The ‘angry vibe’ that Paul has in his speech really captures how real life charismatic speakers use aggression to get people fired up. Notice how many times he raises his voice or speaks in a very assertive and forceful manner throughout the whole scene. There is none of that humility he initially showed at the start when he asked for a chance to fight alongside the Fremen. The way he singles out the lone guy and talks about his grandmother looks so threatening in the way he talks, that he doesn't even look like he's trying to convince the guy and more like he's using pure intimidation to instill fear and awe. This perfectly exemplifies Dune's cautionary message about messiahs, they can get you to abandon all logic and reason and submit to raw instinctual emotion and unquestioning belief.
While watching the scene, I was kinda left wondering if Paul was subtly using his “Voice” to enrapture his audience. His “shouting” sounded deeper and more powerful, almost similar to when he shouts “Silence” in the throne room scene.
Kinda, Paul was also pointing out randoms whom he doesn't even know in the crowd and telling them the most intimate things about themselves and their loved ones that they believe who Paul says he is. My point being, there's a difference between tapping into a strangers emotions perfectly and perfectly knowing who a stranger is on first sight and reading their being down to an essence they can't deny. In the book it's a little more visceral, I believe you get to be the fremens grandmother the moment he explains it because Paul literally lives those moments he speaks of the moment he speaks to the fremen about it.
it's also wild that in his perfect fusion of Fremen and Atraides, he's also embodying his Harkonnen side, the antithesis of what the other two stand identities for. he couldn't adopt both good personas without also adopting the evil one
This was the scene that sold me on Timothee's casting. I'd been personally unimpressed with him as Paul up until here, but man he nailed this scene. Great acting and directing all around
@@Joe-sg9ll Truth be told I’m still not a fan of Zendaya’s casting. I don’t think her performance has been emotive enough, and she’s rarely ever the most compelling actor in a scene for me. I’d have gone with someone else
@@Joe-sg9ll I believe so. It wasn’t an issue of attractiveness for me, more so the emotion she put into the performance. Chani was supportive of Paul, especially his marriage to the Princess in the book because she knew it was just an emotionless political move and that she and Paul would still be lovers
A small correction, the Lady Jessica cannot see into the future, she just has all the memories of all past Bene Gesserit in her line via the women, and she received the memories of all the Reverend mothers of the fremen from Sietch Tabr, and alia shares those memories with her in the womb. The ONLY one who can see the future is Paul, first small, vague and unclear memories, then complete, clear and detailed visions from any and all possible timelines. The reason the Lady Jessica is so assertive is what Paul needs to do is because she's following the prophecies laid by the Bene Gesserit about the Kwizath Haderach (I don't remember how this is spelled lmao) and the prophecies of the Lisan Al Gaib they installed in the Fremen culture via their Missionara Protectiva, aka, cultural manipulation over the course of millenia.
She doesn't have all the memories of all the Bene Gesserit. She has fragments. Only Reverend Mothers get a complete memory, and only of the line they are the inheritors of. So she had partial from her Bene Gesserit training, and but no complete history before drinking the water of life. And yeah, they can't see the future. They are Extremely good at predicting it through interpolation, and constructing "plans within plans" for every eventuality they think might occur, but they have no actual vision.
Exactly, Paul is pointing a new way, not a tool of the BG. As well Paul can see the future not only because of his paternal+maternal ancestral memory but because he's also a mentat, so he's able to synthesize this data about the past into predictions of the future
@@TravisJohnsonncc1701 yes, which is why she got the memories of the Fremen line. Not all the Bene Gesserit. OP said she had all the memories of the Bene Gesserit in her line AND the memories from the Reverend Mother from the sietch. This suggests she had memories before taking the water of life. There's some notion she had fragments from her own line, but nothing suggesting anything complete. It's never made 100% clear how much they get when they drink, but it doesn't seem they get all the memories of every Bene Gesserit. They seem to get an encapsulation from the line, and some sort of core seed memories that help align the entire order.
I _think_ Paul knows about the man's grandmother through his own access to past lives, including his mother's, now enriched with what she shared with the Fremen Reverend Mother. A bit of a jump, but he has no [Fremen] ancestors so he has to connect to them through his mother's own, new, connections.
The tragedy is actually even deeper. By accepting his role as leader of both House Atreides and the Fremen, and by promising to lead them to take over Arrakis, he's commiting himself to the only future he can see which follows that, total devastating war across the galaxy. So while being a personal triumph and tragedy, it's also leading to future triumph and tragedy
When I saw this scene in the theater, I was just as caught up in it as the Fremen were. As sacrilegious as it is to say, I was in a semi-prayerful moment while watching this. This is what amazing art can do. I'm so glad I was a part of this history-defining movie.
same. this scene was absolutely terrifying, because i thought i was above this sort of mob mentality. if i can be swayed by the crowds in a movie like this, imagine what could happen irl.
on the contrary I was scared of this too much real demonstration of fanaticism and blind following of sacred leaders. Seeing the eyes of Stilgar you know he will do whatever Muad'dib tells him, without the slightest doubt.
I really like the line “Do you smash a knife before battle?” too because it tells the reader up front exactly who Paul is now and how he feels about both Stilgar and the Fremen. Stilgar is a weapon to Paul. A tool. As are the Fremen.
That's not really accurate though. In the novel it's very clear that Paul cares very deeply about the fremen*, even against his own best interest in some ways. The line was simply to convey that Paul didn't want to waste any more lives, like what happened with Jamis.
