Also, for the love of god, don't hit the brakes going around corners in the snow and ice. If you need to slow down, do it BEFORE you turn. Every winter in Michigan I'd see dozens of people fail at this and end up spinning out into a ditch or the guardrail.
Jim Pekarek Yeah he totally missed explaining why it’s a circle and not a square. The tradeoff between cornering and braking. You can do one, or the other, or a little teensy bit of both. But you can’t have all of both at the same time.
Yeah if I realize I'm going too fast, it's simple enough to threshold brake hard right to the limit on a dry patch rather than do some braking later in the turn. It has saved me I believe once or twice in harsh Vermont winter storm conditions.
I can’t believe this wasn’t on our driving test. I had no idea of this concept until I spun out going extremely slow in sleet. Now I do this even in dry environments to maintain good muscle memory.
Great way to temporarily melt the snow under your tires and turn it into ice when it re-freezes while the snow in front builds up, making you more stuck.
In Sweden we get to spend a few hours driving on ice to try stopping, swerving etc to get a feeling for how the car reacts in slippery conditions aswell as some theory about it. You wont get a license here unless you do this course.
Didn’t know that! In Canada every province sets its own requirements, and only a few require winter tires. There’s basically the minimum US licensing approach here unfortunately and it’s only small population which keeps things sane for many (rural) areas of the country. The cities are bad (both Montréal and Toronto, I live in one of them) and poor driver education / basically no requirements, costs us a lot of lives unnecessarily here.
@@acchaladka We are required by law to use winter tires between december 1st and march 31st, and are allowed to use them between october 1st and april 15th, or if its slippery/snowy conditions. If you dont use winter tires and cause an accident you can be charged with reckless driving, even on a date when winter tires arent required by law but its snowy or icey, lets say spring stays for a while and its still snowy april 20th, had a case of that where I live this spring actually. If you search for "Halkbana" on youtube you can see the course we are obliged to take to get our license. If its summer its done on alot of water or a skid construction on the car that lifts it so traction becomes close to driving on ice, during winter its done on ice. Its a really good course, i drove my first winter in a RWD Volvo 940 with a locking diff and without traction control etc, made it through one damn hard winter without even being close to crashing thanks to the knowledge etc I got at that course xD
Wiikendz Sounds like a fun training, I’ll look it up, thanks. Though winter tires are mandatory between Nov 15 and April 15 for us here in the province of Québec, it’s important to avoid driving during the first real winter storm as everyone seems to forget how to drive in snow that day and has to relearn. Most of your population seems to live south where there’s more ice so I imagine it’s more difficult there than here where temps hit winter and hover between minus ten and minus forty for basically the whole season. We just have snow driving for six months, with relatively little ice. I really like the idea of charging people with reckless driving for not having appropriate tires.
Don't assume the person in front of you has the same breaking ability. You might be on ice, but they may hit a dry patch and stop on a dime. Opposite is true. If you stop unexpectedly fast, make sure the person behind you isn't about to ram you. If you can, move a bit ahead, allowing them to get to the dry patch.
Other points from a Canadian: - clearance between bottom of vehicle and the ground sometimes matters, but that's a vehicle decision more than a driving decision - adding weight to the vehicle (by having more stuff in it, for instance) can enlarge the traction circle...not sure by how much though - intersections where cars must stop tend to develop ice because exhaust gases melt snow, which then refreezes
Greetings from Finland. I would say one thing you should do is lose the traction on purpose. Not to crash into something, but to test the grip level SAFELY. So maybe you gain that knowledge already trying to leave your parking spot and having a little wheel spin non-purpously. But if you don't I'd suggest to get some momentum on the road and at a safe place break until you lock the tires. You will get a feel on HOW slippery the road is. The funny thing is that while dry and wet road surfaces have pretty constant amounts of traction, in snow the traction may vary wildly so you need to test it. Also practice to lose the control. This needs to be done also safely and in closed area for it to be legal (or in a parking lot and hope that cops won't see you). It's important to know how it feels when you lose the control and to learn to get it back (counter steering etc). This also helps not to panic if it happens for real. Pro tips: as in the video, slow smooth inputs and especially when accelerating from full stop short shift to lower the torque; remember that the traction may vary a lot also locally (within meters); and remember that someone else might not be expert in snow so keep your distance to other drivers.
The way I test it is by giving myself far more than enough distance from the next car at the coming traffic light, then brake hard. That gives me an idea of stopping distance at any given day. The snow level can vary from one day to the next, sometimes it changes by the hour.
I did this as a young man and it has helped me immeasurably. Finding out how your car will respond in different adverse conditions will help you when actually on the road. Glad to see/hear someone else besides me has figured this little technique out !… Bravo
When I had just got my drivers license and it was winter I was designated driver for the night in a rear wheel drive Opel Record. After dropping of the passengers I found a empty parking lot and started playing around drifting for the first time in a real car having so much fun learning how to handle rear wheel drive on ice and snow. It was fun until the police arrived... They was not happy about me drifting but I told them the truth that I was learning how to drive rear wheel drive and they accepted that explanation and did not give me a ticket, just a warning to not do that anymore. Sadly I was forced to drive a wrong wheel drive car for 8 years before I got rid of it and bought a Ascona B with rear wheel drive and later a MB 190E. I absolutely hate front wheel drive... 4wd is ok if it has rear wheel drive bias.
Very good recommendation I do this all the time. I apply the brakes till they lock up and ABS is engaged. Then I determine where my threshold breaking is before ABS is engaged. This allows me to determine the limit. I do also have 20 years experience, driving rally cars and driving in snow is my favorite. Everybody should do this in changing road conditions in a safe spot with no traffic around.
One thing you didn't mention -- if you have, say, 0.3G of grip in snow, that's a *total* amount of grip available to you. It is *split* between acceleration/deceleration and cornering. If you are *only* cornering -- with absolutely *no* acceleration or braking, then and only then do you get that full 0.3G to help you make that turn. If you are accelerating or braking *at all,* then your cornering grip is reduced by however much grip is being used by that acceleration or braking. It's why anti-lock brakes make you feel like you're "speeding up" when you turn while braking hard. The system is calibrated to automatically assume steering is more important than braking, so it reduces braking force to let the steering happen without sliding or locking up the wheels.
Definitely. I've enjoyed fast driving and long ago got into the habit of doing most braking before entering corner with minimal brake force. Yes, there's trail braking but more generally.
I wonder why that important thing didnt exist on this video.. That is the g-force grip circle all about. You dont need circle if talking two directions separetely as he did.. You cant seperate those in real life though.. Can abc brakes drop braking power to allow some force to steering also? Its complicate thing becouse rolling tire gets better friction than sliding tire but still you cant use maximum rolling friction to get some turning grip also.
We also get to see steel on the car magically turn to dust because of the salt on the roads. Brake lines get gaping holes! You have to experience that!
Tips from a snow driver: Don't drive on old winter tires. Switch every fourth season, even if the tires have been in storage most of the time. (The tire hardens over time, which reduces your grip) Driving on new studded tires? Drive slow the first 200 miles or so. No hard breaking, hard accelerations or turns. The studs may not set in a right angled position if you drive them too hard when "breaking them in". Check your wear pattern regularly. You should have a minimum of 3-4mm. Don't wear the tires down to the minimum markings. If the roads are icy - don't trust the tires. Just drive really really carefully. Even if you're on studded tires. If your tires aren't studded - use an alternative form of transportation if you can. Especially if you're not comfortable driving in hazardous winter conditions. Where I live, winter lasts for about half a year. I drive like a priest when it is icy. The stopping distance is ridiculous, even at very low speeds. Four wheel drive doesn't help at all when it comes to stopping distance. You have to be equally careful in a 4wd, rwd or fwd.
I drove on the same cheap Walmart winter tires for 14 years. They lasted 4 separate cars. I only replaced them because they leaked air after being patched multiple times. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing what I did, but those tires lasted a lot longer than anyone expected.
I remember a time in the SF area and it snowed a light trace, just enough to stick on the grass beside the road. The locals there were so fearful of it they slowed freeway traffic down to 20 mph. The road was wet but no snow or ice on it.
I live in a college town built on several hills where it snows a lot. People come from all over the world to go to school here. College age kids from hot places that never get snow driving things like mustangs and fancy cars their rich parents bought them. Winter is fun here...
I remember driving in the mountains in British Columbia early in the morning when it was dark out. There was ice and blowing snow and I was going 60 km/h then some pickup truck passed me then further up the road he slipped around a bend and had crashed. People really just need to slowdown in winter. Even having a 4x4 with winter tires and ground clearance you can still crash trying to go fast. Maybe you will have to leave earlier for work. Maybe you might be late. But it is better than getting killed over being inpatient.
Prairielander the increased ground clearance of douchebags in lifted trucks actually decreases their traction as there is a higher center of mass so therefore a longer lever arm of the lateral G force around a turn (easier to tip over) which unweights the inside tires and increase the G force to the putter tires making them slide out. I used to get passed by those idiots in lifted trucks driving to school in my rear wheel drive Volvo and almost every time I’d come around a certain flat corner and they’d be in the ditch; I’d just honk and 🤙🏻
The thing the folks in 4WD/AWD vehicles seem to forget is _every_ car has 4-wheel braking, so when it comes to stopping, you aren’t really any better off. If the FWD car ahead of you couldn’t stop due to road conditions, you probably can’t stop any shorter. I see so many folks in 4WD trucks and SUVs who don’t leave extra follow distance in winter because they have 4WD and think they don’t need to. And then they end up rear-ending someone else as a result. Or, best case scenario, end up in a ditch or hitting something on the side of the road in their attempts to not rear-end someone (when they realize in time that they’re not going to be able to stop and try to swerve instead).
