@@shalice7784 Though, they have sworn off saying JK's name, released merch to send money to trans organizations, and are otherwise allies who absolutely oppose bigotry. The story is just important to them as a piece of fiction
Thank you. If Remus is to be believed, then Snape and James were as bad as each other. A difference between them is James changed his bullying ways in his youth, enough that Lily forgave him for his former arrogance and fell for him in their final year at Hogwarts, while Snape continued to bully and belittle people up until just before he died - and not just bullying James or those connected to him, but completely unrelated CHILDREN such as Neville and Hermione.
I always liked/respected Snape even back in the 1st Book. Yes, he goes a little too far with Neville. But he actually does care about the students in general and merely holds them to high standards. Yes there are harsh moments with Hermione, but most of the time he respects her since she can meet his High Standards. As for Neville, I always feel Snape's methods are bad but his intentions are to push him to be better.
this is crazy james was an arsehole you don’t need to invent a defence so we can fit everyone into a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ box, james was a spoiled kid who was never told no, sure he grew up but a lot of school bullies do, doesn’t mean they were always good
did you even read the books? Did you even watch this video? JAMES ONLY BULLIED SNAPE BECAUSE SNAPE WAS A WANNABE DEATH EATER SINCE THE AGE OF 11, JAMES WASN'T BULLYING A HARMLESS CHILD, HE WAS TEACHING A FUTURE DEATH EATER A LESSON @@blueberrycranberrycherry
@@morrigankasa570 Intentions or not Snape is still a Neville's worst fear, that is beyond a little too far. No teacher should ever be a child's worst fear, but especially not a child who has some serious trauma. Also not in the movie but is in the books, I don't think Snape respects hermione at all because in their fourth(?) year when Hermione's teeth grew he said he saw no difference
@@kassidicatanag1379 To be fair, Neville at that point was essentially afraid of everything anyway. Due to lack of confidence, even before dealing with Snape in 1st Year. So to me with that context it doesn't make Snape any worse. Sure, if it had been someone like Harry or Hermione that was terrified of Snape then that would be troubling. As for that 4th Year Hermione thing, I think he said that not to be cruel or anything but because Him and Dumbledore where seeing the signs of Voldy's return. They knew if it happened then Snape needed to keep his cover to successfully be able to pass amongst the Death Eaters. Since Malfoy was there and caused that he especially needed to be careful. But in general I think he respected Hermione. Sure some of his comments towards her and others are harsh. But I still think his intentions are ok.
For me, i always imagined the situation being something like these: - We know voldemort was already in the open by the time james and the rest came to hogwarts, they were in school at wartime or at very least, a realy tense "calm before the storm" situation. - From what we know from Snape's memories, and the fact that all of the marauders joined the order immediately after graduation, i think we can assume that "camps" of support for both voldemort and the order/ministry were starting to form while they were at school, with james in one and snape in the other. - snape and james personal animosity towards each other was likely only exaggerated by them being in the same year and wanting the same girl. - i also think there is a place to assume that both james and sirius being "blood-traitors" Put them on the map for snape's friends, but with sirius for most of his years at hogwarts still a "official" part of the black family and therefore relatively untouchable, left james as the primary source of harrasment for the "voldy-youth".
A Snape/Mauraders series would be elite. From the last year/s of school to the: Death of James Lilly, Peter and Siruis fight, Lupins struggle in society and Snapes change of Loyalty. Would be an insane story arc.
For me it boils down to the decisions they made as adults. Granted James had less time to "go bad" as an adult considering his death at 21 years old...but Snape strait up bully's children as an adult, and not just Harry(for the sins of the father) but also Hermoine and Nevile. Which is why for years I have said that "Snape is a hero but he is not a good guy". Great video!!! Thought provoking and a worthwhile discussion. Thanks SCB Team!
James didn't live long enough to become a bully like Snape. Had Snape married Lily, James would have been just as bitter. And James would have bullied Slytherin students.
I think that comparing James and Sirius was really smart because they were very similar in youth, but because we see what Sirius becomes no one see's him as a bully unlike James😁
And it isn't like Sirius is perfect. We do see bits of the faults he always had and James was rather similar to him. Harry ultimately doesn't see Sirius as a responsible trustworthy adult because he never unwraps the mirror. Sirius just isn't serious enough, his personal development got stuck while he was in prison, and if James ever got to grow up more than Sirius did is unknown. I stand by the idea that Snape's first year curses was more about profanity because how could he possibly learn that living with his dad? Snape definitely gave as good as he got, sure, but that line from Remus seems a bit dishonest to me. He's trying to make a connection with Harry, who also dislikes Snape. There is hyperbole on both sides and the truth is clearly in the middle somewhere.
@@sofiadragon6520 how would it be more about profanity haha. yeah his dad was a muggle but his mother was a pureblood Slytherin. She probably gave him books/tutored him, he was already doing magic before he even turned 11.
I genuinely love James Potter. He is the definition of an idiot kid that had a heart of gold and was able to get over it and grow into a great man. I wish we saw more moments of James within memories of Sirius or Remus or something to be able to see his better and softer moments rather than an old school rivalry. I always thought that if Voldemort decided to go for the Longbottoms, Snape would have remained a loyal death eater.
He absolutely would have and that's one thing that solidifies him as a villain in my eyes. He was never even truly on the good side, everything that he did that can even remotely be perceived as 'doing the right thing' being on Dumbles' orders
@@TheKabuto90 exactlyyy ! that’s part of the reason why i was never able to like snape. that and the way he treated kids, the fact that he was neville’s worst fear when neville has also been through some things (bellatrix, rodolphus, rabastan, and barty crouch jr torturing his parents to insanity) and his worst fear was his teacher??
For me Snape’s entire two drives for every choice he makes is to either be with (read as possess) Lily or to get revenge on Voldemort for taking Lily away from him. Those two reasons explain everything he does and are in line with his past of being a death eater that clearly would have had very low moral standards (if bullying 11 year olds wasn’t already an indicator of that).
Agreed. Snape only ran to Dumbledore & switched sides bc Voldemort decided to go after the Potter’s, and he only cared specifically bc of Lilly. If Voldemort had decided to go after the Longbottoms, I 100% believe that Snape would have never flipped to the good side. And he only protected Harry, and followed Dumbledore’s orders, bc Harry was Lily’s son and Voldemort killed Lily. He didn’t see Harry for Harry, nor as an innocent child who needed protecting from a dark wizard, bc it’s the right thing to do. Snape also didn’t care about the fate of the wizarding world or muggles, he cared about avenging Lily. Snape did a good thing for a selfish reason.
Heres the thing. James' biggest detractor is Severus Snape. A jealous bitter, hateful enemy of James. And James still saved his life. And here's what we know about memories, they can be altered based on the way the person feels. Slughorn legit had false memories about the horcurxes, and Harry had to get the real one. Who is to say Snapes memories arent effected by his own feelings. He hated James and "loved" Lily. Remember Dumbledore was disgusted by him. Very uncharacteristically of him regarding others.
Even if they aren’t distorted memories this particular instance is one of the only ones that Snape chooses to remove from his mind so harry doesn’t accident see it. Meaning it’s probably the worst most embarrassing one for Snape meaning it’s the one James would come off looking the worst in.
@@conormurphy4328 Snape didn't remove it because of how it showed James. He removed it because, if Harry had stayed, it would have showed Harry the breakup moment between Severus and Lilly. In the book, Snape came in while the memory was still going and took Harry out of the Pensive. The chapter was titled "Snape's Worst Memory" if I recall correctly, and that was due not to what happened to him via James, but his "Mudblood" comment and what came afterward.
@@littlefoot5013how do you know that it solely referred to his breakup with Lily? Surely being humiliated by the person you hate most in the world is just as bad as losing a friendship with your best friend. Especially as they happened at the same time. And if it was about Lily then why did Snape include the events from the exam onwards and not just the sections that included Lily? It’s obviously referring to the whole memory.
I feel like people always see Snape as this bullied loner kid, but he had friends! By his own admittance he had friends other than Lily, ones who also became Death Eaters. To me, it is clear that Snape and James had a mutual rivalry that mimicked the greater war going on and that it was more than just the two of them going after each other, their friend groups were also in on it. Also, because of his early childhood, Snape hated muggles and treated Lily's sister with condescension and disgust.
Exactly, with friends like that he was clearly led astray. Snape was smart and talented. He should have been put in ravenclaw and the whole story would have been different.
@@kellysouter4381 I actually disagree with you there. I don't think Slytherin was the problem, he had that disdain and hatred instilled in him before he ever came to Hogwarts. Not for Muggleborns necessarily but for Muggles definitely. Also, yes he was smart but to what end? He was ambitious which is why he was put in Slytherin to begin with. He didn't learn for the sake of knowledge. He learned for the sake of power and ambition. "Bottle fame, brew glory, and even put a stopper on death"; sounds a lot more like a Slytherin than a Ravenclaw. In a different timeline where he was never forced to work under Dumbledore's thumb or if there was never a war, Snape could have been a much more subtle dark lord of his own.
@@janealroberts7585 There is probably a fun theory in there - What WOULD Snape had done with his life if he graduated from Hogwarts and Voldemort hadn't risen to power? Professional Potion Maker running an Anti-Muggle Newsletter on the side?
Petunia was classist to his birthplace and clothes, overall disrespectful to him which would only confirm snape bias, not saying that amkes it alright of him but it does mean he is misguided at this point. Also yes, snaoe is not a loner, not by 5 year "I dont like the people you been hanging out with" which lily says, that sounds like a recent thing, not like they have been friends for years, also james attacking other slytherins and targeting proto death eaters is not canon, is pure fanon, is born out of desire to make james actions seem rigthtious and whitewash him
Like we’re all just assuming that the 10 min we saw in his memory is the first time he called Lily a mudblood but he was probably saying it behind her back long before and if he wasn’t his friends were….maybe he deserved it. Maybe James targeted him /because/ he was a creep who called his crush slurs…..is that the best way to handle it especially when Lily specifically asked him not to, no, but it’s not like he’s just an asshole popular bully just because Snape sees him that way. No one got mad at Ron and called him a bully for trying to curse Draco
4:17 this is one of the many reasons why we need a marauders series. It would give us so much more understanding of their actual dynamic. Also, this whole video is the exact argument that I use when people say that James Potter was not a good guy. It’s always in relation to how he treated Snape and always people who haven’t read the books because they don’t understand the actual character growth
I never understood people who say that James is a horrible bully and Snape is an innocent victim. They all seem to forget that Snape despised muggle borns, called Lily a mudblood, was a death eater (at the time he was still at school!!) and sorrounded himself with people who then became murderers. If I knew a person like that, I at least wouldn't consider him as a poor guy who was mistreated.
People also tend to forget that James, Sirius, Snape went to school during the first wizarding war. People were disappearing, Voldemort was terrorizing the wizarding world and Snape was pretty open about his fascination with dark arts and his desire to join the death eaters. It's like saying that you like Ben Laden while going to an american schools after 9/11. You would certainly get bullied for being a terrorist sympathizer and Voldemort literally was a wizard terrorist
@villekuronen6242 so, what you're saying here is, Snape hated all muggleborn because of their lack of blood purity? I'm not defending James here, but Snape was a bully....... You see how easy it is to be narrow about these things? Just because James and Snape didn't get along, and BOTH of them tried to aggravate each other as often as possible does not make either of them a bully Basically every other account we have of James, aside from the one memory from Snape, had nothing to do with him doing anything to anyone else.
It’s never actually stated, but I wonder if Dumbledore told Lily and James the real reason why Voldemort was after them. Did he just use the the fact that they thwarted Voldemort 3 times and were targeted because of that. Or did he tell them the truth that their son had the potential to be the one to put an end to Voldemort?
Actually a very good question! I guess they knew some pieces about it, like the other members of the Order of the Phoenix, but not the exact complete wording
It’s so weird that people want to hold James accountable for his actions at 15 yrs old (or being generous 11-15 yrs old) but don’t want to hold Snape accountable for becoming a Death Eater and then bullying students as an adult. James cleaned up his act by his 6th school year, so much so that he became Head Boy without even being a prefect first. That means that by at least 16 or so, he grew out of this. Snape NEVER grew out of his love for the dark arts. He never grew out of wizard supremacist ideology. He was just salty with Voldemort for killing Lily.
I actually liked/respected Snape even back in the 1st Book. Sure his methods are a bit harsh/excessive at times, yet I mainly think he's just holding them to a High Standard and his methods are to push the students to be their best. He also genuinely did change his views of "Wizard Supremacy" and simply kept up the act with the Death Eaters to keep his cover. Finally, even Dumbledore had views of "Wizard Supremacy" until his sister died. Also, Dumbledore absolutely trusted Snape and respected him. Additionally, you have to consider Snape's upbringing/childhood. His family was troubled to a large extent which warped his personality/views and so of course he would be tempted by power because he was powerless at home.
Exactly my thoughts, I can't imagine how he treated children that Neville's worst fear was Snape. Also I don't even hesitate to think that Snape would have stuch with Voldy if only he had gone for the Longbottoms.
