DANE AXE vs MONTANTE (Greatsword)
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2023
- A fun matchup we did on a whim merely because we had these two training weapons to hand and we thought it would be fun. The synthetic montante is by Black Fencer (flamberge model) and is of exact typical weight (2,2kg) and handling for a small greatsword of it's type. The Dane Axe is a rubber head by Arcem (sold through Black Armoury) on an ash shaft. It weighs just over 1kg, putting it right at the bottom end of the 1-2kg typical weight range for this type of weapon, and clearly a little lighter in the head for safety reasons, giving the Axe a little bit of an advantage in agility over what it likely would have had, but not by a huge margin.
Note that the term "Dane axe" can me misleading in some regards, but it is also now in common usage and is even what the product used is named.
This was filmed at the AHF run Spring Open Sparring day, 2023, featuring a mix of different HEMA clubs from across England and Wales.
🎵 Song: 'Miguel Johnson - Good Day To Die' is under a creative commons license license.
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The reach difference and calmer approach the Dane Axe user had seemed to make a big difference. I would say that if I was the Montante user I probably would've focused on and abused its thrust a lot more. It seemed kind of like they were trying to use the Montante similarly to the Axe and it just wasn't cutting it (heeheehohohawhaw).
I also probably would've tried to grab the shaft in those probes that axe user was putting out there.
As you can see in the one handed actions with such a large weapon you’d sacrifice a lot of control over the sword, hence you’re effectively disarming yourself for a chance at disarming your opponent. It can be an effective tool however only at close to grappling range, usually followed up by a pommel strike or takedown as seen in some systems
I absolutely loved this!
I hope we'll get to see more of it in HEMA, now that we have safe-ish simulators - I do appreciate the control you guys had to not hurt each other.
I like the little hit markers. It's good for folks who never seen this before to know what's happening.
Still feels like he was trying to longsword with a montante.
What’s the difference between them?
@@Nickthebassist01 montante is usually used like a short spear by halfswording or in wide continuous swings. you can watch montante treatises to see how they're supposed to be used.
I love the hit markers on the edit! Thanks all!
The length of it looks good, thus making it effective!
Great match. Thanks for all the work you do in editing to help us see all of the hits.
These slow mo touch animations are a really good addition! Great show too, good stuff.
Always a pleasure to see a fight like this
The change to slo-mo and hit markers was great. The video flowed well, but allowed the uninitiated viewer to understand what was going on. Enjoyed, thank you
Great video and this sort of encounter would have been common in 16th century Ireland. The Gallowglass used the sparth (the proper name for the dance axe) since the mid 13th century but during the 16th century we have many transition into greatswords.
I personally prefer the sparth over the greatsword as that over hang is really good at getting around guards and shields. The offset tip also allows you to stab in ways that a sword and spear cannot. I personally call it the hook 'n jab.
Makes sense, Ireland was behind in armor development because of terrain and isolation so I wouldn’t be surprised if shield were more common is Irish warfare cus plate armor wasn’t.
@@PJDAltamirus0425 They had full plated knights in Ireland known as the Ridire. They were descendants to Norman knights but became, "more Irish than the Irish themselves". They wore plate armor but got rid of the stirrups and used the lance over armed.
As for shields only the levies used large shields. The Kerns may have a targe but sometimes they just used a specialized gauntlet known as a left gauntlet, great gauntlet, or parry gauntlet. Kerns relied on mobility and skirmishing tactics than file and rank fighting which was not ideal in Irish terrain.
And they weren't isolated. By the 16th century they were hired as mercenaries all over Europe. The most famous painting by Albrecht Durer was from a company that were hired as bodyguards in the HRE.
@@GallowglassAxe Well, comparatively isolated and pics? All the pics of irish calvary I've seen shown them in maille. Also, leves using shields is still large when compared to continental soldiers more commonly using pikes. Like due to geography, irlenad didn't really have vast armies regular crossing over it's border or as much of trade network as say Italy,france ,germany.
@@PJDAltamirus0425 I mean most of Irish sword blades came from Spain or Germany. They had connection with Italy and often fought with or against the French on who hired them. Not as connected during the Early medieval period where you had trader all the way from Africa.
As for armor you have the Battle of Piltown 1462 and Battle of Knockdoe 1504 are two examples of accounts of Irish Ridire and wearing plate armor. The pics you were referencing is probably from the 16th century and you will also notice the English didn't use plate armor either.
The Irish have a really long history of using spears and pikes. Depending on what time frame the Irish pike is usually smaller than other pikes because they want to be more maneuverable. This tradition continues to where you have a treatise in 1853 on the Irish pike which features a collapsible pike. They were even used in the Easter Uprising. So yes they used pikes just a much.
They were also highly regarded for their gunnery during the late 16th century. Not only for holding formation and not breaking rank but they were also good at hit and run tactics.
@@PJDAltamirus0425 This idea that the Irish were primitive savages was propaganda made by the English to better colonize them. Much of the history, art, and treasures of Ireland were taken and/or destroyed by the English after the 9 years war and later the English Civil War. This style of propaganda continued and the English perfected when they colonized other areas like Africa and the Middle East.
Appreciate the hit markers.
