I ABSOLUTELY love my Malibu.....originally I wasn't sure....... then I got my first Malibu...... and just fell in love with it....carrying it... using it.... and it looks good next to other knives....
I actually think aluminum is one of the most underrated handle materials. It gets such a bad rap but it's very strong, light weight, rigid, and just works. If you can put up with that "Boba Fett" look, it's awesome and will last generations.
Yeah, you're definitely right on all those counts: from a material properties perspective, it's a really smart choice, especially the high grades of aluminum companies at Protech's level use. I just can't get myself past the feel and sound of it. Wish I could. I actually just bought another aluminum handled knife a few days ago to keep trying to like it. Because it really does perform well!
Honestly, my advice would probably be to sell them both. As it stands, you have ~$700 in two knives that frustrate you. One is unsatisfying because you don’t like the feel of its weight or the little aesthetic details, the other is unsatisfying because every sound it makes reminds you that you don’t like its materials, and you’ll probably be hesitant to use both because you don’t want to mark up something you’re always wondering about selling. You’d be better off just waiting to see if they ever make a version you’ll enjoy, rather than sitting on a version that will never be what you want. You touched on something I’d never given a lot of conscious thought until I briefly discussed it with someone a couple weeks ago: how unappealing aluminum scales are on knives. I consider flashlights more my thing than knives, so I have plenty of anodized aluminum around, and it’s a good, practical material… when you want a strong and light milled tube that transfers heat effectively. It’s fine and expected. But transfer that material to a knife and my reaction is completely different: oh, this is like a gas station knife or something? Or an 80s Rambo knife? The enduring popularity of the BM 940 really surprises me, especially in this era of everything going premium, because aluminum just feels like such a cost cutting material. Steel is heavy and costs more to mill but looks and wears better. FRN has high upfront mold costs, but wears better. G10, micarta, titanium, brass, copper, etc all cost more but wear better and come with other benefits to a knife user. But aluminum is just… another option… with no real benefits in use… I guess for when all the money was spent somewhere other than where the knife meets the user. I don’t get why anyone bothers with it, but someone must find it appealing. Exception: Swiss Army Knives. The cellidor is iconic, but the alox is a big upgrade in sturdiness and grip. Have to get the clear ano silver for them to wear well, but then they hold up much better than the shiny plastic. Your comparison of how different knives of the same weight carry their weight differently reminded me of the only time I’ve heard a knife company mention paying attention to that feeling. Many years ago Benchmade said somewhere that they tend to design their knives with the weight a little forward so that the blades feel “alive” in use, rather than having dead weight sitting in the hand and making the blade feel weightless.
Hey Iain! Always love when you comment -- they're always so well thought-out! You're absolutely right. It makes no sense to hold on to things of such value if they're not exactly what I want, especially when so many other people might enjoy them fully. I just listed the Ti one (for what I paid for it) and it sold in 15-20 minutes. Clearly other folks want it more than me! It's a fantastic knife and I'm sure it'll make someone super happy. And someday if they make a milled out version, that'll make me super happy. I think you're right that both oughta go, but I might hold onto the Al one just to be able to flip it a few more times. It's immensely satisfying action, even when it leaves you knowing it can be so much better. Hahah, I'm glad you understand my feelings on aluminum. I agree with what you said completely: it just *feels* cheap, in a lot of different ways. There's different grades of aluminum, and some are actually incredibly strong and durable, like 7075 for example (parts-badger.com/6061-vs-7075-aluminum/). There's also different Al anodization finishes (e.g., Type III Hardcoat -- www.chemprocessing.com/page.asp?pageid=65). But a long history (and still abundance) of cheap aluminum knives just leaves them feeling... bad. And there's just no escaping the hollow, high-pitched qualities that come with their lack of density. Yes, that literal hollowness makes it lightweight, and in a great number of use cases light weight is very important. But there's a lot of ways and great materials with which weight reduction can be achieved without the negative side effects. Especially in the reasonably high-end market that Pro-Tech competes in, it just feels like they could "do better". I know, "for aluminum," _Pro-Tech's_ aluminum is supposed to be great. But why even bother? The weight thing is interesting, and not something you hear people talk a lot about in folding knives. You *do* hear people talk a lot about it in kitchen knives, and so I would assume also fixed blades (though that's not really my thing). I used to buy/sell kitchen knives as a side hustle, and had a lot of friends in the back-of-house side of the restaurant industry. The weight balance and how a knife moves with your hand is one of the first things chefs talk about when they're excited about a new knife they just got. PS -- if you're a flashlight guy, wanna give me some flash light recommendations? Doesn't need to be anything fancy, or insanely bright. And while I might take it camping, it's _not_ something I'd carry with me on a daily basis (just not a use case I run into often enough.) I'd like continuous-variable brightness controls, potentially with a twist dial, but press-and-hold or whatever is fine. Rechargeable would be ideal (and USB-C), or at a minimum a pretty standard battery type. Don't go researching or anything, but if you already know of stuff that might fit, lemme know!
@@KnifeNerdery Hey, that’s great news about the quick sale! You were able to try it out for yourself and gain a lot of insight into what you want from them, without even paying a depreciation penalty. Speaking of aluminum often feeling like the “wrong” material in knife applications… There’s just one Pro-Tech that interests me. Apparently they name their folders after coastal California towns, and the Cambria is named after my hometown. I kind of like the shape of it, so there’s a temptation to have my town’s knife, but… ha, aluminum. I don’t think I could get over it at that price. If it were G10 I’d be giving it serious consideration just because of the name. The kitchen knife comparison is interesting. I’ve had too many folders that made me think, did anyone try holding this in hand before giving it the green light? Cutting with it? Opening, closing? But a kitchen knife, or any real work knife, it either works properly or it doesn’t. I think there’s a lot that manufacturers can get away with in the EDC folder market that would get laughed out of a serious kitchen or work use. Fixed blades aren’t really my thing either (I’m in CA and can’t carry them), but the impression I get is that weight is spoken of as either light and convenient or heavy enough to chop. I feel like balance doesn’t come up much. When it does, in fixed or folding knives, it’s usually just to say that it’s “well balanced,” whatever that means, or to show the point where it balances. After all these years, I’m still not sure if that data point means anything, but I think maybe BM was on to something: knives seem to feel better to use when balance is at index finger or just in front of it. It may be my imagination, but I think I can feel the position of the blade a little better. I imagine cooks would appreciate anything that makes them feel more precise, given how much they cut right next to their fingers. On topic of how a knife moves with the hand, this is a big part of why I think the Spyderco Military is the most “right” feeling knife I’ve used. It’s not just big and comfortable, it’s an extension of the hand, because the thumb on the ramp points straight through to the tip, and the blade feels precise despite the size. At least for my hand.
