Before you buy your next set of speakers, watch this video
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- A lot of audiophiles are hung up on the idea that speaker upgrades are the best way to improve the sound of their systems. Invest in the best speakers they can afford, and then use the remainder of their budget on eletronics and sources like DACs and/or turntable front ends. In today’s episode the Audiophiliac turns that idea upside down, stick with your present speakers, but upgrade your amp and source(s).
Speakers (price per pair)
Q Acoustic 3030i, $399 • Review: The Overachiev...
Klipsch RP 600M $629 www.cnet.com/n...
Magnepan LRS, $650 www.cnet.com/n...
KEF LS50, $1,300 us.kef.com/spe...
Zu Dirty Weekend, $999 www.zuaudio.co...
JBL Stage A170 $500, • Review: JBL’s mighty $...
Emotiva T1+. $699 • This $1,100 Emotiva T1...
ELAC Uni-Fi UB5, $500 www.cnet.com/r...
Wharfedale Linton Heritage, $1,198 • First review: Wharfeda...
Amps:
Schiit Ragnarok 2, $1,499 www.schiit.com...
Rogue Sphinx $1,595 3 www.rogueaudio....
Parasound HINT 6, $2,995 parasound.com/...
Mytek Brooklyn Amp, $2,495 mytekdigital.c...
Jadis Orchestra Black $3,995 www.bluebirdmu...
First Watt J2 $4,000 www.firstwatt.c...
Phono Preamps
Parasound JC3 Jr $1,495 www.parasound....
Tavish Classic, $629 tavishdesign.c...
Turntables
Rega Planar 3 $1,145 www.rega.co.uk/...
VPI Prime Scout $2,499 www.musicdirec...
DACs
Schiit Bifrost $699 www.schiit.com...
Denafrips Ares II $1,028 www.denafrips....
Matrix X Sabre MQA Pro, $1,999 www.matrix-dig...
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This is a great reminder that we often don't experience the full potential of the speakers we currently use, given that they aren't total junk. But I would suggest that for many people, the same is likely true of their current upstream components. As solid as the recommendations in this video are (I love my Ares II), I would wager that for the same money, or considerably less, a bigger improvement could be made with basic, well-considered yet unobtrusive room treatments. The room, after all, is the largest component of any rig. Taming the room even partially, can bring out the best in your current gear... and allow any further upgrades to really shine. The closest thing to a night and day improvement I've personally experienced was by addressing room acoustics.
Room treatments plus speaker and listener positioning.
@@StewartMarkley yep get those right and you can use pretty simple stuff for the amp and DAC etc. At least, pretty simple with digital stuff.
Playing with analogue record player is not as consistent so many things will end up sounding different. It's not a problem I have as I haven't gotten into that media lol
I needed to reboot completely. Something very different from what I've had. So I bought magnepan 1.7i mains, Parasound A21+ amp, tube buffer and now diffusion panels. It's a whole new world baby!
If you have power and high current hungry speakers and don't have more than 800 bucks for electronics, the YAMAHA A-S801 integrated is the way to go. It is a power beast, has a great dac, great phono pre, beautiful sound, all the inputs you need and cannot be beat for the price you pay.
@Jingle Nuts The A-S3000 retails for 7000 bucks and it is simply not fair to compare the 3000 with the 801. I have a A-S2100 in my main system and the 801 in my bedroom system. I still listen to the 801 a lot and like it a lot (don't miss much with it at all). I was suggesting the A-S801 as the best bang for buck to those on a tighter budget. One can often pick it up for under 800 bucks on amazon and it will breeze through every difficult to drive speaker out there. For everything it offers, it cannot be beat at that price.
Is the AS 801 only available overseas? I have tried searching for one in Australia and cant find any
I have the yamaha rn602.
How does the Yamaha A-S1100 or 2100 compare to the Parasound HINT 6? I have power hungry speakers.
Agreed! I have the 803 which has almost identical internals and that thing rocks. Super clean and clear sound
Of course, if you have expensive electronics and cheap speakers, then different rules may apply. It is important to keep the system balanced, and work on your weakest component.
Good advice, at some point folks will figure out that a stereo system is not the holodeck that will transport you to a new reality regardless of how much money you throw at it. keep your expectations in check and be happy.
I just wrote my comment and then read yours. I totally agree with you.
Agreed Brian.Once one has been around the block a bit and learned some of the inherent limitations in the technology,expectations become more realistic,i feel.I remember in my younger days reading reviews thinking something along the lines of ''wow,that must sound like the real thing'',only to find out through latter experiences that it didn't and neither did anything else!.One point i would add re speakers is that if you have a pair that appear to gel successfully with your room,it's quite a good argument for sticking with them and thinking about upgrading other areas of the system.
Right-- MUSIC is the "holodeck"-- not gear ! But if there were not a cadre of never-satisfied audiophiles always searching for the unreachable holy grail, what would happen to the hi-end industry? ? ? Seems to me, some guys love the gear quest more than music. That's backwards, in my opinion, but different strokes.
@@jazz_addict7079 Agreed. Good music is very enjoyable on a good system, but I used to enjoy it through $20 sony headphones as well. And in my opinion, some recordings sound better on low resolution equipment, because it hides the recordings flaws.
