Two rounds made it through EXISTING bullet holes. The rest just barely broke the surface and can be seen sticking out (picture of this is in the video). So you’re wrong. A leather winter coat would stop the bullet at 100 yards.
I also bare some of the blame for the confusion because I didn't articulate this clearly in the video but used the picture to try and illustrate what I failed to properly articulate.
KowOneOhTwo they weren’t actually trying to hype it heavily. This happened accidentally because Ian and Karl from InRange happened into their booth last year. It happened again this year when they were asked to go away.
@@john-paulsilke893 You must not remember them heavily advertising it on several platforms and teasing how it was a revolutionary NFA work around and everyone trying to guess what the gimmick was going to be. There was a ton of buzz before SHOT even started last year.
Yes of course but they weren’t pushing to savvy industry types but neophytes and regular Joes much harder as well as the typical shills. The more honest reviewers like Mac weren’t asked about reviewing it until the In Range disaster. They can pull out of this but they need to be more trustworthy and act more openly. Giving the gun to Mac is a Very good start since he will tear it apart if it isn’t worthy and find it’s niche more honestly. This is a quality gun, it’s just not the next best thing going, (maybe).
I guess I was under a rock or up in Canada where SBR and SBS doesn’t exist. You can put stocks on anything and bayonets as well. Foregrips on handguns and anything that makes you gun bigger are all fine. In Canada we are afraid of small guns, not big ones. 20mm canons are considered hunting rifles as long as no explosive tips. This gun is a bizarre construct up here but it does seem like it could be useful for people who want to travel between states with their rifle but don’t like pistol braces, (too short and awkward and uncomfortable as well as being stupid). I understand pistol braces as we use pistol magazines in Canada so we can have capacity higher then 5rds so dumb laws are universal although I think everywhere other then NY and California are better in the USA for the most part.
Ummmm, I don’t think you fully read my comment. If you are into shortie shotguns and want to walk into a shop and 5mins later leave with a 12” shotgun then Canada is for you. If you want to be able to legally defend yourself with a handgun, probably you are gonna be looking a bit south for a home.
@@bleh8789 Won't be able to? Why? He or Karl could just buy or borrow one. You don't need permission from a company to review their publicly available product.
The reason it likes AP ammunition is because AP projectiles use a Tungsten core, Tungsten has a very high density of 19.25 grams/cm3 while lead has a density of only 11.34 grams/cm3. The higher density will always have a straighter flight because it is less affected by the air for a given weight of projectile. Hope this clarifies your question.
With the advent of the SBA3 and other braces, this gun is kind of already obsolete. I love them bending the rules, but I feel it sadly just didn't work as well as they hoped.
@Tyler Collins the bren 2 looks intresting , i didnt like a couple features on the bren 1 . It was fun shooting it in full auto at a range in reno though
For $1,200 you can buy a palmetto AR pistol for under $400, upgrade the trigger for another $100, pay your $200 dollar SBR stamp, buy a collapsible magpul stock and buffer kit another $100 and you would have an additional $400 to boot for dont know maybe a suppressor stamp and a suppressor can... skip the keyholes.
I can assure you they knew full well a non-spinning bullet was going to keyhole. I don't think they believed a straight rifling would have stopped that. The only reason it has a straight rifling in it is because if it were a smooth bore barrel it would fall under the jurisdiction of the NFA. So yes, it was designed to keyhole but they tried (and succeeded) in trying to get the tumbling round to fly somewhat true.
@@thegael1996 So far they are not answering questions about that round this year. They are being very defensive and giving none answers...I am going to have to guess that the round is not working right.
Hmm.. Maybe it needs a "compensator" with proper rifling in it? Kind of like an external choke? Not sure how that would play out legally though... I suppose as long as it actually acts as a compensator the fact that it has rifling in it is just incidental, right? (I am NOT a lawyer!)
For what price? It's got all American parts with a type 3 binary trigger installed... and it's NFA proof. It's 1400 msrp with premium trigger pack, 1100 without.
@@ravissary79 about $800~ by converting a PSA pistol to SBR. I don't need a HSLD kinda rifle. My home defense AR is an M&P15 Sport. It works quite well.
I like the idea of a tumbling bullet hitting a target with accuracy at 50yds. Wonder what the damage difference at 50yds between this and a CMMG 45ACP is. Would like to see drywall and jell tests. Great job on the videos and 2nd amendment support.
You gotta feel for Franklin armory. They come out with the reformation right after the atf basically gives everyone permission to shoulder braces. Then they come out with the Providence (right after Cali changes it’s definition of semi automatic) They try to innovate and get smacked in the face for it.
@@joshsquatch7474 true, but the pistol brace is on shakey legal ground. They are already being targeted in the newest ban legislation and would only require the ATF to change their opinion about them. This would require a congressional bill to redefine the legal definition of a "rifle".
@@ravissary79 Probably something to do with only pulling the trigger to fire another round, making the Providence and double action revolvers legally semi auto in Cali It sucks that the Providence got shot down like that, it's actually really clever in how it's semi auto but legally not
If I were Franklin Armory, I'd be pitching this as a home defense carbine for urban/suburban areas. As quickly as it bleeds velocity, it might be a better choice than a pistol or actual rifle, either one, from a safety standpoint.
just get a .300 blk braced AR pistol and run Lehigh Defense 78 grain high velocity close quarters ammo in it if you need a powerful home defense option in an urban area. It'll be much cheaper, much better to suppress and much more effective inside a home with no chance of over penetration, since it dumps its energy almost entirely in the target instead of bleeding it off before it ever even hits it.
Yeah. Like the special arrows they make for shooting birds out of trees. They have super intense fletching that bleeds velocity quickly so that it won't go too far if you miss.
Something makes me think this would benefit from spherical ammo. The lack of an oblong projectile may allow for better grouping, and even possibly reduce drag to increase range.
Yes! They cannot accept ANY criticism of their products. It's hilarious how defensive and standoffish they get, if you introduce an almost $2000 gun that keyholes it's already a failure.
Ian and Karl said that was a misunderstanding. The President of the company told the guys at the booth, "I want to talk to them personally". They passed it along incorrectly as "we arent allowed to talk to you." That was never supposed to be the message according to Inrange. I wasnt there tho.
I understand what they were trying to do here, but it's just not necessary, especially with all of the pistol braces available. If they would've released this like 10 years ago it may have been a hit.
I'm sure they started development on this project way before braces we're approved. They probably cried when the atf gave the approval and their golden goose got smoked. That's the only way I could see someone justifying the RnD to build something like this. It might have been a hit if braces we're not an option, which I'm sure was their thought.