It's simple you don't need to be a engineer to figure out how to drive on snow SLOW DOWN GET OFF YOUR PHONE PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD Sincerely a concerned Professional Truck Driver
One of the best pieces of advice I got for winter driving was from my grandfather - 'drive like there's a glass of fine wine on the bonnet' - you're gonna be careful with that bugger! Accelerating, braking & cornering.
And when you get set of nice expensive studded tyres drift only when there isn't spots with out snow :D Otherwise you are going to destroy your tires quite fast. Studless tyres are also good option for enjoying winter with out fearing so much destroying your tires but they are useless on frozen lakes so if you want to drift on those you need studded tyres. Also remember to switch your tyres around every year so they wear evenly and you get more balanced grip (or lack of it :D) And most importantly don't buy boring fwd car!
Kind of not so useful advice -- very few people are buying studded tyres and even when people live in the mountains, or Snow belt , they still believe in the nonsense "all season tires " and refuse to "....waste money for snow tires..."
+Guergui Stoyanov Here in Finland probably 70% use studded tyres and 25% good studless winter tyres for 3-6 months every winter so at least places like northern Europe and norther parts of America it's "useful advice" :D
+Engineering Explained Thanks! I have been watching your channel also pretty long, you have good and well made videos. I have to also mention that I have also S2000 :D I bought it about 3 years ago and it has been great car!
If I'm correct, some ice racing courses requires a roll cage if racing with studded tires. Only other downside is that (cheap) studded tires tends to suck at snow traction compared to studless. Studded tires works best on smooth ice. Otherwise, studless gets the best traction. Think about the road conditions before deciding on a tire.
4:12 "you may drive with 3-4 seconds" i instantly remembered my daily commute when I sometimes leave less than 2 seconds and every driver behind me thinks it's a great idea to overtake and cut me off. In any condition. Lovely.
Jarek Pszuk Agreed. It's the lack of OTHER DRIVERS attention and ability, that's impossible to control, no matter how much driving skill and experience you might have.
Let's see. 50 kph, ~14 mps... 2 seconds sound about right for novice drivers to be on the safe side. 3-4 sec would be an overkill. No one leaves 50 meter gap in a big city :)
Thank you for this. I am a child of the north - grew up in North Dakota just south of Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. Figure skating coach commuted down from Canada to coach our club. When I go to Tahoe to ski sometimes I stop and help foreign visitors with snow chains.
Alas, how many times (under all kinds of scenarios and situations) have I said to the clueless dumbf--- ahead of me, "Please keep going. Please keep going. *DAMN you. Keep going.* " Even for a yellow light. Clueless dumbf---s :(
If you get stuck you weren't going fast enough. :P Jokes aside don't try to smash through snow banks. Snow is hard so is ice but hardest of all is the buried Mercedes.
@Future Hindsight but the car is heavier so u have more energy to loose. On the third hand... you should have a bit more grip... so id say it depends...
@Future Hindsight cmon... So there must b something wrong with this 2wd, either ABS broken or brake force corrector. Now there are also other factors involved like kinda of tranmission not to mention road state.
@@daltonbrink6336 so again... Do you have ABS? To be honest.... If you really can drive 2wd is enough for the most situations, even in quite steep moutains 😁.
I manage a group of drivers for my Company's pharmacy. I have recently experienced 4 car accidents this Winter Season 2018 - 2019, and I have to say; this video has helped tremendously in my employees understanding the science of Winter driving profoundly. Thank you for putting this together!
In Finland we used to have ice tracks where people could learn to drive on slippery surface, but since EU join they are prohibited for environmental reasons. Many want them back for everyone's safety. Now many train skills without a track and on unsafe ice or on public roads without permission.
This reminds me of a time I was going over the mountain into Nevada to visit my father in the winter time. My mother asked me if I knew how to drive in the snow. I responded with " Yeah sideways."
Excellent tip! In fact, I’ll use coffee for that... I’ll just get a big full cup of coffee and drive on snow... If I make it to the destination I get to drink the coffee... hahah Love it!
Thanks for the info about traction circles. I’d never seen it that way. And two thumbs up for mentioning that you need to ease in to the acceleration and braking. That is something everyone needs to understand. I only wish you had spent a few more moments to emphasize that a bit more. I may be wrong, but I think that is what most people fail to understand. You can’t just stomp on your brakes in the snow or ice. Your need to ease in to it or you’ll have less braking power and less control. When you stomp on the brakes in poor traction conditions the wheels lock up and slide, doing nearly nothing to help slow down the car. When you ease in to the brakes the tires slow down without losing grip, so tires transfer your braking power to the road better. (I’m sure that could be explained better. Hope it makes enough sense to get the message across.)
If you're not used to it, practice in an abandoned parking lot. Learn what it feels like to lose a bit of control, and practice your counter-steering. Obviously never do something dangerous, and don't do anything so crazy it might damage your car. Experience is the best way to learn, and it's best to get that experience when nobody's around and you're not putting the lives of other people in danger.
Recent winter tires perform less well because tire companies are using less natural rubber which got too expensive. The more natural rubber, the more the gum stays soft as temperatures drop, ensuring more grip. Some cheap tires perform well in weather down to 20F but become slippery below that point. More expensive tires should preserve better gum softness in much lower temperatures
Wheel slip also causes a drop in the lateral force that the tire can take. So if you accelerate or brake hardly ( if your car has no ABS ) your car won't turn and will continue to go straight into the nearest tree or supermarket.
As a Canadian, I have a few tips for all you people. 1.Leave four or five car car lengths infront of you on ice or slick conditions. If you have all season, try six car lengths. 2.If you hit a deep snowdrift on the road, expect to turn your wheels as it will turn your vehicle, do not hit the breaks keep a constant speed. 3.If your car starts to shake violently after going through a snow drift, it means there is snow in your rims. So you should pull into a gas station to knock it out. 4. In white out conditions, if you’re on a highway. Slow down to 30-50km/h and put your blinkers on. Do not go over 50km/h you’re an accident waiting to happen if you do. The blinkers are also key for your safety, so people behind you will slow down and not rear end you. 5. Unless you’re on the highway in a potential pile up, leave to the ditch if you can do so safely. Make sure you’re out of the way of any potential cars going into the ditch. Also if you’re in the ditch, don’t leave the car. Just wait for help. 6. Don’t hit the breaks in a front wheel drive car if you’re slipping into something.
Check your windshield washer fluid! The last thing you want is frozen nozzles or no fluid when you need to clear your windshield of snow/slush/“wintry mix”. Check it every so often, especially after long road trips when it is actually snowing. Also, please brush all the snow off your windows before you start driving. Vision prevents accidents, and many states make it your fault in an accident if you can’t see because of snow on your car. Don’t forget the roof, otherwise the first stop sign you come to, all that snow goes FLOOF, right down your windshield.
Good stuff to know. Easiest answer people...get snow/winter tires, and SLOW THE HECK DOWN! Those two things alone may save your life and/or your loved ones. 👍🏼🇨🇦
Living in essentially a "winter city" the generic advice of "slow the heck down" drives me insane. Drive for the conditions, don't just do 20 under the limit because there's a dusting of white in the fields off to the side of the highway. The contention between cars doing the correct speed and some random doofus pulling out "SAFELY" at a low speed causes collisions too.
Erik Tomlinson The slow down was simply a general ‘most don’t drive for the conditions’. When there bad conditions, don’t drive like it’s a race track. That’s all. 👍🏼🇨🇦
I lived in Sweden for 8 years now and a lot of people (at least in Stockholm) drive in the winter like it's a crisp summer day. It amazes me that i feel that i'm more aware of driving with "finesse" than those born and raised here. Very educational, sending it to some of my "Swede" friends
You're purposely ignoring the "guy from New England driving the old Subaru WRX wagon with a massive rear sway bar and an LSD in the rear" method; mainly initiating turn in with the handbrake and steering with the throttle. Be warned however, using this method may result in an angry girlfriend/wife yelling at you from the passenger seat.
Can confirm: did a handbrake turn in the snow last winter and my girlfriend and wife, who were in the car with me, were really mad. Idk if it had much to do with the turn tho.
While an entirely different vehicle, my 91 civic was always fun to throw around in the snow (only time I could...) That said, it never let me down. My 89 accord put me in a ditch driving on ice, but it pulled out on it's own, and got me to work on time, on 3 wheels (popped a tire off when it slid).
Women who never have taken a handbreak turn on the snow, are usually the least capable female drivers around. -- Women who has played on the snow on a parkinglot from time to time, often can take care of themself when the wheel get a small slip!
Living up north for the past 2 years from living down south my whole life I’ve noticed that when it snows and freezes y’all still think it’s NASCAR and you can conquer anything in your Honda Civic. Great video.
ADDING WEIGHT TO THE BED OF A PICKUP HELPED ME GREATLY. I put plastic in the bed and filled halfway with water, let freeze and it doubled my traction on the road. I later also added two sandbags to the floorboard of the rear seats which also increased my traction. Avoiding using the brake on ice is a major plus. SLOW AND STEADY!
stop signs when there is snow on the ground do not apply, keep the foot on the pedal at all times. I like to go with 2G wireless tires, they have super gravitational pull to the ground as they are lined with mercury and have an internal spinning torus that provides extra gravity. Sometimes while driving real fast I feel time warp below my feet, it is real helpful when trying to stop quickly and warp backwards when I need to. Just a few extra gigawatts helps this ability with subatomic nuclear reactors built within my spinning rims.