Despite Denis's dislike towards dialogue, the speech was definitely my favourite scene. Here, Paul is using his power ON the Fremen, FOR an Atreides cause. Paul is literally promising a paradise by undermining the Fremen own's past. His main goal is still vengeance for his father. Just because Paul is who they believed to be the god-like figure they were promise, Fremen gave up all their agency to trust him completely. It made me feel for Chani who lose her lover and her culture all at once.
I don't believe it's quite accurate to say it's an Atreides cause. Gurney is won over by the act just like everyone else. Paul is far above single houses or sides. He's embodying history itself, a terrifying perspective.
at the "give moisture to the dead" line, it also serves another purpose: with the first demonstration building peoples' faith in paul's powers, and the 2nd demonstration with the chief being a destruction of peoples' existing disloyalties. it shows the chief as being untrustworthy, thus making paul a more appealing leader for calling him out on something only the chief thought he knew.
@@Joe-sg9ll in fremen culture, people don't cry, to preserve water, so giving water to the dead means to cry at one's death. It's not a common occurrence for one to do this (it's a very big deal when Paul does it in jamis's funeral in the book), and it's reserved for moments of great tragedy, so the fact that giving moisture to the dead brings joy to the chief's heart is a sign of evil. Hope that answers your question
14:00 Something that wasn't mentioned here is that Paul is framed as looking directly at Gurney when saying this line. Beyond the character development of the dialogue, there is also the practical component of reaffirming his place as member of the House that Gurney is loyal to.
reminds me a little of politicians getting caught on mic at a donor dinner promising things that their normal constituents don't care for. he's doing the opposite here. he's declaring his dual loyalties as being aligned. he is telling both groups where he stands even though that might conflict
Jessica saying "slow down" is also a mirror of the conversation with Kynes in pt 1. There Jessica says "careful" as Paul expresses his plan to marry the princess
Thanks. Makes me appreciate the scene much more. I originally had a hard time with the movie as a whole because of how frustrated i was at how Paul's character differed so deeply from the book portrayal.
The Muad'dib star constellation is named after the desert mouse, it's tail points to the North and is known as "The One Who Points the Way" and at 4:32 Paul says HE is pointing the way. I always found that to be an important line.
Pauls powers is actually the generic memories of his ancestors. Im guessing he had a convo with this guy in one of the futures he forsaw and learned this story. And singled him out. Its a trick. If you can see possible futures, you can find things about people they you didnt know you know. I doubt he could do that with a random person in the crowd. The whole point of his character is to show the tricks and manipulations charismatic leaders use to control people. He will be worse than Hitler. And they even say in the books. The movie gets this! Paul is the ultimate politician
word. is the sight thing magical like that or more practical/reasonable/attainable in just being able to predict very very well? (if Trump wins, TSLA stock will moon. if x happens and then y happens then z will happen.. etc etc.) like a chess player
@Joe-sg9ll remember in the 1st movie there all these scenes with Jamis that never happened because the 1st time he met him, Paul killed him. If Paul had control over his visions of the future he'd know Jamis inside and out by the time he 1st met him. Like he did with the guy who's grandma lost an eye.
S-Rank Content again my friend. Your 12 Y/O grandmother crossing the belt and being maimed by a rock is def something I could have just made up on the spot but it's SOOO WELL DONE that "Damn maybe HE JUST KNOWS" is a good explainer as well LMAO It's clearly meant to show he's got those backwards sight abilities but if it were me, a non-powered man i'd have just lied, and then said "DUNE" afterward and hoped the crowd bought it xD
he was talking to a single person though, a respected warlord with a gaggle of diehards. you could have a plant in the crowd, that's how most do it. or arranged it beforehand. or else somehow researched their personal secrets. is it ever exposed that he used sight or was fed that info? I think someone like Thiel could do this now. if he loaded up Palantir and wrote down some bullet points, then confronts anyone in the world with it..
Villeneuve just had a 1-on-1 episode on Variety's RUclips channel release in which he said he feels "he failed in making Dune, because it had too much dialogue..." and he "wishes he could have made it with even less". It's wild to me that he considers his Dune, a movie who's world is largely built off visual spectacle and who's characters thoughts and motivations are often defined by the subtlest of movements and expressions, as having too much dialogue. I wouldn't change a single thing about this scene, yet he probably wishes it had half the dialogue it does XD
I think the films are amazing but on a certain level I think I understand Dennis. To Dennis' credit, the book is dialogue heavy and subtley gives alot of exposition and lore through dialogue yet there's alot of visual and visceral things that were kind of brushed over, for example the coded hand language they have. In the books, people carry on a banal conversation while have sign language with codes of what's really happening at the same time. Also my other biggest complaint is Paul's visions, the floor moves and Paul seizes out and Paul has kind of an "aha" moment, where in the books Paul literally lives in so many moments at once until he runs into the path he seeks but in a sense he literally lives every vision that he has (albeit doing scenes like that coherently would be very hard to pull off, I still wished Dennis could do it. They would be so amazing).
I mean it was pretty obvious, but surprised you didn't bring up the fact of the reveal of the translation of Lisan al Gaib at this point in the movie as well. We hear it over and over again leading up to this scene, and in what you call the climax of the scene it's finally revealed to us (at least us who haven't read the books lol). Very effective I thought
I randomly watched the last 45 minutes of this movie last night, starting with when he walks through the crowd outside the sietch. This scene is absolutely insane in the best way possible, the culmination of incredible storytelling and acting.
