Skyrim VS Dark Souls (Dragonborn VS Chosen Undead) | DEATH BATTLE!
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2023
- The Last Dovahkiin and the champion of Lordran cross blades!
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Развлечения
The biggest advantage the Dragonborn has over Chosen Undead is the ability to pause during battle to drink dozens of potions
Wouldn't even notice
IIRC the Neravarine could one-up that with being able to save state in lore
@@2-bit567 fr i want a vid with the nevavarine it would be awsome
@@2-bit567 Or just with potions tbh. Dovakhin have nothing on 10k weightless master potions of evertyhing, including stacked health regen of 300% health per sec, lasting for the next 3 months.
They also neglected to mention the restoration potion glitch
>be me
>chosen undead
>lived countless lives in constant combat
>some weirdo claiming to have the soul of a dragon wants to fight
>almost reduce him to atoms within seconds
>watch, in horror, as he eats 57 raw cabbage heads, 4 pounds of cheese, and some weird red juice
>he then precedes to scream so loud that my soul is transported to a black rock
- you can still smell the cheese breath he had
This is the funniest thing I have ever read about fighting The Dragonborn, dear God.
Until you figure out Dragonborn slain Alduin, which can consume Infinity, so basically he/she overpowered and became Infinity
And then repeat.
I love the detail that the Dragonborn didn’t realize he could shout again until the Chosen Undead started talking.
In reality, the Thu'um would not have been silenced. The Thu'um isn't magic, as it does not depend on Magicka. Instead, what the Thu'um actually is interfering with the World Song, which forces things straight into reality. Its a reality bending ability that isn't refined. The Dwemer built their cities using a more refined and advanced usage of this concept in nothing more than a single whisper. Their metal was also made in this way, which is why no one can make it. Unless the silencing works on all sounds, the Thu'um could not have been stopped by it.
@@craigdellicarpini772 I know but they present it as stopping all sounds, and I just appreciate the consistency.
@@craigdellicarpini772 you do realize the thu'um is dragon speech, not magic i know but literally a dragon talking, so yes vow of silence would effect the speech also.
@@demonpride1975 Vow of Silence does not work on bosses, even though they specifically spell cast. Moonlight Butterfly is a specific example. That being said, the Vow of Silence specifically counteracts magic. The Thu'um isn't related to magic in any way, shape, or form. The Thu'um is sound which Vow of Silence, even in Dark Souls, doesn't cancel out.
@@craigdellicarpini772 first off the dragonborn is not a boss, miraak may be but not the last dragonborn, secondly dragon shouting is a form of magic for dragons.
Dragonborn only started taking the fight seriously when he realized the chosen undead wasnt phased by taking an arrow to the knee
this is gold reference
“What sorcery is this” is the reaction of the Skyrim
Gaurds
CU: what this tooth pick? You should see what I had to navigate through
- cuts to silver knights shooting umbrellas-
He honestly was holding back lmao, i mean taking on a being that can eat multiple infinity's? Yeah no he was definitely holding back
Undead: you want an arrow? I’ve GOT arrows! (Takes out gough’s great bow)
Dragonborn: *Walks into water*
Chosen Undead: “Wait, that’s illegal”
Dragonborn: "Don't worry, I'm completely helpless in here!"
@@Timmothy_plays not if you get the boots that let you walk on water.
Dragonborn: *jump*
Chosen Undead: And I took that personally!!
Dragonborn: *Walks on water*
Chosen Undead: “Oh didn’t think the water was shallow. I guess I’ll just follow y-“ *falls to his death because he’s to heavy or something*
That's right, the Dovahkiin can swim. In fact you could just win the fight by knocking your opponent into the water and having them instantly die. Good Ole instant drowning mechanic.
You know, in a cosmic sort of way,
it feels fitting that the only thing that can truly defeat a player character, is another player character.
It all comes down to "My character is stronger than yours"... Better known as "All roads lead to Games Workshop" xD
@@cardengixoth6878Not for me... My Tarnished is not winning against My Bloodborne Hunter....
But My Bloodborne Hunter is not winning against My Monster Hunter....
@@cardengixoth6878 lmao
yeah, I am god-tier until someone invades my game... then I am fucked...
@@cardengixoth6878 Who coined that saying?
16:12 Dragonborn: *sees Chosen Undead pull Smough's great hammer out of thin air.* "I'm fighting another person like me with infinite pocket space? I sense a worthy challenge!"
DB: Magic satchel? Cool I have one too. *Millions of the different types of food, gems, armours, building supplies, ores, smithing supplies, books, letters, claws, masks, armor, robes, weapons, bones, scales, ingredients, gold, and more stuff i dont feel like naming fall to the ground making a mountain.* Crap it's going to take forever to clean this up.
Hammer space!
Our battle will be legendary!
I would also say that he said finally a worthy opponent our battle will be legendary
Infinite pocket space.. without weight!
Chosen Undead: "This one's tough, I need to give my all to win this!"
Last Dragonborn: "Oh cool I can fill my star with this guy."
Db: Hey free black souls for my empty gems. Neet.
Chosen undead is gonna ninja flip behind the dragonborn and chain infinite backstabs til he dies, then point down at his corpse
Except he didn't and he still lost anyway. I have no idea why you have that pointless comment made when you can watch the video proving you wrong.
@@Cloud-bs2knhe couldn’t.
Beyond the fact that the Dragonborn was hundreds of times faster, stronger, and more durable, if he was ever desperate he could just use dragon aspect to make himself even stronger and more durable, or bend well to make the chosen undead give up.
I mean there was still nothing at all pointing to the DB being faster in any sense other than having time-slow abilities and a bow that can shoot absurdly fast, so that part ain't quite true. That and they kinda extremely high-balled their power levels by saying Alduin's practically infinitely strong, when in reality he'd only need to have dimensional level power in order to threaten a multiverse (cause well, obviously only one realm can directly fight him at a time). @@Steven-lz1vo
Unrealistic, if it was the dragonborn, he would have been far away crouching trying to get a sneak attack with the bow, then hide in a corner until he's in stealth again
Huh, must've been the wind...
And a lot of summons and vabbajacking😊
Little upset that didn't make the joke of him crouching and suddenly being hidden.
@@Bdakkon And I'm confused: where's Lidya?)))
no, no, no and no! he'll be crouching right in front of him in plain sight yet still be unseen!
