I was talking to a sailor who had just come back from Hawaii summer of 2016 and ran into a telephone pole in the mid pacific. It was most likely from Japan's big tsunami in 2011. So there are a lot of other hazards lurking out there besides containers.
Back in the 70's/80's, I made a half dozen passages on my 55' schooner in the Pacific. Late one afternoon, I was on watch and spotted a mostly sunken container, just one corner sticking up, surfacing every so often in a long easy swell. I would not have been very excited about it, but it was less than 50 yards off, abeam. Meaning, it was just blind luck we did not hit it...which would have likely been fatal. Kinda like lightening, if it's your time, it is your time. The word 'scary' does not cover it. Veteran ''66-68
Thank you for the news. I am probably hit it too containers in December 2017. It heavy damage to my sailboat. I was sailing alone around the world ,damaging my tiller completely and end up in Vietnam for a 11 months.waiting for the passport back to USA .
Unlucky place to lay up. I stopped in Vietnam once to fill my water and fuel tanks. They made me pay two armed guards to watch me. They were not there to protect me, but rather shoot me if I did anything I wasn't supposed to. Sketchy as all &$#@. Thankfully I wasn't stuck there for 11 months. 👍
In 1986 I was on a Frigate and we picked up a mayday from a 45' that hit a container and was taking on water. Got the position worked out and she was about 27 miles from us. All ahead flank, indicate turns for max RPM. We could see her on radar and got to her in about 25 minutes. Plucked everyone off using a motor whaleboat and brought them back. A helicopter came and flew them ashore to Florida.
56.3 knots in a Frigate? Maybe it took just a little longer that 25 minutes to reach her? Either way great story. Lucky for them your Frigate was in the general area.
Only ever stayed in local waters myself, so thought it was a very big sea out there. Until I went on a cruise holiday and while crossing the bay of biscay, I counted 1 shipping container and 3 oil drums - scary!
who do we have to lobby to change international marine salvage laws???? Just curious how can sailors from around the world work together to get these ghost ships and garbage out of the sea???
It sounds pretty unlikely to encounter a container afloat. However, with even a miniscule chance of it happening, we'll continue to keep a lookout on our travels. The consequences of hitting one, (even at our very slow speed), are too serious to ignore. Thank you Helen and Yachting World for an informative video. Fair winds to all, Chris & Rossella 👍
Sailing Britaly tons of random shit is floating around the oceans lots of hits and near misses reported around the globe almost an epidemic of random man made shit adrift IN THE SEAS ITS DISHEARTENING TO SEE AMOUNT OF HUMAN TRASH FLOATING ABOUT ENDLESSLY
Oh my goodness it's sailing britaly! Saw your how to install a washing machine in a micro kitchen video... A hole in the wall?! What a brilliant idea! Way to think outside the box! On the note of shipping containers and sailors, I highly recommend you watch "all is lost" with Robert Redford.
kimbiwa I know this was directed towards SB but I have looked researched this exact product myself. Commercially there are forward facing 3d mapping sonar systems starting at about 7k.
nice work, I agree the chance is very slim (although present). I'm just missing the environmental impact part - as a sailor and diver, the state of the seas is important to me too.
We passed within a few hundred yards of one going from Norfolk to Bermuda. It looked like an orange triangle about 5 feet above the surface. Weather was overcast, 3-4 ft seas during the day.
Perhaps, if the laws allowed those companies that recovered containers on the sea surface or on the sea bed to be allowed once found and recovered to be the legal owner, then there would be a commercial incentive to recover containers plus product. This would enable 1/ employment 2/the environment to be looked after better, 3/ substantially reduce collisions at sea. Some of these high performance trimarans and catermarans reach 40 knots of boat speed. If they hit a container at this speed death is almost a given, yacht would sink within seconds. This is a problem that won't go away. Even when on the sea floor, would this not sink a trawler that snared a container? A better effort needs to be made to secure your load. There does not seem to be much responsibility/ownership on the shipping transport companies behalf. If I tow a trailer I am required to secure my load and even "tarp" it down. The same for a ute, tip truck etc. So why not a container ship. Perhaps wire ropes and winches. Seek engineering solution. My 2 cents.
anything you find adrift and not manned on the water is salvageable legally. it is not viable economically to do so in the case of adrift shipping containers.
Justin Bayola Sorry, in most cases you are not the owner. Most westminster based law and most US states, Australia etc are what is called "title" ownership. However, If you find a seatainer full of rubber dog shit out of china, anbd no one is watching........:)
Great idea, Just one problem, You have a container that might scrap out at 200 dollars, But what about all that stuff inside those containers that is worth nothing that you now have to pay dump fees on plus trucking to get it there?. And not to mention if it was a whole ship with 10,000 plus containers. Were would you ever even find a landfill that could take all the stuff inside those containers. Now, there is good in leaving them at the bottom. This could help fish out a lot like a artificial riff. The other good thing about leaving them at the bottom would be those giant ships that drag massive nets destroying are ocean bottoms around the world would soon be a thing of the pass. Its a tough call. You have to remember there's a lot of hazmat material on a container ship as well. A simple but cheapest fix to me is no matter what a container has loaded in it is, it always floats. "Meaning, Solve the problem before it happens" And this is how you fix the whole problem at the lowest price possible with the least amount of environmental damage as possible. "And just a little message to the poster above, Martin Lang, They do use cables and tie downs and all kinds of equipment to anchor containers to a ship. They'd never get out of port if they didn't..