You went from very basic physics to advanced trigonometry within 5 seconds sir. This is my first winter in the north with snow. Tell my mama I love her
What a coincidence, I just switched to Progressive yesterday. I’m always worried at such changes, but knowing they are supporting your channel, I’m definitely more happy with my choice.
From a media standpoint, they have been incredible to work with! And I certainly can't say the same of some of the others I've worked with haha. Most have been great, but a few outliers in there haha.
I used to take my car to an empty parking lot (like a movie theater) during the day once every winter and practice ice driving. How does the ABS chatter feel in the pedal? How does my car handle a lateral slide, and can I get out of it? etc. Plus: it was a lot of fun.
Best tip for winter driving? Practice!!! Get out on wide road with little traffic (which is easy to find on snow day) and purposely twist steering wheel to make car skid, and practice till correct smoothly. Then practice braking.
The G force your tyres can provide is total G. Be it cornering, acceleration, or braking. If you feel you just can't steer away from something and also not stop in time, let off the brakes, and you have some more cornering ability. Having a racing wheel with force feedback and Beamng is good practice for this. Saved my life a few times
A few years back, I had a chance to take a 1-day class on this topic. In it, they covered the advantages of modern ABS with the traction controls on the cars from one specific manufacturer and did so by turning on and off the ABS and traction control. The class was at their proving grounds and it took place on a large area that they had sprayed with water just before a freeze. Fortunately (it made the class better) it snowed on top of the ice. I don't want to make a misleading mistake on describing what I learned but, if you can, it would be good to describe best techniques for driving with and without traction controls and ABS. The experiences were very different.
SE Michigan Andy I’ve been planning on doing a video on ABS in snow... I did tests about 10yrs ago & could stop 30-40% faster without ABS, I really detest ABS for winter driving. Traction control is fine for ice but ends up getting you stuck if you’re driving in deep snow.
What I say slow and steady wins the race in snow! You four wheel drives in Northern VA sure you can get up to speed but when the snow come down turning a corner at speed in snow you will slide into the ditch because you can’t stop as easy can you!
"driving in the dry, you probably leave 3-4 seconds to the car in front of you"...Really?? I'm the only person I know who does this and almost everyone around me loses their minds driving angrily around me. I have trouble believing you do this and you think "most people" would do this. I'm lucky if I ever see someone leaving a 2-second gap in front of them.
Snowy roads have 2 effects other: if the snow is soft and really thick then it is usually beneficial to turn of traction control. In practice it turns out if you get stuck in the snow with traction control on sometimes you can get unstuck and going again by just flooring the pedal and spitting all the snow away. It might sound odd but I've seen tests where it works and I've tried it out myself during last winter. Another effect: in slippery environments using the dynamic friction can be more effective to push you forwards than static friction. On a slippery road both the static and dynamic friction coefficient are low, so it doesn't take much efford to let the wheels spin at high speeds. Look, there is a reason why rally cars (sometimes) drift during turns, there is a reason why Russian and Skandinavian racers drift on ice. On ice you can take a turn faster sideways than forward. Anyways, every snow drifter uses winter tires, so there is no excuse for not buying proper winter tires. And obviously if you're not good at drifting and/or you don't know what's ahead of you driving slowly is obviously safer. And i have to admit, it's quite hard to brake your car on ice with dynamic friction, you can't easily put it in reverse to floor the throttle.
This and your tire comparison video are great. However, I wish you would include studded snows in your discussions. Yes, they make noise and can decrease traction on dry roads, but they can be the difference between life and death in severe winter conditions. I have found myself on several occasions being the only car on stretches of I-70 in Colorado not spinning off the side of the road thanks to my studded snows. I have had several instances where I avoided multi-car pile-ups, steering around the disable vehicles like they were slalom gates.
Being from Minnesota, winter driving doesn't always have to do with snow on the ground. Visibility is also a major factor. Just don't go any faster than road conditions feel safe (ie don't be doing 55mph when there's a heavy snowfall).
Just because you can go, does not mean you can stop. Only go whatever slow speed you can get stopped from. I have driven successfully on slick ice....because I went painfully slow...but did not skid.
Just a protip from someone who used to drive professionally year round in the north. After it snows go find a nice secluded open parking lot and just learn how ur car handles when it has no grip. Im not saying go do a bunch of donuts but learn to handle when theres no grip
I drive an eighteen wheeler. People aren't aware of how much stopping distance we need already, and inclimate weather amplifies this by magnitudes. Four-wheelers like to cut into my six second forward space leaving one second between us all the time, even in the rain. Worse in wind and/or snow.
This needs to include a piece about skid control and recovery and the physics behind it.... If you drive in bad weather, you will encounter a skid of least one point in time and the secret is recovering from it safely....yes you can recover from a skid even in a curve
Drove a taxi in Reno/Tahoe for twenty years. First and foremost, slow down. Second, don't tailgate. Third, practice, practice, practice. I drove 50 hours a week and got very good at it. Some snow is easy to drive on, some will be almost impossible.
You could make a followup video about the traction circles in snow and icy conditions with different tire types (Summer, all-seasons, all-weathers, winters, and studded winter tires). That could be an interesting video for those of us living in colder climates.
Nothing here is said about those wide stance tires verses skinny pizza cutter tires...there is a big difference between these tires in the rain and snow
I’d watch that. He could also do a section on using manual shift to manage your braking in low traction conditions. And then best snow hoon setup and characteristics.
Now for 'Driving in the Snow part 2: Rally Edition'. Traction circles being what they are on gravel, snow, etc., how do rally cars go so fast around corners? How do the friction circles of their gravel/snow tires compare to winter tires used by everyday people? I see lots of whiteboards in the future if you make this one....
I had to drive in the snow in a '94 Trans Am GT with performance tires. THAT was an experience! 320 lb/ft of torque in a 3000 lb car, with no hope of "biting" the snow...but boy did she glide gracefully at a diagonal.
"You also want to be smooth & slow with your driving input" Pff.. I'm pretty sure "sideways" is the only way to corner in snow with AWD. Can't break loose unexpectedly if you're already in a controlled slide, right?
As a Canadian, I am both delighted and triggered that you chose this topic. However, winter tires are soft and piles of snow is not as common on roads as ICE.... which is why you need soft tires, preferably with studs. Next video -- tire comparison! Stopping on ice! Threshold braking Vs. ABS! Normal tire pressure Vs. 10% below recommended pressure!
What about static vs dynamic friction? Water in all its form will have very low dynamic friction. Meaning, what you said is true till you break that static friction barrier and start sliding but then during sliding the behavior is worse than 0.7/0.3 etc. You get a false feeling that you can go half the dry speed because thats where you start sliding but in case you do start sliding you wont make it
Drove south on 395 to so cal a few years ago in a bit of dump of snow in our 2011 Optima LX with A/S tires...kept going passed the "chains required" signs where the plowing had stopped and now were making our own tracks for maybe 35 miles...careful throttle aps and gentle braking got us thru!!! We arrived in La Habra feeling victorious and exhausted!!
Also, if you know you are going to roads that may be in bad condition: Shovel and a pack of gravel ain't a bad idea. Rough cat litter is also a very good one to use since it serves a double duty of removing humidity from the inside of your car. Just not used cat litter :D
It would be nice to see more detail about how acceleration/braking *during* cornering affects the lateral grip, as well as the particular forces experienced by the front and rear tires when taking longitudinal acceleration into account. There's a big difference between how FWD/RWD/AWD cars behave in low traction conditions.
Grew up in the Bay Area. Was stationed in Georgia for a few years and now I’m moving to Colorado Springs. Trying to learn everything I can about living in snow lol. My years of driving like a grandma have finally paid off😎
I have a Series 3 Land Rover on military tyres. In fresh snow its just the best fun and leaves modern SUVs behind, on ice its a whole lot less so and can be quite nasty. No anti-lock, drum brakes, no power steering, useless heater, no automatic gearbox, no electronic traction control, no electronics at all in fact...........just you, four gearsticks and 2.5 tons of English iron. I love it.
Good video Matt. :) The rule of thumb for following distance I've always preferred is "1 second per 10 miles (16 km) per hour." That's the one my driving instructor taught me when I was a kid. First, yes that's linear, but it works alright for most vehicles at most road speeds without having to do exponential equations in your head while driving. Second, yes that's a long way (528 feet or 0.1 miles @ 60 mph -or- 161 m @ 97 km/h.) Reaction time will account for between 62 and 264 feet (19-80 m) of that depending on the driver and their state of awareness or distraction. A cursory review of the relevant studies show the best reaction time is around 0.7 seconds to begin braking, but when allowing for distractions or more relaxed awareness or individual variance, that number is reported as much as 3 seconds. At our example highway speeds, that leaves 265-466 feet (80-142 m) for the vehicle to stop once you start applying brakes. Looking at the chart Matt showed, that is within the stopping distance of most vehicles on wet or dry roads, but not snow unless you're hyper-aware and have the fastest of reflexes, and definitely not on the ice at all. Sure, if you try leaving that much following distance ahead of you in Los Angeles you'll piss everyone off and end up constantly having to slow down to increase distance as people move in front of you. It will be effectively impossible and an exercise in frustration for you and everyone around you. Of course, traffic actually moving at 60 mph in LA would be a miracle unto itself. :p Shorter following distance rules of thumb make allowances for a lot of assumptions like the lead vehicle taking some distance to gradually reduce speed as well, or escape routes to the shoulder and so on. After seeing the results of a vehicle with a suspension failure drop onto its frame on the highway, I feel safer not relying on allowances. Likewise, I've seen loads fall out the back of trucks onto the road countless times. You're following a vehicle ahead around a bend and the guy in front of you runs head first into a fallen tree across the road. You name it. The _1 sec per 10 mph_ rule works on the "A stationary concrete barricade suddenly appears where the rear bumper of the lead vehicle is" assumption and I find driving a lot less stressful. A lot of that comes down to personal preference as much as physics I suppose.