Spoilers:
So the Dragonborn basically won by making the Chosen Undead rage quit. Honestly? Seems legit.
No it more like the chosen undead was becoming more of a hollow each time
There are many ways to kill someone. But to break a warrior's spirit is to truly destroy him.
@game universe I mean tbh it makes sense, but it wouldn't actually happen. Bro would just keep fighting
@@gameuniverse5973 I agree with both of your claims. My understanding of "Hollow" as a game mechanic is that you delete the save file.
It was over as soon the Chosen Undead took an arrow to the knee. He just couldn't be an adventurer after that anymore.
Ok not gonna lie if Bethesda would have allowed us to shout after impaling an enemy to deal extra damage or as a finisher it would have been epic. This was one of my favorite death battles. I laughed so much as the Chosen Undead kept rolling.
as a sort of fatality like the weapons have?
Mods can help you with that.
If you think about the Dragonborn lore as well then the result becomes even more understandable. A lyric in the song "Dovahkiin" goes: *Voth aan suleyk wah ronit faal krein!*, or "With a power to rival the sun!" Now remember in the ES lore that the "Sun" isn't actually a star but a giant hole in Aetherius caused by the retreating et'Ada Magnus, and this hole is the source of ALL magic in Nirn.
i dont think we should take that literally though, as that could just be hyperbole to state how strong the dragonborn is compared to normal humans
@@Krimsin01 Yea but if I dont take everything as a literal as possible, I cant shriek at strangers on the internet who are wrong.
@@Krimsin01 everything in elder scrolls is to be taken literally nirn isnt a planet its an infinite realm with infinite copies and timelines in mundus, the lore is really wacky and there is no such thing as "normal" about elder scrolls
@@kraal5753 The opposite is true, actually. The lore of the Elder Scrolls is one of unreliable narrators, where nothing is 100% guaranteed to be true, not even what you experience in games (source, the fact that in Morrowind, you could back any of the houses, and canonically, thanks to a Dragon Break, all of them are true despite being mutually exclusive... and none of them are.) , that being said, in this case, due to the Dragonborn having a part of the Oversoul of Aka, I'm lead to believe that this... isn't too far off from likely being true
Ahh yes songs, very accurate portrayals that never exaggerate anything!
i must say, little sad yall didnt have the dragonborn stop to eat cheese and the chosen undead stop and drink his flask but it was still amazing
I full on expected that to happen in the fight, shame it didn't though
thats the first thing i thought when the fight started
After seeing Arrow To the Knee and Ludwig's Moonlight Great sword reunion I really expected to have a full 5 second time out where they're both cramming their mouths with healing items
The dragonborn doesn't stop to eat cheese, the dragonborn eats cheese at instant speed. Probably did it several times during that fight, and the chosen undead didn't see it so assumed it was some kind of honor duel thing and just didn't heal.
It wouldve changed the tone of the fight
This is going to be the first Death Battle where somebody wins because their opponent glitches out and crashes the fight. Good ol' Skyrim.
A mammoth spawns 20ft above em and lands on them both.
Nah, I prefer a giant to just send both of them into the stratosphere.
Or they both die bc of gravity
Is dark souls one the original version is not as glitchy
Don't forget one of the players will glitch through the the ground and fall to their death. That happened to both games as well. Why can't wait to see if glitchy aspects are added to the game.
Me playing as the Chosen Undead and never giving up after fighting the same boss (The Dragonborn) for the 7 billionth time:
“Nah, I’d win”
Assuming the Chosen Undead is controlled by a true Dark Souls player who never gives up then the Dragonborn is controlled by a true Skyrim player who uses all kinds of exploits, glitches and quicksaves.
@@unskilledgamer3642 And Mods, dont forget the Mods
@@unskilledgamer3642 Fortify health enchant after doing the the fortify restoration potion loop.
@@gavros9636 exactly.
@@unskilledgamer3642 AHAHAHAHAHH you made my day
Chosen Undead: "This is the hardest fight I've ever had!"
The Last Dragonborn: "What a annoying bandit!"
Imagine telling a dark souls player that they will give up a difficult boss battle. Never gonna happen
I purposely use crap weapons and armour to make boss fights more difficult lol
Well this is a boss you'll never beat
Imagine telling a Skyrim player that they will never be able to save and reload and use console commands. Because the term for that in the Lore is CHIMs which the DB would have. So that would never happen either.
@@cherrycola4476 well to be fair some players beat all of dark souls complete naked using only their fists.
So if the chosen undead can beat an ancient dragon with his fists while naked he could do the same with the dragon born
@@nerdothn892 those bosses are reactable and can't slow time.
Undead Chosen: "Why won't you die!?"
Dragonborn: "Cheese rolls, son. They heal the most major injuries."
Making the mother of all Sweet Rolls, Chosen. Can’t fret over every egg.
Cheese rolls, son, They harden in response to physical trauma
Healing the mother of all health bars Chosen. Can't fret over every cheese wheel.
MAKE SKYRIM NORD AGAIN!
Skyrim as a Metal Gear reference. The only thing better would be to tie in a Jojo Reference. 😂
Minor inconsequential nitpick: when the Dovahkiin uses storm call in the fight he shouts "Lok Vah Kor", which is actually the shout for clear skies
so I wasn't the only one confused. Good.
And its impossible to summon Oddwing if there is a ceiling.
@@Zahnpuppyjust swap it for Durnehvir, more powerful dragon anyway
Listen to the voice line they use, it's "Strun Bah Qo" (Storm Call). The last vowel for both shouts is similar so its a forgivable thing to mishear.
These guys just pick whoever they want to win, they don't actually do research- after all these years I'd expect people to recognize this.
I love the fact that when the Dragonborn hits an arrow on the Chosen Undead's knee, the former just removes it like normal and Dragonborn is confused because in the games most guards stop fighting all because of an ''arrow in the knee'' truly a good observation right there.
Honestly a little sad we didn't get to see the dragonborn slow down time, then call in 2 dragons, summon 3 spiritual heroes, conjure up 2 demons with giant swords, use an ability that resurrects every body within 100 feet under his command, and still have time to pop a giant glowing dragon aura and eat 100 wheels of cheese and 1 vegetable soup just before time resumes again.
Skyrim mages when they see something stronger than a draugr deathlord:
Yeah bit of a missed opportunity that.