Thank you for the excellent commentary on this topic, it was great to be given an understanding of the facts. As we prepare for the Melbourne to Osaka race, it was comforting to know that a container could not reasonably float just below the surface.
Just talked to my neighbour in Marina Papeete. Crossing the pacific he hit a container. He told me it was like hitting a rock. It happened in the middle of the night. Luckily he had a lifting keel, which came up. Otherwise he thinks he would had lost the rigg. So it is very unlikely, but it happens.
Maybe the reason that so many Vendée Globe yachts had problems can be explained by two facts: 1. The yachts have multiple underwater projections - 2 rudders, long fin keel, dagger-board and recently foils. A normal cruising yacht has only one as the keel and rudder are in-line. 2. Speed. The VG yachts are many times faster that a normal cruising yacht and it's possible that whales etc. have enough time to 'dodge' a normal yacht, but are surprised by the speed of the VG yachts and are unable to get out of the way in time.
We have whistles that we mount on our cars to warn wildlife I bet that could be adapted to work in the water with some modifications and testing, as long as it doesn't become marine noise pollution.
Was wondering, If you hit a container and you can get all the informatioal numbers and markings from the container, is it possible or allowed to acertain the owner of that container and can you then sue them for the damages???
Struck a 20' length of very heavy square timber. Fortunately I hit the timber sideways on and the boat rode up on it a little way before coming to an abrupt shuddering halt. I was helming and had good lookout ahead at the time... I didn't see it. Hate to think what would have happened had it hit it end on.
Did you not watch the end of the video where she debunks that they can sit just under the water surface. That literally makes no sense. They either sink, or float. There is no magic boundary 2ft below the water to hold them in infinite suspension lol
@@sheilamorrison1954 If its full of stuff with foam packaging it most certainly could float just below the water as many such containers have been seen to do.
@@kell7195 While that might sounds like a reasonable response, its not. Its quite simple really... If an object has more buoyancy than the body it is in, it will float at waterline (at least) or higher. Given how buoyant containers are (They can support 80t of additional weight before they are no longer able to float, assuming watertight etc etc), that to have one sitting below the waterline but not sink would mean it was so perfectly balanced both in load (which must be 80t btw....which they never are as the trucks at each end are limited for 20t per container.), and balance that it neither sinks nor floats. An extremely unlikely event. Containers are the modern day kraken myth. Sometimes they float for a while, but they dont lurk a few feet below the surface. The physics dont add up at all. All this is excluding the fact that there are almost 0 claims, as she said, on any marine insurance company for hitting one, the arc have never had a hit or clipper etc. It just doesnt happen.
Very fast sailing yachts have the particular problem that their wake is not large enough to push objects. (These yachts glide on top of the water rather than push the water on the side.) So while a regular yacht would push an object away while going through water, a racing yacht will hit the same object. In addition, the energy of impact being square of the speed, impacts are more of a problem for racing yachts than regular yachts. I think that could explain why we hear of so many impacts during a race like Vendée Globe.
No yacht, unless it is made of steel or aluminium, will push a container aside. These things weigh too much. If you hit it with enough speed in a composite boat, it will damage the boat.
@@joergmaass I didn't have specifically containers in mind. Heavier displacement boats can push all sorts of debris by the mere fact that they displace water. My boat, a 5.5-ton 34 footer, once pushed an at least 100-kg wood log that was floating slightly off the centerline, without touching it. Lots of objects are pushed by the wake without touching the hull. But the lighter the displacement, the most likely the objects will hit the hull, and even the appendixes. As for the material the boat is made of, your comment is not necessary accurate. Old racing yachts made of aluminium may be fragile and exposed, while early GRP boats were made very tough... Steel might be the exception as it was most often chosen for toughness.
Just saw a yotube vid of a couple on a catamaran sailing across the Pacific who got a Mayday call from a Steel yacht that hit "Something" very solid just below the surface and ripped their keel clean off, it sank in little over a minute, they barely made it into the life raft, luckily the Cat was only 15 km away and another boat was closer and luckily saved the couple, they were shocked how quick their boat went down, suspected to be a shipping container just below the surface!
About the claim that containers can not lurk below the surface... why not? A few days ago I hit a log that was completely submerged below the surface. it was not occasionally bumping part above and the water was much too deep for it ti touch the bottom so it had just the right bouyancy to lurk below the surface. if a log could do it, why not a container? Luckily I was going slowly so no damage. Read the other comments on the physics of the objects staying just below the surface and i concur; perhaps the large objects have a very tiny positive bouyancy and the very infrequent wave is enough to expose part of the object and keep it lurking below the surface most of the time.
I agree - some containers must go through a stage of having a combination of weight and buoyancy that results in slow movements near the surface. All they really need is to be near neutral. I am sure the "no lurking" pronouncement relates to how a final descent will begin for most once buoyancy exceeds weight.