*AND REMEMBER AWD AND 4X4 ONLY HELP YOU START MOVING. IT DOES NOT HELP YOU STOP AT ALL. ONLY A SNOW TIRE CAN HELP YOU STOP ON SNOW. I SEE TRUCKS ALL THE TIME GETTING MESSED UP WHEN IT COMES TIME TO BRAKE* i put snow tires on my focus st i also have a 4x4 mini pickup truck we use to cart around tires and parts. i tested both cars on snow 0mph-35mph-0mph so like, start get to 35mph then stop. the 4x4 pickup truck lost with all weather tires to a fwd snow tired car, it lost by around 2-4 seconds it used to be in my phones notepad but i got a new phone
I'd like to see the math behind your calculations. What value did you use for the coefficient of kinetic friction? Was the calculated stopping distance based off of an average value of mass of a modern car?
In my part of the world (inland northwest) it seems that Subarus are usually the first ones in the ditch on a snowy day. Not because they aren't good in the snow, but because the drivers are overconfident and/or don't think they need good tires.
I grew up in Winnipeg where winters are quite... extreme. But because of that I've always had a massive love for driving in snow, even in the rear wheel drive no-abs no-traction control (or as I like to say 'MK1 abs and traction control' aka my foot) old American boats I typically drive. I like to say driving in snow give you the feel of really really fast but you don't even have to break the speed limit. Great video though! Gave me some new ways of thinking of certain things while driving in those sorts of conditions.
Excellent video, but I think there is one important fact that should have been added at around 3:56 or so...static and kinetic friction. Static friction is generally higher than kinetic friction. Therefore, when you make a sudden turn and break the static friction, you slide out of control much easier because it is more difficult to regain that static friction when relying on kinetic friction to do so. The difference between static and kinetic friction is much less on dry pavement than it is on wet, snow, and ice.
You didn't mention anything about static vs. kinetic friction... in other words, once you lose traction, it's really hard to get it back in the winter.
Just about to start my new job!delivering three beautiful expensive motorcycles in a big van,400 miles to go!in the snow!!this video helped loads!and gave me the confidence to start my day positive!! Thank you young man!(you can teach a old dog new tricks!I'm 58!)😁👍
Before the advent of ABS brakes, I learned in my manual transmission 1986 GMC Sierra would stop quite quickly using down shifting to 1st gear. I tried the same thing with my automatic transmission cars and that also worked.
Some very good salient points. I’ve always found that ‘testing’ the conditions in your car when you first start out is extremely helpful. Find a relatively secluded spot and try some low speed ‘panic’ maneuvers that won’t cause you to hit anything. That way, when you’re out on the road you’ll understand how your particular vehicle will react in those particular conditions. Different surfaces cause dramatically different reactions for your cars steering and braking…!
Hey Jason, i really don't want to make you uncomfortable, your videos are awesome. But i have to tell you that your videos are very good in helping people to fall asleep. You have a nice and soft voice and speak in a way that it sounds like an awesome bedtime story:D (trust me, it happened to me more than once):D But your content is always extremely good! Keep up the work.
I live in Canada where we have lots of snow. I agree to keep momentum in snow if you can. When I drive in a pickup I like to have some weight over the drive wheels. In addition I find front wheel drive cars are better than rear wheel drive. I drive an all wheel drive SUV with ABS and studded Snow tires which give max traction and traction control. Can you give some facts about snow tire, studs. Plus that winter tire are a softer rubber in the cold than all season/ summer tire ? . And have you or can you talk about traction control like my SUV has ? Thank you, have a nice day.
Tire studs are supposed to be great for snow and ice especially but reduce your grip a little on dry pavement in the cold, because there's less rubber and metal isn't as grippy obviously. Also they're noisy, never tried them myself, I believe in southern ontario here, studded tires are not allowed.
Ben , I live in Newfoundland where studs are allowed. My wife and I both have studded tires and find it makes a big difference. A down side to studs is that it wears out the pavement fast than no studded tires.
G circle, easy and light on the steering wheel and pedals - you just explained part of racing drivers science :) Because you know - racing is about always staying right on the edge of the G circle and that's how you drive on that edge - with no sudden motions with the controls. So therefore, by lowering the G circle's radius, snow simply makes everyone a racer!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Also, for the love of god, don't hit the brakes going around corners in the snow and ice. If you need to slow down, do it BEFORE you turn. Every winter in Michigan I'd see dozens of people fail at this and end up spinning out into a ditch or the guardrail.
Jim Pekarek Yeah he totally missed explaining why it’s a circle and not a square. The tradeoff between cornering and braking. You can do one, or the other, or a little teensy bit of both. But you can’t have all of both at the same time.
Yeah if I realize I'm going too fast, it's simple enough to threshold brake hard right to the limit on a dry patch rather than do some braking later in the turn. It has saved me I believe once or twice in harsh Vermont winter storm conditions.
I can’t believe this wasn’t on our driving test. I had no idea of this concept until I spun out going extremely slow in sleet. Now I do this even in dry environments to maintain good muscle memory.
@@ShelterDogs On snow and ice I usually out drive the 4X4s in a FWD sedan. Most people do not know how to drive.
Makes it interesting every year.... I just tell people its like Mario cart. Ice means you slide.
Where can I buy larger traction circles for my car?
The local tire shop! Or online haha. How many times have I talked about tires? They're the best. No mod will ever come close for the money!
They're the best! They're the best! They're number one!
Good tyre.
Download it
It’s in your local autozone next to the blinker fluid
1. Put it in 1st
2. Rev up to Redline
3. Release clutch
4. POWAAAAHHHH
Great way to temporarily melt the snow under your tires and turn it into ice when it re-freezes while the snow in front builds up, making you more stuck.
@@logicalfundy
It's a joke, damn.
best comment
5. WHEELSPIN!
You clearly think horsepower is measured by the size of your muffler.
Enjoy the ditch or the morgue.
In Sweden we get to spend a few hours driving on ice to try stopping, swerving etc to get a feeling for how the car reacts in slippery conditions aswell as some theory about it.
You wont get a license here unless you do this course.
Here in Louisiana we freak out and shut down the state when it gets below 40 degrees F.
Same in Finland although you can complete this thing in a simulator.
Didn’t know that! In Canada every province sets its own requirements, and only a few require winter tires. There’s basically the minimum US licensing approach here unfortunately and it’s only small population which keeps things sane for many (rural) areas of the country. The cities are bad (both Montréal and Toronto, I live in one of them) and poor driver education / basically no requirements, costs us a lot of lives unnecessarily here.
@@acchaladka We are required by law to use winter tires between december 1st and march 31st, and are allowed to use them between october 1st and april 15th, or if its slippery/snowy conditions. If you dont use winter tires and cause an accident you can be charged with reckless driving, even on a date when winter tires arent required by law but its snowy or icey, lets say spring stays for a while and its still snowy april 20th, had a case of that where I live this spring actually.
If you search for "Halkbana" on youtube you can see the course we are obliged to take to get our license. If its summer its done on alot of water or a skid construction on the car that lifts it so traction becomes close to driving on ice, during winter its done on ice.
Its a really good course, i drove my first winter in a RWD Volvo 940 with a locking diff and without traction control etc, made it through one damn hard winter without even being close to crashing thanks to the knowledge etc I got at that course xD
Wiikendz Sounds like a fun training, I’ll look it up, thanks. Though winter tires are mandatory between Nov 15 and April 15 for us here in the province of Québec, it’s important to avoid driving during the first real winter storm as everyone seems to forget how to drive in snow that day and has to relearn. Most of your population seems to live south where there’s more ice so I imagine it’s more difficult there than here where temps hit winter and hover between minus ten and minus forty for basically the whole season. We just have snow driving for six months, with relatively little ice. I really like the idea of charging people with reckless driving for not having appropriate tires.
Don't assume the person in front of you has the same breaking ability. You might be on ice, but they may hit a dry patch and stop on a dime. Opposite is true. If you stop unexpectedly fast, make sure the person behind you isn't about to ram you. If you can, move a bit ahead, allowing them to get to the dry patch.
I haven’t seen a car break on dry pavement, unless the driver crashed it, at which point it’s very broken.
Or better yet, stay off the roads until spring.
@@steveolive9991 yeah that's totally realistic 👌 lmao
@@hunnitmanjuuve2404 In the South, they stay off the roads when there is snow and/or ice UNTIL it melts.