It's this same OP ability that makes the dragonborn effectively invincible. Pause, chug 6 glitched potions that give 1000% immunity to everything for 1000 seconds, chug 6 more potions to cast spells and shout infinitely.
@@falcie7743 so roid rage times 100000000
FACTS 🤣
Disappointed the Dragonborn didn't freeze time and eat 150 wheels of cheese to recover mid-fight
I'm disappointed they didn't give him better armor. I mean, I know the classic iron armor is iconic, but he should've at least had Daedric.
Ikr, just absolutely stuff his face with everything he has since he forgot to pack up potions, lol.
@@Smasho8000 wouldnt be surpised if that armour was forged to high heaven with some high enchantments
He did, just that we couldn't see it because from our perspective he did nothing, but from his pov he ate a lot of cheese to heal 🤙
Or flat out hit the pause button to heal completely and swap out his armor only to unpause and be completely fine instantly
10000 lbs isn't the Dragonborn's weight limit. This is just the amount of weight he can run with. If he just wanted to walk, he can carry an infinite amount if I remember correctly. Also, everyone's forgetting that Dragonborn can also summon a daedra. So, he could simply banish the undead to a different realm with the help of the daedra where the darksoul lore would cease to exist.
By that logic the chosen undead has no weight limit either, so long as the items are not currently equipped he can hold infinite weight and move at full speed while doing so.
@@Cloud-bs2kn actually the inventory is limited in ds1. 10000 units or so and you cant carry more or roll or run.
With a well crafted god ring u can carry infinite and basically have Insane stats
@@alexanderthelegend7988 using that alchemy exploit I easily had my dragonborn with 100k+ carry weight.
Im gonna point out that the chosen undead carries a box that can hold infinite items, even items that wouldn't physically be able to enter the box (I.e. smougs hammer) and still able to run and jump
Plot twist; this was Dragonborn's sidequest
A shame we didn't get a scene of the Chosen Undead beating on the Dragonborn and he's suddenly like, "Hol' up man." And proceeds to lock eyes with him as he eats 50 wheels of cheese.
Not to mention down an unacceptable number of gallons of Nord Mead
What's wring with you fools? You forgot the 1000 potatoes!
Oh yeah....maybe that's why the dragonborn wasn't damaged as much as he looked. He must've been pausing and chugging a lot of that food.
Don't foget, if you run out of food, there are the possibly very addictive healing potions you brewed last week.
@Christopher Frye addictive healing potions? Pfft! You sound jealous that the Dragonborn's healing potions heal him for trillions of hit points a second over a period of a billion years thanksvto the fortify restoration glitch!
I think the greatest factor of this fight was that Dragonborn could probably consume way more blocks of cheese than Chosen Undead can.
Both are still cliff level or the cliffs are universal either or
Sheogorath: CHEESE!
Good old cheese wheel☺️
I waited the whole fight for a menu to pup up and then watching the Dragonborn eat ungodly amounts of cheese wheels.
Don’t forget the white phial. Self regenerating healing potion. There are so many reasons this isn’t even fair 😂
I know the Chosen Undead ultimately is a weaker opponent, but that "prepare to die" reference.....man that gave me goosebumps
Head head dark nuhmbo.
I wish they had mentioned this but the Dragonborn could also use the Dragonrend shout. The game effect is that it forces dragons to land, but the lore effect is that it forces immortal creatures to experience mortality. I feel like if anything would have been able to kill the Chosen Undead for good, that would be it.
Except the Chosen Undead are very experienced with mortality, sure they cannot die like you or I, but they live mortal lives and cherish them before they hollow. It's why so many seek a cure or go to impossible lengths to be remembered. They don't want what they perceive as their mortality and soul to leave them or be forgotten
@@Nyx_Eos that's not even the definition of the word they mean.
I don't like the Dragonborn winning but, they got a point. That would've been a more satisfying end
@@calliecalamity8787 Ah, apologies, it seems I made a mistake reading their comment
The chosen undead pulling his sword deeper so that he could reach him was metal af. Another banger fight
Definitely something Guts would do. Glad they know the material DS draws a lot from
@@zentazym1 if Guts ever kills Griffith that’s how he would do it
@@DJET723 100% agree.
Much like Dragonzord v.s. Kiryu 0w0
Not just reach him but flat out strangle him XD
I get the logic too. From his perspective, can't do Voice Magic if you can't speak lol that and probably got tired of his opponent's nonsense
Every dark souls and eldenring player knows that the "Naked" undead are truly the most powerful beings
Right, where was hyper mode dragon boy
Aren't the tarnished from elden ring different from the undead lore-wise?
Let Me Solo Her would've beat both easily
Let me Solo him
Dreambeaker é uma arma letal para os mortos-vivos, não importa o que seja que ele causa dano de fogo para inimigos comuns e muito dano para os mortos-vivos
I loved the concept of this fight. This really was a fight between an unstoppable force (Dovakin) vs an immovable object (The undead). I loved how the song feels like what the Chosen Undead is singing in their head too, while it feels like someone is singing about the Dovakin's legendary status. The Chosen Undead aspires to be the legendary hero that the Dovakin already is. Ik I ranted, but this fight was so cool and displayed the badassery of The Chosen Undead so well.
One could say the dovakin was a “unrelenting force”
Thank you I’ll be here all night
I like this but Lore Accurate Dragonborn it was not lol. A lore accurate Dragonborn is not that far away from fighting a God. Even without weapons, magic, alchemy, or physical might, anything they can put into words is possible with shouts.
I won’t lie at the end of it I thought the chosen undead was going to become the soul of cinder
The Dragonborn also has the "bend will" shout, which is a shout that literally alters reality from how it's described- there's a chance that the Dragonborn could use the shout to literally just make the Chosen Undead give up.
Isn't the entire point of the CU their cast iron will to never fall until they've finally linked the first flame?
@@Fanimati0n not how fictional crossover work.
This logic literally applies as same on higher scale to the Dragonborn as he is a cosmic entity name the prisoner/Hero that unbound by fate/time/causality and outside all possibilities and impossibilites, with no canonically look or race or gender or even personality but just embodiment of the player itself.
Dragonborn is just beyond DS verse on all aspects.
Dragonborn beat Alduin twice.
Alduin is the World-Eater and destroy the world and re-create a new one, and he already have done it countless times in the past.
"Alduin destroy the World to create a new one.