The buoyancy of a log takes a lot longer to change from positive to neutral to negative when compared to a shipping container. She didn't say it can't happen, she said it's not terribly likely, which is an accurate assessment.
The notion that a container's ability to float is mostly based on its ability to be water tight is profoundly naive. The cargo in the container could have a buoyancy that is not great enough to surface the metal box, but great enough to keep from sinking...
They can "lurk", though not for long. As a container becomes neutrally buoyant, the wave action will bring it below the surface where it will remain until it becomes negativity buoyant. As this state should only be a couple of days, compared to the months it spent floating on the surface, including time it spent awash while still being positivity buoyant, it may be statistically insignificant. But not only does it occur, it must occur as part of the decay cycle.
Once something no longer has the buoyancy to remain on the surface, the increase of pressure, with increasing depth, slightly compresses everything more and more, leading to a catastrophic (runaway) condition such that the farther it falls in the water column, the less buoyancy it has. At first it will move slowly down, but it will accelerate to terminal velocity. Only something with active buoyancy compensation, fish, submarine, can remain "neutrally buoyant" at depths below the surface.
DumbledoreMcCracken Absolutely agree, but this "catastrophic event" is not instantaneous, and the more waterproofed the contents of the container, the slower this event will happen. "At first it will move slowly": I don't know what the average vessel draft is on the ocean today, but call it somewhere around 3m? How long it takes for a container to transition from floating 1m above the surface to 3m below I can't say for certain, but to say the transition doesn't happen is not correct. "This transition does not take long" would be better, and giving us an estimate in how many days it take to make that transit would be best. I'm not saying that these collisions are likely, I'm just saying that if a boat hits something slightly below the surface, it still could be a container in its last moments, and I'm not going to be the jackass that calls the skipper (or his technician) a liar. A good shove would certainly send a container on its way in this condition, but without intervention of some sort, the event will take time. From my time on the BC coast I know water logged logs do sink, but they do so at their own pace, posing a hazard for days after they go below the surface.
Answer is yes , but the return would be so weak it would probably be shielded by naturally occurring clutter and so tuned out . In theory a forward looking sonar/fish finder should also detect one , but whether it would actually do so , i honestly don't know . Maybe at close range were the dead zone (surface to scan depth) would be minimized , but i would doubt at any useful range outside that .
In addition to the twist locks at the corners of the containers, the containers are lashed to each other and the structure of the ship with steel cables.
Insurance claims…have you tried to collect without proof? Are you going to secure proof when your boat may be in the process of sinking, possibly in the dark and/or you were just roused from sleep? I believe estimating risk based on insurance claims, or lack thereof, an exercise in futility.
Why aren't these containers picked up. Shouldnt be too difficult once marked and the shipping companies should pay. Those that sink forms no danger to any shipping.
Just saw a yotube vid of a couple on a catamaran sailing across the Pacific who got a Mayday call from a Steel yacht that hit "Something" very solid just below the surface and ripped their keel clean off, it sank in little over a minute, they barely made it into the life raft, luckily the Cat was only 15 km away and another boat was closer and had already picked them up as they arrived, the couple were shocked how quick their tough steel boat went down.
Helen Fretter; we dont want any containers in the sea. You dont know how many are floating about. Why Not? A ship leaving with 500 should arrive with 500. Any loss must be reported upon arrival to the Harbour Master
I wonder if a camera on a tethered balloon would help spot such obstacles. Wireless cameras are affordable these days. Ultimately you would want an AI that could flag the obstacles seen through the camera. This might not be too useful at night.
The same reasons any other metal ship floats...they're big metal objects designed to be waterproof. Just like any closed object, if it's load is less than it's buoyancy, it will float easily. And given the weight and volume of these things, It takes a LOT of cargo to sink a structurally sound ISO container. A container filled with cars or scrap metal will go to the bottom quickly...a container filled with pillows or comforters could float for months.
Ping pong ball shipment for one! Watch myth busters. That would hold it afloat for ever, till they escaped the container when it rusted thru which would take a long time like years. Anything inside a container that will float will in turn float the container there in.
Probably: 1. Because there aren't that many, at least not at a very high density due to the very large size of the oceans. 2. They're relatively hard to find. 3. Their contents may spoil or lose value over time.
Robert Redford pretty much answered that question. Sad they had to sacrifice 3 boats to make that movie.... Would a radar unit be able to see a big chunk of metal partly out of the water but useless if hiding below the water level?
Anything very low in the water would tend to be lost in the surface clutter on radar. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(radar)#Surface_clutter It's somewhat similar to the reason you can't see a object floating low in the water very well when the waves are high enough.
Not sure why this is done in a video format yet contains almost nothing of value graphically. It would be much more interesting and useful to see tabular and geographic display of where containers are lost, in what quantity, etc, so we can understand where they cluster, and then how they "travel"; would also be useful to see stats such as "of 2000 containers lost per year, and an estimated total of x000s believed to be at sea, there have been y confirmed collisions, and z suspected collisions, representing a probability of hitting a container to be 0.00003% (or whatever).
