Ok thanks for that. You saved me a long watch. Was about to watch the whole video but if one of them said that about one of my favourite pumpkins songs of all time - yeah I’m out 😂
The Smashing Pumpkins were one of the first rock bands I really loved as a kid (and the first one that felt like my own band). I was a preteen in the mid 90s when Mellon Collie came out and I was all about them for awhile. Then by the time Adore came around I loved the singles but never ended up getting the album at the time. Then after that it seemed like everything I heard about their albums was negative and so I just stuck with the older stuff I already loved. That was a mistake. Going through their discography for this dive was quite a revelation, I found so much to really enjoy and love. I'm still trying to finalize a song list because there are so many great songs. I regret not checking out those later albums until now but glad I finally have. It seems I may still be under appreciating Oceania, I'll have to give that one a revisit. 12) Monuments to an Elegy - 3 (6.3) 11) Shiny and Oh So Bright - 3.5 (6.7) 10) Cyr - 3.5 (6.7) 9) Machina II - 3.5 (7.0) 8) Oceania - 3.5 (7.3) 7) ATUM - 3.5 (7.5) 6) Gish - 4 (8.0) 5) Zeitgeist - 4 (8.1) 4) Machina - 4 (8.1) 3) Adore - 4 (8.2) 2) Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness - 4.5 (9.2) 1) Siamese Dream - 5 (9.5)
Landed here via the Smashing Pumpkins reddit - so, yeah - that says a lot about how much I love SP. They're my band. Great list. I'm now off to delve into your guys' other videos for bands I'm less versed in, as I really found your analysis without the cloud of nostalgia refreshing. While it's impossible for me to remotely consider putting Shiny, Cyr or Atum above Machina or Machina 2, the fact that Zeitgeist and Oceania trump some of the old albums is a very interesting take, and one that I really appreciated hearing the take from guys who don't have the nostalgia fog.
The irony embedded in the singing on Today and the gorgeous Soma with it's building intensity made me an instant fan. They were at the zenith of the alt rock mountain at the time of Bullet with Butterfly Wings - I remember seeing the video for that song back in the day and thinking they were at that moment pretty much the hottest band in the world and could do no wrong. I, like many others I'm sure, hung on with a sense of diminishing returns through Adore and Machina and then moved on. Billy is a great front man and guitarist. Thank you for covering.
Bold predictions for Hall & Oates week: 1. Kramzer will put the Christmas album at his #1 spot. 2. Jason will say “You Make my Dreams” is one of their worst songs. 3. Joe will reveal Daryl Hall is his uncle. 4. Jason will reveal John Oates is his father.
Great list guys! Mellon Collie is probably my favorite album of all time. Nostalgia likely paints this, as this was my first album I received. I listened to this beast incessantly but like Joe said, it is even better than you remember it. Insane diversity from the relentless heaviness of Jellybelly to the heavenly harps of Cupid de Locke. My ranking 1. Mellon Collie-5/5 2. Siamese Dream-4.5/5 3. Adore-4.5/5 4. Machina 1-4/5 5. Machina 2- 4/5 6. Atum- 4/5 7. Oceania-4/5 8. Gish-3.5/5 9. Monuments-3.5/5 10. Zeitgeist-3/5 11. CYR-3/5 12. Shiny-2.5/5
Great to have you guys back with a terrific overview of a modern classic band! We missed you guys, and missed these high quality reviews/ insights! Hope cadence gets back to normal. Pretty cool group, always interesting voice/point of view from Billy C, and some killer riffs. Best and cheers, JPE
Pleasantly surprised by your high placements of Oceania - it’s a great record. A bit disappointed by the low placements of Machina, it’s even better imo. My list: 1. MCIS 5/5 2. Siamese Dream 5/5 3. Machina 1&2 4,5/5 4. Adore 4,5/5 5. Oceania 4/5 6. Zeitgeist 4/5 7. Gish 4/5 8. CYR 3,5/5 9. ATUM 3/5 10. Monuments to an Elegy 2,5/5 11. Shiny and Oh So Bright 2,5/5
Great work once again guys!👌👌👌 Was not ever really into the SPs but after watching this and Rick Beato’s recent (great) interview with Billy I REALLY need to explore their work!!
Awesome video guys. My favorite for sure is Siamese Dream. This is the one album of theirs that I have a very strong connection to. It’s big and epic and perfect. Favorite song on it is Hummer.
I desperately need a queens of the Stone Age one Loll. I feel like between the 3 of you guys the difference in ratings and overall debate would be perfect 👍 SO glad u guys did smashing pumpkins:)
Thank you for getting me into Smashing Pumpkins! I knew a couple of their big hits, but never bothered to listen to much more than that, but I've been going through their albums now and it's awesome! Probably never would have done it without your channel. Great insights from you guys about the albums which made the listening experience more interesting as well!
I'm a huge Pumpkins fan so I've been anticipating this, and you did not disappoint, good reviews and Pumpkins appreciation aplenty (apart from the preposterous Joe/Adore anomaly of course 😂). Thanks for an excellent episode.
I've never listened to a Smashing Pumpkins album, but I'll give this video a watch because you three know how to break down an album and make it interesting. Good to see you guys back!!!!!
Nothing would ever beat Siamese Dream for me but I found so much great stuff revisiting them this time. Gish and Oceania especially surprised me in how well they held up! Great work.
The greatest records ever are tight albums. A overly long and bloated 16 track album where most of the songs are forgettable isnt one of the greatest records ever.
Instant subscribe. What a cracking video. Love a lot of the discussion here. Adore being bottom is just mental but apart from that really interesting points. Well done guys,
I would rank them Siamese Dream (9/10) Mellon Collie (8.5/10) Adore (7.75/10) Gish (7.5/10) Atum (6.5/10) Oceania (6.25/10) Machina (6.25/10) Monuments to an Elegy (6/10) Cyr (6/10) Zeitgeist (5.75/10) Shiny and Oh So Bright (5.25/10) Machina II (5/10)
Amazing list. Mellon Collie was one of my favorite albums for a very long time. Bought that and Pisces Iscariot and was hooked. Kinda lost it around Oceania, but I’ve come back and seen how good the later stuff is.
Adore at the bottom is a perfect showing of how amazing the Pumpkins' musical pallette is. They've reached a diverese audience with the soft and the punchy sounds respectively. Thanks for doing this ranking. Also thank you all for honest opinions.
I've been watching this channel for quite a long time now, I love taking the (usually) weekly music journey with you all. This is the episode I've honestly been waiting for since the beginning. The discography with my all time favorite album "Siamese Dream". It is the album i connect with in a way that i connect with no other. I remember the day i bought it - i remember how i felt the first time i heard it on my headphones that night, and i get that same feeling listening to it now. I know every lyric, and note, and constantly anticipate its twists and turns and oddities with every listen. The Fuzz guitar, the dreamy guitar, the clean guitar, the distorted guitar - its a guitar album to beat most all guitar albums. But the next layer to this album is the lyrics/vocal delivery - there's something to it. It has a way of sounding so personal, and direct. It is a complete experience - and it just keeps on giving. Some may just consider it a strong 90's album, but i consider it a example of a perfect album - the songs, the delivery, the imagery, the recording, the production - its a masterclass of doing it 100% right in my book.
01 Siamese Dream 02 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness 03 Gish 04 Adore 05 Machina/The Machines of God 06 Zeitgeist 07 Machina II/The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music 08 Oceania 09 Monuments to an Elegy 10 Cyr 11 Atum: A Rock Opera in Three Acts 12 Shiny and Oh So Bright, Vol. 1 / LP: No Past. No Future. No Sun.
1. Mellon Collie 4.5 2. Siamese Dream 4.5 3. Adore 4 4. Gish 3.5 5. Machina 3.5 6. Oceania 3 Mellon Collie was the first Pumpkins album I had and listened to it almost daily for a long time. It is a special album for me. I haven't really listened to their newer albums (after Oceania) apart from a few songs. But I think I will now, after watching this video. I'll probably even revisit Zeitgeist that I was very disappointed with when it was released.
