Thank you Colin... Interesting, very. exhaustive explanation .. simple, easily understandable,suitable for those with few technical connections about rig and his components excellent for those who have good knowledge and want to refine them,Very useful to better choose your material, and to be able to control it in a more conscious way
Hey Colin nice video!!, what do you think on the french inverted 3ring system the situation of a horseshoe or malfunction where the riser put presure on th rings, even if you release the cable the riser will not release. Que piensa del sistema de 3ring invertido de PdeF, por ejemplo con una malfuncion como la herradura la presion del riser sobre las anillas aunque se haya quitado el cable amarillo no va a desprender.
Hello Nico, thank for watching and for your question. This interesting subject will be covered in the future (when I eventually get to it) in The RiserCovers video. But in short, even with conventional 3Ring system a, Low Drag Malfunction, Tight RiserCover, horizontal flat body position, the rings may not do their little party trick and flip over (what was Newton's third law of motion). The risers curving over your shoulders and snuggly held "safely" in place by very effective RiserCovers, may not transfer sufficient force all the way down at the rings, whether they face forward or the inverted (designed by Sandy Reid, borrowed by PdeFr) There may come a time, you need to physically assist the separation of your risers.
Two comments- having the housings float with a downward stop as illustrated will do nothing to prevent loading of the cutaway cable via the riser loop. If there is sufficient friction from the left side cable and housing, that friction can be transferred across the double clamp, and transferred to the right side riser loop. As soon as the top side of the cutaway housing grommet and bottom side of the riser grommet start to put the loop into shear, the cutaway forces increase dramatically. Comment two- compressing the left side cutaway housing before cutting the cutaway cables to length can eliminate the out of sequence cutaway issue you describe. It may not be practical if the housings are REALLY springy, however.
Hello HydridVW, sorry for the delay in my response. Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment. Interesting point of view, not sure if I get what you are thinking. The potential for a cable suck-through, if it happens, when it happens, it will be at the peak load of the extremely hard opening, if you are present at that moment your primary concern will be to keep your head on your body, the chance of you pulling on your cutaway handle at that precise time is not likely, it will probably need a moment or two, to reach a decision, by which time.... With properly lubricated cables, good geometry 3Ring system, correctly attached non-compressible housings, I think you will find the AMP Fitting will sit comfortably up against the riser grommet, in most cases. Bill Booth and his team of engineers did not dream this up over night, the system has evolved over quite some years. As far all compressing the Lh housing then cutting the cable. You are putting yourself in great danger, in the early days of attempting to solve the Javelin SoftHousing issues (without fitting proper Housings), one of the recommendations was, what you have suggested. They later retracted the recommendation decease it was so open to misinterpretation. The number of Lh riser accidental release on opening (if you were lucky) or deeper in to the canopy flight close to the planet, increased dramatically. I can remember people having a "routine" of pulling what little remained exposed of their Lh cable, back out as far as they could get it (on the riser end !) in flight, first thing after opening, not what most would consider a suitable solution. Please be very careful if you decide to get your cable cutters out, I have used up many meters of my Yellow cable stock, replacing cables after someone cut the Lh too short. The tension on the cable in a 1G cutaway is obviously not the same as a 4G cutaway, so with the compressible housing will you set your cable length for a high or low G malfunction ? We need a Crystal ball in the tool kit as wall. All the best, Colin.
Video was great, but I have to correct you on reverse risers. They are inferior design for 2 reasons. 1. Force to cutaway increases more with more force loading the system than in forward facing rings (in other words it is not as efficient as forward facing risers). 2. They produce problems when there is something pressed against them (like reserve risers). So they won't release in dual out scenarios and in horshue scenarios.