@@KnifeNerdery I’m afraid I probably can’t be much help with flashlights, but I’ll get into my thoughts a little, because someone who enjoys nerding out on knife details might find something interesting to think about in them. This will be a novel, as is always the case with me and flashlights, which I guess is part of the reason I haven't felt like I've had time to stay actively involved with them for some years. My era of greatest involvement was around 2004 to 2008, when single level 5mm LED arrays were just giving way to Luxeon power LEDs, which were still somewhat exotic enthusiast level emitters. Incandescents were still the ticket for high output, or HID if we were fancy. SureFire was king. I was involved enough in the CPF development discussion of the modern HDS lights that a tiny UI element I suggested ended up in the first Clicky firmware, some credited me with getting Henry to add the timed burst level to the design, and I became the serial number registrar for Clickies and Rotaries. I ran a small flashlight blog for a while, and I dabbled in incandescent “hotwire” mods when that was a thing… and survived. That’s why I say I’m more of a flashlight guy: they’ve been a part of my life, I’ve collected a few vintage models, and I’ve had some involvement with significant lights. Whereas with knives, I’ve carried them since I was 7, but I’m strictly a user and mediocre sharpener. I think that history is significant because I came to the flashlight hobby when we were still chasing adequacy, with in-depth analysis looking for barely visible improvements. Output was insufficient, light quality poor, runtime poor, but the people involved were so passionate and dedicated. Emphasis was often on a bright blaster and a dim light that ran forever. Then in 2006 the Cree revolution hit, suddenly we were flooded with LED lights that were fast approaching adequacy on all fronts. In the decade since then, things have continued to develop at unbelievable speed… maybe to the point that we no longer know what to do with the possibilities, or how to use the resulting lights well. I think the whole vibe is different now because LED lights have flown so far past adequacy that it no longer makes sense to obsess over them to the level we once did, so instead it’s more about fast-fashion and the fancy show-off piece. Perhaps the aspects I once found interesting have been largely consigned to the past. So with that preamble, I don’t think I can help for a couple reasons: 1) I’m old fashioned; none of the lights I carry appear in the EDC photos that are now such a part of the modern knife community. I carried HDS button interface lights from 2006 to 2017, then a technically impressive but not entirely satisfying AA powered ZebraLight for a few years (good brand though, but nothing like you want). As of this year, my EDC is a high-CRI McGizmo Haiku, which in knife terms is a $500 mid-tech semi-custom. It’s a beautifully made piece of titanium and sapphire with great ergonomics, a top quality-over-quantity LED, and one of the most useful matches of emitter and reflector I’ve ever seen. But, it’s also a ~12 year old design with electronics that are maybe a little rough by modern standards, and while ~200 lumens is an incredibly bright pocket light in absolute terms (especially given exceptional quality of light), it’s relatively low power these days and not making any attempt to compete with the 3000lm cannons of today. It’s a wonderful light for my needs and preferences, but it’s definitely niche, and most these days will likely see it as an incredibly expensive antique that isn’t nearly as bright as most cheap lights now. But when I went looking for a new light, I found this decade old legend was the only thing that interested me. 2) Because of my era of flashlight experience, priorities, and my need for quality of light, I literally have zero experience with the kind of light you’re looking for. USB rechargeable lights didn’t come along until after I’d sort of lost interest in where lights were going, so I’ve never used one. Without diving into research, I can’t even name a brand that makes such a light. Fenix probably does, because they’ve become such a major player, and they’re fine, but I’ve never been impressed with them. Sunwayman was an early rotary controlled maker, but I don’t even know if they still exist. I’m sure there are lots of popular new brands I’ve never even heard of. And I’ve never used that interface (not counting Peaks with non-electronic Quantum Tunneling Composite adjustment). A lot of people regard continuously variable as the ultimate interface, but I’ve avoided them for a few reasons, both psychological and technical. First and foremost, I like to know exactly how much light I’m outputting and how much battery I’m burning, regardless of my level of dark acclimation, and variable lights tend to get turned up more than they’re turned down, because we naturally adjust to where our eyes are now instead of trying to get them to adjust to a lower level and work more effectively. So my preference is for a few rigidly defined and widely spaced outputs I can select to match the situation. The second reason is that a change in output is barely noticeable if it’s less than a doubling. You’ll miss a 1.5x increase if you’re not watching closely enough or blink. For a really significant difference in how much you can see you’re better with a 4x change. While rotary controls probably have an ergonomic enjoyment to them, and they’re intuitive, I think people tend to overestimate how much benefit they’ll get from being able to fine tune output on the fly. It becomes a little like if we had to fine tune the angle a knife opens at each time: it might seem neat to be able to, but when the novelty wore off we’d probably find we just want the blade either at the one open angle we prefer, or closed. But plenty of people love them, so, while I don't entirely get the overwhelming popularity, reasonable minds can disagree. And infinitely variable ramping lights I find just cumbersome and clumsy. Third (minor) reason is electronic rotary controls have a power draw overhead, because their controller is always “listening” for rotary inputs, rather than just reacting to a button push. This is meaningless at typical outputs, but when you get down to the kinds of very low outputs that run for weeks, the rotary overhead can become a higher drain than what the LED is drawing, reducing those ultralow runtimes to days instead of weeks. Whether that’s a genuine practical concern or not is highly questionable, but kind of in the same way that you’re bothered by an ornate inlay on a knife with a rough finish, I’m bothered by the thought that my electronics are throwing away low level efficiency in favor of a control method that leads to less efficient usage. It strikes me as inelegant design and sort of offends me on principle if nothing else. Or maybe I'm just salty because the 2nd gen HDS Clicky switched to the same hardware as the newly introduced Rotary, so it has the poor minimum output runtimes of a rotary control without the control. That said, while I’m not necessarily recommending HDS (I get the feeling you’d find them bulky and heavy at 1” diameter and 3.6oz), and even though they’ve moved focus to rotary controls and have played a part in popularizing that method, their FAQ has the best explanation I’ve seen of how to use flashlights effectively, using defined levels, with inverse square law and the capabilities of our eyes in mind, and I think it's good food for nerdy thought. It’s under Operational Considerations/How can I see further: www.hdssystems.com/Content/LightFaq/ So I guess that’s my input. I can’t suggest any brands or models, unless the HDS Rotary strikes your fancy (actually maybe the Rotary would be nearly ideal if you’re not going to be carrying it, and don’t mind small defined steps instead of a smooth ramp), and you should of course look for whatever appeals to your specific preferences and uses, but those are some of my flashlight considerations that have steered me in a different direction from the rotary and ramping interfaces. I’ll say this though: for a perfectionist with an exceptional eye for detail, flashlights are a dangerous path, same as knives. You might start to have strong opinions about button sound and feel, beam width and distribution, color temperature, CRI, PWM, methods of regulation, battery type, mode memory, etc. Tread this path with caution…
The Cambria is a really interesting knife! It is, as far as I've always heard it described, the first-ever manual flipper knife from Pro-Tech, and it also kicked off their now three-part series of button-lock flippers! The stepped-relief contouring of the handle is a really cool look that reminds me of topographical maps or nautical charts. No idea how that feels in hand, but as long as the edges aren't sharp (and they're definitely not), it probably feels fine. The part of Pro-Tech's manual button-lock flipper evolution that I find most interesting is their refinement of the action itself. I've never handled the Cambria or the Mordax, but Jake over at Bearded Gear (if you don't sub his channel, go check it out -- he puts out some of the best content I've found) has a side-by-side-by-side of all three and talks specifically about how the action itself has changed, mostly in terms of its crispness and how tactile it is. That's part of what makes the Malibu *so* impressive -- it has just a delightful and unique tactile feel to operate. I think that's a great observation about kitchen knives -- or really anything that is being sold *solely* as a tool to industry professionals: it simply _has_ to perform, or it will not survive in the market. I'm wholeheartedly confident that goes away for kitchen knives once you enter the high-high-end custom side, where they become just as much art as tool, but anything used in an actual kitchen? If there's something better that'll get the job done faster or more easily, they'll just switch. As far as balance, that phrase you said -- "an extension of your hand" -- is one I've heard many times in those aforementioned conversations, and it's an ideal I think all knives should strive for at some level. All knives that are actually meant to be used, at least. The balance point is a big part of it, but the distribution that achieves that balance point is even more crucial -- imagine a knife that was weighted almost entirely toward the center; it'd have a balance point right where you want it, but would feel so awkward and unwieldy. But you're right, a balance point right around the index finger is great. Too far past that and the blade feels like it's swinging around without you, and you're left trying to curb its momentum. Too far behind that and you lose sense of the blade altogether, as the weight you're feeling isn't corresponding to where and how the tip is moving. I've not held a Military, but I can definitely understand what you mean. Big or small, neither inherently mean good or bad when it comes to ergonomics or balance -- a well designed knife is a well designed knife either way.
@@KnifeNerdery I like that description of balance distribution. Going back to my teenage sports car obsessive days, a knife with high polar moment of inertia is probably going to feel more alive and controllable than one that’s quick and nimble due to too much weight in the middle. A knife that’s extremely tail heavy will just feel like it’s working against you. What makes a sports car responsive but jittery will make a knife awkward and disconnected feeling. What makes a car balanced and stable will make a knife balanced and controllable. Going back to that Spyderco Equilibrium I was bagging on a while back, what an ironic name considering that it’s a thin 1” blade at the end of a finger choil and sold steel handle that extends 2” into the hand. It might feel functional and precise by sheer virtue of smallness, but it can never actually feel balanced and alive.
I get your take. I have never liked any all metal knives, until I got the Malibu. Love it, and. a little bit amazed that, for being the defacto "knife of the year" for 2020, I don't see videos of anyone carrying it as their EDC. I do, for now.
Ah dang, I just realized this is the older version of this video. 😣 I re-edited it with drop-in photos showing off the change in handle and back-spacer colors, and other fun stuff like that. Oh well, probably not worth re-uploading. Just imagine I'd done a buncha fancier editing in post 😜 Also hence the "Stay tuned for a Rockwall unboxing" comment about a video that already hit the channel. I've introduced a continuity error into the Knife Nerdery space-time continuum! 😲
And maybe something alot of ppl don't know about protech.....is at ANY point in the knives life.... you can send it back to protech and they will refinish your knife for you!!!!and maybe it's just me.... but once I found that out.... it totally changed the way I feel about actually carrying and using them....I have a 1of 1 sng with gcarta scale that I originally got just to collect.... but knowing that now...I carry all my protechs.... thanks man great video
I agree Kev! I never handled it but I would think the price would be somewhere in the $100-$150 more range due to the titanium, milling and mother of pearl. That being said I believe they started to high and are benefiting from the popularity of the Malibu, The same versions with Damascus are more expensive than the base price of many custom knives
not to make it sound like i'm okay with their prices but historically every non-standard pro-tech with a ti handle was WAY over the top in terms of $$$
It's so interesting. I have a full PVD Malibu I recently received, and you've said all the things that I have been thinking, but may not have been able to put into words. The aluminum and the black PVD coating give the exact feeling you've described. I'm afraid to take it outside in fear that the pocket clip will bump up against something and that shiny silver will come through. The "Tink" noise that the aluminum makes gives me the (wrong) impression that the knife is delicate and should be handled accordingly. It doesn't help that mine is a Blade Show 2021 limited run of 200, so I want to touch it EVEN LESS. I actually just recently decided I was no longer going to buy knives with handles with PVD or DLC coating, because no matter how much I WANT to, I can never bring myself to use them in fear of them being marred irreparably.