@@steveolive9991 sure
Other points from a Canadian:
- clearance between bottom of vehicle and the ground sometimes matters, but that's a vehicle decision more than a driving decision
- adding weight to the vehicle (by having more stuff in it, for instance) can enlarge the traction circle...not sure by how much though
- intersections where cars must stop tend to develop ice because exhaust gases melt snow, which then refreezes
Yes.... and that melting is also caused by temperature increasing on spots where breaking/accelerating friction is at maximum level...
ah yes the weight - 90 degree turn after a downhill section covered in ice - the s3's and e36 made it - ranger raptor ended up in the ditch
Greetings from Finland. I would say one thing you should do is lose the traction on purpose. Not to crash into something, but to test the grip level SAFELY. So maybe you gain that knowledge already trying to leave your parking spot and having a little wheel spin non-purpously. But if you don't I'd suggest to get some momentum on the road and at a safe place break until you lock the tires. You will get a feel on HOW slippery the road is. The funny thing is that while dry and wet road surfaces have pretty constant amounts of traction, in snow the traction may vary wildly so you need to test it. Also practice to lose the control. This needs to be done also safely and in closed area for it to be legal (or in a parking lot and hope that cops won't see you). It's important to know how it feels when you lose the control and to learn to get it back (counter steering etc). This also helps not to panic if it happens for real. Pro tips: as in the video, slow smooth inputs and especially when accelerating from full stop short shift to lower the torque; remember that the traction may vary a lot also locally (within meters); and remember that someone else might not be expert in snow so keep your distance to other drivers.
The way I test it is by giving myself far more than enough distance from the next car at the coming traffic light, then brake hard. That gives me an idea of stopping distance at any given day. The snow level can vary from one day to the next, sometimes it changes by the hour.
I did this as a young man and it has helped me immeasurably. Finding out how your car will respond in different adverse conditions will help you when actually on the road. Glad to see/hear someone else besides me has figured this little technique out !… Bravo
When I had just got my drivers license and it was winter I was designated driver for the night in a rear wheel drive Opel Record. After dropping of the passengers I found a empty parking lot and started playing around drifting for the first time in a real car having so much fun learning how to handle rear wheel drive on ice and snow. It was fun until the police arrived... They was not happy about me drifting but I told them the truth that I was learning how to drive rear wheel drive and they accepted that explanation and did not give me a ticket, just a warning to not do that anymore.
Sadly I was forced to drive a wrong wheel drive car for 8 years before I got rid of it and bought a Ascona B with rear wheel drive and later a MB 190E. I absolutely hate front wheel drive... 4wd is ok if it has rear wheel drive bias.
Very good recommendation I do this all the time. I apply the brakes till they lock up and ABS is engaged. Then I determine where my threshold breaking is before ABS is engaged. This allows me to determine the limit. I do also have 20 years experience, driving rally cars and driving in snow is my favorite. Everybody should do this in changing road conditions in a safe spot with no traffic around.
One thing you didn't mention -- if you have, say, 0.3G of grip in snow, that's a *total* amount of grip available to you. It is *split* between acceleration/deceleration and cornering. If you are *only* cornering -- with absolutely *no* acceleration or braking, then and only then do you get that full 0.3G to help you make that turn. If you are accelerating or braking *at all,* then your cornering grip is reduced by however much grip is being used by that acceleration or braking.
It's why anti-lock brakes make you feel like you're "speeding up" when you turn while braking hard. The system is calibrated to automatically assume steering is more important than braking, so it reduces braking force to let the steering happen without sliding or locking up the wheels.
Excellent explanation!
Thabk you!
I would love to see your opinion on driving a Semi with trailer!?
Yes. Cornering lowers grip, acceleration and deceleration lowers rip, both of these together lowers grip even more.
Definitely. I've enjoyed fast driving and long ago got into the habit of doing most braking before entering corner with minimal brake force. Yes, there's trail braking but more generally.
I wonder why that important thing didnt exist on this video.. That is the g-force grip circle all about. You dont need circle if talking two directions separetely as he did.. You cant seperate those in real life though.. Can abc brakes drop braking power to allow some force to steering also? Its complicate thing becouse rolling tire gets better friction than sliding tire but still you cant use maximum rolling friction to get some turning grip also.
All us Gulf Coast residents thank you for this glimpse into a totally alien environment.
Ah saw snow once on TEE VEE.
There's a great _King of the Hill_ episode about it snowing in Texas. This comment made me think of it.
We also get to see steel on the car magically turn to dust because of the salt on the roads. Brake lines get gaping holes! You have to experience that!
Please wash your undercarriage more.
paulparoma -- it does snow in Houston but it almost never sticks. 1988-1989 and 1960-1961 were exceptions.
Tips from a snow driver: Don't drive on old winter tires. Switch every fourth season, even if the tires have been in storage most of the time. (The tire hardens over time, which reduces your grip)
Driving on new studded tires? Drive slow the first 200 miles or so. No hard breaking, hard accelerations or turns. The studs may not set in a right angled position if you drive them too hard when "breaking them in".
Check your wear pattern regularly. You should have a minimum of 3-4mm. Don't wear the tires down to the minimum markings.
If the roads are icy - don't trust the tires. Just drive really really carefully. Even if you're on studded tires. If your tires aren't studded - use an alternative form of transportation if you can. Especially if you're not comfortable driving in hazardous winter conditions. Where I live, winter lasts for about half a year. I drive like a priest when it is icy. The stopping distance is ridiculous, even at very low speeds.
Four wheel drive doesn't help at all when it comes to stopping distance. You have to be equally careful in a 4wd, rwd or fwd.
I switch every two seasons
Where do you live? Canada?
@@raveenachopra5081 Oregon
I drove on the same cheap Walmart winter tires for 14 years. They lasted 4 separate cars. I only replaced them because they leaked air after being patched multiple times. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing what I did, but those tires lasted a lot longer than anyone expected.
@@shawn576 ??? Fatherless activities??
This video should be mandatory to watch for all the Californians moving to Colorado.
I remember a time in the SF area and it snowed a light trace, just enough to stick on the grass beside the road. The locals there were so fearful of it they slowed freeway traffic down to 20 mph. The road was wet but no snow or ice on it.
Californians should not be allowed out of California.
@@rich7447 Get lost.
I live in California and it snows pretty bad where I’m from. AWD is required as we often have snow every few days for about 4-5 months
I live in a college town built on several hills where it snows a lot. People come from all over the world to go to school here. College age kids from hot places that never get snow driving things like mustangs and fancy cars their rich parents bought them. Winter is fun here...
I remember driving in the mountains in British Columbia early in the morning when it was dark out. There was ice and blowing snow and I was going 60 km/h then some pickup truck passed me then further up the road he slipped around a bend and had crashed. People really just need to slowdown in winter. Even having a 4x4 with winter tires and ground clearance you can still crash trying to go fast.
Maybe you will have to leave earlier for work. Maybe you might be late. But it is better than getting killed over being inpatient.
Prairielander the increased ground clearance of douchebags in lifted trucks actually decreases their traction as there is a higher center of mass so therefore a longer lever arm of the lateral G force around a turn (easier to tip over) which unweights the inside tires and increase the G force to the putter tires making them slide out. I used to get passed by those idiots in lifted trucks driving to school in my rear wheel drive Volvo and almost every time I’d come around a certain flat corner and they’d be in the ditch; I’d just honk and 🤙🏻
@@Natedoc808 Kids! 35 years driving in the Rockies, NE BC and NW Alberta. Its sick the number of cars exit the road in icy conditions tail first.
The thing the folks in 4WD/AWD vehicles seem to forget is _every_ car has 4-wheel braking, so when it comes to stopping, you aren’t really any better off. If the FWD car ahead of you couldn’t stop due to road conditions, you probably can’t stop any shorter.
I see so many folks in 4WD trucks and SUVs who don’t leave extra follow distance in winter because they have 4WD and think they don’t need to. And then they end up rear-ending someone else as a result. Or, best case scenario, end up in a ditch or hitting something on the side of the road in their attempts to not rear-end someone (when they realize in time that they’re not going to be able to stop and try to swerve instead).
Who else in Texas is watching for tomorrow?
Bruh 😂
yes bro 😂😂🤟
You read my mind. Never thought I'd see it this cold in SA
Lmao, Montgomery County rep right here
Louisiana lol
It's simple you don't need to be a engineer to figure out how to drive on snow
SLOW DOWN
GET OFF YOUR PHONE
PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD
Sincerely a concerned Professional Truck Driver
@Night Hawk ew
Had a truck pass me over while a I was driving at 60 miles an hour during a snow storm 😐
You’re right
One of the best pieces of advice I got for winter driving was from my grandfather - 'drive like there's a glass of fine wine on the bonnet' - you're gonna be careful with that bugger! Accelerating, braking & cornering.
In my case, the phrasing would be "drive like there's a crate of hazardous chemicals in your trunk" -- but the advice would still be the same!
And when you get set of nice expensive studded tyres drift only when there isn't spots with out snow :D Otherwise you are going to destroy your tires quite fast. Studless tyres are also good option for enjoying winter with out fearing so much destroying your tires but they are useless on frozen lakes so if you want to drift on those you need studded tyres. Also remember to switch your tyres around every year so they wear evenly and you get more balanced grip (or lack of it :D)
And most importantly don't buy boring fwd car!
Ha, wonderful to have you here on the channel! Love your videos!
Kind of not so useful advice -- very few people are buying studded tyres and even when people live in the mountains, or Snow belt , they still believe in the nonsense "all season tires " and refuse to "....waste money for snow tires..."
