A lot of the stigma around Goku's characterization of being a hero in the anime comes from that 90s/2000s localization changes funimation made, if you see what the characters say in the sub against the dub it's often times totally different, they took a lot of liberty with it. He's closer to the manga type in the sub
Yeah even Toriyama said the old films had Goku as more of a Superman type hero than he is in the manga/anime where the "poison creeps out" sometimes. That's why Super is jarring for more than just Goku seeming dumber than ever before. It's a far cry from save the earth Goku when he puts multiple universes at risk of erasure because "fuck it he wanna run them hands against anyone and everyone." I like the balance of being down to scrap anytime, but also understanding the consequences of those actions
@@richborn6700 I like to think that Goku isn't being stupid, but not necessarily heroic he just wouldn't want his friends/family/planet getting destroyed cause uh he kinda lives there like any normal person would. Holds true sometimes, other times he's being too dumb to realize but yeah
@@richborn6700 See my issue is that this even in the manga was almost never how Goku was written him letting Vegeta life is liket he only example of this in the entire original run of the manga. Tienshinhan had a change of heart by the end of the tournament already Piccolo got to life so God wouldn't die and the Dragonballs could continue to exist. Goku gave Freezer a change to life on the condition that he stops his evil and never meets him again. The moment Freezer brock this condition did he go for the kill He was the only one that had moral reason for not going to Gero early as he didn't feel its right to punish someone for Crimes that they haven't commit yet And with Cell Did he explicitly want Gohan to kill him quick. Never mind that he forfit the right with Cell as he never planned on letting it end and only wanted to prepare Gohan. And finally with Boo had him give up his own change to have a fun fight to the end with Boo to give the next generation the torch And those are just some of the bigger examples. If there ever was any worth mentioning doses of this poison was it ether isolated to Vegeta or removed by the Editor against Toriyama's wishes.
I wouldn’t say he was ONLY about hands in the manga. Most of his fights were actually about saving others. Manga goku is a good mix of being a hero, while selfishly wanting to fight a better opponent. Like he literally fought Frieza to avenge namekians and save his friends, he fought nappa and vegeta to avenge his friends and save the earth. Yes goku loves those fights, I mean he left vegeta alive to literally get a better fight later. But he fought vegeta with the soul purpose of saving everyone from him. Hell one of the most major moments in OG dragon ball was krillin dying and goku rushing in to avenge him only to lose and almost die. Again he loves to fight, but let’s not act that he isn’t heroic at all
You lost me at Goku calling himself an Earthling instead of a Saiyan is anime only. It happens in the manga too and it's very important for his character development.
For me it was some bits he talks about Super lol. Goku doesnt win against beerus, against hit, against black (Zeno does). And against Jiren he has help of 17 and frieza. And in the manga after top he doesnt win against Gas.
I think he was a hero tho Toriyama clearly failed to create his vision properly In the fight against nappa and Vegeta he didn’t fight coz he liked it he named all his friends who nappa killed against him and against Vegeta fighting him wasn’t top priority it was saving the earth sure he saved Vegeta bcoz he wanted a rival In namek he saved the peanut gallery’s asses against ginyu force In the cell saga he did not fight cell to see who wins but to test if Gohan could beat him and he trained Gohan to be stronger than him Boo saga was when toriyamas writing deteriorated
Yeah, does of us who were more into the manga than anime, have a totally different view of Dragon Ball... First time I truly realized was when I failed a super-easy (and boring) DB Quiz because the anime had Vegeta achieving Super Saiyan while crying like a baby while punching rocks in space, rather than while training like a real man on Earth. And that's the tip of the iceberg, cause the anime took things differently for almost everything... Anime Vegeta (just to circle back for a moment) is a goddam B*TCH! gets even humiliated by Gohan, when they got back to Earth from Namek, despite the fact that Gohan is waaaay weaker than him, in the manga, and also performs so much better, against Original Form Freeza than Vegeta (in the anime Gohan fights Freeza one on one after Super Saiyan Goku is sent flying into the boiling ocean); Another stupid change (out of the many) is when he comes back for a day to fight Buu, as soon as Goku tells him to fuse, he just says "F*ck you" and attacks Buu, even though he is greatly unmatched and he knows it, while in the manga he accepts almost immediately. And don't get me started on the first fight Goku had against Vegeta, that fight had me stressed on the internet cause Goku was so damn outmatched, even before Vegeta transforms, but the anime made them closer in power just so they could stretch the fight, like having Goku running and jumping around in Kaioken, to escape Vegeta Ozaru, when in reality he was decrepit because he overcommitted with the Kaioken. But even details like Gohan vs Dabra... was he Super Saiyan 2? Was he 1? Of course it was SS1, there was no doubt in the manga, and the fight was also, clearly, one sided and in favour of Dabra, but the anime did things it's own way and got everyone confused.