Exactly! There's all of these little factors that add up to a false sense of frailty and barrier to use. And while some of them are demonstrable and true (they _do_ scratch easier, no questions asked), so much of it is just psychological -- it _feels_ less sturdy and more vulnerable than it actually is. And especially when you add in a unique or limited edition factor, it can just feel so wrong to mar up its pristine specialness knowing that you are defiling one of the only ones in existence. Well, to a whole lot of folks, anyhow. I'm sure there are also plenty of people who just don't feel that sentimental apprehension. But also, so what! As I know you agree, it's perfectly fine for us to keep a pristine copy around just to admire, play with, or preserve for whatever archival pleasure that brings. The vast majority of my knives are things I want to cut with, so I tend to prefer a user finish that eliminates that "but I might scratch it" trepidation. But if something's absolutely gorgeous and I want to keep it that way, so be it!
Smaller tooling is the main ingredient in not showing tooling marks. I'm 30 year vested manual machinist...knives are a wonderful way to produce the imagination and ability of the trade...I love my job.....and great surface can be achieved via conventional milling ideology and methods of tooling and speeds and feeds...Cheers..
I don't agree i love this knife an i like aluminum because its lite an strong . Its probably one of the hardest knifes to get your hands on, there's a reason for that.
Yeah, I can definitely understand why people love it. And you're right! Aluminum has great structural properties. I wish it *felt* different in hand, but it is a smart choice from a lot of perspectives for sure.
agreed, for 500 bucks they could've milled out the scales, i mean if kizer can do it on $150 ti-framelocks..come on pro-tech.. i have a knife from the swiss company klotzli, it has a damasteel blade, milled scales damn near perfect drop-shut button-lock action (on washers!) and absolutely flawless fit'n'finish, and it was hand made but "only" 80$ more. i'd never trade that one for a ti-malibu (i have the regular magnacut version anyway).
I answered your similar question comparing Kizer to WE/Civivi, but this is definitely an interesting alternative. If you're comparing to US-based companies that operate in the budget space and produce their knives overseas (e.g., Gerber, CRKT, etc), Kizer knives are usually significantly nicer for a given price point. If you start comparing yo US-made knives (Benchmade, ZT, TRM, etc), you start finding more direct competition and sometimes nicer pieces coming out of the US, but not at the same price points. If you step up to high-end US manufacturing (CRK, Hinderer, etc), you start finding significantly nicer-made knives, but again, they'll now be *much* more expensive. But, just as importantly, they'll be markedly *different* -- Hinderer makes bulky, tanky knives for example; you might very well prefer the lighter weight, drop-shuttier, EDC-focused knives Kizer puts out even if they're not as "high quality".
Yeah I can definitely see that. I welcomed most of the changes, but it still ultimately wasn't "perfect" for me yet. But I am confident they'll keep making these, and someday I expect they'll make a version that's right up my alley.
@@KnifeNerdery I fully understand how it goes. I am huge into modding knives and made my favorite knife through mods. It started off as a dlt trading hinderer battle black xm-18 no choil slicer. I hade the slicer blade reground and now has a nice full flat satin finished blade, green hardware on the lock side, black canvas frag pattern micarta scale with a lanyard hole delete, and after market Gillian knives ceramic bearings that stay smooth as heck without cleaning weekly (I’m a cabinet maker have a lot of sawdust). This is my most carried knife and my work knife. I really badly want to do the same thing but with a skinny no choil slicer.
That sounds awesome!! Yeah, that is definitely one of the coolest developments in the community in the last decade: the rise of a very large modding community. There's now so many third party parts you can use, so many talent tinkerers willing to do outlandish and amazing things to knives, and so many helpful folks willing to teach you how to do stuff yourself. There's something just so satisfying about making a knife you loved *exactly* the way you always wished it could be.
Thanks! I really didn't expect how this one turned out, so it seemed like a good idea to share my thinking in case someone else might feel the same way.
It seems like a really obvious, low-hanging-fruit improvement they could make. I don't think I would have even hesitated about the knife if they'd shaved off an ounce with some deep weight relief pockets inside. So I assume they _have_ to do it at some point (given its wild success, the Malibu seems like it'll stick around in their lineup), I'm just worried it'll also come with a $600 price tag! 😝
My thoughts on the aluminum are that any scratches are basically battle scars. Not really wanted, but hey, shit happens. Don't plan on reselling so not really worried personally. I'll probably still cry when it happens but the overall knife feel and design outweigh any scratching that will happen.
Hahah, yes, that is the healthier attitude I keep aspiring to. And for the most part, I'm getting there. I was actually relieved when someone hit-and-run bashed in the bumper and headlight of my car just two weeks into owning it -- they "broke the seal", so to say, and I was no longer worried about the countless dings and scratches that have been put on it since.
Oh interesting! I just got it out and listened carefully to the different noises it makes as it closes. The actual swing downward is virtually silent if I'm holding the button down to sufficiently remove pressure on the blade. And if I hold it parallel to the floor and let the blade just hang down and swing back and forth, that too is basically silent. There's basically three noises going on that make up the "ker-think!" sound: 1) The initial click as I suppress the button, thanks to the residual (and at this point I'm assuming permanent, 'cause I've had this for many months) button stick. Whether yours makes this part would be based on how much button-stick your knife still has. 2) The pretty loud "tink" sound of the knife hitting the stop pin again in the closed position, and that reverberation traveling through the aluminum handles. I assume yours would make this too -- if you fully suppress and hold the button the entire time, and just let the blade bounce off the closed position, I assume it goes "tink tink tink" every time it hits, right? 3) A "thunk"-click noise (literally sounds like the word "thick") as the button clicks back into the closed detent position. And this noise is mostly caused by the timing with which I release the button on the downward swing -- I'm releasing the button right before it reaches the closed position (so that the button detent will catch the blade and prevent it from bouncing), and thus it's fully free to click back into place at full spring force. But if yours is doing all those things and just doing them markedly more quietly, how free-falling is your blade? Mine is falling with essentially zero resistance, so it reaches a pretty high velocity by the time it's fully closed. All of the noises I described get even louder if I intentionally swing the blade closed, increasing that speed. If you find yours is falling more slowly, it could be that the bearings need to be cleaned out and re-lubed. Or, if it's very new, they might just need to wear in a little. The last thing I noticed is that if you push the button down _really_ far, you'll actually start putting friction on the _top_ side of the blade, which will slow the blade down a lot -- full free-fall requires the button to be pushed most, but not all, of the way down. (If you just look at the back as you're pushing in the button, you can see how there's a point where it's centered around the blade and no longer touching it.)
@@KnifeNerdery I guess what I dont hear is the high pitched noise and no reverb.. You know like when somebody hits a tuning fork that high pitched sound. I literally have heard everyone's on RUclips have that sound but mine maybe needs pivot loosened or broken in
Both of those could definitely impact it. The pivot, fortunately, is easy to test. Just loosen it a hair -- and check for centering! The last thing you want is to be swinging that free-fall blade around and have it smack into the scales at all! But if it's specifically the higher-pitched resonance you're missing, it might also have to do with how you're holding the knife -- both in terms of how firmly you're holding it and, more importantly, how much of your hand is making contact. Your tuning fork comparison is spot on -- that sound is the impact force resonating in the handle scales, so your hand will absorb that reverberation and dampen the sound. I just played around with different ways I could hold the knife while it was closing, and the more my hand is touching the scale, the less sound it makes. If I hold it in a pretty contrived way with both hands so that the entire handle scale is being touched by some part of my hands, that reverb sound is almost completely gone, and I'm left with a much more deadened "thunk". My _typical_ way of holding it while closing -- based on the size of my hand and just what feels comfortable -- is with my thumb on the button (obviously), my index and middle finger just making contact at the tips, my ring and pinky on the clip (so not touching the scale itself at all), and the base of the knife pressed gently against my palm. Other than my thumb, the entire show-side of the knife isn't making contact at all, so none of that reverb is being dampened.
Ah, sorry, it's already gone! I'll be sure to update the description to let folks know it's no longer around. But best of luck in your hunt! I assume you'll love it -- it really is an amazing knife in so many ways!
Oh wow, I completely forgot to mention the balance problem when I filmed this! Thank you for bringing that up! But yes -- you're 100% correct. The balance on the Al version is pretty close to ideal, and the Ti version was significantly tail-heavy. This is definitely a knife that needs internal weight relief!!
@@KnifeNerdery ya I was lucky that my local knife shop got a couple in and I was able too handle the Ti version before pulling the trigger. That said I absolutely love my two aluminum versions. It will be interesting if anyone decides too do internal milling themselves on the Ti version.