+Guergui Stoyanov Here in Finland probably 70% use studded tyres and 25% good studless winter tyres for 3-6 months every winter so at least places like northern Europe and norther parts of America it's "useful advice" :D
+Engineering Explained Thanks! I have been watching your channel also pretty long, you have good and well made videos. I have to also mention that I have also S2000 :D I bought it about 3 years ago and it has been great car!
If I'm correct, some ice racing courses requires a roll cage if racing with studded tires. Only other downside is that (cheap) studded tires tends to suck at snow traction compared to studless. Studded tires works best on smooth ice. Otherwise, studless gets the best traction. Think about the road conditions before deciding on a tire.
4:12 "you may drive with 3-4 seconds" i instantly remembered my daily commute when I sometimes leave less than 2 seconds and every driver behind me thinks it's a great idea to overtake and cut me off. In any condition. Lovely.
Jarek Pszuk Agreed. It's the lack of OTHER DRIVERS attention and ability, that's impossible to control, no matter how much driving skill and experience you might have.
California drivers in a nutshell... who cares if the gap is actually big enough? (Also, turn signals are apparently overrated.)
Yep. Other people's stupidity basically make front and rear cameras a necessity.
Acutally, coming from a country where you get proper driving lessons, it's 2 seconds minimum. (By law and by mathematics)
Let's see. 50 kph, ~14 mps... 2 seconds sound about right for novice drivers to be on the safe side. 3-4 sec would be an overkill. No one leaves 50 meter gap in a big city :)
Thank you for this. I am a child of the north - grew up in North Dakota just south of Winnipeg Manitoba Canada. Figure skating coach commuted down from Canada to coach our club. When I go to Tahoe to ski sometimes I stop and help foreign visitors with snow chains.
Jason: You can't get stuck if you don't stop. *Taps forehead*
Depending on the depth of the snow, I have seen vehicles stopped in deep snow where the snow actually lifted the car of the road.
Alas, how many times (under all kinds of scenarios and situations) have I said to the clueless dumbf--- ahead of me, "Please keep going. Please keep going. *DAMN you. Keep going.* " Even for a yellow light. Clueless dumbf---s :(
@@Bill_Woo yup.
If you run into a large pile of Snow, trust me, you sure can get stuck - been there/done that!
If you get stuck you weren't going fast enough. :P
Jokes aside don't try to smash through snow banks. Snow is hard so is ice but hardest of all is the buried Mercedes.
I searched “snow falling night time” & RUclips returned this in the results… very educational! Thank you for sharing.
please let people know that having AWD or 4x4 does not make you much safer when comes to stopping in winter.
@Future Hindsight but the car is heavier so u have more energy to loose. On the third hand... you should have a bit more grip... so id say it depends...
@Future Hindsight cmon... So there must b something wrong with this 2wd, either ABS broken or brake force corrector. Now there are also other factors involved like kinda of tranmission not to mention road state.
Future Hindsight- funny my rears lock up first. and if you know how to drive in snow you only use 4x4 when your stuck.
@@daltonbrink6336 so again... Do you have ABS? To be honest.... If you really can drive 2wd is enough for the most situations, even in quite steep moutains 😁.
I have an Audi with Quattro awd and i can tell you that thing is a tank. Stops much better than 2 wheel drive counterparts.
As a professional driver with a zero crash record of many years I am impressed with your concise and easy to understand tutorial.
Who searched this up out of boredom because you can’t leave the house 😂
Me! Austin, TX 🤪
@@sonetriyamayfueld3365 😂😂
Me 🤦♀️🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Jackson Mississippi
Lmao are you in Texas???!!
I manage a group of drivers for my Company's pharmacy. I have recently experienced 4 car accidents this Winter Season 2018 - 2019, and I have to say; this video has helped tremendously in my employees understanding the science of Winter driving profoundly. Thank you for putting this together!
That Forza telemetry now makes sense, thanks!
Nice explanation of winter driving. Living in Wisconsin I got my winter driving skills by doing donuts on frozen lakes or snow covered parking lots.
In Finland we used to have ice tracks where people could learn to drive on slippery surface, but since EU join they are prohibited for environmental reasons. Many want them back for everyone's safety. Now many train skills without a track and on unsafe ice or on public roads without permission.
EU is good because I can spend time in your country. EU is bad because I'll have to go on open roads. :(
Messing around in snow covered parking lots is a great way to practice. I also drive around my neighborhood and powerslide around corners.
Mmmmm... Donuts. 😁
@@ThePigbreeder what environmental impacts are they trying to reduce? Seems like a very silly decision.
This reminds me of a time I was going over the mountain into Nevada to visit my father in the winter time. My mother asked me if I knew how to drive in the snow. I responded with " Yeah sideways."
*DiRTRally players*
wow so witty
I would have never known I have less traction on ice than dry pavement without watching this video. Thank You!
I like the fact that someone explaining grip in the snow drives a Subaru so he does not have an issue with driving in snow :)
Drive like you have grandma's soup in a big pot in your trunk and if you spill it, you'll pay 5k for it (co payment to fix a car)
5k copay? Whos your insurance company? Lol
@@joeray5394 it was an exaggeration to help dramatization lol
@@joeray5394 the general
Excellent tip! In fact, I’ll use coffee for that... I’ll just get a big full cup of coffee and drive on snow... If I make it to the destination I get to drink the coffee... hahah Love it!
Thanks for the info about traction circles. I’d never seen it that way.
And two thumbs up for mentioning that you need to ease in to the acceleration and braking. That is something everyone needs to understand. I only wish you had spent a few more moments to emphasize that a bit more.
I may be wrong, but I think that is what most people fail to understand. You can’t just stomp on your brakes in the snow or ice. Your need to ease in to it or you’ll have less braking power and less control.
When you stomp on the brakes in poor traction conditions the wheels lock up and slide, doing nearly nothing to help slow down the car. When you ease in to the brakes the tires slow down without losing grip, so tires transfer your braking power to the road better. (I’m sure that could be explained better. Hope it makes enough sense to get the message across.)
If you're not used to it, practice in an abandoned parking lot. Learn what it feels like to lose a bit of control, and practice your counter-steering. Obviously never do something dangerous, and don't do anything so crazy it might damage your car. Experience is the best way to learn, and it's best to get that experience when nobody's around and you're not putting the lives of other people in danger.
Recent winter tires perform less well because tire companies are using less natural rubber which got too expensive. The more natural rubber, the more the gum stays soft as temperatures drop, ensuring more grip. Some cheap tires perform well in weather down to 20F but become slippery below that point. More expensive tires should preserve better gum softness in much lower temperatures
Wheel slip also causes a drop in the lateral force that the tire can take. So if you accelerate or brake hardly ( if your car has no ABS ) your car won't turn and will continue to go straight into the nearest tree or supermarket.
Who searched this up cause you live in Texas and it’s snowing rn like never before 🥴?
😂😂🙋🏼♀️
Noobs lol
Me I’ve got to work today
As a Canadian, I have a few tips for all you people.
1.Leave four or five car car lengths infront of you on ice or slick conditions. If you have all season, try six car lengths.
2.If you hit a deep snowdrift on the road, expect to turn your wheels as it will turn your vehicle, do not hit the breaks keep a constant speed. 3.If your car starts to shake violently after going through a snow drift, it means there is snow in your rims. So you should pull into a gas station to knock it out.
4. In white out conditions, if you’re on a highway. Slow down to 30-50km/h and put your blinkers on. Do not go over 50km/h you’re an accident waiting to happen if you do. The blinkers are also key for your safety, so people behind you will slow down and not rear end you.
5. Unless you’re on the highway in a potential pile up, leave to the ditch if you can do so safely. Make sure you’re out of the way of any potential cars going into the ditch. Also if you’re in the ditch, don’t leave the car. Just wait for help.
6. Don’t hit the breaks in a front wheel drive car if you’re slipping into something.
How much is that in mp/h (live in the U.S)
@@jocg933 to be honest I can’t even remember the conversation maths.
@@jocg933 50 km/h = ~30 mph
I bet you're gonna get a million more views now that the entire state of Texas is getting snow
San Antonio Texas. The snow came last night
And Tennessee 😂 someone already got stuck. I ain’t seen snow like this in years
@Esco G same lol it’s wild. Someone got stuck in my apartment driveway. 😂
I got my first snow & ice driving experience the last couple days and made it safely thanks to the tips in the video
Check your windshield washer fluid! The last thing you want is frozen nozzles or no fluid when you need to clear your windshield of snow/slush/“wintry mix”. Check it every so often, especially after long road trips when it is actually snowing.
Also, please brush all the snow off your windows before you start driving. Vision prevents accidents, and many states make it your fault in an accident if you can’t see because of snow on your car. Don’t forget the roof, otherwise the first stop sign you come to, all that snow goes FLOOF, right down your windshield.
Good stuff to know.
Easiest answer people...get snow/winter tires, and SLOW THE HECK DOWN! Those two things alone may save your life and/or your loved ones.
👍🏼🇨🇦
Living in essentially a "winter city" the generic advice of "slow the heck down" drives me insane. Drive for the conditions, don't just do 20 under the limit because there's a dusting of white in the fields off to the side of the highway. The contention between cars doing the correct speed and some random doofus pulling out "SAFELY" at a low speed causes collisions too.
Erik Tomlinson The slow down was simply a general ‘most don’t drive for the conditions’. When there bad conditions, don’t drive like it’s a race track. That’s all. 👍🏼🇨🇦
Never seen someone with such a close last name to me!