@@srivastava6400 100% I think it’s fairly obvious from the text that Snape would have stayed with Voldemort if Voldemort had kept his word and hadn’t murdered Lily. Because he literally asked Voldemort to kill James and Harry but leave Lily, that’s what he wanted anyway.
I'd go as far as to say that James bullying Snape was a good thing because Snape was an aspiring death eater even at the age of 11. Unpopular opinion, James was doing a good deed by putting Snivellus in his place.
The fact that so many people in the HP community support a wizard N@zi over a kid who was a bit of a bully as a 15 year old is in my opinion one of the darkest aspects of the entire community. I dont care what Snape does to redeem himself the fact that he sold out a little baby to get murdered will forever make him just as evil as any other character to me. Think about how Snape continually bullies Neville for his entire life just because he wishes Voldemort would have chosen to kill him over Lillys son. That whole thing just makes me sick tbh.
I think those people are the ones who haven’t read the books. I only watched the movies and from all these videos I have learned that Snape was much worse in the books than we see in the moves. For all of these missed details I have started to read the books.
Have you ever considered making a video about how wizards would cope in the modern world? Like how would the statute of secrecy hold up with almost all muggles having access to mobile phones to record everything they see and drones, satellites, internet and modern weapons? How could wizards erase a video that has been posted online? They can't obliviate the entire world. I think it would be quite interesting to dive into.
Well technology seems to not work around magic so it could just be so easy as that anything recording hogwarts or whtv would be disturbed and unusuable footage
@@feliciastaldotter5168 Which would be a problem of its own, because then rumors would pop up of a special place where technology doesn't work or goes on the fritz without apparent cause or scientific explanation, think the Bermuda Triangle times a thousand since this would be something that could be immediately documented and observed by just going over to where Hogwarts is supposed to be. In summary, it's the Streisand Effect.
@@Jinzulen Exactly this. Diagon Alley is smack dab in the middle of London. One of the most surveilled cities on Earth. A constantly growing beheamoth of tech. Eventually, someone is going to build something sensitive too close to magic and it will be noticed. Satellite imagery of the planet will show areas that muggles are unable to approach on foot which will result in massive efforts to uncover these strange phenomena. Basically, with the surge in access to technology of the 21st century, HP takes place in the last moment in time where the magical world as explained in the books could possibly exist. Sooner or later, either magicals will start getting repeatedly caught on camera. Or the muggles will stumble across magic, be confused about what's going on and pump billions of dollars into R&D to figure out what's going on and how to circumvent it. And the only thing that the magicals could do is forcible take over high levels positions to delay it. And even then you'll get private interest groups doing it without government approval for the clout or profit potential.
@@tyrannicpuppy Except the British government can steer development away from Diagon Alley so as to help protect it. just a few zoning laws that prohibit anything being built that might interfere with the Magic, and a few spells from the MoM to hide it from satellite imagery.
I've thought for a while that it would be interesting to see a modern kid in Hogwarts. The difference between the 90s and today come down to one thing: Smart Phones. Imagine muggle-born wizards' reaction to not even being able to have their smart phones. "Look through a library of books to find an obscure spell? No thanks, I'll just google it." "A mirror that lets me talk to a friend who has the other half? Cute. I can put my entire family and all my friends on a Zoom meeting." "Moving pictures? Yeah, I'll record a short video and turn it into a gif." (The "talking to the pictures" part will probably be less impressive in about 10-20 years with the advancements in AI being made.) "A letter from your mum by owl. Neat. My mum emailed me last night. Enjoy the owl dung traces on your food." The phones might not work due to muggle tech not working on Hogwarts grounds, but you know there are some muggle-born kids who will reconsider going, never mind their parents who will be shocked at the very idea of not being able to even call their kids for 9 months out of the year.
Throughout the series, especially the later books/movies, we get a skewed view of James and Snape. Yes, James did plenty of wrong in his younger days, but I don't think he's as bad as others make him out to be. Snape on the other hand, I feel gets more love and respect than he deserves. If Voldemort went after Neville instead, I don't think Snape would have the redemption ark we saw.
That is also the reason why Snape hates and torments Neville so much. If Voldemort had chosen to go after Neville rather than Harry, Lily would still be alive.
We don’t necessarily know if James was actually a bully in Hogwarts. We know he and Snape had a mutual hatred for each other that resulted in them constantly getting into conflicts. However the one time we actually see it is Snape’s “worst memory” which obviously would put James in a bad light. Perhaps compared to Harry and Draco’s rivalry but only seeing when harry used Sectumsempra on Draco and none of the other context. We have a quote from Sirius about James “hexing people just for the fun of it” but we also have a quote from Lupin about Levicorpus and how “you couldn’t move for being hoisted into the air by your ankle” which makes me think that apart from his rivalry with Snape it was more him showing off his ego than actually bullying other kids. Which is still a negative trait but I feel labelling him a bully is more from Snape’s bias.
How in the world do we even begin to get to that conclusion? We have concrete evidence of James being an asshole. Harassing Lily constantly, threatening her friend because of an obsessive romantic attraction as if she was a prize, Harry sifting through old records of served detentions in The Half Blood Prince and the vast amount of bullying/ harassment form the marauders. The fact that James himself says ‘it’s more the fact that he exists’ when Lily asks him what’s Severus ever done to him.
also in the memory he does more than lift by the ankle he makes a comment about striping snape before the cut away. james was a bully but with snape its more of a torture. why do you think snape invented spells. it was more of a defensive behavior. honestly idk about if james got any better behaved after 6 year because idk if he did a year 7 but james was a horrible person and i dont understand why lily ever dated him because he was still actively targeting snape at the time
We do know he was a bully, though. He asks Sirius and Lupin about the time James lifted Snape into the air and they pretty much confirm that's exactly how it went down. And Lupin continuously, throughout OOTP talks about how Dumbledore made him a prefect to perhaps knock some sense into James, Peter, and Sirius, but he was never able to because as a werewolf he didn't wanna do anything that would endanger the few friendships he had
Well and even then, everyone was doing it, it was more like a popular practical joke, much more Fred-and-George-esque. And though he obviously had an ego, I think it’s a much more surface level one than a deep ego, seeing as the ones he befriends are outcasts and he befriends them not in an “I’m better than you” way, but really genuinely
@@erikamohrmann7986 no I actually don’t think everyone was issuing the charm to take off and show the genitalia of their peers. Even if it was commonly done that doesn’t make it right. And I respectfully disagree. The Marauders were not outcast. Lupin goes on record saying Sirius and James were the ‘cool’ kids, if they were outcasts they wouldn’t have had a courtyard fulls audience. Sirius says that Severus made himself an easy target because he was an ‘oddball’.
James and Snape interestingly switch positions in relation to Lily. Snape starts off as her childhood friend, but she eventually cuts him out of her life. James is initially a bully, but gradually becomes a better person, and they later end up married.
Thank you for this! It always made me so sad to think that James was such an awful person, but keeping in mind that (a) he was a teenager, (b) book Snape was really horrible to all the students, and (c) memories can be altered. It makes me think of Dumbledore actually. He was bf/bff with one of the darkest wizards of all time and may have been the one to kill his sister. If we had redemption arcs for Sirius, Dumbledore, Draco, and (arguably, in my opinion) Snape, then there certainly was one for James.
You shouldn't, but let's be honest can you think of many or even anyone who has done a full 180 from how they were in school. Especially someone who is hanging out with the same groups.
@@IdentityDM how do you expect him to make amends with Snape when they joined opposing armies right out of school? Snape would have killed him on sight. Edit: this isn’t to excuse the supposed bullying (though I’m of the opinion that it was likely mutual). Just pointing out that he literally _couldn’t_ make amends.
@@IdentityDM why would he make amends? snape had joined the death eaters. it’s not like snape reached out to make amends to james for the things he did to him, considering it is stated many times that the behavior james exhibited towards snape was 100% mutual.
I think that he was mostly to nearly entirely good; however he kind of takes a go at Snape on first sight on the train. It parallels Draco’s first opinion of Ron based (nearly) entirely on appearance with a background helping of bias from Lucius.
Another feather in James; hat is that even when Lily married James, Snape obviously still had feelings for her that I doubt he did that well concealing, and James just let it be. No jealousy or malice over his former rival, no verbal put downs or even the slightest hint of distaste in sight. It's very likely he would have known about Snape from Lily, and guessed he had feeling for her, but you never hear it brought up, even with his closest friends. That shows that he not only cared enough to respect his wife's former friend, but that he is FAR removed from the taunting boy from Snape's memory by then. Frankly, I can't see anyone else handling his former rival still being in love with his wife that well. And Snape doesn't get anywhere NEAR as much reproach for not only being in love with a happily married woman. Even when he tries to "save her" he doesn't take Lily's wishes into account AT ALL. Like what did he think would have happened? That she will be thrilled to be alive at the expense of her husband and one year old son? The fact that she was willing to sacrifice herself for her son shows just how little Snape actually bothered to know what was important to her. If he was a true friend who actually cared about her, he would have the decency to be kind or at the very least polite to her only living son in her memory. He's just so stuck on what might-have-been with Lily that I doubt he would have cared how she felt in the present, she just didn't live long enough for it to progress to the creepy twisted obsession it could have been.
I always have had an issue using Snape’s memories as difinitive evidence of what went down. We know for a fact that memory’s can be changed, Slughorn’s was, and Snape always saw himself as the victim of the situation. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that his memory (from over 15 years before) wasn’t entirely accurate. Snape was part of a friend group of future death eaters, he wasn’t a bullied victim, it was a two way street.
And it's pretty obvious that Snape wanted Harry to see those memories. So just like Slughorn, he could've altered those memories specifically for Harry. To damage his view of his father since Snape was probably incredibly annoyed at how Harry idolized James
@@villekuronen6242Lily however isn't biased though. She didn't like James and hated him for his arrogance and bullying of Snape. If she fell in love with him during their sixth year, that means James actually changed for the better and became worthy of her. Lily's decency is never at all questioned by anyone in the series.
@@robertking4645I am pretty sure, that at least in the book, he specifically removed the memory, putting it in the pensive, so that harry *wouldn‘t* stumble upon it in legimency training. He got called away by someone else and harry snooped. So I wouldn‘t exactly call that „wanting harry to see it“
Snape didn't get redeemed, we just understood his motives. In order to be redeemed, he'd have to admit he was ever wrong about ANYTHING. And he never did, even when he changed sides. Well, ok, he admitted he was wrong about telling Voldermort the Prophecy, but because of WHO it effected, not the effect itself. He still firmly believed in Voldermort's views, he just hated Voldermort himself for targeting Lilly.
I disagree, Snape redeemed himself at the end. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THEN WORDS!!! Sure his methods of teaching were Harsh, but I genuinely think his reasons was to push the students to be their best. He was completely loyal to Dumbledore and even though he wouldn't admit it/realize it I think he actually cared about Harry in the end. Sure he claims it was just for the sake of Lily, but if you look at his Memories he gave Harry at the end. He could've just gave him the bare minimum to complete the Task set forth by Dumbledore. Yet, he chose to include various others purely about Lily & Himself unrelated to that task. I think he did so to provide comfort and so Harry would hopefully better understand what type of person he was. He probably knew that Harry thought he was purely evil/villainous like Voldemort, yet he didn't want Harry to think that and remember him as such. All that to me indicates a level of care/respect towards Harry that he couldn't show until the end.
@@morrigankasa570 I would actually call that one child abuse and animal crulety. and If he just wanted Neville to get it right why wasn't he sadisfied when Hermione helped him? Isn't it part of school that pupils help each other?
I think it's important to remember how young all these characters were. James and Snape were kids during their rivalry, and James dies extremely young (I imagine most people watching this video are older than he was then). Even Snape, nasty as he often is, was barely past 30 when he first met Harry, and dies before 40. Old enough to know better, but hardly a wizened old man.
Age doesn’t always make you wise. Look at Voldy. Snape didn’t show any real positive changes before he died. It’s unlikely he would have become a better person if he’d lived.
@@NsTheNamelol, he was working undercover against literally the devil at his own peril. We will never know if he was going to positively change because he doesn't get the chance, a bit of confirmation bias.. And James Potter was an as*hole 😂
I think the problem with James Potter is mainly in the movies. A lot is left out and you only really see Snape's point of view. The books gives us more details on the nature of James and Snape's relationship. The books showsthat yea James may not have been the greatest person in the world, but Snape also wasn't that great of a person and might have deserved a little bit of what he got. I like to think it was Lily that made a difference. James got to know Lily and learned from her how she didn't like the way he was so he improved himself over time. Similarly, Lily express similar concerns with Snape about the way he was acting, but he never really thought he was doing anything harmful, so he never changed. I know a lot of people compare James and Snape with Harry and Draco. That in the end Harry and Draco were better version of James and Snape had been.
The fact that this video has to be made is insane. Even if James was a bad kid in what is essentially middle/highschool (which, the only one who claims that is Snape so I’ve always taken that with a grain of salt) I’ve always seen James as a testament to the fact that people change. He became a good people as he became an adult.