Jeeeesus, some of these rankings hurt! I thought Joe's Adore at 12 was rough but then Jason comes in with an 11 ranking for Machina II and then Kramzer comes in with a #11 Gish??? I don't even know what to think anymore, I need a beer
@@Chaz4543 They're definitely pretty head to head - in all honesty I was listing these as they happened the Adore thing was just my first taste of the madness, lol
Kramzer is so right about Bodies. Another great video, love these lists. Been a viewer since near the beginning and still waiting on my Prince list ;-)
Hey, thanks for finally releasing this listography from my favorite band! Although I was surprised by some of the picks, I love how honest and varied your opinions are. That's what makes this such a great channel! Siamese Dream is a masterpiece. Not a weak track on there. It came out when I was in high school and will always be my favorite album. I enjoy all their 90's material though, even Adore, ha! I want to give a special shoutout to Pisces Iscariot, which is one of their best albums. I know you didn't include it because it's a b-sides album. Lastly, James did co-write several of the tracks in the early days, including Mayonaise, so he was involved more than you think. Thanks for all your insights and the overall positive assessment of the band. You guys rock!
Billy did a really good job in the awkward post Zwan years of convincing people he wrote everything. He clearly didn’t, you can hear Iha parts all over Melon Collie and Adore. You can seem him recording in the studio in readily available videos. He has a very distinctive ear for texture and melody, because you can hear it on APC as well. The number of Corgan nuthuggers on these comments is embarrassing. When Billy and Jimmy started Zwan, which was amazing, you could hear the lack of beauty in the songs. They were more straightforward texturally, Same applied to Billy’s solo stuff. Still good, but missing something. Then when Jimmy left, look what happened to Oceania and Monuments. Zero iconic drum moments. The Pumpkins is Billy and Jimmy at a minimum and ideally James too.
Sorry Joe, but as a Pumpkins fan for 30 years I adore Adore and would rank it as no. 3 only bettered by Siamese and Mellon Collie. Interesting video but, thanks! Impressed you included Machina 2, i wasn't expecting that. I missed Zeitgeist, so will have to check out that one. Probably made a mistake by believing the critics at the time. I know you guys don't include compilations, but maybe you could have at least mentioned Pisces Iscariot and the Aeroplane Flies High Box set, as they are pretty much essential listening for Pumpkins fans. Stuart
I’m so glad you did the smashing pumpkins list. definitely one my all-time favorite bands easily. I finally saw them last weekend for the first time one of best shows I’ve ever seen. I took my 15-year-old daughter her first concert and she was blown away. I love every single one of their albums. There is nothing below 3.5 stars in my opinion. 1. Mellon collie. 2. Siamese dream 3. Zeitgeist. 4. Gish 5. Oceana. 6. Machina I 7.Monument. 8.Adore 9.Machina II 10.Atum 11. Shiny and all so bright 12.Cyr
Dang! I didn’t think Gish would rank so low. I haven’t delved into everything Smashing Pumpkins but in a weird way Gish is sometimes my favorite Pumpkins record. It’s just so shoegaze and what Jason said about merging 80s alternative with 70s arena rock is incredible. I would even say the fact that Gish was a stepping stone for Siamese Dream even improves the experience for me. Siamese Dream is definitively my number 1 but some days Gish leads me astray in the best of ways
Personally love Corgan's vocals on Zeitgeist, thought the much smoother singing style really suited that album (much as the much rougher singing style really suited Melon Collie).
1. Mellon Collie - Not perfect but has about twenty perfect songs, which is far beyond any other album. Yes, this is the greatest album of all time. 2. Adore - Nearly perfect. One of the best albums I've ever heard. 3. Siamese Dream - Also nearly perfect. Behind Adore because the ratio of perfect songs to really good songs is a bit lower. But this is phenomenal. 4. Machina - Good album but a huge drop from Adore. This is an album made by humans, Billy Corgan is no longer a God. 5. Oceania - Every song is decent but nothing like they were when at their peak. 6. Machina ii - Diet Machina. Has some decent songs like Lucky 13 and Home, but is mostly a step down from Machina. 7-9. Zeitgeist, Gish, Monuments - There's only one good song on each of these albums. In comparison the lackluster Machina and Oceania sounds incredible. The good songs: I absolutely love 7 Shades, a small piece of peak Pumpkins in 2007, I was shocked. Crush is wonderful. And Being Beige is a good one. Haven't heard the rest, I don't know if I want that much disappointment in my life.
Appreciate your work on this post, but cmon, you're generous with Zeitgeist over Adore and Monuments over Machina 😂 from what perspective could this be coming from? (You started being a fan AFTER 2000...?
Heeeeey!!! Welcome back guys, missed you. Not a huge fan of Smashing Pumpkins so will just kick back and watch the fall out with a cup of tea and a bowl of granola (it's breakfast time here!) 😂 Cheers!
I also dig Corgan's voice because he doesn't sound like a human. I can easily imagine his voice belonging to some kind of lovesick fantasy monster which adds to the immersion. Plus it's versatile, it cuts through the distortion of the rock cuts and it sells the other more softer styles.
Thirty-Three is absolutely underrated. I loved it when it was a single and always ever since. It's still exhilarating to hear it even now, made a point of playing it twice in my car only yesterday haha.
The local active rock station in Boston at the time didnt play Thirty-Three when it was a single because it was too soft. They played Here is No Why instead. They did that with a few other huge 90s alternative bands when they released softer singles. Yeah it was lame but it was a active rock/mainstream rock station and not a alternative station so they must have had permission to do that.
Great video guys, awesome to see a Pumpkins ranking, definitely an interesting band with some amazing albums. Funny to see a video where both Kram and Joe had horrendous placements of Gish by Kram and Adore by Joe, but Jason surprisingly wasn’t controversial at all like he normally is. Zeitgeist is criminally underrated, I love that album because it’s a return to straightforward catchy heavy rock. ATUM should have been a double album, if it was it would easily move up to 7th on my list. My ranking below. ALBUM RANKING: 1. Siamese Dream (1993) - ★★★★★ 2. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995) - ★★★★★ 3. Gish (1991) - ★★★★½ 4. Adore (1998) - ★★★★½ 5. Zeitgeist (2007) - ★★★★ 6. Oceania (2012) - ★★★★ 7. MACHINA (2000) - ★★★½ 8. MACHINA II (2000) - ★★★½ 9. Monuments to an Elegy (2014) - ★★★½ 10. Shiny and Oh So Bright Vol. 1 / LP: No Past. No Future. No Sun. (2018) - ★★★½ 11. ATUM (2023) - ★★★½ 12. CYR (2020) - ★★★ RATING SCALE: ★★★★★ - Masterpiece ★★★★½ - Excellent ★★★★ - Great ★★★½ - Very Good ★★★ - Good ★★½ - Okay ★★ - Bad ★½ - Very Bad ★ - Awful ½ - Terrible
Dont know what country youre from but I havent heard the term "wine cooler" used in a long long time. Are those like those Seagram Escapes type of drinks ? I guess those would be the modern or current version of a wine cooler.
Great reviews guys - I didn’t listen to any albums after machina - just the singles and the Zwan album but will definitely go back to them. I listened to zeitgeist and Oceania after watching I am with Joe on Siamese dream - but I have both Siamese and melon color at 5 stars The most controversial thing about the reviews was not Joe putting adore at the bottom (even though this was pretty controversial) it was Kramser saying he would take through the eyes of ruby off melon collie! One of my favourite songs on the album
Got into Smashing Pumpkins when Gish came out. A friend had it on cassette tape and blew my mind with it. Pumpkins were really important for me throughout the 90s and then I immediately stopped... which is my story with a lot of 90s bands! I do like all 4 of the 90s albums quite a bit. My top 4 (because I'm not familiar enough with the rest to rank): 1. Siamese Dream - After falling in love with Gish, it was really satisfying and epic in general to watch that star rise, and to hear those guitars thicken. This album is a masterpiece and one of my favorite all time guitar sounds... and a formative emotional musical touchstone. 2. Gish - We California teens loved the GROOVE at the turn of the decade. I got way into Gish when it was pretty new and loved the loud soft dynamics and the jammy guitars. I was very much into groovy hard rock psychedelia which was a cornerstone of pre grunge alternative (at least, if you lived in California I guess), and Gish was a perfect example of it. I probably give this the two spot out of nostalgia, but it still does it for me. 3. Mellon Collie - Ehhh... so here is the thing, I couldn't buy everything I wanted as a teenage music lover. I had to make hard decisions. What I'm trying to say ashamedly is that I didn't like 1979 or Tonight, so didn't buy the album. I was a slave to radio and MTV for hearing music and those two songs in heavy rotation did not make me want to listen to more of their music. I did like Bullet and Butterfly Wings and Zero well enough but... All 4 songs were so different from what came before that I didn't feel the need to follow them were they were going. Since then, I've totally listened to the whole thing a few times and obviously see that I was wrong and that its great. I'm sure its better than Gish but... I've listened to Gish more, so there it is.