Justin Bonar it's RUclips. I found it interesting and helpful. Video or graph, this is important subject matter for discussion. it might be more helpful to discuss the facts presented rather than being critical of the format. Whatever medium it takes to reach and inform people--to educate them about important topics--is worthwhile. What materials have you presented in this subject? Many want to criticize but few will take action.
Hitting a container in a boat that costs far less than a new car would also be a problem. "Yacht" can mean anything from a few thousand dollars to a billion.
"Godman"? Yes, an inarticulate pointless response to a well-researched story is always made more believable when the person saying it can't spell. Sigh. Go back to your mom's basement, troll.
+Joshua Baker What? Do you need to hear from Sean Hannity or Lou Dobbs to believe it? This just in.... Trump says it's okay to believe this one, it's not fake news as it doesn't make him look bad so it's good.
Hello. Very glad to see the passionate responses of the viewers. Unfortunately, someone appears to have used my account to comment here. I am sure shipping containers do pose a credible threat to yachts and indeed the person in this video is a real human being, not a robot. As for my mom's basement, sadly she does not have one, I fear it may not be a good place to get internet signal or even daylight for that matter, I could miss out on valuable Vitamin D. However, we will begin work post haste to construct said basement, watch this space, or that one.
Perhaps, if the laws allowed those companies that recovered containers on the sea surface or on the sea bed to be allowed once found and recovered to be the legal owner, then there would be a commercial incentive to recover containers plus product. This would enable 1/ employment 2/the environment to be looked after better, 3/ substantially reduce collisions at sea. Some of these high performance trimarans and catermarans reach 40 knots of boat speed. If they hit a container at this speed death is almost a given, yacht would sink within seconds. This is a problem that won't go away. Even when on the sea floor, would this not sink a trawler that snared a container? A better effort needs to be made to secure your load. There does not seem to be much responsibility/ownership on the shipping transport companies behalf. If I tow a trailer I am required to secure my load and even "tarp" it down. The same for a ute, tip truck etc. So why not a container ship. Perhaps wire ropes and winches. Seek engineering solution. My 2 cents.
Salvage claims apply to existing lost cargo or ships found lost at sea. New laws cited was to require shipping companies to retrieve containers lost off their vessels.
Martin Lang at 12 miles out and more I believe if you find it it's yours ..Call coast guard inform what port of call you are from lat long of find and next port of call.This is if it's floating..under water sure more paperwork and have to split the treasurer with locals county state what have you ever.So if off shore and find a mega yacht let them know the name of your vessel and your intention of salvage.My big fear at night run into a container.
Martin Lang at 12 miles out and more I believe if you find it it's yours ..Call coast guard inform what port of call you are from lat long of find and next port of call.This is if it's floating..under water sure more paperwork and have to split the treasurer with locals county state what have you ever.So if off shore and find a mega yacht let them know the name of your vessel and your intention of salvage.My big fear at night run into a container.
Авто/Мото
I was talking to a sailor who had just come back from Hawaii summer of 2016 and ran into a telephone pole in the mid pacific. It was most likely from Japan's big tsunami in 2011. So there are a lot of other hazards lurking out there besides containers.
Captain Lang Sailing tutorials Sailors in the Pacific probably have to keep a look out for that 'island' of floating bath ducks!
Lots of trees
Make them with dissolvable plugs at each end. So at least the container itself would not contribute to the floatation.
I've seen shipping containers with a valve doohickey that had what looked like a thick paper seal inside. Maybe they read your comment. 😁
Good idea.
Rain 🌧
@@Anglo_Browzait just need to be covered with route to it that would only get water when sitting floating
Great video. Scary to sleep now as a solo sailer in a small Ericson 30+.
Back in the 70's/80's, I made a half dozen passages on my 55' schooner in the Pacific. Late one afternoon, I was on watch and spotted a mostly sunken container, just one corner sticking up, surfacing every so often in a long easy swell. I would not have been very excited about it, but it was less than 50 yards off, abeam. Meaning, it was just blind luck we did not hit it...which would have likely been fatal. Kinda like lightening, if it's your time, it is your time. The word 'scary' does not cover it.
Veteran ''66-68
Thank you for the news. I am probably hit it too containers in December 2017. It heavy damage to my sailboat. I was sailing alone around the world ,damaging my tiller completely and end up in Vietnam for a 11 months.waiting for the passport back to USA .
Unlucky place to lay up. I stopped in Vietnam once to fill my water and fuel tanks. They made me pay two armed guards to watch me. They were not there to protect me, but rather shoot me if I did anything I wasn't supposed to. Sketchy as all &$#@. Thankfully I wasn't stuck there for 11 months. 👍
I feel old white Americans are definitely looked down in Vietnam for obviousness
Dear Ms Fretter, thanks a lot for this very informative piece of journalism. Great work!
In 1986 I was on a Frigate and we picked up a mayday from a 45' that hit a container and was taking on water. Got the position worked out and she was about 27 miles from us. All ahead flank, indicate turns for max RPM. We could see her on radar and got to her in about 25 minutes. Plucked everyone off using a motor whaleboat and brought them back. A helicopter came and flew them ashore to Florida.
