The major traffic artery from Scotland to England was the A74 which became the A6 at Carlisle. When the whole route became motorway in the 1990s they planned to callit teh M6 right up to Glasgow but then thought better of it. The parts nearest Glasgow had ben the M74 for years back to the 1960s so the whole Scottish section of the Carlisle /Glasgow motorway became the M74.
The M1 cut the corner from the M1 to the M25 avoiding the M1/M25 junction. You didn't mention the M5 which doesn't touch London. On the A road front, the A2 and the A5 are the same Roman Road, Watling Street, which ran from Dover to Anglesey. The A14 used to be Ermine St which is now the A1198 for the most part.
The Scottish Parliament didn’t exist until 1999, the same time as the Welsh Senate. The UK Govt would have made those decisions as there was no Scottish Govt
But there was the Scottish Office and a separate legal system so roads in Scotland were in the hands of the civil servants in the Scottish Office under the Secretary of State for Scotland until 1999 when it was transferred largely to the new Scottish Parliament.
On paper an M7 would effectively be a duplicate (if not triplicate) of existing major routes, that view has always been a bit narrow minded; as it only considers travel between cities. The Borders, through which the A7 runs, was made insular in the 60s, it not only lost it’s railway, who’s track bed was cruelly severed at each end by the M6 and eventually the A720 (to really drive the point home), there was also no real program of upgrading the A7 to compensate, this isolation ended the historic textile industry. It’s nice that the area wasn’t destroyed by a continuous ribbon of tarmac, however, the lack of investment in the area’s infrastructure, following the closure of the railway has been an economic disaster for the area.
The M8 was planned and named in the late 1950s. There was no Scottish parliament between 1707 and 1999. Or more correctly: the Parliaments of Scotland and England were one and the same during those years, being the Parliament of Great Britain and, later, the United Kingdom.
The Senedd, by the way, also opened in 1999. Had you said that the Northern Ireland Assembly was older than the other two devolved parliaments, you would have been somewhat right, since NI did have a parliament of its own from the 1920s to the 1970s, although that's not the same institution as the present-day Assembly.
Yes, I knew that. An M7 motorway would head south from Edinburgh to Carlisle. Note that despite being on opposite coasts, Carlisle is actually a bit to the east of Edinburgh. If I am driving from England to Edinburgh, I usually take the M6/A74(M)/M74 up to Bellshill, then the A725 across to the M8 junction, then head east on the M8 to Edinburgh.
I think there is something that you missed out explaining in the video and you kind of misled the viewer when you talked about the M10 and that is that motorways, in England at least, is that the country is split into segments (centred on London), so going clockwise from the M1 until you hit the M2 will have M1x designations, like the M11 going through Essex and Cambridgeshire and the M18 going through South Yorkshire up towards Hull. The same for motorways going clockwise again between the M2 and M3 will have M2x designations and so on and so forth. I think, though this is just a guess on my part, that in Scotland they've taken the next number on from the 6 used in England and since the same but using Edinburgh as the centre of the radial pattern, so you have the M74/A74(M), which I'm sure would all be the M74 if the part that goes down to the M6 ever gets upgraded to motorway standard (although I think this should just be called the M6 when that happens, no offence to any Scots reading this, it'd just make life a lot less confusing I think) in a M7 sector until you hit the east-west M8, and then everything round to the M9 has an M8x designation (such as the M80). Looking at the map it could also be centred on Glasgow not Edinburgh, but the principle is the same. So your comments about there being an M10 mind if muddied the waters because this was, when it existed just fitting into the pattern I've just described and not just counting up to the next number. I see you dodged the issue of the M5, but even though this isn't a radial motorway going out from London it still has its own segment that all M5x motorways fit into. I hope this isn't too convoluted an explanation, but I don't think your video really explained this clearly enough.
Surprised you didn’t share the map to have a visual and make a bit more sense. Also the numbering system was surely was put in place before any devolution? Otherwise very informative.