"Alduin (World Eater): Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Nine Divines. For example, Alduin's sobriquet, 'the world eater', comes from myths that depict him as the horrible, ravaging firestorm that destroyed the last world to begin this one. Nords therefore see the god of time as both creator and harbinger of the apocalypse"
-Lore:Varieties_of_Faith...Alduin
Umiral's father was a lasser God from the previous kalpa.
"and spoke of his father, a god of the [previous kalpa's] World-River and taking great delight in the heavy-breathing of Pelinal who had finally bled"
-The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v7
In fact in Skyrim he was going destroy it if we didn't stop him in Sovngarde.
Alduin was going destroy the World confirmed by Arngeir if you don't stop him
"Dragonborn: the blades just want to defeat Alduin don't you ?"
"Arngeir: What I want is irrelevant. This Shout was used once before, was it not? And here we are again. Have you considered that Alduin was not meant to be defeated? Those who overthrew him in ancient times only postponed the day of reckoning, they did not stop it. If the world is meant to end, so be it. Let it end and be reborn"
-Arngeir
Arngeir have told us that "If the world is meant to end, so be it, Let it end and be reborn".
Dragonborn: the blades just want to defeat Alduin don't you ?
Arngeir: What I want is irrelevant. This Shout was used once before, was it not? And here we are again. Have you considered that Alduin was not meant to be defeated? Those who overthrew him in ancient times only postponed the day of reckoning, they did not stop it. If the world is meant to end, so be it. Let it end and be reborn
-Arngeir
"paarthurnax ask you why you would stop him from destroy the World
"Dragonborn: I like this world. I don't want it to end"
"Paarthurnax: Pruzah. As good a reason as any. There are many who feel as you do, although not all. Some would say that all things must end, so that the next can come to pass. Perhaps this world is simply the Egg of the next kalpa? Lein vokiin? Would you stop the next world from being born"
-paarthurnax
Todd Howard himself confirmed Alduin was going eat the World.
Kurt Kuhlmann: The Nords have this god in their pantheon, Alduin.
Todd Howard: Alduin, who is this...I don't want to say evil, but dark, god, in the Elder Scrolls lore. He is a dragon.
Kurt Kuhlmann: In the ancient times he sorta ruled over the humans in this part of the world.
Todd Howard: And the prophecy goes that "he will return and eat the world" ...well that's what happens in Skyrim!
-
Todd Howard
Dragons are creation of Akatosh that make the flow of time go without it being destroyed.
Paarthunax literally said this world will continue to exist at last until Alduin back ( when the Gods want end the World) and he can't see the the past end of the World, because when Alduin destroy the World he literally destroy Time itself ( not the concept of time) with it.
The world is a better place without Alduin.
Perhaps. At least it will continue to exist. Grik los lein. And, as you told me once, the next world will have to take care of itself. Ful nii lost. Even I cannot see past Time's ending.
-paarthurnax
Dragonborn have Immeasurable speed for keep up and beat Alduin.
Alduin did once have speed blitz Jills who are unbound by time and travel to fix other timelines.
"There were also the twenty-two Thunder-Scaled Jills unbound by time and so served as Ysmaalithax’s oracle-oocytes until the Ald’uin would burn them away".
The_Five_Hundred_Mighty_Companions_or_Thereabouts_of_Ysgramor_the_Returned
Also there's fact that Alduin was able return to Time after being cast outside of it completely.
As well confirmed to be.
"Alkhan. The Scaled Prince. Firstborn of Akha, who bred with a demon of fire and shadow. He can devour the souls of those he kills to grow to an immense size. The songs tell us Alkhan was slain by Lorkhaj and his companions, but as an immortal Son of Akha he will return from the Many Paths in time. He is the enemy of Alkosh, Khenarthi, and Lorkhaj, and ever hungers for his crown"
-Lore:The_Wandering_Spirits
Note: the many path of time is concept of time itself and Alkhan is Khajiit name for Alduin.
Alduin's very nature as a god means he is trancendant over the concept of time, and he is stated to have flown from the depths of time
Alduin came back from depths of time itself, and this alone warped reality to a degree similar to a dragonbreak, an events where space-time continuum of Mundus get twisted to the point destroy liner of time (past, present and future) all things back to chaos of Dawn Era.
"Lawrence Schick:It can be further changed by those who can channel magicka and force their will upon it. Right, that's what magic is. Changing reality locally...sometimes locally usually temporarily but you're changing reality, and creatures and characters and beings of mythological levels can change reality in big ways! And that's what happens when you get a Dragonbreak, or a planemeld, or an Oblivion Crisis, or Alduin coming back from the depths of time. You've got reality changing in big ways"
-Lawrence Schick
ok but incredibly minor nitpick but technically all shouts alter reality. they aren't just powers tied to sound but the character actually commanding reality to obey and it does. when you use the fire breath shout you are literally just telling reality that there is fire there now and regardless of anything else the universe will listen and fire will exist. at least that's to my understanding but elder scrolls lore is crazy confusing sometimes
@@blademasterzero Well, yes technically, but bend will is that in a much more literal sense- you can straight up brainwash mfers or destroy things, or change their shape, etc with bend will.
@@neurotic3015 your correct but it’s still exactly like other shouts. Your just commanding the object or being itself to do what you will it to, which does make it far more powerful than your average shout but it functions identically to the others. I don’t know why I’m phrasing this like an argument
Dragonborn: (Shoots the Chosen Undead in the knee)
Chosen Undead: (Takes arrow out)
Dragonborn: (Surprised Pikachu face)
Tis just a flesh wound
He thought he would just say, "screw it, I'll become a guard."
"I was an adventurer until I took an arrow to the knee, but then I got over it and pulled it out and shot it back"
Chosen Undead: *moans*
"That's not a bow, this is a bow." To be honest I thought that was what the Pikachu face was about.
Bit of a minor spoiler.
The fact that there wasn't a energy clash between the Moonlight Greatsword and Bloodskal Blade is such a missed opportunity.
Exactly
@@themastersofcomedy9277 Well blood scale blade scales of the level you are when ya first get it so if a maxed out dragon born used it it would have one tapped the chosen undead and the entire arena to.
Damn! I didn't even think of that!!
@@lights_utopia1130 yeah
Right?! Imagine red Magicka slashes clashing against the moonlight greatswords energy slashes! Although I do like the typical clash of the sun (Dawnbreaker) vs the moon (moonlight greatsword) with that final clash.