@@jackmills5071 Good point, I loved my old Sony cassette Walkman and it was great to have music on the move,
Please! Please. Please, remember that your room is a MAJOR component in your system. Invest some money or even just some know-how in room treatment/acoustics. Speaker placement, absorption, diffusion, listening position, bass management, symmetry, etc.
Like Steve is saying, find ways to get the most out of your gear.
What I found, is that the most valuable when it comes to room tuning is the knowledge and the size of the room itself.
I just moved into a house with mud swirled ceilings. Natural diffusers, yes? Seems to make a major difference for me anyways. Have you tried fake trees/plants? My bookshelf's are ported and I am thinking about foam plants in the corners? Thanks!
@@BastognePitBull Anything to break up flat surfaces of reflections is a good thing. You don't want _too many_ things that absorb the sound. Shelves, artwork, plants all make a difference. Also, one of the largest sources of reflection almost always goes ignored - the ceiling.
Sure, but this is easier said than done 1) when one doesn't have a dedicated listening room and 2) when one's spouse is not an audiophile.
When my spouse is away travelling I move the couch and speakers 90 degrees and it sounds much better!
I lost interest in pure consumerism in this decades ago and turned to diy and vintage.
Its way less money wasted,way more things learned and more satiesfying.
Certainly its not the way to go for all,but for those who can its worth it.
Good point. DIY is lots of work if you're after an "ideal" design- especially if it comes to carpentry and you want it to look nice. A slight deviation from the norm, myself to save money was preamp delete. The streamer I'm using has volume adjust on the phone app... this alone saved my a few K$, and gained in transparency, dynamics and low end.
Zockopa vintage is the way I went, I saved a fortune doing so.
Would love to DIY speakers, but I lack the technical know-how to actually design something suitable for me (home theater with music once in awhile) while the amplifiers are no big deal. Would love to find plans with spl graphs to compare.
Steve G always recommends buying new because he writes for a magazine with a vested interest in "new and latest" audio products. The truth is your best investment by far is the classic and used gear from the past as long condition is good and it suits the intended purpose. Not only is it much cheaper, it will hold it's value or even go up in value over time. How much of the newest and latest gear can you say that about?
This is exactly what I've been saying to people on Reddit. But most people just don't get it. They think all amps/receivers sound the same and all they do is carry and amplify the signal and that's it. They don't have the slightest clue as to what they're missing. Then I see people all the time on Reddit saying the cost of your amp should only be half of your speakers cost. My amps cost double of the cost of my Uni-fi Slim's and they're still considered budget amps but it completely transformed the Elacs. And now if I ever decide to upgrade my speakers, I don't have to upgrade my amps because they aren't the weak link.
Yeah and they re right! Amps sound the same
@@TheEnzoferrari12345 Wrong
I have the same speakers and they really didn't come alive until I hooked them up to my marantz pm15s1. They normally are in my home theatre with marantz sr6011 which can push some watts but it's not the same.
I went the opposite route. Bought my last pair of speakers when my daughter was born in 2008. Switched from big Towers to the Elac 203 Anniversary Edition to give her more space. This little pair gave me all i needed while listening to my favorite tracks. Always had a Tag McLaren pre and Marantz Stereo amplifier to power them. But recently i switched to a S.M.S.L SA300 to make the chain less noticeble in the living room. This thing puts out enough power and sounds amazing. Since i havend missed the old heavy setup for one second.
Which of Marantz are you running? I recently got a 2285b and really like it. But like most audio enthusiasts, am always looking for that “little something” that will take it to the next level.
What did you like about the SMSL? Why did you choose that one in particular? Did you try others during that period?
@@gustercc Funny story. I never intended the S.M.S.L to be my main amplifier. I bought it to power my Sundaras. I build a voltage divider for it but wasn't really happy with the result. So i hooked it up to the Elacs, just for fun, and was a little blown away. So it stayed. Marantz SM 500 it was.
Robert Krüger seriously considering giving it a try. Thanks for the info.
Sound advice indeed. I had a set of Paradigm's that gave me all that and the proverbial bag of chips but then I got the "bug". 2 decades later I'm still looking for that image. But the hunt is definitely part of the hobby, right? I see comments that we shouldn't upgrade or change but what fun would that be? The fun part of this hobby for me is the hunt and then the magic if/when you get it right. The comments about the room are beyond spot on. I just moved to a house with mud swirled ceilings and a great place to get my speakers far enough apart and wow! Brand new system compared to my old crib. Enjoy the journey!!
Steve. my most recent speakers are 2 of the first 3 that you mentioned. The Elac and now the Magnepan LRS. My electronics are vintage and magical Carver m400t and Apt Holman pre. The sound is "perfect" and having had the electronics for 35+ years , they are free. My wife and I have a bet. She says you can't be married and I assure her that you are. Stay safe in NYC. Jim in Connecticut.
The Parasound Hint 6 is named such as it is the H(alo) Int(egrated).
I've been upgrading my stereo for a little over a year and took Steve's approach. Rather than getting the new speakers first, I upgraded my Phono Preamp to the Parasound JC3 Jr, bought the Ares II (Based on Steve's review last year - I'm an analog guy and absolutely love the DAC), put together a NUC so I can now stream TIDAL and Qobuz. Then a great deal came along and I was able to get the speakers I wanted (Goldenear Triton One.R 's). Everything worked out great and it's a fun way to upgrade your system.
Good stuff 👍
For those of us who like Omnidirectionals (Ohms)/bipoles (mirages m3s)/dipoles(Magneplanars), posibly open baffles, changing speaker will produce a change in experience unlike anything you can get from changing electronics.
