This FIXES Trade in Victoria 3! TGR Production & Trade Mod
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- FINALLY I have a mod that makes trade not a nightmare! Sasco cracked the code and his TGR mod will make the global economy grow and profitable trades dominate the markets of the world. Paradox developers take note!
TGR Production & Trade: steamcommunity...
My mod list is in my Discord server. If it was easier to do a Steam collection, I would have done one. :-)
This particular mod list is also here for those without Discord: zzzptm.com/wor...
I like playing smaller nations and building up their economies without needing to conquer half the world just to get some resources. The trade system always bottle necked that to an absurd degree. Glad you guys figured out a way to fix it to some degree
To be sure, I still need to explore the post-rubber/oil economy some more, but I do have hope that even if that part is still broken, we can cook up a boost, perhaps with a dummy building to just get production started.
Another mod list, huzzah! Morgenrote has completely elevated Victoria 3 for me, so thank you for the introduction. Adding in the discovery and non-violent aspects of Great Power competition really brings out the 19th century flavour, and I can't play without it. If this new list of yours also has trade and the economy improved... you've got my gaming schedule sorted until Civ 7 releases. I am eternally grateful for that good sir!
And I plan to get into Civ 7, as well!
Thanks for the most recent list! Not using it for a LP at the moment, since I wanted a leaner and more stabile version for the current one (focussing on the Balkan Mod), but had a great SP run with the US with your list here yesterday, and it was a very good atmosphere and interesting and feasible BIP development of the European great powers.
Morgenröte is massive, didn't know it so far and I think I really like they way they brought tons of flavor without just adding tons of boni and extra buttons to hit. However, it is almost too much that I got a little bit overwhelmed and didn'r really read everything / just found the tasks for my researchers a bit reoucrring alongside the Balloon Man - nevertheless the list as a whole provided me with the one trial one of the best V3 experiences I had so far!
If you ever think about a SlowPlay heavy modded MP with other RUclipsrs, let me know, happy to help out ;)
MR is really massive, 100%, but I *love* the competition for science and arts! I'll take the slow.
I can honestly say, yes, I've done a half hour recording without the microphone being on. I know the pain. I feel those feels.
We share the burden when we share the pain...
ooh i’ve been using this mod for quite a while. despite the fairly significant performance hit i always use it because the game just doesn’t feel right to play without it anymore. Definitely one of the best ever made for this game
Yes, and I think the way to deal with that performance hit is within reach. Just need to clean up the messes the AI is making, find ways to take out the trash in the game, as it were.
Mod list is excellent for gdp growth in my last game I’ve seen 3.4 bilion in India with 250 pop (late game). However Ai does some weird thing. It overuse migration boost to unincorporated regions (10mil pop in German Warsaw, 1mil in Berlin, uk having 55 milion pop and 750 gdp in one Indian province, 2 mil in London itself). Second thing i faced was eternal shortage of employees, I was able to get 100 mil pop as Japan in 1930s however even financial districts were not able to hire everyone. Maybe some mods increasing efficiency of labour efficiency production should be included as running out of peasants seems to happen relatively quick.
However mod-list is great and I’m really glad you’ve included Morgerote in it.
Increasing factory output is an issue I was researching just yesterday, in fact. We need major boosts to output for the mid and late game. Once 30-35% of the population is in the industrial sector, that number stays constant in national demographics to the end. Output far outstips pop growth in that sector.
@ I’ve achieved around 500% throughput with current mod-list (around 300% from urban centre 50% economy of scale rest from new technologies). However to achieve it you need to subsidise urban centres what I doubt Ai will do. Current mod-list encourages one province mega tall buildup with 50mil+ population to man all the buildings. As Japan in the 90s I was able to eliminate all peasants in China in 10 years. One one hand technologies like steam donkey should eliminate more jobs, second any mechanic to encourage spread of industry instead of one big province with rest of the country being depopulated, but increasing industrial output will shift balance between production and consumption. The resolution to the last would be creation of advanced service sector that could create huge consumption demand, create more jobs for late game economy.