Thank you for a great breakdown, pointing out to what makes great dialog and how it fits in great storytelling. I loved this scene and its obvious ingredients. A small but amazing detail I loved was the crouch Paul did as he started to talk to the Fremen with the grandmother, as if to say "let me come down to your level"...
You're a bit off with the Dune lore and religion Say, when you say it's a nod to Jesus and his imagery. The religion in Dune is far more inspired by Islam (well, they recognize Jesus as a prophet too, and frank herbert is still a westerner himself, but still). Paul becoming the Mahdi is call back to the Mahdi in Islam, with a new prophet (but not half man half god like Jesus, because Muslim don't believe in that, or the trinity.) Frank Herbert actually went through the trouble of seeing how the religion would mix and influence each other, to form his universe, so it should be acknowledged, imho. It's not just a simple call back to Christiannity/western tradition And it's important, because Dune suceeds in large part due to how unfamiliar it all is. If it was rooted in Christiannity, it wouldn't work on western audience. And you can't just reskin the Christian religion and be done with it, you've got to work in the deeper aspects
Paul is a strong man archetype in that scene. Power is Power, and he showed his power there; he needed to without. The Fermen wouldn't have fully united and where a body without a head.
Anger, fear, grief, shame and awe. These are the emotional tones Paul invokes before stating his political goal, his ascendancy. It's a very efficient scene.
Thanks for so eloquently put into words how I felt the first time I experienced this scene in theaters. I honestly felt like Stilgar and also wanted to yell out Lisan Al-gaib.
Off topic. Think this is the first time in my RUclips viewing history that ever had a 45 second ad.. 10 second ad followed by a 45 second one. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but longer ads are definitely on the way...!
Exactly. The inspiration is so unbelievably blatant. The desert planet, the chosen one (played completely straight in star wars), the Jedi mind tricks being a 1:1 ripoff of the voice, Jedi being functionally bene Gesserit and the focus on melee combat because of technological reasons. They even put a sandworm reference in the asteroid. George was not subtle.
@@wumbojetI mean these are incredibly surface level aspects. Chosen one stories were not invented by Dune and the worlds are incredibly different and have very different stories to tell.
@@benjaminklein8379They may be now, but back then? Mind you Sci Fi of Star Wars type (fantasy but in high technology space faring civilisations) only became popular after Star Wars (Star Trek is a bit different).
The "showing instead of telling" in movies is a really good rule. One thing I missed from the Dune movies is they keep telling me how dangerous the Desert is. There are spiders, spirits and alot of other stuff that can kill you but we never see any execept for the shai-hulud's ofc. We're also told every single water drop is important and they are killing each other over them, but apperently the sietches can have huge indoor pools of spare water. And there are also millions of Fremen more in the South, so there has to be lots of water to support that huge population, I know the suits help alot but still.
Odd thing to have a gripe with. We see how dangerous the desert is by how fast worms can appear. We know it's void of resources for living without support systems. The spoken dialogue about that just reinforces these things. The water in the Sietches are not spare water supplies. It's water collected from bodies of fremen, intended for use to transform the face of Arrakis. It is plainly stated in both the books and movies. It is not water for drinking, it is sacred. They've been collecting it for thousands of years. Stilgar says in the scene you're introduced to it that "no one dying of thirst would even think about drinking this water."
@@tylerreed1152 I'd say its more of a wish they added it rather than a complaint they didn't. I know the lore well and aware of why they dont drink the water, but I still think it takes away some credibilty. Like you saying you are superpoor, need every penny to survive but also have a bathtub full of money but wont touch it because its holy. The big worms can been seen from a very far distance, and they're basically harmless to the Fremen. They can use them as trains, in battle like horses and as long as you make the sandwalk you're completely fine while roaming the desert. When a worm was aproching the Harkonnens they could simply levitate up to a rock. Thats why I think it would have been good to show some other things that acutally pose a threat, making the desert seem more dangerous even to the Fremen.
I don't think Paul actually saw the man's grandmother. Paul saw what words he would have to say to convince that man, and he saw that convincing the man would convince the group.
I don't know if you read the books, but IMO Paul is taking leadership of the Fremen because he feels there is no other choice. He can see the future paths and too many lead to Kralizec. He thinks maybe he can minimize the damage if he uses his foresight to lead them.
I felt like in the scene where Paul removed his ring on top of the dune signified his way into the Fremen culture. Only hiding to conceal it. I felt like this scene speaks to his true intentions more than any scene in the movie. It’s subtle, but I feel like this has been a play for some time. Paul already has tremendous foresight; remember in the first film where he mentions his responsibility to marry into the throne? Of course, this could be coincidence, but I think it speaks to his baseline foresight. Ultimately him removing that ring signified him finding the way to cultivate “desert power” as his father once exclaimed. This is important to do because he constantly being scrutinized over where his alliance lies, removing it is him stepping fully into the toll, liken to a deep undercover officer.
In the book, there is resistance to Paul being the leader because he hasn't killed Stilgar, cementing himself as the strongest and thus worthy of leadership. In the book, the speech is more focused on changing the fremen views on leadership structure, and he uses his heritage to lay claim to the whole of Arrakis as the overall leader, with Stilgar maintaining his place as the leader of seitch tabr. The movie does a great job of addressing this plot point in the book without being as on the nose. I don't necessarily agree that he was 'hiding' the ring in the movie like an undercover agent - more so that he realized, at that point, that his ducal heritage meant nothing in the desert. It was only when he needed to unite the tribes that he realized that he needs to embrace his role as both the Duke and the leader of the fremen in order to attain victory
@ interesting, I guess the charm is how you interpret Paul. Like the narrative in this video, he’s really mysterious about his intentions even early on.