I will say after owning tons of high end stuff i have came to the conclusion that a very good amp can make even the cheapest speakers sound amazing. My Parasound gear makes any cheap speaker sound 10x better then any cheaper amp gear or receiver. For me if you have a amazing amp and dac you can make a decent set of speakers sound amazing. I currently own a parasound halo integrated amplifier as well as a rotel rsx-1560 receiver for my ht setup and they both are amazing and sound better then almost anything i have ever heard.
😂
So true! I own PSB Stratus Gold I' which were Stereophile Class B category in late 1990's. I love those speakers, and just upgraded electronics to PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell/S300 amp combined with Cambridge CXC v2 transport. Wonderful results, the speakers sing with more authority and micro dynamics than ever. I'm so glad I kept these speakers. Great job Steve, I agree with you as long as your speakers are a competent design.
I knew you'd one day come around.. :) Great advice!
Zero Fidelity You two crack me up. When are you two going to put a video together on what you don’t agree upon (e.g., let’s hear a discussion on the LS50, or would that be Heresy??? ... oh and speaking of...).
I absolutely agree with this advice. I've gone fairly high-end with my system, and I've found that once you get to a certain level of speaker, source improvements matter more than anything else. My speakers are ProAc Studio 140 Mk. 2, which originally sold for about $3k/pair. I actually like them more than some older, more expensive ProAcs that I had previously. In my current setup, they sound better than speakers from Devore, Avalon, Wilson, and Dynaudio that I've listened to, costing anywhere from $12k/pair to $85k/pair. I accomplished that by finding the right combination of sources, amplifiers, and cables. On the analogue end of things, there are a couple of devices that I would add to Steve's list. Priced in between the Rega and the VPI, and sounding better than either, is the Well Tempered Simplex. Throw a Dynavector low-output moving coil cartridge on there, and you'll be in heaven. The Musical Surroundings phono preamps are also fantastic solid state upgrades. But don't forget to look at used gear. I picked up a Pass Labs Aleph Ono used for about $1k, and it knocked the pants off of any other phono preamp I had heard leading up to that. I think you get the best bang for your buck out of analogue sources. My analogue front-end cost about half as much as my digital front end, and sounds much better. Upgrading my line-level preamp also made mountains of difference.
Spot on Steve. I have a pair of Klipschorns and struggled with the sound and bass response. Sometimes the problem in the sound system is the piece of equipment you dont want to part with. In my case my Cary 211 mono block tube amps. I swapped them over for a MosFet power amp and BOOM! It was like having a new set of speakers. Everything I was frustrated about disappeared, leaving me with everything these speakers should be.
The Rogue and the Maggies are the heart of my little system with a Rega RP6 in piano black (recently replaced by the planar 6). It all works for me. It's wonderful when someone like you Steve provide so much useful information and it includes equipment I own a plus. Outside of the Maggies which are factory direct the whole system bought at a local brick and mortar store. A store with people who know what they are talking about like you....thanks.
I'm currently driving a pair of Elac Debut B6.2's with a Peachtree Nova 150 and I love what I hear. Maybe once a month or so I think about upgrading the speakers but then I listen some more and decide I can't do much better in my difficult listening room and the thought of upgrading the speakers fades away. I purchased my Elac's from the Amazon returns warehouse and I paid less than $250 for them last year. They do like power, though, so my Peachtree is a pretty good match.
Another high value, great sounding phono preamp is the Lounge Audio LCR. They are made by hand, in California, and are only $300.
Over the course of ten years, I've upgraded my integrated, cables and switched from a CDP to a transport + separate DAC. I've still got the same speakers (Silverline SR 17.5 monitors), which don't come close to comprising 50% of my modest (by audiophile standards) system. One of the upgrades that has yielded the most surprising improvement has been power cords. While speakers will be my next focus of exploration, I don't have a burning desire to replace what I have. I'm simply curious to see what sort of improvement a different choice might or might not yield. Love your channel, Steve !
Good advise.
When I worked at a hifi retailer we used to have fun with connecting relatively cheap speakers to high-end electronics.
Proac Response D18 really came to life when paired with 80K Accuphase rig!
500$ Epos speakers sounded really good aswell.
Going from one of you videos to another, I'm always surprised how well you describe listening impressions. Thank you for sharing, very useful info.
My next upgrade is to buy myself a guitar to make my own music.
No speaker will sound more authentic than when you play an instrument yourself ;)
Wise choice 👍
Because anyone can do it.
My next upgrade is to buy a new voice box. The wife said i could never sing in the first place.
@@oohtob6685 my comment was half- joke but I did buy a guitar a while ago and at 60 I am learning to play it. My recommendation to anyone who loves to listen to music is have some courage and try to play an instrument. Any instrument will do. Flute, clarinet, guitar, drums, it doesn't matter what turns you on. Playing, no matter how bad you are and how much you struggle pays dividends in your musical pleasure and is very rewarding. I find myself noticing things in songs I never picked up before. You will never regret if you make the commited attempt.
Steve is giving us some great advice on this. If you enjoy the sound of your speakers and you know you have room for improvement with your electronics please don't give up on your speakers just yet.
