Real talk from Jay here. It's so easy to fall into the "buy gear" trap in the hope that it will somehow make you a better musician when, in reality, practice would be the most effective way to improve your skill (also cost-wise). Even after a couple of decades of playing music (mostly as a hobby) I _still_ sometimes need a reminder that it's the archer, not the arrows.
Ive got to say, i appreciate the woven ones more than i thought i would. I saw them and thought “those look childish”, but no, when on the mouthpiece they actually look quite nice. Plus a wee bit to distinguish yours from other instruments always makes me feel a bit more excited to play my instrument. Feels more unique.
You know Jay, throwing a frequency analyzer on these trials might be kinda fun. I would think, to really notice the differences, you would need to be the one behind the mouthpiece/ligature, but seeing the frequencies might help articulate the subtleties of what you're feeling.
Keep in mind even the same person won't play identically moment to moment. It's all still incredibly subjective and contextual. If you're needing to pull out a frequency analyzer, then I have some news...
There's phone apps for that now. Might be useful for guitar string assessment and electric guitar capacitor selection and their filter setting use. Darker with them means reducing higher tones, I probably don't want darker much , but on those it's a knob twist back to bright
WOW .. I have only 1 alto 1 mouthpiece 1 ligature As a recent widow raising a special needs child I'm so happy at just having these... but like a kid at Xmas - my eyes boggle at your multi- everything!! you are really blessed 🙌🙏💯
I feel like what makes a ligature good or bad is how well it keeps the reed sealed against the mouthpiece. Personally, I can't hear a difference in tone between anyone of them so if it seals well then it's good in my book
You should also keep in consideration how it makes the reed feels. A good ligature can create more vibration against the mouthpiece and redd just enough to make it feel easier to blow theough. Though you may not necessarily hear the difference you can feel it.
It's very important to properly lubricate the single screw (or 2 screws) with cork grease, or synthetic key oil. Even 3 -in-one common household hardware store type oil can be used. It's important to prevent gunk buildup, calcium, grit or dirt from contaminating your screws. Apply oil, work in the oil into the threads by tightening and loosening, then wipe off black contaminated oil with tissue or rag.then reapply fresh oil. Remember, the smoother the threads, the more you can feel the overall tightness when final adjusting the overall screw tension.
Oh my goodness! Thank you for this honest review! I've actually been watching videos to learn about what to look for in a new ligature for my clarinet. They will play and say, oh this clearly sounds different from the others, and I think they all sound the same. Feel is a different story. I decided to look for a new one for my son who plays alto sax and found this video. It seems like the first honest one I've seen. So refreshing! I think I'll get him the BG Flex in red since it's his favorite color, will look great on his frosted black nickel sax and black and red are his school colors. It's a win all around.
Great channel. I don't play sax (bass primarily and guitar more lately) but use this channel to educate myself because my son started this year. But I still find myself watching a lot of these videos, really interesting and well done.
Not what I expected. It's refreshing to see an influencer not selling the latest "must haves". I'll show my thanks for your unfiltered opinion by subscribing to this channel now.
Been playing for 65 years, bari, tenor, alto, and have learned that the best ligature is the one that works best in conjunction with the mouthpiece and reed I am using. Period. The idea of a "best" ligature is no more valid than trying to argue who the best player is. In an emergency (broken ligature) I have used string and no one knew the difference.
It seems that if the ligature clamps more evenly and over a larger surface, dampens and couples the reed better to the mouthpiece, the sound can be weightier and probably clearer. Could help on the extremes of dynamics too. Tons of great insight and advice in this video, thanks so much!
I have an old Selmer Paris ligature. I think is like almost 65 years old and it works great for me on my Meyer 6 Small Chamber alto mouthpiece. Very nice and informative video....thanks for your time.
I think there is something to the idea that adding or subtracting mass at the ligature will affect the sound. I’m not an engineer, but I know that mechanical impedance comes into play whenever vibrations are being transferred from one material or medium to another. And mass directly affects impedance. So if the ligature is adding mass at the base of the reed, it stands to reason that would effect how the reed’s vibrations are transferred to the air column and the rest of the instrument.
Ease of use and adjustment on mouthpiece are underrated qualities for a lig. Sure you don’t want it messing with your sound concept too much, but you also don’t want it to shift your reed position when you go to make a small adjustment in a performance.
I’ve been playing on a Vandoren Optimum Ligature for my tenor forever, and it has served me well. I’ve also used it on my secondary baritone and it works completely fine for that as well.
If and when you stumble upon the ligature that will make a difference - that difference is your sense of connectedness with your horn. Your tone will be pretty much the same but the feedback you receive through your teeth / jaw / skull will be that augmented sense of connectedness. Most players never experience this.
As an ancient miser 100% new to saxophone with old poor condition alto and tenor saxophone on their way and almost a week of googling on saxophone, I will probably get Yamaha 4C and popular quality number 2 cane reeds to start my ligature choices come down to: cheapo 2:screw, Yamaha brand for ligature fit to mouthpiece, one of the Grovner. I have a unfounded preference for the screws going on top. A downside would be a ligature that gets larger with use, or is troublesome to install or remove. Much thanks for your videos, they have been of help.
Agree, I saw once a fantastic sax player in town and I had the chance to see his sax closer and he was using a metallic hose clamp bought it at autozone, was crazy! But the sound of him on his sax was really great
I have been playing a Berg Larsen ligature on my baritone Berg Larsen HR for 32 years. I tried the BG Duo Gold Lacquered and Sliver Plated. Both are excellent tone and vibration. The tone of the gold is it for me. The intonation improved and the vibration is amazing with cane OR the Legere Signature and American cuts. I am done with bad cane at $8 per reed for baritone reeds. Legere all the way! The rubber feet on the BG take a little getting used to when putting it on the mouthpiece but I love the 1 screw. I look forward to trying the Versa when it is back in stock at my favorite retailer.
I was once in a masterclass & recital with Claude Delangle. He just wrapped a piece of twine around his soprano mouthpiece and reed. I figure if that is good enough for him, than ligatures can't possibly be terribly important. If it works and it doesn't become loose when I move my mouthpiece, then its good to me. Been using a vandoren optimum for 16 years and just some rovners or cheapo 2 screws when the optimum doesn't quite fit my mouthpiece.
