It’s not just the pitch correction, though. It’s also snapping all the instruments to a grid. It would be more accurate to say “Computers are killing music.”
@@IanPritchard I hope you’re right, but technology, like the arrow of time, doesn’t go backwards (and yeah, I know some people who have meticulously trimmed beards and sip cognac and brandy that listen to vinyl records sometimes). We’re never going back to the time before smartphones, for example. IMO this tech, once made available, was impossible not to use (at first mostly for economic reasons), and is changing the way most listeners hear music. And AI will just accelerate that trend soon, erasing human artists entirely (they will be replaced by “pitch person” models, chosen for physical appearance, or even anime creations (look up Gorillaz)). For a while, there will be people who recall “flawed” performances fondly, but they will die out, and perhaps more importantly, stop buying music.
I see a clear, stark difference between a pop star using pitch correction and a vocal coach using it. The pop star leaves a bad taste in my mouth for seeming to “cheat,” but a vocal coach using pitch correction is committing fraud. It’s highly frustrating that we’ve come to this point…
Once a new technology is invented, it becomes exploited and can’t seem to be uninvented. At least I never seen it happen before. 25 years from now nobody will know what a real singer sounds like. Too bad.
@@johndelconte9915 "25 years from now nobody will know what a real singer sounds like." This is what scares me. Kids will grow up not even knowing anything different. As a music love as well as an amateur singer, I find that horrifying.
I think this is being trained out of people when it comes to music appreciation. Look at the massive success of heavily corrected music like Home Free or Pentatonix, or of shows like The Voice, or even the more subtly corrected artists like Taylor Swift (or nearly anyone else releasing music today-check out the massive pitch correction (and other processing) on The Rolling Stones last record (and yes, Mick Jagger is really old, but his success was nearly entirely due to the incredible character(s) revealed by his imperfect (usually flat) singing). Go listen to indie icon Liz Phair’s debut record, “Exile in Guyville.” Could that happen now? Seems impossible. It sounds over-dramatic, but I think this technology will take a part of our humanity away, and it will never return. But then I’m a singer songwriter, and my pitch is just ok ; )
I used to work for one of these RUclips vocal coaches. This person definitely pitch corrects, but I honestly think it’s pretty common with these type of channels. It’s obviously dishonest, particularly in exercises focused on improving your pitch, but I understand wanting the exercise to sound “perfect” in order to sell the product, lessons, what have you.
Oh, this is flat-out deceiving to the potential student and quite unethical. The idiom “buyer beware” definitely applies to this lady’s singing course. 😡
@@cupidok2768 how is this a scam lmfao her videos are warm ups, great exercises for singers, she uses pitch correction so beginners know exactly what notes to hit. Why would it matter.... the exercises still work lmfao
My answer to your question would be: yes it would make a difference and change my opinion if the vocal lesson I was buying stated it was pitch corrected. Pitch correction does not "perfect" the singers voice, it takes out all the emotions and the feelings of the singers natural voice. I agree, "Get it out of perfection and into expression"! Thank you, Fil, for another excellent analysis!
This is sad, because like you say, she can teach. It's a reflection on our society as a whole, and we saw it with the idea that even models weren't beautiful enough and must be photoshopped to be "perfect" and that led to people using filters on social media, and now pitch correction so everyone sounds "perfect, " or at least perfectly similar. Eventually everyone is going to sound the same and look the same, it seems.
I feel like you're shifting the blame away from the bad actors onto society. Ultimately everyone is responsible for their own actions. This "vocal coach" is a fraud deceiver, and poor excuse for a human being.
ha ha ha ha ha.good job Fil. how i wish all her subscribers would watch this video. She might be a good teacher but she should be ashamed of herself. In my opinion this is nothing less than fraud, pitch corrected and drop ins. disgusting
If I were taking a course from someone who was doing this, it would be extremely difficult for me not to feel disillusioned. There's something about a vocal coach running exercises through pitch correction software while saying "be precise" that just reeks of being laughed at and lied to. And apparently she's a good enough singer and teacher to not have to resort to this kind of chicanery. If you're a vocal coach, and you're doing this, and your students aren't told at any point that you're using pitch correction software, and that people don't actually sing like that, then you're actively cheating them.
OMG! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I requested you to do this, and you answered my prayers! 🙏 I’m so so glad you’ve put the spotlight on this particular vocal coach. I called her out in the her comment sections on a few of her videos for *exactly this* when I discovered her several months ago. I genuinely agree with you- I think she has a fantastic personality, and an incredible natural voice. But quite frankly, I think what she does when she doctors her own vocals, *on vocal exercise videos* -is completely fraudulent. she is also not that great at using the pitch correction software itself (assuming she is the one who is actually editing the vocals). You can hear not only how some notes have been shifted so drastically, it seems to warp the formant on them, but also how the variation on certain staccato notes has been flattened to the point where it just sounds robotic.
Alternative perspective: isn’t it better to demonstrate the perfect reference notes on an exercise video? Would you rather train your ear and voice to a what you know the perfect note is? Or to a reference note that is occasionally going to be 15-30 cents off. Most people perform exercises like this to an instrument. Her goal is that you follow along. Personally, it makes perfect sense why you would pitch correct practice videos.
I notice some of the comments defend the practice as setting a standard reference and train the ear/voice. I argue against that too: Singing slightly out of standardized pitch is not a mistake. In fact, the musical ear/voice doesn't work like the tempered piano and will naturally tend towards good ratios like 2/3 for a perfect fifth and 1/2 for a perfect octave. But that's not how the piano is tuned: ever since Bach it's "tempered" to remove the Pythagorean comma (apologies for being smartypants here). This is why it's so hard to tune a guitar by ear while fretting the 5th fret (and that bloody 4th fret for the B): the better your musical ear, the more you will go slightly out of tune. Eventually you compromise by minimizing the error on different tone distances - which is equivalent to tempering. This is also why choirs go out of tune with an orchestra (but will notice and adjust) and why, in the pre-tempered era, orchestras would tune their instruments towards the key of the piece - and often still do. It's not only physically impossible, as Fil points out, to replicate standardized tuning, it's also leading away from actual musicality - even if hitting perfect fifths and perfect octaves all the time is also impossible.
Absolutely agree! In the old days, the slight imperfections were part of music. Every violinist knows that the leading tone is slightly higher than a semi tone below the root, and singers should apply this, too.
It makes a huge difference for me. I'm disappointed because I watch her. If she can't do the whole phrase without blocking it, if I were a student, I'd be thinking "what chance do I have?!!" And, of course, it's dishonest!
Don't worry, what he says there is only half true. Drop ins in recordings are done in a way you don't hear the breath. On the other hand, it's natural for some breath to leave the mouth if you set an impulse. So it's either a verrrryyyyy bad drop in recording, or an absolutely normal thing to do for a singer. This guy chose the option for himself that matched his opinion. That's all.
The sad thing is that not only is she a good teacher, but she ends up affirming and encouraging her young students to copy the autotuned vocal timbre. All my voice teachers who work with CCM (commercial contemporary music....basically everything but classical) as well as opera complain about this....their young CCM students consciously or subconsciously copy the bright, nasal, autotuned quality they are hearing on pop songs. And want to sing that way, instead of finding their own unique sound.
This is heartbreaking. I used to be a follower of hers, and I loved watching her vocal exercises. But now that I know this, I no longer feel right supporting her. I think people should start unfollowing the people who use pitch correction like this, cuz that's the only way to send the message that we dont like it. If enough people started unfollowing, that is.
Grrrrr. This makes me so mad. I’ve been teaching music for years. Each year is more of a struggle to compete with online ‘quick-fix/minimum-effort’ Apps, you tube instructors etc, especially trying to rebuild post-COVID. It’s so unbelievably demoralising & now we’ve got to contend with vocal coaches using pitch correction. Great, Eye-opening video FIL. I just don’t get it tho. She’s obviously a really good teacher so why the pitch correction. It’s taking over everywhere.
@@manuelandremusic OMG THANK YOU!! thats what im trying to understand here! Is everyone saying she should be putting out vocal exercises that are "attainable so not on perfect pitch" I would love the input of an actual music teacher here because i did purchase her courses and would love an opinion of a profesional teacher before i start them
@@denuitsmoongardens8474my vocal teacher actually used her exercises regularly for warmup with me. That’s how I got to know her. I love the workouts and her energy. And I don’t feel offended by her making the vocals pitch perfect. If you hear the exercise daily, it’s not just training for the voice, but also for the ears. And I want to train my ears with „correct“ notes.