I have an old pair of Teledyne Acoustic Research AR92 speakers (the littlest brother of the legendary AR 9s) that I inherited from my grandmother and I have been rocking these for over 15 years. Every time I upgrade a component upstream I am amazed at how much more musical they become. I loved the sound of them when we first met and that was with all entry level electronics and cables. Each time I have put in a better amp, preamp, source unit, cables and even tube rolling it was like another vail was just removed from the speakers. My advice is with your speakers is that if you upgrade an upstream piece of gear and it makes you want to stay up all night listening to music then you haven't seen your speakers full potential yet.
What timing Steve.. I was shopping around all month for a new pair of speakers.. and am now mulling between, the Triangle Comete ez, Buchardt s300 or s400, was about to pull the trigger last night. You come along and release this video.. HAH! Now I need to rethink everything! thanks a lot Steve! (Big Fan, thanks for the uploads lol)
Ivor Tiefenbrun started Linn with the Sondek LP12 (turntable) using similar reasoning at a time when the prevailing orthodoxy was that the speakers were the most important part of the audio chain.
It's great to have a source, namely you Steve, for discovering audio that the majority of the population can actually afford. You have named great examples in the past, and here you continue to cover some really amazing contenders for assembling a fine audio system that delivers the goods. This is what I like reading about - as opposed to electronics and speakers that cost more than cars and houses! I think many of your followers would agree with me. You are the voice of reason in an industry where there is a tendency to cater to the 1%. Thanks for acknowledging that the other 99% of audio fans enjoy good sound also!
Both. Thanks Steve. I ended up buying a Cambridge AXR100 and a pair of ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52. Very happy with them.
Hi Steve...you know, one thing I wonder about are entry-level speakers that came out maybe 5 years ago or so, that got widespread praise (including you), that are no longer on the radar. What's with that? I'll tell you my example...the standmount Boston A25. I even got them on sale for 30% off at $200/pair. They're beautiful, and I can listen to for very long periods of time! All I need to do is connect a subwoofer to fill out the bottom register.
Interesting how you mention how high-current amps are needed to bring out the best in the likes of the KEF LS50 or ELAC Uni-fi: I remember how decades ago, I read in the Absolute Sound how the NAD 3020 could drive real-world speaker loads with ease (and yes, it had a power rating into 2 ohms). My local audio store salesguy loved how they drove the Maggie MG-IIb so nicely!
One other thing...the one feature that I see missing in so many integrated amps now (including the Rouge Sphinx you mention) are pre outs AND main amp inputs! That means I could never add the Schitt equalizer if I wanted to! To me, that's an omission that eliminates it as an option. So unfortunate!
Plan on keeping my kef q150s. Next purchase will be a new amp. Just bought new cables and wow, what a difference!
What did you get,,
I would actually suggest to stop thinking you need to upgrade your system at all. Love what you have and stop wasting your money.
the best advice I've heard in a long time!!!
Just bought a yamaha amp and monitor bronze 5 speakers happy with both .
WOW... Steve, you are getting fancy with the intro. Loving it!!! Thank you for stepping out of your comfort zone and sharing this amazing list with us again. I appreciate your time and expertise as always. Stay Safe!!!
My amp is double the price of my speakers. Running JBL stage A170’s on a Yamaha AS1100. Very good sound for the price.
Crown Xls drivecore - please give it a proper review, its worth it! I know one of tje fans did a vid for you, but you review would be apreciated
One big thing people miss out, very important!!!
When a person auditions a set of hi-fi in the shop and they try it at home.
‘Why does it sound different in the shop?’ They say!
Well, size of room furnishings! It will change the sound like a acoustic chamber!
Christopher Jansen Ng But you could reliably compare sources or amps in a shop because that is the only variable. You can’t do that with speakers - they must be auditioned at home.
I found that my Infinity interlude speakers have gotten better when I upgraded my pre- amp processor from a Rotel to a newer Marantz AV7005. Remember the IL 10s you reviewed on CNet I also have the IL50s and IL25C. I used 4 channels of my Carver av705x to bi amplify the 10s and they sounded incredible with 250 watts each. Love my Infinitys and have been happy for 18years now.
Hi Steve! Awesome video! Loved it.. Nobody except Mr. Ken Micalef, is ever reviewing or mentioning the Quad S-2 bookshelves which has the ribbon tweeters! These are really good, very high resolving, aren't expensive and easily beat other bookshelf speakers at a very high price range for very less money.. I hope somebody reviews them and they get the attention they deserve! Thanks..
I keep coming back to this video, Steve. I just picked-up a Music Hall mmf 9.3. Love it so far. Hoping it can get through the next 5-10 years. (Always have my eyes on VPI and Feickert) Now I'm thinking about the electronics upgrade next. My system is only turntable- no DAC, tape deck, radio, CD, nothing but TT. Appreciate your insight!
I bought the Emotiva T1+s and were running them with my Onkyo M504, but they really opened up after getting my Anthem amp.
For $800 a pair they are hard to beat.
I recently purchased a fantastic ‘much reduced’ pair of Nait SX3i isobaric speakers. Although the Rega Brio can drive them, they really needed much more power to make them sing 🎶.... so I had to find more $$$$$€€€€ once again.... to find a match... this is an expensive hobby, but I don’t think I’ll be upgrading again... I’m just going to enjoy my music 🎵 collection!!