56.3 knots in a Frigate? Maybe it took just a little longer that 25 minutes to reach her? Either way great story. Lucky for them your Frigate was in the general area.
Which frigate were you on?
Only ever stayed in local waters myself, so thought it was a very big sea out there. Until I went on a cruise holiday and while crossing the bay of biscay, I counted 1 shipping container and 3 oil drums - scary!
They should require transponders on each container....
💡
who do we have to lobby to change international marine salvage laws???? Just curious how can sailors from around the world work together to get these ghost ships and garbage out of the sea???
All containers should have a GPS chip.
You cant find it with gos if its low in the water, and its imposible to see it on radar 🤦♀️
Thanks for this very interesting and informative discussion, great job!
It sounds pretty unlikely to encounter a container afloat. However, with even a miniscule chance of it happening, we'll continue to keep a lookout on our travels. The consequences of hitting one, (even at our very slow speed), are too serious to ignore. Thank you Helen and Yachting World for an informative video. Fair winds to all, Chris & Rossella 👍
Sailing Britaly tons of random shit is floating around the oceans lots of hits and near misses reported around the globe almost an epidemic of random man made shit adrift IN THE SEAS ITS DISHEARTENING TO SEE AMOUNT OF HUMAN TRASH FLOATING ABOUT ENDLESSLY
Oh my goodness it's sailing britaly! Saw your how to install a washing machine in a micro kitchen video... A hole in the wall?! What a brilliant idea! Way to think outside the box!
On the note of shipping containers and sailors, I highly recommend you watch "all is lost" with Robert Redford.
kimbiwa I know this was directed towards SB but I have looked researched this exact product myself. Commercially there are forward facing 3d mapping sonar systems starting at about 7k.
Yeah until one hits you. They should be salvaged if they float.
nice work, I agree the chance is very slim (although present). I'm just missing the environmental impact part - as a sailor and diver, the state of the seas is important to me too.
We passed within a few hundred yards of one going from Norfolk to Bermuda. It looked like an orange triangle about 5 feet above the surface. Weather was overcast, 3-4 ft seas during the day.
Perhaps, if the laws allowed those companies that recovered containers on the sea surface or on the sea bed to be allowed once found and recovered to be the legal owner, then there would be a commercial incentive to recover containers plus product. This would enable 1/ employment 2/the environment to be looked after better, 3/ substantially reduce collisions at sea.
Some of these high performance trimarans and catermarans reach 40 knots of boat speed. If they hit a container at this speed death is almost a given, yacht would sink within seconds. This is a problem that won't go away. Even when on the sea floor, would this not sink a trawler that snared a container? A better effort needs to be made to secure your load. There does not seem to be much responsibility/ownership on the shipping transport companies behalf.
If I tow a trailer I am required to secure my load and even "tarp" it down. The same for a ute, tip truck etc. So why not a container ship. Perhaps wire ropes and winches. Seek engineering solution. My 2 cents.
anything you find adrift and not manned on the water is salvageable legally. it is not viable economically to do so in the case of adrift shipping containers.
Justin Bayola Sorry, in most cases you are not the owner. Most westminster based law and most US states, Australia etc are what is called "title" ownership. However, If you find a seatainer full of rubber dog shit out of china, anbd no one is watching........:)
I didn't say you owned it. I said you could salvage it which does require you to be compensated in most situations...
By the owner
Great idea, Just one problem, You have a container that might scrap out at 200 dollars, But what about all that stuff inside those containers that is worth nothing that you now have to pay dump fees on plus trucking to get it there?. And not to mention if it was a whole ship with 10,000 plus containers. Were would you ever even find a landfill that could take all the stuff inside those containers. Now, there is good in leaving them at the bottom. This could help fish out a lot like a artificial riff. The other good thing about leaving them at the bottom would be those giant ships that drag massive nets destroying are ocean bottoms around the world would soon be a thing of the pass. Its a tough call. You have to remember there's a lot of hazmat material on a container ship as well. A simple but cheapest fix to me is no matter what a container has loaded in it is, it always floats. "Meaning, Solve the problem before it happens" And this is how you fix the whole problem at the lowest price possible with the least amount of environmental damage as possible. "And just a little message to the poster above, Martin Lang, They do use cables and tie downs and all kinds of equipment to anchor containers to a ship. They'd never get out of port if they didn't..
Thank you for the excellent commentary on this topic, it was great to be given an understanding of the facts. As we prepare for the Melbourne to Osaka race, it was comforting to know that a container could not reasonably float just below the surface.
Just talked to my neighbour in Marina Papeete. Crossing the pacific he hit a container. He told me it was like hitting a rock. It happened in the middle of the night. Luckily he had a lifting keel, which came up. Otherwise he thinks he would had lost the rigg.
So it is very unlikely, but it happens.
Maybe the reason that so many Vendée Globe yachts had problems can be explained by two facts:
1. The yachts have multiple underwater projections - 2 rudders, long fin keel, dagger-board and recently foils. A normal cruising yacht has only one as the keel and rudder are in-line.
2. Speed. The VG yachts are many times faster that a normal cruising yacht and it's possible that whales etc. have enough time to 'dodge' a normal yacht, but are surprised by the speed of the VG yachts and are unable to get out of the way in time.