The "Set-up.": The sum total of appearance (horn) (Player) player's grooming standards and posture, pairing of the neck, legature, and reed, for overall sound quality, and specific appearance. What I play and my overall appearance as I play seem to drive my passion to play. Of course, This intern is reflected into each note. Richard
As a player & dealer have tried most ligs, the Marc Jean is my fav now..more centered tone for me. HAve sold many of them & players can hear a difference.Silverstein if you reverse the metal plates, so they contact the reed works better I feel, but they stretch all to much .
I feel most comfortable with a Rovner on every mouthpiece. Every reed is different and the Rovner bends to fit them all and puts equal pressure on the table of every reed. It eliminates a variable.
I use Rovner mouthpieces exclusively too. I think they darken the sound a little bit, they hold the reed well too. Only nitpick is that taking off the ligature can be a bit difficult in that the ligature tends to stick to the mouthpiece sometimes.
Have you tried Ishimori? I’ve never been much of an equipment guy. I’ve been using my main alto mouthpiece for 38 years, and I have been using the same basic gear on all my saxes for about 15 years now. I’m not into gadgets, and I didn’t think much about ligatures for the first half of my career. I used a Charles Bay for many years and was happy. A friend and former teacher introduced me to the original Ishimori ligatures, and I tried not to like it because I just didn’t want to spend the money. It was different though, and I loved it. I’ve been using it for fifteen years now. For me the ligature decision was a response thing. It just made it easier!
I have the Vandoren Optimum and i love it. I find the plate with the 4 'dots' brightest, and best for me. So far. Who knows, i will mostly likely change my mind, lol, I also have the Rovner, and i agree, the plate not covered is best. I immediately heard a difference when you started playing the BG. Nice! Hey Jay, another outstanding video. Thank you!
How do you feel about the Optimum vs the Rovner? I play an optimum on my alto but recently got a tenor and was thinking of either getting another optimum or the rovner since its a little cheaper
What a fun, entertaining video, with important closing statements starting at about 18 min! An honest look at the importance of what ligatures, if any, make a difference! ...as a beginner, my inner geek will still buy the fancy ligatures for fun and aesthetics! Thanks, Jay!
I did it. Having had nothing else than a fake Rovner and standard Otto Link binders I bought the Jody ring and the rovner verso X. Honestly, sound doesn’t change a bit but the notes seem to feel much more solid, bends go more controlled and even overtones much, much more solid. Never was able to blow overtones past the G (alto) but now easily. So, my take is if you’re a great sax player you wouldn’t need the heavy weight (literally) ligs but if you’re an almost great player both the Jody ring and the Rovner Verso X is at least worth the try!
I’ve still got my Harrison ligature I bought around 1990. In fact, I played some dance jobs with Shirley Harrison (Mr. Harrison’s widow) in the late 90’s. She was a fantastic piano player. The Harrison ligature was invented/manufactured in Nebraska (Fairbury or Beatrice if I recall).
A simple piece of string is the benchmark of all ligatures. Hand tied string (waxed silk cord) is still used in Germany, going back to the 19th century.
Thanks, Jay, for a good comparison of a lot of options. In a ‘scientific’ experiment or study like this, a ‘control’ or ‘controls’ held constant are essential to ensure fair comparison. In this case the key constant is the reed, but I don’t think you stated what reed you are playing. Can you tell us?
This video made me switch back to the Versa on my main horn--and flip the flaps around lol. I thought it was almost too much, but the fact it gave the most distinctive sound (and in a good way) was pretty obvious. I got the original Versa on clearance and it's great but without cramming a tiny piece of paper/cardboard under the plate it will fall out. Probably why it was initially redesigned.
The Jody Jazz power ring had the best articulation clarity over the whole range you played, and the bottom end sounded very nice as well. 👍 The BG Duo, and the Rovner Versa-X also in the same class. Yep, the Yani Sixs was good without as gutsy a bottom as the others, and you’re right, very subtle differences. I can make the direct sound brighter or darker depending on how much mouthpiece I take in. All said and done, Good advice Jay. 😉
Based on this video, I purchased a Vandorem optimum. I am extremely happy as I finally got that bright alternative rock I’ve been looking for using the “crinkle cut” plate. The other two plates will definitely give you a warmer sound… Good for jazz.
I've found through the years that almost any ligature works a little better than the one that comes with the horn. First get the right mouthpiece/reed combo to suit the sound you prefer. Heat & humidity variances seem tough on reeds, but some ligatures seem to help more in such situations, allowing the reed to play more freely. Great video.
This is a good demo. I've been playing the Vandoren optimum ligature forever and it works with my set up. I've been tempted to try something else for fun, but I think I'd be asking for trouble 😊
The ideal ligatures are the ones which fit under my favorite mouthpiece caps. I used to use keyring rings but they cause MP cap fit problems. Single-screw cheapo ligs from the Great Auction Site are my current faves. Though for the less-common instruments like my C-Mels or baritone, I have to settle for what I can get.
definitely important to have a well fitted mouthpiece cap match. This is one of the important factors for me when choosing a ligature to use on gigs. Also that cap needs to fit in my pocket when playing. Some caps are way too big.
It’s a feeling thing , the sound will not or have a very subtle change. Maybe one day you will find one that you love and think that you play better wich is psychological. I feel that i play better with the jody jazz power ring because of the weight so i stick with it.
Ligatures are definitely a subjective component in the ammo box. Really like how you sound using the power ring. I use gold optimum’s on bot soprano and bari. I use power rings and Olegature’s on alto and tenor depending on which mouthpiece I’m using on either.
The nice thing with the woven ligature is you can stuff one in your case somewhere and if you break one or step on it and then lost your backup or nobody’s got a spare ligature it will be there tucked away in the crack of your case. I keep a rovner just for that emergency. Rovners tend to shift the reed around in my opinion
Pretty much confirmed what I already strongly believe ... should have spent the time watching this PRACTICING. Would have been fun to see you play one of those ligatures that look like a halo worn by neck-injury patients - with screws to the head from several directions. AND, maybe rubber bands, or cellophane tape used as ligatures. Just for fun. A ligature that doesn't get easily squashed or otherwise distorted from careless handling is one of MY priorities.