Well sir you yet again hit the proverbial nail on the head I my self have the rega p3 turntable with Q A speakers and am in need of future upgrade in the amp department To achieve a noteworthy improvement it will require considerable financial investment but as many hi fi experts have often alluded to even relatively low price speaker can shine way above all expectations if accompanied by the right electronic This hobby is a myriad of complexity but thanks our host mr guttenberg we are all enlightened
Totally makes sense Steve. Great advice for folks early in the hifi journey. And thanks for the Stones tip!! Terry
I have the Uni-fi UF5s and I had this in mind myself when dreaming about upgrades!
1:44 yeah you know, I have that exact experience.
I fully agree, I'm driving speakers that are actually made for use on the stage, so they're very powerful, but sound very good as well, since I've upgraded my preamp and phono amp.
10:00 My recommendation would be the modernized Technics SL-1200GR or SL-1200G
11:40 I've never heard a Parasound, but I've seen the inside of a Parasound phono preamp in real life and the construction/design looks very well executed, very little compromise on material costs both on the out *and* inside. In terms of components and build quality it's great value for the money.
*but most importantly: never ever underestimate roomtuning and phono preamps - those are common mistakes*
Another masterpiece, sir! Lovin' it! I subscribe to the two big audiophile mags, but they can't touch you. You get me where I live: good sounding gear at prices I can afford. Like any good fanatic, I like to see you take the Ferrari-type stuff for a spin every once and while. BUT, most of the time you're dishing out NEWS I CAN USE. And, as always, THANK YOU.
Absolute agreed to the credo of looking at your power strength and purity and aligning it with your sensititvity.
Preach it. Been adjusting the 60 / 40 - speaker/component budget ratio for two decades now. I observed that most modest priced speakers can do so much more. So the formula no longer made as much sense to me as it did during the 70's and 80:s . These days, even a lot of the timeless designs, have seen significant improvements. Recently listened to the Sphinx integrated on a pair of Klipsch Forte's. An absolutely heretical combination by my earlier standards. (Class D with horns.) Regardless, It was great sounding combo, and a really pleasant afternoon.
This makes perfect sense. I have a collection of speakers but fed them with the same amplifier over the years. Time to explore, will be shopping for a new amplifier. Thanks !
I have $6k Audio Physics (blown) and I have a pair of Klipsch RP8000Fs with a 15 inch Klipsch Sub and I can’t get enough with a 200WPC amp and love it. The absolutely sing and don’t do anything wrong. They’re cheaper than my 1996 Mirage M7si and I love it!
Many thanks for the advice Steve I've always gone down the route of main source , amp then speakers. Lockdown is giving me plenty of time to listen to my setup and think what should I change, truth is nothing because I really enjoy it.
Personally I feel speakers are the most misunderstood aspect of good sound and feel the best approach (speaking as a vinyl guy) is to let the warmth come from the records and to let the stereo and speakers be almost as flat as possible and not add a lot of color to the sound. I plan on investing in some tube gear and nicer speakers at some point down the road but my old Sansui 8080 and Yamaha NS-25T’s w/dialed in sub provide a very neutral representation of the mastering on the records themselves and in my mind this is what makes records special and sure one day I’d love to have tube equipment and audiophile speakers to see what the fuss is all about but at least I know when I do acquire a tube set up that the pressings I’m playing are all top quality because I don’t keep anything unless it kicks ass through my SS setup which many people often describe as “clinical” or “cold” but I often wonder if they aren’t just used to warmer sounding gear softening up some less than desirable mastering? I’m no engineer and only been into this for about 6 years but I’m on a serious budget and have had to be very calculated in all my moves but perhaps one day I’ll get that tube set up and realize I’m totally wrong! But for now my wallet will keep telling me investing in well sourced materials and playback equipment is far more important so long as the speakers you have are as neutral as possible because that’s what I’m already working with.
The two common complaints about more neutral speakers I see are that they are lifeless or harsh but how can those both be at once? If it’s full and lifeless sound it can’t also be harsh which brings to mind loud and gainy or sibilance heavy. Me thinks people are just realizing some of the stuff they own isn’t as nice as they thought it was; they expose any flaws on the source of the vinyl or mastering and why own a record if it doesn’t hold up under those conditions when it’s such a cumbersome format and there’s potentially a more accessible digital alternative? It should be exposed and not puffed up by expensive speakers that might actually add potentially undesired characteristics to other mastering types that might have sounded nice otherwise! It’s largely based on what you listen to but in my mind I think even when it comes time for new speakers I might rather still get “flat” ones and also invest in an equalizer that’s on par with the SQ of my receiver but ultimately my goal is to not need to do much EQing as in my mind I’m paying largely for the mastering.
My reckoning is 75% of your budget should go in to the source and power...25-30% in to the speakers. Speakers can only reproduce what's being sent to them. Expensive and more revealing speakers can show up the shortfalls or flaws in the electronics feeding them.....so I agree with what you're saying. A failing system is unlikely to be improved by purchasing speakers around the cost of the electronics. Source, then amp then speakers in that order of outlay 👍
Funny you should do this video Steve.I actually built my system replacing my DAC. I upgraded cables, got a decent hifi power board and power cables. Next up is decent stands for my current speakers.
I bought a pair of RP-600M’s this morning online, I’m going to use them on my desk. I’m going to replace a much used pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 2.0...and I can’t wait
Do you mean Paradigm Reference Studio 20? If so, please describe how much of a step up to RP-600M?
