Rockstar describes ‘unforeseen failing' of post-Brexit touring difficulties | LBC
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Matthew Wright speaks to King Crimson's Jakko Jakszyk about the 'enormous pain' UK musicians face since Brexit when they go on tour in the European Union.
The frontman describes the 'substantial additional cost' of now having to apply for a visa to each separate EU country, and how passports would be kept at each embassy meaning that you could not apply for separate visas at the same time.
He adds it is 'short-sighted' not to consider British musicians in negotiations because the industry is not seen as part of the ‘normal world.’
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The British still haven't processed in their minds that they are not in the EU anymore, they still expect the same lifestyle.
For sure, that is because most not all think they are a little better then most !
What difference in lifestyle should I expect?
You should elaborate, you obviously know what's best for others.
@@blue_jay31 Of course, I'm not commenting in absolutes but generalising.
@@Aegmog You should expect the lifestyle of Eastern/Southern European countries who have had to overcome political/historical adversity, not that of an ex-colonial power, that is your future now.
@@Aegmog A poorer lifestyle for starters, in a country that has no more influence on its own continent and whose citizens now get fewer opportunities on their own continent than Romanian citizens. Serves you right. Haughtiness has a price.
Unforeseen? No. Very much predicted.
and deemed not important
FAKE NEWS, IT'S ALL JUST SCAREMONGERING.
🤦♂️
The "Remoaners" knew! 😅
As a touring DJ and musician with 20+ years of touring across europe, post Brexit, this disapeared overnight. As a record label owner virtually all european direct sales disapeared over night. I've seen too many of my peers with incredible talent throw in the towel in the last couple of years after decades of success in the music industry. Thankyou Brexit
Never to late to migrate to continental Europe, so you only finally have to get a single Visa if you wanna return to [that not so] Great Britain, instead of needing 27 Visas to be able to tour through Europe to make ends meet…
Unforeseen?! We were warning about this in 2016.
Project reality right once again
The UK will join the CPTPP soon, it’s the fastest growing large economy in Europe, the fastest growing in the G7, so it’s the best of both worlds. You can’t please all of the people all of the time.
@@aleph8888
If you look more into the details of the projected growth generated by membership of the CPTPP, It's negligible at best.
@@randomdaveUK
Way you go and put your mask on
The warnings were crystal clear. Too many people were ignorant or didn't bother to vote remain. Restricting immigration was also a big factor. Just look at how well that turned out.
@@wandeling127
Immigration was legally risen , could be stopped today if we wanted. What problems are we having here that aren’t happening anywhere else ? I’ll wait come on.
You left the EU. The EU looks after its members. What’s wrong about that?
nothing
They narcissistically wanted all the benefits of leaving without any of the consequences that came with it
Now they're upset with the consequences we all knew would happen but it fell on deaf ears.
The fact that it was still possible and encouraged for a long time to broker a deal with the EU before it left and arrogantly went for the "oven ready" no deal Brexit just shows you how incompetent the leadership was in steering the ship
This is not the EU's fault. It is the fault of a small people who told lies - and have done so since - and made a lot of money for themselves out of that. Brexit was built on lies - and the three results, loss of influence & respect, economic damage for the long-term and stresses leading to the eventual break up of the union were clear long before the vote.
Indeed, although these troubles for artists are not EU rules, they are individual countries.
The EU protects his own borders
These are the rules the UK helped generate to inflict on others, while in the EU.
Not EU rules - WTO rules. If you're not in the EU or any other trading block, these rules apply. It's not about any country inflicting them on others.
@@RobONeill-b5e The EU has rules that have nothing to do with the WTO. That's a big part if why it exists.
@yt.personal.identification the main reason it exists is to enable seamless trade between neighbouring European countries. And we decided to leave 🙂. Well perhaps some day we'll see the error of our ways
@@RobONeill-b5e Why did they need to if they had WTO rules?
Edit - see sarcasm..
I didn't think an explanation was required.
@yt.personal.identification do you really not know how EU membership saves us all from WTO rules? How about you listen to this video again or read around the subject a bit more?
Brexit was Britain's midlife crisis. We got an ear-piercing, bought a Ferrari with our savings, told the wife it was an investment and felt twenty five again. Now she's leaving us, the Ferrari turned out to be a battered old Toyota Yaris and the ear piercing's gone septic.
You were warned too, embarrassing. Not as embarrassing as losing Ulster to SF however.😂🇮🇪
Great imagery 👌🏻
@@Fishcake-y7v Save that tinfoil hat for roasting a chicken
political nihilism is not an enlightened position,
when are you chancers going to learn that actions have consequences
I think it was worse than a wildlife crisis - I think we have dementia and have thrown the baby out with the bath water!!!
Remember the Truth about the problems with leaving the EU was just dismissed by the brexiteers as Project Fear
Even now after all that has happened - brexiteers still cant accept they were sold a load of bull
Remember the truth about why Labour won and how they're failing already
David Cameron said we'd likely have a plane war in Europe and lo and behold he was proven right.
Like world war 3?
It was project reality.