I’m here to defend Machina. It’s overlong but the crunchy death-gaze vibe suits them and some of the melodies are sublime. Granted not top tier Pumpkins but I think it’s too ragged on. I’d place it fourth
Excellent job on the Pumpkins! Would love to hear your ranked lists for Slowdive, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, and Nine Inch Nails. I’m sure it’s irritating to have these “requests,” but just thought I’d put it out there.
Sounds like I should check out Oceania - the Pumpkins had kind of fallen off my radar in this era (post-Zeitgeist), probably because I knew that JC wasn't playing with Billy. Maybe i missed a hidden gem? Thanks for this - it's what these kinds of videos are good for.
haha excusing atum explains why all the weezer trashing from you guys… i guess we don’t see that much eye to eye but it’s nice to have such lengthy music discussions
This was a really good discussion. What gets me is the diversity of opinions here. With the exception of Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie which are generally loved almost anything goes for the rest. Ican see Joes point about Adore as back in the day when I was a big fan of the band (20 years ago !!!) Adore was the beginning of the end back then. Its only been recently I have started to listen again to his works. But of all the comments made I really agree with Krams reason for disliking ATUM as it was too long. In fact that really is Billy Corgans greatest incapability. The inability to distinguish between a great tune that needs to be nurtured and a mediocre tune that should just be allowed to die and be buried. His recording history shows that. But anyhow I am pleAsed to see that they still can put out great tunes. Not with the consistency that made a great album as in the old days but there are still humdingers being produced. Some might disagree there (or to more accurate some will disagree) but I'm sure. As for my album rankings- beyond the first two its all subject to change- but here we go: Siamese Dream (1993)- 5 stars (9) Mellon Collie (1995) (8) Oceania (2012) (7) Machina/The Machines of God (2000) -(6.5) Shiney and Oh So Bright (2018) (6) Zeitgeist (2007) -(5.5) Adore (1998) -(5.5) Gish (1991) -(5) To think I used to love this....but I must be getting old Atum (2023) (4) Cyr (2020) - 4) Monuments to An Elegy (2014) (3.5) Machina II/ The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music (2000) - (3)
I share your sense of whiplash regarding the oscillating quality of Corgan's songwriting. I think his inconsistencies are most evident on Mellon Collie, which is a frustratingly uneven album to my ears. I still gave it 4.5 stars because the best tunes are legit classics, but I could live without almost half the songs.
@@AbbeyRoadkill1 I tend to agree- it was about this time we got all B sides and extras on top of a very long album. He could not help himself. He did not employ the razor much after that.
Kramzer mentioned how their music can make you feel drunk. There is a disorientating aspect to their sound which sets them apart from their peers. When the guys made their best grunge bands video, there were four bands they put above Pumpkins. I suppose the argument can be made the Pumpkins are less grunge than the others because they expanded outside of that label. But the grunge era Pumpkins, which encompasses their output up to Mellon Collie, is as good l, if not better, than Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana, or Alice in Chains. Amazing guitar rock with an emotional depth the other bands don't possess
Such a good video. Thanks guys and listen to the whole thing here’s my ranking and I’m gonna leave off some albums because I haven’t really listened to them in depth, but here it goes Number one Siamese dream Number two melancholy Number three Oceania Number four Atum Number five Machina I Number six adore Number seven monuments Number eight CYR
Most of these albums have never left my listening rotation - EVER. But, here's my rank 1 - Siamese Dream 2 - Mellon Collie 3 - Gish 4 - Machina 5 - Oceania 6 - Zeitgeist 7 - Adore 8 - Shiny and Bright 9 - ATUM 10 - Cyr 11 - Moments 12 - Never have been able to hear Machina 2
One of my favorite bands! Mellon Collie and Siamese are 5/5 star records for me and I love Adore, Gish, and even have a soft spot for Machina and Oceania. They have a few duds, but I think they are more hit than miss.
Agree with your comment, although i rate Adore as a pretty solid album. Yes, Corgan's vocal whine isn't my cup of tea either but do check out his live acoustic version of Tonight Tonight. His vocal seems to work really well when it's just him and his acoustic guitar.
@@raithrover1976 corgans voice isn’t the only reason. I’m pretty old , Siamese Dream came out when I was almost 30. The later bands in my life I pick out a couple of the best albums and move on. I didn’t grow with these the way I did with every Zeppelin or Stones or Neil young or Bowie album when they were coming out.
love these ranked vids, interesting to catch up with what these bands have been doing since i last listened to them pumpkins are great, and despite him being a bit of an oddball at times i respect corgan for sticking with it. we were discussing vedders many attempts to sabotage pearl jams commercial success, and really when you look at the grunge/alt bands of this era: pearl jam: vedder sabotaging stone pilots: scott self destruction alice in chains: layne self destruction soundgarden: self destructed nirvana: kurt self destruction hole: courtney love endless hot mess in a scene where it felt like every band was doing its best to implode the fact that the pumpkins have kept pushing on through and actually listening to some of this new stuff, theyre actually still making really good music, got to hand it to corgan. but my god, someone get this man an editor. triple album? just stop already. im all about the 8-12 track album.
Perhaps the best "discovery" for me so far after watching your videos for a couple of years. The 90s is far from my favorite decade for music, but The Smashing Pumpkins, with their sincerity, strong melodies and ambitions are like a breath of fresh air amongst all the cool ironic noisy slacker nonsense. 12. Zeitgeist (2007) ★★★ 11. Machina II (2000) ★★★ 10. Machina (2000) ★★★ 9. Shiny and Oh So Bright (2018) ★★★½ 8. Cyr (2020) ★★★½ 7. Monuments to an Elegy (2014) ★★★½ 6. Atum (2023) ★★★★ 5. Oceania (2012) ★★★★ 4. Adore (1998) ★★★★½ 3. Gish (1991) ★★★★½ 2. Siamese Dream (1993) ★★★★★ 1. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995) ★★★★★ ★★★★★ - Masterpiece ★★★★½ - Really great ★★★★ - Great ★★★½ - Really good ★★★ - Good ★★½ - OK ★★ - Bad ★½ - Really bad ★ - Awful ½ - The worst
What does James Iha bring to the band? While 90-95% of the Pumpkins sound exists due to Corgan and Chamberlain, once you listen to Iha’s 2012 album Look To The Sky (released in the same year as the Corgan/Pumpkins album Oceania) you might sit up and think “OH! I GET IT!”. While the songcraft is not on par with Corgan’s, it is a bit of a surprise to be able to identify that element that may seem insignificant but is actually quite integral to the overall flavour of the Pumpkins classic sound. Has Corgan succeeded without Iha? Yes. But it could be argued that without the carrot or dash of sugar or whatever ingredient Iha adds to the pot…well, this album reveals why Corgan perhaps prefers to keep Iha in his band. I actually like to listen to both Oceania and Look To The Sky together to get a bit of those Mellon Collie vibes. Give it a try.
Perfectly explained. Iha is all over Melon Collie and Adore. Once you tune your ear to his textures it’s instantly recognisable. Corgan post Iha stopped writing beautiful music. Zwan, especially some of the tracks that didn’t make the record were great but it and everything since has lacked that extra 10% of beauty in the guitar work. Thanks for articulating it so well.