I wouldn't buy a vocal coaches lessons if the lessons are pitch corrected. This is cheating. It is a travesty for musical ethics. Thanks for bringing this to light, Fil.
So you want to do exercises to reference notes that aren’t pitch perfect? That doesn’t make any sense at all. If I’m going to watch a vocal exercise video that I use to warm up everyday, I would prefer that all of the reference notes are pitch perfect. It’s a better way to train your ear and know how far off you are. She’d be doing people a bigger disservice if she was releasing exercise videos where random notes were 15-30 cents off. That in itself would be negligent for someone with her level of influence. This is really a stretch criticism.
I have left comments on a number of vocal coach reaction videos to the effect that they were reacting to a vocal that was autotuned or pitch corrected--they seem oblivious to it or they don't care. I don't think I've gotten a response--maybe one said thank you for your comment or something.
Great job, once again, Fil. It's bad enough when a "singer" is pitch corrected. I put quotation marks around singer because we don't know if they can really sing or not if their vocals are artificially dragged onto the note. A vocal teacher pitch correcting their voice to sell their course is outrageous! If they're not showing their true voices to prospective students, while intimating that the students will sound similar to them after spending, I surmise, hundreds of dollars, it's fraudulent. One IS NOT a good vocal teacher if one is trying to gain students by presenting something that is impossible to attain with a natural voice with the pretense that people who buy the course will sound as perfect because of the training.
She only uses it for her vocal exercises- he even points out shes not using it in her videos of working with students in real time I didnt see him clock her for using it anywhere else- although i have commented that exact question
Fil, if this was not so sad, it would be funny ! I saw your eye rolls, and I feel the same way about this one! Thank you for showing the little girl , she does have a great sound ! Now, I am going to bang my head into the wall to try to erase the pitch corrected vocal teacher part of this analysis! Did your brass key fall off the wall ? Great job, Fil on this one ! 💜
" Do you hear that pitch correction, that is crazy" and I have to agree with you on that one. It is deceiving and would definitely influence my decision. Great analysis Fil. 😊🎸🎵
I'm probably going to catch some heat for my comment. I have no music training, I sing for fun. I came across Cheryl's vocal exercises about 2yrs ago. I didn't know they were pitch corrected and I don't care that they are. I use them about 4xs a week while driving. I learn by mimicking the sound. After watching Fil's analysis I actually appreciate knowing that what I'm listening to is what the note should sound like. Warming up my vocals using Cheryl's vids, I am under no dilution that I will be a superstar 😂, but the exercises have helped me from clearing out a room and having people run for the exits. Should it be disclosed, probably. Y'all can debate among yourselves. Thank for another great vid, Fil.
Whyyyyy???😢😢😢😢 She is a vocal beast..she can switch from gospel belting to crooning to a really great operatic spinto soprano...she lives in Italy (the land and culture of opera and belcanto)and was musically educated in the states etc...she KNOWS, how to sing...I love her videos...it seems, that EVERYBODY today is unsure about their ability and has to "correct" itt technically
I used to be subscribed to Cheryl and I'm surprised about this! She has 10.6M subscribers!!!! Wow! Thanks for doing this Fil. You can't even trust singing teachers! No I wouldn't buy the course if the exercises have been pitch corrected!
@@martyndawson7484i had some physics instructors like that. Probably about 90% of the students in my classes never understood physics and would run out the class.
If you cant trust a coach to NOT pitch correct. The steps up are just too perfect, but you can pick up a "buzz" She is probably a great vocalist but to keep it "precise" using a bit of software 🤷♂ If I buy pitch correction I really dont need to buy anything else let alone her course. . Very interesting video 2x👍
It's propagating a falsehood, it's being dishonest and unrealistic......can you imagine Paul Rodgers using pitch correction, it would ruin his uniqueness....or Robert Plant !!
I think there's a case to be made for pitch correcting an exercise that's about pitch accuracy, because the pitch corrected voice is standing in for a piano as a reference.
Im shocked at how many people dont seem to understand that singing the note in that pitch IS THE POINT OF THE EXERCISE" In a perfect world would it always be her being on pitch with any auto tuning- but i honestly understand using the help of a program because it might take a ridiculous amount of time to record every single video with flawless pitch! The woman has real students to teach and a life! Only if she got defensive or weird ahout it would this be a problem in my opinion
@@M0odyBlue most exercises start out with the instrument but you need to also hear exactly your supposed to be doing with your voice- ESPECIALLY when your not able to get in person corrections
Well to be fair in a vocal exercise you want to be as close to perfect pitch as possible so the student can hear the pitch they need to hit. It may be a good thing she does that tbh.
It struck me as wrong to be teaching the girl to imitate Whitney's expression. Teach breath control, tone, etc. and encourage her to find her own expression eventually. Yes, there ought to be a label or disclaimer, so people know when pitch-correction has been applied. Great analysis, even if a bit of a bummer in the findings of drop-ins and pitch-correction.
To be fair, that's not what she was doing with that kid. I've seen a few vids with her, and she's actually performing professionally - so she's not being taught to mimic anyone, the WH song was just used as a teaching tool for certain techniques.
Emulating or "mimicing" other singers is something almost all vocal teachers do because its a helpful and useful vocal exercise. Being able to in a sense "try on" different voices really helps in figuring out not only what are capable of- but also what makes your voice uniquely your own
I have so many questions. Why do half of these sound like a cat food commercial, sans cats, and the other half sound like canned 80s pop? That aside, with regard to the question of whether it would change my opinion of the course, yes it would. I wonder if someone would see this, attempt the exercises, not be able to hit the notes, and then assume they need the paid course to learn to hit the notes?
It's like these stars that lose 40 pounds in a half a year and say they just changed their diet and did some exercise--well maybe, but maybe they had a little extra help.
Wow. It seems we have reached a new level of fakery in the music business. With rare exceptions, i don't buy music recorded after the mid-90's anymore.
I actually think it makes sense to use pitch correction so the student is attempting to match the perfect note and not a slightly off one. If the teacher is slightly flat, and the student attempts to replicate the note, but is also on the flat side, the student's note may be noticeablely flat. I do think there should be some sort of notice, but rather than just "this vocal example has been pitch corrected," I think there should be a paragraph at the beginning with a more detailed explanation that precise is being within a range around the note because perfection isn't possible. I suspect, with an explanation, if she offered both an original and pitch corrected version for each exercise, students would opt for the pitch corrected ones even if they had difficulty telling the difference between the two. It'd be really fun if you worked together so the explanation had great visuals or if she could link a relevant video of yours. Thanks for your breakdown.
It's blatantly obvious. It sounds so robotic. This is beginning to become rather pathetic. May as well buy an old Casio SK-1 from the 80's and sing a note into it and then just play it back on the keys. It will be just as annoying and robotic.
I think I saw her in a commercial for sore throat medicine. I reconized her face with voice. It helps knowing that no amount of lessons will get you to sing a perfect pitch but a good teacher will teach you how to use the voice you have and you'll have your own style. How to spend your money wisely 👍🙂👍
Btw, I d absolutely love it (and yes, I know Fil has tons of requests, so that is why I don t even dare to mail him, just leaving a comment here) if he could do an analysis of Tom Chaplin (singer in Keane, and singer of amazing covers and some great solo stuff), as he is, imho, the antithesis of pitch correction: i am 99% sure he does not use it; he has a naturally high key, which is remarkable in itself, and even more incredible that he managed to keep it, considering some almost deathly times he faced with substance abuse. Listening to him performing, for instance, some Queen songs, is out of this world😃🥰❤👏👏. It is one of those cases that you may or may not like his voice and style, but it is undeniable he is a brilliant singer.👍
Yes! Thank you for this. I came across her last year, and immediately felt that what she was doing was dishonest. So many young people seemed to follow her and praise her and her students, and not even realise that there is heavy effects, and pitch correction in her videos. People don't sound like this in natural circumstances.
I see your complaint now. You are complaining about the difference between what she is selling versus what she is teaching. I get it, but I do understand Cheryl’s attempt to provide a perfect example for the student to try to achieve. I don’t know why she would ever use pitch correction, she is a powerhouse singer and doesn’t need any pitch correction for anything!
I see the issue with pitch correction, it assumes perfection can be standardized, mechanized, dimensionalized. In reality perfection is "infinity. It can't be defined, standardized or duplicated, it's always original without exception ! Never the same, twice.