This is horrendous. As a professional touring musician, I feel for all UK musicians who were intelligent enough to vote remain but didn't get the outcome they needed. There's no sugar-coating Brexit; it's an unmitigated disaster. It was an idiocy fuelled by outlandish fear-mongering and lies by a cohort of toffee-nosed zealots who prayed on the ignorance of a bewildered public. It was possibly the greatest own goal in human history.
It doesn't seem to have damaged the Farage's and Anderson's that much does it!.
If you think things worked prior to Brexit you have got be wearing rose tinted glasses. Brexit was a great check against the establishment, it sent the warning you can’t have a Ponzi scheme economy.
The working class working in factories, warehouses, distribution plants etc that saw their wages decrease due to the massive increase of workers from the EU
Childish exaggerations. The UK is the fastest growing economy in the G7. 😝
@@MRW515 Some facts showing cause and effect would increase the credibility of what you allege. Blaming 'foreigners' for the woes of the locals is a low blow as old as the hills and a favourite of failing governments and agitators. Dyson, Ratcliffe, Bloor and others have all moved most or all of their manufacturing to low wage countries post Brexit, which contradicts your argument. Have British workers wages gone up wonderfully since Brexit? All I see are strikes and shortages of workers.
I am from the US so Brexit is not really an issue here beyond hearing about it from time to time on the news. Of course, we have a plethora of our own problems here in the US. My experience with politicians is that they are constantly taking a complex issue and reducing it into a 2 sided question. Most issues are multi faceted in that they usually have many sides and nuances. However politicians will usually present it as 'this or that' in an argument. The result is that people will vote on an issue based more on propaganda than fact. The result is exactly what you people in Britian are going through now. You voted for an issue based on emotion and propaganda and are only now realizing the implications of that decision.
Actually, Brexit IS an issue here in the U.S., as in it's created a hardship for British musicians to the point some are throwing in the towel, meaning we can no longer enjoy their talents.
There was no 'unforeseen failing'. The UK electorate was warned but chose to dismiss it as 'project fear'.
The same rules have always applied to groups from third countries (e.g. USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Mexico etc.). As far as the EU is concerned it's nothing personal - GB is now a third country in relation to goods and the UK is now a third country in relation to labour, capital and services.
It was the UK, especially the English, electorate alone that decided all this has come to pass.
It is not just the vote. It is also the uncompromising "sovereignty is the last Brexit straw" mentality of the government after. Most other countries in similar circumstances (not part of the EU like Switzerland and Turkey) have extensive association treaties to alleviate some of the pain. This was brutally ignored by the government in the negotiations, and of course the British stance in those negotiations (including the risk of agreements being cancelled by sabre rattling Brexit ultras in parliament) didn't make any friends either.
The UK chose to leave the EU Customs Union. Had we stayed we wouldn't have been a "third country". The EU is behaving to the UK the same way as it does to all third countries. It has been a massive problem for my small company too. I yelled as loudly as possible that this was going to be a problem, but you'll recall how that was received.
and so it should its just the special snowflakes that are upset
@@graveperil2169 How is losing your rights, and complaining about it "being a snowflake"? I'm not angry at some pathetic wording about a report in The Daily Flail, nor am I angry at having a blue passport, or even at having Westminster write idiotic laws like having to go on a course to use a ladder, I am angry that I can't choose the country I live in, I'm angry that Farage duped so many people into voting for something that was so harmful.
You would apparently classify about 70% of the UK population as"snowflakes" yet I'm sure that you'd bust a blood vessel at the thought that transgender people should have the same rights as the rest of us. So who is the real "snowflake"?
BTW, what have the benefits of Brexit been? I don't live in the UK, but I do return quite regularly, and every time I return, it is more and more clear how much damage has been done in the name of your "taking back control". The shops of shoddy and dingy, product choice is limited, "fresh" produce is anything but, your roads are a disaster and your electricity prices are scandalous. Europeans using toll roads or getting parking tickets can't be pursued while UK residents can be by EU countries.
So what have the benefits of Brexit been?
@@graveperil2169 When was the democratic decision taken, to leave the Customs Union? I know the slogan, but that wasn't ever on the voting slip, was it.
@@wessexdruid7598 Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
The responses were:
1) Remain a member of the European Union
2) Leave the European Union
how it was implemented was up to the democratically elected UK government
@@wessexdruid7598 Leaving the EU automatically means leaving the Customs Union. The Customs Union is exclusive to EU members. Not even Norway or Switzerland are in it.
In what sense is any of this 'unforseen'? It wasn't a lack of foresight that caused the 17 million minority to vote leave, it was a lack of concern for the people it has inevitably harmed.
........ and believing the lies eg. the total population of Turkey were coming to the UK etc etc!
@@ralphhathaway-coley5460 'Project Fear'.
@@wessexdruid7598 Yep, that has not aged well, who'd have guessed that? ......... well other than the informed 48% of the those that voted.
People knew exactly what they were voting for but the betrayal of the politicians in seeing it through is why it's created such a mess
If economics drive your moral compass then you'll will never understand brexit.