@Wōtan That goes both ways. The ATF probably does not want to go to court, mostly because their language used to suggest pistol braces could be illegal when shouldered is based off of a tenuous definition of "manufacture", when they say that shouldering a brace is "manufacturing" a shoulder stock. Keep in mind every time they opine on braces, they're merely sending opinion letters - the real determination of legality is in the courts, if they choose to pursue a case. It's very possible they would lose and set a precedent. They even recently lost an illegal SBR/brace case to a guy with a public defender, real bad look for a federal agency.
It really is sad that we put up with laws that are absolutely 100% only to remind us, we have no choice but to obey. So much for "Land of the FREE", lol.
@prod gbc Why though? Were talking about a firearm that is ineffective past 50 yards or so. At 100 yards + I'd just use a rifle. Outside the fun/cool factor I don't need a rifle caliber pistol.
The Real Hawkeye II like a shotgun paradox. This may be a plan but simply a product sold coincidentally beside the gun for you to do whatever you want. 😊
It would be marketed as a muzzle device and it’s not part of the barrel unless welded and pinned. Kinda like a pistol brace, another work around. Also I imagine 3”-4” of rifling max which may make it more inaccurate at distance but perhaps accuracy close up could be improved.
It likes heavier rounds and AP in particular because of the same reason the birdie in badminton flies: the weight at the front end with wider back end causes the nose to fly straight, if not stable and true.
Spinning tumblers don't group, for the same reason that baseball pitchers can throw curve balls: The side of the bullet that is spinning with the wind experiences lowered air pressure, and the opposite side (spinning into the wind) experiences increased air pressure. This pressure differential pushes the bullet towards the low-pressure side (which might be up, down, left, or right, depending on orientation of the tumbling bullet.)
A non spinning bullet with a heavier point will be more stable than a non spinning bullet with a heavier base. Think like arrows. Most bullets have a heavier base. I assume the heavier and AP bullets are either more balanced or heavier up front. Doesn't matter if they're spinning but if it's not spinning then that should help it remain stable.
You could make a bullet that has a large lead head and a shaft running behind with a thick copper sleeve to do that forward balance. Doesn't seem that hard to make
The labradar isn't getting velocities well because it bounces the doppler off the base of the bullet. You will notice it can track larger calibers out farther and more accurately because of this. I imagine the tumbling gives crazy readings if any and it can't calculate.
Id like to see the performance with the nerf football projos. Also, maybe try a round ball projo, similar to a paintball gun. there are many markers with straight rifling and that somehow enhances accuracy over a smooth bore.
For absolute hurr durr they should have made sligthly elongated cases loaded with a row of .224 caliber round balls inside the neck and every shot spits out like 3-4 BB sized projectiles. I mean if you're gonna release fuckery to the public might as well go all out.
In many states, that's illegal. And for the states that do allow it, there's a ridiculous wait time and is a hassle to deal with. And some of us don't want our corrupt government knowing what we own.
About the American built Tantals - there has been a batch with .223 barrels that caused keyholing. As a Polish made tantal user I’ve never experienced that. Neither have any of my friends with their tantals.
Heavier ammo would have a increased mass which would be harder to adjust it out of the air stream. Also don't they have special ammo for those that's designed for it?
Well that fact that a factory rifle designed to keyhole could hold that group at that distance is actually impressive. This sort of reminds me of some of those early Polish Tantals that were imported that would (sometimes) keyhole at 25M then shoot 100M no keyhole issues.
For $1500-1800, a consumer can get a Daniel Defense MK18 pistol and know that their rounds are going to 1. Fly true, and 2. Hold better than 4 MOA at 50yds. It seems like an aweful lot of money to spend on a firearm just to put a foregrip and have a short barrel without paying a tax stamp. The costs just don't outweigh the outdated technology Franklin Armory is putting into the Reformation.
It's definitely way too expensive, but why would you care about whether an AR pistol is 4MOA or 1MOA? Criticizing it on that basis is pointless, pistols aren't long range weapons. As an aside, spending $1800 on a DD pistol is batshit, you can build a reliable AR pistol for less than half of that.
@@user-ti1kq9me9t how ? It's basically legal 2 round burst and the way it is implemented makes it into a useful tool unlike bumpstocks and trigger cranks
Well now. Great video. My take is under 50 yards it is probably good to go. I would bet at close range it would be fairly good for huntin' say hogs for example. 5.56 is a terrible round for hogs if you want to recover them. For many reasons, horribly under powered but, the biggy is no blood trail. These tumbling rounds would likely leave a blood trail but, I think for the price and accuracy I'd pass on it but, hat's off to them for doing an end run on a tyrannical government. I think if you were 20-30 yards from a Hog Feeder this would probably out perform a 7.5" with a standard barrel. If they just offer a barrel at a decent price, I'll bite. Great job brother 👍🇺🇸
15:57 _“For whatever reason the LAB RADAR is having trouble picking up the keyholing bullet”_ RADAR works by sending out radio signals and detecting the signals being reflected back by a moving object. Perhaps because the bullets are tumbling, the signal gets scattered and the RADAR receiver can’t detect anything.
@@Militaryarmschannel why are you waiting till you get to the range to look at the blocks....I'm really not trying to be a smartass just wondering cause it's really hard to see into the blocks when there wavy
The mechanics to create a fin stabilized projo would be daunting as well as having a projo with parts that could break off and insufficient mass to impact downrange with enough KE to put down your target. And a Disgarding Sabot-like projo would have a miniscule and needle-like projectile. Super fast but without much mass or even frontal surface, it would be like a high velocity needle zipping through a target. KE is needed on the downrange target to put it down reliably. Sure, it MAY bleed out eventually, or even instantly IF you have a CNS impact but that would be wishful thinking in a crisis shooting for a civilian.
Is hard to say bc since the bullet is tumbling there still the chance that it will strike the way it was meant to strike and penetrate the soft body armor
Possibly, I'd say maybe a small arms vest something that can protect against .45 from a magnum, could probably stop it. It would also depend on what firearm it's fired from and what range it is fired.
The only reason I can see it not being stopped by a soft vest would be it landing on the tip of the bullet within 10 degrees of straight or so. It’s lighter than 9mm projectiles so it shouldn’t bruise as badly as pistols either. It’s definitely not designed to penetrate especially at range and seeing this I am confident in saying that it would not penetrate soft body armor unless by chance it turns to the exact straight angle within 50-75yds.
Well... if I wanted to get a shorter rifle, a carbine Skorpion or even Beretta in 9mm or 45 would do, and if I wanted the rifle cartridge, even the Krinkov pistol would seem to be a better investment thank this one.