I lived in Sweden for 8 years now and a lot of people (at least in Stockholm) drive in the winter like it's a crisp summer day. It amazes me that i feel that i'm more aware of driving with "finesse" than those born and raised here. Very educational, sending it to some of my "Swede" friends
Awesome! Just visited Stockholm recently, it's a beautiful city!
@@EngineeringExplained Yeah i love it here. Missed the chance to "stalk" you guys🤣🤣🤣, work got in the way
Yeah, ask any of us that come from the northern side and we'll diss the southerners harshly. For a reason.
You're purposely ignoring the "guy from New England driving the old Subaru WRX wagon with a massive rear sway bar and an LSD in the rear" method; mainly initiating turn in with the handbrake and steering with the throttle. Be warned however, using this method may result in an angry girlfriend/wife yelling at you from the passenger seat.
Can confirm: did a handbrake turn in the snow last winter and my girlfriend and wife, who were in the car with me, were really mad. Idk if it had much to do with the turn tho.
Won't have problems if there aren't a gf or wife to deal with.
While an entirely different vehicle, my 91 civic was always fun to throw around in the snow (only time I could...)
That said, it never let me down.
My 89 accord put me in a ditch driving on ice, but it pulled out on it's own, and got me to work on time, on 3 wheels (popped a tire off when it slid).
Women who never have taken a handbreak turn on the snow, are usually the least capable female drivers around. -- Women who has played on the snow on a parkinglot from time to time, often can take care of themself when the wheel get a small slip!
.Did this just today in order to demonstrate to my "passenger" how to counter act oversteer or a rear end skid.... Guess what? I Got yelled at.
Living up north for the past 2 years from living down south my whole life I’ve noticed that when it snows and freezes y’all still think it’s NASCAR and you can conquer anything in your Honda Civic. Great video.
Your videos are second to none. Thanks a bunch for this chanel.
Very kind words, thank you!! 🙏
ADDING WEIGHT TO THE BED OF A PICKUP HELPED ME GREATLY. I put plastic in the bed and filled halfway with water, let freeze and it doubled my traction on the road. I later also added two sandbags to the floorboard of the rear seats which also increased my traction. Avoiding using the brake on ice is a major plus. SLOW AND STEADY!
stop signs when there is snow on the ground do not apply, keep the foot on the pedal at all times. I like to go with 2G wireless tires, they have super gravitational pull to the ground as they are lined with mercury and have an internal spinning torus that provides extra gravity. Sometimes while driving real fast I feel time warp below my feet, it is real helpful when trying to stop quickly and warp backwards when I need to. Just a few extra gigawatts helps this ability with subatomic nuclear reactors built within my spinning rims.
You went from very basic physics to advanced trigonometry within 5 seconds sir. This is my first winter in the north with snow. Tell my mama I love her
What a coincidence, I just switched to Progressive yesterday. I’m always worried at such changes, but knowing they are supporting your channel, I’m definitely more happy with my choice.
From a media standpoint, they have been incredible to work with! And I certainly can't say the same of some of the others I've worked with haha. Most have been great, but a few outliers in there haha.
In short: slow down, keep tripple distance, no tailgating, no sharp turning. Thanks, great clear video 👏👏👏👏
I used to take my car to an empty parking lot (like a movie theater) during the day once every winter and practice ice driving. How does the ABS chatter feel in the pedal? How does my car handle a lateral slide, and can I get out of it? etc. Plus: it was a lot of fun.
Texans were here February 12th-15th 2021...it was not a good weekend for us.
San Antonio Texas. The snow came last night
& i’ve been told that in snowy conditions, of your 3 options, turning/breaking/accelerating, Only do ONE at a time.
Best tip for winter driving?
Practice!!!
Get out on wide road with little traffic (which is easy to find on snow day) and purposely twist steering wheel to make car skid, and practice till correct smoothly.
Then practice braking.
I'm getting ready for my first time driving in snow. Four months worth of it. Thanks for the video!
The G force your tyres can provide is total G. Be it cornering, acceleration, or braking. If you feel you just can't steer away from something and also not stop in time, let off the brakes, and you have some more cornering ability. Having a racing wheel with force feedback and Beamng is good practice for this. Saved my life a few times
A few years back, I had a chance to take a 1-day class on this topic. In it, they covered the advantages of modern ABS with the traction controls on the cars from one specific manufacturer and did so by turning on and off the ABS and traction control. The class was at their proving grounds and it took place on a large area that they had sprayed with water just before a freeze. Fortunately (it made the class better) it snowed on top of the ice. I don't want to make a misleading mistake on describing what I learned but, if you can, it would be good to describe best techniques for driving with and without traction controls and ABS. The experiences were very different.
SE Michigan Andy I’ve been planning on doing a video on ABS in snow... I did tests about 10yrs ago & could stop 30-40% faster without ABS, I really detest ABS for winter driving. Traction control is fine for ice but ends up getting you stuck if you’re driving in deep snow.
What I say slow and steady wins the race in snow! You four wheel drives in Northern VA sure you can get up to speed but when the snow come down turning a corner at speed in snow you will slide into the ditch because you can’t stop as easy can you!
This is definitely one of my fave EE videos ever. Short, concise, just great.
Happy to hear it, thanks so much for watching!
"driving in the dry, you probably leave 3-4 seconds to the car in front of you"...Really?? I'm the only person I know who does this and almost everyone around me loses their minds driving angrily around me. I have trouble believing you do this and you think "most people" would do this.
I'm lucky if I ever see someone leaving a 2-second gap in front of them.
Who else in Texas is searching up how to drive in snow rn?
Snowy roads have 2 effects other: if the snow is soft and really thick then it is usually beneficial to turn of traction control. In practice it turns out if you get stuck in the snow with traction control on sometimes you can get unstuck and going again by just flooring the pedal and spitting all the snow away. It might sound odd but I've seen tests where it works and I've tried it out myself during last winter.
Another effect: in slippery environments using the dynamic friction can be more effective to push you forwards than static friction. On a slippery road both the static and dynamic friction coefficient are low, so it doesn't take much efford to let the wheels spin at high speeds.
Look, there is a reason why rally cars (sometimes) drift during turns, there is a reason why Russian and Skandinavian racers drift on ice. On ice you can take a turn faster sideways than forward.
Anyways, every snow drifter uses winter tires, so there is no excuse for not buying proper winter tires. And obviously if you're not good at drifting and/or you don't know what's ahead of you driving slowly is obviously safer. And i have to admit, it's quite hard to brake your car on ice with dynamic friction, you can't easily put it in reverse to floor the throttle.
This and your tire comparison video are great. However, I wish you would include studded snows in your discussions. Yes, they make noise and can decrease traction on dry roads, but they can be the difference between life and death in severe winter conditions. I have found myself on several occasions being the only car on stretches of I-70 in Colorado not spinning off the side of the road thanks to my studded snows. I have had several instances where I avoided multi-car pile-ups, steering around the disable vehicles like they were slalom gates.
Being from Minnesota, winter driving doesn't always have to do with snow on the ground. Visibility is also a major factor. Just don't go any faster than road conditions feel safe (ie don't be doing 55mph when there's a heavy snowfall).
Just because you can go, does not mean you can stop. Only go whatever slow speed you can get stopped from. I have driven successfully on slick ice....because I went painfully slow...but did not skid.
Great tip!
you should learn to control a drift
But I have all wheel drive, so the laws of physics don't apply to me.
@@brentfromsomewhere True.
I once couldn't go anywhere because it snowed like 40cm. I decided to take a bus lol
Just a protip from someone who used to drive professionally year round in the north. After it snows go find a nice secluded open parking lot and just learn how ur car handles when it has no grip. Im not saying go do a bunch of donuts but learn to handle when theres no grip
Car insurance companies should offer seasonal discounts for putting on winter tires, similar to what they do for other safety features like ABS.
I agree, that’d be great. Nice to have an incentive behind it.
@@EngineeringExplained They do in Canada!
Winter tires should be mandatory
I drive an eighteen wheeler. People aren't aware of how much stopping distance we need already, and inclimate weather amplifies this by magnitudes.
Four-wheelers like to cut into my six second forward space leaving one second between us all the time, even in the rain. Worse in wind and/or snow.
This needs to include a piece about skid control and recovery and the physics behind it....
If you drive in bad weather, you will encounter a skid of least one point in time and the secret is recovering from it safely....yes you can recover from a skid even in a curve
I agree! I've done a video on it in the past with more detail about correcting: ruclips.net/video/jWMAzdK_Qkw/видео.html
Drove a taxi in Reno/Tahoe for twenty years. First and foremost, slow down. Second, don't tailgate. Third, practice, practice, practice. I drove 50 hours a week and got very good at it. Some snow is easy to drive on, some will be almost impossible.
You could make a followup video about the traction circles in snow and icy conditions with different tire types (Summer, all-seasons, all-weathers, winters, and studded winter tires). That could be an interesting video for those of us living in colder climates.
Nothing here is said about those wide stance tires verses skinny pizza cutter tires...there is a big difference between these tires in the rain and snow
I believe he did a few years ago. He took his Subaru for some mountain driving using different tires and tested the stopping speed.
I’d watch that. He could also do a section on using manual shift to manage your braking in low traction conditions. And then best snow hoon setup and characteristics.
Now for 'Driving in the Snow part 2: Rally Edition'. Traction circles being what they are on gravel, snow, etc., how do rally cars go so fast around corners? How do the friction circles of their gravel/snow tires compare to winter tires used by everyday people? I see lots of whiteboards in the future if you make this one....
What about lowering your tire pressure?