It makes sense to perfect these exercises that people are supposed to do over and over. That way students don't train their ear and singing on some mistake that gets repeated far more than if the repetitions were done during different live lessons.
Not sure I agree. Does the exercises really make sense if the professional is not able to properly replicate it on a recording?. It seems to me it would make more sense to learn an exercise at a level where you can reasonably replicate it as a student and then turn up the difficulty by speeding up or adding new wrinkles.
Ear training is important. Guitar teachers also tune the guitar before practicing even if the G string will never sound as accurate during a show. And most singing teachers use instruments to teach scales, because they produce superhuman pitch.
Singing slightly out of pitch is not a mistake. In fact, the musical ear/voice doesn't work like the tempered piano and will naturally tend towards good ratios like 2/3 for a perfect fifth and 1/2 for a perfect octave. But that's not how the piano is tuned: ever since Bach it's "tempered" to remove the Pythagorean comma (apologies for being smartypants here). This is why it's so hard to tune a guitar by ear while fretting the 5th fret (and that bloody 4th fret for the B): the better your musical ear, the more you will go slightly out of tune. This is also why choirs go out of tune with an orchestra (but will notice and adjust) and why, in the pre-tempered era, orchestras would tune their instruments towards the key of the piece - and often still do. It's not only physically impossible, as Fil points out, to replicate standardized tuning, it's also leading away from actual musicality - even if hitting perfect fifths and perfect octaves all the time is also impossible.
Singing slightly out of pitch the exact same way for an exercise you listen to and do 100s of times is a mistake and as artificial as auto-tune (since repeating is also unnatural)
The ironic thing is that it’s very possible to do subtle pitch correction without giving it all away. It also sounds a lot more natural that way, not that a vocal coach should ever WANT to use it.
So here’s the thing as a trained vocalist, the goal is for the vocalist to hear the right pitch and try to emulate it. You’ve said yourself that no voice is perfect so for me, I just need to hear the right notes in order to be able to try to hit that note. So it may seem fraudulent but I’m ok with that because we’re trying to recreate the right pitch. Listening to a tuned piano or keyboard is way better for vocal exercises but Cheryl uses her pitched voice recordings instead. It is what it is. I appreciate that you show she’s not perfect but for exercises, I understand it. And, I agree that so many artists are pitch fixing their professional vocals and that sucks. I recently recorded myself and I didn’t fix pitches because I want to sound like myself. But I did what seemed like a million takes to get the best recording I could.
I'd be in agreement of it was made transparent and labelled as pitch corrected for accurancy instead of using a piano. Or ok if she records something hundreds of times to get it right. Not saying makes ppl for something impossible.
Of course, if there was a disclaimer onscreen letting me know that Cheryl's vocals during the lessons were pitch corrected, I'd be putting my debit card away and taking a pass on the course. It's illegal (here in Canada, anyway), for example, to sell a tea with echinacea and vitamin C and claim that it will cure your colds. Companies can't make claims about what their product can do if it can't actually do that thing. How is this any different?? If she says, or if people can reasonably infer from something she does or doesn't say, that taking her courses will teach you to sing as accurately as she does in her lessons, then that is definitely misleading. In fact, it's flat out lying, and I don't see how using pitch corrected vocals is of any benefit at all in this case. If Cheryl has a great voice, then it would benefit the students taking the courses to see that even a great singer sings sharp and flat. To see that even a great singer doesn't have a "perfect" voice.
Manufactured singing so everyone sounds like the standard unit just like bottles coming out of a factory are all perfect according to the standard of the bottle template. If you want a unique bottle, you have to go to a glass blowing artisan but this bottle will be slightly imperfect and the artist will never be able to replicate this specific bottle again. That's why having a unique piece is worth more bc it's the only one. The pitch correction of voices is like going from the great value of craftsmanship to the lesser value of manufacturing. It's killing the living essence from our lives, they do it with everything from the standard face of plastic surgery to standard carrots and apples at the supermarket. What is not standard is rejected.
Hi Fil, Oh My! After watching this video, I feel so blessed to have had some wonderful vocal teachers/coaches. This was a very eye opening analysis. I can only think of the saying: Buyer Be Ware. Thanks for doing this one… Debbie☮️
Before standardized tuning of 440hz every country and village had their unic frequencies. All those are "out of tune" now. I like to use 450hz tuning in my music. Growing used to 440hz and then suddenly hearing 450hz makes it pop out for people, at least for me i like it. It has a certain feeling to it. Historical pitch has been all over the place between about 415hz-465hz. Now it's all 440hz stuck on the lines autotune and boring
Fil, I want to ask if you can look at and maybe consider interviewing legendary coach and singer here in Los Angeles, Stephanie Spruill. In the 1970s Stephanie sang back up for Glen Campbell. You can hear her whistle register in his cover of God Only Knows. Even though she is not well known to the general public, interviews with her at the Grammy Museum were sold out. Great coaches are beloved in this town, which is hard on the confidence of even the greatest performers. Spruill is now 74 but it seems like she is doing well, as she just did a live show at Herb Alpert's "Vibrato Lounge." To my ear, Spruill is great singer.
I have her courses and pitch correction or not- her exercises are incredibly effective for singers. They’re old fashioned voice drills with soulful creativity. Love her. And not expensive! However- your demonstration explains why I have a hard time hearing all the notes in her runs. Note compression. Her classes all come with online sheet music though. But yes- I heard the difference.
@@wingsofpegasusunderstood! I see this on The Voice where perfectly good singers are accused of being pitchy by judges who are using autotuned standards that they use for themselves.
I think pitch correcting the exercise is fine but I would like a disclaimer. Treat it like Karaoke: the recording is an ideal to aspire to but it's fine to make mistakes while joining in. I can see the value in doing an exercise and knowing that if you hear an off-note (or jsut slightly sharp or flat) then you know it's your own voice because the exercise video is perfectly on-pitch. A disclaimer along the lines of "This exercise has been pitch corrected for an ideal example but don't worry about your own voice making errors when practicing".
The pitch correction is a problem. BUT WHY DA BOXING GLOVES? I ain't never having an in-person lesson with someone who is all primed up to give me a left jab when I slip out of tune. Plot twist, maybe it wasn't Chris Brown who did that to Rihanna? Did she ever have singing lessons with this woman? There needs to be an investigation :D
so many people dont understand that all record labels are forcing pitch correction on every artist in their catalog not because they are singing out of key or anyhting like that, it is all about artificiall y tuning the vocal to the ISO 440hz grid, and to eliminate all microtonal human characteristics of the voice, they have already done it to all instruments only the voice is left so they are literally sabotaging the entire world library of music in order to standardize everything. These are all military mind control tactics they have been on this thing since world war 2 theres no wonder why the UN created the ISO not even ten years later. yea, its stupid AF, so the only thing u can do as a human is to make sure u stay away from 440 hz.
If I saw a vocal coach calling out her vocal example as being PITCH CORRECTED, I think I would question her credibility as a vocal coach. An analogy would be….do I want to take tennis lessons from someone that has never won a tennis tournament before or would I feel more confident taking lessons from Rafa Nadal?
It's not slander when you're correct, but aren't you worried about getting sued anyway? Sometimes people do this just because they feel humiliated and/or angry about a loss of income. Watching this makes me anxious for you.
It's an objective analysis as all of my videos are, however people feel subjectively about the data I can't control. Being sued and court cases aren't based on feelings, they're based on facts, if everyone sued everyone else because of their feelings then the court system would collapse, and a verdict would never be reached as it'd be physically impossible to quantify feelings as evidence rather than objective facts and data. Ultimately, all that's happened is I've been asked a question and I've answered it, so it's not really something to base a law suit on. As already mentioned, if lawsuits were filed for answering a question, they'd be endless!
@@wingsofpegasus Remember, I'm on your side. But people with money file law suits all the time. They know they won't win, but they cost the target of their anger a lot of money. They just want to hurt the other person. (I say this as a psychologist.) I''m very glad you haven't had to deal with this, and was just expressing my concern. But I'm glad you are fighting the good fight.
No I would not buy the course simply because I now know that it will be humanly impossible to perform what she pretends to be doing. If she can’t even perform it how can I ever expect to do it?
It is more important to encourage expression, uniqueness, and how to take care of your voice than to try to attain something that isn’t going to happen.
People might as well just train to their keyboards. Which I would probably end up doing rather than buying a pitch-corrected course. Because I would know that the teacher is in no position to teach me anything.