Hello Jerolim Duplacic, Than you for taking the time to watch and make your comment. If you are after the lowest possible force on a cutaway, then consider the following; 1.Deliberately practice, the procedure with your equipment (be sure to peel the Velcro first, etc, etc) 2.Use Standard size 3Rings.(constructed in accordance with Bill Booths Specifications) 3.Use a good lubricant on your yellow cables. 4.Have a conservative wing load. 5.Have the best Housings available. 6.Get the Job done, before your Vestibular System falls pray to the Coriolis Effect. Please do not put the Post. October 1992 PdeFr risers (some Pre. Oct 1992 PdeFr risers did not meet the mark, hence the SB) in the same boat as TES's "artistic interpretation", of Sandy Reid's design.(that continue to confuse people) Which I"ll happely repeat, was a Clever and Elegant Solution to the problem the parachute industry was attempting to solve at that time in our evolution. Having a riser fail is not cool, but neither are Ty8 risers with classic size Rings,(what a dilemma) that by the way have also had their share of issues. (stiff loop material, confluence wrap snagging top Ring, soft rings, to name a few) The not very scientific "Three Block Test" of the TSE risers in +- 1997, then the loop inspection (not to be longer than 25mm)March 1997 finally the Recall, May 1997 and replacement (with "Clasic"Ty17 Risers that still did not meet the design specification or quality that, by that time Bill Booth had made open source [if my memory serves me well] Neton's there law, requires something to be pulling on the risers, if the main bag is not lifting off your back, the riser covers are closed as a result(could be for several reasons), it could be that even "classic 3Rings" just stay put, until an equal and opposite force takes action. Yes the observation that the angle the risers sit related to the rest of the Harness/Reserve Risers, But it could be if you're actual hanging under the canopy that clearance is sufficient for the magic to happen ? When I get to the RiserCover part of my Workshop this may be a little clearer. Wish you all the best, Colin.
@@thomson1963 Thank you for your reply. Your videos are great real gem. I agree with 100% that you said, but where I felt something is missing is the part that I have commented on. I know this as we are having 15 years ago a lots of reverse risers from PdF on our DZ, and we tried some combinations with them on the ground, also there was study with measurements explaining greater release forces on spinners that are above 2-3Gs. So we removed them from all faster canopies and they remained on some accuracy rigs till present day.
What is your opinion about people who clean the cutaway cables with water in humidity conditions??? With the argument that silicon is not that good because dust can stuck there and keep inside the housing ???? Do you recommend clean inside the housing ???
Hello vf Ra, Good of you to make the time to watch the video and ask your question, thank you. Water will shift dust for sure, may not remove the black marks quite so easily. Having a 0% lubricated cable is madness, if you have no silicon, OK 3in1 oil or if the war is about to start and they are coming over the hill shooting, I'd grab the coconut oil from the kitchen or some thing, anything "anti-squeak". Preferably Silicon from Airtec for the Cypres Loops, surely you can find it on every DZ maintenance facility. If you are in a very dusty area, fire up the air compressor, give it a wee blow. I have a flexible rifle cleaning brush, last time I used it was to remove an insects house on a ripcord housing. No reason why you couldn't use a small piece of T-shirt material pulled through with a wire, be sure not to leave any bits inside. There was a time when ripcord housing would have a seal cover fitted on the Pin end, the idea was to stop the "pea gravel"(small stones) from the landing area, getting stuck inside and locking the cable. Maybe this is where the idea of the dust was stated. If dust is really an issue in the housings it could be another canopy flight school may help, so the housing don't end up in the dust : ) "On Condition" if it looks dirty clean it, But Please re-lubricate the the cables before refitting. If you insist on doing it too often, see of you can avoid peeling the velcro every time, just angel the harness so you can pull the cables out with the Pad still in place. We don't want you Pad falling off because the velcro is so worn out. All the best, Colin.
Hi and thanks for this video. You explain why it's a good idea to have the RSL on the left riser without housing, but is there a good reason to leave it on the right on some rigs ? My rig has it's RSL on the right (with non-compressible housing), and I wonder if it's because "it always been like this" or if there is another reason.
hey bro, if you have non compressible housing you can pretty much have the cutaway cables release the risers at the exact same time. In order to always activate the rsl side last, some manufacturers increase the rsl side cable by a few centimetres. this will ensure the rsl side is always released last. The fact that its on the right side, which i find is the case with most rigs probably comes down to the manufacturing process, this way the rsl cable will be pulling the pin from the opposite side of the reserve cable, creating a lesser likelyhood of entanglement i presume. Also being on the more commonly dominant side (right hand) might help with releasing the rsl in sticky situations, but this is a more controversial opinion.
@@Frickflyers Hello Wawet, Thanks for watching, sorry not to reply instantly. What Rig do you use? Did I manage to help you understand it a little better than you did before? Are there any gray zones you're like cleared up?
Excellent well done I learned a lot about housing. Great photography
You are like the bob ross of skydiving 😇🤙
Thank you Colin... Interesting, very. exhaustive explanation .. simple, easily understandable,suitable for those with few technical connections about rig and his components excellent for those who have good knowledge and want to refine them,Very useful to better choose your material, and to be able to control it in a more conscious way
Good job Colin.