@Tastes Like Music My friends and I were invited to a record company listening party for Zeitgeist shortly before the album came out. A fun, surreal experience! I think I gave it 3.5 stars at the time. This was a few months before seeing the band half a dozen times at the ill-fated Fillmore Residency in San Francisco. Billy was not a happy camper to put it mildly (see the great dvd If All Goes Wrong). Taylor Swift isn't the first artist to play 3.5 hour shows, either That's about what we got every night the Fillmore....Two of the best songs from the Zeitgeist sessions weren't even on the album ("Stellar" and the acoustic ballad "Zeitgeist". Jimmy played acoustic guitar on "Zeitgeist" at the Fillmore). Billy also got a lot of flak for releasing different 'flavors' of the album (The standard album w/different bonus tracks for each flavor. I have three or four variations). Poor Billy (lol).
This is probably my favorite listography from you guys. My only complaint is how low Gish is ranked. It's my clear number 3. Rhinoceros, I am One, Siva, Crush and Daydream are all amazing!
Massive SP fan here (second or third favorite band). Joe you broke my heart with the Adore ranking!...lol. It's one of my all time favorites. I stop counting it as Pumpkins really after Zeitgeist - which to me is the peak of Corgan's sound and songwriting ability. I do like Oceania and Monuments but after that I can't really listen to them. Shiny and oh so Bright is bad - massive disappointment...I stopped after that. 1. Adore - 5 stars 2. Siamese Dream - 5 stars 3. Mellon Collie - 5 stars 4. Machina/The Machine of Gods - 4.5 stars 5. Pisces Iscariot - 4.5 stars 6. Gish - 4 stars 7. Zeitgeist - 4 stars 8. Machina II - 3.5 stars 9. Monuments to an Elegy - 3.5 stars 10. Oceania - 3.5 stars 11. Shiny and oh so Bright - 2 stars
Anyone else find it difficult to get through Mellon Collie? It feels like there's this sagging darkness throughout the record that makes it a bit of a slog to get through...but the standout tracks are undeniably incredible
@@TastesLikeMusic Yeah, I imagine that's a perfect description of how you feel about Adore lol definitely seems much more fitting for that album than Mellon Collie.
Big Pumpkins fan here and have been waiting for this video but most say I am very surprised by the pics here. I don't understand and wasn't expecting all of the love for Zeitgeist and Oceania. I also thought Machina 1 was ranked much lower than expected. Siamese Dream is a five star record any day of the week. What more do you want? Ha
Huh? Kramzer has Machina I on #7. That was very generous, I think, for a forgettable album like this. The only thing that comes to my mind when thinking of it is the line „radio… radio…. Play my favorite song…“.
here we go with a bakers dozen 13 cyr 2.0 + 12 monuments to an elegy 2.5 11 ocenia 3.0- 10 adore3.0- 9 atum [ a rock opera in 3 parts] 3.0+ 8shiny and o so bright 3.0+ 7 machina [the machines of god] 3.5- 6zeitgeist 3.5 + 5 pisces escariot 3.5 4 machina ii [the friends and enemies of modern music] 3.5 3 mellon collie and infinite sadness 4.5- 2 siamese dreams 4.5 1 gish 4.5 1 and 2 are so close and i thought siamese may have passed gish , but gish was my fav forever , so i kept it another thought, jimmy chamberlin is a amazing drummer [wow] fun listo and looking forward to songs video cheers!! 🐯🐯
I had the same first 3 .. hard to pick another above them. Going to drive to Denver to see Yankees on Sunday ..wanted to go to whole series but all hotels are booked Friday & Saturday for miles as Taylor is in town for 2 shows.
@@davidellis5141 oh wow nice, have a good time, that darn taylor, you know im not yankee fan, but would have been interesting to see judge in that stadium , lol
I really think Machina is among their best works, it still sounds like the 90s pumpkins for the most part to me, good list though guys Are any of you into Jimmy Eat World? Would be dope to see you rank their albums some time, they've become one of my fav bands
Honestly blew my mind when Joe put Adore as his least favorite but ATUM as a 4/5. I love Adore and did not like ATUM at all Great episode tho guys! Love your stuff
1. Mellon Collie
2. Siamese Dream
3. Adore
4. Gish
I adore ADORE album.
I abhor it
#1 Machina
#2 Mellon Collie
#3 Siamese Dream
#4 Machina II
#5 Adore
Every person here lost all respect for you when you said you would cut thru the eyes of ruby. Blasphemy...
100%. That was my favorite track on the entire album.
Everyone loves that song but to me it’s a worse version of Porcelina
Wrap me up in always...
Drag me in with maybes...
Come on, dude! That's pure poetry! How do you cut Thru the Eyes of Ruby? The heck?!
Ok thanks for that. You saved me a long watch. Was about to watch the whole video but if one of them said that about one of my favourite pumpkins songs of all time - yeah I’m out 😂
It's one of the best pumpkin tracks period
The Smashing Pumpkins were one of the first rock bands I really loved as a kid (and the first one that felt like my own band). I was a preteen in the mid 90s when Mellon Collie came out and I was all about them for awhile. Then by the time Adore came around I loved the singles but never ended up getting the album at the time. Then after that it seemed like everything I heard about their albums was negative and so I just stuck with the older stuff I already loved. That was a mistake. Going through their discography for this dive was quite a revelation, I found so much to really enjoy and love. I'm still trying to finalize a song list because there are so many great songs. I regret not checking out those later albums until now but glad I finally have.
It seems I may still be under appreciating Oceania, I'll have to give that one a revisit.
12) Monuments to an Elegy - 3 (6.3)
11) Shiny and Oh So Bright - 3.5 (6.7)
10) Cyr - 3.5 (6.7)
9) Machina II - 3.5 (7.0)
8) Oceania - 3.5 (7.3)
7) ATUM - 3.5 (7.5)
6) Gish - 4 (8.0)
5) Zeitgeist - 4 (8.1)
4) Machina - 4 (8.1)
3) Adore - 4 (8.2)
2) Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness - 4.5 (9.2)
1) Siamese Dream - 5 (9.5)
1. Mellon Collie
2. Adore
3. Siamese dream
4. Gish
5. Zeitgeist
6. Machina
7. Oceania
8. Mountains to an elegy
9. ATUM
10. Machina II
11. Aghori Mhori Mei
12. CYR
13. Shiny and oh so bright
Landed here via the Smashing Pumpkins reddit - so, yeah - that says a lot about how much I love SP. They're my band. Great list.
I'm now off to delve into your guys' other videos for bands I'm less versed in, as I really found your analysis without the cloud of nostalgia refreshing. While it's impossible for me to remotely consider putting Shiny, Cyr or Atum above Machina or Machina 2, the fact that Zeitgeist and Oceania trump some of the old albums is a very interesting take, and one that I really appreciated hearing the take from guys who don't have the nostalgia fog.
Thanks for stopping by!
The irony embedded in the singing on Today and the gorgeous Soma with it's building intensity made me an instant fan. They were at the zenith of the alt rock mountain at the time of Bullet with Butterfly Wings - I remember seeing the video for that song back in the day and thinking they were at that moment pretty much the hottest band in the world and could do no wrong. I, like many others I'm sure, hung on with a sense of diminishing returns through Adore and Machina and then moved on. Billy is a great front man and guitarist. Thank you for covering.
So excited to watch this video! Smashing Pumpkins are one of my Top 5 bands of all time!
Bold predictions for Hall & Oates week:
1. Kramzer will put the Christmas album at his #1 spot.
2. Jason will say “You Make my Dreams” is one of their worst songs.
3. Joe will reveal Daryl Hall is his uncle.
4. Jason will reveal John Oates is his father.
John oates is his mum
Great list guys! Mellon Collie is probably my favorite album of all time. Nostalgia likely paints this, as this was my first album I received. I listened to this beast incessantly but like Joe said, it is even better than you remember it. Insane diversity from the relentless heaviness of Jellybelly to the heavenly harps of Cupid de Locke.