I didn't realize till now they're final clash was the moonlight greatsword vs the dawnbreaker; a sword of darkness and a sword of light. Like how freakin biblical can ya get XD
I wish the Dovahkiin could have clashed with the bloodskaal blade first, then switched
I swear ive watched it so many times, i really like the way the chosen undead grabs onto the sword and pulls himself closer to the dragonborn
It was very Berserk. The team understood this assignment
I like how the Chosen Undead and the Dragonborn are actually given reasons to fight each other, instead of just deciding to kill each other over a misunderstanding.
didn't even understand the reason, did it have something to do with the dragonborn siding with the darkness of ds or something?
@@10tailedbijuu I'll be honest... I'm just as confused as you.
@@10tailedbijuu In the death battle, Dragonborn was trying to prevent Chosen Undead from linking the First Flame as they were both listening to different snakes.
@@10tailedbijuu The Dragonborn was sent to defeat the Chosen Undead, because linking the First Flame would "burn the Age of Humans to ashes." The entire reason the gods of Dark Souls want to prevent the Age of Dark is so humans won't be able to challenge their power. The flame isn't actually necessary for the world to live on, it just gives power to the gods while burning away the Dark Souls, the _true_ souls, of humanity.
It makes sense that the Dragonborn, a former prisoner who fought against either an imperialist dictatorship or a fascist terrorist group, would want to end the reign of those gods. From the Dragonborn's perspective, the Chosen Undead is allowing the gods to enslave humanity. From the Undead's perspective, the Last Dragonborn is a Dark Lord trying to prevent their mission to save humanity.
Let the First Flame go unlinked. Let true Dark be cast upon the world. You can't keep the fire burning forever.
That's my interpretation, anyway.
Totally fits the tone of the fight and the characters, good job Liam!
It was nice of the dragon born not use any crafting/potion exploits
Chosen Undead throwing Acid Pots from afar... classic Dark Souls 2 PvP.
What do you mean my magic is supposed to run out?
Is crashing equivalent to death? If that's the case then I think that would benefit the chosen undead
I was more or less thinking of a spiffing Brit using the dragonborn
@@foolicooliyeah if ever dovahkin died i was about to introduce them to the greatest of them all. The dovahkin Reanu Keeves
The Dova-kin didn't even need to use his Dragon Apsect which is basically super saiyan for dragonborn's
The Dragonborn could've just used the Wabbajack over and over an infinite amount of times using Azura's Star, bend will, paralysis, the disarm shout, become ethereal to dodge powerful attacks and many other overpowered things. It wouldn't even be close
Sounds like a fun new playstyle for me 😂
Yea, but unlike you these people have to put on a show, not cater to your weird dork fetish of being a fan of "the strongest" thing.
Vampire Form with telekinesis would be fun
I love that at one point the Chosen Undead took an arrow in the knee. Nice touch.
Yeah, I saw that too. Lol.
It reminded me of the guards
Chosen Undead's moan made it sound like he enjoyed it.
I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee...
Reminds me of an adventurer like myself… who took an arrow to the knee.
That arrow in the knee moment freaking KILLED me. It was played so seriously i didn't even notice for a few seconds
Plus they just had to use that weirdly sensual hit groan from dark souls when he pulled the arrow out lmao
How could I have missed!!!
And the really after by the Ashened One
Chosen Undead: I used to be an RPG protagonist like you, then I took an arrow to the knee!
"I used to be a shoein for Death Battle victory, until I took a arrow to the knee"
This was phenomenal, the voices that instructed the Dragonborn and the Chosen Undead respectively, gave a fascinating view on the whole conflict
I knew Dragonborn would win. Having played both franchises (hundreds of hours each!) and reading into the lores and powers of their verses, Elder Scrolls is just pure insanity in comparison to Dark Souls, especially with the Dragonborn. Miraak and Alduin feats, and his hax is crazy, on top of being way stronger.
Omg I love how they kept the chosen undead's damage sounds. Dude always sounded like he loved the pain.
Auhhhh😩
I never played Dark Souls but the fact that canonically it is people that go insane after dying again and again is wild
Its a gem of a game. Highly recommend it. May make u rage at times, but the lore is fasinating.
Its not for everyone. The game is incredibly difficult if you haven't played something similar and theres a lot of "backtracking" because some respawn points are quite far away.
Is a 10/10 masterpiece u should try it
@@sleepymike9672 from what wiz and boom said it’s just an edgy “it’s not about the destination it’s about the journey”
@@wiichii2620 never played it, i should give it a try....when its on sale (kinda poor here)
"I used to be an adventure like you ,then i took an arrow to the knee."
🪷🪷🪷 LOTUS 🪷🪷🪷
I love your videos death battle, your animations are so beautiful and amazing!
You sneaky sunuvaguns
Chat is that
finish the quote fraudrolu
no way
I love how the Chosen Undead's power is reloading a save and his weakness is just the player giving up
I think it's funny how Frisk from Undertale technically has the exact same ability.
@@megarayquaza2240frisk vs Chosen Undead when?
@@megarayquaza2240 Big whoop it's the same power Conker has too, they aren't that special lol
@@megarayquaza2240and in both games, dodging is an essential tactic. And Frisk can choose between saving the world or letting it fade into darkness... wait a second!
Its not reloading a save, its literally respawning lol.
The level of detail in this battle is just amazing
Nice
Good
👍
👍
👍👍
I just rewatched this episode, and noticed the arrow in the knee reference. Looks like the chosen undead isn't going to be adventuring anymore. Time for guard duty.
honestly missed opportunity to not have the dragonborn use the bloodskaal blade when the chosen undead used the moonlight greatsword
Also love how in Canon, The Dova can actually spam Shouts with pretty much zero cooldown unlike in the game. Its literally in there to give the game just a little bit of challenge
so what you're saying is that, In the lore, The Dova can just scream at you to death?
@@silvergiovanni5336 they canonically have no distiction between debating and fighting, so yes. They can talk you to death.
@@edwardhaybell1938
So basically they would make a great politician who would never lose a debate?
That checks out. I heard from an npc that some guy, I think it was Ulfric Stormcloak, shouted a guy to pieces.
So the moment he screamed that line, it was ggs?
All Dovakiin really had to do was use the infinite fortify restoration glitch to make a 900000000 damage dagger.
The spiffing Brit would be proud!
Yeah, as soon as they said they were maximizing both characters I was like, Fortify Restoration Loop!
yes, plus infinite stamina, health and magicka.