Only use the tire pressure recommended in the driver's manual.
I had to drive in the snow in a '94 Trans Am GT with performance tires. THAT was an experience! 320 lb/ft of torque in a 3000 lb car, with no hope of "biting" the snow...but boy did she glide gracefully at a diagonal.
"You also want to be smooth & slow with your driving input"
Pff.. I'm pretty sure "sideways" is the only way to corner in snow with AWD. Can't break loose unexpectedly if you're already in a controlled slide, right?
My thoughts exactly! I don't understand how people drive cars in snowy conditions if they don't have a proper handbrake :D
i've drifted a car with a foot brake before. you just hold the release with one hand and steer with the other :p
Douglas Sounds terrifying. Brilliant! 😎
As a Canadian, I am both delighted and triggered that you chose this topic.
However, winter tires are soft and piles of snow is not as common on roads as ICE.... which is why you need soft tires, preferably with studs.
Next video -- tire comparison! Stopping on ice! Threshold braking Vs. ABS!
Normal tire pressure Vs. 10% below recommended pressure!
In our part of Ontario, studded tires are illegal. They’re only allowed in Northern Ontario.
What about static vs dynamic friction? Water in all its form will have very low dynamic friction. Meaning, what you said is true till you break that static friction barrier and start sliding but then during sliding the behavior is worse than 0.7/0.3 etc. You get a false feeling that you can go half the dry speed because thats where you start sliding but in case you do start sliding you wont make it
Drove south on 395 to so cal a few years ago in a bit of dump of snow in our 2011 Optima LX with A/S tires...kept going passed the "chains required" signs where the plowing had stopped and now were making our own tracks for maybe 35 miles...careful throttle aps and gentle braking got us thru!!! We arrived in La Habra feeling victorious and exhausted!!
Also, if you know you are going to roads that may be in bad condition: Shovel and a pack of gravel ain't a bad idea. Rough cat litter is also a very good one to use since it serves a double duty of removing humidity from the inside of your car. Just not used cat litter :D
I also pack a tub of salt.
Where my Texas peeps at? Its alright im taking notes as well.
It would be nice to see more detail about how acceleration/braking *during* cornering affects the lateral grip, as well as the particular forces experienced by the front and rear tires when taking longitudinal acceleration into account. There's a big difference between how FWD/RWD/AWD cars behave in low traction conditions.
Grew up in the Bay Area. Was stationed in Georgia for a few years and now I’m moving to Colorado Springs. Trying to learn everything I can about living in snow lol. My years of driving like a grandma have finally paid off😎
Think my car is broken, looked out of my window and I can't see any traction circles?
I have a Series 3 Land Rover on military tyres. In fresh snow its just the best fun and leaves modern SUVs behind, on ice its a whole lot less so and can be quite nasty.
No anti-lock, drum brakes, no power steering, useless heater, no automatic gearbox, no electronic traction control, no electronics at all in fact...........just you, four gearsticks and 2.5 tons of English iron. I love it.
Good video Matt. :)
The rule of thumb for following distance I've always preferred is "1 second per 10 miles (16 km) per hour." That's the one my driving instructor taught me when I was a kid.
First, yes that's linear, but it works alright for most vehicles at most road speeds without having to do exponential equations in your head while driving.
Second, yes that's a long way (528 feet or 0.1 miles @ 60 mph -or- 161 m @ 97 km/h.) Reaction time will account for between 62 and 264 feet (19-80 m) of that depending on the driver and their state of awareness or distraction. A cursory review of the relevant studies show the best reaction time is around 0.7 seconds to begin braking, but when allowing for distractions or more relaxed awareness or individual variance, that number is reported as much as 3 seconds. At our example highway speeds, that leaves 265-466 feet (80-142 m) for the vehicle to stop once you start applying brakes. Looking at the chart Matt showed, that is within the stopping distance of most vehicles on wet or dry roads, but not snow unless you're hyper-aware and have the fastest of reflexes, and definitely not on the ice at all.
Sure, if you try leaving that much following distance ahead of you in Los Angeles you'll piss everyone off and end up constantly having to slow down to increase distance as people move in front of you. It will be effectively impossible and an exercise in frustration for you and everyone around you. Of course, traffic actually moving at 60 mph in LA would be a miracle unto itself. :p
Shorter following distance rules of thumb make allowances for a lot of assumptions like the lead vehicle taking some distance to gradually reduce speed as well, or escape routes to the shoulder and so on. After seeing the results of a vehicle with a suspension failure drop onto its frame on the highway, I feel safer not relying on allowances. Likewise, I've seen loads fall out the back of trucks onto the road countless times. You're following a vehicle ahead around a bend and the guy in front of you runs head first into a fallen tree across the road. You name it. The _1 sec per 10 mph_ rule works on the "A stationary concrete barricade suddenly appears where the rear bumper of the lead vehicle is" assumption and I find driving a lot less stressful. A lot of that comes down to personal preference as much as physics I suppose.
*AND REMEMBER AWD AND 4X4 ONLY HELP YOU START MOVING. IT DOES NOT HELP YOU STOP AT ALL. ONLY A SNOW TIRE CAN HELP YOU STOP ON SNOW. I SEE TRUCKS ALL THE TIME GETTING MESSED UP WHEN IT COMES TIME TO BRAKE*
i put snow tires on my focus st i also have a 4x4 mini pickup truck we use to cart around tires and parts. i tested both cars on snow 0mph-35mph-0mph so like, start get to 35mph then stop. the 4x4 pickup truck lost with all weather tires to a fwd snow tired car, it lost by around 2-4 seconds it used to be in my phones notepad but i got a new phone
I'd like to see the math behind your calculations. What value did you use for the coefficient of kinetic friction? Was the calculated stopping distance based off of an average value of mass of a modern car?
In my part of the world (inland northwest) it seems that Subarus are usually the first ones in the ditch on a snowy day. Not because they aren't good in the snow, but because the drivers are overconfident and/or don't think they need good tires.
Easy acceleration?? Nah, POWAAAAAAH
0 to 100 in two seconds.
@@ProjectExMachina and then 100-0 in 0.02sec ;)
I grew up in Winnipeg where winters are quite... extreme. But because of that I've always had a massive love for driving in snow, even in the rear wheel drive no-abs no-traction control (or as I like to say 'MK1 abs and traction control' aka my foot) old American boats I typically drive. I like to say driving in snow give you the feel of really really fast but you don't even have to break the speed limit. Great video though! Gave me some new ways of thinking of certain things while driving in those sorts of conditions.
So less traction circle equals more fun if you know what you're doing.. got ya I'm moving to Canada boisss
Excellent video, but I think there is one important fact that should have been added at around 3:56 or so...static and kinetic friction.
Static friction is generally higher than kinetic friction. Therefore, when you make a sudden turn and break the static friction, you slide out of control much easier because it is more difficult to regain that static friction when relying on kinetic friction to do so. The difference between static and kinetic friction is much less on dry pavement than it is on wet, snow, and ice.
You didn't mention anything about static vs. kinetic friction... in other words, once you lose traction, it's really hard to get it back in the winter.
Just about to start my new job!delivering three beautiful expensive motorcycles in a big van,400 miles to go!in the snow!!this video helped loads!and gave me the confidence to start my day positive!! Thank you young man!(you can teach a old dog new tricks!I'm 58!)😁👍
We really need to collaborate on tyres/tires soon!
Before the advent of ABS brakes, I learned in my manual transmission 1986 GMC Sierra would stop quite quickly using down shifting to 1st gear. I tried the same thing with my automatic transmission cars and that also worked.
Watching this, since its snowing in Las Vegas in the mist of all desert.
Some very good salient points. I’ve always found that ‘testing’ the conditions in your car when you first start out is extremely helpful. Find a relatively secluded spot and try some low speed ‘panic’ maneuvers that won’t cause you to hit anything. That way, when you’re out on the road you’ll understand how your particular vehicle will react in those particular conditions. Different surfaces cause dramatically different reactions for your cars steering and braking…!
The required speed and distant is very helpful.
Hey Jason, i really don't want to make you uncomfortable, your videos are awesome.
But i have to tell you that your videos are very good in helping people to fall asleep. You have a nice and soft voice and speak in a way that it sounds like an awesome bedtime story:D (trust me, it happened to me more than once):D
But your content is always extremely good! Keep up the work.
I live in Canada where we have lots of snow. I agree to keep momentum in snow if you can. When I drive in a pickup I like to have some weight over the drive wheels. In addition I find front wheel drive cars are better than rear wheel drive. I drive an all wheel drive SUV with ABS and studded Snow tires which give max traction and traction control. Can you give some facts about snow tire, studs. Plus that winter tire are a softer rubber in the cold than all season/ summer tire ? . And have you or can you talk about traction control like my SUV has ? Thank you, have a nice day.
Tire studs are supposed to be great for snow and ice especially but reduce your grip a little on dry pavement in the cold, because there's less rubber and metal isn't as grippy obviously. Also they're noisy, never tried them myself, I believe in southern ontario here, studded tires are not allowed.
Ben , I live in Newfoundland where studs are allowed. My wife and I both have studded tires and find it makes a big difference. A down side to studs is that it wears out the pavement fast than no studded tires.
G circle, easy and light on the steering wheel and pedals - you just explained part of racing drivers science :) Because you know - racing is about always staying right on the edge of the G circle and that's how you drive on that edge - with no sudden motions with the controls. So therefore, by lowering the G circle's radius, snow simply makes everyone a racer!