We have whistles that we mount on our cars to warn wildlife I bet that could be adapted to work in the water with some modifications and testing, as long as it doesn't become marine noise pollution.
Whales aren't the most agile of beasts.
Yes, a great insight. Thanks.
Was wondering, If you hit a container and you can get all the informatioal numbers and markings from the container, is it possible or allowed to acertain the owner of that container and can you then sue them for the damages???
Since they claim it is still their property I hope so. Once lost anybody should be able to claim container cargo.
@@bob_frazier once abandoned.
Wonderful information, thank you!
Struck a 20' length of very heavy square timber. Fortunately I hit the timber sideways on and the boat rode up on it a little way before coming to an abrupt shuddering halt. I was helming and had good lookout ahead at the time... I didn't see it. Hate to think what would have happened had it hit it end on.
Great report.
excellent information. thank you!
Thank you ...very informative
I had to report to Garrison Point a container that was floating about 2 feet below the surface some years back, actually within The River Medway.
Did you not watch the end of the video where she debunks that they can sit just under the water surface. That literally makes no sense. They either sink, or float. There is no magic boundary 2ft below the water to hold them in infinite suspension lol
@@sheilamorrison1954 If its full of stuff with foam packaging it most certainly could float just below the water as many such containers have been seen to do.
@@kell7195 While that might sounds like a reasonable response, its not. Its quite simple really...
If an object has more buoyancy than the body it is in, it will float at waterline (at least) or higher. Given how buoyant containers are (They can support 80t of additional weight before they are no longer able to float, assuming watertight etc etc), that to have one sitting below the waterline but not sink would mean it was so perfectly balanced both in load (which must be 80t btw....which they never are as the trucks at each end are limited for 20t per container.), and balance that it neither sinks nor floats. An extremely unlikely event.
Containers are the modern day kraken myth.
Sometimes they float for a while, but they dont lurk a few feet below the surface. The physics dont add up at all.
All this is excluding the fact that there are almost 0 claims, as she said, on any marine insurance company for hitting one, the arc have never had a hit or clipper etc. It just doesnt happen.
Very fast sailing yachts have the particular problem that their wake is not large enough to push objects. (These yachts glide on top of the water rather than push the water on the side.) So while a regular yacht would push an object away while going through water, a racing yacht will hit the same object. In addition, the energy of impact being square of the speed, impacts are more of a problem for racing yachts than regular yachts. I think that could explain why we hear of so many impacts during a race like Vendée Globe.
No yacht, unless it is made of steel or aluminium, will push a container aside. These things weigh too much. If you hit it with enough speed in a composite boat, it will damage the boat.
@@joergmaass I didn't have specifically containers in mind. Heavier displacement boats can push all sorts of debris by the mere fact that they displace water. My boat, a 5.5-ton 34 footer, once pushed an at least 100-kg wood log that was floating slightly off the centerline, without touching it. Lots of objects are pushed by the wake without touching the hull. But the lighter the displacement, the most likely the objects will hit the hull, and even the appendixes. As for the material the boat is made of, your comment is not necessary accurate. Old racing yachts made of aluminium may be fragile and exposed, while early GRP boats were made very tough... Steel might be the exception as it was most often chosen for toughness.
Just saw a yotube vid of a couple on a catamaran sailing across the Pacific who got a Mayday call from a Steel yacht that hit "Something" very solid just below the surface and ripped their keel clean off, it sank in little over a minute, they barely made it into the life raft, luckily the Cat was only 15 km away and another boat was closer and luckily saved the couple, they were shocked how quick their boat went down, suspected to be a shipping container just below the surface!
About the claim that containers can not lurk below the surface... why not? A few days ago I hit a log that was completely submerged below the surface. it was not occasionally bumping part above and the water was much too deep for it ti touch the bottom so it had just the right bouyancy to lurk below the surface. if a log could do it, why not a container? Luckily I was going slowly so no damage.
Read the other comments on the physics of the objects staying just below the surface and i concur; perhaps the large objects have a very tiny positive bouyancy and the very infrequent wave is enough to expose part of the object and keep it lurking below the surface most of the time.
I agree - some containers must go through a stage of having a combination of weight and buoyancy that results in slow movements near the surface. All they really need is to be near neutral. I am sure the "no lurking" pronouncement relates to how a final descent will begin for most once buoyancy exceeds weight.
The buoyancy of a log takes a lot longer to change from positive to neutral to negative when compared to a shipping container. She didn't say it can't happen, she said it's not terribly likely, which is an accurate assessment.
Thorough thank you
The notion that a container's ability to float is mostly based on its ability to be water tight is profoundly naive. The cargo in the container could have a buoyancy that is not great enough to surface the metal box, but great enough to keep from sinking...
@ 4:07
Is it possible to make a claim against the company who was shipping the container? Surely there must be serial numbers or such the like.
They can "lurk", though not for long. As a container becomes neutrally buoyant, the wave action will bring it below the surface where it will remain until it becomes negativity buoyant. As this state should only be a couple of days, compared to the months it spent floating on the surface, including time it spent awash while still being positivity buoyant, it may be statistically insignificant. But not only does it occur, it must occur as part of the decay cycle.