Man, i remember this scene capturing me so much that i went and watched it over and over. This is the moment Paul dies and Muad Dib is born. (Eta, while he is leaning into his atreidies side a lot in this scene, its not as a person. This isnt "paul, love of Chani" this is Duke Atreidies. A better wayy for ke to say it i huess is this is the scene where a man dies and and qn Idol is raised in his place) This is the moment you realize hes not a white savior or a messiah- he is a harbinger of doom. A herald of desolation. "Your mothers warned you of my coming. Fear the moment,"
The scene where I really started noticing that dialogue was different in this film was the one where everyone is sitting outside talking. It felt like a real community talking rather than a script. Overall my feeling is that the biggest strength of the dialogue is that Paul isn't a hero, so the script doesn't have to try to artificially convince us that he is. What's interesting to me is this scene also shifted my allegiance as a watcher from Paul to Chani. At this loint paul stops being a person and becomes a force of nature playing out his destiny. Like a hurican that mightseem random but in reality derterministically following a path that we don't have deep enough knowledge to fully understand so it seems largely random to us. But Chani is making decisions. She's chosing her path based on values and feelings, so she's intensely human and what's she going to do? Though it could be because I know Paul's story but Chani's is either new or I don't remember it from the books - mostly all I remember from the later books is repeatedly thinking "what the fk? Duncan Idaho again???"
It's god-tier, but not perfect. I don't believe in anything being perfect. For example, a lot of people were left confused about how far the changes to Chani's character, improvements that they are, diverge so much emotionally from the book in ways that will require a great deal of work to smooth out in the adaptation of Messiah. I wonder if it weren't possible to include something between Paul and Chani here. Muad'dib is his nom de guerre, but Usul is his intimate, truer Fremen name. A simple whispered "Usul is only safe with you" or something like that to add that crucial foreshadowing of even more layers at play in him which is so essential to understanding he has not changed as much as his performance here suggests. But what do I know? It's always easier to reflect than to create, let alone improve on a classic in an adaptation. That said, nothing has inspired me to write for myself like Dune and I appreciate your excellent analysis.
The only thing i disliked about the 2 movies was the chani tears being prophesied. Added an unnecessary mcguffin to add importance to her character. Didnt feel like it worked mechanicaly in the story. Unless paul is acting in a coma in the remake it makes the prophocy of paul real and not so much a planted story to control people.
This scene is a horrible bastardization of the original story. In the original Paul doesn’t have to yell and scream at everyone there. He needs no bravado. He knows his power. He knows that Stilgar knows his power. He asks Stil if he can kill him in single combat. Stil tells him and everyone else that he could not. It’s a pretty movie. It’s a very bad attempt to retell the story.
Meh. I saw this scene more like a rich kid throwing a tantrum in church. Very narrow focus with little going on. Other scene’s portray Paul’s warrior king elements better.
Not sure if he brings it up but one thing thats really cool about the scene where paul challenged the fremen and they all unsheath their blades. When a fremen has pulled their crysknife it must taste blood before being resheathed. Paul lnows this and has immediately set the fremen on an immediate path to violence. Not sure why the show didnt show this aspect of the crysknife.
The ‘angry vibe’ that Paul has in his speech really captures how real life charismatic speakers use aggression to get people fired up. Notice how many times he raises his voice or speaks in a very assertive and forceful manner throughout the whole scene. There is none of that humility he initially showed at the start when he asked for a chance to fight alongside the Fremen.
The way he singles out the lone guy and talks about his grandmother looks so threatening in the way he talks, that he doesn't even look like he's trying to convince the guy and more like he's using pure intimidation to instill fear and awe. This perfectly exemplifies Dune's cautionary message about messiahs, they can get you to abandon all logic and reason and submit to raw instinctual emotion and unquestioning belief.
Paul’s speech here is what Star Wars wishes Anakin’s turn to the Darkside was
While watching the scene, I was kinda left wondering if Paul was subtly using his “Voice” to enrapture his audience. His “shouting” sounded deeper and more powerful, almost similar to when he shouts “Silence” in the throne room scene.
Kinda, Paul was also pointing out randoms whom he doesn't even know in the crowd and telling them the most intimate things about themselves and their loved ones that they believe who Paul says he is. My point being, there's a difference between tapping into a strangers emotions perfectly and perfectly knowing who a stranger is on first sight and reading their being down to an essence they can't deny.
In the book it's a little more visceral, I believe you get to be the fremens grandmother the moment he explains it because Paul literally lives those moments he speaks of the moment he speaks to the fremen about it.
it's also wild that in his perfect fusion of Fremen and Atraides, he's also embodying his Harkonnen side, the antithesis of what the other two stand identities for. he couldn't adopt both good personas without also adopting the evil one
Hegelian dialectics in a nutshell
This was the scene that sold me on Timothee's casting. I'd been personally unimpressed with him as Paul up until here, but man he nailed this scene. Great acting and directing all around
same
do you feel that way about the girI
@@Joe-sg9ll Truth be told I’m still not a fan of Zendaya’s casting. I don’t think her performance has been emotive enough, and she’s rarely ever the most compelling actor in a scene for me. I’d have gone with someone else
@willprot6752 was Chani attractive in the books
@@Joe-sg9ll I believe so. It wasn’t an issue of attractiveness for me, more so the emotion she put into the performance. Chani was supportive of Paul, especially his marriage to the Princess in the book because she knew it was just an emotionless political move and that she and Paul would still be lovers
A small correction, the Lady Jessica cannot see into the future, she just has all the memories of all past Bene Gesserit in her line via the women, and she received the memories of all the Reverend mothers of the fremen from Sietch Tabr, and alia shares those memories with her in the womb.