I think it's more like Sirius told Harry, "The world isn't split into good people and death eaters. We've all got light and dark in us. " No one person is completely bad or good, and the James vs. Snape discussion proves this. Was James a good friend? Yes, absolutely. Was he cruel?Again, the record shows he was also capable of great cruelty. Does this make him a bad person? Not necessarily. We, the reader, are not given a full accounting and are not in a position to make that determination. The best we could say is that James Potter was a complicated person who was deeply loved by those who knew him. On the flip side of the coin, we have Snape. Cold, calculating, deliberately cruel? Again, the answer would have to be yes. But most shocking of all is the depth to which he is capable of loving, the lengths he is willing to go to in order to protect the people he cares for (even if they are unaware), the strength of his loyalty once given, here is a man who keeps his word no matter the cost, one who will turn a deaf ear to what others say about him as he's done all his life in order to play a part given to keep another safe, he puts his life at risk day after day for years all in the name of protecting someone who will never know that's what he's doing all the while having to keep up the appearance that Snape hates him, when asked by his oldest friend to be the to step up and kill him to save a young boys soul and keep his cover intact he does so even though it means bearing the burden of everyones hatred, and at the end he gives his life whilst continuing to keep to the plan set in motion years before. After all this is Snape, a good man? The question is more complicated than good or bad. Sanpe's character and life are extremely complex. I would maybe say he was a man with a good heart that bad things happened to who lost his way, but found it before it was too late.
12:47 In my opinion, emotional wounds take much longer to heal than most physical wounds. Some never recover from them. Honestly, I feel like leaving someone with those emotional scars are much worse than leaving someone with physical scars
Amazing video. I agree with your points. I like James Potter. Of course he was spoilt by his family. But he helped his friends and family a lot. Him and Snape just had a personal feud. Feud between Harry and Malfoy may be a strong parallel to the feud between James and Snape. I also do think that James was Malfoy of his time.
That last point you made is quite excellent. Snape's childhood has a lot of similarities to Harry's, both had abusive/neglectful guardians/parents. Both were Half-Bloods. Both found acceptance/friendship at Hogwarts (also Tom Riddle/Voldy had harsh childhood, Half-Blood, and acceptance at Hogwarts). James and Malfoy on the other hand both were spoiled, both had wealthy parents, both thought they were "all that", both were Pure-Bloods. Both thought they could get away with anything. Both ended up redeeming themselves by the end.
@@morrigankasa570Only Malfoy’s family were Death Eaters. The Potters fall into the same category as the Weasleys: pure bloods, but so pro-Muggle that they’re left off the Sacred Twenty Eight (proper pure blood families).
@@professorbutters True, yet they still spoiled their son. Yes, to be fair they didn't have any other children & struggled to have a child in general. But it doesn't justify spoiling them.
One other thing to take in account, the spell that keeps getting shown as James being a bully (Hanging Snake upside-down) was actually a spell Snape created! Snape had to have used it first for James to learn it.
@@drvoid7Snape himself said he invented it in Half-Blood Prince. Harry had tried to use Sectumsempra on Snape and, after immobilizing Harry, Snape said “You dare use my own spells against me, Potter? It was I who invented them - I, the Half-Blood Prince! And you'd turn my inventions on me, like your filthy father, would you?" The only major spell James Potter is shown to use on Snape is Levicorpus which means Snape invented it. The soap bubble one was a generic spell.
@@toodlescae I wasn't talking about Sectumsempra. I was talking about Levicorpus, and I don't see how James Potter using a spell on Snape means Snape invented it. What is your reasoning behind this? Edit: Okay, it took me a second to see what you mean, but it could mean any spell, really.
I mean,if a dude who first interaction with me was making fun of me for no reason turned out to be a n*zi I would have hate him too. Hard to blame James for it. Also Snape used insults like "lazy" towards James,like how was James lazy? Quidditch captain,Head boy,great student with great grades,animagus at 15.... So yeah,I would not use Snape as a reference for how James truly was,because his perception of him comes off like if he was deeply jealous of him
Don't forget that while at school, while Snape was inventing dark magic curses, James helped make one of the most singularly impressive magical artefacts ever seen in the whole series in the Marauder's Map. For fun too. It wasn't even a class project. Hardly screams lazy to me.
The issue here is we really only see James from Snape's point of view so you only see the bad. James did some very good things for others including Snape who holds onto anger because James saved him. There is contradictory information on why he did it, to "save his own skin" or because he was standing up to his best friend
My only point is that we did not get enough of actual James Potter. All we ever know about him is by people close to him, his rivial Snape and other people who knew him. I still believe if we got more of James people would have loved him. Fir example, Sirius- we won't have loved him so much if we had only known him from flashbacks and from other people, but we acutally see him interact with people.
I have always felt that Snape’s worst memories true meaning is not revealed until the Princes Tale. It’s his worst memory NOT because of James bullying him (because this happened on more than this occasion) but it’s Snape’s worst memory because it is in this moment he lost Lily. Every good person we encounter within the story speaks so highly of James even Kingsley speaks of James with warmth when commenting on how Lupin is right about how much Harry looks like him. No person is a saint, which is a common theme in HP but James was definitely a good person.
my thought with James potter has changed a lot as i've gotten older. I'd like to think his opportunity to grow was cut short. im 25 and i can honestly say im a lot different than at 21. he had just become a husband and father, i'd hope he'd grow. hes almost the dark side of Harry.
Glad someone is making a video about this! Why are people hating so much on him because he got Lily? You know what, Lily chose HIM, not Snape... He turned around and alot of people are supid at that age and he chose to mature. Snape NEVER matured. Also, I'd say he was someone who was raised and spoiled... when war came he decied to be better, that's my take on him. I'll NEVER forgive Snape for how cruel he was towards Neville and Hermoine (especially with her teeth). He was so mean, that he was Neville's boggart of all things. Also, also... how do people tend to forgive Draco Malfoy and not James Potter when they were so alike?
THANK YOU for this video OMG I am so tired of the fandom villainizing James and acting as if snape was this innocent dove just because he got that redemption arc (and certainly because of the character's romanticization in the movies)
imho the scenes from the pensieve are meant to include the biases and perspective of the original viewer, not 100% true recreations. Did James bully Severus? Probably. But he also dedicated basically his entire adult life to the order of phoenix straight out of high school (Basically a death sentence during that period of wizarding history)
I always thought of James and Sirius at Hogwarts as the Weasley twins but with a bit more bullying. James was an overall good person but he had his bad side.
Thank you for this clear perceptive of Snape before the deaths of the Potters. Even his role after Lilly's death was for his own selfish motivations. He is no more of a pivotal character than many others, it was only that his secrets were withheld from the reader until the end.
People think negatively of James because they think too positively of Snape, because of Alan Rickman’s portrayal. The Snape dickriding has to come to an end if honest discussion is going to occur.
Here's my take: As someone who was bullied relentlessly in school, I am not one to make excuses for it (though you could make the argument that it made me stronger). But the thing with James is...he, in his young and naive mind at the time, believed that his rightful hatred of the Dark Arts gave him license to harras anyone who had an interest in them. He thought he was "standing up for what's right". His heart and loyalty were in the right place, but thought he could take it upon himself to be the world's anti-Dark policeman or something haha. He had a lot of growing up to do, and he did. You can put Sirius in the same category. But for anyone still questioning whether or not James was a good man, remember this: He had a friend facing prejudice and bigotry, and became an Animagus to help him and be with him. Snape had a friend facing prejudice and bigotry, and he joined the bigots. VERY big difference there.
I'm sure you've been asked this a lot, but would you do a What if James Potter survived scenario? I'd love to see your interpretation of what would happen.
I love your videos and content so much. As an adult and insane PotterHead...you make me feel better about my knowledge and questions I ask about this literature. Please keep going and diving into the HP saga.
I think another reason James seems so much worse than he actually was is because we are made to sympathize with Snape. We are shown his relationship with Lily when they were children. And even though Harry believes Snape is evil, the readers see how he is helping Dumbledore and following his orders - which Harry doesn't get to witness.
I also think that Alan Rickman’s portrayal of Snape (he brought something to this character that’s not in the books) and Snape being toned down in the movies. And, I think people enmesh their love for Alan Rickman and the Snape character.
@@raianthony8492agreed he was so much of a worse character in the movies like he literally bullied hermione for her teeth in the books As an adult and her teacher
One do have to remember the wizard world was in a war. It was so bad that Hagrid himself even said that it was very dark times and that everybody was so scared that even after the war ended they still refuses to use the dark wizard's name. Wars changes people. James had to see allies and friends getting killed right in front of him. You have to remember that he just became a father for a year and he find out that the dark wizard was going to go after his son. The man who let nobody lives when he decided to kill them. James had to be protective of his family. This wasn't about himself. He was willingly to hide in order to protect his wife and son. Then when he came, he tried his best to protect them. You have to remember that he lost his parents young due to them being old when they had him. No doubt that he wishes that they were still around and that they could had met their grandson. You have to remember that for all of his flaws he was still friends with both a werewolf and someone who comes from a pure-blood extremist family background. He didn't judges Remus and Sirius which is why both are so loyal to him even after his death. James went through lot as a young adult so how can you say that he didn't changes? Also, some people don't get to burry the hacket but while it would been nice to do so, does that really mean that you changes or not? Some people will never get along no matter what. Also, even if he did, would Snape even accepts it? Would Snape even admit his own wrong doing in the feud? You can't put all the blame on James because Snape played a role in this too. Also, Snape became a death eater during their young adulthood so why on earth would James want to say "I'm sorry" to him?
Didn't know james needed to be defended. James was a great man who was just pompus when young. See i dont veiw james as anything close to draco his younger self seems to be comparable to the weasly twins minus the relationship with snape
@@snuffy357 I never saw it really stayed out of the online community because they whole heartily disagreed that snape was a bad guy who did good things
I think it was a deliberate choice on JK to make have the Potter’s lives end at such an early age. It deliberately doesn’t give us enough time to get a full picture of who James and Lily are as adults and their moral character. More people would have a fair assessment of them as people overtime and Harry wouldn’t be imagining the memory of them as a complete fantasy. James and Lily are almost a mythos and everyone glorifies them and the loss of them, which wouldn’t have happened the same way later in their lives. Also you can see the secret keeper mistake and betrayal play out way better with 21 y/o’s than older and wiser adults. No way fully developed brains would’ve done what the Potters did. I do think that for the movies, it was the right choice to age them up to look like mid/late 30s. It would not have translated well to have 11/15/17 year old Harry standing next to his 21/22 year old Parents who’d look more like his siblings overtime. It would’ve been too weird and distract from the story and character development of the other adults/Marauders. Both book and movies treated the Potters well for the context they needed to have i think
@@taylorhagen3916he did dislike it but is not due that why he continued the attack, is because he was mad lily rejected him in public, he was redirecting his shame imo,thats why he is mad when sirius tells him lily thinks he is big headed
@@jayla3282he hated blood purity and the dark arts from the start, it was more likely that than any embarrassment. Remember, his best friend was a werewolf and he immediately joined the war effort against Death Eaters two years later
@@dannymac939 lily just screamed in his face that he didnt have to make snape do anything and that james was just as bad, james asks whats her problem and sirius responds she prolly thinks he is airheaded then he gets mad and redirects the crowd's atention to snape, I am not saying james wasnt against blood purity but that moment it wasnt rlly about that imo
I have hated the character of James Potter since I first read his books in elementary school, the hatred towards him only increased once I went to middle school. In fact I found people who perfectly reflected the character of James, very loyal to their friends, nice to everyone, but who hate you for no reason. And then you ask yourself questions, am I the mistake? Did I happen to do something wrong? well the answer is no, I simply exist. I can say that now in high school I'm much better without those people around, but I can't deny that they left me with a lot of insecurities. I'm just saying that constantly annoying a person simply to have a laugh in a boring moment is not good behavior, and I know that Snape wasn't in his right mind, but I can say that I experienced what it feels like to be in the crosshairs of a James and it's not nice.
Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will shut up haters like you for good.
when harry was talking to Sirius and lupin, lupin says that James did hex students just walking down the hall for simply being in the hallway with him and only stopped doing so in 7th year. and when sirius defended James saying they where just teenagers, harry yells in exasperation that when the fight between Snape and James at on the grounds had happened harry and James would of been the same age. and I think he also said he would never of done something even to Malfoy.
We tend to forget that they were young when he died. We didn't getbthe chance to see him actually grow. And thats if he was a bully. Correct me if I'm wrong but Snape who was, for lack of a better term, his enemy/rival is the only one to say he was a bully, etc.
No, when Harry saw Snape's worst memory of what James did to him, he went to confront Lupin and Sirius about it. And they admitted to him that James was indeed a bully. But unlike Snape, James grew out of it.
Uhm I wouldn't say that, just because Snape's spells are dark and phisically dangerous, what James does is not as bad. James goes for emotional damage instead of physical, but he does so in a brutal way: he literally turns him upside down and strips him in front of their peers, making fun of him. That's a really horrible kind of violence, even if the scars it leaves aren't as evident. Honestly, a cut leaves less permanent damage.
Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will shut up haters like you for good.