Thank you! I meant to show the map, but I must've forgot when editing. Glad you enjoyed the video, I enjoy making these ones, every day is a school day after all. If you're interested, the map can be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_road_numbering_scheme
@@MotoringChronicleno problem at all. It’s not that I’m particularly interested in the map (thanks for sharing the link btw) it that I present all the time and it’s just easier for the audience if you show whilst you tell. The audience can visualise simply because you have a visual for them!! It makes things easier for you and them and puts matters into context which is relatable ! 👍
As when I were a lad motorways were new LOL I find it most help to think in A roads The system in Britain is radial from the capitals (remember Wales was incorporated into the UK so early (1534) that it lost its "capital" until devolution) So from London: A1 to Edinburgh A2 to Dover A3 to Portsmouth A4 to Bristol / Avonmouth A5 to Holyhead on Anglesey heading to Dublin A6 to Carlisle From Edinburgh: A7 to Carlisle (see A6) A8 to Glasgow A9 to Thurso Road numbers round the two capitals have a number starting with the number for their sector between A1 and A2 they start with a 1 between A2 and A3 they begin with a 2 etc. In Scotland: between A1 and A7 they start with 6 between A7 and A8 they start with 7 etc. There road numbering system was quite well organised but has been played about with with the arrival of the motorways especially the anomalous M5
Your explanation is misleading or simply incorrect in a couple of important ways. Firstly, the Scottish and Welsh devolved parliamemts were set up at the same time in 1999, although the Welsh Senedd was initially called an "Assembly" with much weaker powers. Secondly, the system for the numbering of roads in GB predates both the devolved parliaments AND the motorways, as it is based on the primary A roads A1 to A9 and not the motorways, which came much later. The radial roads from London, A1 to A6 in England and Wales divide the countries into 6 segments. In the segment clockwise from A1 towards A2, other A and B roads are designated numbers starting with 1. Between A2 and A3 they start with 2 etc. Of necessity there are some exceptions where roads cross 2 or more of these segments. In Scotland, the A roads A1, A7, A8 and A9 radiating from Edinburgh, along with the North Sea, divide thst country in a similar way into 5 segments where the A and B roads are allocated numbers starting 1,6,7,8 or 9 clockwise starting from the North Sea. When the earliest motorways were built (M6 and M1) they were mainly seen as replacing sections of the primary A roads (A6 and A1) and their numbering reflected this despite the fact that they both lay in the "6" segment, with the M1 entirely anti-clockwise of the A1! Motorway numbering since then has followed this slightly more liberal application of the numbering system. Also, sections of motorways that have replaced or parallelled A roads have in some cases been designated differently as A+number+(M) as with the A1(M) and the A74(M). But PLEASE don't ask how the number chosen for the M25 was decided!
@@MrGHowsI don't know the official reason but, although the M25 crosses all 6 of the basic England & Wales A road zones, its longest such segment is the southern part between the A2 and A3 where roads are designated 2xxx, so maybe that's why.
the London based theory doesn't add up - the m5 is Birmingham to Devon / Cornwall - as for devolution & a7; devolution only happened in 1999
Because it's in jail. It got arrested for cannibalism, did you not hear? 7 ate 9.
I'll get my coat.
The major traffic artery from Scotland to England was the A74 which became the A6 at Carlisle. When the whole route became motorway in the 1990s they planned to callit teh M6 right up to Glasgow but then thought better of it. The parts nearest Glasgow had ben the M74 for years back to the 1960s so the whole Scottish section of the Carlisle /Glasgow motorway became the M74.
The M1 cut the corner from the M1 to the M25 avoiding the M1/M25 junction. You didn't mention the M5 which doesn't touch London.
On the A road front, the A2 and the A5 are the same Roman Road, Watling Street, which ran from Dover to Anglesey. The A14 used to be Ermine St which is now the A1198 for the most part.
The Scottish Parliament didn’t exist until 1999, the same time as the Welsh Senate. The UK Govt would have made those decisions as there was no Scottish Govt
But there was the Scottish Office and
a separate legal system
so roads in Scotland were in the hands of the civil servants
in the Scottish Office
under the Secretary of State for Scotland
until 1999 when it was transferred largely to
the new Scottish Parliament.
Technically, the Scottish Parliament existed from the 13th to the early 18th centuries, and then was reconvened in 1999.
I would guess reasons why there's no M28, M29 or M30 in the UK has the same reasons as why there's no M7 in the UK.
On paper an M7 would effectively be a duplicate (if not triplicate) of existing major routes, that view has always been a bit narrow minded; as it only considers travel between cities. The Borders, through which the A7 runs, was made insular in the 60s, it not only lost it’s railway, who’s track bed was cruelly severed at each end by the M6 and eventually the A720 (to really drive the point home), there was also no real program of upgrading the A7 to compensate, this isolation ended the historic textile industry. It’s nice that the area wasn’t destroyed by a continuous ribbon of tarmac, however, the lack of investment in the area’s infrastructure, following the closure of the railway has been an economic disaster for the area.
The M8 was planned and named in the late 1950s. There was no Scottish parliament between 1707 and 1999. Or more correctly: the Parliaments of Scotland and England were one and the same during those years, being the Parliament of Great Britain and, later, the United Kingdom.
The Senedd, by the way, also opened in 1999. Had you said that the Northern Ireland Assembly was older than the other two devolved parliaments, you would have been somewhat right, since NI did have a parliament of its own from the 1920s to the 1970s, although that's not the same institution as the present-day Assembly.
Yes, I knew that. An M7 motorway would head south from Edinburgh to Carlisle. Note that despite being on opposite coasts, Carlisle is actually a bit to the east of Edinburgh. If I am driving from England to Edinburgh, I usually take the M6/A74(M)/M74 up to Bellshill, then the A725 across to the M8 junction, then head east on the M8 to Edinburgh.
The M5 doesn't cross the A5 and could have been the M38, except M5 sounds better.
