Morgan was definitely talking about sexual availability when she was talking about not neglecting your husband's needs just cause you have children. I know, because i was still a christian when i became a mom. And all the women were whispering to me, "just don't neglect your husband, make sure he doesn't feel left out or forgotten. Make sure his needs are met too." And they all meant sexually. Because unfortunately men's sexual needs are placed on this ridiculous pedestal in christian marriages. They all made it super clear, especially when they found out i was a nursing mom. One of the women who was in the lead ministry actually asked my husband if he was "okay with having to share me with the baby". Kid you not. It is a vile mindset that is drilled into young moms, that you cannot neglect your husband's "needs" just cause the baby is born. Like i was shocked how much they hounded me about it. I was 5 weeks postpartum, and these women are insinuating that i must give my husband sex in order that he doesn't feel neglected. It's such a sick mindset, and I'm so glad I'm not in that religion anymore And it's really distressing to see this mindset still being pushed, but in a much sinister way. As if it's not gonna be blatantly obvious considering the men aren't being hounded about "neglecting your wife's needs" once the baby is born. In fact some of the men were telling my husband "hang in there buddy, it's hell but you can get through it." And it was just about not having sex after i gave birth to a living fking human being. And was nursing that tiny human with my body too. Ugh. I hate that so much for any woman in the church.
Yeah, not to mention that some women take longer to recover from birth than 5-6 weeks and/or have a traumatic experience from birth and/or post partum depression. I know some argue: ,,If she really loved her husband, she would do it anyway." And to that I could I say: ,,If he really loved his wife, he would care about her mental and physical recovery first and foremost and would never force her, manipulate her or guilt trip her into sex." Or: "If he loved, he would want her to enjoy sex too." Words like duty and/or obligation in my opinion should never be used together with sex. It creates the weird and creepy idea that you don´t have a say in the matter, that your own feelings are unimportant or that you don´t own your own body, but is just a piece of flash to satisfy your husband/partner.
To be a little more than fair, you run into things like that in the secular world as well. Some of it is real though. It's extremely common for new Mother's to kind of move their husband out of the way. There's one guy that I know whose wife actually moved him out of the master bedroom while he was at work so that she could move the nursery in next to her. They finally got counseling but she would barely let him hold his son for the first several months. With postpartum depression and all of the other things that women can go through after childbirth, sometimes it's just a struggle. But in a relationship people do have a responsibility to each other. Sometimes they forget that they need to be understanding.
@@jarodstrain8905 That's not what I'm talking about. While new mothers will prioritize their newborns needs because the baby unlike a grown man, cannot help itself. It literally relies on the mother for everything. I'm not talking about the more extreme cases of mothers neglecting their partner. I'm talking about weaponized incompetence, where the grown husband will act like he isn't capable of allowing the new baby to get more attention, because it's a baby. Also the whole thing about women taking over and not letting her husband do anything most likely stemmed from weaponized incompetence on behalf of her husband. I cannot count how many new fathers would gripe about changing diapers, getting up to feed the baby so mom can get some much needed sleep. Also I'm specifically speaking about Morgan and the ideological mindset she has towards "serving" her husband. The other cases you are speaking about have nothing to do with this specific lifestyle Morgan preaches. Also like you pointed out, people have a responsibility to each other, that includes the husband being understanding that his wife has a bigger priority at the moment, and he needs to take into consideration her post partum needs and adapt. It's sounds like you are just siding with the men and acting like women need to do all the damn compromising. 🙄
I do actually agree with the you're not marrying their family part. I've had multiple dates where I was told having a poor relationship with my family was a "red flag." I would argue wanting abusers, traffickers, people who hurt others with no remorse, etc... to stay in your life is a much larger red flag. I come with a dog. That's about it.
I remember a popular sit com on the BBC called Gavin & Stacey. It's not just about the couple themselves but their families as well who come together and all of them meet up for Christmas and visits in the summer. So when they decide to have Christmas with Gavin's parents in Essex Stacey's mother and uncle come up too. Likewise when they decide to have Christmas in Barry in South Wales Gavin's parents are also invited. Not only that Stacey's best friend Nessa comes to & also Gavin's best friend Smithy. Nessa & Smithy have a one night stand when they all first meet & Nessa accidentally becomes pregnant from it so Nessa & Smithy co-parent which brings them back together. Nessa & Smithy are played by the two actors who write the series.
Wow people actually say it's a red flag? That's horrible! But you've got your dog and dogs are always family so it looks like you get along really well with your family after all!
I had similar feelings. I think of my sister and her boyfriend. He’s always with us for holidays and such because he’s on bad terms with his family and our family is pretty great. It all honestly depends.
@@bigtombowski I know my pet cockatiel did. She was very tame but she took a few hours to get to know visitors. She would observe them & if she liked them she would get too friendly with them. But she didn't like four of them. One of them was the project manager responsible for my bathroom & kitchen refurbishments. She only had an admin & marketing background in construction so had never been an electrician, plumber, tiler or carpenter before so didn't know what she was doing on a practical level.
I get major narcissist vibes from that guy. Even when she disagrees, she has to tiptoe around disagreeing to make it sounds like she agrees. Her laughter seems like a coping mechanism to hide her feelings of ick for his weird behavior.
The laughter felt very much like a deflection and/or coping mechanism for sure. I used to do that a lot when I was younger and Christian. It felt safer to ease men’s feelings by laughter.
I usually have just the opposite impression of Paul and Morgan. I get the vibe that Paul is basically a beck and call boy and Morgan does the little act to make it seem like he's in charge. You don't notice it as much in some videos, but in many, Paul is clearly one of those guys that followed some girl around in highschool like a puppy while she dated someone else.
When I was hard core Christian I’d go to conferences and one of the speakers gave this scenario where you your spouse and your three children go overboard a ship. Your youngest can’t swim. They implied the Godly thing would be to swim first to your spouse and ensure their survival because YOU CAN HAVE MORE KIDS and the marriage is most important. I’m not even a parent now at 31, but if my spouse let our child drown for my sake I’d be serving divorce papers.
I think some of this is these pastors honestly taking the Bible too literally. Fair chunks of the Old Testament have a theme of preserving life. In the past, when children usually died young, an attitude of putting adults over children was adaptive. Many of your children would not live into the double digits so many cultures had this idea of kids not being fully human or not yet having a soul until they had survived out of young childhood. In those cases, saving the mother and older children was the correct thing to do because the mother was a full human with a soul and the older kids were full humans while the little ones are still partially in Heaven. Now that most children survive infancy and childhood it's absolutely unthinkable. The idea of "preserving life" has gone to a level that is very different from the original interpretation. And I think that's good. Parents can sacrifice themselves for their kids and have hope the kids will still be cared for well.
Yes! The whole "kids or partner" discussion is so weird. Like yes, of course it's usually beneficial for the mental health and development of your children when you and your partner are engaging in a friendship and a healthy communicating relationship. But if e.g. your partner was abusive, you wouldn't stay with your partner and damage your children, you would take your kiddies and get the fuck out of there Like, right?
It's not biblical, either. This is a situation where you leave the 99 to take care of the 1. Children depend entirely on their parents while your spouse is an adult and must be expected to take care of himself.
Maybe it's just a RUclips thing, like performing for the camera, but they are the perfect representation of the "inauthentic Christian" personality that I constantly feel with Christian people in their 20s. It's like this very specific type of social performance where you don't feel like they are allowed to just exist, so they are always being a kind of character -- like they're playing a role. Anyone else get that?
I definitely do get that vibe from them as well. It feels very… fake, like their mannerisms, shows of affection, even some of their beliefs feel like they’re trying to cover for something. It’s all very exaggerated and feels inauthentic. Like you said, it feels like they’re just playing a character and that they’re not being themselves
@@kai_maceration yeah. Morgan especially with those weird moves and facial shifts. If both or one of them were high, it would make the whole thing even more disturbing
@@hojosconsal9913 I just mean the voice they talk in and how they're constantly joking around, I don't want to get into analyzing their body language I don't really buy into that personally
@@kai_maceration agree. Body lenguage stuff is usually just a bunch of nonsense. But she does give a weird vibe and our subconscious is able to somewhat detect weird patterns
His air quotes around "scholars" is one of the most dangerous attitudes of modern evangelicals. Even all of the dehumanizing, horrible positions that many evangelicals take at their root are enabled by this attitude that grants them the freedom to take the Bible literally over what factually gets the best results. They're literally saying "I know this looks like a bad choice, but I'm making it anyway because God says".
Her awkward relationship with "psychology or whatever haha" is also a bad attitude, psychology relies on statistical studies that aren't just "or whatever".
@Marissa Cole There are many, many examples I could cite, but in the case of this video in particular it's the rejection of egalitarian marriage structure in favor of Biblical marriage. I, personally, don't actually know what the research says on the matter. That's not the point. The point is they're saying they're going with the Biblical definition of marriage structure whether or not the research agrees. In fact, that segment of the video seems to suggest they know the research says otherwise. But the classic example is gay conversion therapy. It's well and thoroughly documented that conversion therapy rarely if ever works and does significant harm to the majority of participants. Yet we have evangelicals up to and including our elected legislators advocating for it because the Bible, by their interpretation, says homosexuality is evil. The "Christian therapy" industry is yet another example. There's no issue with therapists who are Christian and who incorporate Christian ideas into their therapy where it makes sense and where it's clear their patients welcome it. But much of the Christian therapy world is unaccredited and favors Biblical concepts over tested, fact-based approaches to therapy. Some of the bigger programs have no basis in rigorous research whatsoever. Abstinance only and anti-contraception positions are another great example. We have mountains of evidence that one of the most effective ways to decrease teen unwanted pregnancies and STD transmission, including AIDS, is robust sex education and the availability of contraception (for STD's specifically barrier based contraception). But there are these movements that go so far as to withhold international aid when certain US administrations are in power if the programs receiving that aid promote contraception use or teach anything other than abstinance only sex ed.
The most hilarious and absurd thing to me about most Christians that they deny science, but accept that the Bible is translated by humans, but they don't take the science as more accurate than the human translated texts. Science is nothing but a method of evaluating and understanding reality. If you believe truly that a god created all of reality and everything in it, then why wouldn't you take into consideration reality and the study of it at all? When I was still indoctrinated, this always confused me. I would ask all the time why God would create reality in a way that conflicts with the written teachings and purposefully deceives us. Would it be much easier for humans to corrupt a written text than for god to allow his entire creation to be messed with and twisted? I had massive arguments with my fundamentalist family when I discovered the existence of intersex people. I was so excited because, as someone who's been gender non-conforming for my entire life, I was ecstatic to believe that God made people neither strictly male or female, and that in betweens existed clearly within his design for us. I told my homophobic, transphobic family that we must have interpreted something incorrectly, Not even that the texts were incorrect, just that we had misinterpreted something, as We believed that god created humanity, and humans clearly were not resigned to a strict binary thus God could not impose strictly binary gender roles onto a group of beings without strictly binary sexes and genders. I was scolded and told that Satan probably created intersex people because their parents sinned or that intersex people were a myth made up by secular people and the devil to leave people away from God's design for us, and that to even question the gender binary was blasphemy. To this day, I'm really thankful for that interaction. That was the day I realized that none of these people actually believed in an all-just creator of the universe and everything in it. No matter what any God had to say, they were going to believe what they wanted to believe, and they were only using the authority of a made-up god to spread their insane and hateful beliefs.
Also, I would like to address the notion that divorce is the worst outcome in marriage. Very often, it is better for everyone. I would say ruling out divorce is the advice I disagree with the absolute most. If I didn’t have that mentality, my marriage would have ended quickly, which might have been very beneficial.
Agree. I live in Denmark and we have high rates of divorce. Since we are a secular people it's not taboo or viewed negatively. It just is. Break ups from a relationships is not a fun experience but not because of a piece of paper. In the 4 countries I've lived in the guilt and shame of divorce is very much cultural and mostly based on religious beliefs.
@@charisma-hornum-fries Fine if you don't have children. However, divorce, deeply impacts children most of the time. It's very destabilizing emotionally (also, often economically for the family). No-one likes to acknowledge that though b/c it really comes down to the adult's decisions. The child usually has zero say in the breakup of their family and in the two people they love and depend on the most. Say what you will about how children are resilient, etc., but I've seen too many affected by divorce...and not in positive ways.
@@kristinab1078 but it's not all sweet from the other side either. My parents stayed together but they shouldn't have. Majority of my childhood I remember them having screaming arguments almost every night. They were trying to poison us, the kids, against the other one. I was praying that they divorce. They never did and still suffer with each other even tho everyone would have been thousand times better off if they separated.
@@barborajureckova8172 I do get where you’re coming from with this, I was in a similar situation when I was a child, but divorce itself can be fairly traumatic to a child. Child psychology essentially demands stability in a child’s life for them to grow up mentally healthy and life-changing sudden shifts (ie divorce) can be a traumatic experience. It’s unfortunately bad on both ends. I don’t think high divorce rates are necessarily good but I also don’t think people need to stay stuck in unhappy or even abusive marriages just for the sake of the kids. I don’t think divorce should be in any way stigmatized as it is just separation (with extra legal hoops and paperwork) but as in all relationships, splitting should be the last resort. Divorce should be treated the same way imo, especially if you have children together. My only exceptions would be if the partner or children are in immediate danger of domestic violence and/or are actively being abused (physically, emotionally, mentally, sexually) cuz in those cases, your safety is much more important in these situations
I'm bisexual and realized later on in life that I've been had crushes on most of my close friends. Several of those friends are now married, I've stood up at their weddings, and I've been open about having crushes on them in the past. It's never been an issue for them or their spouses because they've never been interested in me like that and I completely accept that and still want them and their spouses in my life. Like excuse me for wanting to surround myself with intelligent, charming, beautiful people lol
I mean, that’s great that this works for you, but idk I think some people have all or nothing prospective taking over them.(I have this problem to some extent tbh)
@@BaranKamali-dx4fj Yeah I think that's a perspective that the majority of people share. I just also think it's worth considering why you feel that way and that some of us feel very differently. Most of my friends are also queer, and this is just what's normal for our friend group. I just think it's a shame that some people will meet someone they really admire and then decide they have to stop talking to that person because either they're in a relationshup or the other person is in a relationship or just doesn't reciprocate. And I don't like the implication that finding someone attractive means you won't be able to control yourself around them. It's possible to meet someone you're attracted to and decide to just pursue friendship because you think they're super cool as a person
@@stellablake6200 yeah I agree. But most people (including me) can’t handle complex situations tbh I don’t think many even want to.I believe it’ll get so much better with confrontation.But I really think it depends on where you are in life and how much mature you’re.
Yes there is no one size fits all approach to relationships (either romantic or platonic)! I was once in love with someone in my friend group but I was happy to see him in a great relationship with his girlfriend. Yeah it hurt that he didn't feel that way about me but the love and joy I experienced from his friendship far exceeded the hurt. I know that's not necessarily the case for everyone though.
I see it too. Morgan wouldn't pull paul out of a burning car and Paul will never stop bringing up the fact that she slept with like one person before him, because he's still mad about it. They are pathetic.