This is a huge thing for me in the series. James wasn’t perfect by any means, but the important thing is that he grew up. This is the contrast with Snape. I know loving and defending Snape is popular, but the truth is he was a coward (at least in some regards). He didn’t have the courage to back off from the dark arts, and take the next step to try and make amends with Lilly, and that’s why he was “always” admiring her from the shadows. But James did. He changed. He recognized that the person he was at 15 wasn’t who he wanted to be, and he changed for Lilly. He grew up into the man that was brave enough to try and take on Voldemort wandless, and that makes all the difference!
That isnt cowardice, its him following his (wrong) convictions, he didnt listen to lily because he prefered power, he is loyal to himself, he only realized he was wrong when he realized it wasnt worth lily dying
I always viewed James bullying of Snape and his targeting of him as spurred in large part by his jealousy that Lily liked hanging out with Snape, but didn't like James. And James was likely used to getting what he wanted. I imagined that his behavior started to change after Sirius' "prank", as i can't imagine that he didn't wonder if played a role in fostering an environment that may have made Sirius think that was okay. Remus even says that after that incident (or maybe after Lily and James got together) that James' behavior did change and he stopped targeting Snape, only defending himself when Snape attacked first. I do think James started off as a spoiled, mean-spirited bully. But i do feel like that changed after his 5th year and he grew into a better person.
Snape is a bad person who did some good things (out of guilt/deal with Dumbledore, not even for selfless reasons). James was a good person who did some bad things (as a teenager).
I need a marauders show so badly, it makes so much sense to me aswell because they’d have a clear framework of plot points but complete creative freedom to do whatever they want
Anybody ever ask what Snapes fate would be without Dumbledore? Prison or death. Also if Dumbledore didn't give Griffindor last minute points Snape would just unjustly docked points like he does constantly. Snape bullies children that have nothing to do with his childhood trauma, at least James stopped his asshole ways b4 he passed.
I think James was certainly a bit of brat but I think he also grew out of it. His feud with Snape was definitely fueled with petty jealousy over Snape’s closeness with Lily but also his detest for the Dark Arts.
I think it was when Sirius ran away to the Potters’ that forced James to mature. Sirius would have been extremely traumatised and James would have wanted to help his friend. This would lead to Sirius talking to James about what happened to him at Grimmauld Place, showing James the extent of Sirius’ trauma and making him reflect on how to be a better friend and to tone down his pranks. He would have always been mischievous (which may have been inherited from either parent), but pranks would have taken a back burner at Hogwarts for their last 2 years, allowing Lilly to see this more sensitive side to James and eventually falling in love. McGonagall would have noticed this too and reported it to Dumbledore, thus making him headboy
“Never mistake youthful selfishness for genuine malice. Nobody isn’t kind of an asshole in their teens, and if they weren’t, they were probably sociopaths.” -Dracula
Thanks for the insights! Super (get it?) interesting as always. I actually disagree that Snape’s redemption arc is beautiful. James’s bullying was unacceptable but rooted in insecurity. He was a prince at home and not as special as he thought at school. So the parallel with Draco is dead on!!! However, James never struggled with the tough decisions : his friend was a ware wolf so the only logical decision is to become an animagus! his best friend is kicked off from home and he takes him in! fighting Voldemort? Of course he will. And I personally think that the rift between Lily and Snape and Sirius getting kicked out (which happens pretty much around the same time - end of 5th year) made him grow up. He realized just how lucky he was and that his actions had consequences. And he grew out of the insecurity that made him a bully and grew up. I would never EVER justify bullying. But James freed himself from the burden that made him a bully even if Snape was always going to be a trigger for him. Snape on the other hand stayed prisoner of his own resentment. And that is what made him the perfect triple agent : his was genuine in his hatred. But the difference is that James was a bully as a kid. While Snape was an adult and can’t hide behind youthful mistakes. He bullied Harry and Neville who had done NOTHING to him personally. So he became the bully that he accused James of being. And further, he hides behind James’ bullying as an excuse for his own. Totally agree that Snape can’t blame James for becoming a death eater. And the fact that he found acceptable that James and Harry die so that Lily can live is proof of that. So I totally agree with Sirius: James was far from perfect and probably would have made many more mistakes if he had lived longer. We all have our flaws and hurt people along the way even if we don’t want to. But at his core, James was and wanted to be a good person who would have had to live with the consequences of his mistakes. Sorry for the long comment but that is precisely the reason I love the Marauder’s Era so much: they are ALL perfectly flawed to the opposite of the golden trio who almost make the right choices all the time. Ron is the only one whose flaws are shown and even those mistakes were the result of the people around him who were so perfect and that he simply couldn’t live up to. Maybe a little bit like Snape who just chose a dark path to cope.
It's funny James is Slytherinlike in sone way but because he's brave at heart and values things that Godric did, just like Harry Maybe he even had a similar experience And his best friend, Sirius, was expected for Slytherin, but rejects their ideals I bet he got questioned by the hat too
Thank you. Thank you so much for FINALLY making this video. James has always been my personal favorite character, both from what little info we get in the books, but especially from how he's portrayed in the fandom, and the amount of hate he's gotten over the years is distressing. (Like, Sirius did worse to Snape-literally sets him up to die at the hands of Lupin, which, fun fact, would likely have gotten Lupin euthanized as well, and it's JAMES who saves him and Snape BOTH-but no one mentions that when bringing up Snape's time at school.) So, genuinely thank you 😊
Great video as always, fellas. Completely unrelated, I recently started noticing a very low hum in your videos. It's been present for a little while. Sounds like either an ungrounded cable or maybe just an air conditioner. I only really notice it when I have my subwoofer is on, but thought I'd say something as I only hear it in your videos and it goes away when you're not mic'd.
To guote my guy Sirius Black, “the world isn’t split between good people and Death Eaters.” Snape and James were both flawed people capable of both good and bad. Comparing the degrees of goodness or evil in their actions is arbitrary. Harry still loves them both enough to name his children after them.
In the books, Snape is on only one side, himself. He has no inclination to favor one side over the other including snitching out others of each group. In the movies, it seems as if they wanted to redeem Snape by showing him in a better light in the end. The fact was, he WAS a Death Eater! How and when he got his mark is the question? Was he a Death Eater before graduating? What did he have to do to get the mark? James was a prat when he was a kid, no doubt, but turned it around and grew up. Snape was everything he accused Harry of being, and just got worse.
@@villekuronen6242 As a person who was also bullied at school, I would like to say that bullies are not just bullies. They're complex people with complex emotions. Yes, what they do is wrong; believe me, I am *very much* aware of that fact. But that doesn't make them irredeemable. As an adult, James was a member of the original Order of the Phoenix, which is no small feat considering how scared everyone in the Wizarding community was of Lord Voldemort and his Death Eaters. He did the right thing because it was the right thing. On the other hand, Severus Snape was already enamored with the Dark Arts, believed in "pureblood supremacy", and aspired to become a Death Eater *as a teenager at school.* He only became a double agent for Dumbledore when his actions led to the death of the object of his obsessive quote-unquote "love". He never left the "Death Eater mentality"; the only reason he fought against Voldemort was because he hated him for killing Lilly. *Also also, actually actually,* Snape straight up bullied children at school *as a 30 year old man,* to the point where students were terrified of him! GROW UP!
did you even read the books? Did you even watch this video? JAMES ONLY BULLIED SNAPE BECAUSE SNAPE WAS A WANNABE DEATH EATER SINCE THE AGE OF 11, JAMES WASN'T BULLYING A HARMLESS CHILD, HE WAS TEACHING A FUTURE DEATH EATER A LESSON@@villekuronen6242
If Snape was just rude and mean to Harry I might buy that it's because of James and old wounds run deep. But he isn't. He is mean to almost all the children and downright cruel to Longbottom. And whatever you might say about how James was to Snape, the Longbottoms were not mean or cruel to him. Plus he called Lily Mudblood. I don't care how he *SAID* he felt about her I don't know many racists who love someone of the race they hate and call them the same racist term. He might have loved her but she didn't love him.
His hatred of Neville is easy to parse. Neville had the utter gall to not be the one Voldemort picked. Therefore he's as guilty as everyone else (except Severus himself) in Snape's mind. Despite the fact that Snape was the one who set Voldy off on that path to begin with. He knew what his boss was like. And he told the man obsessed with living forever (something we know he told his followers) that a baby would be a threat to him. There was no other course Tom was going to take upon receiving that info.
To be fair being a teacher was more something forced upon him, by Dumbledore. Not everybody has the right temperament and Snape comes off as more of an introverted type who would have been happier locking himself away in a lab and studying magic and potions.
9:09 actually we do… I’m talking about All The young Dudes if you couldn’t tell. It’s basically so canon at this point that I made my own paper & hard back cover of the masterpiece.
I've always thought James was closer to cormack mcclaggen. A generally good person but just an arrogant and smug git. Draco's arrogance is family notoriety and racism. Mcclaggen and James both fall for muggleborns, and so blood status means nothing, but their arrogance comes from just an overly large ego and jock pride.
@aetherius6221 we see very little of James behaviour except what's directed at Snape and I think if we saw more of him we probably would see someone closer to cormack.
@@felicityanne979 we never saw Cormack having fierce loyalty to friends, lack of pureblood pride, accepting nature and outstanding bravery, all things we saw James have
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Its always appreciated the hardwork and dedication you guys put into thesw😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
They always make my day when they come out. SCB are my longest watched channel and I really admire the consistent quality of all their work 😊
i can leave and come back to this channel and it'll always be up to standard
All of these are true I love Wednesdays and Fridays because they post 💚
yeah, but constantly creating content surrounding a somewhat problematic piece of media with an extremely problematic author is not it
@@shalice7784 Though, they have sworn off saying JK's name, released merch to send money to trans organizations, and are otherwise allies who absolutely oppose bigotry. The story is just important to them as a piece of fiction
Thank you. If Remus is to be believed, then Snape and James were as bad as each other. A difference between them is James changed his bullying ways in his youth, enough that Lily forgave him for his former arrogance and fell for him in their final year at Hogwarts, while Snape continued to bully and belittle people up until just before he died - and not just bullying James or those connected to him, but completely unrelated CHILDREN such as Neville and Hermione.
I always liked/respected Snape even back in the 1st Book. Yes, he goes a little too far with Neville. But he actually does care about the students in general and merely holds them to high standards. Yes there are harsh moments with Hermione, but most of the time he respects her since she can meet his High Standards.
As for Neville, I always feel Snape's methods are bad but his intentions are to push him to be better.
this is crazy james was an arsehole you don’t need to invent a defence so we can fit everyone into a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ box, james was a spoiled kid who was never told no, sure he grew up but a lot of school bullies do, doesn’t mean they were always good
did you even read the books? Did you even watch this video? JAMES ONLY BULLIED SNAPE BECAUSE SNAPE WAS A WANNABE DEATH EATER SINCE THE AGE OF 11, JAMES WASN'T BULLYING A HARMLESS CHILD, HE WAS TEACHING A FUTURE DEATH EATER A LESSON @@blueberrycranberrycherry
@@morrigankasa570 Intentions or not Snape is still a Neville's worst fear, that is beyond a little too far. No teacher should ever be a child's worst fear, but especially not a child who has some serious trauma. Also not in the movie but is in the books, I don't think Snape respects hermione at all because in their fourth(?) year when Hermione's teeth grew he said he saw no difference
@@kassidicatanag1379 To be fair, Neville at that point was essentially afraid of everything anyway. Due to lack of confidence, even before dealing with Snape in 1st Year. So to me with that context it doesn't make Snape any worse. Sure, if it had been someone like Harry or Hermione that was terrified of Snape then that would be troubling.
As for that 4th Year Hermione thing, I think he said that not to be cruel or anything but because Him and Dumbledore where seeing the signs of Voldy's return. They knew if it happened then Snape needed to keep his cover to successfully be able to pass amongst the Death Eaters. Since Malfoy was there and caused that he especially needed to be careful.
But in general I think he respected Hermione. Sure some of his comments towards her and others are harsh. But I still think his intentions are ok.
For me, i always imagined the situation being something like these:
- We know voldemort was already in the open by the time james and the rest came to hogwarts, they were in school at wartime or at very least, a realy tense "calm before the storm" situation.
- From what we know from Snape's memories, and the fact that all of the marauders joined the order immediately after graduation, i think we can assume that "camps" of support for both voldemort and the order/ministry were starting to form while they were at school, with james in one and snape in the other.
- snape and james personal animosity towards each other was likely only exaggerated by them being in the same year and wanting the same girl.
- i also think there is a place to assume that both james and sirius being "blood-traitors"
Put them on the map for snape's friends, but with sirius for most of his years at hogwarts still a "official" part of the black family and therefore relatively untouchable,
left james as the primary source of harrasment for the "voldy-youth".
A Snape/Mauraders series would be elite. From the last year/s of school to the: Death of James Lilly, Peter and Siruis fight, Lupins struggle in society and Snapes change of Loyalty. Would be an insane story arc.