Once something no longer has the buoyancy to remain on the surface, the increase of pressure, with increasing depth, slightly compresses everything more and more, leading to a catastrophic (runaway) condition such that the farther it falls in the water column, the less buoyancy it has. At first it will move slowly down, but it will accelerate to terminal velocity. Only something with active buoyancy compensation, fish, submarine, can remain "neutrally buoyant" at depths below the surface.
DumbledoreMcCracken Absolutely agree, but this "catastrophic event" is not instantaneous, and the more waterproofed the contents of the container, the slower this event will happen.
"At first it will move slowly": I don't know what the average vessel draft is on the ocean today, but call it somewhere around 3m? How long it takes for a container to transition from floating 1m above the surface to 3m below I can't say for certain, but to say the transition doesn't happen is not correct. "This transition does not take long" would be better, and giving us an estimate in how many days it take to make that transit would be best. I'm not saying that these collisions are likely, I'm just saying that if a boat hits something slightly below the surface, it still could be a container in its last moments, and I'm not going to be the jackass that calls the skipper (or his technician) a liar. A good shove would certainly send a container on its way in this condition, but without intervention of some sort, the event will take time. From my time on the BC coast I know water logged logs do sink, but they do so at their own pace, posing a hazard for days after they go below the surface.
Wilfred Darr more like minutes to maybe tens of minutes...not days
Great info...learned a lot...keep it up...SV Aquila...
Thanks for posting this.
With regards to the low floating profile - do you know if they give any sort of radar return?
Answer is yes , but the return would be so weak it would probably be shielded by naturally occurring clutter and so tuned out . In theory a forward looking sonar/fish finder should also detect one , but whether it would actually do so , i honestly don't know . Maybe at close range were the dead zone (surface to scan depth) would be minimized , but i would doubt at any useful range outside that .
In addition to the twist locks at the corners of the containers, the containers are lashed to each other and the structure of the ship with steel cables.
2016 off the coast of Ecuador we missed a very large tree stump by 20 meters . if we had hit it , in our 42ft sailing boat , it would have been Bad!
require an active GPS transponder system or neg buoyant boxes..........
They are like mini ice burgs.
Insurance claims…have you tried to collect without proof? Are you going to secure proof when your boat may be in the process of sinking, possibly in the dark and/or you were just roused from sleep? I believe estimating risk based on insurance claims, or lack thereof, an exercise in futility.
what's the estimated accumulated container count on the sea floor?
Maybe that explains rising sea levels. ;)
Why aren't these containers picked up. Shouldnt be too difficult once marked and the shipping companies should pay. Those that sink forms no danger to any shipping.
Compared to bouys adrift, trees, whales the risk is pretty small I think
all is lost (
A steel hull would help but no guarantees.
Just saw a yotube vid of a couple on a catamaran sailing across the Pacific who got a Mayday call from a Steel yacht that hit "Something" very solid just below the surface and ripped their keel clean off, it sank in little over a minute, they barely made it into the life raft, luckily the Cat was only 15 km away and another boat was closer and had already picked them up as they arrived, the couple were shocked how quick their tough steel boat went down.
@@kell7195 Wow, puts me off sailing ocean passages.
@@michaelcarey299 Yeah its a bit of an Eye opener isnt it, lucky they survived to tell the tale.
I imagine a huge amount went out during the Japanese tsunami
Helen Fretter; we dont want any containers in the sea. You dont know how many are floating about. Why Not? A ship leaving with 500 should arrive with 500. Any loss must be reported upon arrival to the Harbour Master
Chance vs risk.
Like the movie "All is lost".
The chance is extremely low. Not enough to worry about. You have much greater hazards at sea.
Hear say.
I wonder if a camera on a tethered balloon would help spot such obstacles. Wireless cameras are affordable these days. Ultimately you would want an AI that could flag the obstacles seen through the camera. This might not be too useful at night.
The chances of colliding with a shipping container whilst sailing is 50 - 50.
You either will collide with one or you won't collide with one!
Why would shipping containers float?!
The same reasons any other metal ship floats...they're big metal objects designed to be waterproof.
Just like any closed object, if it's load is less than it's buoyancy, it will float easily. And given the weight and volume of these things, It takes a LOT of cargo to sink a structurally sound ISO container.
A container filled with cars or scrap metal will go to the bottom quickly...a container filled with pillows or comforters could float for months.
Ping pong ball shipment for one! Watch myth busters. That would hold it afloat for ever, till they escaped the container when it rusted thru which would take a long time like years. Anything inside a container that will float will in turn float the container there in.
And all lost containers are lost in sea lanes initially.
Wouldn’t some of these shipping containers have people in them? It’s a known fact people have been found in them.🥺💔😭
Scary thought. I know there was one container they busted in 2000 with around 15 people inside.
hitting ghost ships blows donkey balls sue the owners of the ghost ships insurance companies
Hang on The original Elite Game Revolved around Shipping containers Why are we as a ship savvy nation not out there Harvesting this GLUT of FREE GOODS
Probably: 1. Because there aren't that many, at least not at a very high density due to the very large size of the oceans. 2. They're relatively hard to find. 3. Their contents may spoil or lose value over time.