The Labradar uses the Doppler effect to measure speed. This requires a straight surface, which is the base of the projectile. The radar waves must be reflected from it. When the projectile is tumbling, there is no straight surface in the direction of the device to throw these waves back. Therefore no speed can be measured.
IMO the Reformation is a gimmick. I like that Franklin Armory is thinking outside of the box to me the con of the gun heavily outweighs the pro which is that you have a short barrel to go with a true stock and don't have to go through all the NFA aggravation. I would much rather go the pistol route with a SBA3 brace. That is just my .2 though
Nice to hear a game company being pro 2A! Ignore the dipshit that commented before me, he's being a dick for the sake of it. All games "die out". There's not the same amount of people watching movies from 20 years ago either. Thanks for doing what you do, I'll always be thankful for those of you that make the best(imo) form of entertainment.
Really enjoyed the video. That mic is great, heard the trigger reset clear as a bell. The tumbling projectile presents very bad faces to the radar, effectively scattering the signal. Spinning projectiles always show their flat rear end. Very interested to see the results of the "home defense " testing.
Your radar difficulties might be because you get too much signal loss when looking at the tip as opposed to the blunt tail. It could also be a signal filter of some sort that needs the distinct return of a mostly end on view of the bullet. ‘Curious how quickly the bullets are tumbling? Having an armor penetrator in the nose of the bullet would shift the cg of bullet forward, changing how the bullet would tumble (think lawn dart).
Because 300blk is a boutique round. It's 45acp that can mimic 762x39. 556 is superior at all barrel lengths. Higher energy is no substitute for lower recoil, flatter trajectory, availability, etc. Etc.
I think it's just a neat gimmicky range toy. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that is what it is. Not all guns need to be ultra serious purpose driven tools.
I think it could be a great idea for a home defense gun. You don't want a long rifle to swing around tight corners with and and you won't be shooting far so it's lack of accuracy won't be an issue.
And if your house has more than 100 yards shooting distances, just hire some mercenaries, Tony Montana! Your huge ass mansion needs more than 1 person to defend it anyway!
I would assume these rounds to not really tumble at all. They will turn sideways and keep flying sideways as that is more stable than nose forward without spin. Would be really interesting to see this in slow motion.
Absolutely pointless, all that so you can use a true "stock"... Get an SBA3 and make an 11.5/12" AR pistol. It's nothing more then a (bad/overpriced) answer looking for a problem. I love the idea of giving the finger to the NFA in all respects, but... this is truly a dumb thing and to try and sell an engineering experiment for up to $1800 in an AR saturated world (with better options being less then half the price to put together) is just plain laughable. I have no interest in the Binary trigger and at this point FA is kind of just a joke company in my opinion.
If I remember correctly, a story I heard some years ago - the first AR/M-16 rifles had the same problem in vietnam with the rounds keyhole-ing from the wrong twist rate which caused devastating wounds when hitting flesh but had no lethality or accuracy past 25-50 yards. Not sure how accurate it is , but this keyhole rifle seems similar. Great video :). Merry Christmas
Love & Terror Tattoo That was when we went from 55 grain to 62+, the original twist rate was 1-12 if I remember right and works fine for 55 grain but anything about 62 grain or heavier is too long to stabilize
Really looking fwd to the drywall test. Light, easy to handle with a smaller effective range would be an interesting option for people who live in the city.
Kinda, the owner wanted to be the one to take to Ian and Karl and not his employees. Apparently his staff aren’t or weren’t well enough trained to handle “expert” level interrogation/questioning.
No, it wasn’t that they wouldn’t talk to Ian and Karl it was they wanted the owner/president to speak to them. He felt they were manipulating his staff and making the company look bad. I don’t think he realizes that this is even worse since he doesn’t trust his staff. He obviously didn’t handle this very well. The gun has obvious issues but this doesn’t mean it is useless. In fact it should be marketed appropriately because it is indeed an excellent gun and most certainly useful for some people. Case in point, the 500 magnum and Judge revolver. Clearly a dumb pair of guns and yet huge sellers, (the .460 is actually useful for handgun hunting). He needs to simply turn into this market and sell a million units but is instead being defensive. Even HiPoint has embraced their suck and because of this they have sold more guns to snobs and even released a new and much improved version.
Chris Indermuehle , not shady, they’re in a trade show trying to sell their stuff, everything they say to any prospective customers should be assumed to be recorded.
Plus 90% of musket "inaccuracy" was because of the delay of a flintlock mechanism, and the low velocity of black powder. With a musket, every shot was basically a hangfire, and every shot was pistol(45acp) velocity.
I just Revisited this video thinking about the Reformation might be a real good home defense. Hopefully I can find some more ballistics information on how hard they hit at fifteen to twenty-five yards.
Wonder how a long round based spitzer bullet loaded back to front would perform accuracy wise, it would create a low pressure area around the rear end of the bullet in flight and the weight forward would also reduce the likelihood of tumbling.... Alternatively just upping the caliber and just firing a 9mm(or multiple stacked ones) round-ball(or larger .308 case diameter would accept a 44 cal bullet if straight walled...)at 1500to 2000+fps should be quite effective
Quit apologizing about the glasses. It's ok. Back before eyepro was a thing, the 1st range injury I saw was thanks to someones BCGs. Hot case from an M249 stuck between frame and cheek.
Psh! Real men don't need eye or ear pro! What are you, a girl? I use flash bangs against myself just to get used to them. Be a real man and screw protection!
What about the fin stabilized rounds?? It’s my understanding that it solves the tumbling problem, so that u can shoot out to a few hundred yards, and not tumble and keyhole. But they prolly haven’t released those rounds yet, so I guess I just assured my own question Hugh?....awesome video, love ur content Tim! Thank u for all u do for the 2a community.
That thing needs to be chambered in 44 auto mag loaded with round ball! Can you guys get with Paul Harrell and do the leather pork shoulder and orange thing. Pretty please with sugar on top! Terminal performance may be interesting. That kid with the AK is probably from Broken Bow Nebraska. And like the other guy, sell me the barrel. And when it comes to Elmer Keith you just can't go wrong with .44! Or .429 whtvr wait Hornady said .430! Hmmmm! 44 auto mag in an AR15!
I think that with ammo specifically designed for it there is potential. Say a bullet profile of a 77 grn that is only 60 grn that is nose heavy. It would shoot how a Lee key drive slug does out of a smooth bore shotgun. Another idea would be a round ball projectile in the case that would still feed correctly.