It's not the EU being vindictive. These conditions are not new, they haven't been set up because the UK chose to leave the club. These are the conditions that apply to all 3rd countries, ever did. The UK _chose_ those conditions. That is to say, the UK chose to become a 3rd country---and nobody stopped you from checking what the conditions would be. It's not like it's a secret or anything... You didn't check? You didn't know? You simply assumed that everything will be just like before, all the benefits and none of the commitments? That you'll have the cake and eat it too? Yes, you did. But that's not the EU's fault. I wonder who's fault it might be...
Those conditions might have been mitigated if it was an economic powerhouse like the USA. The general public just wasn't aware of the state the country was in. Education engrained the idea of a glorious nation in them and they where never interested in updating their knowledge. Rightly so, as in a represented democracy persons of merit should be hired to understand the complex situation steering in line with the motivations of the general public, as the general public isn't equipped to understand (because of time, interest, intelligence or something else).
Brexit is a symptom of a failing political class. British politics is just a game for the Eton boys club, taking hints from the "above the law" aristocracy. Although it may all have been their intention all along. The whole political scam set up to protect the privileges of those who enjoy them since time immemorial. It's probably sheer luck they stayed on top so long, or would it?
@@dancingdoormanable Um, is that generated by a LLM? If not, what’s your point?
If it is, it’s a digital form of the next morning chipotle.
Another EU Citizen who is obssessed with
Brexit.??! I thought you had more important things to worry about ?? The two pro Rejoin parties in recent election both got nowhere ??! Hope that tells you something.
We might rejoin if you offer us the right
terms.......?? Otherwise Foxtrot Oscar.....!!
@@2msvalkyrie529 Who said anything about rejoining? The UK might _join_ . Not re-join, just join (again). And the terms for joining are well-known, just like the conditions of not being a member, as I said. Will you check this time? :-)
You still expect a red carpet, eh? You don’t learn, do you? It truly is fascinating, observing people like you. Not obsessed, no, but admittedly, I’m rather intrigued by the range of cognitive dysfunctions I find in Brexiteers. :-)
@@2msvalkyrie529Greetings from a Dutchmen. First of all, we warned you this would happen. Second: you can't just rejoin. You have to apply to join again. We in The Netherlands love to have you back because we see you as friends. But the UK also has to convince ALL the other EU countries. And this will be a long process. Not every country in the EU will be so friendly as us Dutchies. There will be strong demands and other agreements to let the UK back in. By the way, all of those rules you are now confronted with, where made when the UK was still part of the EU. You're past governments agreed on all of them. It's like he said. You had a Gold card but sadly 52% of you those to discard it and are now whining about it. Even blame the EU for regulations your own governments helped create.
If I remember correctly, the EU made a proposal to the Johnson government to make it quite easy for artists to touring around Europe. Johnson wouldn’t have it. Brexit means Brexit. Glorious!
Nah, actually in this regard the UK had a point: the EU offer was not going to make practically any difference to the artists ' ability to work and tour in the EU. This is because the EU is legally not able to provide what would have been required as the EU Commission has no competency over EU member state immigration policy and is also limited by the Schengen agreement with non-EU countries.
I will never forgive the people who were too lazy to understand what Brexit would do to us.
A lot of them are dead now.
Nigel farage & Jacob Reese mogg !! Are Keyyyyy culprits
What did it do ? Our economic growth has been fastest in the g7 3 out of 4 years since leaving the single market. Inflation lower than eu and USA
Most Brits know more about Emmerdale and Corrie than politic's. And care even less.
@@springer3783 Our growth has been fastest because it grew from a deeper hole than other countries.
Inflation isn't lower than most EU countries or the US either.
Jesus Christ at 5:40 "are they punishing us?"
You asked for 3rd country status, you've got it
He will never understand even the basics of what that means.
Musicians told people this would happen before the vote.
and people decided that there was bigger issues to worry about
Apart from Roger Daltrey, but he is just a singer not a musician.
The only people complaining are people who wanted to remain . Still winging almost a decade later
@@springer3783 Well, you've got at least 30 years to go to match the Brexiteers who started complaining the minute the UK decided to join the EEC.
@@springer3783they are complaining about the stupidity of it. Q how is this beneficial to the UK?
Really!? Still weeping over the "cruel EU punishing UK for leaving"?
The EU is meant to have LESS regulations for THEIR members.
NOT for NON-members!
As a former fledgling local musician before and around the referendum, I can tell you categorically that many of us knew it would be a problem long before it came about. A lot of up-and-coming metal bands were taking advantage of the Schengen free movement and having once in a lifetime self funded tours driving to Europe to play in cities with more metal-centric audiences. I have even seen, and played on the same billing as, a couple of international bands from the continent. All of this is no longer possible for small and independent artists who cannot afford the extra paperwork and insurances involved. There was never an acknowledgement of unintended consequences, let alone a plan for the exit.
Fromage pulled the wool over the eyes of seventeen-million people. A consummate self serving conman who has wrecked so much of what this country once was. Just in terms of the music industry; we led the world. But now? People have lost their businesses, lost their jobs and lost a once bright future. My contempt for Fromage knows no bounds. As for King Crimson? I saw the last incarnation of the band three times. Robert Fripp is one of my favourite artists.
One of the best qualities of Mr Robert Fripp is that he does not bang on about politics
@@jeffsimon9594 Ahhh! So you think that musicians pointing out how utterly ridiculous a ridiculous policy is, is somehow "Banging on about politics"?