Could even have a Regulas/Sirius conflict or even with Lily and Petunia
For me it boils down to the decisions they made as adults. Granted James had less time to "go bad" as an adult considering his death at 21 years old...but Snape strait up bully's children as an adult, and not just Harry(for the sins of the father) but also Hermoine and Nevile. Which is why for years I have said that "Snape is a hero but he is not a good guy". Great video!!! Thought provoking and a worthwhile discussion. Thanks SCB Team!
James didn't live long enough to become a bully like Snape. Had Snape married Lily, James would have been just as bitter. And James would have bullied Slytherin students.
James - who had an ego the size of a lake but a heart to match it 😭😭😭
Dude's heart is the only thing bigger than his ego.
That sounds like Naruto before his character development.
JUST LOVERS 😭😭
@@ryleemorrow6811JUST LOVERS
@@phallax_pffft my bad. I’ve read so many that they start to blur together
I think that comparing James and Sirius was really smart because they were very similar in youth, but because we see what Sirius becomes no one see's him as a bully unlike James😁
And it isn't like Sirius is perfect. We do see bits of the faults he always had and James was rather similar to him. Harry ultimately doesn't see Sirius as a responsible trustworthy adult because he never unwraps the mirror. Sirius just isn't serious enough, his personal development got stuck while he was in prison, and if James ever got to grow up more than Sirius did is unknown.
I stand by the idea that Snape's first year curses was more about profanity because how could he possibly learn that living with his dad? Snape definitely gave as good as he got, sure, but that line from Remus seems a bit dishonest to me. He's trying to make a connection with Harry, who also dislikes Snape.
There is hyperbole on both sides and the truth is clearly in the middle somewhere.
First I like your line Sirius isn't serious enough.
Second we all can take sides but at the end we don't know the complete story.
@@sofiadragon6520 how would it be more about profanity haha. yeah his dad was a muggle but his mother was a pureblood Slytherin. She probably gave him books/tutored him, he was already doing magic before he even turned 11.
I genuinely love James Potter. He is the definition of an idiot kid that had a heart of gold and was able to get over it and grow into a great man. I wish we saw more moments of James within memories of Sirius or Remus or something to be able to see his better and softer moments rather than an old school rivalry. I always thought that if Voldemort decided to go for the Longbottoms, Snape would have remained a loyal death eater.
He absolutely would have and that's one thing that solidifies him as a villain in my eyes. He was never even truly on the good side, everything that he did that can even remotely be perceived as 'doing the right thing' being on Dumbles' orders
@@TheKabuto90 exactlyyy ! that’s part of the reason why i was never able to like snape. that and the way he treated kids, the fact that he was neville’s worst fear when neville has also been through some things (bellatrix, rodolphus, rabastan, and barty crouch jr torturing his parents to insanity) and his worst fear was his teacher??
For me Snape’s entire two drives for every choice he makes is to either be with (read as possess) Lily or to get revenge on Voldemort for taking Lily away from him. Those two reasons explain everything he does and are in line with his past of being a death eater that clearly would have had very low moral standards (if bullying 11 year olds wasn’t already an indicator of that).
Agreed. Snape only ran to Dumbledore & switched sides bc Voldemort decided to go after the Potter’s, and he only cared specifically bc of Lilly. If Voldemort had decided to go after the Longbottoms, I 100% believe that Snape would have never flipped to the good side. And he only protected Harry, and followed Dumbledore’s orders, bc Harry was Lily’s son and Voldemort killed Lily. He didn’t see Harry for Harry, nor as an innocent child who needed protecting from a dark wizard, bc it’s the right thing to do. Snape also didn’t care about the fate of the wizarding world or muggles, he cared about avenging Lily. Snape did a good thing for a selfish reason.
@@raianthony8492 also Snape initially asked Voldemort to spare Lily and just kill Harry/James.
Heres the thing. James' biggest detractor is Severus Snape. A jealous bitter, hateful enemy of James. And James still saved his life. And here's what we know about memories, they can be altered based on the way the person feels. Slughorn legit had false memories about the horcurxes, and Harry had to get the real one. Who is to say Snapes memories arent effected by his own feelings. He hated James and "loved" Lily. Remember Dumbledore was disgusted by him. Very uncharacteristically of him regarding others.
Even if they aren’t distorted memories this particular instance is one of the only ones that Snape chooses to remove from his mind so harry doesn’t accident see it. Meaning it’s probably the worst most embarrassing one for Snape meaning it’s the one James would come off looking the worst in.
@@conormurphy4328 Snape didn't remove it because of how it showed James. He removed it because, if Harry had stayed, it would have showed Harry the breakup moment between Severus and Lilly. In the book, Snape came in while the memory was still going and took Harry out of the Pensive. The chapter was titled "Snape's Worst Memory" if I recall correctly, and that was due not to what happened to him via James, but his "Mudblood" comment and what came afterward.
It's possible... But Slughorn didn't have a false memory. When Dumbledore asked for the memory, Slughorn changed it to put himself in a better light.
@birdbrain833 changing the history is falsifying it any way you slice it.
@@littlefoot5013how do you know that it solely referred to his breakup with Lily? Surely being humiliated by the person you hate most in the world is just as bad as losing a friendship with your best friend. Especially as they happened at the same time. And if it was about Lily then why did Snape include the events from the exam onwards and not just the sections that included Lily? It’s obviously referring to the whole memory.
I feel like people always see Snape as this bullied loner kid, but he had friends! By his own admittance he had friends other than Lily, ones who also became Death Eaters. To me, it is clear that Snape and James had a mutual rivalry that mimicked the greater war going on and that it was more than just the two of them going after each other, their friend groups were also in on it. Also, because of his early childhood, Snape hated muggles and treated Lily's sister with condescension and disgust.
Exactly, with friends like that he was clearly led astray. Snape was smart and talented. He should have been put in ravenclaw and the whole story would have been different.
@@kellysouter4381 I actually disagree with you there. I don't think Slytherin was the problem, he had that disdain and hatred instilled in him before he ever came to Hogwarts. Not for Muggleborns necessarily but for Muggles definitely. Also, yes he was smart but to what end? He was ambitious which is why he was put in Slytherin to begin with. He didn't learn for the sake of knowledge. He learned for the sake of power and ambition. "Bottle fame, brew glory, and even put a stopper on death"; sounds a lot more like a Slytherin than a Ravenclaw. In a different timeline where he was never forced to work under Dumbledore's thumb or if there was never a war, Snape could have been a much more subtle dark lord of his own.
@@janealroberts7585 There is probably a fun theory in there - What WOULD Snape had done with his life if he graduated from Hogwarts and Voldemort hadn't risen to power? Professional Potion Maker running an Anti-Muggle Newsletter on the side?
Petunia was classist to his birthplace and clothes, overall disrespectful to him which would only confirm snape bias, not saying that amkes it alright of him but it does mean he is misguided at this point.
Also yes, snaoe is not a loner, not by 5 year "I dont like the people you been hanging out with" which lily says, that sounds like a recent thing, not like they have been friends for years, also james attacking other slytherins and targeting proto death eaters is not canon, is pure fanon, is born out of desire to make james actions seem rigthtious and whitewash him
Like we’re all just assuming that the 10 min we saw in his memory is the first time he called Lily a mudblood but he was probably saying it behind her back long before and if he wasn’t his friends were….maybe he deserved it. Maybe James targeted him /because/ he was a creep who called his crush slurs…..is that the best way to handle it especially when Lily specifically asked him not to, no, but it’s not like he’s just an asshole popular bully just because Snape sees him that way. No one got mad at Ron and called him a bully for trying to curse Draco
I will never forgive Snape ripping one of the only pictures of James, Lily and Harry just to pretend Lily was smiling at him
Yeah, that was disgusting.
Or for how he treated students like Neville and Hermione for so long. He may have done good things but he wasn’t a good person
@@theearmuffs1046 exactly!
@@theearmuffs1046yeah, he is not a good guy. People need to remember that
It reminds me of the scene in Naruto where Obito tries to kiss a photo of Rin and Kakashi catches him.
4:17 this is one of the many reasons why we need a marauders series. It would give us so much more understanding of their actual dynamic.
Also, this whole video is the exact argument that I use when people say that James Potter was not a good guy. It’s always in relation to how he treated Snape and always people who haven’t read the books because they don’t understand the actual character growth
I never understood people who say that James is a horrible bully and Snape is an innocent victim. They all seem to forget that Snape despised muggle borns, called Lily a mudblood, was a death eater (at the time he was still at school!!) and sorrounded himself with people who then became murderers. If I knew a person like that, I at least wouldn't consider him as a poor guy who was mistreated.
People also tend to forget that James, Sirius, Snape went to school during the first wizarding war. People were disappearing, Voldemort was terrorizing the wizarding world and Snape was pretty open about his fascination with dark arts and his desire to join the death eaters. It's like saying that you like Ben Laden while going to an american schools after 9/11. You would certainly get bullied for being a terrorist sympathizer and Voldemort literally was a wizard terrorist
so what you are saying is James hated Snape for his believes? im not defending Snape here but James was bully
@@robertking4645 yes, this is a spot on analogy!
@villekuronen6242 so, what you're saying here is, Snape hated all muggleborn because of their lack of blood purity? I'm not defending James here, but Snape was a bully.......
You see how easy it is to be narrow about these things? Just because James and Snape didn't get along, and BOTH of them tried to aggravate each other as often as possible does not make either of them a bully
Basically every other account we have of James, aside from the one memory from Snape, had nothing to do with him doing anything to anyone else.
@@captainspaulding5963 and how many non bias sources we have about James?
It’s never actually stated, but I wonder if Dumbledore told Lily and James the real reason why Voldemort was after them. Did he just use the the fact that they thwarted Voldemort 3 times and were targeted because of that. Or did he tell them the truth that their son had the potential to be the one to put an end to Voldemort?
Actually a very good question!
I guess they knew some pieces about it, like the other members of the Order of the Phoenix, but not the exact complete wording
It’s so weird that people want to hold James accountable for his actions at 15 yrs old (or being generous 11-15 yrs old) but don’t want to hold Snape accountable for becoming a Death Eater and then bullying students as an adult.
James cleaned up his act by his 6th school year, so much so that he became Head Boy without even being a prefect first. That means that by at least 16 or so, he grew out of this.
Snape NEVER grew out of his love for the dark arts. He never grew out of wizard supremacist ideology. He was just salty with Voldemort for killing Lily.
I actually liked/respected Snape even back in the 1st Book.
Sure his methods are a bit harsh/excessive at times, yet I mainly think he's just holding them to a High Standard and his methods are to push the students to be their best. He also genuinely did change his views of "Wizard Supremacy" and simply kept up the act with the Death Eaters to keep his cover.
Finally, even Dumbledore had views of "Wizard Supremacy" until his sister died.
Also, Dumbledore absolutely trusted Snape and respected him.
Additionally, you have to consider Snape's upbringing/childhood. His family was troubled to a large extent which warped his personality/views and so of course he would be tempted by power because he was powerless at home.
Exactly my thoughts, I can't imagine how he treated children that Neville's worst fear was Snape. Also I don't even hesitate to think that Snape would have stuch with Voldy if only he had gone for the Longbottoms.
Completely agree with you here
@@srivastava6400 100%
I think it’s fairly obvious from the text that Snape would have stayed with Voldemort if Voldemort had kept his word and hadn’t murdered Lily. Because he literally asked Voldemort to kill James and Harry but leave Lily, that’s what he wanted anyway.
I'd go as far as to say that James bullying Snape was a good thing because Snape was an aspiring death eater even at the age of 11. Unpopular opinion, James was doing a good deed by putting Snivellus in his place.
The fact that so many people in the HP community support a wizard N@zi over a kid who was a bit of a bully as a 15 year old is in my opinion one of the darkest aspects of the entire community. I dont care what Snape does to redeem himself the fact that he sold out a little baby to get murdered will forever make him just as evil as any other character to me. Think about how Snape continually bullies Neville for his entire life just because he wishes Voldemort would have chosen to kill him over Lillys son. That whole thing just makes me sick tbh.
maybe because it feels personal, many of us were bullied but not many know any neon@zis.
Had that baby been Neville he wouldn't have cared also and the fact he bullied Neville all through school knowing this is extra vile
people actually have the cheek to despise a hero James Potter, and worship a villain Snape
I think those people are the ones who haven’t read the books. I only watched the movies and from all these videos I have learned that Snape was much worse in the books than we see in the moves. For all of these missed details I have started to read the books.
both are bad, and the author is bad as well
Have you ever considered making a video about how wizards would cope in the modern world? Like how would the statute of secrecy hold up with almost all muggles having access to mobile phones to record everything they see and drones, satellites, internet and modern weapons? How could wizards erase a video that has been posted online? They can't obliviate the entire world. I think it would be quite interesting to dive into.
Well technology seems to not work around magic so it could just be so easy as that anything recording hogwarts or whtv would be disturbed and unusuable footage
@@feliciastaldotter5168 Which would be a problem of its own, because then rumors would pop up of a special place where technology doesn't work or goes on the fritz without apparent cause or scientific explanation, think the Bermuda Triangle times a thousand since this would be something that could be immediately documented and observed by just going over to where Hogwarts is supposed to be.
In summary, it's the Streisand Effect.