I think one of the key points which could be highlighted more is mainly how the ligature feels to play. Also, the transition between notes, legato, articulation. I know from the ligs I have tried all of them might produce a similar sound to the ear, possibly, but the playing experience and feel are totally different. For example, I use a metal Selmer lig on a original Guardala, and wow does that open up the register, fluidity and sound. Any other lig including the one Guardala shipped with his pieces, doesn't seem to have that rich vibrant tone, Guardala lig is slightly sweet, squished tone, articulations is different too.
Having various ligatures to choose from can be a help in maintaining a consistent reponse of the set up , baring in mind that reeds, and chops, room accoustics, humidity, air pressure, altitude, planetary alignments, solar winds, etc can change the feel of the set- up.So for me having various ligature options helps me sound the SAME for each performance, and assists me staying close to my "ideal" set- up sound and response. Before each gig I "audition"3 or 4 ligs and go with my favourite for that particular setting.
I use Vandoren Optimum ligatures on my tenor and soprano. Had them for well over 10 years. Love 'em. I don't think listeners will know the difference. But YOU will. And that will affect the way you play. So, it kinda "does" affect your sound??? Just not directly, as Jay points out.
You are absolutely right. On a well balanced reed the ligature is making no difference. On a reed that develops warps, the points a ligature holds the reed can make a huge difference. Ray Reed wrote a book about balanced reeds.
Ligatures, to me, are just like the other tone booster gadgets, the player will feel the difference and will make the player more confident rather there actually be a tone difference. I once used shoelaces on a gig on a dare and I got more compliments on that gig than any other haha.
What I would want to know is the reason why one design sounds different than another? Is it just a matter of the force used to hold the reed? Is there something about the contact points for the reed?
The BG duo seemed to cut through more and was the first ligature I noticed a difference in. I agree with the first Rovner having some meat to it, and the second was darker for sure.
A criterion you might not have mentioned in the video that I look for is that the ligature does not dampen the reed too much that I lose a bit of response, which I do run into that problem with some ligatures. I do want it to hold the reed well, but not to the point of stifling it!
No Abelet ligature in the line-up ? 😉 As a ligature maker, I do agree that the ligature does not come first in the building of the sound. But it can make a noticeable difference. I remember a trial session with Jean-Pierre Baraglioli. I had 2 pieces of the same model, one made out of brass, the other made of bronze. The brass was a clear NO, the bronze a maybe and I could only agree with that.
I feel there was an improvement from the initial “standard” lig to the Harrison. From there on differences were really subtle. To my ear the Rovner with the plates was a bit of a standout.
kinda depends on the reed. Depending on any given day, if I'm getting an unsatisfactory results with 1 set- up I'll try a different lig and sometimes it helps. I generally have 2 or 3 different ligs handy for alto, tenor & clarinet. I like the H, but I also like Luyben (for clar.), Vandoren M/O, certain Rovs (the new one with the slits). As long as long as the reed doesn't move around I'm happy- 1 screw, 2 screw, no screw, I don't care so much
Great video, thanks for making the effort. Here's what my ear hears: Vandoeren Optimum - a little darker than the previous ligs Theo Wanne - similar to Vandoren a little darker Marc Jean - slightly better tone Peter Jensen - takes a tiny bit of the edge off BG Duo - brighter, perhaps even buzzier. Not necessary a better tone. Rovner Van Gogh - darker, softens the brightness To me, the ligature can impact tone, but the more important thing for me is reed response, does it impact how the reed plays? Would be cool to know the price differences across these. IMHO, you can get a usable sound even with a rubber band... the main goal is that the ligature keeps the reed firmly attached to the mouthpiece. Thanks for the great video!
@Alan Morgan What is your point actually? I listened to this video using AKG K240 studio headphones. Are you saying I can't tell the difference, or are you saying you hear far greater differences than what I noted above? Feel free to provide your mouthpiece by mouthpiece comparison notes like I did to let me know what you are hearing.
I’m not sold on “magic” ligatures and prefer to think about them as stated in your earlier video, “Are they doing their job?". I prefer Theo’s ligature because on the variety of mouthpieces that I play, it seems the easiest to exactly locate the plate position while maintaining a good grip--gripping without denting my reed (I hate that). Some mpcs play well with the plate forward, others like it further back. Slip-on or ring type pieces leave me guessing where that pressure point on the reed starts. For me, positioning the plate seems much more important for noticeable tonal characteristics than plate material or plate geometry differences.
I am not saying there isnt a feel difference to any of those but...... the sound difference was so subtle to my ears that the cost of most would sway me away from them. M/O or cheap one at the beggining and done for me. To each their own. Ultimately if it gets you to practice then it is worth it.
Playing a SYOS Smoky 7 tip on my Selmer Series 2 alto. I like the mouthpiece, but wanted a darker sound. Tried a Rovner 1-RL; it definitely gave me a darker sound than the SYOS lig. YMMV.
I have found, occasionally, that certain mpc/lig combos do not hold the reed down where it needs to be for a good seal. Where it holds on the reed matters. This is not the case for most mpcs, but for some 'oddballs'. I found this to be the case in a Lamberson DD Bari mpc. It really mattered where the lig pushed the reed on the mpc. Couldn't use BG Duo version of tenor that fit and I use a lot (just sounded horrible), but found another that was day/night. But not a normal occurance.