Or do you think that it might also have something to do with the fact that he's not been asked.
Because, having worked in the music industry, and having a son who is a musician, I am not aware of a single serious musician who does not share Jakko's Ian's and Elton's view of how disatrous Brexit has been. Ian and Elton have been outspoken about it, pretty much all the rest support them, but recognise that having them all complaining/commenting would only water down the message.
He is a bigger con-man than Jimmy Saville.
It wasn't one man who deceived the British people, it was years of media and politicians banging on about how bad the EU was, and many people didn't need much, if any persuasion. Farage was a relative late-comer, who saw a bandwagon, jumped on it and grabbed the reins.
But more than half of Britain worship Farage and there are even Farage churches in the North. Where people pray 🙏🏻 to Farage as a deity
I am a Brit living in Italy. Italian’s tend to hold British people, our culture and our politics in high esteem…..that was until Brexit…and when Italian’s are laughing at our political scene then we really must be a laughing stock!!!
"Italians" 😅 you speak for no one.
Indeed, same in Belgium. The UK lost lots of credit here. Still esteemed but not the political side of the story. Awful!
@@louis-philippearnhem6959 why every year you sign over more control to the EU is it so hard to understand that not everyone wants to do that?
@@graveperil2169 *"you sign over more control to the EU"* - If you are a member of the EU, you don't lose that control because you, yourself are part of the EU. It is YOU who gets to exercise that control except you exercise it as an EU member. So EU members do not lose control they just exercise it from a different place and on a different scale.
@@graveperil2169 Yeah you’re a rule taker now. Who’s losing control?
Most people I know who voted leave were utterly clueless, they believed the lies and disregarded the warnings with arrogance and willful ignorance!
Contempt for the conman….absolutely! Compassion for the conned…..absolutely not!!!
It's almost as if the EU is a great collaboration between countries to reduce the hassle of trade and movement 😅
NOT A SURPRISE.
EU negotiators warned about this.
EU negotiators offered a "you let our artists in, we let your in" deal.
UK negotiators refused.
Because music isn’t important to them. Not a proper job!! Grrrr.
@@tapdancer421 Yes. UK music exports generated £4 billion in 2022. Music industry's contribution to UK economy was £6.7 billion (GVA) in 2022. Total UK music industry employment was 210,000 in 2022. Hard to see how they could ignore a successfull industry like this.
@@trident6547 It's really simple: did the ones paying for the Brexit, the billionaires like Dyson, have stock or other interests in the music industry? If not, then you have your answer: they did not care one whit.
Calling the people the UK sent to negotiate a deal “negotiators” is perhaps a little generous.
What do you not understand, we were in a club, then we left that club and now we are not afforded the privileges of entry to that club. 🤔
I used to organize tours in Europe, pre Brexit, and have worked with some English metal bands with very big potential whose careers were sadly cut short because of Brexit. Because by far the biggest market for metal music is in Germany.
Just emigrate to Germany!
@@peterebel7899 So every UK metal band should move to Germany apply for right to work in Germany?
@@roccosilverstar No, right to live!
@@peterebel7899 well that too but point I’m making is the same. Brexit has caused more problems than benefits. No benefits in fact
@@roccosilverstar Well, the Beatles did that before they were famous. maybe there is a lesson in their path to fame.
This is what all those people voted for. They were told that everything would become difficult concerning trade and travel (project frear), but in the end English exceptionalism won through because, "They need us more than we need them, they'll give us any concessions we demand and count themselves lucky".
Well that really backfired right in their face didn't it oh well
People didn't know what they were voting for. This statement should be uttered every time Cameron enters a room, is interviewed on TV and engraved on his tombstone. Political malpractice.
If people had listened they would have known. But every warning has been discredited as "project fear". Now live with it !!
More Remainer memory problems..??
Cameron and Osborne campaigned to stay IN...!! Do some research...!!
@@2msvalkyrie529 I know they campaigned to remain. The point is they never should have put the issue up for a referendum.
@@sjt4225 Because we can't have the ordinary working class people having a say in how their country should be run, can we?
@@clairewright332 Correct. Go about your daily life and rely on the REPRESENTATIVES that you've elected to Parliament to run the country. They are there to handle the affairs of state. You are not. You don't have access to the legal and economic advisors, the military intelligence and so on. You and I were FAR better off being part of the EU than by being outside of it. Cameron knew it and so did every other serious MP. And because Cameron is/was an idiot, we've lost wealth/influence/opportunity for generations. Absolutely criminal.
Sadly, even Ringo voted for Brexit. You would think someone that famous would have had more common-sense. Unfortunately, the English have lost that capability.
That's another one on my list I no longer listen to. DIdn't like the Beatles anyway. The others that I boycott are the Who, Kate Bush and Mike Oldfield
@Esemptius That's okay. If you don't t like The Beatles you don't like music. I don't like leaving the EU but music is more important than that.
@@Esemptius Did those groups vote Brexit or campaign for it?
@@jamesprivet Yes they did
He has people to do these things for him. He doesn't have to understand anything about them.
