I honestly think that some of my most treasured memories playing a TTRPG was when I literally had nothing but a makeshift GM screen, the 5e monster manual and my friends around a table. 😆 Sometimes you can't beat good ol' imagination.
Nice overview of a new tool. While I agree about Ambience (It sure makes a nice difference even if it is a pain to set up for selfmade maps), I could not care less about music. As a matter of fact, I personally don't music in my virtual ttrpgs. There is enough to pay attention to, without music pullic at the attention of my players ;)
They need LOS for it to really be useful in addition to this if they could work something out with Dungeon Alchemist they would rock. I don't care about animations or audio I can do that through 3rd party apps. I do care about game systems and dice rolling.
For the Wrath of Devs Kickstarter there is actually 18 days left. It ends on May 8th, so there is still plenty of time for it to get funded, but if they don't end up meeting their goal then I'm not sure what they'll do. 🤔
A VTT IMO should be about automating the tedious admin side of RPGs, not just turning it into a bad video game. This is how I feel about 3D VTTs - they're like the worst of both worlds, they don't offer the gameplay or visual spectacle of a moden video game, but they also don't offer the flexibility or the convenience of a 2D VTT. It just feels more like a gimmick than anything. I'm sure there are people who will love this and that's awesome, anything that gets more people playing TTRPGs is a good thing, but I don't think 3D VTTs are ever going to be as popular as either playing in person or playing on a 2D VTT, simply because 3D VTTs are so much more work for not much more gain than a 2D one.
i dont think any 3D VTT is the future. Theatre of mind is still an important part of P&P and these 3D VTT turn it to video games, basically its a kind of uncanny valley effect, a 2D map turns in your head into a real space while 3D stays a game enviroment. The other thing is it limits you so much more as 2D mapping and need at the same time so much more time to prepare.
I actually was thinking about making a video talking about this very thing, because it's definitely interesting to think about at which point a VTT turns into just a video game inspired by a game like D&D.
I have a feeling these types of things really are going to catch on. When you’re used to lots of visual media, theatre of mind and 2D maps are very awkward at first. People who poo poo the new technology/direction will be looked at as old fashioned farts who just don’t like change. And hey, these VTTs do look nice and immersive on the surface. Eventually though, I think we’ll realize that it ends up limiting our games a whole lot more than we bargained for.
@@crallsfickle2994 but the reality is, you wil still have to have theatre of mind. The fights are still turn based and you have to imagine nobody stands there and wait for his turn. it just takes away the part of feeling to be "there" with standing in a Game Level. And the limitations are not only 3D assets (Forgotten adventrures for example offer over 100000 2D assets only for fantasy), think about how complicated it becomes when somebody wants to climb on a tree, or break through a wall.
@@Rastayeti666 It’ll still be more ‘low tech’ than a video game, yes, but people in most modern societies aren’t known to be real slow and thoughtful about whether to accept new, flashy technology. These new platforms look cool (heck, I think they look cool!) and to denounce new fancy technology typically results in eye rolls and scoffs. That’s perhaps a better understand of why I believe they will catch on despite my agreement with your points. The climb a tree and break through a wall are great examples of what I think will be greatly missing while playing on these 3D VTTs. Either people are going to stop a whole lot of the really creative solutions they would have come up with without such robust visuals or they’ll want to do it anyway but now it will be so jarring because you’ll have to straight up ignore and even go against all those visuals which were guiding you before. It’s those types of things where, if these new VTTs do end up being really prevalent, people might not notice right away but will eventually notice is missing. “Ever notice how much more creative/zany/free/unpredictable our games used to be?” And that ‘do anything you want’ is such a core and unique aspect of the game it will be really sad to see that neutered. I’m not all doom and gloom and afraid our entire hobby is about to be wiped out. I have no doubt there will always be a very strong presence of more traditional and simple styles of play. I hope you’re right, I just have a hard time believing people aren’t going to eat these sorts of programs right up though.