I guess most good players will gravitate towards the sound in their "inner" ear, no matter the gear. You might not hear it in the audience, but the player might feel that a piece of gear makes it easier or harder to produce "his" sound, high notes, splittones etc. To me, the ligatures impact is most noticable during very quiet phrases or on the extreme high or low end of the horn. Also mostly in classical music when the sound has to be almost sterilely clean. So I think it'd be interesting to hear all those again on a ballad or a classical piece :)
Starting over 70 years ago, I always used my logs with the screws on the bottom (reed side). There seemed to be perfect contact and holding power - plus I got used to what appeared to me a cleaner look under my nose. And so I’ve kept it that way. Most players seem to be placing the screws on top of- like you demonstrated. How about the other way (on the bottom)? I admit that there’s more reed contact, but does that make a difference? Some mps cut out most of the reed table just to “let it vibrate more”. So why not the ligature? How about adjusting the mp position without the reed moving difference between ligatures? ALSO … I used a few “power”/whatever rings and the hardest part was taking them off.
hi ! regarding the Vandoren Optimum ligature as per the notice the vertical pressure plate is for a rich colorful sonority great resonance blowing and articulation ease / the horizontal one compact and centered sonority smooth and even sound extraordinary blowing ease / the one with the four points or dots the reed vibrates in total freedom producing a very flexible sound greater ease of expression
I love my Jody jazz mouth piece and matching ligature on my alto sax 🎷 and use vandoren optimum on the tenor sax 🎷 I’ve had it ages and still looks as good as the day I purchased it thumbs on both ligatures , I also think it depends what sax model you use and mouthpiece plus reed , but I do agree purchase one that fits good on your mouthpiece that all what counts not the price 👍
I like a cool looking ligature like the next sax gear junky. But my pet peeve are the ligatures you can’t easily move the mouthpiece on cork. I think ligatures help dial in resistance or lack of resistance (free blowing). Like combining mouthpiece and reed with ligature for resistance desired is the Goldie lox. But still has to be cool looking.
I agree. Best to have the perfect neck cork diameter for that mouthpiece so you don't need too much pressure to turn it. Some ligatures will hold no matter what. In this list all of them hold pretty solidly except for the Yany Sixs and Marc Jean which will slip when turning on a very tight neck cork.
Besides having the better sound to your taste that you want, I think it comes to how much easier it is to play the horn. If I feel one gives me better stability all over on just about any reed, I'll play that one any day over one that just doesn't work right unless it takes a certain reed and ligature. I think you should make a rating chart that shows what you think are the things to making a sax work like it should and rate it from 1-10 and go from there. Almost everyone would say mouthpiece with same brand ligature, stable good reed, and clean sealing horn. I'd like to see what the whole mouthpiece, ligature, reed setup you'd like for the least cost would be for you and then medium cost and then sky is the limit and then describe what issues you've noticed that aren't in the pocket as much as the other or if there isn't a difference. The other issue is what facing number you prefer when you get a mouthpiece and does the ligature matter when you do that also. Of course there's the issue of classical and jazz sound and always assuming your going for jazz.
Have you attempted to play around with two screws by keeping the back screw cranked down but changing the amount of pressure of the front screw (one closest to the mouth) would change the tone?
Vibration makes a big difference, so the contact and weight of the ligature should make a difference. My best comparison of vibration is to take a triangle and play with a string attached and then played by holding it with your fingers. Listen to how dead the sound is when the vibration is affected. So, I find the least contact the ligature has the more the mouthpiece and reed vibrate, which results in a bigger sound
it seems Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Charlie Parker, Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane & Stanley Turrentine, etc. all played on stock ligatures that came with the mouthpiece
They say that the finger is the ideal ligature. But there is a difference between pressing the reed with a thumb, or with a pinky: the thumb has more mass, covers more surface with more pressure. Lighter ligatures are like pressing the reed with a pinky; the reed will seal, but not as good as with heavier ligatures, that seal similarly as the thumb seals the reed.
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Anyone else addicted to Jay comparing saxophone gear?
Ligature are like shoes. If you are comfortable it's all right. But mouthpiece is a different thing. Honestly I think
Yes I love his videos
thanks, I'll make more...
20 minutes of Jay saying, "Well ... does the job." :D Yes, addicted, and I value his honesty.
Not really
Real talk from Jay here. It's so easy to fall into the "buy gear" trap in the hope that it will somehow make you a better musician when, in reality, practice would be the most effective way to improve your skill (also cost-wise). Even after a couple of decades of playing music (mostly as a hobby) I _still_ sometimes need a reminder that it's the archer, not the arrows.
Thanks Anders, always trying to keep it real.
Ive got to say, i appreciate the woven ones more than i thought i would. I saw them and thought “those look childish”, but no, when on the mouthpiece they actually look quite nice. Plus a wee bit to distinguish yours from other instruments always makes me feel a bit more excited to play my instrument. Feels more unique.
The line is from Cannonball on "One for Daddy-O"
Yes!
@@bettersax Pete King borrowed the first part of this line in the MacArthur Park MF1 recording. Love Cannonball
I wish I could get good enough someday where a different ligature would make a dang bit of difference LOL
No matter how good you get, you're never 100% sure the difference isn't in your head...
"If you are a saxophone nerd, like me, having a lot of different ligatures is fun." ~ Love this.
You know Jay, throwing a frequency analyzer on these trials might be kinda fun. I would think, to really notice the differences, you would need to be the one behind the mouthpiece/ligature, but seeing the frequencies might help articulate the subtleties of what you're feeling.
Keep in mind even the same person won't play identically moment to moment. It's all still incredibly subjective and contextual. If you're needing to pull out a frequency analyzer, then I have some news...
There's phone apps for that now. Might be useful for guitar string assessment and electric guitar capacitor selection and their filter setting use. Darker with them means reducing higher tones, I probably don't want darker much , but on those it's a knob twist back to bright
I love 2 screw vintage ligatures!!! You can have both screws equal tightness, or front screw tighter, or looser, for different feels
WOW .. I have only 1 alto 1 mouthpiece 1 ligature As a recent widow raising a special needs child I'm so happy at just having these... but like a kid at Xmas - my eyes boggle at your multi- everything!! you are really blessed 🙌🙏💯
takes a long time to collect all that stuff. thanks.
I feel like what makes a ligature good or bad is how well it keeps the reed sealed against the mouthpiece. Personally, I can't hear a difference in tone between anyone of them so if it seals well then it's good in my book
You should also keep in consideration how it makes the reed feels. A good ligature can create more vibration against the mouthpiece and redd just enough to make it feel easier to blow theough. Though you may not necessarily hear the difference you can feel it.