Unfortunately to make things right we should look backwards at what economy should look like late game and how we can simulate it but that’s perfection goal rather than achievable one.
Yet again thank you for the mod list, I’ve played on earlier iteration for 1.7xxx and having lots of fun with each change!
Not sure if that might be it, but are those separate "Russia" trade routes - trade routes from your market to Russian market, just maintained by different countries in both of the markets? That's the only case I can fathom that makes it kind of work in my head.
The mod you're showcasing here looks amazing. I need to check it out on my next playthrough! Thank you for giving it visibility!
I really don't know why those routes are the way they are, but yes that mod is great stuff!
@@An_Economist_Plays please, go searching, see if any country of either your or russia's market are adding additional trade routes
Hi, love your videos but i want to ask something. Is there any way that you can share your mod list without discord? Since our f'ing government banned discord (Im in turkey) i cant access it :(
Let me think about the best way I could do that...
zzzptm.com/wordpress/?p=2998 this is on my personal website, but I can list all the links here.
@@An_Economist_Plays thank you so much🙏🏻
I see that trade laws have been changed to use negative tariff rates. I'm rather skeptical that you are paying money to everyone who exports goods to you and that makes me wonder if the exporter is receiving money that is created from no where. So additional information on how these negative tariffs are implemented is needed to understand what is actually happening.
Also the convoy generation is out of control. You have over 50,000 unused convoys despite the massive trade that is occurring. Shipping costs have virtually been eliminated so of course trade skyrockets, so you receive all of the profits in the trade centers without having to pay laborers to move the goods. Can you show everyone what this looks like with normal convoys from ports?
I agree that the convoys are not working as designed, but if they are kept limited, then we have crippled trade and we're back to the AI not building anything in the game. As for profits, I'm really not reaping huge benefits relative to my budget, and my taxes are pretty high in order to make ends meet. I'm running a big surplus to pay off the series of wars I just had and I'm hoping for a good few years of peace to settle a good portion of my national debt.
At the same time, the *feel* of the game is much richer, on account of the fixes in this mod. Add that in with the PEC and MR and other flavor mods that I'm running and it is an excellent ride. Perhaps if I do a full play-through with this mod set for the channel, more of your questions could be answered.
Hey guys! Hey @ThomasDega. Good that you pointed out this topic. Maybe i can give you some info:
1) Convoys: currently the tweak here is just on the PM about the ports, which i increased the numbers of convoys per level. This i did because now the volume of trade is so high that if we would keep the same PM, every country in the world would get a massive negative deficit, so we needed to re-balance the PM.
I'm working on a version not yet available on workshop where the trade centers are producing a small portion of convoys, so the government will continue to build ports to stimulate the trade, but the Idea is to make the trade centers step in (at least partially). Ideally I'm looking for a 75%/25%
2) Negative tariffs, as you said, seems that we generate money from nowhere, and it's partially so, but the difference is that these money are not collected by the country and it doesn't go in your treasury, but into the trade center.
This because the concept that i had in my mind was: "me as government i want to subsidize a specific trade sector, to incentive the export/import of that specific good".
This currently works because allows to you and AI to push specific sectors of your economy. In the future i would like make this more reasonable adding the option that if you as government want subsidize a trade route, you should pay through your treasury, ut currently there is only this way to make this happen.
Furthermore this "Negative tariffs" tweak is made not for the Player itself, but for the AI to tell them "Hey, look, you have a company that produces woods, so switch your tariffs on encourage export!" Which without this unfortunately it wouldn't understand. 😅
3) logic: about the logic of all these changes, as also Dean said, unfortunately we had to turn our vision and ask ourselves not "what make sense for us" but "what can we introduce to help the AI to make its job". (Look an example the changes on Protectionism and Free trade laws)
Hope that this can help 😄
@@SascoOfficialChannel Thank you for the detailed reply. It does confirm that the massive growth in GDP that was shown in the video is a result of money being created by the mod. The larger the trade volume the greater the value of money being created, so massive increase in convoys at no cost magnifies this dramatically.