The ONLY one who can see the future is Paul, first small, vague and unclear memories, then complete, clear and detailed visions from any and all possible timelines.
The reason the Lady Jessica is so assertive is what Paul needs to do is because she's following the prophecies laid by the Bene Gesserit about the Kwizath Haderach (I don't remember how this is spelled lmao) and the prophecies of the Lisan Al Gaib they installed in the Fremen culture via their Missionara Protectiva, aka, cultural manipulation over the course of millenia.
She doesn't have all the memories of all the Bene Gesserit. She has fragments. Only Reverend Mothers get a complete memory, and only of the line they are the inheritors of. So she had partial from her Bene Gesserit training, and but no complete history before drinking the water of life.
And yeah, they can't see the future. They are Extremely good at predicting it through interpolation, and constructing "plans within plans" for every eventuality they think might occur, but they have no actual vision.
Exactly, Paul is pointing a new way, not a tool of the BG. As well Paul can see the future not only because of his paternal+maternal ancestral memory but because he's also a mentat, so he's able to synthesize this data about the past into predictions of the future
Jessica was a Reverend Mother at this point.@@iriswaters
@@TravisJohnsonncc1701 yes, which is why she got the memories of the Fremen line. Not all the Bene Gesserit. OP said she had all the memories of the Bene Gesserit in her line AND the memories from the Reverend Mother from the sietch. This suggests she had memories before taking the water of life. There's some notion she had fragments from her own line, but nothing suggesting anything complete.
It's never made 100% clear how much they get when they drink, but it doesn't seem they get all the memories of every Bene Gesserit. They seem to get an encapsulation from the line, and some sort of core seed memories that help align the entire order.
I _think_ Paul knows about the man's grandmother through his own access to past lives, including his mother's, now enriched with what she shared with the Fremen Reverend Mother. A bit of a jump, but he has no [Fremen] ancestors so he has to connect to them through his mother's own, new, connections.
The tragedy is actually even deeper. By accepting his role as leader of both House Atreides and the Fremen, and by promising to lead them to take over Arrakis, he's commiting himself to the only future he can see which follows that, total devastating war across the galaxy. So while being a personal triumph and tragedy, it's also leading to future triumph and tragedy
When I saw this scene in the theater, I was just as caught up in it as the Fremen were. As sacrilegious as it is to say, I was in a semi-prayerful moment while watching this. This is what amazing art can do. I'm so glad I was a part of this history-defining movie.
same. this scene was absolutely terrifying, because i thought i was above this sort of mob mentality. if i can be swayed by the crowds in a movie like this, imagine what could happen irl.
By the end of the movie I was a little upset there wasn't an interstellar Jihad that I could join.
@vismaykedilaya1318yeah I learned no one is above it. You have to try hard to stay away from it.
LISAN AL GAIB!
on the contrary I was scared of this too much real demonstration of fanaticism and blind following of sacred leaders. Seeing the eyes of Stilgar you know he will do whatever Muad'dib tells him, without the slightest doubt.
Timothy Chandelier delivered one of the best monologues of 21st century cinema and he did it in a made-up sci-fi language 🙏
He was so close to overdoing it, but damn is it good. The man made the role his!
@@upg5147 Ya Timothy Chalamalabingbong definitely got close to overdoing it at first. Felt it too. But as the scene went on i was so hooked
Timothy Clementine 🙌
I mean all languages are made up
I really like the line “Do you smash a knife before battle?” too because it tells the reader up front exactly who Paul is now and how he feels about both Stilgar and the Fremen. Stilgar is a weapon to Paul. A tool. As are the Fremen.
That's not really accurate though. In the novel it's very clear that Paul cares very deeply about the fremen*, even against his own best interest in some ways. The line was simply to convey that Paul didn't want to waste any more lives, like what happened with Jamis.
@@derek96720
I was very confused by your comment for a good minute. I'm guessing you used text to speech. 😅
@ In the novel Chani is barely a character. The films changed a lot
@@derek96720 The water of life distorted his perception of people.
@@derek96720he intentionally sends civilians to die during the battle in the first book for strategic reasons
Despite Denis's dislike towards dialogue, the speech was definitely my favourite scene. Here, Paul is using his power ON the Fremen, FOR an Atreides cause.
Paul is literally promising a paradise by undermining the Fremen own's past. His main goal is still vengeance for his father. Just because Paul is who they believed to be the god-like figure they were promise, Fremen gave up all their agency to trust him completely. It made me feel for Chani who lose her lover and her culture all at once.
I don't believe it's quite accurate to say it's an Atreides cause. Gurney is won over by the act just like everyone else. Paul is far above single houses or sides. He's embodying history itself, a terrifying perspective.
at the "give moisture to the dead" line, it also serves another purpose: with the first demonstration building peoples' faith in paul's powers, and the 2nd demonstration with the chief being a destruction of peoples' existing disloyalties. it shows the chief as being untrustworthy, thus making paul a more appealing leader for calling him out on something only the chief thought he knew.
what does that line mean? in his nightmares he gives moisture to the dead and it brings him joy?
@@Joe-sg9llCrying over people of the past in their dreams. Crying is a sin in Fremen culture as it is seen as a waste of water.