Paul and Morgan have NO chemistry together. It’s so weird. It’s like they just met 5 minutes before the camera started rolling. Paul talks to her like she’s a child and she follows it. For a married couple, there’s nothing between them.
I'm no therapist, but I don't know why Morgan doesn't speak as much as Paul. Paul seems to treat their program as an excuse to lecture us and Morgan on how HE interprets Biblical passages. He doesn't seem to even need her there.
As a parent, I 100% put my children ahead of my partner. And he does the same. We're adults. We can take care of ourselves. Our kids can't take care of themselves yet. Most of my day goes into taking care of them. But that doesn't mean my relationship is neglected. You do need to find time to keep your relationship strong. But the children need to come first. Usually when I hear Christians talk about putting their spouse first, it's used as a way to justify neglect and abuse. And it often does mean the woman is expected to take care of the man on demand, ignoring the children if it interferes with meeting his "needs."
I agree. It's a product of guilting a woman into having more kids than she can handle and not expecting any actual parenting effort from the man. So naturally the woman is in constant crisis mode and she has to be told its ok to neglect her kids to service her husband. While the couple is told to actively ignore any needs the woman might have. When women are free to choose family size, men are expected to be active parents and the needs of women are treated equally to their husband's, carving out enough time for a relationship to flourish is a natural part of family life that is the responsibility of both people. Noone's needs go unmet chronically.
You have to figure out how to bond out of child rearing i guess.. something my parents never did and even have the audacity to subtly resent me and my siblings for their own incapablity to be able to do that..
This bothered me so much, this gender imbalance in the way Paul and Morgan addressed this bit. It's like the fathers aren't even expected to care for either the children or the wife, so they don't need to even think about one needs to be prioritized over the other. I mean, Paul obviously hadn't given it any thought until Morgan brought it up.
The no friends of the opposite sex/no alone time with those of opposite sex hits hard with me. I have lost pretty much all my male identifying friends after marriage, a scary number of whom literally said to me my wife doesn't want me to spend time with you anymore. I had no interest in dating, marrying, or having sex with any of these people. They were FRIENDS who, from my perspective, I lost due to jealous, insecure wives. I seriously do not get why people are so into this idea.
I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but people only have so much willpower. The fewer opportunities people have to cheat the less likely it is that they will. There's no way for your friends' wives no know you're not interested. I'm not even religious, but I'm sympathetic to wanting to reduce the odds of your partner cheating. But this also seems like an increasingly futile endeavor.
@@isbalella I hope people are with partners who know how to see others as just friends and remain true to their commitments. I don’t think adult mature people are like incapable of knowing and navigating their feelings. Idk, if it’s hard for someone to not have different romantic/sexual connections with others, then they are maybe poly..? Or like should explore that! Idk, I’m jus like… get in a relationship understanding who are you are as an individual and communicate your needs and boundaries.
@@isbalella If someone wants to cheat, they will no matter if you control their every move. Probably more likely to do so if you do. And a person who will not cheat will not cheat no matter how many people will be in their periphery. You can not control whether someone cheats on you. Only what you do if they do. They can't hide it forever. You WILL know if they do. It doesn't matter how many men might be in my general vicinity, doesn't matter what they look or act like. I love my partner. And I ain't interested in anyone else. My partner has many female friends, more than male. I am very comfortable with that and he tells me about them often. I think it's very positive that he has female friends. These are women he respects, cares for, wants the best for with no interest to get into their pants. Because why would he? He respects people equally no matter what's in their pants. Like a reasonable adult. I feel like some people out there are just horny and will f*ck whatever moves. And that's not who you should be marrying. If that's your partner, they don't love you and you're wasting time. You should want them to cheat on you because then you can leave knowing they are a pos. I've never understood the mentality to force a person to be faithful to you. Is that faithfulness? Not to me.
@@TheHestya I feel like there's room for nuance here. It's not just as simple as "pick better and you won't be cheated on." I believe there are people who absolutely will not cheat under any circumstance just as much as I know there are people who will do everything in their power to cheat. But I think many people lie somewhere in the middle, where their odds of cheating will vary based on desire to do so, opportunities, etc. I mean otherwise it wouldn't be the case that something like half of all people experience infideltity. So I think the realistic thing to do is to create guardrails/boundaries accordingly. For example, I don't have a problem with my partner having friends of the opposite sex but it's not appropriate for them to hang out in private. That leaves far less room for one thing leading to another. I for one don't believe anyone including myself is infallible, so I create boundaries accordingly. Sometimes it's not about whether you want to or not, it's about not setting yourself up to fail. And if you have absolute faith in your partner and want to create your boundaries based on that, then that's great for you. I do think it's extreme for partners to not "let" each other have friends of the opposite sex.
I don't look at it the same way at all. I think if you love someone, you can't do that to them. And having someone available for f*cking will not change that. You either respect your partner or you don't. Is a person a good partner if the only reason they're not cheating on you is because they don't have someone near them to do it with? Or does the fact they would if they had the opportunity make them a pos already? I'd prefer to know and be able to leave and move on with my life earlier rather than later tbh.
I've been in a committed relationship for 23 years. We're not married. We've been happy together for 23 years. We don't have kids. I certainly wouldn't get my relationship advice from these two!
@@grace-4072 My partner and I are wildlife biologists and we've traveled the country doing research projects together in the great outdoors. Having mutual interests really sustains a couple over the long haul. We behave as equals and find real help in each other's strengths. She is good at many things that I am not, and so I learn from her. I imagine the opposite is true as well. Communication is of the essence, respectful, honest communication. We've always asked ourselves one question: Is the relationship healthy/edifying? We fundamentally respect one another and give each other room to change. Over decades of life, change is inevitable, but it can be exhilarating to reach new places together, even if it seems scary at first. Sex is important but not the most important thing. We're moderate in our sexuality I would say, but there's an intimacy to it that adds a nice dimension to our relationship. We laugh together all the time and make up goofy songs as we travel and try to remain young and playful as we age. Listen. Listen. Listen. We all need to be better at hearing what the other person is trying to say. Cultivate a safe harbor for your partner so that they can feel comfortable in revealing who they are and who they want to become. I'm lucky. I came from an abusive, dysfunctional evangelical household and am estranged from much of my family because I left the faith. I was in a lot of pain in my mid-20's and could easily see that relationships could potentially be very difficult for me. But I met this woman who felt like "home" in the good way, in the way I never had when I was a child. When that happens, don't take it for granted. Be grateful for a partnership and tell them so. Anyway, just some thoughts...hope you're well, too!
@@scottstollery2191 This is so beautiful to read! My partner and I have been together for 12 years and so much of what you said rings true and familiar. Wishing you another amazing 23+ years! For the person who asked for advice, if you want another (fairly similar, lol) perspective - be silly together, do as much as you can to support the other person's interests/hobbies, maintain some separate interests/hobbies/friends/etc, learn to communicate with each other without getting too angry, learn to apologize and mean it and do better, keep growing both as your own person and in trying to be a better partner.. I could go on. My biggest piece of advice is to recognize - not just say it but actually really feel it and remind yourself of it - that every day you spend with this person is a choice for both of you. Don't take them for granted. Say thank you and remind them of things you love about them. You are choosing every day to be with them and they are choosing to be with you.
@@azuradawn5683 Thank you for saying so and for your insightful effort in adding to the list. When I was writing my comment, I felt as though I were writing these things to her. A thank you note as it were. I'm sure you were doing the same. No doubt about it, long term relationships will have difficulties, but many amazing, unexpected things can grow from it as well. I'm wishing you and your partner the same! Take care!
Who among us (who has ever been in a male headship household) has heard the male head say, “absolutely! You’re better at this than me, please take charge!” Because….I certainly never did.
The discussion of this entire point is also so cringey because it's basically P: men are the leaders M: yeah but sometimes women still get to decide things and have agency P: yeah sure, when I allow it but I'm still the Boss. Ewewewew. Like you can see how she isn't really on board with this and how he makes sure to assert his dominance or whatever.
My husband and I were very deep in the fundamental Christian lifestyle when we got married. I am now non-religious and he is kind of on the fence of agnosticism and mildly Christian. We lived that headship way when we first got married. Now we are much more of a team. We pretty much arrived at this together over time. So we never had arguments about it. It just slowly changed over time.
My grandfather even tries claiming he's a better cook than my grandmother. He cooked for the military and once burned green bean casserole twice. Instead of baking it for 30 minutes, he broiled it for 30 minutes and couldn't understand why it caught fire. He proceeded to to make it again and did the exact same thing. I feel bad for all the soldiers that are his food.
Lol. My SO. He doesn't want to do anything or be responsible for anything. But he sure wants to have the final say on money matters! (My money). I'm not mad, it is what it is. I guess I'm just waiting for us to grow apart without anger or resentment.
Omg, y’all, some counselors are bad. Umm, yeah?!! My first experience with therapy was in the mid 90s. I was 18 years old, it was my sophomore year of college, and I was madly in love… for the first time. MADLY in love, so I came out to my folks. I wanted them to meet my girlfriend as my girlfriend, not “my friend from college.” So they “made” me go to therapy once a week. At a southern Baptist therapy center. It wasn’t necessarily conversion therapy, but it was damn close. I remember during my first session, the therapist stated how she was uncomfortable sitting so close to me, that I had a very intense gaze, and it made her feel that I was undressing her in my mind. This bitch was in her 60s, I mean, not to be ageist, but WTF?!!
Holy effin shite... How sick do you have to be, to call yourself therapist and shame your "patients"??? How can those people pretend to be fans of Jesus? Argh... I'm so sorry for you...
My first therapist was awful, too. I was 12 and my mom had just tragically passed away, so we did family therapy (myself, my brother, and my dad). My mom died in August, he started dating in November, and by like January or February he told us in family therapy that he was engaged. Our therapist saw nothing wrong with this decision and even encouraged it.
Taylor and Drew communicate so well and with a lot of maturity and insight, there's a lot of mutual trust and respect. Thanks for representing Athiesm marriages so well. 😀
I feel like in a healthy marriage with children there would be no need to choose between the spouse or the children because both spouses would be on the same page about what they need to do to look after their children while balancing their children's specific needs with their own. Having to choose seems to indicate that one or both spouses are competing with the children for the other spouses attention.
And in the case where a spouse is competing with the children for attention...the children are the ones who can not remove themselves from the situation, so their needs should take precedent.
Yes. I agree. I try not to read into body language, but this time, it seems like her body language is screaming. It's hard to know for sure because she could just be an awkward person in front of the camera. But it's the fact that she is so hesitant to speak. She keeps her arms folded tightly against her her chest. When she does talk, it's after caviot and caviot. She just seems so uncomfortable.
That sounds Old Testament. Christians know from Galatians and Hebrews and other New Testament books that we are no longer under the law but under grace. That the sacrifice of Jesus Christ put us under a New Covenant. Many of those rituals for the Israelites of that time had to do with being considered ceremonially clean when you were around the tabernacle and the temples because the curse of the law hadn’t been broken yet, so anyone who sinned would be plagued. Jesus literally paid the price for our sin and rebellion by dying on the cross to give us new and eternal life when we place our faith in him and his finished work by believing the simplicity of the Gospel. So now as Christians, we are living in that fulfilled statement Jesus told to the Samaritan woman that the location of worship wouldn’t matter anymore because we worship in Spirit and in truth, and we have God’s Spirit come to indwell and live inside of us the moment we believe. So now because of what Jesus did, we are no longer seen as filthy, our bodies are considered holy and redeemed. And just as pure as Jesus the man who could touch and heal a leper.
👆 I'm one of the ones who was on the receiving end.. Lori ("mom"😒) would often plainly state that she loved her husband more than any of us.. Relationship is awful, my mental health is awful.. I don't think I'll talk to them again after I get out..
I mean, it might not be by choice, like he just has one or two friends in his life he met through a common interest, etc. It depends on the reason and how he feels about it. Not all flags are instantly red. Some flags are yellow, like "this could be a sign of a negative thing but I need more context/information bedore I decide if it's a red flag, cus it might not be what I kneejerk think it be"
@@tonichan89 true, but I think our definitions of "red flag" are slightly different. I consider a red flag to be an indicator of possible danger, not an indicator of danger itself. One red flag doesn't mean "run," but multiple do.
WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree! As the other person commented there can be exceptions of course, like if he has very few friends it's understandable if there isn't much diversity, but a man who cannot be friends with women is 100% a red flag because it tells you something about how he views women. The reverse works too, I instantly feel more comfortable around men who DO have female friends.
That's silly. My husband never had female friends other than his girl cousins. He has three guy friends who he has known since high school and that's it. He just isn't social. Unless you think having a small social circle is inherently a red flag. Haha .
@@annarocha3254 Of course, we already had a discussion in the comments above regarding how it's understandable if someone doesn't have many friends at all that their friend group may not be very diverse :) It's more about the attitude, if a man thinks women categorically aren't friend material at all, THAT is a red flag.
The "marrying the family" thing is something that's SUPER situational, bc different people have differing degrees of involvement with their family. Every member of my immediate family lives in a different state and don't talk for weeks or more on end sometimes, whereas my grandma visited her twin (they were both married) so often that they moved in next to each other and took the fence down between their houses! In the latter case, my grandpas were both "marrying the family" as well, but that wouldn't really feel accurate for my future spouse.
This part about them forbidding their spouses to have friends of the opposite sex is truly sad. When I grew up, there were several girls in the immediate neighborhood who were more or less my age that I've been friends with. I've always viewed girls/women as being equal to boys/men. I've had a short period of being a Christian myself (in my teenage years) and one of the things that bothered me the most was this segregation of men and women. I guess, it all stems from Christians' unhealthy view on all things sexual - and by extension, assigning a sexual connotation on a whole lot of things that aren't sexual in nature. Genuine friendships between men and women then is just one example among many others. Underlying all of this seems to be the fear that anybody of the opposite sex is an inherent peril by the sheer nature of their chromosomes. I don't know if this is a result of the toxic purity culture or a deep-rooted insecurity. Whatever it may be, I find it ridiculous. I am with my partner because she's the one I want to be with. If I didn't want to be with her, banning contact with the opposite sex wouldn't change this. In the same way, having normal human interactions with other people (including, gasp!, women) won't make me to want to run away from my partner. If this were the case, this would be an indication that there's something wrong in our relationship.
@@michaellemmen literally the friendship lmao if you don't feel secure enough on your marriage that having a friend from the opposite sex (in case you are married to someone of the opposite sex) can put in danger your marriage, that's a YOU problem. If your spouse is your only friend, the only person you can trust and joke around, that's sad.
Mike drop moment: When Taylor says, "I'm bisexual--does that mean I can't have any friends?" on the topic of having friends of the opposite sex. Paul and Morgan forget that the whole world is not straight.
They’re talking a about a Christian relationship tho. That’s what most of their videos are about. So they wouldn’t be giving Christian advice to someone who is part of the LGBTQ community because those people are not part of the Christian community.
Well no, they believe marriage is between a man and a woman and presumably view being bi/gay as invalid and just someone having sinful thoughts or behaviours. Which is disgusting, but not incoherent with anything they said.
I have a lot of male friends. It always bothered me that there seemed to be a narrative in the church that you cannot be around someone of the opposite gender, because you WILL rip their clothes off. Having friends of the opposite gender is fine. Having a friendship that detracts from your relationship is an issue, regardless of gender.