Consider this: Why doesn't the AI cancel trades that occur at a loss? Perhaps because even losing trades create a profit for the trade center and since convoys seem unlimited there is no cost or tradeoff. For example, I will often import grain from China instead of building a lot of farms, and while this is very profitable it will consume more and more convoys until it crowds out other trade and I am forced to either dramatically expand ports, cancel and reset the route and/or build a lot more farms. This sort of trade off won't occur with unlimited convoys.
I do appreciate what you are trying to achieve but it seems that some severe and unrealistic distortions have been made to the simulation to achieve the objective. This is not smarter AI, it is a continuous injection of free money into the global economy.
@@An_Economist_Plays Sasco confirmed that free money is going to the trade centers not directly to the government so while some of it would be taxed most of it creates extra demand in the economy and increases the investment pool. Even loss making trades will grow the economy because of the negative tariffs and free money.
@ThomasDega i liked your analysis! Thanks for the feedback!
Anyway you have to consider also further elements because what you say is not 100% correct, and i try to put it down as following:
1) negative tariffs: agree with you, but only partially, because these "fake money" generated are pushing up the profitability of the trade route up to a maximum of 15%. Basically the negative tariff is changing the "equilibrium point" compared with the Vanilla equilibrium.
2) Effect of negative tariffs: the real goal of the tariff is not to create extra money, but having the possibility of push up the market price up to +15% (if an example you are the exporter), and doing so, the investment pool will "recognize" that can build more buildings this specific good. This will stimulate the IP to focus on these goods when have to decide what to build.
3) AI strategy: in Vanilla AI decide which goods to export based on the admin strategy, and this means that the AI will switch tariffs from "no priority" to "export" (ex. If AI have agricultural plantation, will switch to export)
In TGR instead this switch works based on which companies the Nation has.
And that's why you will have Countries like Russia that exports huge quantities of grain and woods (because they have the associated company).
4) Convoys: as i told before, ports PM are tweaked, so you have basically more convoys per level. This makes the cost for trade cheaper, and about this i agree with you, but it was intended.
As conclusions in TGR you have:
-AI that switch its trade desire based on which companies has (that doesn't happen in Vanilla)
-AI build more buildings related to the companies
-AI that will prefer import those goods which is not encouraging for the production and export.
At the end of the day multiply these effects for all the countries and you will have a big chain that ties all the economies all together, and every economy will be specialised in specific sectors.
So that 2 Billion of GDP are yes, partially "subsidized" by these 15% of fake money, but the rest is all organic.
The AI is not smarter and i agree, with or without mod, it just follows algorithm and patterns, for this we needed to provide to it the right drivers to achieve this. 😄
The way to avoid circular trade is to make sure that trade is not 100% efficient, that there are real shipping costs, depreciation of goods when being shipped, etc., and at no point is trade creating money out of thin air.
Now if a circular trade scheme of x amount of good y can be net profitable for the set of involved countries (not to mention if it were profitable for each country), that's just disgusting.
Indeed. And the tariff fixes in the mod essentially guide the AI into making "better" trade choices to the point where we have real volume of trade in things that make sense. Still have trades that make no sense, but that's likely for the 1.9 overhaul to tend to.
This is exactly my concern. Sysco confirmed to me that with negative tariffs money is being created out of thin air for the trade center. Marginal shipping cost is zero due to unlimited convoys, so even trades that occur at a loss not only grow GDP but are actually "profitable" because of the free money. Trades may appear to make no sense when the free money creation is ignored. So trade UP but realism DOWN.
@@ThomasDega Yes. Realistic trade is off the table. But realistic economic activity is in the game for the first time, I feel. I'm happy to have broken trade in exchange for AI opponents that can flex and cause me real concern. It is a trade-off in terms of mechanics, I agree on that.
onde esta seu discord amigo? adoraria ver todos seus mods
discord.gg/sCFfskknXV