My ranking
1. Mellon Collie-5/5
2. Siamese Dream-4.5/5
3. Adore-4.5/5
4. Machina 1-4/5
5. Machina 2- 4/5
6. Atum- 4/5
7. Oceania-4/5
8. Gish-3.5/5
9. Monuments-3.5/5
10. Zeitgeist-3/5
11. CYR-3/5
12. Shiny-2.5/5
mellon collie and the infinite friggin sadness
Great to have you guys back with a terrific overview of a modern classic band! We missed you guys, and missed these high quality reviews/ insights! Hope cadence gets back to normal. Pretty cool group, always interesting voice/point of view from Billy C, and some killer riffs. Best and cheers, JPE
Pleasantly surprised by your high placements of Oceania - it’s a great record. A bit disappointed by the low placements of Machina, it’s even better imo. My list:
1. MCIS 5/5
2. Siamese Dream 5/5
3. Machina 1&2 4,5/5
4. Adore 4,5/5
5. Oceania 4/5
6. Zeitgeist 4/5
7. Gish 4/5
8. CYR 3,5/5
9. ATUM 3/5
10. Monuments to an Elegy 2,5/5
11. Shiny and Oh So Bright 2,5/5
Oceania a "great" record, yet you only gave it a "very good" rating.
Thanks guys you made my summer. This is my fav band of the 90s and one my my favs of all time.
My. Rank:
1 MCIS
2 SD
3 Gish
4 Adore
5 Machina I
6 ATUM
7 Oceania
8 Machina II
9 Zeitgeist
10 Shiny and Oh So B
11 CYR
12 Monuments to an Elegy
Great work once again guys!👌👌👌 Was not ever really into the SPs but after watching this and Rick Beato’s recent (great) interview with Billy I REALLY need to explore their work!!
Awesome video guys. My favorite for sure is Siamese Dream. This is the one album of theirs that I have a very strong connection to. It’s big and epic and perfect. Favorite song on it is Hummer.
I desperately need a queens of the Stone Age one Loll. I feel like between the 3 of you guys the difference in ratings and overall debate would be perfect 👍 SO glad u guys did smashing pumpkins:)
Queens rule
I like QOTSA a lot. I’ve heard Kram doesn’t like them?
Thank you for getting me into Smashing Pumpkins! I knew a couple of their big hits, but never bothered to listen to much more than that, but I've been going through their albums now and it's awesome! Probably never would have done it without your channel. Great insights from you guys about the albums which made the listening experience more interesting as well!
I'm a huge Pumpkins fan so I've been anticipating this, and you did not disappoint, good reviews and Pumpkins appreciation aplenty (apart from the preposterous Joe/Adore anomaly of course 😂). Thanks for an excellent episode.
I've never listened to a Smashing Pumpkins album, but I'll give this video a watch because you three know how to break down an album and make it interesting. Good to see you guys back!!!!!
Nothing would ever beat Siamese Dream for me but I found so much great stuff revisiting them this time. Gish and Oceania especially surprised me in how well they held up! Great work.
Lemme go ahead and drop that like button just fo the appreciation y’all FINALLY did pumpkins 🤙
1. Siamese - 5/5
2. MCIS - 5/5
3. Gish - 4.5/5
4. Adore - 4/5
5. Machina - 4/5
6. Zeitgeist - 3.5/5
7. Machina 2 - 3/5
8. Oceania - 3/5
9. Shiny - 3/5
10. Monuments - 2.5/5
11. Cyr - 2/5
12. ATUM - 2/5
Pisces - 5/5
Zwan - 4.5/5
Aeroplane - 4/5
Judas - 3.5/5
Teargarden - 3.5/5
“Mayonnaise soaked in fuzz” I found that in my fridge once.
It’s called an insane amount of mold 😅
Ooof! 😖
Sweet, clever answer, brotha - albeit more than a little... _nauseating!!_ 🤢
That dude on the bottom is INSANE. Adore is one of the greatest records ever!
Please get help
The greatest records ever are tight albums. A overly long and bloated 16 track album where most of the songs are forgettable isnt one of the greatest records ever.
Instant subscribe. What a cracking video. Love a lot of the discussion here. Adore being bottom is just mental but apart from that really interesting points. Well done guys,
Thanks for finally covering SP! I know it would be quite a feat to get through but man I would love to see you guys go through the Prince catalog
I would rank them
Siamese Dream (9/10)
Mellon Collie (8.5/10)
Adore (7.75/10)
Gish (7.5/10)
Atum (6.5/10)
Oceania (6.25/10)
Machina (6.25/10)
Monuments to an Elegy (6/10)
Cyr (6/10)
Zeitgeist (5.75/10)
Shiny and Oh So Bright (5.25/10)
Machina II (5/10)
Amazing list. Mellon Collie was one of my favorite albums for a very long time. Bought that and Pisces Iscariot and was hooked. Kinda lost it around Oceania, but I’ve come back and seen how good the later stuff is.
@@ghost_malliked Perfect and Ava Adore, but I kinda just stopped buying cds in like 00-01. Idk tho.
I almost cried when Jason talked about Mellon Collie.... i mean what an album.
Adore at the bottom is a perfect showing of how amazing the Pumpkins' musical pallette is. They've reached a diverese audience with the soft and the punchy sounds respectively. Thanks for doing this ranking. Also thank you all for honest opinions.
I've been watching this channel for quite a long time now, I love taking the (usually) weekly music journey with you all. This is the episode I've honestly been waiting for since the beginning. The discography with my all time favorite album "Siamese Dream". It is the album i connect with in a way that i connect with no other. I remember the day i bought it - i remember how i felt the first time i heard it on my headphones that night, and i get that same feeling listening to it now. I know every lyric, and note, and constantly anticipate its twists and turns and oddities with every listen. The Fuzz guitar, the dreamy guitar, the clean guitar, the distorted guitar - its a guitar album to beat most all guitar albums. But the next layer to this album is the lyrics/vocal delivery - there's something to it. It has a way of sounding so personal, and direct. It is a complete experience - and it just keeps on giving. Some may just consider it a strong 90's album, but i consider it a example of a perfect album - the songs, the delivery, the imagery, the recording, the production - its a masterclass of doing it 100% right in my book.
01 Siamese Dream
02 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
03 Gish
04 Adore
05 Machina/The Machines of God
06 Zeitgeist
07 Machina II/The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music
08 Oceania
09 Monuments to an Elegy
10 Cyr
11 Atum: A Rock Opera in Three Acts
12 Shiny and Oh So Bright, Vol. 1 / LP: No Past. No Future. No Sun.
That's absolutely correctly but ifd put Atum in front of Oceania.
Solid list. I don't get how anyone could put any of the nu-Pumpkins albums above Adore or Gish.
Adore, last. Gish, second last.
Insane. INSANE.
1. Mellon Collie 4.5
2. Siamese Dream 4.5
3. Adore 4
4. Gish 3.5
5. Machina 3.5
6. Oceania 3
Mellon Collie was the first Pumpkins album I had and listened to it almost daily for a long time. It is a special album for me.
I haven't really listened to their newer albums (after Oceania) apart from a few songs. But I think I will now, after watching this video. I'll probably even revisit Zeitgeist that I was very disappointed with when it was released.
Jeeeesus, some of these rankings hurt! I thought Joe's Adore at 12 was rough but then Jason comes in with an 11 ranking for Machina II and then Kramzer comes in with a #11 Gish??? I don't even know what to think anymore, I need a beer
I still think Gish at 11 is more contrarian pick than Adore at 12.
@@Chaz4543 They're definitely pretty head to head - in all honesty I was listing these as they happened the Adore thing was just my first taste of the madness, lol
Kramzer is so right about Bodies. Another great video, love these lists. Been a viewer since near the beginning and still waiting on my Prince list ;-)
Hey, thanks for finally releasing this listography from my favorite band! Although I was surprised by some of the picks, I love how honest and varied your opinions are. That's what makes this such a great channel! Siamese Dream is a masterpiece. Not a weak track on there. It came out when I was in high school and will always be my favorite album. I enjoy all their 90's material though, even Adore, ha! I want to give a special shoutout to Pisces Iscariot, which is one of their best albums. I know you didn't include it because it's a b-sides album. Lastly, James did co-write several of the tracks in the early days, including Mayonaise, so he was involved more than you think. Thanks for all your insights and the overall positive assessment of the band. You guys rock!
Billy did a really good job in the awkward post Zwan years of convincing people he wrote everything. He clearly didn’t, you can hear Iha parts all over Melon Collie and Adore. You can seem him recording in the studio in readily available videos. He has a very distinctive ear for texture and melody, because you can hear it on APC as well. The number of Corgan nuthuggers on these comments is embarrassing. When Billy and Jimmy started Zwan, which was amazing, you could hear the lack of beauty in the songs. They were more straightforward texturally, Same applied to Billy’s solo stuff. Still good, but missing something. Then when Jimmy left, look what happened to Oceania and Monuments. Zero iconic drum moments. The Pumpkins is Billy and Jimmy at a minimum and ideally James too.