God, I really hope to one day see a video talking about their divorce... because seriously, she's married to someone who's got the red flags all around him! EDIT: I should clarify, I am not so much rooting for their divorce, but I am concerned that this marriage is not healthy, and that Morgan is ultimately the one who is put in a forced subservient position.
I mean… Paul does creep me out a bit but this comment is really cruel. We don’t know what their relationship is like based on a RUclips video. Rooting for their divorce is just gross.
I’d rather hope to see both of them grow into better, more critically-thinking people together (and bring hoards of other questioning/impressionable young couples with them) than go through the pain of a divorce… publicly.
As someone who's parents put each other over their children, it was awful to grow up like that. My family has other issues too, but a lot of them were caused by that. My parents were a family unit and my brother and I were on the outside. My mother was always right, my father would back her up even when she was blatantly wrong, and they would both back each other up even when one was being abusive. If my partner and I ever consider having children, one of the major deciding factors will be whether we feel that we can put our children above each other, and if we aren't able to do that, we won't have children. It is completely unfair to raise a child in that environment.
Not to be rude, but Paul sounded super insecure when talking about how Husbands are supposed to be leaders. Like he just has to be the one in charge. Even when he let's his wife take the lead, it still has to be known that this is an exception and he still has a leader title.
Cause he knows he sucks at this. Morgan is a more likeable person with more experience and more down to earth whether Paul is only booksmart and doesn’t really have much wisdom he claims he has.
@@G.D.G. The Bible never talks about a husband owning his wife. I think you confused history and tradition with the Bible. It might be in some people’s cultures to think this way (which is wrong) but the Bible never says this
My husband I don’t really fight. We discuss. We talk for hours. I just really enjoy talking to him and finding out his thoughts. I suggest having your own friends and hobbies. Be a couple but also have your own lives. Been together for 25 years. I still happydance when he calls me. He brings me a coffee home when he gets home bc he’s knows I love them❤.
When P and M were talking about not having opposite sex friends it made me really sad for them. I have so many wonderful and fulfilling friendships with men and women (and I'm bisexual). My husband has a very close relationship with another woman and it makes me really happy for them! I'm so lucky to be polyamorous, it's made my friendships so much better.
@@07Flash11MRC Ah! I was using voice-to-text and said "platonic," but apparently the device didn't catch the first part. Thank you for recognizing that the vast array of language use includes stuff that we may not have heard before, though :) I do think that "tonic" is most comonly used to refer to the beverage, but I actually usually think of the word first in terms of a medicinal liquid :P
I couldn’t imagine cutting off deep friendships just because I got married. Also bisexual, so I guess I couldn’t have any close individual friends! 😂 Whenever Christians say this, I just feel bad for them that they don’t trust their partners to have friendships that aren’t sexual.
@@josephine4s Interestingly enough both words do have a greek origin, but have very little to do with one another. Tonic very literally means something toned, as back in the day there existed a belief that health was derived from firmly stretched muscles. So multifaceted medicinal origins on this one. Platonic is of course in reference to Plato. He established a philosophy based on the notion that all ideas exist in a sort of pure form apart from the material world. Thus the essence of love would be nonsexual. This was widely ridiculed and sneered at by contemporaries, but I guess it did have merit if we're to base it off of staying power. A strong friendship is the perfect use of that word I feel, regardless of what anyone may think of the philosophical origins.
It’s interesting how sometimes Morgan gets close to being reasonable and making sense then just misses the mark. I feel Paul is the one swaying her off course.
Paul is definitely more of the manipulative narcissist in the relationship, but hopefully he continues to provide some good value for her relationship that she remains comfortable with and increases her self-esteem. Etc.
@@letsomethingshinesorry.. Not gonna happen. If you watch some videos of them... It's bad. He is really really bad. Pretty sure he is the one if the main reasons for her being so emotionally infantile.
Your point on bisexuality at 28:20 got me 😂 that’s all it took for me to understand how ridiculous the notion is about having friends of the opposite sex. Guess being bisexual means I can only hang out with my significant other!
Great video, my relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, Really love her so much, i can’t stop thinking about her. I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated because i literally can't envision my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Your feelings are understandable, It's always difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation when my wife of 12 years left me, i couldn't just let her go. I did all I could to get her back, I had to seek the help of a spiritual adviser who helped me bring her back.
I'm really sorry you're struggling. Try to remember that if she left you, she won't be the love of your life, and you'll find someone who's an even better fit for you eventually. Try getting therapy, relying on supportive friends and family, and building good quality new relationships, volunteer and community roles and hobbies which help you build a new, happy life as a single person. There's many, many people out there who can relate to your pain but have since successfully moved on to be happier than ever.
Regarding the first advice (don't go to bad in anger), I think that is actually very, very important routine to go through, cleansing your mind before sleep, as it were. It's not about solving the issue, it's about letting go of the emotion. Hell, you should even do it when you're single. Whatever troubled you during the day, don't take it into bed with you. If you are upset with your partner, decouple the issue from the emotion. Work the issue during the day, for as many days as it takes, but don't let the negative emotions ruin your sleep.
I disagree you process events during sleep regardless , sleep will bring minds less influence by emotion because to let go of emotion is too express them and time in-between allows for introspection .. what does it mean too decouple the issue from the emotion when the issue cause the emotion sure you can look at it from different perspective but if you don't do that introspection you will have intrusive thoughts when you trying too sleep like if you suddenly remember all embarrassing memories also define cleansing in this context
Why is anger an negative emotion?? Theres plenty of situations that if they was happening and someone wasn't angry bout it would be looked at as wrong response by majority of people.. all emotion are natural parts of being and serve purpose
@@jmarch_503 You raise some interesting points. Anger is not per se a negative emotion. It can be very useful - it can be stimulating, it can energize you and you can use it to drive you into action. But for this, you have to be in control over your anger, you literally have to master your anger. On the other hand, when your anger controls you, when you are not in charge over it, it can be, and often is, destructive, especially when it boils in you for a longer time. How other people react to you not getting angry when they expect you to get angry, well honestly, that doesn't need to be any of your concern. It is up to you, not them, how you react to a situation. In essence, how you react to anything is a choice. Most of the time we are not aware of this, but when we get angry, we actually decided to get angry. It took me years to recognize that I always have the choice. If something annoyed me, getting angry was my go-to reaction. I learned (slowly and with setbacks) that I have other reactions at my disposal or even that not reacting at all is also an option. These days, I try just to wait a few heartbeats before reacting. In many situations I find that not having any emotional response really works quite well. Looking back at my angry days, I find I have enjoyed life much more since I let go of my anger.
Hubby and I are closing in on 18 years married and we never fight or argue but we do have times of not agreeing however we are always respectful and considerate to each other. No yelling no name calling or blaming, mostly expressing our feelings. We are up in age and have both found most arguments/fights are over small things that in the larger scheme of things don’t matter. Coming from me the wife if the kitchen cabinet door isn’t closed doesn’t warrant being upset.
They're depressing as f*ck and I'm sorry for the wife, because she's visibly uncomfortable in a lot of videos and to me it's clear she disagrees with his opinions, but is trapped into a marriage she probably believes she can't get out of. Girl, divorce his narcissistic ass immediately. They did a video on s*x advice and it was desperately sad. I saw a therapist react to it and talk about it. And just wow.
I haven’t watched much of this video yet, but something I already love is how patient and attentive they are when listening to things they don’t agree with. They’re really listening and responding, instead of reacting and putting others down. I love that energy. Great videos ❤️
Ultimately, any marriage advice that assumes your spouse is mature godly is fundamentally flawed and problematic. I regret putting the unity of my couple ahead of the emotional needs of my children. I am often their only advocate and if I don’t have their back when necessary, that is going to hurt them and my relationship with them. Not worth sacrificing that to appease a toxic spouse (no matter what level of toxicity).
It should be said that a lot of people, especially in Christian marriages where women are told they need to obey their husbands in order to please God, avoid conflict due to potential abuse and fear not because they got bad marriage advice.
Sometimes people talk about things and not really know the foundation of it. I was skeptic about it too but now I understand that God designed a marriage to be a team. “Obeying your husband” is not what the Bible says, yes honour one another and the husband should should lay down their life for their wives (that’s not to be taken lightly) and women are to submit (this does not mean to obey anything the husband says but to work together as a team and consult things) since the husband is the one who would protect the family, protect the relationship from harm and that involves knowing what truly is happening in both their marriage and family. 1Corinthians 13 talks about what love should look like. And that doesn’t apply to one or the other but to both. Hope that helps (:
They avoid conflict due to abuse( or fear of being abused) ? How does that work exactly? Plus, Christians are advised to stay in abusive marriages. Having to mindlessly obey is abusive. I really don't get what you are saying.
@@littlebitofhope1489 often times women in domestic violence situations actively work at avoiding any type of conflict with their spouse so they don't anger said spouse and get hurt. So, what I said is exactly what I meant.
@@bangsandbullets Maybe, but you did not say it well. Also meaning what you say does not mean what you say is correct. Being told to obey an abusive husband IS bad advice. They should be telling them to get the hell out. "Obey" is a PART of the abuse. So part of the system of abuse is that bad advice. Domestic Violence doesn't always happen in isolation. There are social, cultural and societal aspects to it.
The don't put your kids before your husband (that whole response was really sexist) was a dog whistle for keep giving sex to your husband after you have kids. Also what about the mom's needs? Why just kids and husband?
It just sounds like they're insecure and paranoid that someone of the opposite sex could "steal" their S/O away. Plus any time your partner is trying to control who you can and can't see/hang out with it's a big red flag.
The husband coming before the kids thing in that dynamic is problematic. I heard the statement all the time growing up and it was an excuse to not properly protect kids. If your husband is the "priority" to the point you are excusing abuse this mentality isn't okay. I do agree you have to work on your relationship and make it a priority. Those priorities are equal though because both are necessary. If the choice is between your spouse and your children's physical/mental well-being, your kids should come first every time.
Children are so young and small they cannot fend for themselves so they should be a priority in a family. When your husband behaves like another child for you to care for then the children aren't getting the care and attention they need. So many women complain that after so many years of marriage they see their husband as just one of the kids they need to take care of when he should be a co-parent.
@@akinamachni5718 My father behaved like an extra child at times. I often heard my mother talking down to him like he was a child as it was the only way she could get through to him. Well at least he could fix himself a sandwich as he went to bed after us all & often was hungry just before he went to bed.
First one: I think, however, saying ‘We’re not going to sort this out tonight, and I need time to process this’ isn’t ’going to bed angry’. Going to bed angry is “You’re a fucking bitch. I’m going to bed.” The first is loving without resolution. You don’t have to sort out all the problems. The second is a real problem
If you're calling your partner nasty names, then that's an issue regardless of whether you're going to bed or not. You can be angry and still be mature about it. "I need time to process this" is something that I find myself stating quite often when I'm angry.
Sometimes people are angry because they are lacking sleep so they should go to bed angry to sleep on it. It's why so many people sleep on decisions & also conflicts.
How Morgan worded the one about the kids, she said she rejects that their "needs" come first, but then did not talk about their needs (by claiming "friendship" is a need?). I do not have any biological children, but I raised my brother (as his guardian), and I think that a child's needs have to come first, unless one's partner's needs are unable to be addressed by them (i.e. a disabled person). Needs should be addressed accordingly to anyone's inability to address said need. Since their baby is only 4 months old, there are no needs that Paul could possibly have that would garner attention over their infant (unless an emergency situation). I respect both of your input on all of their rejection of advices. I really would love both of you to comment on more of their videos, because I feel as former Christians, you offer a bit more nuance to add in, showing that not all Christian values are bad, but there are so many that can be harmful (especially concerning fundamentalists and biblical literalists).
The way I was taught the "You're marrying the family" rhetoric is that when you marry a person, your marriage is just with that person. But through your marriage with them, you are becoming a part of their family. And yes many people do have poor relationships with their family. That's still a part of their life that you are now included in. If I get married and my husband has a strained relationship with a relative, I would support him and his boundaries toward that relative. Because we are a team and they become my boundaries too. The type of relationship he has with his family becomes my relationship with his family and the same goes for him and my family. Idk if that makes sense at all. That's just how I was taught and of course there are going to be exceptions, because ultimately our priority is our partner
The whole "marrying the family" thing, what if that family involves children from a previous relationship? I was 7 when my parents married and my dad adopted me. He knew that it was a package deal and he, at 24 years old, accepted that responsibility. Or in the case of an adult child who is a caregiver for a parent? In certain cases it is important that the spouse know that certain family members are a priority and come with the marriage.
I think there is a difference between anger and disagreement. You can disagree forever, agree to disagree, and still let go of your anger. You don't need to agree about everything to have a happy marriage.
My husband knew when he married me that my family came with the package. My mom is my best friend and we live in the same town. There are healthy boundaries, but if my family and my husband didn’t get along it never would have worked out long term because I would have always been in the middle. I’m so glad my parents love my husband and my husband loves my parents.
I'm close to my mom also. I hate my husband's mother she's a covert narcissist. She's 73 loves an hour away and I don't talk to her or let her visit anymore
Regardless of what they say verbally, their physical language gives me a superficial vibe. Their eye contact, crossed arms, interpreting each other's talking, unhappy facial expression with hidden emotions...Morgan's body language keeps communicating that she is not comfortable and/or disagree with what her husband says yet she is afraid of expressing them verbally. However, our body can not hide.
I have a therapist who happens to be Christian and she even brings in very broad life lessons and examples from bible study, but she does so in a way that allows for them to be interpreted and useful in a completely secular lens. For instance one time she said that right know you are not prepared for every obstacle you encounter in the future-rather, you will be ready when each of those hurdles and challenges happen, so you shouldn’t pressure yourself or place these huge expectations on your present and current self. Super nice advice.
My mom basically did what Morgan mentioned at the end… put all of her time, effort, and energy into her children, but forsook her relationship with my dad. My sister will be leaving the house soon. I hope they don’t divorce.
Many relationships get "forgotten" when kids are around. People get so busy with their jobs and kids that not enough time is spent on the relationship. Many times I don't even think people realize it right away. The day to day grind takes over.
The kids thing is interesting definitely can be an issue for marriages. Many married couples won’t even spend alone time together after they have kids. That means no dates, no trips, nothing just the two of them. That’s when it becomes an issue. Married parents need to be conscious to set aside time for each other and actively work on their relationship. And this isn’t just about relationships parents should have hobbies and outside interests that don’t revolve around their kids a parent is a role you have not your whole identity.
I’ve never commented so often on a video… but the longer I watch Paul and Morgan AS a Christian the more I face-palm. There is so much too detangle in their doctrine that I cannot even… 🤷🏽♀️
You know who else said you need to put your spouse before your kids? Michelle Duggar. And she had 19 kids. That’s why those kids all raised each other. While she was having sweet fellowship with JB.
The only person who I can think of who would say that you shouldn't have any conflict/you should not bring up things you don't like is the transformed wife.