I wonder if a flash hider, with a tight enough rifled hole, to put a spin on the bullet, would make it other than a "firearm"? Would it be considered a barrel or accesory? Also another option would be polygonal bore unless the ATF considers that rifling.
If it is going through 2 inch thick rubber at 100yards, how is it not lethal?
Two rounds made it through EXISTING bullet holes. The rest just barely broke the surface and can be seen sticking out (picture of this is in the video). So you’re wrong. A leather winter coat would stop the bullet at 100 yards.
Ah ok, I thought they were making it through the dummy and just not out of the back of the shirt. Cool thanks for the info
Here's the picture of what the rounds that didn't hit an existing bullet hole looked like: flic.kr/p/R3aXci
@@chadsmith6599 Yes sir.
I also bare some of the blame for the confusion because I didn't articulate this clearly in the video but used the picture to try and illustrate what I failed to properly articulate.
Need another keymod slot? Just shoot it with the reformation!
haha you dirty butt.
Their biggest mistake was generating a ton of hype and then having the most painfully awkward sales rep at SHOT show.
KowOneOhTwo they weren’t actually trying to hype it heavily. This happened accidentally because Ian and Karl from InRange happened into their booth last year. It happened again this year when they were asked to go away.
@@john-paulsilke893 You must not remember them heavily advertising it on several platforms and teasing how it was a revolutionary NFA work around and everyone trying to guess what the gimmick was going to be. There was a ton of buzz before SHOT even started last year.
Yes of course but they weren’t pushing to savvy industry types but neophytes and regular Joes much harder as well as the typical shills. The more honest reviewers like Mac weren’t asked about reviewing it until the In Range disaster. They can pull out of this but they need to be more trustworthy and act more openly. Giving the gun to Mac is a Very good start since he will tear it apart if it isn’t worthy and find it’s niche more honestly. This is a quality gun, it’s just not the next best thing going, (maybe).
I guess I was under a rock or up in Canada where SBR and SBS doesn’t exist. You can put stocks on anything and bayonets as well. Foregrips on handguns and anything that makes you gun bigger are all fine. In Canada we are afraid of small guns, not big ones. 20mm canons are considered hunting rifles as long as no explosive tips. This gun is a bizarre construct up here but it does seem like it could be useful for people who want to travel between states with their rifle but don’t like pistol braces, (too short and awkward and uncomfortable as well as being stupid). I understand pistol braces as we use pistol magazines in Canada so we can have capacity higher then 5rds so dumb laws are universal although I think everywhere other then NY and California are better in the USA for the most part.
Ummmm, I don’t think you fully read my comment. If you are into shortie shotguns and want to walk into a shop and 5mins later leave with a 12” shotgun then Canada is for you. If you want to be able to legally defend yourself with a handgun, probably you are gonna be looking a bit south for a home.
Hi, guys thanks for tuning in to another video on Forgotten Weapons ...
I see what you did there
Ian wont be able to cover this gun
@@bleh8789 oof
@@bleh8789 Won't be able to? Why? He or Karl could just buy or borrow one. You don't need permission from a company to review their publicly available product.
@@zul448 i know, its a lame joke regarding Franklin's treatment at SHOT
Me: So what is the guns twist rate?
FA: Sure.
More like: "no".
Liked just for the "very unconstitutional law called the NFA"
The reason it likes AP ammunition is because AP projectiles use a Tungsten core, Tungsten has a very high density of 19.25 grams/cm3 while lead has a density of only 11.34 grams/cm3. The higher density will always have a straighter flight because it is less affected by the air for a given weight of projectile.
Hope this clarifies your question.
I figured it had something to do with the weight bias favoring the lead over the steel. Thank you.
To be more accurate they use tungstencarbide alloys mostly with a density of ~14.5g/cm3, not pure tungsten.
@@Militaryarmschannel Tim I'd be curious to know if it would penetrate pistol armour at tumbling distance. Any thoughts?
@@_j.v.st._7367 still significantly heavier then even pure lead
@@Militaryarmschannel not favoring lead over steel but favoring tungsten over lead but it's the same principle
With the advent of the SBA3 and other braces, this gun is kind of already obsolete. I love them bending the rules, but I feel it sadly just didn't work as well as they hoped.
Max Pain Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives not the National Firearms Act originally enacted in 1935
Max Pain well until trump orders all arm braces illegal just like bump stocks
Well said. I would rather have a pistol with spin stabilization than this key holing piece of shit.
Max Pain Buy why not just say BATFE, or what they’re usually called, ATF? The NFA is the law, not the agency that okayed shouldering pistol braces.
Be curious to see what the tumbling effects of the AR prototypes and 601s with 1/14 twist would be like firing 193 55 gr..especially in cold weather
Yea I'd rather have that Bren 2
Isnt it twice as much though
The Bren2 will be MSRP for $1700.00. So who knows its real price, but it isn't twice as much as the Reformation which goes for like $1300 on average.
@@ricks.1092 oh i thought the bren 2 was going for 2200-2500
@Tyler Collins the bren 2 looks intresting , i didnt like a couple features on the bren 1 . It was fun shooting it in full auto at a range in reno though
For $1,200 you can buy a palmetto AR pistol for under $400, upgrade the trigger for another $100, pay your $200 dollar SBR stamp, buy a collapsible magpul stock and buffer kit another $100 and you would have an additional $400 to boot for dont know maybe a suppressor stamp and a suppressor can... skip the keyholes.
Gorilla UMP yea I don’t see the point spending that much just so you can have a buttstock instead of a “brace” and a forward 90 degree hand grip.
@@koriwest The point is that it doesnt apply to NFA guidelines, its not a typical gun. How do you not get that?
@@PeaceManBro Because even after going through the entire process you have spent less money than on a Reformation.
There are many states that isn't legal
I think the point is for states where we can’t own sbr’s. We no have something similar....thank you Franklin armory
I seem to remember hearing from the President of Franklin Arms about a proprietary finned stabilized ammo.
It isn't designed to keyhole, they just cant make it not keyhole.
I can assure you they knew full well a non-spinning bullet was going to keyhole. I don't think they believed a straight rifling would have stopped that. The only reason it has a straight rifling in it is because if it were a smooth bore barrel it would fall under the jurisdiction of the NFA. So yes, it was designed to keyhole but they tried (and succeeded) in trying to get the tumbling round to fly somewhat true.
@@Militaryarmschannel What happened to the Finned bullet they were developing for these?
@@thegael1996 So far they are not answering questions about that round this year. They are being very defensive and giving none answers...I am going to have to guess that the round is not working right.
Hmm.. Maybe it needs a "compensator" with proper rifling in it? Kind of like an external choke? Not sure how that would play out legally though... I suppose as long as it actually acts as a compensator the fact that it has rifling in it is just incidental, right? (I am NOT a lawyer!)