I remember Roger Daltrey advocating Brexit, but as soon as it was implemented he moaned that it was hindering him touring, so he lobbied to get loopholes put in place, but just for him. They never happened.
Yeps, the poor fellow thought that Brexit would turn back time. He didn't come to think that maybe other countries had changed their immigration laws since the 1970s.
Brexit has NOT prevented any top UK
bands or Artists from touring...!!! Little mediocre
Indy bands probably..? Is that a great loss..??
@@2msvalkyrie529 Even the old bands doing tribute tours are losing money on touring. But hey, you ask them if the newer bands and individual artists think it's OK that they lost their careers.
Brexit had nothing to do with sovereignty and everything to do with preserving Tory political capital. Leavers should stop complaining because they have the outcome they deserve.
When you become a third country, you have to deal with each E.U. Country individually on things outside of the trade agreement, the E.U. actually offered a deal on touring performing artists but, Boris declined
Very true, @vermonallen3370. Onanistic BloJo spaffed up everyone's backs. I remember the Tory Brexiteer mob turning down the deal that musicians had asked for and which the EU was willing to give, but BoJo & The Brexiteers know best, eh?
(Insert expletives in the space provided, _____________________________________________________________________...
PS: Feel free to add Extra space or use more sheets of paper, if needed)
Roger Daltrey was a big supporter of Brexit, that's worked out well for him; some say karma, some say idiot.
He's already got his millions.
The sad thing is oddballs like Daltry won't feel a thing, he's amassed a fortune already
@@verystripeyzebra See below.
@@TC8787-yq7og and verystrpeyzebra: As you mention Daltrey has his money in the bank, unfortunately he's forgotten the struggles he had to get his own music heard and has become a music world dinosaur.
He's turned out to be a real creep!
While there's plenty wrong with the EU, Brexit solves none of them, & means Britain has no voice in shaping EU policy now.
There far more wrong with your "U"K. Glad you left. All you ever did was undermine us and stab us in the back. You never contributed anything positive. Brexit is a huge blessing.
It's incapable of change
Let’s be clear: The referendum ballot asked whether the UK should remain in or leave the EU-nothing more. It didn’t specify what kind of deal, if any, should be pursued if the UK chose to leave. So when some leavers claim that this isn’t the deal they voted for, it’s frankly absurd.
..and the vote was only consultative not a mandate.
Do they not understand the meaning of the word leave
Classical musicians, particularly orchestras, have found it even more difficult.
Iirc it was Boris who said no to free cultural exchange and especially concerts. The EU wanted it to go on as it was before Brexit.
and under the head lines what was the details?
@@graveperil2169 Boris has NEVER done details...
@@wessexdruid7598 I am amazed he could read but we do have a civil service to read the details in treaties
@@graveperil2169 And, as we are discovering with the Grenfell enquiry, Civil Servants have been forced into the position where they do as they're told, or else. No one is permitted to speak truth to power, any more.
@@graveperil2169 civil servants are experts and we were told we have had enough of experts.
Thanks Nigel and Boris 🎉
The voters are to blame as well. Maybe even more so!
This wasn't unforeseen. It was all set out in "Project Fear".
It isn't just musicians and other performing artists. It affects any Brit working cross-border: accountants, solicitors, translators.....
Except it wasn't unforseen to anyone who bothered to check.
Yawn 🥱 bore off Comrade
@@KierStalin What a well considered reply.
@@KierStalinbored of facts
@@KierStalin yeah thanks genius 😅
@@willrobertsmith Not a problem. Compared to a communist anyone is a genius
It's the other way around too, European musicians aren't bothering to come to the UK because it requires extra paperwork and insurance etc.
In addition it even impacts American musicians, presumably those in other countries too, they are more and more touring EU countries but not the UK because it costs more and again needs more paperwork.
Is there any evidence of this you can bring up? As far as it seems wrt to festivals, there's just as many American and other European artists as ever. Glastonbury was as full of American artists as ever. Taylor swift touring all over the UK (She's put on more concerts in the UK than anywhere else).
I'm sure it's impacting less established artists who don't have quite as much money. The reason artists came to the UK wasn't all about just being a connection between the EU and America though. Lots of managers, producers, talent coaches, scouts, legendary artists from this country, as well as a place for developing artists to grow.
@@ecaeas4439 I have myself spoken to American and EU based artists who have said it's not worth coming to the UK. There are huge names that can swallow the costs but most can't.
A friend of mine is a UK musician and has had this conversation a lot.
@@Human_Herbivore I mean there's literally hundreds of tour dates in the Uk for mega famous American artists, but even for artists that are part of niche categories like heavy metal - Slipknot, Pantera, Papa roach. These are still very big and popular but not on the level of Taylor Swift of Billie Eilish for example.
I don't see the evidence that it's significantly degrading choice for seeing touring musicians for UK concert-goers. Of course it makes sense that smaller artists can't do it anymore but they've always had a tough time and operated right on the edge of profitability.
@@ecaeas4439 those big bands were clearly small bands to compare. It's also a main reason why countless venues have closed down.
@@ecaeas4439using Taylor swift as an example is completely ridiculous and actually sounds therefore suspiciously like brexiteer chat
Welcome to the brexshit.
I completely agree. The Leftists have ruined our country
Musician not rockstar.