This vocal coach would irritate me. I did haveca vocal coach back in the 1970s who was one of the opera heavies from the previous 4 decades. She said to only do the exercises for about 10 minutes prior to performing. Her main point was to learn the songs and once you knew the song, then you could make the song your own, that is, your own interpretation. My vocal coach would not take a student under the age of 20 because she said that the voice, particularly the female voice is not mature enough and is liable to suffer long term damage.
Its youtube so we all have opinions but lets not act like Cheryl is just some youtuber vocal coach. Do you know her credentials! As a matter of fact not only does she do a great job with professional singers. She can actually sing and sounds great! Go Cheryl!!!!
@@Charlie.c19 Answer the question! Do you know her credentials? She has videos up from the beginnings of the channel that she is in a classroom setting using NO equipment. I don’t care what she uses. She is GREAT!
My take on this is that if you are telling the student to do something which not only they can't do but YOU can't do while pretending that you did it, that's not coaching because when the student says "Why can't I sound like you?" there's no answer that doesn't make you look like an idiot. It's like if I was hammering a nail into a plank of wood while telling my apprentice "This is what a screwdriver is for". What I'm describing and what I'm demonstrating are two different things, and if I'm *selling* that, then it's misrepresentation.
Ridiculous way of looking at this. Most people perform vocal warm ups to a piano. A tuned piano is going to be pitch perfect. She is instead using herself to show the exercises and she is the reference note. OF COURSE you pitch correct that. Do you want a bunch of students practicing scales that are 15-30 cents sharp or flat? How tf is that “deceptive”? That’s being responsible!
I don't think so, as there are a lot of musicians who are great teachers, and a lot of great musicians who are bad teachers. You can get both of course, I think the person's background/career can help make the decision. When I was 23 I started teaching guitar through requests from people who heard my playing, so it was an organic thing. But I guess them actually seeing me do it meant I couldn't fake it in any way. We are talking almost 20 years ago now, before the internet crazyness took off!
Man all I can say is try to find vocal coaches that are arent using as much prerecorded studio videos. Live or as close to it...idk Or if they speak and then actually begin to sing on the spot. But then even you dont know for sure. I mean there are things you can still learn sure but theres nothing like going to a coach in person. As long as they know what they're doing.
Coaching is one place live autotune is helpful. You have the tuned signal either in one ear, or lower in their monitor mix so they can adjust to the 'correct' note or at least figure out when they're really off. It's an easy way to get muscle memory for later untuned performances.
The trickstry doesn't just affect the immediate product--the recorded performance--but launches a whole corroding process that'll take its toll dwn the line. Just as with grammer checks on Microsoft Word folks became dyslectic, with every new imposition of preemptive machinery upon human skills, those same skills that are supposedly being perfected will become fewer and farther between before they go utterly devalued and hence virtually extinct from public space.
Maybe vocal coaches on the internet justify this, by saying, they want the student to hear the most precise note they should try to reach, so they are not confused when the teacher is off pitch. 🤔 Also again they maybe try to give as little things to hate as possible, bc online you will be exposed to so much hate for every minor insecurity. And that can hurt your business. Sad non the less...
Now we need to back down and moderate a little😊. She is an exellent singer. She is probably originally as precise as a human voice can and is supposed to be still sounding as a human. The problem is the criteria has been shifted to were a human voice is supposed to sound like a synth voice sample. Which is not precise at all. It's just weird and unnatural. In the same way as when a beautiful woman is photo corrected to look like a plastic Barbie doll🙄
Now we need to back down and moderate ourselves a little😊. She is an exellent singer. She is probably originally as precise as a human voice can be, while still sounding as a human. The problem is the criteria has been shifted to were a human voice is supposed to sound like a synth voice sample. Which is not precise at all. It's just weird and unnatural. In the same way as when a beautiful woman is photo corrected to look like a plastic Barbie doll🙄
Thanks for sharing your insight and wisdom about where the world of music instruction has gone to….sigh! I appreciate how you took a respectful yet objective approach towards Cheryl. I was almost flabbergasted that a vocal coach’s voice was pitch corrected in her instruction video-guess I shouldn’t be by now, eh? I took years of vocal lessons from different instructors, albeit before the world of the internet so maybe I’m a bit biased regarding these instructional videos, particularly if they’re being altered by pitch correction, overdubbed, and recorded into. What happened to, as Shakespeare said, “To thine own self be true?” Thanks for being true to music and yourself and for all you do! Rock on! 🎸
How is this not considered fraud? This is false advertising, where she is telling people to sing like this, do this, when she is not actually doing it. All recordings should have on the label that they are pitch corrected, that the vocals you are listening to is changed and "enhanced by computer programming. She might very well be a decent teacher, but she is teaching through use of fraudulent instructions. This is dishonest and seems like a money grab effort rather than getting paid for real teaching of how to train and use your voice.
I am a vocal teacher. Years ago I used to watch some of Cheryl's stuff but then I stopped when I noticed more and more sketchy things happening. This is flat out fraud. I make a point of telling my students that I don't expect them to be perfect because I'm not perfect. We are humans coming out robots so we don't do perfect. Also, many of her exercises are simply impractical. They are far too elaborate to be effective for a beginner. I'm a professional with decades of training and experience and I have a hard time keeping up with some of her stuff. It's a shiny package that will not produce anything of substance.
Pitch correcting is killing music. I can't stand it.
It’s not just the pitch correction, though. It’s also snapping all the instruments to a grid. It would be more accurate to say “Computers are killing music.”
The pendulum will swing back again.
@@IanPritchard When?
@@IanPritchard I hope you’re right, but technology, like the arrow of time, doesn’t go backwards (and yeah, I know some people who have meticulously trimmed beards and sip cognac and brandy that listen to vinyl records sometimes). We’re never going back to the time before smartphones, for example. IMO this tech, once made available, was impossible not to use (at first mostly for economic reasons), and is changing the way most listeners hear music. And AI will just accelerate that trend soon, erasing human artists entirely (they will be replaced by “pitch person” models, chosen for physical appearance, or even anime creations (look up Gorillaz)). For a while, there will be people who recall “flawed” performances fondly, but they will die out, and perhaps more importantly, stop buying music.
omg i didn't know she's sneaky and hiding secrets!!! omgggggggggg thank you for this channel exposing. you're saving lives!!!? what will happen now?
I see a clear, stark difference between a pop star using pitch correction and a vocal coach using it. The pop star leaves a bad taste in my mouth for seeming to “cheat,” but a vocal coach using pitch correction is committing fraud. It’s highly frustrating that we’ve come to this point…
And sad
Once a new technology is invented, it becomes exploited and can’t seem to be uninvented. At least I never seen it happen before. 25 years from now nobody will know what a real singer sounds like. Too bad.
@@johndelconte9915
"25 years from now nobody will know what a real singer sounds like."
This is what scares me. Kids will grow up not even knowing anything different. As a music love as well as an amateur singer, I find that horrifying.
They're both committing fraud, the pop star is Madoff fraud on a global scale.
Pretty soon there'll be an AI plugin for Cheryl too :)
Some recent music research has shown that our brains prefer a little inaccuracy over perfect ratios.
Absolutely! It's like looking at a * perfect * face it's too hard to look at. We're imperfect beings who thrive on a little imperfection.
I think this is being trained out of people when it comes to music appreciation. Look at the massive success of heavily corrected music like Home Free or Pentatonix, or of shows like The Voice, or even the more subtly corrected artists like Taylor Swift (or nearly anyone else releasing music today-check out the massive pitch correction (and other processing) on The Rolling Stones last record (and yes, Mick Jagger is really old, but his success was nearly entirely due to the incredible character(s) revealed by his imperfect (usually flat) singing). Go listen to indie icon Liz Phair’s debut record, “Exile in Guyville.” Could that happen now? Seems impossible. It sounds over-dramatic, but I think this technology will take a part of our humanity away, and it will never return. But then I’m a singer songwriter, and my pitch is just ok ; )
@@greggorsag9787 you took the words right out of my mouth.
OF COURSE WE DO.
I used to work for one of these RUclips vocal coaches. This person definitely pitch corrects, but I honestly think it’s pretty common with these type of channels. It’s obviously dishonest, particularly in exercises focused on improving your pitch, but I understand wanting the exercise to sound “perfect” in order to sell the product, lessons, what have you.
Oh, this is flat-out deceiving to the potential student and quite unethical. The idiom “buyer beware” definitely applies to this lady’s singing course. 😡
how is it deceiving lmfao it just helps them know which notes theyre supposed to sing in the exercises
are you saying this is a scam!?! omg i can't believe this? famous ppl are allllllllll so bad!! you're right!