@@thegael1996 Now they need to figure out how to make rifled bullets
Noticed some of the cases are just barely ejecting.
Yeah erratic ejection, I saw that too. Not good.
Probably something to do with the unreliable pistol length gas system.
Charger SPS the standard military carbine length is 14”, under 16” is pistol for civilians legally.
Hard pass. For that price, I'd rather buy an actual sbr.
also check how they assemble this, Loctite red and blue on everything
Something that is lethal at 100 yards would be preferred for that many greenbacks.
For what price? It's got all American parts with a type 3 binary trigger installed... and it's NFA proof.
It's 1400 msrp with premium trigger pack, 1100 without.
@@ravissary79 We thought bump-stocks were NFA proof remember? Poke the bear long enough and eventually, it will bite.
@@ravissary79 about $800~ by converting a PSA pistol to SBR. I don't need a HSLD kinda rifle. My home defense AR is an M&P15 Sport. It works quite well.
I like the idea of a tumbling bullet hitting a target with accuracy at 50yds. Wonder what the damage difference at 50yds between this and a CMMG 45ACP is. Would like to see drywall and jell tests. Great job on the videos and 2nd amendment support.
If it wasn't for the big price tag, I would buy this. This seems like the perfect home defense gun.
You gotta feel for Franklin armory. They come out with the reformation right after the atf basically gives everyone permission to shoulder braces. Then they come out with the Providence (right after Cali changes it’s definition of semi automatic)
They try to innovate and get smacked in the face for it.
Pistol braces have done more to stick it to the nfa the this thing will, and you still get actual rifling.
How did California redefine semi automatic?
@@joshsquatch7474 true, but the pistol brace is on shakey legal ground. They are already being targeted in the newest ban legislation and would only require the ATF to change their opinion about them. This would require a congressional bill to redefine the legal definition of a "rifle".
@@ravissary79 Probably something to do with only pulling the trigger to fire another round, making the Providence and double action revolvers legally semi auto in Cali
It sucks that the Providence got shot down like that, it's actually really clever in how it's semi auto but legally not
@@Robert-qm7yi the idea that they'd go after double action revolvers as semi autos is insane. it proves nothing is safe for the marxist whackos.
I need to see this with a Paul Harrell style Meat Target....
Don't forget the new and improved high-tech fleece bullet stop.
@TheInkCanvas
And Shatner-esque... Pauses.
Does Paul Harrel have a speech impediment? You be the judge.
@@adstaton8461
*y o u b e t h e j u d g e*
I love this thread.
If I were Franklin Armory, I'd be pitching this as a home defense carbine for urban/suburban areas. As quickly as it bleeds velocity, it might be a better choice than a pistol or actual rifle, either one, from a safety standpoint.
And at a really accessible price point!
just get a .300 blk braced AR pistol and run Lehigh Defense 78 grain high velocity close quarters ammo in it if you need a powerful home defense option in an urban area. It'll be much cheaper, much better to suppress and much more effective inside a home with no chance of over penetration, since it dumps its energy almost entirely in the target instead of bleeding it off before it ever even hits it.
Yeah. Like the special arrows they make for shooting birds out of trees. They have super intense fletching that bleeds velocity quickly so that it won't go too far if you miss.
For the price I hope a reach around is included.
Something makes me think this would benefit from spherical ammo. The lack of an oblong projectile may allow for better grouping, and even possibly reduce drag to increase range.
Don't say anything bad about it, Franklin armory might blacklist you
Yes! They cannot accept ANY criticism of their products. It's hilarious how defensive and standoffish they get, if you introduce an almost $2000 gun that keyholes it's already a failure.
@Onearmedscissor I wouldn't take it if they gave it to me, well maybe if it were free I'd tear it apart & make an actual gun out of it!!
That's ok we'll all just sit outside with the cool kids at shot show.
Ian and Karl said that was a misunderstanding. The President of the company told the guys at the booth, "I want to talk to them personally". They passed it along incorrectly as "we arent allowed to talk to you." That was never supposed to be the message according to Inrange. I wasnt there tho.
Really?
Wanna spread this idea FA? SELL JUST THE BARRELS. I’d love to play around with this idea but not for a grand.
Changing the barrel in your rifle doesn't make it "firearm". It would be illegal
What if instead of Rifling, it used small patches of grooves/dots in a similar spin through the barrel?
I would rather see a manufacturers/dealers non compliant union wear we just ignore the law
You'd be required to install it in a Virgin 80% lower probably to be 100% legal, likely a Virgin stripped lower
@@WCGwkf it depends on what the lower was sold as. If rifle or pistol its illegal. Has to be "firearm"
I understand what they were trying to do here, but it's just not necessary, especially with all of the pistol braces available. If they would've released this like 10 years ago it may have been a hit.
Until you decide you want a vertical foregrip.
I'm sure they started development on this project way before braces we're approved. They probably cried when the atf gave the approval and their golden goose got smoked. That's the only way I could see someone justifying the RnD to build something like this. It might have been a hit if braces we're not an option, which I'm sure was their thought.
@Wōtan That goes both ways. The ATF probably does not want to go to court, mostly because their language used to suggest pistol braces could be illegal when shouldered is based off of a tenuous definition of "manufacture", when they say that shouldering a brace is "manufacturing" a shoulder stock. Keep in mind every time they opine on braces, they're merely sending opinion letters - the real determination of legality is in the courts, if they choose to pursue a case. It's very possible they would lose and set a precedent. They even recently lost an illegal SBR/brace case to a guy with a public defender, real bad look for a federal agency.
@@tstststs
Yeah I read about that case they lost in Ohio. It was real stupid to charge the guy for buying an AR pistol.
Very neat design. I'm happy to see it on the market and clearly a home defense choice or other defensive situation at close distances.
It really is sad that we put up with laws that are absolutely 100% only to remind us, we have no choice but to obey.
So much for "Land of the FREE", lol.
tell those sandhill cranes to be quiet, i am trying to watch a video 15:13
Those are drunk geese what r you talking about. 😁 Nice catch man.
Ribeye of the sky...
I was going to call it, but you already did. Nice catch!
My buddy had a wildlife refuge behind his house SWARMING with those things. Loudest birds ever
It's a neat idea. But even at 1200, I'd rather go get a solid pistol, a few thousand rounds of ammo, and train hard.
Me too.
@prod gbc Why though? Were talking about a firearm that is ineffective past 50 yards or so. At 100 yards + I'd just use a rifle. Outside the fun/cool factor I don't need a rifle caliber pistol.