Britain acting like the pre brexi rules should still apply to them...has a whiff of Empire and the natives should be thankful for the British presence.
Out means out!
Have fun outside the club.
🇪🇺🇳🇱
Well done brexiteers... another gift.
Can't British artists tour in Brunei, the new CPTPP partner, that has been under martial law since 1962, which is also the last year elections were held there?
FAFO
Those clowns are finally getting to the FO era.
Correct!
I love this comparison at 5'35" and how it explains the situation: "You decided to leave the golf club, but still want to park your car in the club and enjoy the club's benefits, while not being a member".
"I didn't know what I was voting for" -self described "informed" voter
Who's that then? I know lots of people who voted to leave and they ALL knew EXACTLY what they were voting for.
@@KierStalin ... and they called us 'Project Fear'
@@KierStalin
And what were they voting for, exactly?
@@andyknowles772 To leave the EU, obviously.
@@KierStalin The full implications of Brexit are still unknown to anyone. One thing that's not up for debate is that the UK is poorer as a result. There may be benefits to leaving that come to fruition years into the future, but nobody knows what they are yet. So far, absolutely nothing positive has come from Brexit.
Why would Uk be treated differently than other countries outside EU? If Eu makes exceptions, they will face requests from all other countries in the world.
Unforeseen? Unforeseen by whom, how many times did we tell them. 😵💫
I used to work in setting up international inter-governmental conferences all over the world. We took up to 10 tonnes of IT and audio interpretation equipment. We always worked with the host governments but we still had many import problems with equipment held up for days at airport customs halls. Our meetings lasted from 5 to 7 days so we planned for delays. If you're a band trying to perform every 2 or 3 days in a different country it must be an expensive nightmare.
The EU is not "punishing" anyone, but it cannot give dispensation to UK bands without reciprocity from the UK otherwise there would be all the other countries demanding the same thing. The UK is not that special.
Naive. The EU is not a benevolent entity. Wake up
@@KierStalinyou forgot to call us "sheeple"
@@andybeans5790 Thanks for reminding me.
most people in the UK understand that its just the EU backers feel like mummy has turned on them
It was sadly very predictable.
I escaped London to Poland and haven't looked back, I urge all musicians to push the button, move, and get your EU freedom to work/travel back again
Unforseen!? What did this people expect ?miracles? Or "they need us more than we need them"?
Who can Believe poeple didn't know about leaving EU What kind of fouls are these people and réject de fault on EU rules and régulations made by British while in the EU
Blame yourself leaving and not the EU beeing loyal to the rule for every outside countries alike
“Unforeseen” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, I think.
If King Crimson want to tour Germany, sovereign German customs rules, VAT rules and work permits apply to them.
If they want to tour Italy, sovereign Italian rules apply to them. And if they want to tour Belgium, Belgian rules apply to them. Why? Because the UK left the SINGLE MARKET and has now to apply to the national rules and regulations of the member states like ALL THIRD COUNTRIES worldwide.
What I don't understand at all is that EVEN AFTER SO MANY YEARS OF BREXIT DISCUSSIONS, most English (that foolish moderator is the best example) still don't understand what the SINGLE MARKET is. They are incapable of getting that concept into their dumb heads!
We were part of a club, a club we have betrayed,, we should not complain.
People can’t afford to eat or keep warm, no one cares about the issues rockstars face with touring
Tell that to your English fishermen who can't export to the EU. Tell that to your English farmers who can't find workers to reap the harvest because the Brexitards are too lazy for hard work.
@@EsemptiusNot true as we found out during COVID that plenty of people were willing to work on the farm, but as they already had accommodation and were not taken on as the farmers wanted to get money back from charging rent to workers.
@nicholaschristodoulou5766. Not every artist/band trying to make a living with their music is a „Rockstar“. I bet that 80% of them are no fulltime musicians. They have a everyday job and take a few weeks off to live their dream or to make somehow the breakthrough.
@@ferzbeitel6026 when your freezing to death or going hungry , the issues that bands have touring is a luxury that’s irrelevant
What a narrow side. When touring the take money from non-UK citizens, bringing it back to UK, creating wealth in UK. - Now they don't.
Now your argument may be "ah, those little bands will not bring much wealth". But it sums up, over the whole UK economy.
You wanted out; you’re out. Nobody booted you out. You chose your destiny. Live with it.
OMG how arrogant is this interviewer thinking the EU did this to punish you. deal with it. you are not that important anymore, these rules apply to any 3rd country and its citizens, and the UK while in the EU, agreed to these laws
If these are the same rules as apply to US, Canadian, Brazilian etc bands then that's exactly what people voted for!
Unforseen??? You knew exactly what you were in for and you chose this!!!!
Why would the EU treat the UK any different from another 3rd country? The EU is applying the rules ( which ironically the UK helped to forge ) evenly to all 3rd countries
It wasn't unforeseen at all, it was PROJECT FEAR for a long while though
The realisation, "that you can not have your cake and eat it".
I see the same thing happening with all the calls to scrap the Human Rights bill, without thinking how exactly will it affect them also.
It wasn't unforseen though!
Brexit was the biggest mistake an intire nation ever made.