Exactly...the issue is how long the ligature will hold the reed on the mouthpiece securely. The Vandoren Optimum is my go to ligature..
definitely one of the most important factors. Fiddly ligatures are very annoying and can be problematic.
My go to ligature is from a C melody sax , it's German nickel, from the 1920's, and totally fits my alto Meyer perfectly!!!
@@kennyr1161 hi sir, it's just a feeling or it makes it easier for real?
It's very important to properly lubricate the single screw (or 2 screws) with cork grease, or synthetic key oil. Even 3 -in-one common household hardware store type oil can be used. It's important to prevent gunk buildup, calcium, grit or dirt from contaminating your screws. Apply oil, work in the oil into the threads by tightening and loosening, then wipe off black contaminated oil with tissue or rag.then reapply fresh oil. Remember, the smoother the threads, the more you can feel the overall tightness when final adjusting the overall screw tension.
Oh my goodness! Thank you for this honest review! I've actually been watching videos to learn about what to look for in a new ligature for my clarinet. They will play and say, oh this clearly sounds different from the others, and I think they all sound the same. Feel is a different story. I decided to look for a new one for my son who plays alto sax and found this video. It seems like the first honest one I've seen. So refreshing! I think I'll get him the BG Flex in red since it's his favorite color, will look great on his frosted black nickel sax and black and red are his school colors. It's a win all around.
Great channel. I don't play sax (bass primarily and guitar more lately) but use this channel to educate myself because my son started this year. But I still find myself watching a lot of these videos, really interesting and well done.
Maybe RUclips is telling you to play the sax 😉
Not what I expected. It's refreshing to see an influencer not selling the latest "must haves". I'll show my thanks for your unfiltered opinion by subscribing to this channel now.
Been playing for 65 years, bari, tenor, alto, and have learned that the best ligature is the one that works best in conjunction with the mouthpiece and reed I am using. Period. The idea of a "best" ligature is no more valid than trying to argue who the best player is. In an emergency (broken ligature) I have used string and no one knew the difference.
It seems that if the ligature clamps more evenly and over a larger surface, dampens and couples the reed better to the mouthpiece, the sound can be weightier and probably clearer. Could help on the extremes of dynamics too.
Tons of great insight and advice in this video, thanks so much!
thanks for watching!
The line is from cannonball adderley on the somethin’ else record One for Daddy-O. I love that solo!
I have an old Selmer Paris ligature. I think is like almost 65 years old and it works great for me on my Meyer 6 Small Chamber alto mouthpiece. Very nice and informative video....thanks for your time.
I think there is something to the idea that adding or subtracting mass at the ligature will affect the sound. I’m not an engineer, but I know that mechanical impedance comes into play whenever vibrations are being transferred from one material or medium to another. And mass directly affects impedance. So if the ligature is adding mass at the base of the reed, it stands to reason that would effect how the reed’s vibrations are transferred to the air column and the rest of the instrument.
this has always been heavily debated in the sax community. whatever differences there are are subtle
Ease of use and adjustment on mouthpiece are underrated qualities for a lig. Sure you don’t want it messing with your sound concept too much, but you also don’t want it to shift your reed position when you go to make a small adjustment in a performance.
I’ve been playing on a Vandoren Optimum Ligature for my tenor forever, and it has served me well. I’ve also used it on my secondary baritone and it works completely fine for that as well.
If and when you stumble upon the ligature that will make a difference - that difference is your sense of connectedness with your horn. Your tone will be pretty much the same but the feedback you receive through your teeth / jaw / skull will be that augmented sense of connectedness. Most players never experience this.
I love the JodyJazz Power Ring together with the HR mouthpiece. Feels great, sounds great and looks even greater.
The part I love about that ligature is that it gets a perfect fit every time. It also looks amazing.
Started and still use the Rovner dark. Doesn't seem to matter what Jay uses, he could make a kazoo sound good.
As an ancient miser 100% new to saxophone with old poor condition alto and tenor saxophone on their way and almost a week of googling on saxophone, I will probably get Yamaha 4C and popular quality number 2 cane reeds to start my ligature choices come down to: cheapo 2:screw, Yamaha brand for ligature fit to mouthpiece, one of the Grovner. I have a unfounded preference for the screws going on top. A downside would be a ligature that gets larger with use, or is troublesome to install or remove. Much thanks for your videos, they have been of help.
It really HAS been helpful. Your honesty/transparency really appreciated 👍
Agree, I saw once a fantastic sax player in town and I had the chance to see his sax closer and he was using a metallic hose clamp bought it at autozone, was crazy! But the sound of him on his sax was really great
I have been playing a Berg Larsen ligature on my baritone Berg Larsen HR for 32 years. I tried the BG Duo Gold Lacquered and Sliver Plated. Both are excellent tone and vibration. The tone of the gold is it for me. The intonation improved and the vibration is amazing with cane OR the Legere Signature and American cuts. I am done with bad cane at $8 per reed for baritone reeds. Legere all the way! The rubber feet on the BG take a little getting used to when putting it on the mouthpiece but I love the 1 screw. I look forward to trying the Versa when it is back in stock at my favorite retailer.
I was once in a masterclass & recital with Claude Delangle. He just wrapped a piece of twine around his soprano mouthpiece and reed. I figure if that is good enough for him, than ligatures can't possibly be terribly important. If it works and it doesn't become loose when I move my mouthpiece, then its good to me. Been using a vandoren optimum for 16 years and just some rovners or cheapo 2 screws when the optimum doesn't quite fit my mouthpiece.
The "Set-up.": The sum total of appearance (horn) (Player) player's grooming standards and posture, pairing of the neck, legature, and reed, for overall sound quality, and specific appearance.
What I play and my overall appearance as I play seem to drive my passion to play. Of course, This
intern is reflected into each note. Richard
As a player & dealer have tried most ligs, the Marc Jean is my fav now..more centered tone for me. HAve sold many of them & players can hear a difference.Silverstein if you reverse the metal plates, so they contact the reed works better I feel, but they stretch all to much .