My biggest thing with my boyfriend and I, we don’t go to bed angry exactly, we will say I love you and continue fighting the next day lmao and we also never argue in public, or in front of people, we wait until we’re in the car or at home
I really enjoy listening to you guys discuss these topics. And I think it goes a long way in showing that, while we reject the theism aspect, most people, regardless of faith or lack thereof, have very similar standards in the relationship sphere. Good job!
So, I am really enjoying you and @GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic covering Paul and Morgan’s marriage advice. It’s literally my favorite. My only issue is with Paul and Morgan, I hate hearing both of them use combinations of popular lingo and AAVE. Them trying to be cool is cringe worthy every time 😂
So much of the “wisdom” in that world is based on what’s necessary to keep together at all cost marriages that never should have happened: the kind that started off as two people who were barely legal adults, with very little exploration of self or relationships, getting married quickly because it was the thing to do or because they wanted to have sex. When the foundations of a healthy relationship were never built, or they weren’t ever really a great match for each other, then a lot of things pose actual danger of divorce that wouldn’t be a problem if they had taken their time and married the right person for them in the first place. That friend of the opposite sex does pose a temptation risk when you should not have married your spouse in the first place and you are using friendships as the only outlet for the part of yourself that has never been satisfied in your marriage. Or, if you never really found that closeness before kids, it can be very easy to shift all of your effort into the kids, who you both truly love and adore, as a means of ignoring the deficiencies in the marriage. That’s not to say that it’s impossible to find the right person for you at a young age. It looks like you guys did, and I did the same. But when I look back at the pairings that I saw in my Christian circles back in the day, most didn’t actually seem to tick off the boxes for really fitting well with each other in a way that bode well for the duration, you know? And all too many couples got engaged because they happened to be dating at the age when everyone else was getting engaged. And the thing is, if you are coming from the point of view that divorce is never ok, combined with a marriage between two people who probably would have broken up within the year if they kept just dating instead of getting engaged, then evidence based therapy is a real threat, because it’s going to show them how flimsy their bond is and what actual emotional health looks like. And that probably won’t include staying married. And let’s be honest: how many older church couples did we all know that were almost never seen together outside the church pew? He would spend most of his time at work or in church leadership, she crammed her free time full with organizing Sunday School, potlucks or the women’s Bible Study to avoid being home when he was. Truth is, the secret to their marriages was avoiding each other as much as possible and they needed the husband to be the go-to decision maker in order to avoid having real discussions.
the biggest problem i have with paul and morgan is that they are tryna give marriage advice while they are so young. if you want good marriage advice you ought to go to a couple who's been happily married for a few decades
I'm commenting as I watch, so maybe they will explain that later, but I think Morgan says the first one is weird, because it's based on the Bible actually. She phrases is it as "don't go to sleep angry" but it's referring to Ephesians 4:26 "In your anger do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry". I guess Morgan means that the weird thing is that they disagree with it.
4:57 that is actually good advice: "good night, i love you, we'll figure this out, we're still on the same team." When you're overly tired or when the argument has gone on for too long, you won't be able to solve it in that situation. Sometimes you need to disengage and ground yourself, away from your partner. Which doesn't mean you should hold a grudge against them. Reassurance is a kind thing. You ARE still on the same team! ❤
New subbie. Love your videos. Marrying the family topic is situational. My big Hispanic family is very important to me, it’s almost cultural and I wanted a husband that understood how important my family is to me. I do however understand that toxic family members need to be kept at arms length or cut off all together.
If you marry a person you're marrying their whole family is tricky advice to me at this point. I do think chosen family is important, but people who aren't estranged from their family are very much influenced by them. As a for instance, my ex's mother got divorced before we got married, and then set about having a destructive influence on all of the marriages in the family including ours. Today, my ex's aunt and both of her sisters are divorced as well. That's all of the marriages other than her grandma's second marriage in the entire family. So yeah, be aware of family dynamics when you're marrying someone. PS I'm not saying I didn't contribute to our divorce. Divorces are almost always a two person problem. I'm just saying her abusive father and the bitterness he left in that whole family was a big factor that resulted in my ex being very willing to give up on our relationship as soon as there were issues
"A lot of what they have to say is so surfacey, it's like they're not saying anything." So much this. I was so surprised by how shallow the conversation was between Paul and Morgan, I kept waiting for... you know... actual advice? Some of what they "disagreed" with felt made up, and others felt more like general vague sayings rather than actual advice. Just... not a lot of depth there. Their suggestion to stay away from research-based therapists kind of broke my heart. I wish they realized that just because someone avails themselves of the current knowledge, insight, and research on a topic, that doesn't make it anti-spiritual or bad. What Paul and Morgan represent in this video is what some Christians would call "legalism" - basically, making up a bunch of arbitrary rules that sound good on the surface, and acting like those rules have to be followed if you want to be "good enough." It's a bid for superiority and tbh I think sometimes people use these arbitrary rules to fill in what is missing in their lives... ie, they don't feel great about themselves, so they reach for rules to make themselves feel like they're on top.
I've been watching your channel(s) the past couple weeks and listen with deep interest how you not only found your way out of religious darkness by allowing logic to have a say in your life, but also that you managed to stay together by both finding that same path to travel together. I'm reminded of my favorite quote. It's by Bennett W. Goodspeed: "The difference between a comedy and a tragedy is that in a comedy the characters figure out reality in enough time to do something about it." 🙂I found that freedom from religious BS unraveled all at once (I was at the doorstep for years but never claimed it), and then was swept out from smaller spaces in my psyche in layers over many years. However, the night that the house next door to me burned down I had no thought of an invisible savior for me or my house in my deepest moments of anxiety and action, nor did I worry about needing salvation prior to death, and I knew well and truly that religion was not attached to my psyche at any level. Not even the tiniest inkling. Truly free. I see more and more freedom in your futures. 🙂 X-posted on both your pages....
Are P+M passive-aggressively workin’ thru some of their own shit in this video?? He’s like, “Marryin’ a chick doesn’t mean i’m marryin’ her whole ding-dang family! Amirite bros??” And she’s looking at him like, “Bitch, you made a point of saying that your mom is right upstairs and she gets a say in our RUclips channel!” But then she says, “Verrry interesting, okay.” 😆
From what I've gathered Morgan is very close with her mom and sister so I really do think Paul was being passive aggressive like "I'm married to you, not your mom"
I absolutely _hate_ the idea that the man has to lead in a relationship. My parents are like that. My mom has been disregarded and walked over and she’s proud of it. It’s how she was raised. As a result I was never taught to stand up for myself which led to me being sexually assaulted among other things. I often don’t know how to communicate in a healthy manner either. I’m slowly learning but an entire lifetime of control like that has been so detrimental. My dad probably has no idea he’s controlling. They wonder why I don’t visit.
On advice #2, where there saying there needs to be a leader in a marriage and that egalitarianism is bad; this is a very binary way of looking at things, where you either have a leader OR egalitarianism (and also one is better than the other) My husband and I play to each other’s strengths in the relationship. I take on the day to day tasks like cooking, shopping, & pickups, and he handles the bureaucratic stuff like bill payments, and home & electrical repairs. When it comes to cleaning, he’s better at cleaning in daily small bursts and general cleaning maintenance, whereas I tend to take on the once a week deep cleans. I’m better at planning things out, he’s better at responding to spontaneous issues. And if one of us has more on our plate than the other, we help each other out. If one of us is going through some mental health stuff (yay us both having ADHD & depression), we know that sometimes we do shoulder more of the responsibilities. Egalitarianism isn’t everything 50/50, it’s knowing that sometimes it’s gonna be 80/20, 25/75, etc. I also love to tell people when they ask us for marital advice that we’re not marriage experts. We’re the most knowledgeable about *our* marriage and even then, we aren’t perfect.
There are some genuinely problematic statements that I don't think you fully addressed. Not having opposite gender friends - controlling your partner's friendships is a massive red flag. Relationships are supposed to be about trust and respect. Also, if your partner can't spend time alone with someone without jumping into bed with them or whatever then they need serious therapy for their compulsive uncontrollable behaviour. Head of the household - another red flag and open to abuse. How can one partner ever freely express their opinion if they know that their partner may completely disregard it or even get angry if there's a differing opinion. If one person always gets their way in any disagreements, that creates a massive power imbalance. Husband > kids - sort of relates to the last one, it's not healthy to put one person on a pedestal like that. Also, this implies that if the husband was harming the kids in some way (maybe minor like not helping them with something up to actual abuse) then she would side with her husband and not help the kids. There also seems to be this assumption that he won't be doing any of the parenting (and because he's in charge, she can't do anything about it) - no wonder she's so stressed out with their 4 month old! They also have this weird idea that the kids will suddenly disappear from their lives at 18. Just because legally they're adults, doesn't mean that they stop needing their parents. It's also really common nowadays for kids to live at home well into their 20s. Also, if both parents are parenting properly, then they'll be working together and can actually make time for themselves separately or with their kids. There are also babysitters if you want to go out without the kids. I'm not saying that their relationship is abusive, but it's definitely got some unhealthy tendencies that increase the likelihood of abuse (particularly from him). We don't want to return to a time where the head of the household can beat his wife without consequence, because he's "in charge" and can therefore decide if his wife "deserves it". Can we promote healthy loving relationships of all varieties instead?
Fascinating. My feeling on advice in general is you have to own it and decide if this is applicable/works for you and your situation, and you also need to understand whats behind the advice (not just the snappy sentance). Even in therapy situations there is no 'one true way' and there has to be nuance and because a particular method has a high success rate, it doesn't mean it will be right for YOU. The don't prioritize your children at the expense of your spouse is a good example. It's not terrible advice, its way too easy as a parent to be overwhelmed and not make time for each other and grow apart. The child though is utterly dependent on you. So you have to decide what's really important and find a balance and sometimes yes that means totally focussing on the child. But, you can still do that together, supporting each other. As I've got older, through a divorce and a kid growing up, my views on relationships have changed. Now I much more think of three entities in the marriage, me, them and us. Sometimes its important to prioritise ourselves and a loving partner will be behind that (in the end they get a better you to be with). Sometimes we will make decisions that go against what would be best for me/them but are better for us. I never go away, they never go away, there is just a different thing to be considered which is 'us'.
Even though I am a Christian and don't agree with your beliefs, I just have to say I really appreciate how you both went about this video and that you weren't mean and cruel with the differences we both share in our beliefs. Very rare to see so thank you both for just being real but saying your differences with kindness at the same time. 🙂👍🏻
Regarding the opposite sex friendships, I feel the Evangelical Christianity represses mens' emotional autonomy as much as it represses womens' bodily autonomy. Most boys raised in those religions are taught to suppress how they feel + objective women = have no idea how to connect with their own emotions (let alone a woman's), so they conclude positive feelings towards a woman is automatically romantic. Which then perpetuates the cycle of misery for all involved
It seems to me that Paul and Morgan are doing what most Christians do. They mold their Christianity to fit their own needs wherever they think is works best for them. Secular couples work out their own needs in their marriage regardless of what the Bible says.
When I was a Christian as a child (against my fucking will because of course it was) all I knew was that women were treated less than, and I wanted to prove to people that women were and could be everything. I’m a man, but I could never understand it. The way they spoke about my sisters/mother was disgusting.
Hello! I am a school counselor and working on my LPC (licensed professional counselor). I also have faith that aligns with some things in Christianity. I would never ever push any of my beliefs onto another person. We have this thing called nonmalificence, which means do no harm. Super important!!! Also don't reject counseling as a whole, bc we have studied for years (masters degrees are required in the counseling field, at least in PA) and our studies are backed by science (thanks Morgan and Paul😒 lol).
Morgan was definitely talking about sexual availability when she was talking about not neglecting your husband's needs just cause you have children. I know, because i was still a christian when i became a mom. And all the women were whispering to me, "just don't neglect your husband, make sure he doesn't feel left out or forgotten. Make sure his needs are met too." And they all meant sexually. Because unfortunately men's sexual needs are placed on this ridiculous pedestal in christian marriages. They all made it super clear, especially when they found out i was a nursing mom. One of the women who was in the lead ministry actually asked my husband if he was "okay with having to share me with the baby". Kid you not. It is a vile mindset that is drilled into young moms, that you cannot neglect your husband's "needs" just cause the baby is born. Like i was shocked how much they hounded me about it. I was 5 weeks postpartum, and these women are insinuating that i must give my husband sex in order that he doesn't feel neglected. It's such a sick mindset, and I'm so glad I'm not in that religion anymore
And it's really distressing to see this mindset still being pushed, but in a much sinister way. As if it's not gonna be blatantly obvious considering the men aren't being hounded about "neglecting your wife's needs" once the baby is born. In fact some of the men were telling my husband "hang in there buddy, it's hell but you can get through it." And it was just about not having sex after i gave birth to a living fking human being. And was nursing that tiny human with my body too. Ugh. I hate that so much for any woman in the church.
Yeah, not to mention that some women take longer to recover from birth than 5-6 weeks and/or have a traumatic experience from birth and/or post partum depression. I know some argue: ,,If she really loved her husband, she would do it anyway." And to that I could I say: ,,If he really loved his wife, he would care about her mental and physical recovery first and foremost and would never force her, manipulate her or guilt trip her into sex." Or: "If he loved, he would want her to enjoy sex too." Words like duty and/or obligation in my opinion should never be used together with sex. It creates the weird and creepy idea that you don´t have a say in the matter, that your own feelings are unimportant or that you don´t own your own body, but is just a piece of flash to satisfy your husband/partner.
To be a little more than fair, you run into things like that in the secular world as well. Some of it is real though. It's extremely common for new Mother's to kind of move their husband out of the way.
There's one guy that I know whose wife actually moved him out of the master bedroom while he was at work so that she could move the nursery in next to her. They finally got counseling but she would barely let him hold his son for the first several months. With postpartum depression and all of the other things that women can go through after childbirth, sometimes it's just a struggle.
But in a relationship people do have a responsibility to each other. Sometimes they forget that they need to be understanding.
@@jarodstrain8905 That's not what I'm talking about. While new mothers will prioritize their newborns needs because the baby unlike a grown man, cannot help itself. It literally relies on the mother for everything. I'm not talking about the more extreme cases of mothers neglecting their partner. I'm talking about weaponized incompetence, where the grown husband will act like he isn't capable of allowing the new baby to get more attention, because it's a baby. Also the whole thing about women taking over and not letting her husband do anything most likely stemmed from weaponized incompetence on behalf of her husband. I cannot count how many new fathers would gripe about changing diapers, getting up to feed the baby so mom can get some much needed sleep. Also I'm specifically speaking about Morgan and the ideological mindset she has towards "serving" her husband. The other cases you are speaking about have nothing to do with this specific lifestyle Morgan preaches. Also like you pointed out, people have a responsibility to each other, that includes the husband being understanding that his wife has a bigger priority at the moment, and he needs to take into consideration her post partum needs and adapt. It's sounds like you are just siding with the men and acting like women need to do all the damn compromising. 🙄
beat his meat for Jesus.
@@jarodstrain8905that’s nowhere near being the same thing 🙄
I do actually agree with the you're not marrying their family part. I've had multiple dates where I was told having a poor relationship with my family was a "red flag." I would argue wanting abusers, traffickers, people who hurt others with no remorse, etc... to stay in your life is a much larger red flag. I come with a dog. That's about it.