Or just use marked for death
i assume they avoided glitches positive or negative since their obviously non-canon...otherwise dragonborn could use console commands to win
They even nerfed the dragonborn too, they left out his most powerful weapon... The fork of infinate damage.
Can we talk about how hard this music went?!? Great stuff.
Chosen Undead getting stabbed and pulling the goddamn sword into himself to strangle DB to death is the epitome of a DS players determination
absolutely, if there is one thing DS players are known for, its being stubborn... sorry, determined and unrelenting. especially considering people did naked runs of the game too and won
The DB would just shout the CU to pieces seeing as the pot would have no effect on the thu'um as it isn't magic based.
And seeing the fire is where the CU comes from the DB would just blow it out with his Thu'um.
Comment spoiled the result before the media player even loaded up. Yay.
*Edit* I see the comment didn't depict the scene entirely accurately.
@@valor1omega Not how the First Flame works. You can't just kick dirt on it and the Age of Fire ends. If you could, it'd end thousands of times over just from simple mistakes. The First Flame is more akin to Akatosh or Aetherius, in that it's more a force of nature than a physical object. You CAN snuff the First Flame if you're attuned to it like the Chosen Undead or a Firekeeper, but that doesn't actually stop anything, and the Flame of Disparity still exists.
Also Vow of Silence doesn't just stop magic. It stops speech, since speech is intertwined with magic in Dark Souls.
@@valor1omegait also silences your voice as well, you forgot about that part. So he wouldn’t have really.
Our hero claims a warrior heart beware beware the Dragonborn comes
Chosen undead enters the RED fog and the dragonborn comes plays😮
Yes dark mello winner🏆skyrim i like it ❤❤❤
With a voice wielding power of the ancient Nord arts
Beware, beware the Dragonborn comes.
Yes tony stank win🏆death battle! Skyrim this winner🏆the dragonborn legends war 😡👊🗡🛡🏹🔥💥amazing👌❤❤
@@Winrarnt isn't it arts, not tonque?
The Chosen Undead also has a stamina bar that drops when doing anything, including blocking.
but so does the dragonborn, for things like blocking power attacks and such.
@@demonpride1975but the Dragonborn doesn’t need stamina to attack, just to power attack, while the CU needs it for literally everything except magic
@@Steven-lz1vo yes i am aware of that.
@@Steven-lz1vo Dragonborn also gets auto-staggered when you hit a shield with no stamina or try to block with no stamina.
@@Zer0LifeNegi The Dragonborn can also gain several hundred years worth of unlimited stamina from drinking a lot of soup
Sif appears on screen right as he says "this is the biggest bummer of them all"
The ending of this battle reminds me of an old quote: "There are many ways to kill someone. Flesh that burns. Bones that break. But to break a man's spirit is to truly destroy them!"
Hello God of War Ares
*looks at Dark Souls lore as stated at the end* Quite true. Gotta say it would have been a different kind of "burnout" defeat than what's been shown in previous episodes.
"Now, you will be truly tested!"
Knowing the souls community, they'd probably keep going until the Dragonborn doesn't want to live anymore xD
Using a variety of meme setups, learning about every frame of every ability and move the Dragonborn has, until he dies.
Honestly, take the results with a grain of salt. The chosen undead only hollows if they lose their purpose.
It's an open ended fight, but i understand why they made The Dragonborn win. The Dragonborn is way stronger, and the only thing The Chosen undead has is basically immortality.
@@GoatOfWar Suprisingly, if you look at the lore for the Chosen Undead(ds1) he does actually eventually go Hollow. The other two on the other hand, the Monarch from ds2 and Ashen One from ds3, it would be a different story. Despite what others have said, even if we make the Dragonborn an elf, vampire, alchemy, have them extend their life with shouts, and have the help in longevity from the Daedric Princes, the Monarch would eventually win but only because the Dragonborn dies of Natural Causes, because at the end of the game(with the DLCs) the Monarch doesn't ever Hollow(the Flame will still burn their soul to ashe eventually though I guess). The Ashen One however, effectively has a fighting chance not just because of what you mentioned before, but feat-wise they can stand toe to toe with the Dovakin(enough where its hard to say who wins). The Ashen one not just fought and defeated 3 other Lords of Cinder(what the Chosen Undead and the Monarch become after linking the Flame) and one "pair" who was planned to become one themselves(the twin princes), but the very Soul of Cinder itself(which is effectively the accumulation of experience and abilities of every Lord of Cinder ever throughout all of time). Not only that, but the Ashen One also beat the Slave Knight Gael, which basically is analogous to the Soul of Cinder, but for all Undead(due to having consumed every Dark Soul, except for the Ashen One's). If we chose the Lord of Hollows ending for ds3, its even worse because not only do you have the things I mentioned before, but now the Flame lies within the Ashen One and they aren't bound to the Kiln of the First Flame.
For those confused about the Elder Scrolls sun, lemme simplify it: The night sky isnt exactly space, but a giant barrier that separates Mundus and Oblivion (The solar system and the rest of space respectively) from Aetherius, the source of magic. Each of those stars arent big balls of plasma, but instead holes to Aetherius, with Magnus, the sun, being the BIGGEST hole!
Woah thats awesome!
Man how do you,even get the information on this stuff? In gameplay?
@@LizardMane in game books.
Funny how some game devs do this in creating a stage where they make a black sphere and put holes on them to create an illusion that makes it look like stars inside that sphere or something like that lol
@@LizardMane all thanks to both Michael Kirkbride and Todd Howard, who, when creating Morrowind, wanted to prove to Zenimax that he's the "man".
great battle and I hope many more come to know and love brandon and his work
It's all fun and games until the dragonborn whips out console command by achieving Chim.
It's all fun and games until the dragonborn pulls put Whirlwind Spring + Netch Jelly
(Seriously do this, it's really funny)
Some people suggest the Dragon Born could die of old age
But he could also be a Vampire or even a Vampire Lord meaning that time is not a issue on top of giving him all the powers
Lore wise age wouldn't even be a issue.
Yeah, but the chosen undead could've cursed Dragonborn and he will die in an instant.
@@LorDNurS I think that wouldn't even work, especially with the amount of beings that have a claim on his soul(while also protecting him to boot)
Sun spears...
@@LorDNurS don't forget that the dragonborn could curse the chosen undead right back. Marked for death is a shout that works like the curse of the basilisk. permanently lowering the health and armor rating of those getting hit by it, and it can stack.
