Why Aren’t Parents Disciplining Their Kids Anymore? - Jonathan Haidt
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2024
- Chris and Jonathan Haidt discuss why parents are raising weak children. What does Jonathan Haidt recommend parents do to not raise weak children? What should children be doing more of according to Jonathan Haidt?
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Hello you savages. Watch the full episode with Jonathan here -
As a stay-at-home mom of 8- and 6-year old boys, I can tell you that disciplining children requires A LOT of time. There are days when I spend close to half our waking hours disciplining and correcting. This is part of the sacrifice required to raise flourishing humans, and why it is important to have a parent at home.
"Don't let your children do things that will make you dislike them."
Even back in the 70’s…..friends of my husband came over for dinner with their child….about 3-4, who in the course of events thought it was great fun to slam our front door …over and over and over………since the parents totally ignored the situation….eventually I went and held the door so he couldn’t slam it and said “No”. Didn’t touch him. Didn’t raise my voice even. Just said “No”. He had a complete meltdown. The mother took him out to their car because he was screaming. She was furious at me…..and the husband went along. They left and we never saw them again. My husband (who became my ex) was pissed at me and thought I was out of line. I still don’t think I did a thing wrong. I sometimes wonder how that child turned out.
Children are lacking independent play time outdoors. This has led to children growing up anxious, unsocial, and frustrated.
My mother in law gave some great advice on discipline.
Divorce compounds the problem. The parents compete to please the child and assuage their guilt. They opt out of conflict with the child out of fear to losing them to the other parent.
My high school latin teacher made us repeat this: "Life isn't fair, nobody owes you anything."
My grandma, who was the single best person I have ever met, was an orphan by the age of 8… she had 10 siblings , she was one of the youngest. The older siblings just took care of the younger ones, there was no foster care or foster parents. She left school at 8 and worked in cotton mills… met my grandad at 16 married, stayed together for life. Grandad was in the army, then a mechanic with his own business. They lost a couple of children young, then had my uncle and mother: my mum and dad divorced and my grandma helped to raise me from when I was 12 weeks old. I never heard that woman talk about trauma, or how hard her life had been. She didn’t sit and dwell in her feelings…. I never even heard her complain. She had every reason to, she had a very real difficult childhood…. But she just got on with things. People today have no idea they’re born!
I have a niece who thinks that no discipline is the way to go. She has a 5 year old daughter, and she is the most insufferable child to be around. Nobody likes her, my grandkids cannot stand her. I actually feel sorry for her, her parents are abusing her and I am sure it will have very bad outcomes in the years to come.
I love Jonathan’s point about learning to accept injustice. I’ve noticed the practice of buying a kid presents on their siblings’ birthday getting more and more common. Because it’s ‘fair’. By contrast when I was a kid, sometimes my sister would get something and I wouldn’t, and vice versa. And we learned the lesson that sometimes other people get things that you don’t and that’s life, there doesn’t have to be a reason. So much of the modern silliness can be traced back, to some extent, to never learning that lesson.
I'd just like to add a different perspective, my grandma called cps on my mom for her disciplining me. So now, as a parent, when my toddler throws a tantrum In public, I take her into the bathroom, car or go home, and punish her privately. So to others, I might not look like I'm doing anything, but I actually am, but I don't want to lose my kid because Karen called cps on me. 🤷♀️ that's something I'm very scared of because we get judged when we don't punish kids, but then when we do, everyone has an opinion and a phone and end up judging you for how you punish ( correct) your child.
I'm an older man and I would add that it wasn't just my parents who disciplined me. It was a responsibility that nearly all adults accepted. The lesson "respect your elders" was not just some warm and fuzzy suggestion but it had actual teeth. If I misbehaved near any adult then they would tell my parents or scold me themselves. This has been beaten out of our culture by well intentioned idiots. These are the same people who claim that "it takes a village" to raise a good citizen. Also, parents themselves were expected to discipline their children in public. If little Billy was holding the door closed so people couldn't go in the store then dad had better handle it or someone would scold HIM! In general I think we would do ourselves a favor by not casually chucking out generations of tradition without careful consideration of how it would affect us.
It’s all so crazy. When I pulled my kids to homeschool them, we entered that community in our area and it was like going back in time in the best way. There are still families who remember how to raise kids. ♥️
I would like to add that inconsistent parenting is equally harmful as permissive/soft parenting. When you have one parent who berates and screams at you for talking back, and the other who allows you to get away with doing nothing and everything, you end up going absolutely insane, because your mind is fighting against itself over what the "correct" mode of operating is ALMOST ALL the time!
I'm old, and I grew up in Africa. It was highly unusual for a child to grow up without a broken bone, or sprain, or dislication, or chipped teeth, as we spent our time climbing trees, swimming, trampolining, having adventures in the bush swimming in rivers ... When a kid got the mumps in the village, my Mom washed our faces, put our shoes on, and took us to visit. The philosophy was that childhood diseases toughened your immune system... 'What does not kill fattens'! Very serious incidents such as a bite from a venemous snake or hospitalization from illness were infrequent. Although we were taught in early school years how to identify water likely to be infested with bilharzia and other skills like that, we never did learn why tortoises managed to run away and never be found when we only took our eyes off them for a moment!
Good friends of mine have a child who they claim has ADHD, like it’s a blanket excuse for his behaviour; I can’t help but notice that they NEVER follow through on threats of punishment. When my son is disciplined, he knows it.
As a father of 2, my wife & her family (mother & grandmother) are ALWAYS trying to undermine, challenge & oppose my authority over my children. The kids will talk back to them, scream no & speak really aggressive to them, then when I come with a stern voice telling them to stop, they do it immediately with no hesitation. But then I always gotta hear about how I’m being mean or they’re using excuses like my son being on the spectrum (as if autistic people can’t comprehend discipline). I’d think they’d be appreciative that I can get the kids to behave when they can’t.
I brought up 3 kids. All adults now. Discipline isn't punishment or harsh treatment. It's just enforcing fairness and decency in a consistent fashion. Kids completely understand this.
Man, what a difficult conversion. We know that human strength is built upon resilience training. However human efforts are directed towards creating comfort for ourselves and others. This creates the conundrum society is facing right now.