I agree that Goku was about hands, but he very specifically tried to save Gohan the first few major fights of the "Z" portion. Raditz is a given, but he wishes Gohan to be okay by name when heading toward the Saiyans as well as both times he had a "Super Hero" landing on Namek.
I wouldn't say dragonball is simple, that being said simple doesnt mean bad and complex doesn't mean good, you can succeed at making a simple show and fail at making a complex show, and if dragonball is simple then it succeeded (for the freeza saga anyway 💀)
It's not really his idea in the first place, it's supposed to be TOEI's original db work. But Toriyama got involved and he enjoyed designing the characters for this one, even helping them out on how it the story should go. No matter how bad or good it is, I think I'll enjoy watching it just like how he enjoyed being involved with this project
I owned every manga as a kid and you couldn’t be anymore correct. Manga Goku was elite, he cared about saving Earth because he considered it his home and had a family. Other than that he just wanted to be as strong as possible. All the other heroic shit from the anime was filler and unnecessary. I feel people would look at Goku differently, more of an antihero than an actual hero if the anime version was accurate.
Yeah Goku in the sub is more or less how Goku is in the manga, hell the dialogue in the dub for Dragon Ball Z Kai from 2012 to 2017 is way more close to the manga compared to the original English dub from the late 90s/early 2000s which changed Goku's characterization to being more like a hero (So blame the localization at Funimation for giving Goku the "I'm the savior of the universe" shit)
You should try watching the anime in japanese or, if you really want to watch it dubbed, watch Dragon Ball Z Kai. You'll have a much more canonical experience than the Funimation dub.
Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism. Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future. Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote. "Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
So toriyama just wanted to make an unlikeable protagonist then. Now I can see why some people prefer the funimation dub goku cause this one’s a POS lmao
@@Lowclasswarrior778fr. The way this dude is talking about goku makes it sound like he was supposed to be the other side of the coin to general tao or some shit.
I think you got mixed up between the anime and the English dub version of the anime Because where are this "heroic speeches" the anime gave to goku ? There is only one that comes to my mind ,its when uses the kioken against freeza where they changed the whole scene from the manga
Toriyama said that if too many people would tell him that they "just knew Goku would win!" he'd have him lose. Really explains his record.
That explains a lot
A lot of the stigma around Goku's characterization of being a hero in the anime comes from that 90s/2000s localization changes funimation made, if you see what the characters say in the sub against the dub it's often times totally different, they took a lot of liberty with it. He's closer to the manga type in the sub
I think he didn't know that before making this vidéo
Dub dragon ball is a totally different show from the sub
True true, goku doesn't really refer to himself as a hero either. He just likes to fight n protect the lil guy
Yeah even Toriyama said the old films had Goku as more of a Superman type hero than he is in the manga/anime where the "poison creeps out" sometimes. That's why Super is jarring for more than just Goku seeming dumber than ever before. It's a far cry from save the earth Goku when he puts multiple universes at risk of erasure because "fuck it he wanna run them hands against anyone and everyone." I like the balance of being down to scrap anytime, but also understanding the consequences of those actions
@@richborn6700 I like to think that Goku isn't being stupid, but not necessarily heroic
he just wouldn't want his friends/family/planet getting destroyed cause uh he kinda lives there like any normal person would. Holds true sometimes, other times he's being too dumb to realize but yeah
@@richborn6700 See my issue is that this even in the manga was almost never how Goku was written him letting Vegeta life is liket he only example of this in the entire original run of the manga.
Tienshinhan had a change of heart by the end of the tournament already
Piccolo got to life so God wouldn't die and the Dragonballs could continue to exist.