Voting for Brexit to get back control. Well, the only thing brexiteers got back control was of their own stupidity.
Far right thuggery statement
Yeah, because musicians being able to tour was top of people's lists for reasons to vote.
Another benefit of brexit.
The financialization of the UK economy has produced some dreadful distortions and harm to the non financial parts of the UK economy. Farming, music, manufacturing, academia etc etc.
There was nothing unforeseen about it. Some people, like myself, were pointing out on social media exactly what the impact would be on a daily basis.
I remember this specific situation being pointed out by musicians at the time! The people who voted Brexit didn’t care, no matter how much it was further pointed out how much Britain’s music industry brings into the country!
No one cares
@@KierStalinYou evidently do, judging by the number of comments you're leaving.
@@chebghobbi No one cares about the opinions of condescending, patronising, anti democratic, middle-class champagne socialist bots and their implanted "opinions"
@@jujutrini8412 and we dont care now musicians are that important if you want to go tour the EU do the admin
Surely this is a small price to pay in return for being able to put little tiny crowns on some pint glasses?
To be fqir the Norway situation has probably not changed becausw of Brexit.
@@MartieD Indeed, not an EU member. Only in the Single Market.
Not unforeseen at all.
Except maybe for Bruce Dickinson...
If only there was a device where you can connect from home to all kinds of information, like a 24/7 public library, it would make things so much easier when you have questions, questions that need answering. 🤔So many things could have been avoided regarding BREXITs "unforeseen" consequences!
For a privileged few with nothing to lose and everything to gain, and the resources to shape public opinion, Brexit was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
Repeatedly told what would happen. How much it would cost them. That they were gonna be paying more and more. Travel would get harder and harder. But hey .. blue passports
Omg, just imagine how hard it is for 95% of the world that's not in the EU to travel 😮 oh wait.... it's not.
@@KierStalin the bigger problem is food and engineering apart coming EU is now lot slower, it why we are now a lot poorer in this country now.
"Got sovereignty back en it" 😂
VAT? how about not controlling our borders?
Oh! You think you control your boders, do you? How so?
It seems to me that the UK has utterly lost control of its borders with daily crossings by small boats, smuggling happening on such a large scale that entire truck loads are being seized, while not a single cargo can be expected to comply with UK requirements, inspections happening so infrequently that it makes sense to smuggle in ever larger quantities. Not to mention that, instead of having European migrant workers, you have Indian, Philippino etc. workers instead.
So how is the UK "controllinbg its borders"?
Oh, and Uk authorities can no longer pursue fines levied on EU residents, while EU countries can on Uk residents.
You do understand how much VAT is worth to the government, don't you? And you do realise that import declarations at UK borders are, almost without exception, incorrect, so VAT not paid correctly on imports is literally costing the UK billions per year?
@@davidcolin6519 The control of our borders thing was a myth. The UK always maintained control of it's borders in respect of non-EU/EEA citizens. We never participated in the Schengen agreement. When the far right whinge about immigration, I don't believe they are whinging about persons from the EU and they type of immigration that they are whinging about was always controlled by us. If it was excessive then that is due to UK policy (BLAIR in particular) and not the EU. It was BLAIR who changed the work permit rules for non-EU/EEA persons, removing the requirement for such permits to be applied for by the employer who had to justify every such application on an individual basis to the Home Office.
@@Ben-xe8ps I agree with you, but it certainly wasn't just Blair. And the Tories allowed immigration to skyrockewt as soon as they got into power, so I'm afraid you're worng on that. And without that immigration, the NHS would simply have ceased to exist.
That is because almost no British born Doctor actually WANTS to be a GP. They all want to specialise, that means that someone has to be found to do the job, and EU-trained Doctors were/are better paid in other EU countries. And because the UK couldn't afford to train enough Doctors because of the voting population refusing to pay enough taxation to fund that training.
And the skyrocketting of immigration under the Tories can certainly be parttially accounted for by the removal of financiakl support for nurses in training. Seriously, htf do you expect to train enough nurses without it?
The fact is that the Tories didn't expect to train enough, the knew what they were doing and the vast increase in imported nursing staff is entirely down to that as well as the effective reduction in health workers' pay by about 20% during the time they were in office. Not only that, but the spectacular reduction in morale in the NHS under *unt (especially), but under every Tory government since Mrs T. made it abundantly clear that the NHS was under attack. I'm sure you won't agree, because you are clearly a Tory supporter, but to those of us who actually care about the NHS, you could see that every single Tory PM tried to undermine the NHS.
You can blame BLAIR all you like, I'm sure you will continue to do so. But all that does is show how hateful, and not thoughtful, you are.
BTW, I am not a Labour supporter. But your ridiculous hatred of "BLAIR" is just that, ridiculous.
@@Ben-xe8psFar right is just a code word for someone who you disagree with. Stop with the lazy labelling, Brexit was a right and left wing coalition.
I didn't know the EU had made it so easy for me travelling around
What's really sad is I read articles about these repercussions *in 2016* and either not enough people knew about this kind of stuff... or they did know, didn't care and still voted for it anyway 😞
@beauvogames
I just had different priorities than the musicians freedom of movement
@@eddiecalderone and now we are all poorer so well done, next time stay at home stop you doing any more damage to the uk. The uk engineering sector has been massive damage because of this, and not one apogee from anyone.