Sorry Joe, but as a Pumpkins fan for 30 years I adore Adore and would rank it as no. 3 only bettered by Siamese and Mellon Collie. Interesting video but, thanks!
Impressed you included Machina 2, i wasn't expecting that. I missed Zeitgeist, so will have to check out that one. Probably made a mistake by believing the critics at the time.
I know you guys don't include compilations, but maybe you could have at least mentioned Pisces Iscariot and the Aeroplane Flies High Box set, as they are pretty much essential listening for Pumpkins fans.
Stuart
I’m so glad you did the smashing pumpkins list. definitely one my all-time favorite bands easily. I finally saw them last weekend for the first time one of best shows I’ve ever seen. I took my 15-year-old daughter her first concert and she was blown away. I love every single one of their albums. There is nothing below 3.5 stars in my opinion.
1. Mellon collie.
2. Siamese dream
3. Zeitgeist.
4. Gish
5. Oceana.
6. Machina I
7.Monument.
8.Adore
9.Machina II
10.Atum
11. Shiny and all so bright
12.Cyr
Great video! Kramzer having Adore at number #2 makes me want to go back and have a listen to it sometime.
Love the classic Zeppelin shirt Joe! Congrats on your new daughter 😁
Glad you 3 are such great fans. That voice from outer space. Totally love it!
Dang! I didn’t think Gish would rank so low. I haven’t delved into everything Smashing Pumpkins but in a weird way Gish is sometimes my favorite Pumpkins record. It’s just so shoegaze and what Jason said about merging 80s alternative with 70s arena rock is incredible. I would even say the fact that Gish was a stepping stone for Siamese Dream even improves the experience for me. Siamese Dream is definitively my number 1 but some days Gish leads me astray in the best of ways
@@ghost_mallabsolutely right
Personally love Corgan's vocals on Zeitgeist, thought the much smoother singing style really suited that album (much as the much rougher singing style really suited Melon Collie).
1. Mellon Collie - Not perfect but has about twenty perfect songs, which is far beyond any other album. Yes, this is the greatest album of all time.
2. Adore - Nearly perfect. One of the best albums I've ever heard.
3. Siamese Dream - Also nearly perfect. Behind Adore because the ratio of perfect songs to really good songs is a bit lower. But this is phenomenal.
4. Machina - Good album but a huge drop from Adore. This is an album made by humans, Billy Corgan is no longer a God.
5. Oceania - Every song is decent but nothing like they were when at their peak.
6. Machina ii - Diet Machina. Has some decent songs like Lucky 13 and Home, but is mostly a step down from Machina.
7-9. Zeitgeist, Gish, Monuments - There's only one good song on each of these albums. In comparison the lackluster Machina and Oceania sounds incredible. The good songs: I absolutely love 7 Shades, a small piece of peak Pumpkins in 2007, I was shocked. Crush is wonderful. And Being Beige is a good one.
Haven't heard the rest, I don't know if I want that much disappointment in my life.
Nothing in the history of music has been as disappointing as Adore.
@@TastesLikeMusic That is so false...
Mellon Collie (1995) -5 stars (10)
Siamese Dream (1993)- 5 stars (10)
Zeitgeist (2007) - 4.5 stars (9)
Adore (1998) 4.5 stars (8.9)
Oceania (2012) 4.5 stars (8.7)
Gish (1991) - 4 stars (8.3)
Machina II/ The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music (2000) - 4 stars (8)
Monuments to An Elegy (2014) 4 stars (8)
Machina/The Machines of God (2000) - 3.5 stars (7.7.)
Shiney and Oh So Bright (2018) 3 stars
Atum (2023) 2.5 stars (5.8)
Cyr (2020) - 2 stars (4.5)
Appreciate your work on this post, but cmon, you're generous with Zeitgeist over Adore and Monuments over Machina 😂 from what perspective could this be coming from? (You started being a fan AFTER 2000...?
@@thenewholistic well I was born in 95 :D so yeah
@@saraorsara2835 👋 hey hey, I totally agree. Love this era of music
Heeeeey!!! Welcome back guys, missed you.
Not a huge fan of Smashing Pumpkins so will just kick back and watch the fall out with a cup of tea and a bowl of granola (it's breakfast time here!) 😂
Cheers!
I also dig Corgan's voice because he doesn't sound like a human. I can easily imagine his voice belonging to some kind of lovesick fantasy monster which adds to the immersion. Plus it's versatile, it cuts through the distortion of the rock cuts and it sells the other more softer styles.
Thirty-Three is absolutely underrated. I loved it when it was a single and always ever since. It's still exhilarating to hear it even now, made a point of playing it twice in my car only yesterday haha.
The local active rock station in Boston at the time didnt play Thirty-Three when it was a single because it was too soft. They played Here is No Why instead. They did that with a few other huge 90s alternative bands when they released softer singles. Yeah it was lame but it was a active rock/mainstream rock station and not a alternative station so they must have had permission to do that.
@@Chaz4543Referring to… WAAF? WBCN? Providence’s 94.1 WHJY?
@@RealJeffTidwell AAF. BCN was the alternative rock station. They played some of the same bands/music but they played mostly different ones.
1. Mellon Collie - 5*
2. Siamese Dream - 4.5*
3. Gish - 4*
4. Machina - 4*
5. Zeitgeist - 4*
6. Oceania - 3*
7. Adore - 3*
This is where the bottom drops out
8. Monuments to an Elergy - 2*
9. Shiny and Oh So Bright - 2*
10. Cyr - 1.5*
11. Atum - 1.5*
Gish at 11😮 kramzer ! I thought you said you’re a pumpkins fan lol
Great video guys, awesome to see a Pumpkins ranking, definitely an interesting band with some amazing albums. Funny to see a video where both Kram and Joe had horrendous placements of Gish by Kram and Adore by Joe, but Jason surprisingly wasn’t controversial at all like he normally is. Zeitgeist is criminally underrated, I love that album because it’s a return to straightforward catchy heavy rock. ATUM should have been a double album, if it was it would easily move up to 7th on my list. My ranking below.
ALBUM RANKING:
1. Siamese Dream (1993) - ★★★★★
2. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995) - ★★★★★
3. Gish (1991) - ★★★★½
4. Adore (1998) - ★★★★½
5. Zeitgeist (2007) - ★★★★
6. Oceania (2012) - ★★★★
7. MACHINA (2000) - ★★★½
8. MACHINA II (2000) - ★★★½
9. Monuments to an Elegy (2014) - ★★★½
10. Shiny and Oh So Bright Vol. 1 / LP: No Past. No Future. No Sun. (2018) - ★★★½
11. ATUM (2023) - ★★★½
12. CYR (2020) - ★★★
RATING SCALE:
★★★★★ - Masterpiece
★★★★½ - Excellent
★★★★ - Great
★★★½ - Very Good
★★★ - Good
★★½ - Okay
★★ - Bad
★½ - Very Bad
★ - Awful
½ - Terrible
Great timing because I just recently did a Pumpkins deep dive
12 Atum - 2 stars
11 Cyr - 2 stars
10 Shiny and Oh So Bright - 2.5 stars
9 Monuments to an Elegy - 3 stars
8.Oceania - 3.5 stars
7 Machina II - 3.5 stars
6 Machina - 3.5 stars
5 Adore - 4 stars
4 Zeitgeist - 4 stars
3 Gish - 4 stars
2.Siamese Dream - 5 stars
1 Mellon Collie - 5 stars
Lit some candles and drew a nice bath for this ep and then Joe’s first take made me spit out all my wine cooler on myself
I do not adore anything about it. - Joe
Dont know what country youre from but I havent heard the term "wine cooler" used in a long long time. Are those like those Seagram Escapes type of drinks ? I guess those would be the modern or current version of a wine cooler.