@@Joe-sg9ll in fremen culture, people don't cry, to preserve water, so giving water to the dead means to cry at one's death. It's not a common occurrence for one to do this (it's a very big deal when Paul does it in jamis's funeral in the book), and it's reserved for moments of great tragedy, so the fact that giving moisture to the dead brings joy to the chief's heart is a sign of evil. Hope that answers your question
@vismaykedilaya1318 interesting
14:00 Something that wasn't mentioned here is that Paul is framed as looking directly at Gurney when saying this line. Beyond the character development of the dialogue, there is also the practical component of reaffirming his place as member of the House that Gurney is loyal to.
reminds me a little of politicians getting caught on mic at a donor dinner promising things that their normal constituents don't care for.
he's doing the opposite here. he's declaring his dual loyalties as being aligned. he is telling both groups where he stands even though that might conflict
Nice break down. It was particularly epic in theaters.
Jessica saying "slow down" is also a mirror of the conversation with Kynes in pt 1. There Jessica says "careful" as Paul expresses his plan to marry the princess
This was my favorite scene. Seeing stilgar's face, Paul claiming the mantle and fully realizing Muad Dib, the energy of the fremen. 10/10
Thanks. Makes me appreciate the scene much more. I originally had a hard time with the movie as a whole because of how frustrated i was at how Paul's character differed so deeply from the book portrayal.
wow the timing. Just went back and rewatched that scene not 10 minutes ago
The Muad'dib star constellation is named after the desert mouse, it's tail points to the North and is known as "The One Who Points the Way" and at 4:32 Paul says HE is pointing the way.
I always found that to be an important line.
Pauls powers is actually the generic memories of his ancestors. Im guessing he had a convo with this guy in one of the futures he forsaw and learned this story. And singled him out. Its a trick. If you can see possible futures, you can find things about people they you didnt know you know. I doubt he could do that with a random person in the crowd. The whole point of his character is to show the tricks and manipulations charismatic leaders use to control people. He will be worse than Hitler. And they even say in the books. The movie gets this! Paul is the ultimate politician
word.
is the sight thing magical like that or more practical/reasonable/attainable in just being able to predict very very well?
(if Trump wins, TSLA stock will moon. if x happens and then y happens then z will happen.. etc etc.)
like a chess player
@Joe-sg9ll he is extraordinary I'm his talent with it. He is a living time stone to use a marvel reference. He was breed for it.
@@haroldf3385 can he see theoretical conversations though? or just theoretical futures
@Joe-sg9ll remember in the 1st movie there all these scenes with Jamis that never happened because the 1st time he met him, Paul killed him. If Paul had control over his visions of the future he'd know Jamis inside and out by the time he 1st met him. Like he did with the guy who's grandma lost an eye.
@Joe-sg9ll yes. Many possible conversations and futures
13:28 Duke Leto doesn’t give Paul the ducal signet. Yueh technically does.
S-Rank Content again my friend.
Your 12 Y/O grandmother crossing the belt and being maimed by a rock is def something I could have just made up on the spot but it's SOOO WELL DONE that "Damn maybe HE JUST KNOWS" is a good explainer as well LMAO
It's clearly meant to show he's got those backwards sight abilities but if it were me, a non-powered man i'd have just lied, and then said "DUNE" afterward and hoped the crowd bought it xD
he was talking to a single person though, a respected warlord with a gaggle of diehards.
you could have a plant in the crowd, that's how most do it. or arranged it beforehand. or else somehow researched their personal secrets. is it ever exposed that he used sight or was fed that info?
I think someone like Thiel could do this now. if he loaded up Palantir and wrote down some bullet points, then confronts anyone in the world with it..
This is easily the most powerful scene I’ve seen in cinema in the past decade. It’s truly incredible in every way.
Villeneuve just had a 1-on-1 episode on Variety's RUclips channel release in which he said he feels "he failed in making Dune, because it had too much dialogue..." and he "wishes he could have made it with even less". It's wild to me that he considers his Dune, a movie who's world is largely built off visual spectacle and who's characters thoughts and motivations are often defined by the subtlest of movements and expressions, as having too much dialogue. I wouldn't change a single thing about this scene, yet he probably wishes it had half the dialogue it does XD
I think the films are amazing but on a certain level I think I understand Dennis. To Dennis' credit, the book is dialogue heavy and subtley gives alot of exposition and lore through dialogue yet there's alot of visual and visceral things that were kind of brushed over, for example the coded hand language they have. In the books, people carry on a banal conversation while have sign language with codes of what's really happening at the same time. Also my other biggest complaint is Paul's visions, the floor moves and Paul seizes out and Paul has kind of an "aha" moment, where in the books Paul literally lives in so many moments at once until he runs into the path he seeks but in a sense he literally lives every vision that he has (albeit doing scenes like that coherently would be very hard to pull off, I still wished Dennis could do it. They would be so amazing).
I mean it was pretty obvious, but surprised you didn't bring up the fact of the reveal of the translation of Lisan al Gaib at this point in the movie as well. We hear it over and over again leading up to this scene, and in what you call the climax of the scene it's finally revealed to us (at least us who haven't read the books lol). Very effective I thought
7:04 its almost as if he is standing in the mouth of a worm with each knife a tooth
I randomly watched the last 45 minutes of this movie last night, starting with when he walks through the crowd outside the sietch. This scene is absolutely insane in the best way possible, the culmination of incredible storytelling and acting.
6:48 I did speeches like this thru my twenties in to my thirties every weekend after the first bottle of Chantre
I've only watched this movie one time and it's still so vivid in my mind. I don't think it's comparable to any other film in the '20s so far.