@@Jinzulen Exactly this. Diagon Alley is smack dab in the middle of London. One of the most surveilled cities on Earth. A constantly growing beheamoth of tech. Eventually, someone is going to build something sensitive too close to magic and it will be noticed. Satellite imagery of the planet will show areas that muggles are unable to approach on foot which will result in massive efforts to uncover these strange phenomena.
Basically, with the surge in access to technology of the 21st century, HP takes place in the last moment in time where the magical world as explained in the books could possibly exist. Sooner or later, either magicals will start getting repeatedly caught on camera. Or the muggles will stumble across magic, be confused about what's going on and pump billions of dollars into R&D to figure out what's going on and how to circumvent it.
And the only thing that the magicals could do is forcible take over high levels positions to delay it. And even then you'll get private interest groups doing it without government approval for the clout or profit potential.
@@tyrannicpuppy Except the British government can steer development away from Diagon Alley so as to help protect it. just a few zoning laws that prohibit anything being built that might interfere with the Magic, and a few spells from the MoM to hide it from satellite imagery.
I've thought for a while that it would be interesting to see a modern kid in Hogwarts. The difference between the 90s and today come down to one thing: Smart Phones.
Imagine muggle-born wizards' reaction to not even being able to have their smart phones.
"Look through a library of books to find an obscure spell? No thanks, I'll just google it."
"A mirror that lets me talk to a friend who has the other half? Cute. I can put my entire family and all my friends on a Zoom meeting."
"Moving pictures? Yeah, I'll record a short video and turn it into a gif."
(The "talking to the pictures" part will probably be less impressive in about 10-20 years with the advancements in AI being made.)
"A letter from your mum by owl. Neat. My mum emailed me last night. Enjoy the owl dung traces on your food."
The phones might not work due to muggle tech not working on Hogwarts grounds, but you know there are some muggle-born kids who will reconsider going, never mind their parents who will be shocked at the very idea of not being able to even call their kids for 9 months out of the year.
Throughout the series, especially the later books/movies, we get a skewed view of James and Snape. Yes, James did plenty of wrong in his younger days, but I don't think he's as bad as others make him out to be.
Snape on the other hand, I feel gets more love and respect than he deserves. If Voldemort went after Neville instead, I don't think Snape would have the redemption ark we saw.
That is also the reason why Snape hates and torments Neville so much. If Voldemort had chosen to go after Neville rather than Harry, Lily would still be alive.
Well said
Ok, ok. OK. The "always" after the "he turns to dark magic" got me good 🤣🤣
We don’t necessarily know if James was actually a bully in Hogwarts. We know he and Snape had a mutual hatred for each other that resulted in them constantly getting into conflicts. However the one time we actually see it is Snape’s “worst memory” which obviously would put James in a bad light. Perhaps compared to Harry and Draco’s rivalry but only seeing when harry used Sectumsempra on Draco and none of the other context.
We have a quote from Sirius about James “hexing people just for the fun of it” but we also have a quote from Lupin about Levicorpus and how “you couldn’t move for being hoisted into the air by your ankle” which makes me think that apart from his rivalry with Snape it was more him showing off his ego than actually bullying other kids. Which is still a negative trait but I feel labelling him a bully is more from Snape’s bias.
How in the world do we even begin to get to that conclusion? We have concrete evidence of James being an asshole. Harassing Lily constantly, threatening her friend because of an obsessive romantic attraction as if she was a prize, Harry sifting through old records of served detentions in The Half Blood Prince and the vast amount of bullying/ harassment form the marauders. The fact that James himself says ‘it’s more the fact that he exists’ when Lily asks him what’s Severus ever done to him.
also in the memory he does more than lift by the ankle he makes a comment about striping snape before the cut away. james was a bully but with snape its more of a torture. why do you think snape invented spells. it was more of a defensive behavior. honestly idk about if james got any better behaved after 6 year because idk if he did a year 7 but james was a horrible person and i dont understand why lily ever dated him because he was still actively targeting snape at the time
We do know he was a bully, though. He asks Sirius and Lupin about the time James lifted Snape into the air and they pretty much confirm that's exactly how it went down. And Lupin continuously, throughout OOTP talks about how Dumbledore made him a prefect to perhaps knock some sense into James, Peter, and Sirius, but he was never able to because as a werewolf he didn't wanna do anything that would endanger the few friendships he had
Well and even then, everyone was doing it, it was more like a popular practical joke, much more Fred-and-George-esque. And though he obviously had an ego, I think it’s a much more surface level one than a deep ego, seeing as the ones he befriends are outcasts and he befriends them not in an “I’m better than you” way, but really genuinely
@@erikamohrmann7986 no I actually don’t think everyone was issuing the charm to take off and show the genitalia of their peers. Even if it was commonly done that doesn’t make it right. And I respectfully disagree. The Marauders were not outcast. Lupin goes on record saying Sirius and James were the ‘cool’ kids, if they were outcasts they wouldn’t have had a courtyard fulls audience. Sirius says that Severus made himself an easy target because he was an ‘oddball’.
James and Snape interestingly switch positions in relation to Lily. Snape starts off as her childhood friend, but she eventually cuts him out of her life. James is initially a bully, but gradually becomes a better person, and they later end up married.
Thank you for this! It always made me so sad to think that James was such an awful person, but keeping in mind that (a) he was a teenager, (b) book Snape was really horrible to all the students, and (c) memories can be altered. It makes me think of Dumbledore actually. He was bf/bff with one of the darkest wizards of all time and may have been the one to kill his sister. If we had redemption arcs for Sirius, Dumbledore, Draco, and (arguably, in my opinion) Snape, then there certainly was one for James.
Whatever you think of James, it's still insane to me that Harry called his son Severus. The Slimeball!
Harry has three children: James Sirius, Albus Severus, and Lily Luna.
@@paulyb7267 Never said he didn't...
Truth. Even if I did eventually forgive the Teacher who relentlessly bullied me as a child, I wouldn't name a kid after them.
ᑲᥙ𝗍 ძ᥆ᥱsᥒ'𝗍 ᥴᥲrᥱ 𝗍᥆ ᥒᥲmᥱ ᥲ𝖿𝗍ᥱr ⍴r᥆𝖿ᥱss᥆r mᥴg᥆ᥒᥲgᥲᥣᥣ
EXACTLY! Snape wasn’t evil and did protect Harry sure but he DEFINITELY was not a “good person at heart”
I actually like James, you wouldn’t want to be held to your childhood self so James shouldn’t be either plus he ended up growing up
You shouldn't, but let's be honest can you think of many or even anyone who has done a full 180 from how they were in school. Especially someone who is hanging out with the same groups.
Unlike Snape, who was bullying children as their TEACHER.
True, but it doesn’t excuse what he did in his teenage years. James was a bully who never made amends.
@@IdentityDM how do you expect him to make amends with Snape when they joined opposing armies right out of school? Snape would have killed him on sight.
Edit: this isn’t to excuse the supposed bullying (though I’m of the opinion that it was likely mutual). Just pointing out that he literally _couldn’t_ make amends.
@@IdentityDM why would he make amends? snape had joined the death eaters. it’s not like snape reached out to make amends to james for the things he did to him, considering it is stated many times that the behavior james exhibited towards snape was 100% mutual.
I think that he was mostly to nearly entirely good; however he kind of takes a go at Snape on first sight on the train. It parallels Draco’s first opinion of Ron based (nearly) entirely on appearance with a background helping of bias from Lucius.
Another feather in James; hat is that even when Lily married James, Snape obviously still had feelings for her that I doubt he did that well concealing, and James just let it be. No jealousy or malice over his former rival, no verbal put downs or even the slightest hint of distaste in sight. It's very likely he would have known about Snape from Lily, and guessed he had feeling for her, but you never hear it brought up, even with his closest friends. That shows that he not only cared enough to respect his wife's former friend, but that he is FAR removed from the taunting boy from Snape's memory by then. Frankly, I can't see anyone else handling his former rival still being in love with his wife that well.
And Snape doesn't get anywhere NEAR as much reproach for not only being in love with a happily married woman. Even when he tries to "save her" he doesn't take Lily's wishes into account AT ALL. Like what did he think would have happened? That she will be thrilled to be alive at the expense of her husband and one year old son? The fact that she was willing to sacrifice herself for her son shows just how little Snape actually bothered to know what was important to her. If he was a true friend who actually cared about her, he would have the decency to be kind or at the very least polite to her only living son in her memory. He's just so stuck on what might-have-been with Lily that I doubt he would have cared how she felt in the present, she just didn't live long enough for it to progress to the creepy twisted obsession it could have been.
One thing I have always wondered is what kind of dark things did snape do for old no nose for him to be willing to spare lilly
I always have had an issue using Snape’s memories as difinitive evidence of what went down. We know for a fact that memory’s can be changed, Slughorn’s was, and Snape always saw himself as the victim of the situation. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that his memory (from over 15 years before) wasn’t entirely accurate. Snape was part of a friend group of future death eaters, he wasn’t a bullied victim, it was a two way street.
And it's pretty obvious that Snape wanted Harry to see those memories. So just like Slughorn, he could've altered those memories specifically for Harry. To damage his view of his father since Snape was probably incredibly annoyed at how Harry idolized James
i'd also make argument that Sirius and Lupin are really bias sources about that beef between Snape and James
@@villekuronen6242Lily however isn't biased though. She didn't like James and hated him for his arrogance and bullying of Snape. If she fell in love with him during their sixth year, that means James actually changed for the better and became worthy of her. Lily's decency is never at all questioned by anyone in the series.
@@robertking4645she did laugh when it happened, but then again that might be Snape’s perception of the events
@@robertking4645I am pretty sure, that at least in the book, he specifically removed the memory, putting it in the pensive, so that harry *wouldn‘t* stumble upon it in legimency training. He got called away by someone else and harry snooped. So I wouldn‘t exactly call that „wanting harry to see it“
Snape didn't get redeemed, we just understood his motives. In order to be redeemed, he'd have to admit he was ever wrong about ANYTHING. And he never did, even when he changed sides. Well, ok, he admitted he was wrong about telling Voldermort the Prophecy, but because of WHO it effected, not the effect itself. He still firmly believed in Voldermort's views, he just hated Voldermort himself for targeting Lilly.
I disagree, Snape redeemed himself at the end. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THEN WORDS!!!
Sure his methods of teaching were Harsh, but I genuinely think his reasons was to push the students to be their best. He was completely loyal to Dumbledore and even though he wouldn't admit it/realize it I think he actually cared about Harry in the end. Sure he claims it was just for the sake of Lily, but if you look at his Memories he gave Harry at the end. He could've just gave him the bare minimum to complete the Task set forth by Dumbledore. Yet, he chose to include various others purely about Lily & Himself unrelated to that task. I think he did so to provide comfort and so Harry would hopefully better understand what type of person he was. He probably knew that Harry thought he was purely evil/villainous like Voldemort, yet he didn't want Harry to think that and remember him as such.
All that to me indicates a level of care/respect towards Harry that he couldn't show until the end.
@@morrigankasa570”If you don’t do this right, your pet will die” is not “pushing the students to do their best.”
@@professorbutters I disagree, it's basically a version of Carrot & A Stick.
@@morrigankasa570 his actions were being unnecessarily cruel towards 3/4 of his students to the point of becoming AT LEAST ONE'S worst fear.
@@morrigankasa570 I would actually call that one child abuse and animal crulety. and If he just wanted Neville to get it right why wasn't he sadisfied when Hermione helped him? Isn't it part of school that pupils help each other?
I think it's important to remember how young all these characters were. James and Snape were kids during their rivalry, and James dies extremely young (I imagine most people watching this video are older than he was then). Even Snape, nasty as he often is, was barely past 30 when he first met Harry, and dies before 40. Old enough to know better, but hardly a wizened old man.
Age doesn’t always make you wise. Look at Voldy. Snape didn’t show any real positive changes before he died. It’s unlikely he would have become a better person if he’d lived.
@@NsTheNamelol, he was working undercover against literally the devil at his own peril. We will never know if he was going to positively change because he doesn't get the chance, a bit of confirmation bias..
And James Potter was an as*hole 😂
The problem is we also don't get other perspectives. We hear Snape was nasty, it was probably a two way street but Snape frames himself as a victim.
I think the problem with James Potter is mainly in the movies. A lot is left out and you only really see Snape's point of view. The books gives us more details on the nature of James and Snape's relationship. The books showsthat yea James may not have been the greatest person in the world, but Snape also wasn't that great of a person and might have deserved a little bit of what he got. I like to think it was Lily that made a difference. James got to know Lily and learned from her how she didn't like the way he was so he improved himself over time. Similarly, Lily express similar concerns with Snape about the way he was acting, but he never really thought he was doing anything harmful, so he never changed. I know a lot of people compare James and Snape with Harry and Draco. That in the end Harry and Draco were better version of James and Snape had been.
The fact that this video has to be made is insane. Even if James was a bad kid in what is essentially middle/highschool (which, the only one who claims that is Snape so I’ve always taken that with a grain of salt) I’ve always seen James as a testament to the fact that people change. He became a good people as he became an adult.
He was a full on bully that’s more than just a bad kid.