It sucks when you buy a beautiful knife but then you try to operate it and hold then your feeling meh. I felt the same way about the Shaman. I thought man that’s a awesome looking knife that I’ll never be able to afford. I got a better job and could actually get one and did and in a exclusive. Then I got it and was thinking damn they didn’t think this all the way through when they designed it. It left me with the feeling of sadness and buyers remorse instead of being happy about my purchase. So now I’m like damn do I keep it and use it or do I just sell it and wait for a gen 2 when they improve it if that ever happens?
Uggggh, I know, that feeling is awful. And when it's something you've been anticipating for a long time as you hunt it down or save up for it, that just magnifies that feeling even more! Sorry to hear the Shaman isn't doing it for ya. That's one of the Spydercos I've never handled, so what all would you want changed?
@@KnifeNerdery my biggest issue is the blade choil bump hits your finger when your closing it and prevents the knife blade from closing all the way till you move your finger out of the way. You can eliminate the bump but mine is a black dlc coated blade so that’s a no go. Had it been raw metal you could modify it and not really notice. Thing is that knife is $260 and shouldn’t be like that for that kind of price.
@@whatfreedom7 oh man I KNNOOOW! That is such an obvious design flaw. How the hell did that make it past the prototype stage? My Lil' Native does the exact same thing (but apparently not all do), and it's just such an obvious, fixable design mistake.
😝 Well despite filming this almost a full month ago (got busy and it took a while to edit this), I still haven't picked what I'm doing with these knives. Yes, I still have both. Yes, I'm now well past my 30-day return window. Yes, I still intend to get rid of one or (gasp) potentially both. Yes, I have bought even more new (and pricy) things that make me wish I had cleared up some funds already. Hmmm... 🤔
Several friends have one and say they significantly prefer it, so maybe someday? It's not high on my list because it's still aluminum handles, which is just not my thing haja
😲 No way, are they really?! I hope that was one of the Damascus ones or something, 'cause there's no way someone should pay that much did this version. (Not that I think the fancier Damascus ones are worth that either, but that's a different story. 😜)
🤣 I did not -- it's been gone for a while. I updated the description, but even I don't read descriptions, so I can't expect people to see that. I know the person who bought it off me also resold it a few weeks later, but I lost track of it after that. Hopefully it ended up with someone who adores it, 'cause I'm wholeheartedly confident some folks would.
@@KnifeNerdery What Malibu do you recommend? The knife is intriguing but I’m not convinced worth the money. 154 cm is a good steel but not on $200 knives.
@@BrutalJuice138 As far as I'm aware, Malibus have always been in 20CV, even the aluminum ones. As far as a recommendation, I'd say the aluminum one is undoubtedly the best value, but there's plenty of reasons you might go for the Ti, especially if you can get one for a good price. (But they're still pretty rare, so 🤷🏼♂️) I heard they recently did a very small number of Malibus in bronze handles for a show, but shockingly they only weigh 2.99oz because they (finally!!) introduced internal milling to lighten the weight. I'm really, really hoping that means future Ti handle ones will have that same milling pattern -- when they finally make that, that's the one for me.
I believe the 1 ounce per inch rule is a silly idea to subscribe to. I think that it limits manufacturers and doesn’t allow for creativity in the production of new knives. If everyone subscribe to this idea all knives would be the same. I believe that subscribing to this rule would eliminate critical thinking during the design process. perhaps having some knives that are designed for the handicapped, and for people who require a reasonable accommodations for their handicapped hands could get a prescription for the 1 ounce per inch knives that are available. perhaps there are some jobs that require smaller knives. However, I believe that people who need larger knives that fit their hands correctly would reduce the risk of accidents substantially. I suppose there is a Knife bill for every individual but I don’t believe that all knives should be judged on the 1 ounce per inch rule, because it just doesn’t fit everyone’s needs. I also believe that RUclips creators just use this rule to fill space so they have something to talk about. Why be like every other RUclips product reviewer? Do something new and throw that worthless information out.😊
Haha, well first things first I want to say that I absolutely agree with you that not every knife can or should fall within the roughly-an-ounce-an-inch window, nor should makers exclusively limit themselves to that as a design constraint. And I definitely don't think that a knife *needs* to fall within that window to be "good" or enjoyable to use. But the big thing I'd want to point out is that the "ounce-an-inch rule" was never a prescribed rule, but an observed one. Knives came first, observations came second. What I mean is, it's not an arbitrary standard someone set, but an observation of weight-to-size ratios and limits that tend to make *most* people think a knife feels light, comfortable, or heavy. If you make a knife that is roughly an ounce an inch, some will find it too heavy, some will find it too light, but the large majority of people will find it meets their expectations when they hold it and find it a comfortable weight to use. The problem you're describing, though, is when companies *only* produce for the "average" person. Even a "large majority" (for example, two-thirds) leaves a huge number of people's needs unmet. And as you pointed out, the same goes for size, independent of weight. The "average" person wants a knife in the 3-3.5" range, but there are plenty of people with small hands that want something smaller, and plenty with big hands that would be best suited with something potentially much bigger.
Omg you make problems out og nothing. I havd spend over 50K on knifes and Malibu is on my top 5 list. My is en brass finish. If the knife is heavy, you should do some more listing bro....
Ah, right, listing. I'm embarrassed I didn't think of that myself. Thanks for the recommendation! And sorry to hear about your bank account -- better luck next time!
I just got the Operator version. Cost me almost $600 Australian Dollars. It's a nice knife but i don't know if it's worth the price. Flipping action feels great. But I'm not a fan of the lock stick. Like it's a average knife in my opinion. Not worth the hype.
I had to look up what that was -- an all blacked out version, eh? Yeah, I think ultimately the Mailbu became pretty obviously over hyped. It's a solid knife for sure, and it was the first well-done button lock flipper detent to make waves, but it's just not THAT special of a knife when all is said and done. Good? Yes. But people hyped it to a level way beyond just good.
The lock stick goes away on its own once you break it in. I own three, all purchased brand new & came with mild lock stick but all run perfectly smooth now that I’ve broken them in.
Honestly I'd *love* one of the brown micarta/154CM versions WMK dropped -- hope they'll do a restock or I can find one on secondary. Any idea if that clip screw pattern is compatible with something deep carry?
Haha, the Malibu is just too fun to play with to not have _any_ version. But maybe I should while the secondary is still paying at or slightly above retail. Hmmm 🤔
No pocket knife feels like $500.. especially when a pocket knife at $150 200 can do and feel like any other knife. If you're not hurting for money, keep it. U can always sell a malibu down the road. I have the all black malibu 3v version $270 and I'm the same way. Already just fidgeting with the knife, it looks like a used knife. It drives me crazy how the coating on the aluminum wears down. And at almost $300, for me, I feel like it should be displayed in the man cave in pristine condition, not to be touched 😆 All that said, the fact that I love it makes up for all the flaws. 👍
Glad I'm not the only one! Just can't get over that feeling. But I know there are folks out there who *LOVE* aluminum handles! Different strokes, as they say.
Hahah, I'm sure the designers at Protech consider that a huge compliment. I know I would. 😝 But as always, that's one of the best parts of this hobby -- different folks can have such wildly different personal aesthetics. The more the merrier!
I ABSOLUTELY love my Malibu.....originally I wasn't sure....... then I got my first Malibu...... and just fell in love with it....carrying it... using it.... and it looks good next to other knives....
Go Bills. I love my Malibu too.
Interesting comments on this awesome knife and the “upgrade”! Frankly, I’d be quite happy with the $200 version. 😊 Good luck with your decision.
I actually think aluminum is one of the most underrated handle materials. It gets such a bad rap but it's very strong, light weight, rigid, and just works. If you can put up with that "Boba Fett" look, it's awesome and will last generations.
Yeah, you're definitely right on all those counts: from a material properties perspective, it's a really smart choice, especially the high grades of aluminum companies at Protech's level use. I just can't get myself past the feel and sound of it. Wish I could. I actually just bought another aluminum handled knife a few days ago to keep trying to like it. Because it really does perform well!
Great video. The haptic milling is so amazing. I just stare at mine from time to time.
Same! It was difficult picking which photos to drop in. As I flipped through the ones I took, it was just one 😯 after another.
Honestly, my advice would probably be to sell them both. As it stands, you have ~$700 in two knives that frustrate you. One is unsatisfying because you don’t like the feel of its weight or the little aesthetic details, the other is unsatisfying because every sound it makes reminds you that you don’t like its materials, and you’ll probably be hesitant to use both because you don’t want to mark up something you’re always wondering about selling. You’d be better off just waiting to see if they ever make a version you’ll enjoy, rather than sitting on a version that will never be what you want.
You touched on something I’d never given a lot of conscious thought until I briefly discussed it with someone a couple weeks ago: how unappealing aluminum scales are on knives. I consider flashlights more my thing than knives, so I have plenty of anodized aluminum around, and it’s a good, practical material… when you want a strong and light milled tube that transfers heat effectively. It’s fine and expected. But transfer that material to a knife and my reaction is completely different: oh, this is like a gas station knife or something? Or an 80s Rambo knife?