@@crallsfickle2994 I disagree personally - it's like using 3D terrain in a tabletop RPG. Looks cool and can add an extra visual element to the game, but it's ultimately very niche among TTRPG players because if you want it to actually look good, it's usually some combination expensive (buying good wuality 3d terrrain costs a lot of money), inflexible (as in you're limited in what environments you can create with it) or incredibly time consuming with a really high skill floor (like creating your own custom 3D terrain). It's the same issue here, but virtual. You have to buy the VTT, then you either have to use the pre-generated 3d assets that come with the VTT (which means you're limited to only creating or playing on maps represented by those 3d assets) or you have to buy 3d assets from elsewhere and import them (which is expensive and/or time consuming) or you make your own 3d assets, which again takes a long time and requires a high level of skill to do well. There's certainly room for 3D VTTs in the TTRPG space, but I don't think they'll take off in the way that Roll20 or Foundry have, since they're just much less convenient than a traditional 2D VTT, and unless the DM really wants to spend hours upon hours creating custom 3d maps and searching asset stores for the perfect 3d models to represent the monsters, then it's just going to be a less attractive option than a 2D VTT, because that's just so much less work for the DM. I think we'll see more online "influencers" in the TTRPG space using 3D VTTs because they will add that extra visual element to their games, but I don't think they're going to overtake 2D VTTs or just playing on the tabletop with pen and paper. VTTs became popular because it opened up TTRPGs to people outside your immediate location - you can play with friends in different parts of the country or even worldwide over the internet using these tools to simulate playing on a tabletop, which especially during the pandemic was the only way a lot of people could actually play TTRPGs with their friends. 3D VTTs aren't offering anything new on that scale that will revitalise the way the game is played, they're just adding 3D to a game that usually isn't even designed to work in 3D. Obviously each to their own, and as long as people are having fun playing TTRPGs that's all that matters, I just can't see 3D VTTs taking off in the same way 2D ones did a few years ago.
Ikr! And it's pretty interesting that they're taking the procedurally generated feature that Dungeon Alchemist kinda made popular and directly integrating that into a VTT. It's a really cool idea in my opinion.
Hello there :) we have similarities with Dungeon Alchemist as it is super fast to build environments. There are 3 differences though. We cover all 3 eras (fantasy-modern-scifi) equally, we have an online multiplayer and thus you can actually play in your environments and last, we are bad at marketing hahaha. Nevertheless it will be an honour to get your support :)
This review is so good the devs cried ;) I have all the inside information! Thank you so much for this!
And here I am, 2024 and I still prefer writing my adventures on a notebook with a ballpoint pen 😅
Hey I do both, sometimes at the same time lol!
I honestly think that some of my most treasured memories playing a TTRPG was when I literally had nothing but a makeshift GM screen, the 5e monster manual and my friends around a table. 😆 Sometimes you can't beat good ol' imagination.
Nice overview of a new tool.
While I agree about Ambience (It sure makes a nice difference even if it is a pain to set up for selfmade maps), I could not care less about music. As a matter of fact, I personally don't music in my virtual ttrpgs. There is enough to pay attention to, without music pullic at the attention of my players ;)
BABE WAKE UP NATE MADE A NEW VIDEO!
😆
They need LOS for it to really be useful in addition to this if they could work something out with Dungeon Alchemist they would rock. I don't care about animations or audio I can do that through 3rd party apps. I do care about game systems and dice rolling.
I notice there is only 8 days left on the kickstarter. Makes me sad as it doesn't look like it's gonna hit the goal. Will they try again?
For the Wrath of Devs Kickstarter there is actually 18 days left. It ends on May 8th, so there is still plenty of time for it to get funded, but if they don't end up meeting their goal then I'm not sure what they'll do. 🤔
JB2 Animations on Foundry VTT, you say?
It's pretty cool most of the time, but we had to disable it because every time our monk went into stance he became transparent.
A VTT IMO should be about automating the tedious admin side of RPGs, not just turning it into a bad video game. This is how I feel about 3D VTTs - they're like the worst of both worlds, they don't offer the gameplay or visual spectacle of a moden video game, but they also don't offer the flexibility or the convenience of a 2D VTT. It just feels more like a gimmick than anything. I'm sure there are people who will love this and that's awesome, anything that gets more people playing TTRPGs is a good thing, but I don't think 3D VTTs are ever going to be as popular as either playing in person or playing on a 2D VTT, simply because 3D VTTs are so much more work for not much more gain than a 2D one.
It's OK but it isn't quite there yet.
i dont think any 3D VTT is the future. Theatre of mind is still an important part of P&P and these 3D VTT turn it to video games, basically its a kind of uncanny valley effect, a 2D map turns in your head into a real space while 3D stays a game enviroment. The other thing is it limits you so much more as 2D mapping and need at the same time so much more time to prepare.
I actually was thinking about making a video talking about this very thing, because it's definitely interesting to think about at which point a VTT turns into just a video game inspired by a game like D&D.