@@cupidok2768 how is this a scam lmfao her videos are warm ups, great exercises for singers, she uses pitch correction so beginners know exactly what notes to hit. Why would it matter.... the exercises still work lmfao
My answer to your question would be: yes it would make a difference and change my opinion if the vocal lesson I was buying stated it was pitch corrected. Pitch correction does not "perfect" the singers voice, it takes out all the emotions and the feelings of the singers natural voice. I agree, "Get it out of perfection and into expression"! Thank you, Fil, for another excellent analysis!
This is sad, because like you say, she can teach. It's a reflection on our society as a whole, and we saw it with the idea that even models weren't beautiful enough and must be photoshopped to be "perfect" and that led to people using filters on social media, and now pitch correction so everyone sounds "perfect, " or at least perfectly similar. Eventually everyone is going to sound the same and look the same, it seems.
I feel like you're shifting the blame away from the bad actors onto society. Ultimately everyone is responsible for their own actions. This "vocal coach" is a fraud deceiver, and poor excuse for a human being.
ha ha ha ha ha.good job Fil. how i wish all her subscribers would watch this video. She might be a good teacher but she should be ashamed of herself. In my opinion this is nothing less than fraud, pitch corrected and drop ins. disgusting
If I were taking a course from someone who was doing this, it would be extremely difficult for me not to feel disillusioned. There's something about a vocal coach running exercises through pitch correction software while saying "be precise" that just reeks of being laughed at and lied to. And apparently she's a good enough singer and teacher to not have to resort to this kind of chicanery. If you're a vocal coach, and you're doing this, and your students aren't told at any point that you're using pitch correction software, and that people don't actually sing like that, then you're actively cheating them.
She seems to be a good teacher with a lovely voice. Too bad she feels the need to resort to false advertising (or worse, fraud) to sell her service.
OMG! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I requested you to do this, and you answered my prayers! 🙏 I’m so so glad you’ve put the spotlight on this particular vocal coach. I called her out in the her comment sections on a few of her videos for *exactly this* when I discovered her several months ago.
I genuinely agree with you- I think she has a fantastic personality, and an incredible natural voice. But quite frankly, I think what she does when she doctors her own vocals, *on vocal exercise videos* -is completely fraudulent.
she is also not that great at using the pitch correction software itself (assuming she is the one who is actually editing the vocals). You can hear not only how some notes have been shifted so drastically, it seems to warp the formant on them, but also how the variation on certain staccato notes has been flattened to the point where it just sounds robotic.
Alternative perspective: isn’t it better to demonstrate the perfect reference notes on an exercise video?
Would you rather train your ear and voice to a what you know the perfect note is? Or to a reference note that is occasionally going to be 15-30 cents off.
Most people perform exercises like this to an instrument. Her goal is that you follow along.
Personally, it makes perfect sense why you would pitch correct practice videos.
I notice some of the comments defend the practice as setting a standard reference and train the ear/voice. I argue against that too:
Singing slightly out of standardized pitch is not a mistake. In fact, the musical ear/voice doesn't work like the tempered piano and will naturally tend towards good ratios like 2/3 for a perfect fifth and 1/2 for a perfect octave. But that's not how the piano is tuned: ever since Bach it's "tempered" to remove the Pythagorean comma (apologies for being smartypants here). This is why it's so hard to tune a guitar by ear while fretting the 5th fret (and that bloody 4th fret for the B): the better your musical ear, the more you will go slightly out of tune. Eventually you compromise by minimizing the error on different tone distances - which is equivalent to tempering. This is also why choirs go out of tune with an orchestra (but will notice and adjust) and why, in the pre-tempered era, orchestras would tune their instruments towards the key of the piece - and often still do.
It's not only physically impossible, as Fil points out, to replicate standardized tuning, it's also leading away from actual musicality - even if hitting perfect fifths and perfect octaves all the time is also impossible.
Thank you for posting that. The more I learn, the more I realize what I don’t know. And I’m a worn out old geezer with a renewed interest in music.
Absolutely agree! In the old days, the slight imperfections were part of music. Every violinist knows that the leading tone is slightly higher than a semi tone below the root, and singers should apply this, too.
i can't believe it. everyone is happy this channel is exposing this scam?!! what will happen now? is this guy sueing?
It makes a huge difference for me. I'm disappointed because I watch her. If she can't do the whole phrase without blocking it, if I were a student, I'd be thinking "what chance do I have?!!" And, of course, it's dishonest!
Don't worry, what he says there is only half true. Drop ins in recordings are done in a way you don't hear the breath. On the other hand, it's natural for some breath to leave the mouth if you set an impulse. So it's either a verrrryyyyy bad drop in recording, or an absolutely normal thing to do for a singer. This guy chose the option for himself that matched his opinion. That's all.
Yeah you can hear the pitch correction INSTANTLY. All of these 'coaches' and 'influencers' and all the Internet is faked.
are you faked too, then?
Present company excepted!
@@martyndawson7484No, Fil is an AI construct sent back in time to warn us.
@@martyndawson7484 -- And the truth in your comment...ACCEPTED. ;-). Sorry, couldn't resist riffing off you.
Agreed, I thought it sounded like a robot immediately, without having a great ear for vocals.
The sad thing is that not only is she a good teacher, but she ends up affirming and encouraging her young students to copy the autotuned vocal timbre. All my voice teachers who work with CCM (commercial contemporary music....basically everything but classical) as well as opera complain about this....their young CCM students consciously or subconsciously copy the bright, nasal, autotuned quality they are hearing on pop songs. And want to sing that way, instead of finding their own unique sound.
This is heartbreaking. I used to be a follower of hers, and I loved watching her vocal exercises. But now that I know this, I no longer feel right supporting her. I think people should start unfollowing the people who use pitch correction like this, cuz that's the only way to send the message that we dont like it. If enough people started unfollowing, that is.
Grrrrr. This makes me so mad. I’ve been teaching music for years. Each year is more of a struggle to compete with online ‘quick-fix/minimum-effort’ Apps, you tube instructors etc, especially trying to rebuild post-COVID. It’s so unbelievably demoralising & now we’ve got to contend with vocal coaches using pitch correction. Great, Eye-opening video FIL. I just don’t get it tho. She’s obviously a really good teacher so why the pitch correction. It’s taking over everywhere.
Exactly. Hearing her sing without the pitch correction, just begs the question, why? It's crazy.
Probably so the student has a reference that isn't off pitch. wild guess.
@@manuelandremusic OMG THANK YOU!!
thats what im trying to understand here!
Is everyone saying she should be putting out vocal exercises that are "attainable so not on perfect pitch"
I would love the input of an actual music teacher here because i did purchase her courses and would love an opinion of a profesional teacher before i start them
@@denuitsmoongardens8474my vocal teacher actually used her exercises regularly for warmup with me. That’s how I got to know her. I love the workouts and her energy. And I don’t feel offended by her making the vocals pitch perfect. If you hear the exercise daily, it’s not just training for the voice, but also for the ears. And I want to train my ears with „correct“ notes.
@@manuelandremusic exactly! Im going to tag you in a reply to what i said about all this to the creator- i think it makes sense
Busted.
I wouldn't buy a vocal coaches lessons if the lessons are pitch corrected. This is cheating. It is a travesty for musical ethics. Thanks for bringing this to light, Fil.
So you want to do exercises to reference notes that aren’t pitch perfect? That doesn’t make any sense at all.
If I’m going to watch a vocal exercise video that I use to warm up everyday, I would prefer that all of the reference notes are pitch perfect. It’s a better way to train your ear and know how far off you are.
She’d be doing people a bigger disservice if she was releasing exercise videos where random notes were 15-30 cents off. That in itself would be negligent for someone with her level of influence.
This is really a stretch criticism.
Yes, agree. It is misleading. I think it's ridiculous, myself. Whatever happened to hard work, originalty, and individuality? Sad...
I have left comments on a number of vocal coach reaction videos to the effect that they were reacting to a vocal that was autotuned or pitch corrected--they seem oblivious to it or they don't care. I don't think I've gotten a response--maybe one said thank you for your comment or something.