The enduring popularity of the BM 940 really surprises me, especially in this era of everything going premium, because aluminum just feels like such a cost cutting material. Steel is heavy and costs more to mill but looks and wears better. FRN has high upfront mold costs, but wears better. G10, micarta, titanium, brass, copper, etc all cost more but wear better and come with other benefits to a knife user. But aluminum is just… another option… with no real benefits in use… I guess for when all the money was spent somewhere other than where the knife meets the user. I don’t get why anyone bothers with it, but someone must find it appealing.
Exception: Swiss Army Knives. The cellidor is iconic, but the alox is a big upgrade in sturdiness and grip. Have to get the clear ano silver for them to wear well, but then they hold up much better than the shiny plastic.
Your comparison of how different knives of the same weight carry their weight differently reminded me of the only time I’ve heard a knife company mention paying attention to that feeling. Many years ago Benchmade said somewhere that they tend to design their knives with the weight a little forward so that the blades feel “alive” in use, rather than having dead weight sitting in the hand and making the blade feel weightless.
Hey Iain! Always love when you comment -- they're always so well thought-out!
You're absolutely right. It makes no sense to hold on to things of such value if they're not exactly what I want, especially when so many other people might enjoy them fully. I just listed the Ti one (for what I paid for it) and it sold in 15-20 minutes. Clearly other folks want it more than me! It's a fantastic knife and I'm sure it'll make someone super happy. And someday if they make a milled out version, that'll make me super happy. I think you're right that both oughta go, but I might hold onto the Al one just to be able to flip it a few more times. It's immensely satisfying action, even when it leaves you knowing it can be so much better.
Hahah, I'm glad you understand my feelings on aluminum. I agree with what you said completely: it just *feels* cheap, in a lot of different ways. There's different grades of aluminum, and some are actually incredibly strong and durable, like 7075 for example (parts-badger.com/6061-vs-7075-aluminum/). There's also different Al anodization finishes (e.g., Type III Hardcoat -- www.chemprocessing.com/page.asp?pageid=65). But a long history (and still abundance) of cheap aluminum knives just leaves them feeling... bad. And there's just no escaping the hollow, high-pitched qualities that come with their lack of density. Yes, that literal hollowness makes it lightweight, and in a great number of use cases light weight is very important. But there's a lot of ways and great materials with which weight reduction can be achieved without the negative side effects. Especially in the reasonably high-end market that Pro-Tech competes in, it just feels like they could "do better". I know, "for aluminum," _Pro-Tech's_ aluminum is supposed to be great. But why even bother?
The weight thing is interesting, and not something you hear people talk a lot about in folding knives. You *do* hear people talk a lot about it in kitchen knives, and so I would assume also fixed blades (though that's not really my thing). I used to buy/sell kitchen knives as a side hustle, and had a lot of friends in the back-of-house side of the restaurant industry. The weight balance and how a knife moves with your hand is one of the first things chefs talk about when they're excited about a new knife they just got.
PS -- if you're a flashlight guy, wanna give me some flash light recommendations? Doesn't need to be anything fancy, or insanely bright. And while I might take it camping, it's _not_ something I'd carry with me on a daily basis (just not a use case I run into often enough.) I'd like continuous-variable brightness controls, potentially with a twist dial, but press-and-hold or whatever is fine. Rechargeable would be ideal (and USB-C), or at a minimum a pretty standard battery type. Don't go researching or anything, but if you already know of stuff that might fit, lemme know!
@@KnifeNerdery Hey, that’s great news about the quick sale! You were able to try it out for yourself and gain a lot of insight into what you want from them, without even paying a depreciation penalty.
Speaking of aluminum often feeling like the “wrong” material in knife applications…
There’s just one Pro-Tech that interests me. Apparently they name their folders after coastal California towns, and the Cambria is named after my hometown. I kind of like the shape of it, so there’s a temptation to have my town’s knife, but… ha, aluminum. I don’t think I could get over it at that price. If it were G10 I’d be giving it serious consideration just because of the name.
The kitchen knife comparison is interesting. I’ve had too many folders that made me think, did anyone try holding this in hand before giving it the green light? Cutting with it? Opening, closing? But a kitchen knife, or any real work knife, it either works properly or it doesn’t. I think there’s a lot that manufacturers can get away with in the EDC folder market that would get laughed out of a serious kitchen or work use.
Fixed blades aren’t really my thing either (I’m in CA and can’t carry them), but the impression I get is that weight is spoken of as either light and convenient or heavy enough to chop. I feel like balance doesn’t come up much. When it does, in fixed or folding knives, it’s usually just to say that it’s “well balanced,” whatever that means, or to show the point where it balances. After all these years, I’m still not sure if that data point means anything, but I think maybe BM was on to something: knives seem to feel better to use when balance is at index finger or just in front of it. It may be my imagination, but I think I can feel the position of the blade a little better. I imagine cooks would appreciate anything that makes them feel more precise, given how much they cut right next to their fingers.
On topic of how a knife moves with the hand, this is a big part of why I think the Spyderco Military is the most “right” feeling knife I’ve used. It’s not just big and comfortable, it’s an extension of the hand, because the thumb on the ramp points straight through to the tip, and the blade feels precise despite the size. At least for my hand.
@@KnifeNerdery I’m afraid I probably can’t be much help with flashlights, but I’ll get into my thoughts a little, because someone who enjoys nerding out on knife details might find something interesting to think about in them. This will be a novel, as is always the case with me and flashlights, which I guess is part of the reason I haven't felt like I've had time to stay actively involved with them for some years.
My era of greatest involvement was around 2004 to 2008, when single level 5mm LED arrays were just giving way to Luxeon power LEDs, which were still somewhat exotic enthusiast level emitters. Incandescents were still the ticket for high output, or HID if we were fancy. SureFire was king. I was involved enough in the CPF development discussion of the modern HDS lights that a tiny UI element I suggested ended up in the first Clicky firmware, some credited me with getting Henry to add the timed burst level to the design, and I became the serial number registrar for Clickies and Rotaries. I ran a small flashlight blog for a while, and I dabbled in incandescent “hotwire” mods when that was a thing… and survived. That’s why I say I’m more of a flashlight guy: they’ve been a part of my life, I’ve collected a few vintage models, and I’ve had some involvement with significant lights. Whereas with knives, I’ve carried them since I was 7, but I’m strictly a user and mediocre sharpener.
I think that history is significant because I came to the flashlight hobby when we were still chasing adequacy, with in-depth analysis looking for barely visible improvements. Output was insufficient, light quality poor, runtime poor, but the people involved were so passionate and dedicated. Emphasis was often on a bright blaster and a dim light that ran forever. Then in 2006 the Cree revolution hit, suddenly we were flooded with LED lights that were fast approaching adequacy on all fronts. In the decade since then, things have continued to develop at unbelievable speed… maybe to the point that we no longer know what to do with the possibilities, or how to use the resulting lights well. I think the whole vibe is different now because LED lights have flown so far past adequacy that it no longer makes sense to obsess over them to the level we once did, so instead it’s more about fast-fashion and the fancy show-off piece. Perhaps the aspects I once found interesting have been largely consigned to the past.
So with that preamble, I don’t think I can help for a couple reasons:
1) I’m old fashioned; none of the lights I carry appear in the EDC photos that are now such a part of the modern knife community. I carried HDS button interface lights from 2006 to 2017, then a technically impressive but not entirely satisfying AA powered ZebraLight for a few years (good brand though, but nothing like you want). As of this year, my EDC is a high-CRI McGizmo Haiku, which in knife terms is a $500 mid-tech semi-custom. It’s a beautifully made piece of titanium and sapphire with great ergonomics, a top quality-over-quantity LED, and one of the most useful matches of emitter and reflector I’ve ever seen. But, it’s also a ~12 year old design with electronics that are maybe a little rough by modern standards, and while ~200 lumens is an incredibly bright pocket light in absolute terms (especially given exceptional quality of light), it’s relatively low power these days and not making any attempt to compete with the 3000lm cannons of today. It’s a wonderful light for my needs and preferences, but it’s definitely niche, and most these days will likely see it as an incredibly expensive antique that isn’t nearly as bright as most cheap lights now. But when I went looking for a new light, I found this decade old legend was the only thing that interested me.
2) Because of my era of flashlight experience, priorities, and my need for quality of light, I literally have zero experience with the kind of light you’re looking for. USB rechargeable lights didn’t come along until after I’d sort of lost interest in where lights were going, so I’ve never used one. Without diving into research, I can’t even name a brand that makes such a light. Fenix probably does, because they’ve become such a major player, and they’re fine, but I’ve never been impressed with them. Sunwayman was an early rotary controlled maker, but I don’t even know if they still exist. I’m sure there are lots of popular new brands I’ve never even heard of.
And I’ve never used that interface (not counting Peaks with non-electronic Quantum Tunneling Composite adjustment). A lot of people regard continuously variable as the ultimate interface, but I’ve avoided them for a few reasons, both psychological and technical.