Imagine if the dragonborn uses clear skies and actually brings out the Sun.
OMG so simple, he could literally sit down, shout and just win the match by default lol
Solaire: I NEED TO PRAISE THE SUN MORE.
They might be fighting at night
Except there is no son. It was on an illusion created by Guinevere.
@@88cryingwolf Your assuming they are fighting in the Dark Souls universe. If they are fighting on Tamriel or on some random plane of existence there could easily be a sun
My favorite thing about the "Chosen Undead" is that it doesn't refer to one being.
The 'Chosen' undead are *all* Undead. All undead, aka all Humans, are Chosen.
Even if this one dies, there will be another.
I havent watched one of your videos in like ten years. There was a suggested video in my feed for Deadliest Warrior and it reminded me of Death Battle so I had to see if it was still a thing. Kudos! Its crazy to see how awesome the battle animations have gotten
This fight boiled down to the main fantasies behind each game. Dark Souls is about always being the underdog, memorizing patterns and getting better with every death till you win. Skyrim is a classic power fantasy, leveling and grinding for better stats and gear until you bend the game to your will.
Bending the game at *_minimum_*
You can litteraly become One Punch Man if you try hard enough.
Dark souls you can grind levels and become op clearly you never played
Skyrim is a boring game that only basement dwellers play to feel like they aren't worthless to society.
Basically the same thing as isekai anime fans.
@@captainsmuggo2364 don't insult isekai like that let me have my guilty pleasure
@@captainsmuggo2364
Oh someone sounds like a sore loser.
Face it, CU is weak in comparison to the DB.
The Dragonborn has the ability to summon two different dragons and other spirits and Elementals basically it is a walking boss of Dark Souls
One of the dragons can even be repeatedly resummoned, since it's soul is bound to a different pocket realm with different masters
If you read the item descriptions in DarkSouls, and the spells they can cast in game youll understand why the Dragonborn gets obliterated.
@mikecarol6108 then why did he win?. I mean I played and Beat both games and did massive deep lore dives. There is no support for you to claim that The chosen one should be the winner
@@austinspallinger2207 Get em Austin!!!! They weren’t ready! 😂😂😂
@@mikecarol6108 yes you are right but there other stuff in the Elder Scrolls to like marons razor 1 hit kill anything on 10% of hits as well not to mention all the armors and stuff but it also depends on which player is a no life
OH MY GOOOD THE MOONLIGHT GREATSWORD VS THE DAWNBREAKER😤, I was so hyped when I saw some daedric artifacts
Massively impressed with your deep understanding of Souls culture and lore, and I've yet to even get to the end of the video yet ! 🛡
This is one of those fights that literally just... cannot end, and because of that the mental images one conjures are hilarious. Just imagine, Several Decades Later, and they're still fighting, except now it's devolved more into them trying Wile E Coyote style traps on each other. Like, the fight has just been completely forgotten more or less, and it's now just an eternal two-man slapstick comedy routine.
Well, the Dragonborn would eventually die of natural causes in that scenario.
@@warriorwatch2406 A maxed restoration dragon born would live and extremely long time though
Siegmeyer literally ends after his questline, right after his daughter kills him and he goes hallow. (Literally the only sad part of Dark Souls 1.) Also the Hallow that falls from the ceiling at the start with the key in it's pocket.
extremely long is not infinite.
@@FluttershyIsAGoddess I mean Sif is not exactly a feel good moment lol
"WHY WON'T YOU DIE"
"Campfire son with it I can just respawn"
that student loans line had me reeling 🤣😭
Chosen Undead is bringing down a big axe right on the Dragonborn’s head, but just before it lands the Dragonborn hits the pause menu and proceeds to eat 80 wheels of cheese (also yes this is a russianbadger joke)
and a potion to fortify heaver armor and light armor skill by 1490374188346113846 points.
I would've been stacking Argonians by now. 😉
Ik your joking but for sake of comparison im there litterly, like is it skyrim really fair at all let alone against DS they have chaos but its measurable more then infinite and magic time pause XD
Russian badger?
@@DaveMiller6042 a youtuber who does a lot of stupid things on Halo and other games
Bruh, I’m not seeing enough people talking about how HARD the music went. Masterpiece.
The soundtrack is uploaded on Brandon's channel so thats where people are giving their praising for it ♡
It was beautiful and fiting
Yea this music was sick
both versions of it are s tier songs
Well I was thinking the opposite. It felt weird and not very powerful for a fight.
I'm glad the Last Dragonborn won, even without the use of Dragon Break nonsense.
"I hit the universe so hard that an event both did and did not happen. No, this does not create a separate universe. I am above your pathetic attempts at logic"
I don't remember a dragon break during/after the events of skyrim? Where's that in the lore?
How have I been missing DeathBattles like THIS and Killua vs. Misaka from 3 months ago? Man, they drop these fast! 😂
A fight between them with the Moonlight Greatsword and The Bloodskal Blade would have been sick to see
Was so hoping for that.
I thought that when they featured the ML Greatsword that the Bloodskal blade would be used in a dual with it too
I cry myself to sleep at the mere notion of being denied such a splendid spectacle.
Or the fork
Two ranged melee weapons would have been cool but the moonlight greatsword might just break the sword and you cant really put the dragonborn vs the undead and not give him the dawnbreaker
I feel like not enough people are talking about how metal this score was
I listen to it all the time.
Definitely my favorite score all season.
I don't know if I'd call it metal as much as just plain epic.
Battle comments aside.
The fact that Wiz canonically doesn't have a soul because it's owed to college debtors is hilarious!
Bro should have started with the dragon aspect shout. Major attack and defense buff plus shortens shout recharge time.
The recharge time for Shouts is really just a game mechanic.
@@TheFirstDragonbornMiraak It could be more than that. Even for the Dovakiin, a Thu'um could be taxing. That could be what the timer represents
@@Wakaplayer12 Just a game mechanic. Going by lore, a cooldown for shouts doesn't exist.
You know it’s about to get good when both are basically the player
As someone who has played both games multiple times, I know my dragonborn would beat my chosen undead, the big difference is, I imagine deathbattle will let the chosen undead return to battle multiple times, so can dragonborn actually win?