Goku gave Freezer a change to life on the condition that he stops his evil and never meets him again. The moment Freezer brock this condition did he go for the kill
He was the only one that had moral reason for not going to Gero early as he didn't feel its right to punish someone for Crimes that they haven't commit yet
And with Cell Did he explicitly want Gohan to kill him quick. Never mind that he forfit the right with Cell as he never planned on letting it end and only wanted to prepare Gohan.
And finally with Boo had him give up his own change to have a fun fight to the end with Boo to give the next generation the torch
And those are just some of the bigger examples.
If there ever was any worth mentioning doses of this poison was it ether isolated to Vegeta or removed by the Editor against Toriyama's wishes.
I wouldn’t say he was ONLY about hands in the manga. Most of his fights were actually about saving others. Manga goku is a good mix of being a hero, while selfishly wanting to fight a better opponent. Like he literally fought Frieza to avenge namekians and save his friends, he fought nappa and vegeta to avenge his friends and save the earth. Yes goku loves those fights, I mean he left vegeta alive to literally get a better fight later. But he fought vegeta with the soul purpose of saving everyone from him. Hell one of the most major moments in OG dragon ball was krillin dying and goku rushing in to avenge him only to lose and almost die. Again he loves to fight, but let’s not act that he isn’t heroic at all
Goku’s step stool is wild😂😂
Say it ain’t so😭
Gokus sloppy seconds
You lost me at Goku calling himself an Earthling instead of a Saiyan is anime only. It happens in the manga too and it's very important for his character development.
Ya u right and Holy Spirit of the Living Jesus Loves u . u aka yeshis
For me it was some bits he talks about Super lol. Goku doesnt win against beerus, against hit, against black (Zeno does). And against Jiren he has help of 17 and frieza.
And in the manga after top he doesnt win against Gas.
the super saiyan 3 one was goku was wasting time to trunks get the dragon radar
Are you talking about super saiyan 3 vs super buu? Or when goku first showed off the transformation?
@@TheeBreadShow nah when goku showed it
I prefer Superman Goku in the Og Funimation Dub
I think he was a hero tho
Toriyama clearly failed to create his vision properly
In the fight against nappa and Vegeta he didn’t fight coz he liked it he named all his friends who nappa killed against him and against Vegeta fighting him wasn’t top priority it was saving the earth sure he saved Vegeta bcoz he wanted a rival
In namek he saved the peanut gallery’s asses against ginyu force
In the cell saga he did not fight cell to see who wins but to test if Gohan could beat him and he trained Gohan to be stronger than him
Boo saga was when toriyamas writing deteriorated
this guy claims that he isnt in the manga, which i havent read so i cant say
@@zacbrown3797 he clearly is you should read it but if u don’t wanna buy it mangadex or mangafire is here to help pirate it
Yeah, does of us who were more into the manga than anime, have a totally different view of Dragon Ball... First time I truly realized was when I failed a super-easy (and boring) DB Quiz because the anime had Vegeta achieving Super Saiyan while crying like a baby while punching rocks in space, rather than while training like a real man on Earth.
And that's the tip of the iceberg, cause the anime took things differently for almost everything... Anime Vegeta (just to circle back for a moment) is a goddam B*TCH! gets even humiliated by Gohan, when they got back to Earth from Namek, despite the fact that Gohan is waaaay weaker than him, in the manga, and also performs so much better, against Original Form Freeza than Vegeta (in the anime Gohan fights Freeza one on one after Super Saiyan Goku is sent flying into the boiling ocean);
Another stupid change (out of the many) is when he comes back for a day to fight Buu, as soon as Goku tells him to fuse, he just says "F*ck you" and attacks Buu, even though he is greatly unmatched and he knows it, while in the manga he accepts almost immediately.
And don't get me started on the first fight Goku had against Vegeta, that fight had me stressed on the internet cause Goku was so damn outmatched, even before Vegeta transforms, but the anime made them closer in power just so they could stretch the fight, like having Goku running and jumping around in Kaioken, to escape Vegeta Ozaru, when in reality he was decrepit because he overcommitted with the Kaioken.
But even details like Gohan vs Dabra... was he Super Saiyan 2? Was he 1? Of course it was SS1, there was no doubt in the manga, and the fight was also, clearly, one sided and in favour of Dabra, but the anime did things it's own way and got everyone confused.
I agree that Goku was about hands, but he very specifically tried to save Gohan the first few major fights of the "Z" portion. Raditz is a given, but he wishes Gohan to be okay by name when heading toward the Saiyans as well as both times he had a "Super Hero" landing on Namek.