First and foremost, I like to know exactly how much light I’m outputting and how much battery I’m burning, regardless of my level of dark acclimation, and variable lights tend to get turned up more than they’re turned down, because we naturally adjust to where our eyes are now instead of trying to get them to adjust to a lower level and work more effectively. So my preference is for a few rigidly defined and widely spaced outputs I can select to match the situation.
The second reason is that a change in output is barely noticeable if it’s less than a doubling. You’ll miss a 1.5x increase if you’re not watching closely enough or blink. For a really significant difference in how much you can see you’re better with a 4x change. While rotary controls probably have an ergonomic enjoyment to them, and they’re intuitive, I think people tend to overestimate how much benefit they’ll get from being able to fine tune output on the fly. It becomes a little like if we had to fine tune the angle a knife opens at each time: it might seem neat to be able to, but when the novelty wore off we’d probably find we just want the blade either at the one open angle we prefer, or closed. But plenty of people love them, so, while I don't entirely get the overwhelming popularity, reasonable minds can disagree.
And infinitely variable ramping lights I find just cumbersome and clumsy.
Third (minor) reason is electronic rotary controls have a power draw overhead, because their controller is always “listening” for rotary inputs, rather than just reacting to a button push. This is meaningless at typical outputs, but when you get down to the kinds of very low outputs that run for weeks, the rotary overhead can become a higher drain than what the LED is drawing, reducing those ultralow runtimes to days instead of weeks. Whether that’s a genuine practical concern or not is highly questionable, but kind of in the same way that you’re bothered by an ornate inlay on a knife with a rough finish, I’m bothered by the thought that my electronics are throwing away low level efficiency in favor of a control method that leads to less efficient usage. It strikes me as inelegant design and sort of offends me on principle if nothing else.
Or maybe I'm just salty because the 2nd gen HDS Clicky switched to the same hardware as the newly introduced Rotary, so it has the poor minimum output runtimes of a rotary control without the control.
That said, while I’m not necessarily recommending HDS (I get the feeling you’d find them bulky and heavy at 1” diameter and 3.6oz), and even though they’ve moved focus to rotary controls and have played a part in popularizing that method, their FAQ has the best explanation I’ve seen of how to use flashlights effectively, using defined levels, with inverse square law and the capabilities of our eyes in mind, and I think it's good food for nerdy thought. It’s under Operational Considerations/How can I see further:
www.hdssystems.com/Content/LightFaq/
So I guess that’s my input. I can’t suggest any brands or models, unless the HDS Rotary strikes your fancy (actually maybe the Rotary would be nearly ideal if you’re not going to be carrying it, and don’t mind small defined steps instead of a smooth ramp), and you should of course look for whatever appeals to your specific preferences and uses, but those are some of my flashlight considerations that have steered me in a different direction from the rotary and ramping interfaces.
I’ll say this though: for a perfectionist with an exceptional eye for detail, flashlights are a dangerous path, same as knives. You might start to have strong opinions about button sound and feel, beam width and distribution, color temperature, CRI, PWM, methods of regulation, battery type, mode memory, etc. Tread this path with caution…
The Cambria is a really interesting knife! It is, as far as I've always heard it described, the first-ever manual flipper knife from Pro-Tech, and it also kicked off their now three-part series of button-lock flippers! The stepped-relief contouring of the handle is a really cool look that reminds me of topographical maps or nautical charts. No idea how that feels in hand, but as long as the edges aren't sharp (and they're definitely not), it probably feels fine.
The part of Pro-Tech's manual button-lock flipper evolution that I find most interesting is their refinement of the action itself. I've never handled the Cambria or the Mordax, but Jake over at Bearded Gear (if you don't sub his channel, go check it out -- he puts out some of the best content I've found) has a side-by-side-by-side of all three and talks specifically about how the action itself has changed, mostly in terms of its crispness and how tactile it is. That's part of what makes the Malibu *so* impressive -- it has just a delightful and unique tactile feel to operate.
I think that's a great observation about kitchen knives -- or really anything that is being sold *solely* as a tool to industry professionals: it simply _has_ to perform, or it will not survive in the market. I'm wholeheartedly confident that goes away for kitchen knives once you enter the high-high-end custom side, where they become just as much art as tool, but anything used in an actual kitchen? If there's something better that'll get the job done faster or more easily, they'll just switch.
As far as balance, that phrase you said -- "an extension of your hand" -- is one I've heard many times in those aforementioned conversations, and it's an ideal I think all knives should strive for at some level. All knives that are actually meant to be used, at least. The balance point is a big part of it, but the distribution that achieves that balance point is even more crucial -- imagine a knife that was weighted almost entirely toward the center; it'd have a balance point right where you want it, but would feel so awkward and unwieldy. But you're right, a balance point right around the index finger is great. Too far past that and the blade feels like it's swinging around without you, and you're left trying to curb its momentum. Too far behind that and you lose sense of the blade altogether, as the weight you're feeling isn't corresponding to where and how the tip is moving.
I've not held a Military, but I can definitely understand what you mean. Big or small, neither inherently mean good or bad when it comes to ergonomics or balance -- a well designed knife is a well designed knife either way.
@@KnifeNerdery I like that description of balance distribution. Going back to my teenage sports car obsessive days, a knife with high polar moment of inertia is probably going to feel more alive and controllable than one that’s quick and nimble due to too much weight in the middle. A knife that’s extremely tail heavy will just feel like it’s working against you. What makes a sports car responsive but jittery will make a knife awkward and disconnected feeling. What makes a car balanced and stable will make a knife balanced and controllable.
Going back to that Spyderco Equilibrium I was bagging on a while back, what an ironic name considering that it’s a thin 1” blade at the end of a finger choil and sold steel handle that extends 2” into the hand. It might feel functional and precise by sheer virtue of smallness, but it can never actually feel balanced and alive.
I get your take. I have never liked any all metal knives, until I got the Malibu. Love it, and. a little bit amazed that, for being the defacto "knife of the year" for 2020, I don't see videos of anyone carrying it as their EDC. I do, for now.
Ah dang, I just realized this is the older version of this video. 😣 I re-edited it with drop-in photos showing off the change in handle and back-spacer colors, and other fun stuff like that. Oh well, probably not worth re-uploading. Just imagine I'd done a buncha fancier editing in post 😜 Also hence the "Stay tuned for a Rockwall unboxing" comment about a video that already hit the channel. I've introduced a continuity error into the Knife Nerdery space-time continuum! 😲
And maybe something alot of ppl don't know about protech.....is at ANY point in the knives life.... you can send it back to protech and they will refinish your knife for you!!!!and maybe it's just me.... but once I found that out.... it totally changed the way I feel about actually carrying and using them....I have a 1of 1 sng with gcarta scale that I originally got just to collect.... but knowing that now...I carry all my protechs.... thanks man great video
..... 🙋♂️ Yup, I'm one of the ones who didn't know that! 😅 That's awesome!! Thanks for sharing!
A knife reviewer with a bandaid on his finger. I feel like I can trust this guy.
🤣🤣 I'm pretty careful with sharp objects, and I still end up cutting myself all the time. Just one of the perks of the hobby.
Great review and I agree 100% with your observations.
I agree Kev! I never handled it but I would think the price would be somewhere in the $100-$150 more range due to the titanium, milling and mother of pearl. That being said I believe they started to high and are benefiting from the popularity of the Malibu, The same versions with Damascus are more expensive than the base price of many custom knives
not to make it sound like i'm okay with their prices but historically every non-standard pro-tech with a ti handle was WAY over the top in terms of $$$
It's so interesting. I have a full PVD Malibu I recently received, and you've said all the things that I have been thinking, but may not have been able to put into words.
The aluminum and the black PVD coating give the exact feeling you've described. I'm afraid to take it outside in fear that the pocket clip will bump up against something and that shiny silver will come through. The "Tink" noise that the aluminum makes gives me the (wrong) impression that the knife is delicate and should be handled accordingly. It doesn't help that mine is a Blade Show 2021 limited run of 200, so I want to touch it EVEN LESS.
I actually just recently decided I was no longer going to buy knives with handles with PVD or DLC coating, because no matter how much I WANT to, I can never bring myself to use them in fear of them being marred irreparably.
Exactly! There's all of these little factors that add up to a false sense of frailty and barrier to use. And while some of them are demonstrable and true (they _do_ scratch easier, no questions asked), so much of it is just psychological -- it _feels_ less sturdy and more vulnerable than it actually is. And especially when you add in a unique or limited edition factor, it can just feel so wrong to mar up its pristine specialness knowing that you are defiling one of the only ones in existence. Well, to a whole lot of folks, anyhow. I'm sure there are also plenty of people who just don't feel that sentimental apprehension.
But also, so what! As I know you agree, it's perfectly fine for us to keep a pristine copy around just to admire, play with, or preserve for whatever archival pleasure that brings. The vast majority of my knives are things I want to cut with, so I tend to prefer a user finish that eliminates that "but I might scratch it" trepidation. But if something's absolutely gorgeous and I want to keep it that way, so be it!