Great job, once again, Fil. It's bad enough when a "singer" is pitch corrected. I put quotation marks around singer because we don't know if they can really sing or not if their vocals are artificially dragged onto the note. A vocal teacher pitch correcting their voice to sell their course is outrageous! If they're not showing their true voices to prospective students, while intimating that the students will sound similar to them after spending, I surmise, hundreds of dollars, it's fraudulent. One IS NOT a good vocal teacher if one is trying to gain students by presenting something that is impossible to attain with a natural voice with the pretense that people who buy the course will sound as perfect because of the training.
She only uses it for her vocal exercises- he even points out shes not using it in her videos of working with students in real time
I didnt see him clock her for using it anywhere else- although i have commented that exact question
Fil, if this was not so sad, it would be funny ! I saw your eye rolls, and I feel the same way about this one! Thank you for showing the little girl , she does have a great sound ! Now, I am going to bang my head into the wall to try to erase the pitch corrected vocal teacher part of this analysis! Did your brass key fall off the wall ? Great job, Fil on this one ! 💜
" Do you hear that pitch correction, that is crazy" and I have to agree with you on that one. It is deceiving and would definitely influence my decision. Great analysis Fil. 😊🎸🎵
I'm probably going to catch some heat for my comment. I have no music training, I sing for fun. I came across Cheryl's vocal exercises about 2yrs ago. I didn't know they were pitch corrected and I don't care that they are. I use them about 4xs a week while driving. I learn by mimicking the sound. After watching Fil's analysis I actually appreciate knowing that what I'm listening to is what the note should sound like. Warming up my vocals using Cheryl's vids, I am under no dilution that I will be a superstar 😂, but the exercises have helped me from clearing out a room and having people run for the exits. Should it be disclosed, probably. Y'all can debate among yourselves. Thank for another great vid, Fil.
tired of these scammers 😑 don't know who to trust anymore
Whyyyyy???😢😢😢😢 She is a vocal beast..she can switch from gospel belting to crooning to a really great operatic spinto soprano...she lives in Italy (the land and culture of opera and belcanto)and was musically educated in the states etc...she KNOWS, how to sing...I love her videos...it seems, that EVERYBODY today is unsure about their ability and has to "correct" itt technically
How do you know you've ever heard her sing without pitch correction though? All her videos on YT are likely pitch-corrected.
@@trekkiejunk there are live videosof her singing
@@idankoos4156Live vocal performances can be pitch corrected.
@@Tat2Dragonsyou can tell it’s not pitch corrected.
I used to be subscribed to Cheryl and I'm surprised about this! She has 10.6M subscribers!!!! Wow! Thanks for doing this Fil. You can't even trust singing teachers! No I wouldn't buy the course if the exercises have been pitch corrected!
Love the eye roll, Fil! 🙄😂
We always know that we're going to get a couple of good eye rolls in these pitch correction videos. 😂
I did exactly the same eye roll. 🙄
I think its here to stay unfortunately & it won't change. Thanks for informing us Fil😊🌃✨️🎼
An absolutely fascinating video, Fil. I know very little about singing technique but I could watch you explaining this stuff for hours!
Singing is about expression!! Feeling what you are singing is so important to the delivery.
It's like a maths teacher getting a professor to check his calculations before he starts the lesson but pretending to do it in his head.
i always say that about teachers when they criticize their students for being wrong on the spot.
@@pashon4percushonMy old physics teacher would give marks for using equations correctly even if you ended up with a wrong answer.
@@martyndawson7484 I was notorious for that. Somehow 2x3 frequently equaled 5, but 2+3 would equal 6.
@@martyndawson7484i had some physics instructors like that. Probably about 90% of the students in my classes never understood physics and would run out the class.
@@StanEnglandthats math, he's talking about physics. Such as F= G(m1m2)/r^2
Fil I applause your relentless effort in seeking honesty in all aspect of the music industry. you're top in my book! Sir, 👍
Ok. Now I understand so much better... I try to learn to sing since 2 months ( never try before ) and everyone sound "electronic", even coatch...
If you cant trust a coach to NOT pitch correct. The steps up are just too perfect, but you can pick up a "buzz"
She is probably a great vocalist but to keep it "precise" using a bit of software 🤷♂
If I buy pitch correction I really dont need to buy anything else let alone her course. .
Very interesting video 2x👍
Absolutely changes my option of a singer when they use pitch correction and a vocal coach using it and take exercises would not even consider her
It's propagating a falsehood, it's being dishonest and unrealistic......can you imagine Paul Rodgers using pitch correction, it would ruin his uniqueness....or Robert Plant !!
I can't imagine what a corrected Plant would sound like!...
I think there's a case to be made for pitch correcting an exercise that's about pitch accuracy, because the pitch corrected voice is standing in for a piano as a reference.
I think it would be better to hear the note on an actual instrument so you don’t ruin your ear for the natural voice.
@@M0odyBlue You make a good point. She certainly should have disclosed it, in order not to set unrealistic expectations.
Im shocked at how many people dont seem to understand that singing the note in that pitch IS THE POINT OF THE EXERCISE"
In a perfect world would it always be her being on pitch with any auto tuning- but i honestly understand using the help of a program because it might take a ridiculous amount of time to record every single video with flawless pitch!
The woman has real students to teach and a life!
Only if she got defensive or weird ahout it would this be a problem in my opinion
@@M0odyBlue most exercises start out with the instrument but you need to also hear exactly your supposed to be doing with your voice- ESPECIALLY when your not able to get in person corrections
Well to be fair in a vocal exercise you want to be as close to perfect pitch as possible so the student can hear the pitch they need to hit. It may be a good thing she does that tbh.
It struck me as wrong to be teaching the girl to imitate Whitney's expression. Teach breath control, tone, etc. and encourage her to find her own expression eventually. Yes, there ought to be a label or disclaimer, so people know when pitch-correction has been applied. Great analysis, even if a bit of a bummer in the findings of drop-ins and pitch-correction.
To be fair, that's not what she was doing with that kid. I've seen a few vids with her, and she's actually performing professionally - so she's not being taught to mimic anyone, the WH song was just used as a teaching tool for certain techniques.
Emulating or "mimicing" other singers is something almost all vocal teachers do because its a helpful and useful vocal exercise. Being able to in a sense "try on" different voices really helps in figuring out not only what are capable of- but also what makes your voice uniquely your own
I have so many questions. Why do half of these sound like a cat food commercial, sans cats, and the other half sound like canned 80s pop? That aside, with regard to the question of whether it would change my opinion of the course, yes it would. I wonder if someone would see this, attempt the exercises, not be able to hit the notes, and then assume they need the paid course to learn to hit the notes?
It's like these stars that lose 40 pounds in a half a year and say they just changed their diet and did some exercise--well maybe, but maybe they had a little extra help.
Wow. It seems we have reached a new level of fakery in the music business. With rare exceptions, i don't buy music recorded after the mid-90's anymore.
I actually think it makes sense to use pitch correction so the student is attempting to match the perfect note and not a slightly off one. If the teacher is slightly flat, and the student attempts to replicate the note, but is also on the flat side, the student's note may be noticeablely flat. I do think there should be some sort of notice, but rather than just "this vocal example has been pitch corrected," I think there should be a paragraph at the beginning with a more detailed explanation that precise is being within a range around the note because perfection isn't possible. I suspect, with an explanation, if she offered both an original and pitch corrected version for each exercise, students would opt for the pitch corrected ones even if they had difficulty telling the difference between the two. It'd be really fun if you worked together so the explanation had great visuals or if she could link a relevant video of yours. Thanks for your breakdown.
It's blatantly obvious. It sounds so robotic. This is beginning to become rather pathetic. May as well buy an old Casio SK-1 from the 80's and sing a note into it and then just play it back on the keys. It will be just as annoying and robotic.
I don't know how else you can say it, this is sad. It makes me frustrated that kids are gonna hear this and not know the difference
never in my life have i expected a vocal teacher to be literally perfect. the point of exercises is to improve, not achieve perfection.
I think I saw her in a commercial for sore throat medicine. I reconized her face with voice. It helps knowing that no amount of lessons will get you to sing a perfect pitch but a good teacher will teach you how to use the voice you have and you'll have your own style. How to spend your money wisely 👍🙂👍
Btw, I d absolutely love it (and yes, I know Fil has tons of requests, so that is why I don t even dare to mail him, just leaving a comment here) if he could do an analysis of Tom Chaplin (singer in Keane, and singer of amazing covers and some great solo stuff), as he is, imho, the antithesis of pitch correction: i am 99% sure he does not use it; he has a naturally high key, which is remarkable in itself, and even more incredible that he managed to keep it, considering some almost deathly times he faced with substance abuse. Listening to him performing, for instance, some Queen songs, is out of this world😃🥰❤👏👏. It is one of those cases that you may or may not like his voice and style, but it is undeniable he is a brilliant singer.👍
Yes! Thank you for this. I came across her last year, and immediately felt that what she was doing was dishonest. So many young people seemed to follow her and praise her and her students, and not even realise that there is heavy effects, and pitch correction in her videos. People don't sound like this in natural circumstances.