Great reviews guys - I didn’t listen to any albums after machina - just the singles and the Zwan album but will definitely go back to them. I listened to zeitgeist and Oceania after watching
I am with Joe on Siamese dream - but I have both Siamese and melon color at 5 stars
The most controversial thing about the reviews was not Joe putting adore at the bottom (even though this was pretty controversial) it was Kramser saying he would take through the eyes of ruby off melon collie! One of my favourite songs on the album
Got into Smashing Pumpkins when Gish came out. A friend had it on cassette tape and blew my mind with it. Pumpkins were really important for me throughout the 90s and then I immediately stopped... which is my story with a lot of 90s bands! I do like all 4 of the 90s albums quite a bit. My top 4 (because I'm not familiar enough with the rest to rank):
1. Siamese Dream - After falling in love with Gish, it was really satisfying and epic in general to watch that star rise, and to hear those guitars thicken. This album is a masterpiece and one of my favorite all time guitar sounds... and a formative emotional musical touchstone.
2. Gish - We California teens loved the GROOVE at the turn of the decade. I got way into Gish when it was pretty new and loved the loud soft dynamics and the jammy guitars. I was very much into groovy hard rock psychedelia which was a cornerstone of pre grunge alternative (at least, if you lived in California I guess), and Gish was a perfect example of it. I probably give this the two spot out of nostalgia, but it still does it for me.
3. Mellon Collie - Ehhh... so here is the thing, I couldn't buy everything I wanted as a teenage music lover. I had to make hard decisions. What I'm trying to say ashamedly is that I didn't like 1979 or Tonight, so didn't buy the album. I was a slave to radio and MTV for hearing music and those two songs in heavy rotation did not make me want to listen to more of their music. I did like Bullet and Butterfly Wings and Zero well enough but... All 4 songs were so different from what came before that I didn't feel the need to follow them were they were going. Since then, I've totally listened to the whole thing a few times and obviously see that I was wrong and that its great. I'm sure its better than Gish but... I've listened to Gish more, so there it is.
I’m here to defend Machina. It’s overlong but the crunchy death-gaze vibe suits them and some of the melodies are sublime. Granted not top tier Pumpkins but I think it’s too ragged on. I’d place it fourth
Excellent job on the Pumpkins!
Would love to hear your ranked lists for Slowdive, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, and Nine Inch Nails. I’m sure it’s irritating to have these “requests,” but just thought I’d put it out there.
Sounds like I should check out Oceania - the Pumpkins had kind of fallen off my radar in this era (post-Zeitgeist), probably because I knew that JC wasn't playing with Billy. Maybe i missed a hidden gem? Thanks for this - it's what these kinds of videos are good for.
Not including Pisces Iscariot because it's not technically an album is a shame given it's better than half of their catalog.
It was good. But I disagree. - Joe
haha excusing atum explains why all the weezer trashing from you guys… i guess we don’t see that much eye to eye but it’s nice to have such lengthy music discussions
This was a really good discussion. What gets me is the diversity of opinions here. With the exception of Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie which are generally loved almost anything goes for the rest. Ican see Joes point about Adore as back in the day when I was a big fan of the band (20 years ago !!!) Adore was the beginning of the end back then. Its only been recently I have started to listen again to his works. But of all the comments made I really agree with Krams reason for disliking ATUM as it was too long. In fact that really is Billy Corgans greatest incapability. The inability to distinguish between a great tune that needs to be nurtured and a mediocre tune that should just be allowed to die and be buried. His recording history shows that.
But anyhow I am pleAsed to see that they still can put out great tunes. Not with the consistency that made a great album as in the old days but there are still humdingers being produced. Some might disagree there (or to more accurate some will disagree) but I'm sure.
As for my album rankings- beyond the first two its all subject to change- but here we go:
Siamese Dream (1993)- 5 stars (9)
Mellon Collie (1995) (8)
Oceania (2012) (7)
Machina/The Machines of God (2000) -(6.5)
Shiney and Oh So Bright (2018) (6)
Zeitgeist (2007) -(5.5)
Adore (1998) -(5.5)
Gish (1991) -(5) To think I used to love this....but I must be getting old
Atum (2023) (4)
Cyr (2020) - 4)
Monuments to An Elegy (2014) (3.5)
Machina II/ The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music (2000) - (3)
I share your sense of whiplash regarding the oscillating quality of Corgan's songwriting. I think his inconsistencies are most evident on Mellon Collie, which is a frustratingly uneven album to my ears. I still gave it 4.5 stars because the best tunes are legit classics, but I could live without almost half the songs.
@@AbbeyRoadkill1 I tend to agree- it was about this time we got all B sides and extras on top of a very long album. He could not help himself. He did not employ the razor much after that.
Kramzer mentioned how their music can make you feel drunk. There is a disorientating aspect to their sound which sets them apart from their peers. When the guys made their best grunge bands video, there were four bands they put above Pumpkins. I suppose the argument can be made the Pumpkins are less grunge than the others because they expanded outside of that label. But the grunge era Pumpkins, which encompasses their output up to Mellon Collie, is as good l, if not better, than Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana, or Alice in Chains. Amazing guitar rock with an emotional depth the other bands don't possess
Such a good video. Thanks guys and listen to the whole thing here’s my ranking and I’m gonna leave off some albums because I haven’t really listened to them in depth, but here it goes
Number one Siamese dream
Number two melancholy
Number three Oceania
Number four Atum
Number five Machina I
Number six adore
Number seven monuments
Number eight CYR
Wow, Adore at #12 right off the bat... What a way to begin.
Yep, noice lol
Adore is my third favorite album of all time behind Pet Sounds and Blonde on Blonde.
Most of these albums have never left my listening rotation - EVER. But, here's my rank
1 - Siamese Dream
2 - Mellon Collie
3 - Gish
4 - Machina
5 - Oceania
6 - Zeitgeist
7 - Adore
8 - Shiny and Bright
9 - ATUM
10 - Cyr
11 - Moments
12 - Never have been able to hear Machina 2
you haven't heard machina ii?
@@swarler I have not - only bits here and there
Cool video, try ranking the Manic Street Preachers albums.
One of my favorite bands! Mellon Collie and Siamese are 5/5 star records for me and I love Adore, Gish, and even have a soft spot for Machina and Oceania. They have a few duds, but I think they are more hit than miss.
Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie are enough Pumpkins for me, but would have both around 4 stars. Corgans voice grates after a while.
a short while
Agree with your comment, although i rate Adore as a pretty solid album. Yes, Corgan's vocal whine isn't my cup of tea either but do check out his live acoustic version of Tonight Tonight. His vocal seems to work really well when it's just him and his acoustic guitar.
@@raithrover1976 corgans voice isn’t the only reason. I’m pretty old , Siamese Dream came out when I was almost 30. The later bands in my life I pick out a couple of the best albums and move on. I didn’t grow with these the way I did with every Zeppelin or Stones or Neil young or Bowie album when they were coming out.
love these ranked vids, interesting to catch up with what these bands have been doing since i last listened to them pumpkins are great, and despite him being a bit of an oddball at times i respect corgan for sticking with it. we were discussing vedders many attempts to sabotage pearl jams commercial success, and really when you look at the grunge/alt bands of this era:
pearl jam: vedder sabotaging
stone pilots: scott self destruction
alice in chains: layne self destruction
soundgarden: self destructed
nirvana: kurt self destruction
hole: courtney love endless hot mess
in a scene where it felt like every band was doing its best to implode the fact that the pumpkins have kept pushing on through and actually listening to some of this new stuff, theyre actually still making really good music, got to hand it to corgan.
but my god, someone get this man an editor. triple album? just stop already. im all about the 8-12 track album.
Zeitgeist
Mellon Collie
Machina
Siamese Dream
Adore
Gish
the rest
Listening to you guys rank the pumpkins, especially you Joe makes me want to listen to our lady peace ;)
I do love some OLP. - Joe
Perhaps the best "discovery" for me so far after watching your videos for a couple of years.
The 90s is far from my favorite decade for music, but The Smashing Pumpkins, with their sincerity, strong melodies and ambitions are like a breath of fresh air amongst all the cool ironic noisy slacker nonsense.