"saying the things I haven't been able to put into words" could be the name of this channel.
Smaller tooling is the main ingredient in not showing tooling marks. I'm 30 year vested manual machinist...knives are a wonderful way to produce the imagination and ability of the trade...I love my job.....and great surface can be achieved via conventional milling ideology and methods of tooling and speeds and feeds...Cheers..
Ah! Great feedback -- I really appreciate your insight!
Love that there is a bandaided finger in a knife video
Ah man I have cut myself so, so many times thanks to this channel. 😅 Always small, and almost never *on* video, but so many little cuts!
You said it, Spoiled!
😂😂😂
I don't agree i love this knife an i like aluminum because its lite an strong . Its probably one of the hardest knifes to get your hands on, there's a reason for that.
Yeah, I can definitely understand why people love it. And you're right! Aluminum has great structural properties. I wish it *felt* different in hand, but it is a smart choice from a lot of perspectives for sure.
I liked this video and the analysis.
agreed, for 500 bucks they could've milled out the scales, i mean if kizer can do it on $150 ti-framelocks..come on pro-tech..
i have a knife from the swiss company klotzli, it has a damasteel blade, milled scales damn near perfect drop-shut button-lock action (on washers!) and absolutely flawless fit'n'finish, and it was hand made but "only" 80$ more.
i'd never trade that one for a ti-malibu (i have the regular magnacut version anyway).
I.
Your content.
How do you think kizer is doing compared with American or other countries known to make quality knives ?
I answered your similar question comparing Kizer to WE/Civivi, but this is definitely an interesting alternative. If you're comparing to US-based companies that operate in the budget space and produce their knives overseas (e.g., Gerber, CRKT, etc), Kizer knives are usually significantly nicer for a given price point. If you start comparing yo US-made knives (Benchmade, ZT, TRM, etc), you start finding more direct competition and sometimes nicer pieces coming out of the US, but not at the same price points. If you step up to high-end US manufacturing (CRK, Hinderer, etc), you start finding significantly nicer-made knives, but again, they'll now be *much* more expensive. But, just as importantly, they'll be markedly *different* -- Hinderer makes bulky, tanky knives for example; you might very well prefer the lighter weight, drop-shuttier, EDC-focused knives Kizer puts out even if they're not as "high quality".
A lot of people don’t keep the titanium version. It’s not exactly not the same as the aluminum one because of the thickness and larger size.
Yeah I can definitely see that. I welcomed most of the changes, but it still ultimately wasn't "perfect" for me yet. But I am confident they'll keep making these, and someday I expect they'll make a version that's right up my alley.
@@KnifeNerdery I fully understand how it goes. I am huge into modding knives and made my favorite knife through mods. It started off as a dlt trading hinderer battle black xm-18 no choil slicer. I hade the slicer blade reground and now has a nice full flat satin finished blade, green hardware on the lock side, black canvas frag pattern micarta scale with a lanyard hole delete, and after market Gillian knives ceramic bearings that stay smooth as heck without cleaning weekly (I’m a cabinet maker have a lot of sawdust). This is my most carried knife and my work knife. I really badly want to do the same thing but with a skinny no choil slicer.
That sounds awesome!! Yeah, that is definitely one of the coolest developments in the community in the last decade: the rise of a very large modding community. There's now so many third party parts you can use, so many talent tinkerers willing to do outlandish and amazing things to knives, and so many helpful folks willing to teach you how to do stuff yourself. There's something just so satisfying about making a knife you loved *exactly* the way you always wished it could be.
Great perspective.
Thanks! I really didn't expect how this one turned out, so it seemed like a good idea to share my thinking in case someone else might feel the same way.
I've been on the fence about getting the Ti. I think I'd like to hold out and see if they do anything with the internal milling like you pointed out.
It seems like a really obvious, low-hanging-fruit improvement they could make. I don't think I would have even hesitated about the knife if they'd shaved off an ounce with some deep weight relief pockets inside. So I assume they _have_ to do it at some point (given its wild success, the Malibu seems like it'll stick around in their lineup), I'm just worried it'll also come with a $600 price tag! 😝
My thoughts on the aluminum are that any scratches are basically battle scars. Not really wanted, but hey, shit happens. Don't plan on reselling so not really worried personally. I'll probably still cry when it happens but the overall knife feel and design outweigh any scratching that will happen.
Hahah, yes, that is the healthier attitude I keep aspiring to. And for the most part, I'm getting there. I was actually relieved when someone hit-and-run bashed in the bumper and headlight of my car just two weeks into owning it -- they "broke the seal", so to say, and I was no longer worried about the countless dings and scratches that have been put on it since.
You have a real tuff decision to make. Send me both and I'll work on it.
@@marccohen5579 😂😂
I have the blue aluminum version and its quiet on the drop i want mine to sound like your black version.. will it get more sound the more I use it?
Oh interesting! I just got it out and listened carefully to the different noises it makes as it closes. The actual swing downward is virtually silent if I'm holding the button down to sufficiently remove pressure on the blade. And if I hold it parallel to the floor and let the blade just hang down and swing back and forth, that too is basically silent. There's basically three noises going on that make up the "ker-think!" sound:
1) The initial click as I suppress the button, thanks to the residual (and at this point I'm assuming permanent, 'cause I've had this for many months) button stick. Whether yours makes this part would be based on how much button-stick your knife still has.
2) The pretty loud "tink" sound of the knife hitting the stop pin again in the closed position, and that reverberation traveling through the aluminum handles. I assume yours would make this too -- if you fully suppress and hold the button the entire time, and just let the blade bounce off the closed position, I assume it goes "tink tink tink" every time it hits, right?
3) A "thunk"-click noise (literally sounds like the word "thick") as the button clicks back into the closed detent position. And this noise is mostly caused by the timing with which I release the button on the downward swing -- I'm releasing the button right before it reaches the closed position (so that the button detent will catch the blade and prevent it from bouncing), and thus it's fully free to click back into place at full spring force.
But if yours is doing all those things and just doing them markedly more quietly, how free-falling is your blade? Mine is falling with essentially zero resistance, so it reaches a pretty high velocity by the time it's fully closed. All of the noises I described get even louder if I intentionally swing the blade closed, increasing that speed. If you find yours is falling more slowly, it could be that the bearings need to be cleaned out and re-lubed. Or, if it's very new, they might just need to wear in a little. The last thing I noticed is that if you push the button down _really_ far, you'll actually start putting friction on the _top_ side of the blade, which will slow the blade down a lot -- full free-fall requires the button to be pushed most, but not all, of the way down. (If you just look at the back as you're pushing in the button, you can see how there's a point where it's centered around the blade and no longer touching it.)
@@KnifeNerdery I guess what I dont hear is the high pitched noise and no reverb.. You know like when somebody hits a tuning fork that high pitched sound. I literally have heard everyone's on RUclips have that sound but mine maybe needs pivot loosened or broken in
Both of those could definitely impact it. The pivot, fortunately, is easy to test. Just loosen it a hair -- and check for centering! The last thing you want is to be swinging that free-fall blade around and have it smack into the scales at all!
But if it's specifically the higher-pitched resonance you're missing, it might also have to do with how you're holding the knife -- both in terms of how firmly you're holding it and, more importantly, how much of your hand is making contact. Your tuning fork comparison is spot on -- that sound is the impact force resonating in the handle scales, so your hand will absorb that reverberation and dampen the sound. I just played around with different ways I could hold the knife while it was closing, and the more my hand is touching the scale, the less sound it makes. If I hold it in a pretty contrived way with both hands so that the entire handle scale is being touched by some part of my hands, that reverb sound is almost completely gone, and I'm left with a much more deadened "thunk".
My _typical_ way of holding it while closing -- based on the size of my hand and just what feels comfortable -- is with my thumb on the button (obviously), my index and middle finger just making contact at the tips, my ring and pinky on the clip (so not touching the scale itself at all), and the base of the knife pressed gently against my palm. Other than my thumb, the entire show-side of the knife isn't making contact at all, so none of that reverb is being dampened.
If you decide to sell and Ian doesn't take it I would be happy to buy it. I've been looking for one for a long time and haven't been able to find one
Ah, sorry, it's already gone! I'll be sure to update the description to let folks know it's no longer around. But best of luck in your hunt! I assume you'll love it -- it really is an amazing knife in so many ways!
Awesome video, id be willing to buy that TI one if you still selling?!
Thanks for the kind words! Unfortunately, this knife has already been sold. Best of luck hunting one down!
@@KnifeNerdery oh damn bummer thank you anyways!
The aluminum version is way better balanced, and has better action because of this. Ti version needed too have the handles milled out.
As soon as I held the Ti version I knew I'd take 2 aluminum ones over the Ti one.
Oh wow, I completely forgot to mention the balance problem when I filmed this! Thank you for bringing that up! But yes -- you're 100% correct. The balance on the Al version is pretty close to ideal, and the Ti version was significantly tail-heavy. This is definitely a knife that needs internal weight relief!!