After I got my silverstein ligature i stopped trying others. It is AWESOME!
in fairness, Jay could make a ligature out of a piece of spaghetti and bluetack and still sound like a boss :) 🤣😁
thanks
@@bettersax do it
Fascinated by all the lower jaw movement. Good video on ligs.
haha, yeah my classical sax teacher would not approve.
I feel most comfortable with a Rovner on every mouthpiece. Every reed is different and the Rovner bends to fit them all and puts equal pressure on the table of every reed. It eliminates a variable.
Rovners are always great and last forever.
I use Rovner mouthpieces exclusively too. I think they darken the sound a little bit, they hold the reed well too. Only nitpick is that taking off the ligature can be a bit difficult in that the ligature tends to stick to the mouthpiece sometimes.
Have you tried Ishimori? I’ve never been much of an equipment guy. I’ve been using my main alto mouthpiece for 38 years, and I have been using the same basic gear on all my saxes for about 15 years now. I’m not into gadgets, and I didn’t think much about ligatures for the first half of my career. I used a Charles Bay for many years and was happy. A friend and former teacher introduced me to the original Ishimori ligatures, and I tried not to like it because I just didn’t want to spend the money. It was different though, and I loved it. I’ve been using it for fifteen years now. For me the ligature decision was a response thing. It just made it easier!
I have the Vandoren Optimum and i love it. I find the plate with the 4 'dots' brightest, and best for me. So far. Who knows, i will mostly likely change my mind, lol, I also have the Rovner, and i agree, the plate not covered is best. I immediately heard a difference when you started playing the BG. Nice!
Hey Jay, another outstanding video. Thank you!
How do you feel about the Optimum vs the Rovner? I play an optimum on my alto but recently got a tenor and was thinking of either getting another optimum or the rovner since its a little cheaper
@@simondufour6319 I prefer the Optimum. It's brighter.
Great honest analysis Jay - watched this multiple times.
What a fun, entertaining video, with important closing statements starting at about 18 min! An honest look at the importance of what ligatures, if any, make a difference! ...as a beginner, my inner geek will still buy the fancy ligatures for fun and aesthetics! Thanks, Jay!
Thanks Steve. appreciated.
I did it. Having had nothing else than a fake Rovner and standard Otto Link binders I bought the Jody ring and the rovner verso X. Honestly, sound doesn’t change a bit but the notes seem to feel much more solid, bends go more controlled and even overtones much, much more solid. Never was able to blow overtones past the G (alto) but now easily. So, my take is if you’re a great sax player you wouldn’t need the heavy weight (literally) ligs but if you’re an almost great player both the Jody ring and the Rovner Verso X is at least worth the try!
I’ve still got my Harrison ligature I bought around 1990. In fact, I played some dance jobs with Shirley Harrison (Mr. Harrison’s widow) in the late 90’s. She was a fantastic piano player. The Harrison ligature was invented/manufactured in Nebraska (Fairbury or Beatrice if I recall).
Optimum will always be number 1 for me. It’s held the reed on my mouthpiece for about 5 years now!
those are great ligs. I have it for metal tenor and soprano as well.
A simple piece of string is the benchmark of all ligatures. Hand tied string (waxed silk cord) is still used in Germany, going back to the 19th century.
That being said, I can continue to use my yamaha 4c with the included ligature when learning to play the sax.
I just the single screw leather one and it works great
Some very good advises. Buy a good looking ligature that makes you happy and then keep working on
your sound.
Thanks, Jay, for a good comparison of a lot of options. In a ‘scientific’ experiment or study like this, a ‘control’ or ‘controls’ held constant are essential to ensure fair comparison. In this case the key constant is the reed, but I don’t think you stated what reed you are playing. Can you tell us?
Thank you so much for the video! Theo Wanne has cool plates in different materials and the difference in sound is noticeable. Try it!
This video made me switch back to the Versa on my main horn--and flip the flaps around lol. I thought it was almost too much, but the fact it gave the most distinctive sound (and in a good way) was pretty obvious. I got the original Versa on clearance and it's great but without cramming a tiny piece of paper/cardboard under the plate it will fall out. Probably why it was initially redesigned.
The Jody Jazz power ring had the best articulation clarity over the whole range you played, and the bottom end sounded very nice as well. 👍 The BG Duo, and the Rovner Versa-X also in the same class. Yep, the Yani Sixs was good without as gutsy a bottom as the others, and you’re right, very subtle differences. I can make the direct sound brighter or darker depending on how much mouthpiece I take in.
All said and done,
Good advice Jay. 😉
Based on this video, I purchased a Vandorem optimum. I am extremely happy as I finally got that bright alternative rock I’ve been looking for using the “crinkle cut” plate. The other two plates will definitely give you a warmer sound… Good for jazz.
I've found through the years that almost any ligature works a little better than the one that comes with the horn. First get the right mouthpiece/reed combo to suit the sound you prefer. Heat & humidity variances seem tough on reeds, but some ligatures seem to help more in such situations, allowing the reed to play more freely. Great video.
This is a good demo. I've been playing the Vandoren optimum ligature forever and it works with my set up. I've been tempted to try something else for fun, but I think I'd be asking for trouble 😊
Great presentation Jay!…You put the whole “ligature subject” in its proper perspective….Thanks!👌😉
The ideal ligatures are the ones which fit under my favorite mouthpiece caps. I used to use keyring rings but they cause MP cap fit problems. Single-screw cheapo ligs from the Great Auction Site are my current faves. Though for the less-common instruments like my C-Mels or baritone, I have to settle for what I can get.
definitely important to have a well fitted mouthpiece cap match. This is one of the important factors for me when choosing a ligature to use on gigs. Also that cap needs to fit in my pocket when playing. Some caps are way too big.
It’s a feeling thing , the sound will not or have a very subtle change. Maybe one day you will find one that you love and think that you play better wich is psychological. I feel that i play better with the jody jazz power ring because of the weight so i stick with it.
It's a wonder Jay can play at all? When does he practice? He never stops making videos 😱
Ligatures are definitely a subjective component in the ammo box. Really like how you sound using the power ring. I use gold optimum’s on bot soprano and bari. I use power rings and Olegature’s on alto and tenor depending on which mouthpiece I’m using on either.
yeah, the power ring is really growing on me.