I'm a simple person, I see big weapon I click video
Fun watch👍
Outstanding! What a combination of unseen weapons. Edits are terrific too-doesn’t need the music, though👍. Loved it
It seems as if in a real fight the initial focus would be fucking up the opponents grip and footwork with shallow cuts before being bold (or desperate) enough for actual killing blows where the force and commitment would leave oneself exposed.
I am curious since you got inside of the axe head a lot of times, why didn't you grab the shaft and yank it out of his hands since the axe head acts as a good hand stop?
Beau Duel ! Bravo. Il y a juste un hic. En combien de coup pensez vous que le manche de la hache se brise si l'épée étai aiguiser et est ce que le fer de hache est en plastique? Parceque les mouvements du porteur me paraissent bien trop rapides...
Nice event.
Nice skills. Greetings from Spain.
Surprisingly well matched
Bit of a side point, but does anyone happen to know when the term "Dane axe" was roughly first used? I get the impression it's a pretty misleading term. Also, does anyone happen to know if "Broad axe" may have been used to describe the same thing? I've seen references to that term and I'm not quite sure what kind of axe it's referring to
Yeh it is a misleading term, especially as ithey were used more widely as well, but like a lot of collector terms it has become the standard that people understand. Most period sources rarely distinquish between different types of axes. Sometimes mentioning long handled, big or heavy axes, which might indicate this type of so called Dane axe. I have seen the occasional period use of "Danish axe", but with no indication as to what this is, and in the context it may well have simply meant a Danish made or used axe.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing in the historical context, the term dane itself was missaplied to all people from scandinavia, no matter which "country" they came from. so in a way the misleading term is kinda fitting
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Do you know roughly when the earliest reference might be?
And as an important second question, any idea when and where the earliest found confirmed "Dane axe" head was from? I wouldn't be surprised if these were weapons common to most Germanic peoples tbh
Yes, though I was referring to it's use outside of Scandinavia, seeing as these axes became popular in England, Ireland, Scotland, Northern France etc. Look to the Bayeux tapestry for example.
@@user-ch9vd4cd3t I did wonder, but it's hard to know what "broad" might be referring to. Is it possible that it's referring to the thicker blade of splitting axes (compared to the typically thinner blades of fighting axes)?
How to have a spicy melee from one zipcode away
serious question for anyone knowledgable- with real sharpened blades, how would the wooden shaft of the dane axe effects things? always wondered with pole type arms in this regard..thnx
You can target the shaft though you have to still be able to defend and present a threat to the opponent. It can be tough especially since those shafts arent easily cut or broken but it is possible
Very nice ! Whay size is that Dane axe's shaft ?
This one is 160cm, on the large side for the user for the type.
@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Thank you fpr your reply ! I am planning of commisioning a functional sharp 2 handed battle axe similar to a dane axe but from the xiv - xvth century... I plan to do cutting practice with it :) what do you think would be a good size for the shaft for it ? I personally am not so tall, I am just 172 centimeters high ( 5'8 ) would a 120 cm shaft be ok for me or should I chose it to be a little smaller ? Thanks in advance !
I need to know where that guy got his sword
Whats the song in the intro?
Can you parry an axe strike since the axe can only attack in cutting blows and need a wind up if you can parry and then grab it you win
The axe is not only a blade, it is also a mace.
I was expecting the axe head to be larger. However, seeing its effective use, a larger head would definitely be a drawback.
It's interesting how pop culture gives a person a skewed view of reality.
The axe is underrated
Although from a different time period, it is basically a halberd.
this sword looks like from an anime
It is a flamberge blade type on a montante, or zweihander/greatsword. Indeed they have been widely copied in fantasy, in games and in anime, because they already look so fantastical.
Both of them shold protect themselves with their weapon, and less protect weapons with their bodies
Idk how I feel about the Dane Axe getting points off of a stab lol. Oh well my drunk azz still enjoyed the video.
Have a look at the shape of some of the blades, many of them very much could stab, they were not shaped like most wood splitting axes.
i feel like in a real fight the sword will break the handle of the axe
Cutting through a wood shaft, specially one made out of Ash is not as easy as one might think!
The montante guy is totally clueless about his weapon.. he is using it like he was using a longsword....that weapon is meant to be rotating the whole time, never still....
You would tired quickly...and Godinho never mentions doing such a thing!
The dane axe has not weigth to it so It balances like a stick and the guy with the montante is swinging it too much, more sthrust should have been used, yes I know what I am talking about, if a guy with a dane can beat me using my montante I must have a stroke or something, my weapong has the same reach but it is WAY quicker to change direction and had a edge all a long it and it has a guard. You need to SUCK for the guy in the dane to defeat you, add real balance to the DANE train more and come back.
The lighter weight of the dane axe is discussed in the description, it is a neccessity for safety, but it is only a little lighter than many originals, as they were not like wood splitting axes, and so no a montante is not neccessarily quicker to change direction than a dane axe, in fact many originals I have handled are quite the handful, though they vary a lot like all antiques. The Dane axe can also much more quickl;y make grip shifts to change the leverage. Then we have the fact that Rick is still relatively new to montante and he is fighting his instructor. Nobody said it was a completely fair and scientific comparison of the two, merely a fun exhibition, but a Dane axe is still a very formidable weapon and one which can work in very surprising ways to those who have not faced them before.