@@KnifeNerdery ya I was lucky that my local knife shop got a couple in and I was able too handle the Ti version before pulling the trigger. That said I absolutely love my two aluminum versions. It will be interesting if anyone decides too do internal milling themselves on the Ti version.
It sucks when you buy a beautiful knife but then you try to operate it and hold then your feeling meh. I felt the same way about the Shaman. I thought man that’s a awesome looking knife that I’ll never be able to afford. I got a better job and could actually get one and did and in a exclusive. Then I got it and was thinking damn they didn’t think this all the way through when they designed it. It left me with the feeling of sadness and buyers remorse instead of being happy about my purchase. So now I’m like damn do I keep it and use it or do I just sell it and wait for a gen 2 when they improve it if that ever happens?
Uggggh, I know, that feeling is awful. And when it's something you've been anticipating for a long time as you hunt it down or save up for it, that just magnifies that feeling even more! Sorry to hear the Shaman isn't doing it for ya. That's one of the Spydercos I've never handled, so what all would you want changed?
@@KnifeNerdery my biggest issue is the blade choil bump hits your finger when your closing it and prevents the knife blade from closing all the way till you move your finger out of the way. You can eliminate the bump but mine is a black dlc coated blade so that’s a no go. Had it been raw metal you could modify it and not really notice. Thing is that knife is $260 and shouldn’t be like that for that kind of price.
@@whatfreedom7 oh man I KNNOOOW! That is such an obvious design flaw. How the hell did that make it past the prototype stage? My Lil' Native does the exact same thing (but apparently not all do), and it's just such an obvious, fixable design mistake.
Hey Kim k, it’s a tool not your new pair of high heels 😂😭
😂😂😂 Isn't it, though? When you're paying double the price for the shiny pretty blue one, it's basically pocket jewelry at that point. 😝
Nooo not the Ti Malibu... I’ll take it
😝 Well despite filming this almost a full month ago (got busy and it took a while to edit this), I still haven't picked what I'm doing with these knives. Yes, I still have both. Yes, I'm now well past my 30-day return window. Yes, I still intend to get rid of one or (gasp) potentially both. Yes, I have bought even more new (and pricy) things that make me wish I had cleared up some funds already. Hmmm... 🤔
Will you be getting the new textured Malibu?
Several friends have one and say they significantly prefer it, so maybe someday? It's not high on my list because it's still aluminum handles, which is just not my thing haja
You should have kept it... Now it's $900!
😲 No way, are they really?! I hope that was one of the Damascus ones or something, 'cause there's no way someone should pay that much did this version. (Not that I think the fancier Damascus ones are worth that either, but that's a different story. 😜)
@@KnifeNerdery
Yes it's the Damascus version, but with skyrocketing material costs I suspect they'll all keep going up.
Well…did you keep it?
🤣 I did not -- it's been gone for a while. I updated the description, but even I don't read descriptions, so I can't expect people to see that. I know the person who bought it off me also resold it a few weeks later, but I lost track of it after that. Hopefully it ended up with someone who adores it, 'cause I'm wholeheartedly confident some folks would.
@@KnifeNerdery
What Malibu do you recommend? The knife is intriguing but I’m not convinced worth the money. 154 cm is a good steel but not on $200 knives.
@@BrutalJuice138 As far as I'm aware, Malibus have always been in 20CV, even the aluminum ones. As far as a recommendation, I'd say the aluminum one is undoubtedly the best value, but there's plenty of reasons you might go for the Ti, especially if you can get one for a good price. (But they're still pretty rare, so 🤷🏼♂️)
I heard they recently did a very small number of Malibus in bronze handles for a show, but shockingly they only weigh 2.99oz because they (finally!!) introduced internal milling to lighten the weight. I'm really, really hoping that means future Ti handle ones will have that same milling pattern -- when they finally make that, that's the one for me.
@@KnifeNerdery
I’ll give it some time and see. I’d like a full Titanium one.
I think the word you are looking for to describe the sound of the aluminum version is “tinny”
Did I not use the word tinny ever? Not even once? Wow, because yes, that's exactly the word I should have been using.
I believe the 1 ounce per inch rule is a silly idea to subscribe to. I think that it limits manufacturers and doesn’t allow for creativity in the production of new knives. If everyone subscribe to this idea all knives would be the same. I believe that subscribing to this rule would eliminate critical thinking during the design process. perhaps having some knives that are designed for the handicapped, and for people who require a reasonable accommodations for their handicapped hands could get a prescription for the 1 ounce per inch knives that are available. perhaps there are some jobs that require smaller knives. However, I believe that people who need larger knives that fit their hands correctly would reduce the risk of accidents substantially. I suppose there is a Knife bill for every individual but I don’t believe that all knives should be judged on the 1 ounce per inch rule, because it just doesn’t fit everyone’s needs. I also believe that RUclips creators just use this rule to fill space so they have something to talk about. Why be like every other RUclips product reviewer? Do something new and throw that worthless information out.😊
Haha, well first things first I want to say that I absolutely agree with you that not every knife can or should fall within the roughly-an-ounce-an-inch window, nor should makers exclusively limit themselves to that as a design constraint. And I definitely don't think that a knife *needs* to fall within that window to be "good" or enjoyable to use.
But the big thing I'd want to point out is that the "ounce-an-inch rule" was never a prescribed rule, but an observed one. Knives came first, observations came second. What I mean is, it's not an arbitrary standard someone set, but an observation of weight-to-size ratios and limits that tend to make *most* people think a knife feels light, comfortable, or heavy. If you make a knife that is roughly an ounce an inch, some will find it too heavy, some will find it too light, but the large majority of people will find it meets their expectations when they hold it and find it a comfortable weight to use.
The problem you're describing, though, is when companies *only* produce for the "average" person. Even a "large majority" (for example, two-thirds) leaves a huge number of people's needs unmet.
And as you pointed out, the same goes for size, independent of weight. The "average" person wants a knife in the 3-3.5" range, but there are plenty of people with small hands that want something smaller, and plenty with big hands that would be best suited with something potentially much bigger.
Omg you make problems out og nothing. I havd spend over 50K on knifes and Malibu is on my top 5 list. My is en brass finish. If the knife is heavy, you should do some more listing bro....
Ah, right, listing. I'm embarrassed I didn't think of that myself. Thanks for the recommendation! And sorry to hear about your bank account -- better luck next time!
Aluminium not 'aluminum"
True, true, very good point.
I'm so glad I don't think this hard. You must give yourself a headache.
Hahaha yes, accurate, quite regularly.
I just got the Operator version. Cost me almost $600 Australian Dollars. It's a nice knife but i don't know if it's worth the price. Flipping action feels great. But I'm not a fan of the lock stick. Like it's a average knife in my opinion. Not worth the hype.
I had to look up what that was -- an all blacked out version, eh? Yeah, I think ultimately the Mailbu became pretty obviously over hyped. It's a solid knife for sure, and it was the first well-done button lock flipper detent to make waves, but it's just not THAT special of a knife when all is said and done. Good? Yes. But people hyped it to a level way beyond just good.
The lock stick goes away on its own once you break it in. I own three, all purchased brand new & came with mild lock stick but all run perfectly smooth now that I’ve broken them in.
Sell both of them. And buy the Kizer SwayBack.
Honestly I'd *love* one of the brown micarta/154CM versions WMK dropped -- hope they'll do a restock or I can find one on secondary. Any idea if that clip screw pattern is compatible with something deep carry?
@@KnifeNerdery I don't like the clip exactly because it's not deep carry. And would prefer the SW's handle would be a little thinner...
would you pass me the pipe before you put it down?
🤣
Or sell them both 🤓
Haha, the Malibu is just too fun to play with to not have _any_ version. But maybe I should while the secondary is still paying at or slightly above retail. Hmmm 🤔
No pocket knife feels like $500.. especially when a pocket knife at $150 200 can do and feel like any other knife. If you're not hurting for money, keep it. U can always sell a malibu down the road. I have the all black malibu 3v version $270 and I'm the same way. Already just fidgeting with the knife, it looks like a used knife. It drives me crazy how the coating on the aluminum wears down. And at almost $300, for me, I feel like it should be displayed in the man cave in pristine condition, not to be touched 😆 All that said, the fact that I love it makes up for all the flaws. 👍
I will not buy aluminum handled knives either.
Glad I'm not the only one! Just can't get over that feeling. But I know there are folks out there who *LOVE* aluminum handles! Different strokes, as they say.
vote with your wallet. they can charge what they want
Dude its not jewelry
When you're paying $300 more for the shiny blue striped version, isn't it though?
That thing looks as boring as a Chris Reeves Sabenza. A little different, but just as boring.
Hahah, I'm sure the designers at Protech consider that a huge compliment. I know I would. 😝
But as always, that's one of the best parts of this hobby -- different folks can have such wildly different personal aesthetics. The more the merrier!