I think there is something that you missed out explaining in the video and you kind of misled the viewer when you talked about the M10 and that is that motorways, in England at least, is that the country is split into segments (centred on London), so going clockwise from the M1 until you hit the M2 will have M1x designations, like the M11 going through Essex and Cambridgeshire and the M18 going through South Yorkshire up towards Hull. The same for motorways going clockwise again between the M2 and M3 will have M2x designations and so on and so forth.
I think, though this is just a guess on my part, that in Scotland they've taken the next number on from the 6 used in England and since the same but using Edinburgh as the centre of the radial pattern, so you have the M74/A74(M), which I'm sure would all be the M74 if the part that goes down to the M6 ever gets upgraded to motorway standard (although I think this should just be called the M6 when that happens, no offence to any Scots reading this, it'd just make life a lot less confusing I think) in a M7 sector until you hit the east-west M8, and then everything round to the M9 has an M8x designation (such as the M80). Looking at the map it could also be centred on Glasgow not Edinburgh, but the principle is the same.
So your comments about there being an M10 mind if muddied the waters because this was, when it existed just fitting into the pattern I've just described and not just counting up to the next number.
I see you dodged the issue of the M5, but even though this isn't a radial motorway going out from London it still has its own segment that all M5x motorways fit into. I hope this isn't too convoluted an explanation, but I don't think your video really explained this clearly enough.
Surprised you didn’t share the map to have a visual and make a bit more sense. Also the numbering system was surely was put in place before any devolution? Otherwise very informative.
Thank you! I meant to show the map, but I must've forgot when editing. Glad you enjoyed the video, I enjoy making these ones, every day is a school day after all.
If you're interested, the map can be found here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain_road_numbering_scheme
@@MotoringChronicleno problem at all. It’s not that I’m particularly interested in the map (thanks for sharing the link btw) it that I present all the time and it’s just easier for the audience if you show whilst you tell. The audience can visualise simply because you have a visual for them!! It makes things easier for you and them and puts matters into context which is relatable ! 👍
As when I were a lad motorways were new LOL
I find it most help to think in A roads
The system in Britain is radial from the capitals
(remember Wales was incorporated into the UK so early (1534)
that it lost its "capital" until devolution)
So from London:
A1 to Edinburgh
A2 to Dover
A3 to Portsmouth
A4 to Bristol / Avonmouth
A5 to Holyhead on Anglesey heading to Dublin
A6 to Carlisle
From Edinburgh:
A7 to Carlisle (see A6)
A8 to Glasgow
A9 to Thurso
Road numbers round the two capitals
have a number starting with the number
for their sector
between A1 and A2 they start with a 1
between A2 and A3 they begin with a 2 etc.
In Scotland:
between A1 and A7 they start with 6
between A7 and A8 they start with 7
etc.
There road numbering system was quite well organised
but has been played about with with the arrival of the motorways
especially the anomalous M5
My question is why doesn't the M6 run all the way down to London and not end in the east Midlands.
cost or geography I'd guess
@andrewharrison7767 well it probably would be cost because the M6 runs into the A14 then that runs into the M11 towards London
Your explanation is misleading or simply incorrect in a couple of important ways.
Firstly, the Scottish and Welsh devolved parliamemts were set up at the same time in 1999, although the Welsh Senedd was initially called an "Assembly" with much weaker powers.
Secondly, the system for the numbering of roads in GB predates both the devolved parliaments AND the motorways, as it is based on the primary A roads A1 to A9 and not the motorways, which came much later.
The radial roads from London, A1 to A6 in England and Wales divide the countries into 6 segments. In the segment clockwise from A1 towards A2, other A and B roads are designated numbers starting with 1. Between A2 and A3 they start with 2 etc.
Of necessity there are some exceptions where roads cross 2 or more of these segments.
In Scotland, the A roads A1, A7, A8 and A9 radiating from Edinburgh, along with the North Sea, divide thst country in a similar way into 5 segments where the A and B roads are allocated numbers starting 1,6,7,8 or 9 clockwise starting from the North Sea.
When the earliest motorways were built (M6 and M1) they were mainly seen as replacing sections of the primary A roads (A6 and A1) and their numbering reflected this despite the fact that they both lay in the "6" segment, with the M1 entirely anti-clockwise of the A1!
Motorway numbering since then has followed this slightly more liberal application of the numbering system. Also, sections of motorways that have replaced or parallelled A roads have in some cases been designated differently as A+number+(M) as with the A1(M) and the A74(M).
But PLEASE don't ask how the number chosen for the M25 was decided!
How was the number for the M25 chosen, then? 😂
@@MrGHows That's a good question, and the answer might surprise you. Or it might not. I don't know, anyway.
@@MrGHowsI don't know the official reason but, although the M25 crosses all 6 of the basic England & Wales A road zones, its longest such segment is the southern part between the A2 and A3 where roads are designated 2xxx, so maybe that's why.