Marc Jeans all the way. Never thought ligs would have an impact on my sound, but i was wrong.
What matters is how far the ligature is pushed forward. This will affect the vibration of the reed in terms of how much of the entire reed vibrates.
The nice thing with the woven ligature is you can stuff one in your case somewhere and if you break one or step on it and then lost your backup or nobody’s got a spare ligature it will be there tucked away in the crack of your case. I keep a rovner just for that emergency. Rovners tend to shift the reed around in my opinion
Pretty much confirmed what I already strongly believe ... should have spent the time watching this PRACTICING. Would have been fun to see you play one of those ligatures that look like a halo worn by neck-injury patients - with screws to the head from several directions. AND, maybe rubber bands, or cellophane tape used as ligatures. Just for fun. A ligature that doesn't get easily squashed or otherwise distorted from careless handling is one of MY priorities.
I think one of the key points which could be highlighted more is mainly how the ligature feels to play. Also, the transition between notes, legato, articulation. I know from the ligs I have tried all of them might produce a similar sound to the ear, possibly, but the playing experience and feel are totally different. For example, I use a metal Selmer lig on a original Guardala, and wow does that open up the register, fluidity and sound. Any other lig including the one Guardala shipped with his pieces, doesn't seem to have that rich vibrant tone, Guardala lig is slightly sweet, squished tone, articulations is different too.
Having various ligatures to choose from can be a help in maintaining a consistent reponse of the set up , baring in mind that reeds, and chops, room accoustics, humidity, air pressure, altitude, planetary alignments, solar winds, etc can change the feel of the set- up.So for me having various ligature options helps me sound the SAME for each performance, and assists me staying close to my "ideal" set- up sound and response. Before each gig I "audition"3 or 4 ligs and go with my favourite for that particular setting.
I use Vandoren Optimum ligatures on my tenor and soprano. Had them for well over 10 years. Love 'em. I don't think listeners will know the difference. But YOU will. And that will affect the way you play. So, it kinda "does" affect your sound??? Just not directly, as Jay points out.
You are absolutely right. On a well balanced reed the ligature is making no difference. On a reed that develops warps, the points a ligature holds the reed can make a huge difference. Ray Reed wrote a book about balanced reeds.
Ligatures, to me, are just like the other tone booster gadgets, the player will feel the difference and will make the player more confident rather there actually be a tone difference. I once used shoelaces on a gig on a dare and I got more compliments on that gig than any other haha.
unlike the tone booster gadgets, they are necessary (even if it's a shoelace).
@@bettersax When you're right, you're right!
I tried shoelaces for a while as well. Nicest feeling of all ligs when playing, just a bit of a faff to install.
Thank you. I’ll be returning the leather Vandoren I ordered. I’ll stick with the one that came with my Yamaha 😊
One of your best yet Jay!
thanks Bob!
This is great but I wonder if you were in a jam could you use a radiator hose clamp or a zip tie?
I instantly noticed a deeper tone when you used the d'addorio Harrison copy
What I would want to know is the reason why one design sounds different than another? Is it just a matter of the force used to hold the reed? Is there something about the contact points for the reed?
The BG duo seemed to cut through more and was the first ligature I noticed a difference in. I agree with the first Rovner having some meat to it, and the second was darker for sure.
thanks for listening and the feedback.
A criterion you might not have mentioned in the video that I look for is that the ligature does not dampen the reed too much that I lose a bit of response, which I do run into that problem with some ligatures. I do want it to hold the reed well, but not to the point of stifling it!
I just got the Yani SIXS for my A-4. It made a huge difference on the low notes
No Abelet ligature in the line-up ? 😉 As a ligature maker, I do agree that the ligature does not come first in the building of the sound. But it can make a noticeable difference. I remember a trial session with Jean-Pierre Baraglioli. I had 2 pieces of the same model, one made out of brass, the other made of bronze. The brass was a clear NO, the bronze a maybe and I could only agree with that.
I feel there was an improvement from the initial “standard” lig to the Harrison. From there on differences were really subtle. To my ear the Rovner with the plates was a bit of a standout.
thanks for your feedback.
kinda depends on the reed. Depending on any given day, if I'm getting an unsatisfactory results with 1 set- up I'll try a different lig and sometimes it helps. I generally have 2 or 3 different ligs handy for alto, tenor & clarinet. I like the H, but I also like Luyben (for clar.), Vandoren M/O, certain Rovs (the new one with the slits). As long as long as the reed doesn't move around I'm happy- 1 screw, 2 screw, no screw, I don't care so much
you should do this exact video but for mouthpieces
Great video, thanks for making the effort. Here's what my ear hears:
Vandoeren Optimum - a little darker than the previous ligs
Theo Wanne - similar to Vandoren a little darker
Marc Jean - slightly better tone
Peter Jensen - takes a tiny bit of the edge off
BG Duo - brighter, perhaps even buzzier. Not necessary a better tone.
Rovner Van Gogh - darker, softens the brightness
To me, the ligature can impact tone, but the more important thing for me is reed response, does it impact how the reed plays?
Would be cool to know the price differences across these. IMHO, you can get a usable sound even with a rubber band... the main goal is that the ligature keeps the reed firmly attached to the mouthpiece.
Thanks for the great video!
@Alan Morgan What is your point actually? I listened to this video using AKG K240 studio headphones. Are you saying I can't tell the difference, or are you saying you hear far greater differences than what I noted above? Feel free to provide your mouthpiece by mouthpiece comparison notes like I did to let me know what you are hearing.
I’m not sold on “magic” ligatures and prefer to think about them as stated in your earlier video, “Are they doing their job?". I prefer Theo’s ligature because on the variety of mouthpieces that I play, it seems the easiest to exactly locate the plate position while maintaining a good grip--gripping without denting my reed (I hate that). Some mpcs play well with the plate forward, others like it further back. Slip-on or ring type pieces leave me guessing where that pressure point on the reed starts. For me, positioning the plate seems much more important for noticeable tonal characteristics than plate material or plate geometry differences.
all valid points
When first I got my soprano, I used zip ties cause the music shop didn't have any. If it holds the read on, your good😀
Zip ties make great ligatures! I even preferred them over my fancy ligs for a while because they're so fast to install.