Needs a rifled, screw on, muzzle accessory, LOL.
The Real Hawkeye II like a shotgun paradox. This may be a plan but simply a product sold coincidentally beside the gun for you to do whatever you want. 😊
That is a very clever idea. I wonder if that is possible!
It would be marketed as a muzzle device and it’s not part of the barrel unless welded and pinned. Kinda like a pistol brace, another work around. Also I imagine 3”-4” of rifling max which may make it more inaccurate at distance but perhaps accuracy close up could be improved.
Yes, exactly like a shotgun paradox.
It’d be difficult to tune standard ammo/gun for a paradox but probably cheaper then that kooky ammo they are saying they will produce.
It likes heavier rounds and AP in particular because of the same reason the birdie in badminton flies: the weight at the front end with wider back end causes the nose to fly straight, if not stable and true.
Spinning tumblers don't group, for the same reason that baseball pitchers can throw curve balls: The side of the bullet that is spinning with the wind experiences lowered air pressure, and the opposite side (spinning into the wind) experiences increased air pressure. This pressure differential pushes the bullet towards the low-pressure side (which might be up, down, left, or right, depending on orientation of the tumbling bullet.)
Are they going to release the special ammo they said was coming or was that scrapped?
A non spinning bullet with a heavier point will be more stable than a non spinning bullet with a heavier base. Think like arrows. Most bullets have a heavier base. I assume the heavier and AP bullets are either more balanced or heavier up front. Doesn't matter if they're spinning but if it's not spinning then that should help it remain stable.
They had designed some "baseball-esque" ammunition for this, but apparently it is not on the market
@@piRaufasertapete Yep. That special ammo will have a center of mass closer to the front of the projectile increasing its stability. Maybe.
You could make a bullet that has a large lead head and a shaft running behind with a thick copper sleeve to do that forward balance. Doesn't seem that hard to make
@prod gbc oh yeah, but it would be a pencil shaft
See my comment above and ask Tim to try it out.
I wonder what would happen if they made 556 round shaped like round bb and shoot it out of it?
So with a beta mag it's essentially the Patriot from Metal Gear Solid 3
Exactly what I was thinking!
Including the keyholing
For strictly home defense it would be decent if it wasn't so expensive...
The hand guard can easily be changed and add the carrying handle 😍
@@ZombieWilfred Well it is for all purposes a straightened rifling gun so really it should've been inexpensive
The labradar isn't getting velocities well because it bounces the doppler off the base of the bullet. You will notice it can track larger calibers out farther and more accurately because of this. I imagine the tumbling gives crazy readings if any and it can't calculate.
Id like to see the performance with the nerf football projos. Also, maybe try a round ball projo, similar to a paintball gun. there are many markers with straight rifling and that somehow enhances accuracy over a smooth bore.
Same here. You'd think Franklin Armory would have sent a couple boxes of them along with the guns.
For absolute hurr durr they should have made sligthly elongated cases loaded with a row of .224 caliber round balls inside the neck and every shot spits out like 3-4 BB sized projectiles. I mean if you're gonna release fuckery to the public might as well go all out.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD only problem is that would probably have actually been effective and decently accurate.
You should have tried the gel at 100 yards...
I'm less critical of these than I was before, I think they'll do just fine in a home defense situation.
That being said, too many monies.
Kmeekins416 the 7” upper for $650 isn’t bad at all.
For 1400 bucks, just build a decent rifle and SBR it. It will cost less and it will be a real rifle.
And in many states patently illegal.
In many states, that's illegal. And for the states that do allow it, there's a ridiculous wait time and is a hassle to deal with. And some of us don't want our corrupt government knowing what we own.
About the American built Tantals - there has been a batch with .223 barrels that caused keyholing. As a Polish made tantal user I’ve never experienced that. Neither have any of my friends with their tantals.
I have rifled slugs for my smooth bore shotgun... Why not same thing?
I don't keep up with this but I heard they had weird Nerf dart like projectiles.
The rifling on the slug is not for rotation but To squeeze through choke
@@TheNicoandyou i don't use chokes.
You don't understand forgett it man haha
@@TheNicoandyou i thought it had the same effect. Then they should just make actual ball slugs.
This is a very interesting barrel design and round. Excellent work and thinking outside the box.
Heavier ammo would have a increased mass which would be harder to adjust it out of the air stream. Also don't they have special ammo for those that's designed for it?
That special ammo still hasn't come out.
Well that fact that a factory rifle designed to keyhole could hold that group at that distance is actually impressive. This sort of reminds me of some of those early Polish Tantals that were imported that would (sometimes) keyhole at 25M then shoot 100M no keyhole issues.
The steel core stabilizes the slug a little with the greater density at the center. Tumbling dice, nastier wounds? I love it.
For $1500-1800, a consumer can get a Daniel Defense MK18 pistol and know that their rounds are going to 1. Fly true, and 2. Hold better than 4 MOA at 50yds.
It seems like an aweful lot of money to spend on a firearm just to put a foregrip and have a short barrel without paying a tax stamp. The costs just don't outweigh the outdated technology Franklin Armory is putting into the Reformation.
But not with a binary trigger thats another 500
@@oleredwhiteandblue3613 the binary trigger is a useless feature
It's definitely way too expensive, but why would you care about whether an AR pistol is 4MOA or 1MOA? Criticizing it on that basis is pointless, pistols aren't long range weapons. As an aside, spending $1800 on a DD pistol is batshit, you can build a reliable AR pistol for less than half of that.
@@yucannthahvitt it could be a bit cheaper but it has a binary trigger too so thats 450 to 500 right there
@@user-ti1kq9me9t how ? It's basically legal 2 round burst and the way it is implemented makes it into a useful tool unlike bumpstocks and trigger cranks
I vote Gimmick but, I'll watch the video and then come back once you give me an education on it.
Well now. Great video. My take is under 50 yards it is probably good to go. I would bet at close range it would be fairly good for huntin' say hogs for example. 5.56 is a terrible round for hogs if you want to recover them. For many reasons, horribly under powered but, the biggy is no blood trail. These tumbling rounds would likely leave a blood trail but, I think for the price and accuracy I'd pass on it but, hat's off to them for doing an end run on a tyrannical government. I think if you were 20-30 yards from a Hog Feeder this would probably out perform a 7.5" with a standard barrel. If they just offer a barrel at a decent price, I'll bite. Great job brother 👍🇺🇸
Just use 250 grain 5.56 it should work just fine.
the8jrfan so a pencil loaded into a 5.56 case?