What a Privileged question!
Get a life!
Idiot
Aluminium yacht
Robert Redford pretty much answered that question. Sad they had to sacrifice 3 boats to make that movie.... Would a radar unit be able to see a big chunk of metal partly out of the water but useless if hiding below the water level?
Anything very low in the water would tend to be lost in the surface clutter on radar. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(radar)#Surface_clutter It's somewhat similar to the reason you can't see a object floating low in the water very well when the waves are high enough.
There is a reason that sailboats have radar targets installed on their mast.
Ever hear of narco subs, they run just below the surface to avoid both radar and sonar...
Not sure why this is done in a video format yet contains almost nothing of value graphically. It would be much more interesting and useful to see tabular and geographic display of where containers are lost, in what quantity, etc, so we can understand where they cluster, and then how they "travel"; would also be useful to see stats such as "of 2000 containers lost per year, and an estimated total of x000s believed to be at sea, there have been y confirmed collisions, and z suspected collisions, representing a probability of hitting a container to be 0.00003% (or whatever).
Justin Bonar it's RUclips. I found it interesting and helpful. Video or graph, this is important subject matter for discussion. it might be more helpful to discuss the facts presented rather than being critical of the format. Whatever medium it takes to reach and inform people--to educate them about important topics--is worthwhile. What materials have you presented in this subject? Many want to criticize but few will take action.
I agree it could have been with a few hours more effort be packaged much better. Her discussion was also not really focused or structured.
So the risk of an accident is so small it's not feasible to do any thing about it?
her eyes say she is lying
Fairly sure that your odds of hitting a whale are much higher than hitting a lost shipping containers.
Who care maybe slow t f down and buy an onboard forward metal detector 😂
just another first world problem. Us plebs never need to worry about this just a super boat owner problem which we all dont give a shit about!
Peter57808 And what happens when a chemical container sinks next to your beach? Still a stupud first world problem?
Hitting a container in a boat that costs far less than a new car would also be a problem. "Yacht" can mean anything from a few thousand dollars to a billion.
Peter57808 the problem goes beyond super yachts, it's a hazard to regular sailors as well
Guess what? We don't GAFF about SJW's either.
Fake. SO godman FAke
Yeah sure, in spite of the video evidence and maritime insurance loss claims saying otherwise
You have a fake account.
"Godman"? Yes, an inarticulate pointless response to a well-researched story is always made more believable when the person saying it can't spell. Sigh. Go back to your mom's basement, troll.
+Joshua Baker
What? Do you need to hear from Sean Hannity or Lou Dobbs to believe it?
This just in.... Trump says it's okay to believe this one, it's not fake news as it doesn't make him look bad so it's good.
Hello. Very glad to see the passionate responses of the viewers. Unfortunately, someone appears to have used my account to comment here. I am sure shipping containers do pose a credible threat to yachts and indeed the person in this video is a real human being, not a robot. As for my mom's basement, sadly she does not have one, I fear it may not be a good place to get internet signal or even daylight for that matter, I could miss out on valuable Vitamin D. However, we will begin work post haste to construct said basement, watch this space, or that one.
Perhaps, if the laws allowed those companies that recovered containers on the sea surface or on the sea bed to be allowed once found and recovered to be the legal owner, then there would be a commercial incentive to recover containers plus product. This would enable 1/ employment 2/the environment to be looked after better, 3/ substantially reduce collisions at sea.
Some of these high performance trimarans and catermarans reach 40 knots of boat speed. If they hit a container at this speed death is almost a given, yacht would sink within seconds. This is a problem that won't go away. Even when on the sea floor, would this not sink a trawler that snared a container? A better effort needs to be made to secure your load. There does not seem to be much responsibility/ownership on the shipping transport companies behalf.
If I tow a trailer I am required to secure my load and even "tarp" it down. The same for a ute, tip truck etc. So why not a container ship. Perhaps wire ropes and winches. Seek engineering solution. My 2 cents.
Salvage claims apply to existing lost cargo or ships found lost at sea. New laws cited was to require shipping companies to retrieve containers lost off their vessels.
Martin Lang at 12 miles out and more I believe if you find it it's yours ..Call coast guard inform what port of call you are from lat long of find and next port of call.This is if it's floating..under water sure more paperwork and have to split the treasurer with locals county state what have you ever.So if off shore and find a mega yacht let them know the name of your vessel and your intention of salvage.My big fear at night run into a container.
Martin Lang at 12 miles out and more I believe if you find it it's yours ..Call coast guard inform what port of call you are from lat long of find and next port of call.This is if it's floating..under water sure more paperwork and have to split the treasurer with locals county state what have you ever.So if off shore and find a mega yacht let them know the name of your vessel and your intention of salvage.My big fear at night run into a container.
Absolutely, I wonder how often "container strike" occurs? Have you heard of this happening to yachties? Cheers for your reply.
There was a movies made about it happening can't remember the name of it..I remember he set his life boat on fire won't tell no more good move.