I think it's more like Sirius told Harry, "The world isn't split into good people and death eaters. We've all got light and dark in us. " No one person is completely bad or good, and the James vs. Snape discussion proves this. Was James a good friend? Yes, absolutely. Was he cruel?Again, the record shows he was also capable of great cruelty. Does this make him a bad person? Not necessarily. We, the reader, are not given a full accounting and are not in a position to make that determination. The best we could say is that James Potter was a complicated person who was deeply loved by those who knew him.
On the flip side of the coin, we have Snape. Cold, calculating, deliberately cruel? Again, the answer would have to be yes. But most shocking of all is the depth to which he is capable of loving, the lengths he is willing to go to in order to protect the people he cares for (even if they are unaware), the strength of his loyalty once given, here is a man who keeps his word no matter the cost, one who will turn a deaf ear to what others say about him as he's done all his life in order to play a part given to keep another safe, he puts his life at risk day after day for years all in the name of protecting someone who will never know that's what he's doing all the while having to keep up the appearance that Snape hates him, when asked by his oldest friend to be the to step up and kill him to save a young boys soul and keep his cover intact he does so even though it means bearing the burden of everyones hatred, and at the end he gives his life whilst continuing to keep to the plan set in motion years before. After all this is Snape, a good man? The question is more complicated than good or bad. Sanpe's character and life are extremely complex. I would maybe say he was a man with a good heart that bad things happened to who lost his way, but found it before it was too late.
I may note Snape never knew he was goin to die and planned on resume being the world’s worst teacher once Voldemort was defeated.
That Malfoy comparison segment was hilarious!! 😂 “Draco’s actually popular! Mhmmm!!!”
Sirius running away and going to live with James, and his parents just adopting Sirius-awww
12:47 In my opinion, emotional wounds take much longer to heal than most physical wounds. Some never recover from them. Honestly, I feel like leaving someone with those emotional scars are much worse than leaving someone with physical scars
Amazing video. I agree with your points. I like James Potter. Of course he was spoilt by his family. But he helped his friends and family a lot. Him and Snape just had a personal feud. Feud between Harry and Malfoy may be a strong parallel to the feud between James and Snape. I also do think that James was Malfoy of his time.
That last point you made is quite excellent.
Snape's childhood has a lot of similarities to Harry's, both had abusive/neglectful guardians/parents. Both were Half-Bloods.
Both found acceptance/friendship at Hogwarts (also Tom Riddle/Voldy had harsh childhood, Half-Blood, and acceptance at Hogwarts).
James and Malfoy on the other hand both were spoiled, both had wealthy parents, both thought they were "all that", both were Pure-Bloods. Both thought they could get away with anything.
Both ended up redeeming themselves by the end.
@@morrigankasa570Only Malfoy’s family were Death Eaters. The Potters fall into the same category as the Weasleys: pure bloods, but so pro-Muggle that they’re left off the Sacred Twenty Eight (proper pure blood families).
@@professorbutters True, yet they still spoiled their son. Yes, to be fair they didn't have any other children & struggled to have a child in general. But it doesn't justify spoiling them.
One other thing to take in account, the spell that keeps getting shown as James being a bully (Hanging Snake upside-down) was actually a spell Snape created! Snape had to have used it first for James to learn it.
A non-verbal spell too. Meaning learning it would most likely have taken several examples.
Snape didn't invent it. We know because Lupin said it was "in fashion", so it must have been a generic spell.
@@drvoid7Snape himself said he invented it in Half-Blood Prince. Harry had tried to use Sectumsempra on Snape and, after immobilizing Harry, Snape said “You dare use my own spells against me, Potter? It was I who invented them - I, the Half-Blood Prince! And you'd turn my inventions on me, like your filthy father, would you?"
The only major spell James Potter is shown to use on Snape is Levicorpus which means Snape invented it. The soap bubble one was a generic spell.
@@toodlescae I wasn't talking about Sectumsempra. I was talking about Levicorpus, and I don't see how James Potter using a spell on Snape means Snape invented it. What is your reasoning behind this?
Edit: Okay, it took me a second to see what you mean, but it could mean any spell, really.
@@drvoid7No, he invented Levicorpus. They’re both in Advanced Potion Making.
The last Time I was this early, James and Lily were still alive.
I mean,if a dude who first interaction with me was making fun of me for no reason turned out to be a n*zi I would have hate him too. Hard to blame James for it.
Also Snape used insults like "lazy" towards James,like how was James lazy? Quidditch captain,Head boy,great student with great grades,animagus at 15.... So yeah,I would not use Snape as a reference for how James truly was,because his perception of him comes off like if he was deeply jealous of him
Don't forget that while at school, while Snape was inventing dark magic curses, James helped make one of the most singularly impressive magical artefacts ever seen in the whole series in the Marauder's Map. For fun too. It wasn't even a class project. Hardly screams lazy to me.
@@tyrannicpuppy you are right! James Fleamont Potter may have been many things,but lazy is not one if them!
The issue here is we really only see James from Snape's point of view so you only see the bad. James did some very good things for others including Snape who holds onto anger because James saved him. There is contradictory information on why he did it, to "save his own skin" or because he was standing up to his best friend
thank you for this video ive been fighting in the trenches for years 😭
If we're being real. Neither James nor Severus deserved Lily 🤷🏾♂️
Nobody “deserves” anyone, and James’s kindness outweighs his harshness by far
My only point is that we did not get enough of actual James Potter. All we ever know about him is by people close to him, his rivial Snape and other people who knew him. I still believe if we got more of James people would have loved him. Fir example, Sirius- we won't have loved him so much if we had only known him from flashbacks and from other people, but we acutally see him interact with people.
I have always felt that Snape’s worst memories true meaning is not revealed until the Princes Tale. It’s his worst memory NOT because of James bullying him (because this happened on more than this occasion) but it’s Snape’s worst memory because it is in this moment he lost Lily. Every good person we encounter within the story speaks so highly of James even Kingsley speaks of James with warmth when commenting on how Lupin is right about how much Harry looks like him. No person is a saint, which is a common theme in HP but James was definitely a good person.
my thought with James potter has changed a lot as i've gotten older. I'd like to think his opportunity to grow was cut short. im 25 and i can honestly say im a lot different than at 21. he had just become a husband and father, i'd hope he'd grow. hes almost the dark side of Harry.
Glad someone is making a video about this! Why are people hating so much on him because he got Lily? You know what, Lily chose HIM, not Snape... He turned around and alot of people are supid at that age and he chose to mature. Snape NEVER matured.
Also, I'd say he was someone who was raised and spoiled... when war came he decied to be better, that's my take on him. I'll NEVER forgive Snape for how cruel he was towards Neville and Hermoine (especially with her teeth). He was so mean, that he was Neville's boggart of all things.
Also, also... how do people tend to forgive Draco Malfoy and not James Potter when they were so alike?
and draco is even worse, at least James was doing a good thing for bullying a wannabe death eater, draco bullied the Boy Who Lived
@@anonymous99923 Draco bullied other people, too. Not just Harry. At least James just bullied Severus - and maybe the other to-be Deatheaters.
THANK YOU for this video OMG I am so tired of the fandom villainizing James and acting as if snape was this innocent dove just because he got that redemption arc (and certainly because of the character's romanticization in the movies)
Snape also used to test out his “Halfblood Prince” spells on other students.
imho the scenes from the pensieve are meant to include the biases and perspective of the original viewer, not 100% true recreations. Did James bully Severus? Probably. But he also dedicated basically his entire adult life to the order of phoenix straight out of high school (Basically a death sentence during that period of wizarding history)
I always thought of James and Sirius at Hogwarts as the Weasley twins but with a bit more bullying. James was an overall good person but he had his bad side.
can I just say I LIVE for all your Marauders content
Thank you for this clear perceptive of Snape before the deaths of the Potters. Even his role after Lilly's death was for his own selfish motivations. He is no more of a pivotal character than many others, it was only that his secrets were withheld from the reader until the end.
People think negatively of James because they think too positively of Snape, because of Alan Rickman’s portrayal.
The Snape dickriding has to come to an end if honest discussion is going to occur.
Alan Rickman did TOO GOOD of a job
Here's my take: As someone who was bullied relentlessly in school, I am not one to make excuses for it (though you could make the argument that it made me stronger). But the thing with James is...he, in his young and naive mind at the time, believed that his rightful hatred of the Dark Arts gave him license to harras anyone who had an interest in them. He thought he was "standing up for what's right". His heart and loyalty were in the right place, but thought he could take it upon himself to be the world's anti-Dark policeman or something haha. He had a lot of growing up to do, and he did. You can put Sirius in the same category. But for anyone still questioning whether or not James was a good man, remember this: He had a friend facing prejudice and bigotry, and became an Animagus to help him and be with him. Snape had a friend facing prejudice and bigotry, and he joined the bigots. VERY big difference there.
I'm sure you've been asked this a lot, but would you do a What if James Potter survived scenario? I'd love to see your interpretation of what would happen.
I love your videos and content so much. As an adult and insane PotterHead...you make me feel better about my knowledge and questions I ask about this literature. Please keep going and diving into the HP saga.
Today I learned there are people in the fandom who villainize James Potter.
mostly the Snape fans who hate a former bully to defend someone who was a bully as a teenager and as an adult.
I think another reason James seems so much worse than he actually was is because we are made to sympathize with Snape. We are shown his relationship with Lily when they were children. And even though Harry believes Snape is evil, the readers see how he is helping Dumbledore and following his orders - which Harry doesn't get to witness.
I also think that Alan Rickman’s portrayal of Snape (he brought something to this character that’s not in the books) and Snape being toned down in the movies. And, I think people enmesh their love for Alan Rickman and the Snape character.
@@raianthony8492agreed he was so much of a worse character in the movies like he literally bullied hermione for her teeth in the books
As an adult and her teacher
One do have to remember the wizard world was in a war. It was so bad that Hagrid himself even said that it was very dark times and that everybody was so scared that even after the war ended they still refuses to use the dark wizard's name. Wars changes people. James had to see allies and friends getting killed right in front of him.
You have to remember that he just became a father for a year and he find out that the dark wizard was going to go after his son. The man who let nobody lives when he decided to kill them. James had to be protective of his family. This wasn't about himself. He was willingly to hide in order to protect his wife and son. Then when he came, he tried his best to protect them.
You have to remember that he lost his parents young due to them being old when they had him. No doubt that he wishes that they were still around and that they could had met their grandson.
You have to remember that for all of his flaws he was still friends with both a werewolf and someone who comes from a pure-blood extremist family background. He didn't judges Remus and Sirius which is why both are so loyal to him even after his death.
James went through lot as a young adult so how can you say that he didn't changes? Also, some people don't get to burry the hacket but while it would been nice to do so, does that really mean that you changes or not? Some people will never get along no matter what. Also, even if he did, would Snape even accepts it? Would Snape even admit his own wrong doing in the feud? You can't put all the blame on James because Snape played a role in this too. Also, Snape became a death eater during their young adulthood so why on earth would James want to say "I'm sorry" to him?
The worst bullies do focus on one person or group and smooge up to the others that’s how they maintain control
bullies forget, bullied never forget
Wonder how Mary MacDonald feels
Neville ain't forgetting anytime soon lol
Didn't know james needed to be defended. James was a great man who was just pompus when young. See i dont veiw james as anything close to draco his younger self seems to be comparable to the weasly twins minus the relationship with snape
It’s so crazy, but over the last few years, there’s been this whole “James was a bad person” narrative. It’s beyond annoying AF.
@@raianthony8492 its been an overwhelming amount actually. i was starting to think i was the only one who didnt think James was a bad person.
@@snuffy357 I never saw it really stayed out of the online community because they whole heartily disagreed that snape was a bad guy who did good things
I think it was a deliberate choice on JK to make have the Potter’s lives end at such an early age.
It deliberately doesn’t give us enough time to get a full picture of who James and Lily are as adults and their moral character. More people would have a fair assessment of them as people overtime and Harry wouldn’t be imagining the memory of them as a complete fantasy. James and Lily are almost a mythos and everyone glorifies them and the loss of them, which wouldn’t have happened the same way later in their lives. Also you can see the secret keeper mistake and betrayal play out way better with 21 y/o’s than older and wiser adults. No way fully developed brains would’ve done what the Potters did.
I do think that for the movies, it was the right choice to age them up to look like mid/late 30s. It would not have translated well to have 11/15/17 year old Harry standing next to his 21/22 year old
Parents who’d look more like his siblings overtime. It would’ve been too weird and distract from the story and character development of the other adults/Marauders. Both book and movies treated the Potters well for the context they needed to have i think
If i remember correctly, in the books wasn't James disgusted when Snape said mudblood?