I see your complaint now. You are complaining about the difference between what she is selling versus what she is teaching. I get it, but I do understand Cheryl’s attempt to provide a perfect example for the student to try to achieve. I don’t know why she would ever use pitch correction, she is a powerhouse singer and doesn’t need any pitch correction for anything!
I see the issue with pitch correction, it assumes perfection can be standardized, mechanized, dimensionalized. In reality perfection is "infinity. It can't be defined, standardized or duplicated, it's always original without exception ! Never the same, twice.
It makes sense to perfect these exercises that people are supposed to do over and over.
That way students don't train their ear and singing on some mistake that gets repeated far more than if the repetitions were done during different live lessons.
Good points! Not sure if I agree but at least made me think about it. I'd like to hear Fil respond!
Not sure I agree. Does the exercises really make sense if the professional is not able to properly replicate it on a recording?. It seems to me it would make more sense to learn an exercise at a level where you can reasonably replicate it as a student and then turn up the difficulty by speeding up or adding new wrinkles.
Ear training is important. Guitar teachers also tune the guitar before practicing even if the G string will never sound as accurate during a show. And most singing teachers use instruments to teach scales, because they produce superhuman pitch.
Singing slightly out of pitch is not a mistake. In fact, the musical ear/voice doesn't work like the tempered piano and will naturally tend towards good ratios like 2/3 for a perfect fifth and 1/2 for a perfect octave. But that's not how the piano is tuned: ever since Bach it's "tempered" to remove the Pythagorean comma (apologies for being smartypants here). This is why it's so hard to tune a guitar by ear while fretting the 5th fret (and that bloody 4th fret for the B): the better your musical ear, the more you will go slightly out of tune. This is also why choirs go out of tune with an orchestra (but will notice and adjust) and why, in the pre-tempered era, orchestras would tune their instruments towards the key of the piece - and often still do.
It's not only physically impossible, as Fil points out, to replicate standardized tuning, it's also leading away from actual musicality - even if hitting perfect fifths and perfect octaves all the time is also impossible.
Singing slightly out of pitch the exact same way for an exercise you listen to and do 100s of times is a mistake and as artificial as auto-tune (since repeating is also unnatural)
I watched Micheal Jackson's vocal exercises on You Tube some years ago and it was more realistic than this video. It kinda made me wanna join in.
I’ve been watching a lot these videos and I still struggle hearing pitch correction. However even I could immediately hear it in the first example!
The ironic thing is that it’s very possible to do subtle pitch correction without giving it all away. It also sounds a lot more natural that way, not that a vocal coach should ever WANT to use it.
So here’s the thing as a trained vocalist, the goal is for the vocalist to hear the right pitch and try to emulate it. You’ve said yourself that no voice is perfect so for me, I just need to hear the right notes in order to be able to try to hit that note. So it may seem fraudulent but I’m ok with that because we’re trying to recreate the right pitch. Listening to a tuned piano or keyboard is way better for vocal exercises but Cheryl uses her pitched voice recordings instead. It is what it is. I appreciate that you show she’s not perfect but for exercises, I understand it. And, I agree that so many artists are pitch fixing their professional vocals and that sucks. I recently recorded myself and I didn’t fix pitches because I want to sound like myself. But I did what seemed like a million takes to get the best recording I could.
Thank you! I agree with this
I'd be in agreement of it was made transparent and labelled as pitch corrected for accurancy instead of using a piano. Or ok if she records something hundreds of times to get it right. Not saying makes ppl for something impossible.
Absolutely amazing video. Mind blown.
It's going to get to the stage where we're listening to A.I. the way it's headed. The stuff of nightmares.
That is exactly where it's going.
Pitch correction sets unfair goal + no one expects a coach to be perfect, it's the teaching skill that matters.
Thanks for not letting go of this issue, Fil. Stancy
Of course, if there was a disclaimer onscreen letting me know that Cheryl's vocals during the lessons were pitch corrected, I'd be putting my debit card away and taking a pass on the course.
It's illegal (here in Canada, anyway), for example, to sell a tea with echinacea and vitamin C and claim that it will cure your colds. Companies can't make claims about what their product can do if it can't actually do that thing. How is this any different?? If she says, or if people can reasonably infer from something she does or doesn't say, that taking her courses will teach you to sing as accurately as she does in her lessons, then that is definitely misleading. In fact, it's flat out lying, and I don't see how using pitch corrected vocals is of any benefit at all in this case. If Cheryl has a great voice, then it would benefit the students taking the courses to see that even a great singer sings sharp and flat. To see that even a great singer doesn't have a "perfect" voice.
I agree with that. Over here we have laws against misleading advertisement as well. It's downright fraudulous.
Wow!😮… I never knew Cheryl Porter used auto tuning in her vocal exercises… this is crazy! Why?!… I’m speechless😶
Manufactured singing so everyone sounds like the standard unit just like bottles coming out of a factory are all perfect according to the standard of the bottle template. If you want a unique bottle, you have to go to a glass blowing artisan but this bottle will be slightly imperfect and the artist will never be able to replicate this specific bottle again. That's why having a unique piece is worth more bc it's the only one. The pitch correction of voices is like going from the great value of craftsmanship to the lesser value of manufacturing. It's killing the living essence from our lives, they do it with everything from the standard face of plastic surgery to standard carrots and apples at the supermarket. What is not standard is rejected.
Hi Fil,
Oh My! After watching this video, I feel so blessed to have had some wonderful vocal teachers/coaches. This was a very eye opening analysis. I can only think of the saying: Buyer Be Ware. Thanks for doing this one… Debbie☮️
Your analysis is fantastic. Spot on. Thank you.
Before standardized tuning of 440hz every country and village had their unic frequencies. All those are "out of tune" now. I like to use 450hz tuning in my music. Growing used to 440hz and then suddenly hearing 450hz makes it pop out for people, at least for me i like it. It has a certain feeling to it. Historical pitch has been all over the place between about 415hz-465hz. Now it's all 440hz stuck on the lines autotune and boring
Fil, I want to ask if you can look at and maybe consider interviewing legendary coach and singer here in Los Angeles, Stephanie Spruill. In the 1970s Stephanie sang back up for Glen Campbell. You can hear her whistle register in his cover of God Only Knows. Even though she is not well known to the general public, interviews with her at the Grammy Museum were sold out. Great coaches are beloved in this town, which is hard on the confidence of even the greatest performers. Spruill is now 74 but it seems like she is doing well, as she just did a live show at Herb Alpert's "Vibrato Lounge." To my ear, Spruill is great singer.
Thank you for sharing this, it is important for everyone to know, because music is an important part of cultural foundation of the society
I have her courses and pitch correction or not- her exercises are incredibly effective for singers. They’re old fashioned voice drills with soulful creativity. Love her. And not expensive!
However- your demonstration explains why I have a hard time hearing all the notes in her runs. Note compression. Her classes all come with online sheet music though. But yes- I heard the difference.
Yes as I state in the video she's an amazing teacher, I still have to be objective though with the analysis request as I am with all of them 🙂
@@wingsofpegasusunderstood! I see this on The Voice where perfectly good singers are accused of being pitchy by judges who are using autotuned standards that they use for themselves.
If you have ever listened to just about any Beatles isolated vocal, they are not accurate. It's the MIX that counts.
Spot on.
I think pitch correcting the exercise is fine but I would like a disclaimer. Treat it like Karaoke: the recording is an ideal to aspire to but it's fine to make mistakes while joining in. I can see the value in doing an exercise and knowing that if you hear an off-note (or jsut slightly sharp or flat) then you know it's your own voice because the exercise video is perfectly on-pitch. A disclaimer along the lines of "This exercise has been pitch corrected for an ideal example but don't worry about your own voice making errors when practicing".
I think you should analyze Celtic Woman. (Pretty sure I know how it’s gonna go but still.)
The pitch correction is a problem. BUT WHY DA BOXING GLOVES? I ain't never having an in-person lesson with someone who is all primed up to give me a left jab when I slip out of tune.