15:57 _“For whatever reason the LAB RADAR is having trouble picking up the keyholing bullet”_
RADAR works by sending out radio signals and detecting the signals being reflected back by a moving object. Perhaps because the bullets are tumbling, the signal gets scattered and the RADAR receiver can’t detect anything.
Just a FYI you can use a heat gun to smooth out the clear gel to make it less wavy
Just a FYI, we don't have any power outlets at the range. 😂
@@Militaryarmschannel why are you waiting till you get to the range to look at the blocks....I'm really not trying to be a smartass just wondering cause it's really hard to see into the blocks when there wavy
Hmm how about a smooth bore fin stabilized rounds?
I believe that smooth bore would make it a shot barrelled shot gun.
Cuz then you’d have to buy special ammo from them which would be likely extremely expensive
Lmao
Modern tank cannons? Too low FPS to stabilize such mass?
The mechanics to create a fin stabilized projo would be daunting as well as having a projo with parts that could break off and insufficient mass to impact downrange with enough KE to put down your target.
And a Disgarding Sabot-like projo would have a miniscule and needle-like projectile. Super fast but without much mass or even frontal surface, it would be like a high velocity needle zipping through a target.
KE is needed on the downrange target to put it down reliably. Sure, it MAY bleed out eventually, or even instantly IF you have a CNS impact but that would be wishful thinking in a crisis shooting for a civilian.
4:05 he said you don’t need uncle stamp for permission 😂
16:08 I imagine that there is varying Doppler shift off the opposite ends of the bullet as it tumbles
Seems the advent of something like a SBA3 brace make this pointless. Maybe if it had come to market before pistol braces.
Will soft body armor stop the tumbling bullet?
I have absolutely nothing to prove my confidence in saying DEFINITELY. But I will say so anyway
Is hard to say bc since the bullet is tumbling there still the chance that it will strike the way it was meant to strike and penetrate the soft body armor
Yes. In fact better than bullets that aren’t because of the decreased sectional density.
Possibly, I'd say maybe a small arms vest something that can protect against .45 from a magnum, could probably stop it.
It would also depend on what firearm it's fired from and what range it is fired.
The only reason I can see it not being stopped by a soft vest would be it landing on the tip of the bullet within 10 degrees of straight or so.
It’s lighter than 9mm projectiles so it shouldn’t bruise as badly as pistols either. It’s definitely not designed to penetrate especially at range and seeing this I am confident in saying that it would not penetrate soft body armor unless by chance it turns to the exact straight angle within 50-75yds.
So, better than a musket at 50 yards, non lethal at 100 yards, and very expensive, no thanks.
Well... if I wanted to get a shorter rifle, a carbine Skorpion or even Beretta in 9mm or 45 would do, and if I wanted the rifle cartridge, even the Krinkov pistol would seem to be a better investment thank this one.
exactly what I was thinking.
Thanks for doing this evaluation. I've been very curious about these. Looking forward to your next test round.
The Labradar uses the Doppler effect to measure speed. This requires a straight surface, which is the base of the projectile. The radar waves must be reflected from it. When the projectile is tumbling, there is no straight surface in the direction of the device to throw these waves back. Therefore no speed can be measured.
Good as a finger to the NFA, but not very practical.
Like the shockwave
IMO the Reformation is a gimmick. I like that Franklin Armory is thinking outside of the box to me the con of the gun heavily outweighs the pro which is that you have a short barrel to go with a true stock and don't have to go through all the NFA aggravation. I would much rather go the pistol route with a SBA3 brace. That is just my .2 though
It's great that you play World of Tanks, because we watch your channel!
Your games dying mate, stop trying to be relevant
Nice to hear a game company being pro 2A! Ignore the dipshit that commented before me, he's being a dick for the sake of it. All games "die out". There's not the same amount of people watching movies from 20 years ago either. Thanks for doing what you do, I'll always be thankful for those of you that make the best(imo) form of entertainment.
Really enjoyed the video. That mic is great, heard the trigger reset clear as a bell. The tumbling projectile presents very bad faces to the radar, effectively scattering the signal. Spinning projectiles always show their flat rear end. Very interested to see the results of the "home defense " testing.
Your radar difficulties might be because you get too much signal loss when looking at the tip as opposed to the blunt tail. It could also be a signal filter of some sort that needs the distinct return of a mostly end on view of the bullet. ‘Curious how quickly the bullets are tumbling? Having an armor penetrator in the nose of the bullet would shift the cg of bullet forward, changing how the bullet would tumble (think lawn dart).
Put your suppressor on it. I dare you.
It only keyholes after 15 yards so unless you have a 15.01 yard long suppressor you are fine.
This gun is giving the NFA the middle finger. Lol
Too much risk of a baffle strike.
@@smack00 Doesn't need to have
suppressor. But yeah, that's a shame
They're also giving the finger to any moron that purchases this $$$$ pos too.
It's also giving anyone the values accuracy and stopping power the middle finger.
Almost literally(giving the middle finger) at 7:32 LMAO. (Or you can say its a rocker fist)
I want one...bren 2!
That's the one I'm waiting for too, I want the 14" pistol version
I was on the fence about the reformation but now I think it would make a good house/truck gun , thanks mac ;-)
I can say that would be a hell of a self defense gun if its key holing it would shred flesh I would love to see some ballistics jell slowmo of that
Wait, why does the 5.56 version have a 7" barrel and the .300BLK version have an 11" barrel?? That's back-asswards.
Because 300blk is a boutique round.
It's 45acp that can mimic 762x39.
556 is superior at all barrel lengths.
Higher energy is no substitute for lower recoil, flatter trajectory, availability, etc. Etc.
I think it's just a neat gimmicky range toy. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that is what it is. Not all guns need to be ultra serious purpose driven tools.
I think it could be a great idea for a home defense gun. You don't want a long rifle to swing around tight corners with and and you won't be shooting far so it's lack of accuracy won't be an issue.
Works perfectly for home defense.
4MOA is what everyone in the Great Wars was working with, and suddenly it's unusable?
Get real!
And if your house has more than 100 yards shooting distances, just hire some mercenaries, Tony Montana!
Your huge ass mansion needs more than 1 person to defend it anyway!
Actually a brilliant weapon considering the issues 556 has with tumbling at lower velocities. Keyholing bullets do a lot of damage.
I would assume these rounds to not really tumble at all. They will turn sideways and keep flying sideways as that is more stable than nose forward without spin.
Would be really interesting to see this in slow motion.
The projectile can’t smell the hair if you don’t have your weak hand on that vfg. Very informative as usual.
ehhh, some things are just reaching. I love the "F you" to the NFA, but I wouldn't waste my money on this.