The LS50s definitely need really good electronics and solid sand filled stands. The cabinets don't resonate, but even though small speakers, they will resonate a wood floor and really muddy the bass. Wobbly sand filled stands won't cut it, even though they will solve the floor resonance. The LS50s need to be rock solid to sound great. Parasound is a great match for Kef speakers. I have JC1 mono blocks and Kef R900s downstairs and Parasound 2125 and C2 Halo preamp driving the LS50s. I paid $1500 US for the entire LS50 system (bought the amp and preamp used and LS50s on sale) and it sounds amazing. I'm very susceptible to listening fatigue and I can turn that system up quite loud and have a smile on my face for hours. The upgrade to the C2 Halo really sweetened up the highs and overall sound. We get speakers really cheap on sale in Canada. I paid $660 US for LS 50s, $550 US for RTI A9's, $220 US for Kef Q100/150s (the best bang for the buck in my opinion) and $2650 US for my Kef R 900s. All were brand new, not open box.
My point is, buy quality speakers on sale and buy used higher end gear. You don't need to break the bank to have a sweet sounding system.
It's all about the source and room. I have diy full range speakers with a rel sub. Can't afford pass labs stuff but found a threshold stais amp and fet 10 pre amp used. Schiit bifrost, soundsmith zepher coupled with Graham slee phono, I'm in audio nirvana finally after a journey thru lesser equipment.
I second your comment about the Magnepan LRS speakers. Sure, they’re “only” $650. However, without a serious amplifier system, they really aren’t any fun. I finally settled on a pair of Schiit Vidars (2 x $700 class A/B imono rated @ 400 watts into ohms in mono, not rated into 4 ohms but gotta be a lot). Now they really cut loose, fantastic soundstage and resolution, especially in the mids. Oh, you need to add a subwoofer too. Still, I can shut down the Vidars if I’m really rocking on the LRS’s. We’re not talking head-banging loud, just loud, serious rock-n-roll for an hour. The Vidar’s overheat and go into protection mode.
BTW, I also have a pair of Klipsch Forte IIs, a very efficient set of speakers. These will play and play well with fewer watts. With the Vidars the Forte’s are amazing. They have so much more punch and definition. This is consistent with the remarks by Sean Casey (Zu Audio) the other day when he said that even hugely efficient speakers (e. g. Zu’s) benefit from more power.
Quicksilver tube gear is among the best value in power gear. They do not spend money sending gear to reviewers or for advertising and they sell direct. I would hope you would review it at some point if you have not.
Finally what I always have said!The last component I would upgrade is my speakers! You can make your current speakers sound much better by upgrading your electronics as mentioned by Steve.Upgrade your source first is my motto either table or cdp probably turntable will make a huge difference. Thanks Steve.
8:06. The Parasound Halo Integrated 6 is colloquially shortened to Hint 6, but it’s not the official name.
i agree with Steve, at least for audiophiles. but then any audio advice is for us audiophiles anyways.
in one instance i would recommend changing your speakers, when you got ported or passive radiator cabinet design. especially when you are in the future adding subwoofer it is going to be messy. always go with sealed box or open baffle design if you got the space for it.
I have a pair of first generation NHT Super One two way bookshelf speakers. Bought new in ‘97. Sealed acoustic suspension, 86db rated. I have only driven them with modest receivers over the years, and have always wondered how they would scale with serious amplification. I’m thinking they would really light up with and sing with a quality amp.
Totally agree here. My Musical Fidelity A5 amp is twice as expensive as my B&W 603 S3 speakers, but they drive them so well, I'm happy to keep them.
very good advise Steve , I have personally put very good sounding amplifiers in front of average speakers and been surprisingly amazed. The speakers you listed are a good example , I would add Tekton Lores . The idea being a high sensitivity speaker allows a low watt amplifier yet delivers dynamic sound , the Zu's and the Tektons amazing top to bottom response with not much amplification . But imho your approach is very solid.
Agree that signal is tremendously significant in the system balance, and that simply upgrading speakers often leads to sub-optimal results, and eventual full system upgrade. However... before you take the tack of upgrading around (or for) your current speakers, you really need to know that they're the ones you'd like to stay with for a few years. Because if they're not really getting it done, or better said, you've heard the speakers you really like somewhere else, then building a system that's optimized around something you'd replace if you had your druthers may have you upgrading your electronics twice. I do completely agree that excellent electronics that are well matched to existing speakers will bring out sound quality that you probably haven't heard from them before, and may not have realized they were capable of...
My order of solving the sound... Acoustics>source>build different type of speakers>new amps. I will grant you this... the acoustics thing took 3 years, the source thing got sorted quickly (but allows ongoing tuning) and the speakers took a year to develop... and the second new amp arrives on Monday. All up, 3 years of work, result, 3 acoustically sorted rooms and 3 groovy systems, all of a different sound style. Oh yeah, and happiness.
I spend most of the money on speakers and would hope to get the room right too. Not a big believer in massive changes in amps aside from tube amps or ones with particular flavouring, then you get to solved problems like cables.