I remember a popular sit com on the BBC called Gavin & Stacey. It's not just about the couple themselves but their families as well who come together and all of them meet up for Christmas and visits in the summer. So when they decide to have Christmas with Gavin's parents in Essex Stacey's mother and uncle come up too. Likewise when they decide to have Christmas in Barry in South Wales Gavin's parents are also invited. Not only that Stacey's best friend Nessa comes to & also Gavin's best friend Smithy. Nessa & Smithy have a one night stand when they all first meet & Nessa accidentally becomes pregnant from it so Nessa & Smithy co-parent which brings them back together. Nessa & Smithy are played by the two actors who write the series.
Wow people actually say it's a red flag? That's horrible! But you've got your dog and dogs are always family so it looks like you get along really well with your family after all!
I had similar feelings. I think of my sister and her boyfriend. He’s always with us for holidays and such because he’s on bad terms with his family and our family is pretty great. It all honestly depends.
Does the dog act funny around the person when you're dating someone?
@@bigtombowski I know my pet cockatiel did. She was very tame but she took a few hours to get to know visitors. She would observe them & if she liked them she would get too friendly with them. But she didn't like four of them. One of them was the project manager responsible for my bathroom & kitchen refurbishments. She only had an admin & marketing background in construction so had never been an electrician, plumber, tiler or carpenter before so didn't know what she was doing on a practical level.
I get major narcissist vibes from that guy. Even when she disagrees, she has to tiptoe around disagreeing to make it sounds like she agrees. Her laughter seems like a coping mechanism to hide her feelings of ick for his weird behavior.
100%. I try to not judge other people but it's hard to ignore those feelings
That's typical for Christian culture. He's an asshole man child that wants control and credit and she's acting even dumber than she is.
The laughter felt very much like a deflection and/or coping mechanism for sure. I used to do that a lot when I was younger and Christian. It felt safer to ease men’s feelings by laughter.
I usually have just the opposite impression of Paul and Morgan.
I get the vibe that Paul is basically a beck and call boy and Morgan does the little act to make it seem like he's in charge.
You don't notice it as much in some videos, but in many, Paul is clearly one of those guys that followed some girl around in highschool like a puppy while she dated someone else.
100% agree.
When I was hard core Christian I’d go to conferences and one of the speakers gave this scenario where you your spouse and your three children go overboard a ship. Your youngest can’t swim. They implied the Godly thing would be to swim first to your spouse and ensure their survival because YOU CAN HAVE MORE KIDS and the marriage is most important. I’m not even a parent now at 31, but if my spouse let our child drown for my sake I’d be serving divorce papers.
I don’t understand why people can’t see that presenting bizarre hypothetical scenarios/tragedies like this is just weird and deranged.
I think some of this is these pastors honestly taking the Bible too literally. Fair chunks of the Old Testament have a theme of preserving life. In the past, when children usually died young, an attitude of putting adults over children was adaptive. Many of your children would not live into the double digits so many cultures had this idea of kids not being fully human or not yet having a soul until they had survived out of young childhood. In those cases, saving the mother and older children was the correct thing to do because the mother was a full human with a soul and the older kids were full humans while the little ones are still partially in Heaven. Now that most children survive infancy and childhood it's absolutely unthinkable. The idea of "preserving life" has gone to a level that is very different from the original interpretation. And I think that's good. Parents can sacrifice themselves for their kids and have hope the kids will still be cared for well.
Yes! The whole "kids or partner" discussion is so weird. Like yes, of course it's usually beneficial for the mental health and development of your children when you and your partner are engaging in a friendship and a healthy communicating relationship. But if e.g. your partner was abusive, you wouldn't stay with your partner and damage your children, you would take your kiddies and get the fuck out of there
Like, right?
It's not biblical, either. This is a situation where you leave the 99 to take care of the 1. Children depend entirely on their parents while your spouse is an adult and must be expected to take care of himself.
So much for the pro life people
Maybe it's just a RUclips thing, like performing for the camera, but they are the perfect representation of the "inauthentic Christian" personality that I constantly feel with Christian people in their 20s. It's like this very specific type of social performance where you don't feel like they are allowed to just exist, so they are always being a kind of character -- like they're playing a role.
Anyone else get that?
I definitely do get that vibe from them as well. It feels very… fake, like their mannerisms, shows of affection, even some of their beliefs feel like they’re trying to cover for something. It’s all very exaggerated and feels inauthentic. Like you said, it feels like they’re just playing a character and that they’re not being themselves
to me they always seem as if they're high? they act like me after a sleep deprived caffeine crash
@@kai_maceration yeah. Morgan especially with those weird moves and facial shifts. If both or one of them were high, it would make the whole thing even more disturbing
@@hojosconsal9913 I just mean the voice they talk in and how they're constantly joking around, I don't want to get into analyzing their body language I don't really buy into that personally
@@kai_maceration agree. Body lenguage stuff is usually just a bunch of nonsense. But she does give a weird vibe and our subconscious is able to somewhat detect weird patterns
Thanks for covering these people, we need more awareness. Paul disturbs me the way he thinks "interracial marriage" is woke 😳
Psst…Paul’ a bigot who uses his brand of religion to justify his views.
@@jenniferfriesen7691 yep can definitely tell
OMG wtf
Oh wow! Thats disturbing!!
@@susanatkinson3978 yeah it was on a live that's been deleted but Fundie Fridays had a breakdown of them and has the clip. I just can't 😩
His air quotes around "scholars" is one of the most dangerous attitudes of modern evangelicals. Even all of the dehumanizing, horrible positions that many evangelicals take at their root are enabled by this attitude that grants them the freedom to take the Bible literally over what factually gets the best results. They're literally saying "I know this looks like a bad choice, but I'm making it anyway because God says".
It's worse when they refer to educated people as 'elites" as if that was a bad thing
Her awkward relationship with "psychology or whatever haha" is also a bad attitude, psychology relies on statistical studies that aren't just "or whatever".
Well when u think about it. Im not surprised they see it as literal, anything else is "lukewarm". Gosh it was hard being in it frrl
@Marissa Cole There are many, many examples I could cite, but in the case of this video in particular it's the rejection of egalitarian marriage structure in favor of Biblical marriage. I, personally, don't actually know what the research says on the matter. That's not the point. The point is they're saying they're going with the Biblical definition of marriage structure whether or not the research agrees. In fact, that segment of the video seems to suggest they know the research says otherwise.
But the classic example is gay conversion therapy. It's well and thoroughly documented that conversion therapy rarely if ever works and does significant harm to the majority of participants. Yet we have evangelicals up to and including our elected legislators advocating for it because the Bible, by their interpretation, says homosexuality is evil.
The "Christian therapy" industry is yet another example. There's no issue with therapists who are Christian and who incorporate Christian ideas into their therapy where it makes sense and where it's clear their patients welcome it. But much of the Christian therapy world is unaccredited and favors Biblical concepts over tested, fact-based approaches to therapy. Some of the bigger programs have no basis in rigorous research whatsoever.
Abstinance only and anti-contraception positions are another great example. We have mountains of evidence that one of the most effective ways to decrease teen unwanted pregnancies and STD transmission, including AIDS, is robust sex education and the availability of contraception (for STD's specifically barrier based contraception). But there are these movements that go so far as to withhold international aid when certain US administrations are in power if the programs receiving that aid promote contraception use or teach anything other than abstinance only sex ed.
The most hilarious and absurd thing to me about most Christians that they deny science, but accept that the Bible is translated by humans, but they don't take the science as more accurate than the human translated texts. Science is nothing but a method of evaluating and understanding reality. If you believe truly that a god created all of reality and everything in it, then why wouldn't you take into consideration reality and the study of it at all? When I was still indoctrinated, this always confused me. I would ask all the time why God would create reality in a way that conflicts with the written teachings and purposefully deceives us. Would it be much easier for humans to corrupt a written text than for god to allow his entire creation to be messed with and twisted?
I had massive arguments with my fundamentalist family when I discovered the existence of intersex people. I was so excited because, as someone who's been gender non-conforming for my entire life, I was ecstatic to believe that God made people neither strictly male or female, and that in betweens existed clearly within his design for us. I told my homophobic, transphobic family that we must have interpreted something incorrectly, Not even that the texts were incorrect, just that we had misinterpreted something, as We believed that god created humanity, and humans clearly were not resigned to a strict binary thus God could not impose strictly binary gender roles onto a group of beings without strictly binary sexes and genders. I was scolded and told that Satan probably created intersex people because their parents sinned or that intersex people were a myth made up by secular people and the devil to leave people away from God's design for us, and that to even question the gender binary was blasphemy.
To this day, I'm really thankful for that interaction. That was the day I realized that none of these people actually believed in an all-just creator of the universe and everything in it. No matter what any God had to say, they were going to believe what they wanted to believe, and they were only using the authority of a made-up god to spread their insane and hateful beliefs.
Us poor bisexuals out here friendless 💔
#truth
real.
true .
I actually am.
bisexual women are 100% allowed to hang out with same gender
Also, I would like to address the notion that divorce is the worst outcome in marriage. Very often, it is better for everyone. I would say ruling out divorce is the advice I disagree with the absolute most. If I didn’t have that mentality, my marriage would have ended quickly, which might have been very beneficial.
Very good point.
Agree. I live in Denmark and we have high rates of divorce. Since we are a secular people it's not taboo or viewed negatively. It just is. Break ups from a relationships is not a fun experience but not because of a piece of paper. In the 4 countries I've lived in the guilt and shame of divorce is very much cultural and mostly based on religious beliefs.
@@charisma-hornum-fries Fine if you don't have children. However, divorce, deeply impacts children most of the time. It's very destabilizing emotionally (also, often economically for the family). No-one likes to acknowledge that though b/c it really comes down to the adult's decisions. The child usually has zero say in the breakup of their family and in the two people they love and depend on the most. Say what you will about how children are resilient, etc., but I've seen too many affected by divorce...and not in positive ways.
@@kristinab1078 but it's not all sweet from the other side either. My parents stayed together but they shouldn't have. Majority of my childhood I remember them having screaming arguments almost every night. They were trying to poison us, the kids, against the other one. I was praying that they divorce. They never did and still suffer with each other even tho everyone would have been thousand times better off if they separated.
@@barborajureckova8172 I do get where you’re coming from with this, I was in a similar situation when I was a child, but divorce itself can be fairly traumatic to a child. Child psychology essentially demands stability in a child’s life for them to grow up mentally healthy and life-changing sudden shifts (ie divorce) can be a traumatic experience. It’s unfortunately bad on both ends. I don’t think high divorce rates are necessarily good but I also don’t think people need to stay stuck in unhappy or even abusive marriages just for the sake of the kids. I don’t think divorce should be in any way stigmatized as it is just separation (with extra legal hoops and paperwork) but as in all relationships, splitting should be the last resort. Divorce should be treated the same way imo, especially if you have children together. My only exceptions would be if the partner or children are in immediate danger of domestic violence and/or are actively being abused (physically, emotionally, mentally, sexually) cuz in those cases, your safety is much more important in these situations
I'm bisexual and realized later on in life that I've been had crushes on most of my close friends. Several of those friends are now married, I've stood up at their weddings, and I've been open about having crushes on them in the past. It's never been an issue for them or their spouses because they've never been interested in me like that and I completely accept that and still want them and their spouses in my life. Like excuse me for wanting to surround myself with intelligent, charming, beautiful people lol
thank you, thank you....
I mean, that’s great that this works for you, but idk I think some people have all or nothing prospective taking over them.(I have this problem to some extent tbh)
@@BaranKamali-dx4fj Yeah I think that's a perspective that the majority of people share. I just also think it's worth considering why you feel that way and that some of us feel very differently. Most of my friends are also queer, and this is just what's normal for our friend group.
I just think it's a shame that some people will meet someone they really admire and then decide they have to stop talking to that person because either they're in a relationshup or the other person is in a relationship or just doesn't reciprocate. And I don't like the implication that finding someone attractive means you won't be able to control yourself around them. It's possible to meet someone you're attracted to and decide to just pursue friendship because you think they're super cool as a person
@@stellablake6200 yeah I agree. But most people (including me) can’t handle complex situations tbh I don’t think many even want to.I believe it’ll get so much better with confrontation.But I really think it depends on where you are in life and how much mature you’re.
Yes there is no one size fits all approach to relationships (either romantic or platonic)! I was once in love with someone in my friend group but I was happy to see him in a great relationship with his girlfriend. Yeah it hurt that he didn't feel that way about me but the love and joy I experienced from his friendship far exceeded the hurt. I know that's not necessarily the case for everyone though.
You'll never be able to convince me that these two don't absolutely loathe each other deep down.
It's the obvious sub- text
Ugh it’s so true. I mean, she puked during their wedding ceremony. Girl, your body was trying to tell you something.
I see it too. Morgan wouldn't pull paul out of a burning car and Paul will never stop bringing up the fact that she slept with like one person before him, because he's still mad about it. They are pathetic.
Because you don't like their values and the way they decided their mariage would be ?
@@dodleymortune8422 it's more like reading their body language...
Paul and Morgan have NO chemistry together. It’s so weird. It’s like they just met 5 minutes before the camera started rolling. Paul talks to her like she’s a child and she follows it. For a married couple, there’s nothing between them.
I'm no therapist, but I don't know why Morgan doesn't speak as much as Paul. Paul seems to treat their program as an excuse to lecture us and Morgan on how HE interprets Biblical passages. He doesn't seem to even need her there.
As a parent, I 100% put my children ahead of my partner. And he does the same. We're adults. We can take care of ourselves. Our kids can't take care of themselves yet. Most of my day goes into taking care of them. But that doesn't mean my relationship is neglected. You do need to find time to keep your relationship strong. But the children need to come first. Usually when I hear Christians talk about putting their spouse first, it's used as a way to justify neglect and abuse. And it often does mean the woman is expected to take care of the man on demand, ignoring the children if it interferes with meeting his "needs."
I agree. It's a product of guilting a woman into having more kids than she can handle and not expecting any actual parenting effort from the man. So naturally the woman is in constant crisis mode and she has to be told its ok to neglect her kids to service her husband. While the couple is told to actively ignore any needs the woman might have.
When women are free to choose family size, men are expected to be active parents and the needs of women are treated equally to their husband's, carving out enough time for a relationship to flourish is a natural part of family life that is the responsibility of both people. Noone's needs go unmet chronically.
You have to figure out how to bond out of child rearing i guess.. something my parents never did and even have the audacity to subtly resent me and my siblings for their own incapablity to be able to do that..
This bothered me so much, this gender imbalance in the way Paul and Morgan addressed this bit. It's like the fathers aren't even expected to care for either the children or the wife, so they don't need to even think about one needs to be prioritized over the other. I mean, Paul obviously hadn't given it any thought until Morgan brought it up.
I agree entirely with this as a Christain. I think as long as the children aren’t old enough to fend for themselves it’s my job to do it
And the "needs" are almost always implied to be about sex
The no friends of the opposite sex/no alone time with those of opposite sex hits hard with me. I have lost pretty much all my male identifying friends after marriage, a scary number of whom literally said to me my wife doesn't want me to spend time with you anymore. I had no interest in dating, marrying, or having sex with any of these people. They were FRIENDS who, from my perspective, I lost due to jealous, insecure wives. I seriously do not get why people are so into this idea.