Thank you for a great breakdown, pointing out to what makes great dialog and how it fits in great storytelling. I loved this scene and its obvious ingredients. A small but amazing detail I loved was the crouch Paul did as he started to talk to the Fremen with the grandmother, as if to say "let me come down to your level"...
Man this is how you do a turn. Anakin's turn should have come like this. Eren's turn could have been this.
You're a bit off with the Dune lore and religion
Say, when you say it's a nod to Jesus and his imagery. The religion in Dune is far more inspired by Islam (well, they recognize Jesus as a prophet too, and frank herbert is still a westerner himself, but still). Paul becoming the Mahdi is call back to the Mahdi in Islam, with a new prophet (but not half man half god like Jesus, because Muslim don't believe in that, or the trinity.) Frank Herbert actually went through the trouble of seeing how the religion would mix and influence each other, to form his universe, so it should be acknowledged, imho. It's not just a simple call back to Christiannity/western tradition
And it's important, because Dune suceeds in large part due to how unfamiliar it all is. If it was rooted in Christiannity, it wouldn't work on western audience. And you can't just reskin the Christian religion and be done with it, you've got to work in the deeper aspects
I’m a long time fan of this channel and this is the first time I hear you say your name. My pleasure!
Paul is a strong man archetype in that scene. Power is Power, and he showed his power there; he needed to without. The Fermen wouldn't have fully united and where a body without a head.
Javier's Stilgar is awesome. The difference between the other portrayals were good but I think I needed to see the religious fanatic.
the best scene in the movie
Anger, fear, grief, shame and awe. These are the emotional tones Paul invokes before stating his political goal, his ascendancy. It's a very efficient scene.
Thanks for so eloquently put into words how I felt the first time I experienced this scene in theaters. I honestly felt like Stilgar and also wanted to yell out Lisan Al-gaib.
Your work deserves more views and likes. Hoping to send that good juju your way.
This scene gives me the chills. It almost makes me want to bow down and worship him.
Off topic. Think this is the first time in my RUclips viewing history that ever had a 45 second ad.. 10 second ad followed by a 45 second one.
Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but longer ads are definitely on the way...!
Lol I just watched this scene like 2 hours ago
You can definitely see the inspiration George RR Martin would've taken when he was making his stories :)
"Astro-tribalism has been around a long time" yeah...since the Dune BOOKS. Don't show Star Wars there, that's just a ripoff lol.
Exactly. The inspiration is so unbelievably blatant.
The desert planet, the chosen one (played completely straight in star wars), the Jedi mind tricks being a 1:1 ripoff of the voice, Jedi being functionally bene Gesserit and the focus on melee combat because of technological reasons.
They even put a sandworm reference in the asteroid. George was not subtle.
This is a certified “High on potenuse” moment
@@wumbojetI mean these are incredibly surface level aspects. Chosen one stories were not invented by Dune and the worlds are incredibly different and have very different stories to tell.
I heard that at the time, George Lucas considered Dune unfilmable. So, he wrote Star Wars.
@@benjaminklein8379They may be now, but back then? Mind you Sci Fi of Star Wars type (fantasy but in high technology space faring civilisations) only became popular after Star Wars (Star Trek is a bit different).
So many videos can be made about this scene alone.
7:50 Movie?
Avatar
5:30 Jessica can't see into the future. other than that great video
The Avatar movies didn't have the Na'vi make use of tech until the second movie
The "showing instead of telling" in movies is a really good rule. One thing I missed from the Dune movies is they keep telling me how dangerous the Desert is. There are spiders, spirits and alot of other stuff that can kill you but we never see any execept for the shai-hulud's ofc. We're also told every single water drop is important and they are killing each other over them, but apperently the sietches can have huge indoor pools of spare water. And there are also millions of Fremen more in the South, so there has to be lots of water to support that huge population, I know the suits help alot but still.
Odd thing to have a gripe with. We see how dangerous the desert is by how fast worms can appear. We know it's void of resources for living without support systems. The spoken dialogue about that just reinforces these things. The water in the Sietches are not spare water supplies. It's water collected from bodies of fremen, intended for use to transform the face of Arrakis. It is plainly stated in both the books and movies. It is not water for drinking, it is sacred. They've been collecting it for thousands of years. Stilgar says in the scene you're introduced to it that "no one dying of thirst would even think about drinking this water."
@@tylerreed1152 I'd say its more of a wish they added it rather than a complaint they didn't. I know the lore well and aware of why they dont drink the water, but I still think it takes away some credibilty. Like you saying you are superpoor, need every penny to survive but also have a bathtub full of money but wont touch it because its holy.
The big worms can been seen from a very far distance, and they're basically harmless to the Fremen. They can use them as trains, in battle like horses and as long as you make the sandwalk you're completely fine while roaming the desert. When a worm was aproching the Harkonnens they could simply levitate up to a rock. Thats why I think it would have been good to show some other things that acutally pose a threat, making the desert seem more dangerous even to the Fremen.
I don't think Paul actually saw the man's grandmother. Paul saw what words he would have to say to convince that man, and he saw that convincing the man would convince the group.
Messiah is going to be exquisite
I don't know if you read the books, but IMO Paul is taking leadership of the Fremen because he feels there is no other choice. He can see the future paths and too many lead to Kralizec. He thinks maybe he can minimize the damage if he uses his foresight to lead them.
My favourite scene of Dune 2
Fuck it, yeah I'll watch it again for the 10th time
He is the Neravarine!