Speakers have always brought about the biggest changes assuming your room is constant, and not ultra treated. A well treated room would enhance many speakers. Of course certain types need different attention, eg open baffles vs horn speakers
The higher upstream should be the better quality items, including the cables:
- source: lossless like Apple Music
- streamer: like Eversolo DMP-A6 then upgraded to a LPS
- DDC: has a LPS like Denafrips Iris 12th
- DAC: has a LPS like Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1, iFi supanova noise cancelling power cable
- preamp: Parasound 2100 , iFi supanova noise cancelling power cable
- amp: NAD C298 .005% THD
- cables: Cardas Clear USB, Cardas Parsec RCA
- speakers: high quality ribbon tweeter like GoldenEar BRX with AMT ribbon tweeter
I have the Magnepan 0.7 speakers and knowing my beloved VAC PA 80 80 set in triode ( 35 watts) just wouldn't have enough juice even though it has 8, 4,& 2 ohm taps to drive the Maggie's I found a used Spectron musical MK lll class D amp that puts out 500@8ohm, 650@4ohms & 1,200@2ohms
It will also hold 65 amps for 500 milseconds
The beast weights 52 lbs!
I love this amp! and because it's used, I'm praying it doesn't go up in a puff of smoke!
The Spectron really makes my 0.7's come alive! Even at lower volume, there is so much inner micro detail, huge soundstage and the energy in everthing from a guitar strum to a strike on a the piano keys. So I suppose it's considered an upgrade even though I bought it used, but it sure made a big difference in the sound quality of my Maggie's
Anthem Integrated Amp that allows to run ARC room correction - makes a huge difference with trying to do best correcting responce in a given room.
Say what you will but...I had several (pairs) of speakers hooked up to my Pioneer sx-750 and my Pioneer SC-55 and nothing compares to better speakers. Speaker efficiency is the key. Good clean power is secondary. Now I'm talking about lo-end (on the cheap, very cheap) Audiophile stuff, most of which I bought a goodwill or garage sales.
Next upgrade for me is a phono preamp, followed by the IOTAVX PA3 mate to my existing SA3.
I did this, but had to realize that my speakers were not very able to really reveal the differences in the front end, so the value of upgrading was somewhat wasted. I then upgraded to new speakers that were pretty revealing and found that the components were either not to my liking (now that I could actually appreciate them) or simply mismatched to the new speakers (b&w 605 -> b&w 805). It took me a long time to get the new speakers to sing and looking back I would have preferred to upgrade everything at once at the dealer. Morale of the story, I guess this approach applies better to speakers that will actually scale with the front end and in case your get new speakers, plan on getting some that are easy to match to a variety of gear or do a healthy home trial.
As an acoustician I can tell you the most important is the room acoustics with the speakers and the placement. Way more important than the most expensive amps or dacs
I'm nowhere near an expert, but I intuit this only makes sense.
This is 100% true, and is what I encourage most people to do as it yields the biggest bang for the buck. However... what's also true is that there are tons of people out there who simply aren't interested in throwing 'stuff' onto their walls or into their living space. The aesthetic of their home/room is as important, if not more important than the sound system within that space. For them, treatment of any kind is a no fly zone. Be it purpose-built solutions, rugs, or pretty much anything that's not already a part of the existing decour. For those people, and I suspect there's a huge number, the only recourse is to try and select the best transducers that work for your space and then, if you find yourself going further down the rabbit hole, to consider Steves advice.
True, I've seen rather well-heeled people spending 4-5 grand on compact speakers and then place them virtually at their work desk with only the minimum amount of amplification provided by some 500 bucks amp or even multimedia receiver. Needless to say, > 75 % of the performance is being missed.
Yes, while I'm not even close to being an expert of some sort, my experience and ears concur.
It has such a big impact, even a few friends of mine that aren't into music at all can hear it.
Absolutely! The best advice on this trail of comments. The acoustics of any system controls about 95% of the sound quality of the consumer portion of the chain. On the production side of the chain, the recording, mix, and mastering controls about 95% of that side.
The backbone of my system is the Audio-gd nfb11.28 dac/amp/pre and NAD 2700 THX power amp. Sources are cheapo bluray player and Chromecast Audio and speakers are Elac Debut B6. I'll be upgrading the Chromecast with the Allo Digione streamer and cables.
Well Steve, I'm still happy with the gear I own, the last upgrade or better said was the cartridge. Every 5 years I do buy a new one. Amps and turntable's stay the same as long as I will live.
Agree 100%. Even my cheap edifiers I use for PC sound amazing now that I hooked them through external dac and tubes...
@Steve Guttenberg: This is great advice, but I think you overlooked one, or you are not aware of this gem: The Crown XLS 2502, which costs only around $600.00! It can drive any set of speakers. At 8 ohms, it's rated at 440 watts at 4 ohms, 775 watts and get this, bridged at 1550 watts! Plus, it is said that it has little or no coloration., which in my opinion is an audiophile's wet dream. I think it's probably one of the best class D amps on the market. Please look this one up. You will be pleasantly surprised.
Good advice, source should be the best you can afford in your budget, old saying rubbish in rubbish out. My system Ariston RD11s turntable, Infinity black widow tonearm with damping through, ADC XLM MK111 with a tonar Shibata Stylus, amplifier Denon PMA 1080R, Transparent wave 200 speaker cable, and Three way open baffle speakers on Still point feet. I'm in heaven. keep up the great work Steve great Video's.
Oh, damn, I upgraded my speakers 😱 ...
... from Polk S20E's to Wharfedale Denton 80 anniversary, as they just fit better in my 2 channel system consisting of a Yamaha CR-800 & a Dual 1209 turntable.
It's incredible how the Wharfedales just fit from their characteristics so much better to old gear and vinyl records.