12. Zeitgeist (2007) ★★★
11. Machina II (2000) ★★★
10. Machina (2000) ★★★
9. Shiny and Oh So Bright (2018) ★★★½
8. Cyr (2020) ★★★½
7. Monuments to an Elegy (2014) ★★★½
6. Atum (2023) ★★★★
5. Oceania (2012) ★★★★
4. Adore (1998) ★★★★½
3. Gish (1991) ★★★★½
2. Siamese Dream (1993) ★★★★★
1. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995) ★★★★★
★★★★★ - Masterpiece
★★★★½ - Really great
★★★★ - Great
★★★½ - Really good
★★★ - Good
★★½ - OK
★★ - Bad
★½ - Really bad
★ - Awful
½ - The worst
What does James Iha bring to the band? While 90-95% of the Pumpkins sound exists due to Corgan and Chamberlain, once you listen to Iha’s 2012 album Look To The Sky (released in the same year as the Corgan/Pumpkins album Oceania) you might sit up and think “OH! I GET IT!”. While the songcraft is not on par with Corgan’s, it is a bit of a surprise to be able to identify that element that may seem insignificant but is actually quite integral to the overall flavour of the Pumpkins classic sound. Has Corgan succeeded without Iha? Yes. But it could be argued that without the carrot or dash of sugar or whatever ingredient Iha adds to the pot…well, this album reveals why Corgan perhaps prefers to keep Iha in his band. I actually like to listen to both Oceania and Look To The Sky together to get a bit of those Mellon Collie vibes. Give it a try.
Perfectly explained. Iha is all over Melon Collie and Adore. Once you tune your ear to his textures it’s instantly recognisable. Corgan post Iha stopped writing beautiful music. Zwan, especially some of the tracks that didn’t make the record were great but it and everything since has lacked that extra 10% of beauty in the guitar work. Thanks for articulating it so well.
@Tastes Like Music My friends and I were invited to a record company listening party for Zeitgeist shortly before the album came out. A fun, surreal experience! I think I gave it 3.5 stars at the time. This was a few months before seeing the band half a dozen times at the ill-fated Fillmore Residency in San Francisco. Billy was not a happy camper to put it mildly (see the great dvd If All Goes Wrong). Taylor Swift isn't the first artist to play 3.5 hour shows, either That's about what we got every night the Fillmore....Two of the best songs from the Zeitgeist sessions weren't even on the album ("Stellar" and the acoustic ballad "Zeitgeist". Jimmy played acoustic guitar on "Zeitgeist" at the Fillmore). Billy also got a lot of flak for releasing different 'flavors' of the album (The standard album w/different bonus tracks for each flavor. I have three or four variations). Poor Billy (lol).
I agree with you guys on Zeitgeist, very underappreciated.
This is probably my favorite listography from you guys. My only complaint is how low Gish is ranked. It's my clear number 3. Rhinoceros, I am One, Siva, Crush and Daydream are all amazing!
Relieved to see none of you pissing on them. There early - mid nineties stuff is an essential part of my teenage years - love those albums
Massive SP fan here (second or third favorite band). Joe you broke my heart with the Adore ranking!...lol. It's one of my all time favorites. I stop counting it as Pumpkins really after Zeitgeist - which to me is the peak of Corgan's sound and songwriting ability. I do like Oceania and Monuments but after that I can't really listen to them. Shiny and oh so Bright is bad - massive disappointment...I stopped after that.
1. Adore - 5 stars
2. Siamese Dream - 5 stars
3. Mellon Collie - 5 stars
4. Machina/The Machine of Gods - 4.5 stars
5. Pisces Iscariot - 4.5 stars
6. Gish - 4 stars
7. Zeitgeist - 4 stars
8. Machina II - 3.5 stars
9. Monuments to an Elegy - 3.5 stars
10. Oceania - 3.5 stars
11. Shiny and oh so Bright - 2 stars
I know it's not a proper studio album, but I'd be interested to hear where you'd rank Pisces Iscariot compared to the main list of albums?
Somewhere in the middle. - Joe
Anyone else find it difficult to get through Mellon Collie? It feels like there's this sagging darkness throughout the record that makes it a bit of a slog to get through...but the standout tracks are undeniably incredible
I feel that way about Adore. - Joe
@@TastesLikeMusic Yeah, I imagine that's a perfect description of how you feel about Adore lol definitely seems much more fitting for that album than Mellon Collie.
Atum isn't a weird spelling of autumn. Atum is an ancient Egyptian god.
Big Pumpkins fan here and have been waiting for this video but most say I am very surprised by the pics here.
I don't understand and wasn't expecting all of the love for Zeitgeist and Oceania. I also thought Machina 1 was ranked much lower than expected. Siamese Dream is a five star record any day of the week. What more do you want? Ha
Huh? Kramzer has Machina I on #7. That was very generous, I think, for a forgettable album like this. The only thing that comes to my mind when thinking of it is the line „radio… radio…. Play my favorite song…“.
Sounds like Kramzer's number 1 should have been Adore. It sounds like he went with his brain when he should have gone with his heart.
Seeing as though it was Joe's last place pick, it would have made for a very interesting range
Would you guys ever considering a NIN ranking? I think it would be fascinating to hear your thoughts because I know I have some hot takes!
here we go with a bakers dozen
13 cyr 2.0 +
12 monuments to an elegy 2.5
11 ocenia 3.0-
10 adore3.0-
9 atum [ a rock opera in 3 parts] 3.0+
8shiny and o so bright 3.0+
7 machina [the machines of god] 3.5-
6zeitgeist 3.5 +
5 pisces escariot 3.5
4 machina ii [the friends and enemies of modern music] 3.5
3 mellon collie and infinite sadness 4.5-
2 siamese dreams 4.5
1 gish 4.5
1 and 2 are so close and i thought siamese may have passed gish , but gish was my fav forever , so i kept it
another thought, jimmy chamberlin is a amazing drummer [wow]
fun listo and looking forward to songs video
cheers!!
🐯🐯
I had the same first 3 .. hard to pick another above them. Going to drive to Denver to see Yankees on Sunday ..wanted to go to whole series but all hotels are booked Friday & Saturday for miles as Taylor is in town for 2 shows.
@@davidellis5141 oh wow nice, have a good time, that darn taylor, you know im not yankee fan, but would have been interesting to see judge in that stadium , lol
@@bengalgangster Judge is on IR with a broken toe. Due back in a week.
@@davidellis5141 yah i know , thats why i said would have been ,
@bengalgangster Sorry 😬 .. It's 105 .. Brain 🧠 is malfunctioning 👍
I really think Machina is among their best works, it still sounds like the 90s pumpkins for the most part to me, good list though guys
Are any of you into Jimmy Eat World? Would be dope to see you rank their albums some time, they've become one of my fav bands
Honestly blew my mind when Joe put Adore as his least favorite but ATUM as a 4/5. I love Adore and did not like ATUM at all
Great episode tho guys! Love your stuff
Of the ones I owned as a teen:
4. Machina
3. Adore
2. Mellon Collie
1. Siamese Dream
Oh boy, right as I did my own Smashing Pumpkings discog listen.
Im a huge smashing pumpkins fan so excited to see how this goes
My first thought when the video started was that Joe got a mohawk haircut. Entertaining video, guys!
Here’s my ranking
12 Cyr
11 Shiny
10 Monuments
9 Atum
8 Zeitgeist
7 Oceania
6 Machina II
5 Adore
4 Machina I
3 Gish
2 Siamese Dream
1 Mellon Collie
13. Oh, So Shiny and Bright... 2.5
12. Cyr 2.5
11. Machina/ The Machines of God 2.5
10. Zeitgeist 3.0
9. Monuments to an Elegy 3.0
8. Atum 3.0
7. Machina II 3.5
6. Pisces Iscariot 3.5
5. Oceania 3.5
4. Adore 3.5
3. Siamese Dream 4.0
2. Gish 4.0
1. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness 4.5
good list, same top 3 💜💜
@@bengalgangster We have great taste. 👍🎶💜💜
Surprised no one mentioned the song Annie-Dog when talking about the Adore album great song
12. Cyr
11. Monuments To An Elegy
10. ATUM
9. Shiny & Oh So Bright
8. Zeitgeist
7. MACHINA II
6. Oceania
5. MACHINA
4. Gish
3. Adore
2. Mellon Collie
1. Siamese Dream