I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but people only have so much willpower. The fewer opportunities people have to cheat the less likely it is that they will. There's no way for your friends' wives no know you're not interested. I'm not even religious, but I'm sympathetic to wanting to reduce the odds of your partner cheating. But this also seems like an increasingly futile endeavor.
@@isbalella I hope people are with partners who know how to see others as just friends and remain true to their commitments. I don’t think adult mature people are like incapable of knowing and navigating their feelings. Idk, if it’s hard for someone to not have different romantic/sexual connections with others, then they are maybe poly..? Or like should explore that!
Idk, I’m jus like… get in a relationship understanding who are you are as an individual and communicate your needs and boundaries.
@@isbalella If someone wants to cheat, they will no matter if you control their every move. Probably more likely to do so if you do. And a person who will not cheat will not cheat no matter how many people will be in their periphery. You can not control whether someone cheats on you. Only what you do if they do. They can't hide it forever. You WILL know if they do.
It doesn't matter how many men might be in my general vicinity, doesn't matter what they look or act like. I love my partner. And I ain't interested in anyone else. My partner has many female friends, more than male. I am very comfortable with that and he tells me about them often. I think it's very positive that he has female friends. These are women he respects, cares for, wants the best for with no interest to get into their pants. Because why would he? He respects people equally no matter what's in their pants. Like a reasonable adult.
I feel like some people out there are just horny and will f*ck whatever moves. And that's not who you should be marrying. If that's your partner, they don't love you and you're wasting time. You should want them to cheat on you because then you can leave knowing they are a pos. I've never understood the mentality to force a person to be faithful to you. Is that faithfulness? Not to me.
@@TheHestya I feel like there's room for nuance here. It's not just as simple as "pick better and you won't be cheated on." I believe there are people who absolutely will not cheat under any circumstance just as much as I know there are people who will do everything in their power to cheat. But I think many people lie somewhere in the middle, where their odds of cheating will vary based on desire to do so, opportunities, etc. I mean otherwise it wouldn't be the case that something like half of all people experience infideltity. So I think the realistic thing to do is to create guardrails/boundaries accordingly. For example, I don't have a problem with my partner having friends of the opposite sex but it's not appropriate for them to hang out in private. That leaves far less room for one thing leading to another. I for one don't believe anyone including myself is infallible, so I create boundaries accordingly. Sometimes it's not about whether you want to or not, it's about not setting yourself up to fail. And if you have absolute faith in your partner and want to create your boundaries based on that, then that's great for you. I do think it's extreme for partners to not "let" each other have friends of the opposite sex.
I don't look at it the same way at all. I think if you love someone, you can't do that to them. And having someone available for f*cking will not change that. You either respect your partner or you don't.
Is a person a good partner if the only reason they're not cheating on you is because they don't have someone near them to do it with? Or does the fact they would if they had the opportunity make them a pos already? I'd prefer to know and be able to leave and move on with my life earlier rather than later tbh.
I've been in a committed relationship for 23 years. We're not married. We've been happy together for 23 years. We don't have kids. I certainly wouldn't get my relationship advice from these two!
Makes me happy to hear! Hope you and ur partner are doing well. If you’re able, do you have any tips for other people in long-term relationships?
@@grace-4072 My partner and I are wildlife biologists and we've traveled the country doing research projects together in the great outdoors. Having mutual interests really sustains a couple over the long haul. We behave as equals and find real help in each other's strengths. She is good at many things that I am not, and so I learn from her. I imagine the opposite is true as well. Communication is of the essence, respectful, honest communication. We've always asked ourselves one question: Is the relationship healthy/edifying? We fundamentally respect one another and give each other room to change. Over decades of life, change is inevitable, but it can be exhilarating to reach new places together, even if it seems scary at first. Sex is important but not the most important thing. We're moderate in our sexuality I would say, but there's an intimacy to it that adds a nice dimension to our relationship. We laugh together all the time and make up goofy songs as we travel and try to remain young and playful as we age. Listen. Listen. Listen. We all need to be better at hearing what the other person is trying to say. Cultivate a safe harbor for your partner so that they can feel comfortable in revealing who they are and who they want to become. I'm lucky. I came from an abusive, dysfunctional evangelical household and am estranged from much of my family because I left the faith. I was in a lot of pain in my mid-20's and could easily see that relationships could potentially be very difficult for me. But I met this woman who felt like "home" in the good way, in the way I never had when I was a child. When that happens, don't take it for granted. Be grateful for a partnership and tell them so. Anyway, just some thoughts...hope you're well, too!
Married 30 years. I don't need advice from these children.
@@scottstollery2191 This is so beautiful to read! My partner and I have been together for 12 years and so much of what you said rings true and familiar. Wishing you another amazing 23+ years!
For the person who asked for advice, if you want another (fairly similar, lol) perspective - be silly together, do as much as you can to support the other person's interests/hobbies, maintain some separate interests/hobbies/friends/etc, learn to communicate with each other without getting too angry, learn to apologize and mean it and do better, keep growing both as your own person and in trying to be a better partner.. I could go on. My biggest piece of advice is to recognize - not just say it but actually really feel it and remind yourself of it - that every day you spend with this person is a choice for both of you. Don't take them for granted. Say thank you and remind them of things you love about them. You are choosing every day to be with them and they are choosing to be with you.
@@azuradawn5683 Thank you for saying so and for your insightful effort in adding to the list. When I was writing my comment, I felt as though I were writing these things to her. A thank you note as it were. I'm sure you were doing the same. No doubt about it, long term relationships will have difficulties, but many amazing, unexpected things can grow from it as well. I'm wishing you and your partner the same! Take care!
Who among us (who has ever been in a male headship household) has heard the male head say, “absolutely! You’re better at this than me, please take charge!” Because….I certainly never did.
The discussion of this entire point is also so cringey because it's basically P: men are the leaders M: yeah but sometimes women still get to decide things and have agency P: yeah sure, when I allow it but I'm still the Boss.
Ewewewew. Like you can see how she isn't really on board with this and how he makes sure to assert his dominance or whatever.
My husband and I were very deep in the fundamental Christian lifestyle when we got married. I am now non-religious and he is kind of on the fence of agnosticism and mildly Christian. We lived that headship way when we first got married. Now we are much more of a team. We pretty much arrived at this together over time. So we never had arguments about it. It just slowly changed over time.
I did
My grandfather even tries claiming he's a better cook than my grandmother. He cooked for the military and once burned green bean casserole twice. Instead of baking it for 30 minutes, he broiled it for 30 minutes and couldn't understand why it caught fire. He proceeded to to make it again and did the exact same thing. I feel bad for all the soldiers that are his food.
Lol. My SO. He doesn't want to do anything or be responsible for anything. But he sure wants to have the final say on money matters! (My money). I'm not mad, it is what it is. I guess I'm just waiting for us to grow apart without anger or resentment.
Omg, y’all, some counselors are bad. Umm, yeah?!! My first experience with therapy was in the mid 90s. I was 18 years old, it was my sophomore year of college, and I was madly in love… for the first time. MADLY in love, so I came out to my folks. I wanted them to meet my girlfriend as my girlfriend, not “my friend from college.” So they “made” me go to therapy once a week. At a southern Baptist therapy center. It wasn’t necessarily conversion therapy, but it was damn close. I remember during my first session, the therapist stated how she was uncomfortable sitting so close to me, that I had a very intense gaze, and it made her feel that I was undressing her in my mind. This bitch was in her 60s, I mean, not to be ageist, but WTF?!!
eeessh!b
Jesus, that's ridiculous.
Holy effin shite... How sick do you have to be, to call yourself therapist and shame your "patients"???
How can those people pretend to be fans of Jesus? Argh... I'm so sorry for you...
She wished
My first therapist was awful, too. I was 12 and my mom had just tragically passed away, so we did family therapy (myself, my brother, and my dad). My mom died in August, he started dating in November, and by like January or February he told us in family therapy that he was engaged. Our therapist saw nothing wrong with this decision and even encouraged it.
Taylor and Drew communicate so well and with a lot of maturity and insight, there's a lot of mutual trust and respect. Thanks for representing Athiesm marriages so well. 😀
I feel like in a healthy marriage with children there would be no need to choose between the spouse or the children because both spouses would be on the same page about what they need to do to look after their children while balancing their children's specific needs with their own. Having to choose seems to indicate that one or both spouses are competing with the children for the other spouses attention.
And in the case where a spouse is competing with the children for attention...the children are the ones who can not remove themselves from the situation, so their needs should take precedent.
Exactly
Men are jealous of their own children
@@sarahrobertson634 it's quite pathetic, right? But Paul feels like one of those men who get jealous of their children.
Anyone else a little bit distracted by Morgan’s body language? I hope she’s ok because I am not convinced she’s super comfortable in that marriage.
Hubby seems overly arrogant and possessive. This relationship seems one sided and I feel some concern for Morgan.
Yes. I agree. I try not to read into body language, but this time, it seems like her body language is screaming. It's hard to know for sure because she could just be an awkward person in front of the camera.
But it's the fact that she is so hesitant to speak. She keeps her arms folded tightly against her her chest. When she does talk, it's after caviot and caviot. She just seems so uncomfortable.
You're not the only one who thinks that
You all came here with a bad view on christians mariage principles, so you just read on them what you already decided in your minds. Nothing special.
I’m assuming that Morgan lives in a tent in the backyard during “her time of the month “
😭😭😂😂
It's biblical
👹 it’s always the pussies that are afraid of the blood 🩸
That sounds Old Testament. Christians know from Galatians and Hebrews and other New Testament books that we are no longer under the law but under grace. That the sacrifice of Jesus Christ put us under a New Covenant. Many of those rituals for the Israelites of that time had to do with being considered ceremonially clean when you were around the tabernacle and the temples because the curse of the law hadn’t been broken yet, so anyone who sinned would be plagued. Jesus literally paid the price for our sin and rebellion by dying on the cross to give us new and eternal life when we place our faith in him and his finished work by believing the simplicity of the Gospel. So now as Christians, we are living in that fulfilled statement Jesus told to the Samaritan woman that the location of worship wouldn’t matter anymore because we worship in Spirit and in truth, and we have God’s Spirit come to indwell and live inside of us the moment we believe. So now because of what Jesus did, we are no longer seen as filthy, our bodies are considered holy and redeemed. And just as pure as Jesus the man who could touch and heal a leper.
@@brandynnolen921 ohhh the little krischun that could.
If you can't put your kids before your fully grown adult spouse; Don't have kids. It's hell being on the receiving end of a childhood like that.
👆
I'm one of the ones who was on the receiving end..
Lori ("mom"😒) would often plainly state that she loved her husband more than any of us.. Relationship is awful, my mental health is awful.. I don't think I'll talk to them again after I get out..
I have a similar story, but it was my mom and her father that banned her from the house using a gun, so it's even worse
Yup, can't second that loud enough. Hellish indeed...
If you ask me, a guy who doesn't have any female friends is a red flag
I mean, it might not be by choice, like he just has one or two friends in his life he met through a common interest, etc. It depends on the reason and how he feels about it. Not all flags are instantly red. Some flags are yellow, like "this could be a sign of a negative thing but I need more context/information bedore I decide if it's a red flag, cus it might not be what I kneejerk think it be"
@@tonichan89 true, but I think our definitions of "red flag" are slightly different. I consider a red flag to be an indicator of possible danger, not an indicator of danger itself. One red flag doesn't mean "run," but multiple do.
WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree! As the other person commented there can be exceptions of course, like if he has very few friends it's understandable if there isn't much diversity, but a man who cannot be friends with women is 100% a red flag because it tells you something about how he views women. The reverse works too, I instantly feel more comfortable around men who DO have female friends.
That's silly. My husband never had female friends other than his girl cousins. He has three guy friends who he has known since high school and that's it. He just isn't social. Unless you think having a small social circle is inherently a red flag. Haha .
@@annarocha3254 Of course, we already had a discussion in the comments above regarding how it's understandable if someone doesn't have many friends at all that their friend group may not be very diverse :) It's more about the attitude, if a man thinks women categorically aren't friend material at all, THAT is a red flag.
Real communication can only occur between equals. After 30 years of marriage to a strong woman, I feel like I have a leg to stand on here.
Oh wow. Thanks for that. That was 'a moment' for me 🤯
The "marrying the family" thing is something that's SUPER situational, bc different people have differing degrees of involvement with their family. Every member of my immediate family lives in a different state and don't talk for weeks or more on end sometimes, whereas my grandma visited her twin (they were both married) so often that they moved in next to each other and took the fence down between their houses! In the latter case, my grandpas were both "marrying the family" as well, but that wouldn't really feel accurate for my future spouse.
Yes! I was looking for this comment!
This part about them forbidding their spouses to have friends of the opposite sex is truly sad.
When I grew up, there were several girls in the immediate neighborhood who were more or less my age that I've been friends with. I've always viewed girls/women as being equal to boys/men. I've had a short period of being a Christian myself (in my teenage years) and one of the things that bothered me the most was this segregation of men and women. I guess, it all stems from Christians' unhealthy view on all things sexual - and by extension, assigning a sexual connotation on a whole lot of things that aren't sexual in nature. Genuine friendships between men and women then is just one example among many others.
Underlying all of this seems to be the fear that anybody of the opposite sex is an inherent peril by the sheer nature of their chromosomes. I don't know if this is a result of the toxic purity culture or a deep-rooted insecurity. Whatever it may be, I find it ridiculous. I am with my partner because she's the one I want to be with. If I didn't want to be with her, banning contact with the opposite sex wouldn't change this. In the same way, having normal human interactions with other people (including, gasp!, women) won't make me to want to run away from my partner. If this were the case, this would be an indication that there's something wrong in our relationship.
Thank you for bringing normalcy and perspective for those of us raised in the twisted madness of purity culture.
What good can possibly come from men or women having friends of the opposite sex outside of their marriage?
@@michaellemmen friendship, perhaps?
@@michaellemmen what do you mean “what good”? Is friendship not “good” to you?
@@michaellemmen literally the friendship lmao if you don't feel secure enough on your marriage that having a friend from the opposite sex (in case you are married to someone of the opposite sex) can put in danger your marriage, that's a YOU problem. If your spouse is your only friend, the only person you can trust and joke around, that's sad.
Mike drop moment: When Taylor says, "I'm bisexual--does that mean I can't have any friends?" on the topic of having friends of the opposite sex. Paul and Morgan forget that the whole world is not straight.
They’re talking a about a Christian relationship tho. That’s what most of their videos are about. So they wouldn’t be giving Christian advice to someone who is part of the LGBTQ community because those people are not part of the Christian community.
@@stephanietaylor2824 some Christians are lgbt, tho I don't think p&m would ever support that
Well no, they believe marriage is between a man and a woman and presumably view being bi/gay as invalid and just someone having sinful thoughts or behaviours. Which is disgusting, but not incoherent with anything they said.