I felt like in the scene where Paul removed his ring on top of the dune signified his way into the Fremen culture. Only hiding to conceal it. I felt like this scene speaks to his true intentions more than any scene in the movie. It’s subtle, but I feel like this has been a play for some time. Paul already has tremendous foresight; remember in the first film where he mentions his responsibility to marry into the throne? Of course, this could be coincidence, but I think it speaks to his baseline foresight. Ultimately him removing that ring signified him finding the way to cultivate “desert power” as his father once exclaimed. This is important to do because he constantly being scrutinized over where his alliance lies, removing it is him stepping fully into the toll, liken to a deep undercover officer.
In the book, there is resistance to Paul being the leader because he hasn't killed Stilgar, cementing himself as the strongest and thus worthy of leadership. In the book, the speech is more focused on changing the fremen views on leadership structure, and he uses his heritage to lay claim to the whole of Arrakis as the overall leader, with Stilgar maintaining his place as the leader of seitch tabr. The movie does a great job of addressing this plot point in the book without being as on the nose. I don't necessarily agree that he was 'hiding' the ring in the movie like an undercover agent - more so that he realized, at that point, that his ducal heritage meant nothing in the desert. It was only when he needed to unite the tribes that he realized that he needs to embrace his role as both the Duke and the leader of the fremen in order to attain victory
@ interesting, I guess the charm is how you interpret Paul. Like the narrative in this video, he’s really mysterious about his intentions even early on.
Nah bro the scene that made Paul Atreides is GOING SOUTH for a lot of reasons
Man, i remember this scene capturing me so much that i went and watched it over and over. This is the moment Paul dies and Muad Dib is born. (Eta, while he is leaning into his atreidies side a lot in this scene, its not as a person. This isnt "paul, love of Chani" this is Duke Atreidies. A better wayy for ke to say it i huess is this is the scene where a man dies and and qn Idol is raised in his place) This is the moment you realize hes not a white savior or a messiah- he is a harbinger of doom. A herald of desolation.
"Your mothers warned you of my coming. Fear the moment,"
Earliest I've ever been. Hype
Where do the clip with the people drumming come from? 8.00
good video, very Interesting
What's the Movie at 8:00?
This scene ab so lute ly slaps. God damn
OMG talk more about Dune hrnnngggg
The scene where I really started noticing that dialogue was different in this film was the one where everyone is sitting outside talking. It felt like a real community talking rather than a script. Overall my feeling is that the biggest strength of the dialogue is that Paul isn't a hero, so the script doesn't have to try to artificially convince us that he is.
What's interesting to me is this scene also shifted my allegiance as a watcher from Paul to Chani. At this loint paul stops being a person and becomes a force of nature playing out his destiny. Like a hurican that mightseem random but in reality derterministically following a path that we don't have deep enough knowledge to fully understand so it seems largely random to us. But Chani is making decisions. She's chosing her path based on values and feelings, so she's intensely human and what's she going to do?
Though it could be because I know Paul's story but Chani's is either new or I don't remember it from the books - mostly all I remember from the later books is repeatedly thinking "what the fk? Duncan Idaho again???"
It's god-tier, but not perfect. I don't believe in anything being perfect. For example, a lot of people were left confused about how far the changes to Chani's character, improvements that they are, diverge so much emotionally from the book in ways that will require a great deal of work to smooth out in the adaptation of Messiah. I wonder if it weren't possible to include something between Paul and Chani here. Muad'dib is his nom de guerre, but Usul is his intimate, truer Fremen name. A simple whispered "Usul is only safe with you" or something like that to add that crucial foreshadowing of even more layers at play in him which is so essential to understanding he has not changed as much as his performance here suggests.
But what do I know? It's always easier to reflect than to create, let alone improve on a classic in an adaptation. That said, nothing has inspired me to write for myself like Dune and I appreciate your excellent analysis.
The only thing i disliked about the 2 movies was the chani tears being prophesied. Added an unnecessary mcguffin to add importance to her character.
Didnt feel like it worked mechanicaly in the story. Unless paul is acting in a coma in the remake it makes the prophocy of paul real and not so much a planted story to control people.
Paul was definitely acting like he was in a coma. It was the final nail in the coffin that convinced the Fremen that he is the one.
very cool
Lisan al Gaib!!!
Anyone else learn this speech phonetically?
Dune *PART* 2... *sigh*
Have you been watching Dune Prophecy at all?
This scene is a horrible bastardization of the original story. In the original Paul doesn’t have to yell and scream at everyone there. He needs no bravado. He knows his power. He knows that Stilgar knows his power. He asks Stil if he can kill him in single combat. Stil tells him and everyone else that he could not.
It’s a pretty movie. It’s a very bad attempt to retell the story.
good video, but audio mixing is a little off. your voice is way quiet
Everyone sounds quiet compared to the Lisan al Gaib
@@Antenox As it was written!
I just wish the script had Paul saying “foolish” instead of “stupid”, felt really out of place for the scene and the character
To be fair, his character is still a teenager.
@ he’s the cwizzers hadderack or whatever g, he should know better
3:19 Leto not Leo
Meh. I saw this scene more like a rich kid throwing a tantrum in church. Very narrow focus with little going on.
Other scene’s portray Paul’s warrior king elements better.
I try to watch it but that voice fry is very annoying
Not sure if he brings it up but one thing thats really cool about the scene where paul challenged the fremen and they all unsheath their blades. When a fremen has pulled their crysknife it must taste blood before being resheathed. Paul lnows this and has immediately set the fremen on an immediate path to violence.
Not sure why the show didnt show this aspect of the crysknife.