I am not saying there isnt a feel difference to any of those but...... the sound difference was so subtle to my ears that the cost of most would sway me away from them. M/O or cheap one at the beggining and done for me. To each their own. Ultimately if it gets you to practice then it is worth it.
Playing a SYOS Smoky 7 tip on my Selmer Series 2 alto. I like the mouthpiece, but wanted a darker sound. Tried a Rovner 1-RL; it definitely gave me a darker sound than the SYOS lig. YMMV.
I have found, occasionally, that certain mpc/lig combos do not hold the reed down where it needs to be for a good seal. Where it holds on the reed matters. This is not the case for most mpcs, but for some 'oddballs'. I found this to be the case in a Lamberson DD Bari mpc. It really mattered where the lig pushed the reed on the mpc. Couldn't use BG Duo version of tenor that fit and I use a lot (just sounded horrible), but found another that was day/night. But not a normal occurance.
The facing of the mouthpiece is very important for this.
I guess most good players will gravitate towards the sound in their "inner" ear, no matter the gear. You might not hear it in the audience, but the player might feel that a piece of gear makes it easier or harder to produce "his" sound, high notes, splittones etc.
To me, the ligatures impact is most noticable during very quiet phrases or on the extreme high or low end of the horn. Also mostly in classical music when the sound has to be almost sterilely clean. So I think it'd be interesting to hear all those again on a ballad or a classical piece :)
good points. this is an endless rabbit hole of experimentation for sure.
Starting over 70 years ago, I always used my logs with the screws on the bottom (reed side). There seemed to be perfect contact and holding power - plus I got used to what appeared to me a cleaner look under my nose. And so I’ve kept it that way. Most players seem to be placing the screws on top of- like you demonstrated. How about the other way (on the bottom)? I admit that there’s more reed contact, but does that make a difference? Some mps cut out most of the reed table just to “let it vibrate more”. So why not the ligature? How about adjusting the mp position without the reed moving difference between ligatures? ALSO … I used a few “power”/whatever rings and the hardest part was taking them off.
Beyerdynamic ribbon mic. I use that one too. Underrated for saxophone!
just getting to know it, but really like it so far.
Great Video! I love these reviews they are always so informative! ❤️
thanks Nathan
hi ! regarding the Vandoren Optimum ligature as per the notice the vertical pressure plate is for a rich colorful sonority great resonance blowing and articulation ease / the horizontal one compact and centered sonority smooth and even sound extraordinary blowing ease / the one with the four points or dots the reed vibrates in total freedom producing a very flexible sound greater ease of expression
I love my Jody jazz mouth piece and matching ligature on my alto sax 🎷 and use vandoren optimum on the tenor sax 🎷 I’ve had it ages and still looks as good as the day I purchased it thumbs on both ligatures , I also think it depends what sax model you use and mouthpiece plus reed , but I do agree purchase one that fits good on your mouthpiece that all what counts not the price 👍
I like a cool looking ligature like the next sax gear junky. But my pet peeve are the ligatures you can’t easily move the mouthpiece on cork. I think ligatures help dial in resistance or lack of resistance (free blowing). Like combining mouthpiece and reed with ligature for resistance desired is the Goldie lox. But still has to be cool looking.
I agree. Best to have the perfect neck cork diameter for that mouthpiece so you don't need too much pressure to turn it. Some ligatures will hold no matter what. In this list all of them hold pretty solidly except for the Yany Sixs and Marc Jean which will slip when turning on a very tight neck cork.
I always stuck with Rovner….seemed to work well with Selmer mouthpieces
Besides having the better sound to your taste that you want, I think it comes to how much easier it is to play the horn. If I feel one gives me better stability all over on just about any reed, I'll play that one any day over one that just doesn't work right unless it takes a certain reed and ligature. I think you should make a rating chart that shows what you think are the things to making a sax work like it should and rate it from 1-10 and go from there. Almost everyone would say mouthpiece with same brand ligature, stable good reed, and clean sealing horn. I'd like to see what the whole mouthpiece, ligature, reed setup you'd like for the least cost would be for you and then medium cost and then sky is the limit and then describe what issues you've noticed that aren't in the pocket as much as the other or if there isn't a difference. The other issue is what facing number you prefer when you get a mouthpiece and does the ligature matter when you do that also. Of course there's the issue of classical and jazz sound and always assuming your going for jazz.
good idea for a video. Honestly I would not characterize any of the ligatures I played as making playing easier. They all played equally easily.
Saw the titel and thought, " yeah, I hate it too when my francoise louise ultimate ligature is lost somewhere in the case..."
haha
I have this ligature as well ..very pleasing
Like the song, Jay. Yours?
@Keanan Sorry, I meant the background music when he’s talking. Knew of the Cannononball line. Thanks though!👍🏾
Have you attempted to play around with two screws by keeping the back screw cranked down but changing the amount of pressure of the front screw (one closest to the mouth) would change the tone?
yeah, I was told that when I was a kid. I think I always do that on 2 screw ligatures out of habit. Did not experiment with that here though.
Pretty sure it’s the talent and practice/expertise in your case buddy!!! 🙏🚀
Vibration makes a big difference, so the contact and weight of the ligature should make a difference. My best comparison of vibration is to take a triangle and play with a string attached and then played by holding it with your fingers. Listen to how dead the sound is when the vibration is affected. So, I find the least contact the ligature has the more the mouthpiece and reed vibrate, which results in a bigger sound
That's funny Jay, I asked you yesterday about a ligature for my new Jody Jazz DV :) thanks great video btw. Sid.
You and several other people daily.lol...
it seems Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Charlie Parker, Stan Getz, Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane & Stanley Turrentine, etc. all played on stock ligatures that came with the mouthpiece
They say that the finger is the ideal ligature. But there is a difference between pressing the reed with a thumb, or with a pinky: the thumb has more mass, covers more surface with more pressure. Lighter ligatures are like pressing the reed with a pinky; the reed will seal, but not as good as with heavier ligatures, that seal similarly as the thumb seals the reed.