@@stephanietaylor2824there are 100% gay and bisexual and otherwise christians my friend
@@vapiddreamscape yeah and porgan doesnt give af. being a gay/bi christian is actually self harm tbh LMAO
I have a lot of male friends. It always bothered me that there seemed to be a narrative in the church that you cannot be around someone of the opposite gender, because you WILL rip their clothes off. Having friends of the opposite gender is fine. Having a friendship that detracts from your relationship is an issue, regardless of gender.
God, I really hope to one day see a video talking about their divorce... because seriously, she's married to someone who's got the red flags all around him!
EDIT: I should clarify, I am not so much rooting for their divorce, but I am concerned that this marriage is not healthy, and that Morgan is ultimately the one who is put in a forced subservient position.
So true! I feel sorry for Morgan
Their marriage has more red flags than the kremlin…
they are both shitty people, they deserve each other.
I mean… Paul does creep me out a bit but this comment is really cruel. We don’t know what their relationship is like based on a RUclips video. Rooting for their divorce is just gross.
I’d rather hope to see both of them grow into better, more critically-thinking people together (and bring hoards of other questioning/impressionable young couples with them) than go through the pain of a divorce… publicly.
I stopped leading people when I left the Navy. My wife is her own person. No one pays me to lead anymore.
As someone who's parents put each other over their children, it was awful to grow up like that. My family has other issues too, but a lot of them were caused by that. My parents were a family unit and my brother and I were on the outside. My mother was always right, my father would back her up even when she was blatantly wrong, and they would both back each other up even when one was being abusive.
If my partner and I ever consider having children, one of the major deciding factors will be whether we feel that we can put our children above each other, and if we aren't able to do that, we won't have children. It is completely unfair to raise a child in that environment.
Not to be rude, but Paul sounded super insecure when talking about how Husbands are supposed to be leaders. Like he just has to be the one in charge. Even when he let's his wife take the lead, it still has to be known that this is an exception and he still has a leader title.
Narcissism at its finest
@@sarahrobertson634 Religion "that stays the man/owner is more important then the wife/servant" at its finest
@@G.D.G. Definitely. Religion is the worst. This is why women have walked away from religion, marriage, and motherhood.
Cause he knows he sucks at this. Morgan is a more likeable person with more experience and more down to earth whether Paul is only booksmart and doesn’t really have much wisdom he claims he has.
@@G.D.G. The Bible never talks about a husband owning his wife. I think you confused history and tradition with the Bible. It might be in some people’s cultures to think this way (which is wrong) but the Bible never says this
My husband I don’t really fight. We discuss. We talk for hours. I just really enjoy talking to him and finding out his thoughts. I suggest having your own friends and hobbies. Be a couple but also have your own lives. Been together for 25 years. I still happydance when he calls me. He brings me a coffee home when he gets home bc he’s knows I love them❤.
How I wish more people would talk instead of pushing their opinions as the ultimate truth.
When P and M were talking about not having opposite sex friends it made me really sad for them. I have so many wonderful and fulfilling friendships with men and women (and I'm bisexual). My husband has a very close relationship with another woman and it makes me really happy for them! I'm so lucky to be polyamorous, it's made my friendships so much better.
Yeah. Even with the monogamous relationship, the platonic friendships with the opposite sex are perfectly valid and workable.
@@josephine4s What do you mean by "tonic"? Not trying to be rude, seriously. It's just: In many languages "tonic" is the name of a beverage. xD
@@07Flash11MRC Ah! I was using voice-to-text and said "platonic," but apparently the device didn't catch the first part. Thank you for recognizing that the vast array of language use includes stuff that we may not have heard before, though :) I do think that "tonic" is most comonly used to refer to the beverage, but I actually usually think of the word first in terms of a medicinal liquid :P
I couldn’t imagine cutting off deep friendships just because I got married. Also bisexual, so I guess I couldn’t have any close individual friends! 😂 Whenever Christians say this, I just feel bad for them that they don’t trust their partners to have friendships that aren’t sexual.
@@josephine4s Interestingly enough both words do have a greek origin, but have very little to do with one another.
Tonic very literally means something toned, as back in the day there existed a belief that health was derived from firmly stretched muscles. So multifaceted medicinal origins on this one.
Platonic is of course in reference to Plato. He established a philosophy based on the notion that all ideas exist in a sort of pure form apart from the material world. Thus the essence of love would be nonsexual. This was widely ridiculed and sneered at by contemporaries, but I guess it did have merit if we're to base it off of staying power. A strong friendship is the perfect use of that word I feel, regardless of what anyone may think of the philosophical origins.
It’s interesting how sometimes Morgan gets close to being reasonable and making sense then just misses the mark. I feel Paul is the one swaying her off course.
Paul is definitely more of the manipulative narcissist in the relationship, but hopefully he continues to provide some good value for her relationship that she remains comfortable with and increases her self-esteem. Etc.
@@letsomethingshinesorry.. Not gonna happen. If you watch some videos of them... It's bad. He is really really bad. Pretty sure he is the one if the main reasons for her being so emotionally infantile.
Indoctrination
Your point on bisexuality at 28:20 got me 😂 that’s all it took for me to understand how ridiculous the notion is about having friends of the opposite sex. Guess being bisexual means I can only hang out with my significant other!
As that one post online said: "for bisexuals there are no friends, there is only prey" 🤣
Great video, my relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, Really love her so much, i can’t stop thinking about her. I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated because i literally can't envision my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Your feelings are understandable, It's always difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation when my wife of 12 years left me, i couldn't just let her go. I did all I could to get her back, I had to seek the help of a spiritual adviser who helped me bring her back.
@@Margart526 Wow, how did you get a spiritual adviser, and how do i reach her?
@@ddirtdid Her name is MONICA ERLENE MORA, and she is a great spiritual adviser as well as a caster and healer
@@Margart526 Thank you for this valuable information, I just looked her up online. impressive.
I'm really sorry you're struggling. Try to remember that if she left you, she won't be the love of your life, and you'll find someone who's an even better fit for you eventually. Try getting therapy, relying on supportive friends and family, and building good quality new relationships, volunteer and community roles and hobbies which help you build a new, happy life as a single person. There's many, many people out there who can relate to your pain but have since successfully moved on to be happier than ever.
Regarding the first advice (don't go to bad in anger), I think that is actually very, very important routine to go through, cleansing your mind before sleep, as it were. It's not about solving the issue, it's about letting go of the emotion. Hell, you should even do it when you're single. Whatever troubled you during the day, don't take it into bed with you. If you are upset with your partner, decouple the issue from the emotion. Work the issue during the day, for as many days as it takes, but don't let the negative emotions ruin your sleep.
I disagree you process events during sleep regardless , sleep will bring minds less influence by emotion because to let go of emotion is too express them and time in-between allows for introspection .. what does it mean too decouple the issue from the emotion when the issue cause the emotion sure you can look at it from different perspective but if you don't do that introspection you will have intrusive thoughts when you trying too sleep like if you suddenly remember all embarrassing memories also define cleansing in this context
Why is anger an negative emotion?? Theres plenty of situations that if they was happening and someone wasn't angry bout it would be looked at as wrong response by majority of people.. all emotion are natural parts of being and serve purpose
@@jmarch_503 You raise some interesting points.
Anger is not per se a negative emotion. It can be very useful - it can be stimulating, it can energize you and you can use it to drive you into action. But for this, you have to be in control over your anger, you literally have to master your anger. On the other hand, when your anger controls you, when you are not in charge over it, it can be, and often is, destructive, especially when it boils in you for a longer time.
How other people react to you not getting angry when they expect you to get angry, well honestly, that doesn't need to be any of your concern. It is up to you, not them, how you react to a situation.
In essence, how you react to anything is a choice. Most of the time we are not aware of this, but when we get angry, we actually decided to get angry. It took me years to recognize that I always have the choice. If something annoyed me, getting angry was my go-to reaction. I learned (slowly and with setbacks) that I have other reactions at my disposal or even that not reacting at all is also an option. These days, I try just to wait a few heartbeats before reacting. In many situations I find that not having any emotional response really works quite well.
Looking back at my angry days, I find I have enjoyed life much more since I let go of my anger.
I always thought people said don't go to bed angry with your S/O because they could die in their sleep
Hubby and I are closing in on 18 years married and we never fight or argue but we do have times of not agreeing however we are always respectful and considerate to each other. No yelling no name calling or blaming, mostly expressing our feelings. We are up in age and have both found most arguments/fights are over small things that in the larger scheme of things don’t matter. Coming from me the wife if the kitchen cabinet door isn’t closed doesn’t warrant being upset.
They're depressing as f*ck and I'm sorry for the wife, because she's visibly uncomfortable in a lot of videos and to me it's clear she disagrees with his opinions, but is trapped into a marriage she probably believes she can't get out of. Girl, divorce his narcissistic ass immediately. They did a video on s*x advice and it was desperately sad. I saw a therapist react to it and talk about it. And just wow.
I haven’t watched much of this video yet, but something I already love is how patient and attentive they are when listening to things they don’t agree with. They’re really listening and responding, instead of reacting and putting others down. I love that energy. Great videos ❤️
Ultimately, any marriage advice that assumes your spouse is mature godly is fundamentally flawed and problematic. I regret putting the unity of my couple ahead of the emotional needs of my children. I am often their only advocate and if I don’t have their back when necessary, that is going to hurt them and my relationship with them. Not worth sacrificing that to appease a toxic spouse (no matter what level of toxicity).
Louder for the people in the back!!!!
Men are often jealous of their own children
It should be said that a lot of people, especially in Christian marriages where women are told they need to obey their husbands in order to please God, avoid conflict due to potential abuse and fear not because they got bad marriage advice.
That's true. They always push that women are beneath men and men are the lead . Which your a team. Men and women are equal human beings
Sometimes people talk about things and not really know the foundation of it. I was skeptic about it too but now I understand that God designed a marriage to be a team.
“Obeying your husband” is not what the Bible says, yes honour one another and the husband should should lay down their life for their wives (that’s not to be taken lightly) and women are to submit (this does not mean to obey anything the husband says but to work together as a team and consult things) since the husband is the one who would protect the family, protect the relationship from harm and that involves knowing what truly is happening in both their marriage and family. 1Corinthians 13 talks about what love should look like. And that doesn’t apply to one or the other but to both.
Hope that helps (:
They avoid conflict due to abuse( or fear of being abused) ? How does that work exactly? Plus, Christians are advised to stay in abusive marriages. Having to mindlessly obey is abusive. I really don't get what you are saying.
@@littlebitofhope1489 often times women in domestic violence situations actively work at avoiding any type of conflict with their spouse so they don't anger said spouse and get hurt. So, what I said is exactly what I meant.
@@bangsandbullets Maybe, but you did not say it well. Also meaning what you say does not mean what you say is correct. Being told to obey an abusive husband IS bad advice. They should be telling them to get the hell out. "Obey" is a PART of the abuse. So part of the system of abuse is that bad advice. Domestic Violence doesn't always happen in isolation. There are social, cultural and societal aspects to it.
The don't put your kids before your husband (that whole response was really sexist) was a dog whistle for keep giving sex to your husband after you have kids. Also what about the mom's needs? Why just kids and husband?
The mom is a perpetual servant to everyone around her, according to these people. Disgusting.
It just sounds like they're insecure and paranoid that someone of the opposite sex could "steal" their S/O away. Plus any time your partner is trying to control who you can and can't see/hang out with it's a big red flag.
The husband coming before the kids thing in that dynamic is problematic. I heard the statement all the time growing up and it was an excuse to not properly protect kids. If your husband is the "priority" to the point you are excusing abuse this mentality isn't okay. I do agree you have to work on your relationship and make it a priority. Those priorities are equal though because both are necessary. If the choice is between your spouse and your children's physical/mental well-being, your kids should come first every time.
Children are so young and small they cannot fend for themselves so they should be a priority in a family. When your husband behaves like another child for you to care for then the children aren't getting the care and attention they need. So many women complain that after so many years of marriage they see their husband as just one of the kids they need to take care of when he should be a co-parent.
@@lemsip207 I completely agree. A husband shouldn't be an extra child. It drives me absolutely insane.
@@akinamachni5718 My father behaved like an extra child at times. I often heard my mother talking down to him like he was a child as it was the only way she could get through to him. Well at least he could fix himself a sandwich as he went to bed after us all & often was hungry just before he went to bed.
@@lemsip207 I get it. I grew up with a similar dynamic only my mom was too submissive to talk down to him.
First one:
I think, however, saying ‘We’re not going to sort this out tonight, and I need time to process this’ isn’t ’going to bed angry’. Going to bed angry is “You’re a fucking bitch. I’m going to bed.”
The first is loving without resolution. You don’t have to sort out all the problems. The second is a real problem
If you're calling your partner nasty names, then that's an issue regardless of whether you're going to bed or not. You can be angry and still be mature about it. "I need time to process this" is something that I find myself stating quite often when I'm angry.
Sometimes people are angry because they are lacking sleep so they should go to bed angry to sleep on it. It's why so many people sleep on decisions & also conflicts.
How Morgan worded the one about the kids, she said she rejects that their "needs" come first, but then did not talk about their needs (by claiming "friendship" is a need?). I do not have any biological children, but I raised my brother (as his guardian), and I think that a child's needs have to come first, unless one's partner's needs are unable to be addressed by them (i.e. a disabled person). Needs should be addressed accordingly to anyone's inability to address said need. Since their baby is only 4 months old, there are no needs that Paul could possibly have that would garner attention over their infant (unless an emergency situation).
I respect both of your input on all of their rejection of advices. I really would love both of you to comment on more of their videos, because I feel as former Christians, you offer a bit more nuance to add in, showing that not all Christian values are bad, but there are so many that can be harmful (especially concerning fundamentalists and biblical literalists).
The way I was taught the "You're marrying the family" rhetoric is that when you marry a person, your marriage is just with that person. But through your marriage with them, you are becoming a part of their family. And yes many people do have poor relationships with their family. That's still a part of their life that you are now included in. If I get married and my husband has a strained relationship with a relative, I would support him and his boundaries toward that relative. Because we are a team and they become my boundaries too. The type of relationship he has with his family becomes my relationship with his family and the same goes for him and my family.
Idk if that makes sense at all. That's just how I was taught and of course there are going to be exceptions, because ultimately our priority is our partner
This makes 100% sense. You are honoring and respecting your spouse's boundaries with his/her family.
The whole "marrying the family" thing, what if that family involves children from a previous relationship? I was 7 when my parents married and my dad adopted me. He knew that it was a package deal and he, at 24 years old, accepted that responsibility. Or in the case of an adult child who is a caregiver for a parent? In certain cases it is important that the spouse know that certain family members are a priority and come with the marriage.
Woohoo! You're back! Awesome video - those two are... kind of weird...
Thank you!
I think there is a difference between anger and disagreement. You can disagree forever, agree to disagree, and still let go of your anger. You don't need to agree about everything to have a happy marriage.
My husband knew when he married me that my family came with the package. My mom is my best friend and we live in the same town. There are healthy boundaries, but if my family and my husband didn’t get along it never would have worked out long term because I would have always been in the middle. I’m so glad my parents love my husband and my husband loves my parents.