Do not delay in publishing the second part, please. 😄
Thank you very much Colin for a very informative video lesson.
Great videos! Keep them coming !
Thank you for the very informative video
Thank
👏👏🏅🏅🏅🏅🏅🏅💯
معلومات قيمة
Keep it up 👍
Hey Colin nice video!!, what do you think on the french inverted 3ring system the situation of a horseshoe or malfunction where the riser put presure on th rings, even if you release the cable the riser will not release. Que piensa del sistema de 3ring invertido de PdeF, por ejemplo con una malfuncion como la herradura la presion del riser sobre las anillas aunque se haya quitado el cable amarillo no va a desprender.
Hello Nico, thank for watching and for your question.
This interesting subject will be covered in the future (when I eventually get to it) in The RiserCovers video.
But in short, even with conventional 3Ring system a, Low Drag Malfunction, Tight RiserCover, horizontal flat body position, the rings may not do their little party trick and flip over (what was Newton's third law of motion).
The risers curving over your shoulders and snuggly held "safely" in place by very effective RiserCovers, may not transfer sufficient force all the way down at the rings, whether they face forward or the inverted (designed by Sandy Reid, borrowed by PdeFr)
There may come a time, you need to physically assist the separation of your risers.
Two comments- having the housings float with a downward stop as illustrated will do nothing to prevent loading of the cutaway cable via the riser loop. If there is sufficient friction from the left side cable and housing, that friction can be transferred across the double clamp, and transferred to the right side riser loop. As soon as the top side of the cutaway housing grommet and bottom side of the riser grommet start to put the loop into shear, the cutaway forces increase dramatically.
Comment two- compressing the left side cutaway housing before cutting the cutaway cables to length can eliminate the out of sequence cutaway issue you describe. It may not be practical if the housings are REALLY springy, however.
Hello HydridVW,
sorry for the delay in my response.
Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment.
Interesting point of view, not sure if I get what you are thinking.
The potential for a cable suck-through, if it happens, when it happens,
it will be at the peak load of the extremely hard opening, if you are present at that moment your primary concern will be to keep your head on your body,
the chance of you pulling on your cutaway handle at that precise time is not likely, it will probably need a moment or two, to reach a decision, by which time....
With properly lubricated cables, good geometry 3Ring system, correctly attached non-compressible housings, I think you will find the AMP Fitting will sit comfortably up against the riser grommet, in most cases.
Bill Booth and his team of engineers did not dream this up over night, the system has evolved over quite some years.
As far all compressing the Lh housing then cutting the cable.
You are putting yourself in great danger, in the early days of attempting to solve the Javelin SoftHousing issues (without fitting proper Housings), one of the recommendations was, what you have suggested.
They later retracted the recommendation decease it was so open to misinterpretation.
The number of Lh riser accidental release on opening (if you were lucky) or deeper in to the canopy flight close to the planet, increased dramatically.
I can remember people having a "routine" of pulling what little remained exposed of their Lh cable, back out as far as they could get it (on the riser end !) in flight, first thing after opening,
not what most would consider a suitable solution.
Please be very careful if you decide to get your cable cutters out,
I have used up many meters of my Yellow cable stock, replacing cables after someone cut the Lh too short.
The tension on the cable in a 1G cutaway is obviously not the same as a 4G cutaway,
so with the compressible housing will you set your cable length for a high or low G malfunction ?
We need a Crystal ball in the tool kit as wall.
All the best,
Colin.
Video was great, but I have to correct you on reverse risers. They are inferior design for 2 reasons. 1. Force to cutaway increases more with more force loading the system than in forward facing rings (in other words it is not as efficient as forward facing risers). 2. They produce problems when there is something pressed against them (like reserve risers). So they won't release in dual out scenarios and in horshue scenarios.
Hello Jerolim Duplacic,
Than you for taking the time to watch and make your comment.
If you are after the lowest possible force on a cutaway, then consider the following;
1.Deliberately practice, the procedure with your equipment (be sure to peel the Velcro first, etc, etc)
2.Use Standard size 3Rings.(constructed in accordance with Bill Booths Specifications)
3.Use a good lubricant on your yellow cables.
4.Have a conservative wing load.
5.Have the best Housings available.
6.Get the Job done, before your Vestibular System falls pray to the Coriolis Effect.
