into South Korea because of the best internet speed compared to the world
I'd vacation there just to experience their internet infrastructure
Apparently not only fighting games, but racing games? F-Zero 99 uses net code I hear.
Yes other games do use rollback for various reasons. It just started here with fighting games and became the standard.
U feel the lag at 3 rollback
Damn... I'm a little disappointed. I thought it would be something like reduce the game speed to compensate for loss of packages.
You are describing delay based netcode which is less favorable in fighting games since it slows them down and interrupts the flow of the game.
Somebody should show DSP this video.