Plot twist, maybe it wasn't Chris Brown who did that to Rihanna? Did she ever have singing lessons with this woman? There needs to be an investigation :D
so many people dont understand that all record labels are forcing pitch correction on every artist in their catalog not because they are singing out of key or anyhting like that, it is all about artificiall y tuning the vocal to the ISO 440hz grid, and to eliminate all microtonal human characteristics of the voice, they have already done it to all instruments only the voice is left so they are literally sabotaging the entire world library of music in order to standardize everything. These are all military mind control tactics they have been on this thing since world war 2 theres no wonder why the UN created the ISO not even ten years later. yea, its stupid AF, so the only thing u can do as a human is to make sure u stay away from 440 hz.
If I saw a vocal coach calling out her vocal example as being PITCH CORRECTED, I think I would question her credibility as a vocal coach. An analogy would be….do I want to take tennis lessons from someone that has never won a tennis tournament before or would I feel more confident taking lessons from Rafa Nadal?
It's not slander when you're correct, but aren't you worried about getting sued anyway? Sometimes people do this just because they feel humiliated and/or angry about a loss of income. Watching this makes me anxious for you.
It's an objective analysis as all of my videos are, however people feel subjectively about the data I can't control. Being sued and court cases aren't based on feelings, they're based on facts, if everyone sued everyone else because of their feelings then the court system would collapse, and a verdict would never be reached as it'd be physically impossible to quantify feelings as evidence rather than objective facts and data. Ultimately, all that's happened is I've been asked a question and I've answered it, so it's not really something to base a law suit on. As already mentioned, if lawsuits were filed for answering a question, they'd be endless!
@@wingsofpegasus Remember, I'm on your side. But people with money file law suits all the time. They know they won't win, but they cost the target of their anger a lot of money. They just want to hurt the other person. (I say this as a psychologist.) I''m very glad you haven't had to deal with this, and was just expressing my concern. But I'm glad you are fighting the good fight.
Unbelievable! False advertising her coaching Business!!! Makes me ill. Thank you for uncovering this fraudulent business.
Singing in tune is not rocket science. You just have to pitch the note.
No I would not buy the course simply because I now know that it will be humanly impossible to perform what she pretends to be doing. If she can’t even perform it how can I ever expect to do it?
It seems after learning so much from your videos, our culture seems with doing what ever it takes to sell something.
It is more important to encourage expression, uniqueness, and how to take care of your voice than to try to attain something that isn’t going to happen.
People might as well just train to their keyboards.
Which I would probably end up doing rather than buying a pitch-corrected course. Because I would know that the teacher is in no position to teach me anything.
This vocal coach would irritate me.
I did haveca vocal coach back in the 1970s who was one of the opera heavies from the previous 4 decades. She said to only do the exercises for about 10 minutes prior to performing. Her main point was to learn the songs and once you knew the song, then you could make the song your own, that is, your own interpretation. My vocal coach would not take a student under the age of 20 because she said that the voice, particularly the female voice is not mature enough and is liable to suffer long term damage.
Simple answer - yes, I would be bothered. I sing but I don't do these exercises. I take my coaching in person.
Oh my god...oh noooo,...why does she does this ???
Its youtube so we all have opinions but lets not act like Cheryl is just some youtuber vocal coach. Do you know her credentials! As a matter of fact not only does she do a great job with professional singers. She can actually sing and sounds great! Go Cheryl!!!!
So why does she use pitch correction?
@@Charlie.c19 Answer the question! Do you know her credentials? She has videos up from the beginnings of the channel that she is in a classroom setting using NO equipment. I don’t care what she uses. She is GREAT!
My take on this is that if you are telling the student to do something which not only they can't do but YOU can't do while pretending that you did it, that's not coaching because when the student says "Why can't I sound like you?" there's no answer that doesn't make you look like an idiot. It's like if I was hammering a nail into a plank of wood while telling my apprentice "This is what a screwdriver is for". What I'm describing and what I'm demonstrating are two different things, and if I'm *selling* that, then it's misrepresentation.
Ridiculous way of looking at this.
Most people perform vocal warm ups to a piano. A tuned piano is going to be pitch perfect.
She is instead using herself to show the exercises and she is the reference note. OF COURSE you pitch correct that.
Do you want a bunch of students practicing scales that are 15-30 cents sharp or flat?
How tf is that “deceptive”? That’s being responsible!
" Pitched Course Selection ! "
Is there some sort of certifying body to determines who is qualified to be a vocal coach?
I don't think so, as there are a lot of musicians who are great teachers, and a lot of great musicians who are bad teachers. You can get both of course, I think the person's background/career can help make the decision. When I was 23 I started teaching guitar through requests from people who heard my playing, so it was an organic thing. But I guess them actually seeing me do it meant I couldn't fake it in any way. We are talking almost 20 years ago now, before the internet crazyness took off!
Man all I can say is try to find vocal coaches that are arent using as much prerecorded studio videos.
Live or as close to it...idk
Or if they speak and then actually begin to sing on the spot.
But then even you dont know for sure.
I mean there are things you can still learn sure but theres nothing like going to a coach in person.
As long as they know what they're doing.
I think she does it so ppl who practice can practice on pitch rather than her mistakes. Even if she's off a little.
Coaching is one place live autotune is helpful. You have the tuned signal either in one ear, or lower in their monitor mix so they can adjust to the 'correct' note or at least figure out when they're really off.
It's an easy way to get muscle memory for later untuned performances.
Blimey. However did I learn to sing in tune without it? LOL
Love your channel Fil!
The trickstry doesn't just affect the immediate product--the recorded performance--but launches a whole corroding process that'll take its toll dwn the line. Just as with grammer checks on Microsoft Word folks became dyslectic, with every new imposition of preemptive machinery upon human skills, those same skills that are supposedly being perfected will become fewer and farther between before they go utterly devalued and hence virtually extinct from public space.
Maybe vocal coaches on the internet justify this, by saying, they want the student to hear the most precise note they should try to reach, so they are not confused when the teacher is off pitch. 🤔
Also again they maybe try to give as little things to hate as possible, bc online you will be exposed to so much hate for every minor insecurity. And that can hurt your business.
Sad non the less...
@13:53 definitely a drop in
She says keep it precise, but she's not doing it herself!!
Says it to the engineer lol
Now we need to back down and moderate a little😊. She is an exellent singer. She is probably originally as precise as a human voice can and is supposed to be still sounding as a human. The problem is the criteria has been shifted to were a human voice is supposed to sound like a synth voice sample. Which is not precise at all. It's just weird and unnatural. In the same way as when a beautiful woman is photo corrected to look like a plastic Barbie doll🙄
Now we need to back down and moderate ourselves a little😊. She is an exellent singer. She is probably originally as precise as a human voice can be, while still sounding as a human. The problem is the criteria has been shifted to were a human voice is supposed to sound like a synth voice sample. Which is not precise at all. It's just weird and unnatural. In the same way as when a beautiful woman is photo corrected to look like a plastic Barbie doll🙄
never seen her live huh
@@manuelandremusic why use autotune if you can sing?
Thanks for sharing your insight and wisdom about where the world of music instruction has gone to….sigh! I appreciate how you took a respectful yet objective approach towards Cheryl. I was almost flabbergasted that a vocal coach’s voice was pitch corrected in her instruction video-guess I shouldn’t be by now, eh? I took years of vocal lessons from different instructors, albeit before the world of the internet so maybe I’m a bit biased regarding these instructional videos, particularly if they’re being altered by pitch correction, overdubbed, and recorded into. What happened to, as Shakespeare said, “To thine own self be true?” Thanks for being true to music and yourself and for all you do! Rock on! 🎸
How is this not considered fraud? This is false advertising, where she is telling people to sing like this, do this, when she is not actually doing it. All recordings should have on the label that they are pitch corrected, that the vocals you are listening to is changed and "enhanced by computer programming. She might very well be a decent teacher, but she is teaching through use of fraudulent instructions. This is dishonest and seems like a money grab effort rather than getting paid for real teaching of how to train and use your voice.
I am a vocal teacher. Years ago I used to watch some of Cheryl's stuff but then I stopped when I noticed more and more sketchy things happening. This is flat out fraud. I make a point of telling my students that I don't expect them to be perfect because I'm not perfect. We are humans coming out robots so we don't do perfect.
Also, many of her exercises are simply impractical. They are far too elaborate to be effective for a beginner. I'm a professional with decades of training and experience and I have a hard time keeping up with some of her stuff. It's a shiny package that will not produce anything of substance.