@@shiningmissingno.8788 bruh my chosen undead would Woop my dragon born if i am playing both
Game Universe, your playing your dragon born wrong! You gotta look up a extensive guide and waste 8-10 hours of your life to get your ultimate PC with Impeccable stats if I say so! I'm not joking, I used every exploit known to man to upgrade my dragon born to ultimate power 2 or 3 times. Back to my point, your playing Skyrim wrong
(Just kidding, sorry if I'm ranting)
Me vs me 😂
@@shiningmissingno.8788 Soul Trap or that Dragon Shout that steals souls from your opponents might be able to counter the Chosen Undead's infinite respawn.
Love how mid fight just started to roll repeatedly and was literally untouchable
I said, out loud, “Ice Form!”
I love that the ending to the fight is just the chosen undead rage quitting.
My headcannon is that this duel went for days.
I love that reference when the Chosen Undead gets shot in the knee by an arrow. "I was an adventurer til I took an arrow to the knee."
I love that they had him moan and the dragonborne was just:😮
@@MeticulousMitchh rofl yeah that made it even funnier
even though that's more of a norse saying of getting married. instead of "ball and chain" it was "arrow to the knee"
thats all this fight was, was some choppy animation, barely referencing anything BUT Memes and bad calculations and feats.
@@kyero8724 Cry ab it
I like how in the lore the Dragonborn is pretty much a demi-god, but must you shout once ingame you'll have to wait for approximately a few hundred years before being able to shout again.
U don’t got a necklace that reduced shout 40%
@@EXiiEe or the glitch where you wear multiple of the necklace so you can shout without any cooldowns.
Or just using the base form of the shout so you don't have to do the whole thing
Yeah this always annoyed me, and seeing as I don't abuse my own game... shoutrecoverymult 0
As a pc player, I just modded infinite shouts into my game. Problem solved.
inaccurate Dragonborn didnt shove 50 million potions down his throat at any given moment
Lore is a stomp, but gameplay would be even more of a stomp💀
I just want to draw attention to the Chosen Undead using the vow of silence at the end of the battle, because it might be the most "oh shunt, they might actually win this" moment in all of death battle. Dark souls is (and was portrayed in the analysis as) a much more melee centric game than Skyrim. And we can see this in the animation: every, and I mean EVERY single melee interaction leading up to that moment has gone in CU's favor. And every time the Dragonborn has taken the advantage and killed the CU, it was with magic. Meaning that the only thing tripping up the CU (at least as far as the animation was concerned) was the Dragonborn's magic... Which the CU hard countered at the end, forcing a melee clash that the CU had been constantly winning in. Such an awesome moment.
I enjoyed that so much that I had two best moments. The nod to Ludvig with the close up moonlight greatsword shot and the moment when you realise he's going for a Hail Mary linking of the flame.
I really wanted CU to win this one, despite loving both franchises but from that point I didn't care who won, that was the best ending of any DB I've seen!
He would win it jsut these dickeads though if someone crush your neck you cna clearly dhout and say the words proerly riight :,D
I think the issue with that though is what they mentioned in the analysis portion: CU's magic is limited. If CU couldn't finish the fight within the time frame of the Vow of Silence cast(s) then eventually DB would win that "round" and the CU would respawn to try again with a different tactic. Which boils down to the reason DB won in the animation: Time & Power. Would the CU be able to come up with a way to finally beat DB's insanely OP arsenal and skills? Or would CU go hollow from realizing it was all pointless and he was just delaying the inevitable with stop gap solutions to buy time?
@@Gatescholar The reason DB won was that CU underestimated DB, they thought (quite rightly) that linking the flame was game over. They weren't aware of CHIM.
Honestly, that's my only gripe about the fight, the end wasn't really accurate. I think they should have shown DB actually struggle to contain the first flame, and use any other shout that Fus-Ro-Da. It is a multiversal big bang after all.
Except the CU immediately lost that silenced melee encounter with TLD.
If only there was a healing scene where the dragonborn would look through his inventory for food and potions while chosen undead spams the estus
Hahaha I was actually hoping for that to happen too! But the fight was great nonetheless
the pause menu pops up and the dragonborn eats 100 cheese wheels.
me too, the dragonborn knows a lot of healing spells, maybe he didn't use it because his mana is limited while the Chosen Undead has unlimited resources.
There is no pause in Darksouls so he will get backstabbed
@@lordjaraxxus5418 And suddenly gets twice as fast due to less encumbrance
This is by far my favorite episode 🙌🏼
I’m a horrific nerd for noticing this but did anyone else notice he used the clear skies shout to summon the storm at 17:30?
He didn', he used Storm call, "Strun Bah Qo", it just sounds very similar to the clear skies spell because of the similar sounding ending syllable " Lok vah Koor"
Going into this, not knowing who wins, is pretty cool. If you look at it, it's basically a showdown between:
-A character who kills gods and is stated time and time again to be immortal.(Chosen Undead)
-A character that with little time, effort and game mechanic abuse can be totally OP and broken.(Dragonborn)
Dragonborn wins by shooting the chosen undead, hiding behind a wall until the chosen undead gives up looking, and shooting him again, repeating until the chosen undead runs out of estus and dies
@@hellpwnage6665 dragonborn wins by using console commands
All wrong. Dragonborn wins by creative use of restoration potions and alchemy enchantments
@@0023Matthew Dragonborn can probably defeat the biblical God if he did that
Alchemy, enchanting, blacksmithing. The circle of death
I loved the arrow to the knee reference being incorporated in this fight
Indeed, I noticed that
I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an arrow to the knee
Okay but the animation in this is AMAZING
The CU sees and picks up the Moonlight GS exactly like Ludwig does in Bloodborne, I love that little detail
Dang this just makes me want to see a full on cinematic of a fully powered dragonborn vs alduin
Its always going to be the Dragonborn if he’s full powered
@Zombie Gangster he had to use dragonrend to even hurt him though, so not exactly fair, it's like going to fight superman with kryptonite
@@jamesmcdonald1108 not really bcus if you manage to run into Alduin in the overworld you can actually "kill him" ahead of time. I got close to doing it when he got glitched into a mountain keeping him in place but eventually he got unglitched and flew away. Dragonrend on the other hand just forces him to be grounded for a period of time and doesn't do any damage
The fact that Dark Souls games don't let you unlock a Dragonborn character after defeating the game at least once is criminal. The Souls games would be so much more fun if you had various characters from other games
would have been far less underwhelming than what we got I'm sure.