Please do not put the Post. October 1992 PdeFr risers (some Pre. Oct 1992 PdeFr risers did not meet the mark, hence the SB) in the same boat as TES's "artistic interpretation",
of Sandy Reid's design.(that continue to confuse people)
Which I"ll happely repeat, was a Clever and Elegant Solution to the problem the parachute industry was attempting to solve at that time in our evolution.
Having a riser fail is not cool, but neither are Ty8 risers with classic size Rings,(what a dilemma)
that by the way have also had their share of issues. (stiff loop material, confluence wrap snagging top Ring, soft rings, to name a few)
The not very scientific "Three Block Test" of the TSE risers in +- 1997,
then the loop inspection (not to be longer than 25mm)March 1997
finally the Recall, May 1997 and replacement (with "Clasic"Ty17 Risers that still did not meet the design specification or quality that, by that time Bill Booth had made open source [if my memory serves me well]
Neton's there law, requires something to be pulling on the risers, if the main bag is not lifting off your back, the riser covers are closed as a result(could be for several reasons), it could be that even "classic 3Rings" just stay put,
until an equal and opposite force takes action.
Yes the observation that the angle the risers sit related to the rest of the Harness/Reserve Risers,
But it could be if you're actual hanging under the canopy that clearance is sufficient for the magic to happen ?
When I get to the RiserCover part of my Workshop this may be a little clearer.
Wish you all the best,
Colin.
@@thomson1963 Thank you for your reply. Your videos are great real gem. I agree with 100% that you said, but where I felt something is missing is the part that I have commented on. I know this as we are having 15 years ago a lots of reverse risers from PdF on our DZ, and we tried some combinations with them on the ground, also there was study with measurements explaining greater release forces on spinners that are above 2-3Gs. So we removed them from all faster canopies and they remained on some accuracy rigs till present day.
What is your opinion about people who clean the cutaway cables with water in humidity conditions??? With the argument that silicon is not that good because dust can stuck there and keep inside the housing ???? Do you recommend clean inside the housing ???
Hello vf Ra,
Good of you to make the time to watch the video and ask your question, thank you.
Water will shift dust for sure, may not remove the black marks quite so easily.
Having a 0% lubricated cable is madness,
if you have no silicon, OK 3in1 oil or if the war is about to start and they are coming over the hill shooting,
I'd grab the coconut oil from the kitchen or some thing, anything "anti-squeak".
Preferably Silicon from Airtec for the Cypres Loops, surely you can find it on every DZ maintenance facility.
If you are in a very dusty area, fire up the air compressor, give it a wee blow.
I have a flexible rifle cleaning brush, last time I used it was to remove an insects house on a ripcord housing.
No reason why you couldn't use a small piece of T-shirt material pulled through with a wire, be sure not to leave any bits inside.
There was a time when ripcord housing would have a seal cover fitted on the Pin end, the idea was to stop the "pea gravel"(small stones) from the landing area, getting stuck inside and locking the cable.
Maybe this is where the idea of the dust was stated.
If dust is really an issue in the housings it could be another canopy flight school may help, so the housing don't end up in the dust : )
"On Condition" if it looks dirty clean it,
But Please re-lubricate the the cables before refitting.
If you insist on doing it too often, see of you can avoid peeling the velcro every time, just angel the harness so you can pull the cables out with the Pad still in place.
We don't want you Pad falling off because the velcro is so worn out.
All the best,
Colin.
Hi and thanks for this video. You explain why it's a good idea to have the RSL on the left riser without housing, but is there a good reason to leave it on the right on some rigs ? My rig has it's RSL on the right (with non-compressible housing), and I wonder if it's because "it always been like this" or if there is another reason.
hey bro, if you have non compressible housing you can pretty much have the cutaway cables release the risers at the exact same time. In order to always activate the rsl side last, some manufacturers increase the rsl side cable by a few centimetres. this will ensure the rsl side is always released last. The fact that its on the right side, which i find is the case with most rigs probably comes down to the manufacturing process, this way the rsl cable will be pulling the pin from the opposite side of the reserve cable, creating a lesser likelyhood of entanglement i presume. Also being on the more commonly dominant side (right hand) might help with releasing the rsl in sticky situations, but this is a more controversial opinion.
After watching part 3, I realized that the RSL on the right is also better for the collins lanyard placement.
@@Wawet76 havent watched part 3 yet! on it now!
@@Frickflyers Hello Wawet,
Thanks for watching, sorry not to reply instantly.
What Rig do you use?
Did I manage to help you understand it a little better than you did before?
Are there any gray zones you're like cleared up?