Make a muzzle device with rifling to spin that round a bit.
Absolutely pointless, all that so you can use a true "stock"... Get an SBA3 and make an 11.5/12" AR pistol. It's nothing more then a (bad/overpriced) answer looking for a problem. I love the idea of giving the finger to the NFA in all respects, but... this is truly a dumb thing and to try and sell an engineering experiment for up to $1800 in an AR saturated world (with better options being less then half the price to put together) is just plain laughable. I have no interest in the Binary trigger and at this point FA is kind of just a joke company in my opinion.
Hey, I'm sure they sold... several by now.
@@paulflannigan888 LOL... that made my morning man, thanks.
I wonder if a longer barrel would help it be leathal at 100 yards, but it not having traditional rifling that might not even matter.
If I remember correctly, a story I heard some years ago - the first AR/M-16 rifles had the same problem in vietnam with the rounds keyhole-ing from the wrong twist rate which caused devastating wounds when hitting flesh but had no lethality or accuracy past 25-50 yards. Not sure how accurate it is , but this keyhole rifle seems similar. Great video :). Merry Christmas
Love & Terror Tattoo That was when we went from 55 grain to 62+, the original twist rate was 1-12 if I remember right and works fine for 55 grain but anything about 62 grain or heavier is too long to stabilize
Not bad at all. Not a fan of the price though.
Home defense gun, no NFA paperwork!
I have no use for a gun that keyholes
What about a potato gun?
This would be the shit for home defense ... this gun would top someone coming thru my door plus they will think I have a machine gun
@@TylerB-my1kr most Anti gun liberals already think it's a machine gun
Well it’s something like that soo that’s kinda what it’s supposed to do
Looks like a full auto cqb nitch gun.
BTW nice paul harrell reff “you be the judge”
Really looking fwd to the drywall test. Light, easy to handle with a smaller effective range would be an interesting option for people who live in the city.
Is this the outfit that refuses to talk with Ian, forgotten weapons?
Yeah
Kinda, the owner wanted to be the one to take to Ian and Karl and not his employees. Apparently his staff aren’t or weren’t well enough trained to handle “expert” level interrogation/questioning.
Franklin Armory refuses to speak with Ian and Karl? The hell?
No, it wasn’t that they wouldn’t talk to Ian and Karl it was they wanted the owner/president to speak to them. He felt they were manipulating his staff and making the company look bad. I don’t think he realizes that this is even worse since he doesn’t trust his staff. He obviously didn’t handle this very well. The gun has obvious issues but this doesn’t mean it is useless. In fact it should be marketed appropriately because it is indeed an excellent gun and most certainly useful for some people. Case in point, the 500 magnum and Judge revolver. Clearly a dumb pair of guns and yet huge sellers, (the .460 is actually useful for handgun hunting). He needs to simply turn into this market and sell a million units but is instead being defensive. Even HiPoint has embraced their suck and because of this they have sold more guns to snobs and even released a new and much improved version.
Chris Indermuehle , not shady, they’re in a trade show trying to sell their stuff, everything they say to any prospective customers should be assumed to be recorded.
wow more accurate than a musket you say? smfh
2 inches of variation at 50 yards is never going to add up to a miss in reality.
Plus 90% of musket "inaccuracy" was because of the delay of a flintlock mechanism, and the low velocity of black powder.
With a musket, every shot was basically a hangfire, and every shot was pistol(45acp) velocity.
Super cool - not worth it. THATS GOING TO BE A NO FROM ME DOGG.
I just Revisited this video thinking about the Reformation might be a real good home defense.
Hopefully I can find some more ballistics information on how hard they hit at fifteen to twenty-five yards.
Wonder how a long round based spitzer bullet loaded back to front would perform accuracy wise, it would create a low pressure area around the rear end of the bullet in flight and the weight forward would also reduce the likelihood of tumbling.... Alternatively just upping the caliber and just firing a 9mm(or multiple stacked ones) round-ball(or larger .308 case diameter would accept a 44 cal bullet if straight walled...)at 1500to 2000+fps should be quite effective
Quit apologizing about the glasses. It's ok. Back before eyepro was a thing, the 1st range injury I saw was thanks to someones BCGs. Hot case from an M249 stuck between frame and cheek.
Ooophh. That sucks... and must have left a 'sexy' scar.
Psh! Real men don't need eye or ear pro! What are you, a girl? I use flash bangs against myself just to get used to them. Be a real man and screw protection!
Getting a lot of “impeach Trump” ads on your videos.
Yep on all videos. Its either that or the grapple arts app.lol
Good. Fuck him!
Gimmick. And FA lost my respect when they pulled that original video off RUclips. Binary triggers are a gimmick too imo.
And what they did this year at shot show. I didn't have a negative opinion of them until that happened.
What about the fin stabilized rounds?? It’s my understanding that it solves the tumbling problem, so that u can shoot out to a few hundred yards, and not tumble and keyhole. But they prolly haven’t released those rounds yet, so I guess I just assured my own question Hugh?....awesome video, love ur content Tim! Thank u for all u do for the 2a community.
if you hit the Clear Ballistics gel blocks with a propane or butane torch on the side, you lose those shrink wrap lines.
I thought I had one in my back pocket but I forgot it at the shop.
I think that people are missing the *wink wink* opportunities of this rifle, ermm "firearm"...
The opportunity to spend more on it than sbr-ing the normal way while having less accuracy?
@@SgtKOnyx i think they're trying to find a market in states that don't allow NFA weapons
@@alexwenham8321 my advice for that situation is the same as is so often the case: leave
That thing needs to be chambered in 44 auto mag loaded with round ball! Can you guys get with Paul Harrell and do the leather pork shoulder and orange thing. Pretty please with sugar on top! Terminal performance may be interesting. That kid with the AK is probably from Broken Bow Nebraska. And like the other guy, sell me the barrel. And when it comes to Elmer Keith you just can't go wrong with .44! Or .429 whtvr wait Hornady said .430! Hmmmm! 44 auto mag in an AR15!
Fuck off
I think that with ammo specifically designed for it there is potential. Say a bullet profile of a 77 grn that is only 60 grn that is nose heavy. It would shoot how a Lee key drive slug does out of a smooth bore shotgun. Another idea would be a round ball projectile in the case that would still feed correctly.
I wonder if a flash hider, with a tight enough rifled hole, to put a spin on the bullet, would make it other than a "firearm"? Would it be considered a barrel or accesory? Also another option would be polygonal bore unless the ATF considers that rifling.
before you send this thing back.. have to try out tracers with it. if it will light them i think it would make for a intresting sight.