Im sorry Steve however my next upgrade will be a subwoofer : however after that I may consider another Intergrated amp just to see how Klipsch RP600'S respond
A better speaker will not improve on a bad signal, it will make the bad signal more obvious. Put the money on the source!
hi steve. great video .tubes at the front end should be mandatory. it would be great if you can compare The Harbeth P3ESR to the 40th anniversary edition and explain what is the actual tonal difference caused by each upgrade,since most of the audio components are generally made under a certain dogma which is either vintage or modern and it's hard to isolate the difference if we notice it at all. when we compare the new and old versions there are sometimes 7 different components and if you had a choice you would loose some of them because you don't care about the change they make,or can't tell a difference or think it's too pricey.
Steve, love your channel. I have a home theater system that is also used for music. Currently running a 7.2.2 setup using a Marantz 6012 receiver, Elac Uni-Fi front towers, Uni-Fi bookshelfs on the side, Uni-Fi center channel and Elac- UB5s for the rear. I have a pair of SVS SB-2000 subs and a pair of SVS Prime Elevation speakers for my Atmos surrounds. I am considering adding another pair of SVS Prime Elevation speakers to give myself the full Atmos effect. To do this I'll need to get an external AMP as my receiver is only a 9.2 with 11.2 capability with and external AMP. I'm looking at the Marantz 7055 5 channel amp since it should compliment the receiver and allow me the ability to drive my front 3 speakers to relieve the load on my receiver and give me flexibility in the future to expand to a 13.2 receiver in the future. I was also looking the Emotiva and Monoprice amps although those seem more expensive in comparison to what the Marantz amp provides me. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions? I mainly use my system for home theater but listen to music about 25% of the time.Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Chris, I don't really have any advice, but I'm running a VERY similar system. Sr6012, ub5 front and back, 4 debut atmos speakers, and the larger elac sub. I've been thinking about adding a pair of uf5s for the front, and moving a pair of the ub5s to the surround backs. Right now I'm looking at the emotiva basx a 300 to run the extra channels. Just thought it was fun to talk some shop, as it were.
@@warrenxanthos8241 the Uni-Fi speakers are a considerable upgrade!
Don't forget about how good restored vintage speakers can be. I have a bunch that sound very good. Like Cizek ones and Spica SC50 and even the original Advents.
Fluance RT-85 with an Ortofon 2M Blue, Schiit Mani phono pre, Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH and Cambridge Soundworks Bi-polar Towers by Henry Kloss speakers bi-wired. Also a Dual 1229 with a Shure M91ED and a Realistic Lab-400 with a Shure M97XE. That’s for my vinyl. I’m done and just can’t afford anything better. Good thing I’ve learned contentment. I love my system 😊
Cable risers are the most important part of a system.
Be careful as some folks might take you seriously!
I think hanging cables from the ceiling will be the next trend.
So I just did what Steve said we shouldn't do and...he was right. I would have gotten better results if I had upgraded the rest of my system, my old speakers were perfectly fine!
It’s not the speakers or electronic that I wish to upgrade. It’s the listening room. I have a budget for a far more premium speaker but in the back of my mind I know that my current speakers will sounds a lot better in a correct room. However to construct and move to a new room is so much work to do.
I'm guessing I'm on a much lower budget than you. Lately I'm thinking about foregoing rooms and speakers altogether and going to headphones even though I don't like them as much. It would make things so much more affordable and get rid of things like worrying about the room.
One of your best videos, Steve. Such honest, simple and comprehensive recommendations for both the starting and lifelong audiophiles. Covering so many options and variables to consider for your own system. I love the fact that your recommendations would last years and years with modern technology blended with old school sound qualities. Appreciate all you do, stay safe and healthy! We can’t lose you to this crazy pandemic!
Hi Steve
The Parasound HINT 6 is the
Parasound H alo INT egrated 6 (th version)
Best Regards
Good list but a few more speakers in $2500-$5K range balance out a $2K ClassD or others proffered IMHO.The Denafrips DAC as per Seans review deserves a look with Hestia&Hyperion as a stack.Am hoping you might check out one of the new(ish) Revels M126Be @ $4K or the truly new M226Be @ $7K.Again that ist of speakers well if your going to mention tham why not have included something at a bit more (Tekton DI or Harbeth's of some sort).Just wondering nobody gets hurt if you ask right?
I’m surprised this is a new thing. In the uk, going back to the 70’s it was always upgrade source first, speaker last.
Yup I was about to post the same comment. I remember the mantra, expensive speakers ruthlessly reveal the shortcomings of inadequate source and amplifier. Makes sense. So the recommendations would always be to get the best turntable, usually Linn, then see what you have left in the budget for the rest of the system.
Great idea for a video Steve. Very helpful ... even for a long-time audiophile like myself. Bravo.
I have the Emotiva T1 (original version) so I appreciate Steve’s insight about “next steps”. But I’ll assert that owners of “home theater in a box” or speaker-bar units ought not assume THEIR next steps should be electronics. They need a speaker step up first, to any of the models Steve mentioned.
Same speaker here. Killer home theater. Using Parasound 275 NewClassic. What’s your power?
@@orwhat24 Mine currently on a Yamaha Receiver nominally 100 watts 2 channels driven. But the receiver outputs via RCA to separate amp so that’s my future upgrade. On the fence about D class vs A/B class.