He was, and that when he gets even worse to snape I that scene
@@taylorhagen3916he did dislike it but is not due that why he continued the attack, is because he was mad lily rejected him in public, he was redirecting his shame imo,thats why he is mad when sirius tells him lily thinks he is big headed
@@jayla3282he hated blood purity and the dark arts from the start, it was more likely that than any embarrassment. Remember, his best friend was a werewolf and he immediately joined the war effort against Death Eaters two years later
@@dannymac939 lily just screamed in his face that he didnt have to make snape do anything and that james was just as bad, james asks whats her problem and sirius responds she prolly thinks he is airheaded then he gets mad and redirects the crowd's atention to snape, I am not saying james wasnt against blood purity but that moment it wasnt rlly about that imo
I have hated the character of James Potter since I first read his books in elementary school, the hatred towards him only increased once I went to middle school. In fact I found people who perfectly reflected the character of James, very loyal to their friends, nice to everyone, but who hate you for no reason. And then you ask yourself questions, am I the mistake? Did I happen to do something wrong? well the answer is no, I simply exist. I can say that now in high school I'm much better without those people around, but I can't deny that they left me with a lot of insecurities. I'm just saying that constantly annoying a person simply to have a laugh in a boring moment is not good behavior, and I know that Snape wasn't in his right mind, but I can say that I experienced what it feels like to be in the crosshairs of a James and it's not nice.
Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will shut up haters like you for good.
when harry was talking to Sirius and lupin, lupin says that James did hex students just walking down the hall for simply being in the hallway with him and only stopped doing so in 7th year. and when sirius defended James saying they where just teenagers, harry yells in exasperation that when the fight between Snape and James at on the grounds had happened harry and James would of been the same age. and I think he also said he would never of done something even to Malfoy.
We tend to forget that they were young when he died. We didn't getbthe chance to see him actually grow. And thats if he was a bully. Correct me if I'm wrong but Snape who was, for lack of a better term, his enemy/rival is the only one to say he was a bully, etc.
No, when Harry saw Snape's worst memory of what James did to him, he went to confront Lupin and Sirius about it. And they admitted to him that James was indeed a bully. But unlike Snape, James grew out of it.
Uhm I wouldn't say that, just because Snape's spells are dark and phisically dangerous, what James does is not as bad. James goes for emotional damage instead of physical, but he does so in a brutal way: he literally turns him upside down and strips him in front of their peers, making fun of him. That's a really horrible kind of violence, even if the scars it leaves aren't as evident. Honestly, a cut leaves less permanent damage.
Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will shut up haters like you for good.
This is a huge thing for me in the series. James wasn’t perfect by any means, but the important thing is that he grew up. This is the contrast with Snape. I know loving and defending Snape is popular, but the truth is he was a coward (at least in some regards). He didn’t have the courage to back off from the dark arts, and take the next step to try and make amends with Lilly, and that’s why he was “always” admiring her from the shadows. But James did. He changed. He recognized that the person he was at 15 wasn’t who he wanted to be, and he changed for Lilly. He grew up into the man that was brave enough to try and take on Voldemort wandless, and that makes all the difference!
That isnt cowardice, its him following his (wrong) convictions, he didnt listen to lily because he prefered power, he is loyal to himself, he only realized he was wrong when he realized it wasnt worth lily dying
I always viewed James bullying of Snape and his targeting of him as spurred in large part by his jealousy that Lily liked hanging out with Snape, but didn't like James. And James was likely used to getting what he wanted. I imagined that his behavior started to change after Sirius' "prank", as i can't imagine that he didn't wonder if played a role in fostering an environment that may have made Sirius think that was okay. Remus even says that after that incident (or maybe after Lily and James got together) that James' behavior did change and he stopped targeting Snape, only defending himself when Snape attacked first.
I do think James started off as a spoiled, mean-spirited bully. But i do feel like that changed after his 5th year and he grew into a better person.
Snape is a bad person who did some good things (out of guilt/deal with Dumbledore, not even for selfless reasons). James was a good person who did some bad things (as a teenager).
I need a marauders show so badly, it makes so much sense to me aswell because they’d have a clear framework of plot points but complete creative freedom to do whatever they want
no, why do you want content that supports JK? She holds racist and transphobic beliefs.
Anybody ever ask what Snapes fate would be without Dumbledore? Prison or death. Also if Dumbledore didn't give Griffindor last minute points Snape would just unjustly docked points like he does constantly. Snape bullies children that have nothing to do with his childhood trauma, at least James stopped his asshole ways b4 he passed.
Woah two Ben Carlin theories back to back? Surely that can't be right. Surely we have to wait months on end to see a theory present by Ben?
The fact is in order of the phoenix book Harry goes through this whole topic
I have been making this exact argument for years. Thank you guys for putting it so well in this format!
I think James was certainly a bit of brat but I think he also grew out of it. His feud with Snape was definitely fueled with petty jealousy over Snape’s closeness with Lily but also his detest for the Dark Arts.
One thing I'm wondering is how the heck did James go from serial troublemaker in his fifth year to being head boy in his seventh?
Maybe Dumbledore saw something in him potinial and had a talk with him
I think it was when Sirius ran away to the Potters’ that forced James to mature. Sirius would have been extremely traumatised and James would have wanted to help his friend. This would lead to Sirius talking to James about what happened to him at Grimmauld Place, showing James the extent of Sirius’ trauma and making him reflect on how to be a better friend and to tone down his pranks. He would have always been mischievous (which may have been inherited from either parent), but pranks would have taken a back burner at Hogwarts for their last 2 years, allowing Lilly to see this more sensitive side to James and eventually falling in love. McGonagall would have noticed this too and reported it to Dumbledore, thus making him headboy
Did you guys see the teaser trailer for the live action ATLA? Looks genuinely phenomenal! So hyped!
Harming someone emotionally is worse than harming someone physically. And I stand by that opinion.
“Never mistake youthful selfishness for genuine malice. Nobody isn’t kind of an asshole in their teens, and if they weren’t, they were probably sociopaths.”
-Dracula
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the “pivot” clip.
I would adore a Mauraders series, maybe even have the final season(s) focus on the original war against Voldemort
What If idea: What if Snape heard none/all of the prophecy (I don't remember if this has been done yet)
Thanks for the insights! Super (get it?) interesting as always. I actually disagree that Snape’s redemption arc is beautiful. James’s bullying was unacceptable but rooted in insecurity. He was a prince at home and not as special as he thought at school. So the parallel with Draco is dead on!!! However, James never struggled with the tough decisions : his friend was a ware wolf so the only logical decision is to become an animagus! his best friend is kicked off from home and he takes him in! fighting Voldemort? Of course he will. And I personally think that the rift between Lily and Snape and Sirius getting kicked out (which happens pretty much around the same time - end of 5th year) made him grow up. He realized just how lucky he was and that his actions had consequences. And he grew out of the insecurity that made him a bully and grew up. I would never EVER justify bullying. But James freed himself from the burden that made him a bully even if Snape was always going to be a trigger for him. Snape on the other hand stayed prisoner of his own resentment. And that is what made him the perfect triple agent : his was genuine in his hatred. But the difference is that James was a bully as a kid. While Snape was an adult and can’t hide behind youthful mistakes. He bullied Harry and Neville who had done NOTHING to him personally. So he became the bully that he accused James of being. And further, he hides behind James’ bullying as an excuse for his own. Totally agree that Snape can’t blame James for becoming a death eater. And the fact that he found acceptable that James and Harry die so that Lily can live is proof of that. So I totally agree with Sirius: James was far from perfect and probably would have made many more mistakes if he had lived longer. We all have our flaws and hurt people along the way even if we don’t want to. But at his core, James was and wanted to be a good person who would have had to live with the consequences of his mistakes.
Sorry for the long comment but that is precisely the reason I love the Marauder’s Era so much: they are ALL perfectly flawed to the opposite of the golden trio who almost make the right choices all the time. Ron is the only one whose flaws are shown and even those mistakes were the result of the people around him who were so perfect and that he simply couldn’t live up to. Maybe a little bit like Snape who just chose a dark path to cope.
It's funny
James is Slytherinlike in sone way but because he's brave at heart and values things that Godric did, just like Harry
Maybe he even had a similar experience
And his best friend, Sirius, was expected for Slytherin, but rejects their ideals
I bet he got questioned by the hat too
Except James was never a Hatstall. He was sorted straight into Gryffindor before the hat could even touch his head. What does that say about James?
Thank you. Thank you so much for FINALLY making this video. James has always been my personal favorite character, both from what little info we get in the books, but especially from how he's portrayed in the fandom, and the amount of hate he's gotten over the years is distressing. (Like, Sirius did worse to Snape-literally sets him up to die at the hands of Lupin, which, fun fact, would likely have gotten Lupin euthanized as well, and it's JAMES who saves him and Snape BOTH-but no one mentions that when bringing up Snape's time at school.)
So, genuinely thank you 😊
Great video as always, fellas. Completely unrelated, I recently started noticing a very low hum in your videos. It's been present for a little while. Sounds like either an ungrounded cable or maybe just an air conditioner. I only really notice it when I have my subwoofer is on, but thought I'd say something as I only hear it in your videos and it goes away when you're not mic'd.
what if idea; what if James had survived and raised Harry?
if Voldemort had only blasted him through a wall or stunned him
To guote my guy Sirius Black, “the world isn’t split between good people and Death Eaters.” Snape and James were both flawed people capable of both good and bad. Comparing the degrees of goodness or evil in their actions is arbitrary. Harry still loves them both enough to name his children after them.
Let’s go new super Calvin brothers video
Next up: SUPER HOBBES BROTHERS!
@@SuperCarlinBrothers COOL!
In the books, Snape is on only one side, himself. He has no inclination to favor one side over the other including snitching out others of each group. In the movies, it seems as if they wanted to redeem Snape by showing him in a better light in the end. The fact was, he WAS a Death Eater! How and when he got his mark is the question? Was he a Death Eater before graduating? What did he have to do to get the mark? James was a prat when he was a kid, no doubt, but turned it around and grew up. Snape was everything he accused Harry of being, and just got worse.
James always hit me as that one bully who isn't as bad as everyone says
as someone who was bullied at school bully is a bully and other good things James did do not change that fact
No James wasn't bad.
@@villekuronen6242 were you constantly calling literally every person of a certain group of people a slur?
@@villekuronen6242 As a person who was also bullied at school, I would like to say that bullies are not just bullies. They're complex people with complex emotions. Yes, what they do is wrong; believe me, I am *very much* aware of that fact. But that doesn't make them irredeemable. As an adult, James was a member of the original Order of the Phoenix, which is no small feat considering how scared everyone in the Wizarding community was of Lord Voldemort and his Death Eaters. He did the right thing because it was the right thing.
On the other hand, Severus Snape was already enamored with the Dark Arts, believed in "pureblood supremacy", and aspired to become a Death Eater *as a teenager at school.* He only became a double agent for Dumbledore when his actions led to the death of the object of his obsessive quote-unquote "love". He never left the "Death Eater mentality"; the only reason he fought against Voldemort was because he hated him for killing Lilly. *Also also, actually actually,* Snape straight up bullied children at school *as a 30 year old man,* to the point where students were terrified of him! GROW UP!
did you even read the books? Did you even watch this video? JAMES ONLY BULLIED SNAPE BECAUSE SNAPE WAS A WANNABE DEATH EATER SINCE THE AGE OF 11, JAMES WASN'T BULLYING A HARMLESS CHILD, HE WAS TEACHING A FUTURE DEATH EATER A LESSON@@villekuronen6242
This video also made me feel that we could do with a Marauders spinoff - would be a good opportunity to see James from different perspectives
If Snape was just rude and mean to Harry I might buy that it's because of James and old wounds run deep. But he isn't. He is mean to almost all the children and downright cruel to Longbottom. And whatever you might say about how James was to Snape, the Longbottoms were not mean or cruel to him. Plus he called Lily Mudblood. I don't care how he *SAID* he felt about her I don't know many racists who love someone of the race they hate and call them the same racist term. He might have loved her but she didn't love him.
His hatred of Neville is easy to parse. Neville had the utter gall to not be the one Voldemort picked. Therefore he's as guilty as everyone else (except Severus himself) in Snape's mind. Despite the fact that Snape was the one who set Voldy off on that path to begin with. He knew what his boss was like. And he told the man obsessed with living forever (something we know he told his followers) that a baby would be a threat to him. There was no other course Tom was going to take upon receiving that info.
To be fair being a teacher was more something forced upon him, by Dumbledore. Not everybody has the right temperament and Snape comes off as more of an introverted type who would have been happier locking himself away in a lab and studying magic and potions.
@@anvos658 you say that but Snape wanted to be DADA professor. And I don't remember it saying anywhere that Albus made Snape become the potions prof?
9:09 actually we do… I’m talking about All The young Dudes if you couldn’t tell. It’s basically so canon at this point that I made my own paper & hard back cover of the masterpiece.
I've always thought James was closer to cormack mcclaggen. A generally good person but just an arrogant and smug git. Draco's arrogance is family notoriety and racism. Mcclaggen and James both fall for muggleborns, and so blood status means nothing, but their arrogance comes from just an overly large ego and jock pride.
I think Cormack is a bit more pig-headed and violent but the comparison has merit
@aetherius6221 we see very little of James behaviour except what's directed at Snape and I think if we saw more of him we probably would see someone closer to cormack.
@@felicityanne979 we never saw Cormack having fierce loyalty to friends, lack of pureblood pride, accepting nature and outstanding bravery, all things we saw James have