@@bendreczko9054
How are we poorer? I disagree.
Next time I sleep outside the polling station, so I be one of the first to vote and do my duty. Now, one might have a different opinion & view about many topics, however let me humbly point out, telling others to stay at home and not to vote because their stance is not the same as yours might be what still goes on in certain countries, and what happened back in the day in nations where dictatorship was in place.
Engineering working visas are being granted without any hindrance.
@@eddiecalderone How are we poorer? we government it self has said because of Brexit with it being so disrupted to supply chains, Businesses, people leaving the UK, problems getting food in the UK, problems with Just In Time chains (which has done damage to car manufacturing) and all of the other problems with more red tape we are have lost in 2023 £40 Billion in tax. So yes we are poorer thank you very much for that. So much for your "duty" when your opinion & view does so much damage.
@@bendreczko9054
We government?
Love King Crimson. This issue affecting all touring musicians is ridiculous. Just another amazing benefit from Brexit, eh?
we are a country outside the EU just like the rest of the world get used to it, do you moan about getting visa's and passports to tour the US?
Yes we do moan, the disproportionate cost of US visas, the laws relating to overseas electronic money transfers and the inability of US customs to correctly process equipment carnets is just the start of it.
Since the collapse of physical sales due to the emerging streaming paradigm there is no longer any record company financial support to cover any pre-tour expenses like insurance premiums or carnet bonds and local promoters haven't yet stepped up to fill that gap with deposit payments. So tours that could be grossing upward of $1/2 million don't even get across the line to the first show.
@@geezertechhead so now you get to moan about the EU and the US
Hmm. You used an apostrophe on visa's but not passports. Why?
@@Nickbaldeagle02 poor UK education standards
@@graveperil2169 no. Poor student attention standards.
Come on, it just takes some more days for the EU to dissolve as foreseen by wise Brits and you will be happy again!
Everyone knew exactly what they were voting for - anti immigration. Everything else was /is superfluous.
Unforseen?
no clearly stated and deemed not important
But we now have the bendy bananas back. I fail to see the problem.
Well, I'm glad that Jakko at least understood that this was all too obvious a result of Brexit.
It's not just a "European" thing. I know that Brits regard the USA as the holy of holies and utterly wonderful, but the same bureaucracy applies there. Every single musical instrument has to have its serial number registered upon leaving the US on a tour. US Customs then checks the serial numbers, of EACH instrument on return to the country, to verify it's the same one that left. This is to prevent possible import duty evasion.
its a country thing, that it does not apply to EU countries just shows that they are less countries and more states inside the EU
For metal bands Germany is the holiest of holies. I've seen promising English bands go nowhere because of all the hassle.
@@PropagandasaurusRex so UK bands are lazy I can believe that
The difference is we do not have a choice about making touring the US difficult and expensive. We are choosing to make touring difficult and expensive in Europe.
@@lellyparker the cost was just to high
Greetz from Berlin 😊! Hope to see you back in the EU soon!
More "greetz"(?) from Berlin🖕 ! I hope not, I am glad to see the back of you for a looooong time.
I’m sure “Our Nigel” has a plan do this, let’s go and find him in Clacton and ask…
He'll be in America, almost never Clacton.
Didn't realise that Clacton was in the USA 🙂
@@gavinsmith9564 even the Americans haven’t nicked the name! I was sure there would be a Clacton OH or something like that!
@@Human_Herbivore You haven't got a clue how often he's in Clacton, so stop spreading misinformation leftist
@@gavinsmith9564 You haven't got a clue how often he's in Clacton, so stop spreading misinformation leftist
In 10 years time, the entire Anglophonic European Music Industry will be entirely dominated by Irish Rock Bands.
Why are you complaining about needing a work visa for Europe. No british musicians ever complain that they need a visa for US,Canada,Asian,South Africa,Asia,Australia,New Zealand and South America.
No U.K. musicians complain about all the different visas they need when they do a world tour they only complain about the visas for Europe. Why is it ok to have visas for the rest of the world and not Europe?
Stop moaning and telling me I did not know what I voted for I knew exactly what I voted for.
The EU zone collectively will never want to let Britain back in.. Remember there are 27 countries who need to endorse a return for Britain..They realise now that they don't need the UK and will never forget the pain it caused when it happened.. Certain Brexiteers suggesting that the EU needed them more than the UK needed Europe didn't help.. You are out and that's that I'm afraid.. You left the club.. Get used to the long queues and have you visa to hand..
Well done Jakko, the parallel with leaving the golf club and expecting to still be able to use the car park - that's just the attitude of entitlement that has shocked a lot of us Brits who live and work in Europe. We are battling a whole series of problems that were laid down as Europe's conditions for leaving Europe for Great Britain, but, nobody apparently knew about them until it was "too late". TBH, I think they just didn't care.
Unforseen? How was it unforseen? If you decide to lose your right to travel freely around Europe and work in every EU country legally, how is it surprising that once you've lost that right, you don't have it anymore? This is a nursery level of understanding the world around you, FFS.