I have a feeling these types of things really are going to catch on. When you’re used to lots of visual media, theatre of mind and 2D maps are very awkward at first. People who poo poo the new technology/direction will be looked at as old fashioned farts who just don’t like change. And hey, these VTTs do look nice and immersive on the surface. Eventually though, I think we’ll realize that it ends up limiting our games a whole lot more than we bargained for.
@@crallsfickle2994 but the reality is, you wil still have to have theatre of mind. The fights are still turn based and you have to imagine nobody stands there and wait for his turn. it just takes away the part of feeling to be "there" with standing in a Game Level. And the limitations are not only 3D assets (Forgotten adventrures for example offer over 100000 2D assets only for fantasy), think about how complicated it becomes when somebody wants to climb on a tree, or break through a wall.
@@Rastayeti666
It’ll still be more ‘low tech’ than a video game, yes, but people in most modern societies aren’t known to be real slow and thoughtful about whether to accept new, flashy technology. These new platforms look cool (heck, I think they look cool!) and to denounce new fancy technology typically results in eye rolls and scoffs. That’s perhaps a better understand of why I believe they will catch on despite my agreement with your points.
The climb a tree and break through a wall are great examples of what I think will be greatly missing while playing on these 3D VTTs. Either people are going to stop a whole lot of the really creative solutions they would have come up with without such robust visuals or they’ll want to do it anyway but now it will be so jarring because you’ll have to straight up ignore and even go against all those visuals which were guiding you before.
It’s those types of things where, if these new VTTs do end up being really prevalent, people might not notice right away but will eventually notice is missing. “Ever notice how much more creative/zany/free/unpredictable our games used to be?” And that ‘do anything you want’ is such a core and unique aspect of the game it will be really sad to see that neutered.
I’m not all doom and gloom and afraid our entire hobby is about to be wiped out. I have no doubt there will always be a very strong presence of more traditional and simple styles of play. I hope you’re right, I just have a hard time believing people aren’t going to eat these sorts of programs right up though.
@@crallsfickle2994 I disagree personally - it's like using 3D terrain in a tabletop RPG. Looks cool and can add an extra visual element to the game, but it's ultimately very niche among TTRPG players because if you want it to actually look good, it's usually some combination expensive (buying good wuality 3d terrrain costs a lot of money), inflexible (as in you're limited in what environments you can create with it) or incredibly time consuming with a really high skill floor (like creating your own custom 3D terrain). It's the same issue here, but virtual. You have to buy the VTT, then you either have to use the pre-generated 3d assets that come with the VTT (which means you're limited to only creating or playing on maps represented by those 3d assets) or you have to buy 3d assets from elsewhere and import them (which is expensive and/or time consuming) or you make your own 3d assets, which again takes a long time and requires a high level of skill to do well.
There's certainly room for 3D VTTs in the TTRPG space, but I don't think they'll take off in the way that Roll20 or Foundry have, since they're just much less convenient than a traditional 2D VTT, and unless the DM really wants to spend hours upon hours creating custom 3d maps and searching asset stores for the perfect 3d models to represent the monsters, then it's just going to be a less attractive option than a 2D VTT, because that's just so much less work for the DM. I think we'll see more online "influencers" in the TTRPG space using 3D VTTs because they will add that extra visual element to their games, but I don't think they're going to overtake 2D VTTs or just playing on the tabletop with pen and paper.
VTTs became popular because it opened up TTRPGs to people outside your immediate location - you can play with friends in different parts of the country or even worldwide over the internet using these tools to simulate playing on a tabletop, which especially during the pandemic was the only way a lot of people could actually play TTRPGs with their friends. 3D VTTs aren't offering anything new on that scale that will revitalise the way the game is played, they're just adding 3D to a game that usually isn't even designed to work in 3D.
Obviously each to their own, and as long as people are having fun playing TTRPGs that's all that matters, I just can't see 3D VTTs taking off in the same way 2D ones did a few years ago.
Looks a bit like Dungeon Alchemist, but it seems unrelated.
Ikr! And it's pretty interesting that they're taking the procedurally generated feature that Dungeon Alchemist kinda made popular and directly integrating that into a VTT. It's a really cool idea in my opinion.
Hello there :) we have similarities with Dungeon Alchemist as it is super fast to build environments. There are 3 differences though. We cover all 3 eras (fantasy-modern-scifi) equally, we have an online multiplayer and thus you can actually play in your environments and last, we are bad at marketing hahaha. Nevertheless it will be an honour to get your support :)
The devs are so dumb.