I'm close to my mom also. I hate my husband's mother she's a covert narcissist. She's 73 loves an hour away and I don't talk to her or let her visit anymore
That’s honestly so beautiful to hear
Regardless of what they say verbally, their physical language gives me a superficial vibe. Their eye contact, crossed arms, interpreting each other's talking, unhappy facial expression with hidden emotions...Morgan's body language keeps communicating that she is not comfortable and/or disagree with what her husband says yet she is afraid of expressing them verbally. However, our body can not hide.
Watching Taylor and Drew interact as a couple brings me such joy! Y'all are adorable!!!
I have a therapist who happens to be Christian and she even brings in very broad life lessons and examples from bible study, but she does so in a way that allows for them to be interpreted and useful in a completely secular lens. For instance one time she said that right know you are not prepared for every obstacle you encounter in the future-rather, you will be ready when each of those hurdles and challenges happen, so you shouldn’t pressure yourself or place these huge expectations on your present and current self. Super nice advice.
yessssssssss I'm here for this content
💕💕💕
My mom basically did what Morgan mentioned at the end… put all of her time, effort, and energy into her children, but forsook her relationship with my dad. My sister will be leaving the house soon. I hope they don’t divorce.
Morgan has some real “I’m being held captive” vibes.
Many relationships get "forgotten" when kids are around. People get so busy with their jobs and kids that not enough time is spent on the relationship. Many times I don't even think people realize it right away. The day to day grind takes over.
"Women don't forgot to serve your husband" I can't believe you guys never heard that growing up!
Gross. Women are not inferior.
Serve him with divorce papers?
The kids thing is interesting definitely can be an issue for marriages. Many married couples won’t even spend alone time together after they have kids. That means no dates, no trips, nothing just the two of them. That’s when it becomes an issue. Married parents need to be conscious to set aside time for each other and actively work on their relationship. And this isn’t just about relationships parents should have hobbies and outside interests that don’t revolve around their kids a parent is a role you have not your whole identity.
Every time I see/hear Morgan, I have to remind myself that she’s not an 18 year old.
It's more the swagger she has than the tired eyes, that guy looks like he sleeps as soundly as Dennis from Always Sunny.
I’ve never commented so often on a video… but the longer I watch Paul and Morgan AS a Christian the more I face-palm. There is so much too detangle in their doctrine that I cannot even… 🤷🏽♀️
11:15
Oh yeah, Paul agrees that the wife may sometimes take the lead.
When he gives her permission.
You know who else said you need to put your spouse before your kids? Michelle Duggar. And she had 19 kids. That’s why those kids all raised each other. While she was having sweet fellowship with JB.
The only person who I can think of who would say that you shouldn't have any conflict/you should not bring up things you don't like is the transformed wife.
Glad to see you and GMS collab on this video. You guys seem to have good chemistry and play off each other well
My biggest thing with my boyfriend and I, we don’t go to bed angry exactly, we will say I love you and continue fighting the next day lmao and we also never argue in public, or in front of people, we wait until we’re in the car or at home
That's just good manners from both of you, hats off.
I really enjoy listening to you guys discuss these topics. And I think it goes a long way in showing that, while we reject the theism aspect, most people, regardless of faith or lack thereof, have very similar standards in the relationship sphere. Good job!
So, I am really enjoying you and @GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic covering Paul and Morgan’s marriage advice. It’s literally my favorite. My only issue is with Paul and Morgan, I hate hearing both of them use combinations of popular lingo and AAVE. Them trying to be cool is cringe worthy every time 😂
I had the exact same thought about Bisexuality when they were talking about friendships with the opposite sex. 😅
So much of the “wisdom” in that world is based on what’s necessary to keep together at all cost marriages that never should have happened: the kind that started off as two people who were barely legal adults, with very little exploration of self or relationships, getting married quickly because it was the thing to do or because they wanted to have sex. When the foundations of a healthy relationship were never built, or they weren’t ever really a great match for each other, then a lot of things pose actual danger of divorce that wouldn’t be a problem if they had taken their time and married the right person for them in the first place. That friend of the opposite sex does pose a temptation risk when you should not have married your spouse in the first place and you are using friendships as the only outlet for the part of yourself that has never been satisfied in your marriage. Or, if you never really found that closeness before kids, it can be very easy to shift all of your effort into the kids, who you both truly love and adore, as a means of ignoring the deficiencies in the marriage.
That’s not to say that it’s impossible to find the right person for you at a young age. It looks like you guys did, and I did the same. But when I look back at the pairings that I saw in my Christian circles back in the day, most didn’t actually seem to tick off the boxes for really fitting well with each other in a way that bode well for the duration, you know? And all too many couples got engaged because they happened to be dating at the age when everyone else was getting engaged.
And the thing is, if you are coming from the point of view that divorce is never ok, combined with a marriage between two people who probably would have broken up within the year if they kept just dating instead of getting engaged, then evidence based therapy is a real threat, because it’s going to show them how flimsy their bond is and what actual emotional health looks like. And that probably won’t include staying married.
And let’s be honest: how many older church couples did we all know that were almost never seen together outside the church pew? He would spend most of his time at work or in church leadership, she crammed her free time full with organizing Sunday School, potlucks or the women’s Bible Study to avoid being home when he was. Truth is, the secret to their marriages was avoiding each other as much as possible and they needed the husband to be the go-to decision maker in order to avoid having real discussions.
the biggest problem i have with paul and morgan is that they are tryna give marriage advice while they are so young. if you want good marriage advice you ought to go to a couple who's been happily married for a few decades
I'm commenting as I watch, so maybe they will explain that later, but I think Morgan says the first one is weird, because it's based on the Bible actually. She phrases is it as "don't go to sleep angry" but it's referring to Ephesians 4:26 "In your anger do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry". I guess Morgan means that the weird thing is that they disagree with it.
4:57 that is actually good advice:
"good night, i love you, we'll figure this out, we're still on the same team."
When you're overly tired or when the argument has gone on for too long, you won't be able to solve it in that situation. Sometimes you need to disengage and ground yourself, away from your partner. Which doesn't mean you should hold a grudge against them. Reassurance is a kind thing. You ARE still on the same team! ❤
New subbie. Love your videos.
Marrying the family topic is situational. My big Hispanic family is very important to me, it’s almost cultural and I wanted a husband that understood how important my family is to me. I do however understand that toxic family members need to be kept at arms length or cut off all together.
Dude quoted lyrics from a breakup song, so...
If you marry a person you're marrying their whole family is tricky advice to me at this point. I do think chosen family is important, but people who aren't estranged from their family are very much influenced by them. As a for instance, my ex's mother got divorced before we got married, and then set about having a destructive influence on all of the marriages in the family including ours. Today, my ex's aunt and both of her sisters are divorced as well. That's all of the marriages other than her grandma's second marriage in the entire family. So yeah, be aware of family dynamics when you're marrying someone. PS I'm not saying I didn't contribute to our divorce. Divorces are almost always a two person problem. I'm just saying her abusive father and the bitterness he left in that whole family was a big factor that resulted in my ex being very willing to give up on our relationship as soon as there were issues
16:15 I definitely heard that from my old fashioned southern mother. "Don't be difficult."
Morgan’s body language freaks me out. So unsure of herself.
Great video!
"A lot of what they have to say is so surfacey, it's like they're not saying anything." So much this. I was so surprised by how shallow the conversation was between Paul and Morgan, I kept waiting for... you know... actual advice? Some of what they "disagreed" with felt made up, and others felt more like general vague sayings rather than actual advice. Just... not a lot of depth there. Their suggestion to stay away from research-based therapists kind of broke my heart. I wish they realized that just because someone avails themselves of the current knowledge, insight, and research on a topic, that doesn't make it anti-spiritual or bad. What Paul and Morgan represent in this video is what some Christians would call "legalism" - basically, making up a bunch of arbitrary rules that sound good on the surface, and acting like those rules have to be followed if you want to be "good enough." It's a bid for superiority and tbh I think sometimes people use these arbitrary rules to fill in what is missing in their lives... ie, they don't feel great about themselves, so they reach for rules to make themselves feel like they're on top.
So glad you're back, great video!
Thank you 😘
I've been watching your channel(s) the past couple weeks and listen with deep interest how you not only found your way out of religious darkness by allowing logic to have a say in your life, but also that you managed to stay together by both finding that same path to travel together. I'm reminded of my favorite quote. It's by Bennett W. Goodspeed: "The difference between a comedy and a tragedy is that in a comedy the characters figure out reality in enough time to do something about it." 🙂I found that freedom from religious BS unraveled all at once (I was at the doorstep for years but never claimed it), and then was swept out from smaller spaces in my psyche in layers over many years. However, the night that the house next door to me burned down I had no thought of an invisible savior for me or my house in my deepest moments of anxiety and action, nor did I worry about needing salvation prior to death, and I knew well and truly that religion was not attached to my psyche at any level. Not even the tiniest inkling. Truly free. I see more and more freedom in your futures. 🙂 X-posted on both your pages....
Are P+M passive-aggressively workin’ thru some of their own shit in this video??
He’s like, “Marryin’ a chick doesn’t mean i’m marryin’ her whole ding-dang family! Amirite bros??” And she’s looking at him like, “Bitch, you made a point of saying that your mom is right upstairs and she gets a say in our RUclips channel!” But then she says, “Verrry interesting, okay.” 😆
From what I've gathered Morgan is very close with her mom and sister so I really do think Paul was being passive aggressive like "I'm married to you, not your mom"
I absolutely _hate_ the idea that the man has to lead in a relationship. My parents are like that. My mom has been disregarded and walked over and she’s proud of it. It’s how she was raised. As a result I was never taught to stand up for myself which led to me being sexually assaulted among other things. I often don’t know how to communicate in a healthy manner either. I’m slowly learning but an entire lifetime of control like that has been so detrimental.
My dad probably has no idea he’s controlling. They wonder why I don’t visit.
If you have to strut around saying I'm the leader I'm the leader -- are you really?
On advice #2, where there saying there needs to be a leader in a marriage and that egalitarianism is bad; this is a very binary way of looking at things, where you either have a leader OR egalitarianism (and also one is better than the other)
My husband and I play to each other’s strengths in the relationship. I take on the day to day tasks like cooking, shopping, & pickups, and he handles the bureaucratic stuff like bill payments, and home & electrical repairs. When it comes to cleaning, he’s better at cleaning in daily small bursts and general cleaning maintenance, whereas I tend to take on the once a week deep cleans. I’m better at planning things out, he’s better at responding to spontaneous issues. And if one of us has more on our plate than the other, we help each other out. If one of us is going through some mental health stuff (yay us both having ADHD & depression), we know that sometimes we do shoulder more of the responsibilities. Egalitarianism isn’t everything 50/50, it’s knowing that sometimes it’s gonna be 80/20, 25/75, etc.
I also love to tell people when they ask us for marital advice that we’re not marriage experts. We’re the most knowledgeable about *our* marriage and even then, we aren’t perfect.
There are some genuinely problematic statements that I don't think you fully addressed.
Not having opposite gender friends - controlling your partner's friendships is a massive red flag. Relationships are supposed to be about trust and respect.
Also, if your partner can't spend time alone with someone without jumping into bed with them or whatever then they need serious therapy for their compulsive uncontrollable behaviour.
Head of the household - another red flag and open to abuse. How can one partner ever freely express their opinion if they know that their partner may completely disregard it or even get angry if there's a differing opinion.
If one person always gets their way in any disagreements, that creates a massive power imbalance.
Husband > kids - sort of relates to the last one, it's not healthy to put one person on a pedestal like that. Also, this implies that if the husband was harming the kids in some way (maybe minor like not helping them with something up to actual abuse) then she would side with her husband and not help the kids.
There also seems to be this assumption that he won't be doing any of the parenting (and because he's in charge, she can't do anything about it) - no wonder she's so stressed out with their 4 month old!
They also have this weird idea that the kids will suddenly disappear from their lives at 18. Just because legally they're adults, doesn't mean that they stop needing their parents. It's also really common nowadays for kids to live at home well into their 20s.
Also, if both parents are parenting properly, then they'll be working together and can actually make time for themselves separately or with their kids. There are also babysitters if you want to go out without the kids.
I'm not saying that their relationship is abusive, but it's definitely got some unhealthy tendencies that increase the likelihood of abuse (particularly from him). We don't want to return to a time where the head of the household can beat his wife without consequence, because he's "in charge" and can therefore decide if his wife "deserves it".
Can we promote healthy loving relationships of all varieties instead?
Men are often jealous of their own children.
Fascinating. My feeling on advice in general is you have to own it and decide if this is applicable/works for you and your situation, and you also need to understand whats behind the advice (not just the snappy sentance). Even in therapy situations there is no 'one true way' and there has to be nuance and because a particular method has a high success rate, it doesn't mean it will be right for YOU. The don't prioritize your children at the expense of your spouse is a good example. It's not terrible advice, its way too easy as a parent to be overwhelmed and not make time for each other and grow apart. The child though is utterly dependent on you. So you have to decide what's really important and find a balance and sometimes yes that means totally focussing on the child. But, you can still do that together, supporting each other.
As I've got older, through a divorce and a kid growing up, my views on relationships have changed. Now I much more think of three entities in the marriage, me, them and us. Sometimes its important to prioritise ourselves and a loving partner will be behind that (in the end they get a better you to be with). Sometimes we will make decisions that go against what would be best for me/them but are better for us. I never go away, they never go away, there is just a different thing to be considered which is 'us'.
Even though I am a Christian and don't agree with your beliefs, I just have to say I really appreciate how you both went about this video and that you weren't mean and cruel with the differences we both share in our beliefs. Very rare to see so thank you both for just being real but saying your differences with kindness at the same time. 🙂👍🏻
I have a very dim view of people who can't grasp the concept of genuine platonic friendship between men & women.
Regarding the opposite sex friendships, I feel the Evangelical Christianity represses mens' emotional autonomy as much as it represses womens' bodily autonomy. Most boys raised in those religions are taught to suppress how they feel + objective women = have no idea how to connect with their own emotions (let alone a woman's), so they conclude positive feelings towards a woman is automatically romantic. Which then perpetuates the cycle of misery for all involved
That one about friends made me sick, that's some abusive gas lighty shit
It seems to me that Paul and Morgan are doing what most Christians do. They mold their Christianity to fit their own needs wherever they think is works best for them. Secular couples work out their own needs in their marriage regardless of what the Bible says.
When I was a Christian as a child (against my fucking will because of course it was) all I knew was that women were treated less than, and I wanted to prove to people that women were and could be everything. I’m a man, but I could never understand it. The way they spoke about my sisters/mother was disgusting.
You sound so similar to jordan from jordan and mccay xD and paul singing the jonas brothers took a year off my life
"hanging out with friends of the oposite sex can lead to divorce" *laughs in open relationship*
I like how respectful both of you are.
Hello! I am a school counselor and working on my LPC (licensed professional counselor). I also have faith that aligns with some things in Christianity. I would never ever push any of my beliefs onto another person. We have this thing called nonmalificence, which means do no harm. Super important!!!
Also don't reject counseling as a whole, bc we have studied for years (masters degrees are required in the counseling field, at least in PA) and our studies are backed by science (thanks Morgan and Paul😒 lol).