Whats your number 1 favorite ?
Probably something that is mid he’s young not a true 90s baby.
My number one favorite is Hunter Hunter for sure
@@GoPlayNTrafficnow thats a shet take
@@GoPlayNTraffic self reporting your agism is crazy
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman I was right hunter x hunter is mid the creator can’t even finish a chapter. Lol
Yo thank you this video is straight FACTS
I never really read the manga so i didnt know about this
8:46 what do we know about Kai??? Thats the version I grew up with and love
Yeah if I'm in the mood to watch DBZ Dubbed watching I'm throwing on DBZ Kai
@@The_Blue_Otaku i mean DBZ Kai is even much closer to the manga than og DBZ so like just why not watch Kai like it doesnt make sense💀
Still no explanation
Yea I agree although i didnt like the opening Kai’s story was a lot tighter and accurate
I feel so sorry for you kai is not near as good
Manga Goku is the same as Anime Goku other than the filler stuff the Anime puts in.
I couldn't finish super, mainly because of the terrible aesthetic
I wouldn't say dragonball is simple, that being said simple doesnt mean bad and complex doesn't mean good, you can succeed at making a simple show and fail at making a complex show, and if dragonball is simple then it succeeded (for the freeza saga anyway 💀)
And often times something simple can evoke complexity that isnt there and allow speculation.
@@gtc1554yup
his passing doesn't make daima a better idea all the sudden, but lets see how it turns out
It's not really his idea in the first place, it's supposed to be TOEI's original db work. But Toriyama got involved and he enjoyed designing the characters for this one, even helping them out on how it the story should go. No matter how bad or good it is, I think I'll enjoy watching it just like how he enjoyed being involved with this project
Shows anime b&w photo he made
Title "MANGA GOKU IS A DIFFERENT BREED
ME: doesn't watch video
I owned every manga as a kid and you couldn’t be anymore correct. Manga Goku was elite, he cared about saving Earth because he considered it his home and had a family. Other than that he just wanted to be as strong as possible. All the other heroic shit from the anime was filler and unnecessary. I feel people would look at Goku differently, more of an antihero than an actual hero if the anime version was accurate.
Yeah Goku in the sub is more or less how Goku is in the manga, hell the dialogue in the dub for Dragon Ball Z Kai from 2012 to 2017 is way more close to the manga compared to the original English dub from the late 90s/early 2000s which changed Goku's characterization to being more like a hero (So blame the localization at Funimation for giving Goku the "I'm the savior of the universe" shit)
You should try watching the anime in japanese or, if you really want to watch it dubbed, watch Dragon Ball Z Kai. You'll have a much more canonical experience than the Funimation dub.
As a self admitted simple-minded person.
Yeh.
Yeh, you right.
8:44 - I haven't seen it, but why are you dissing on Kai? I heard that it cuts the filler to make it more manga accurate??
The anime community would raise pitchforks at someone who likes db as their favorite but then like one piece.
Bruh .. the fact you mentioned Hajime no Ippo... Rep
Well, to be fair with semi perfect sell. In the manga he had significantly less time to teleport back before the explosion then the anime made it seem
Damn so Goku’s whole personality in the anime isn’t cannon.. I need a min
Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism.
Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future.
Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote.
"Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
So toriyama just wanted to make an unlikeable protagonist then. Now I can see why some people prefer the funimation dub goku cause this one’s a POS lmao
@@Lowclasswarrior778fr. The way this dude is talking about goku makes it sound like he was supposed to be the other side of the coin to general tao or some shit.
Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
Naruto part 1 treated side characters as main characters up until a certain point in the series.
loved the video bru, give him his flowers 🌹
HEHEEEE LEMME GET MY SNACKS
So movie Goku must be the goat
@ 0:52 he was doing that to stall buu
This is an incredible video
Goku vs Dabura?
Yeah wtf was that about
I think you got mixed up between the anime and the English dub version of the anime
Because where are this "heroic speeches" the anime gave to goku ?
There is only one that comes to my mind ,its when uses the kioken against freeza where they changed the whole scene from the manga
What? You mean like only one lol
Nah. Sometimes they make Goku acts like super man
@@Goiaba308 any examples for dbz ?
Am not talking about the movies