Deuxmoi & the Normalization of Stalking Celebrities | Internet Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- Internet analysis: celebrity privacy & the gossip industry. // Get 73% off a 2-year subscription to NordVPN with an additional 4 months for free at nordvpn.com/tiffanyferg.
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#internetanalysis #celebritygossip #deuxmoi
time stamps:
0:00 - The Social Contract of Fame
2:37 - the celebrity gossip industry
3:44 - today's sponsor, NordVPN
4:54 - Deuxmoi, the best celeb gossip on instagram (apparently)
7:40 - celeb spottings
9:35 - anonymous gossip & "blind items"
10:19 - paparazzi and the celebrity photo marketplace
11:43 - Deuxmoi and amateur paparazzi
12:55 - is it okay to take "lowkey" pics of celebrities?
14:33 - Cole Sprouse's "camera duels"
15:44 - do celebs owe fans photos?
17:46 - who is owed privacy or anonymity?
21:10 - do public figures deserve privacy?
25:36 - do influencers deserve privacy?
28:30 - final thoughts: is fame worth it?
SOURCES & REFERENCES:
Deuxmoi, Instagram's Biggest Gossip: The Celebrity Gossip You Won't Find in the Tabloids - www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/st...
The Joy and Agony of Being @deuxmoi, Instagram's Accidental Gossip Queen - www.vanityfair.com/style/2021...
The Bizarre Story of Cole Sprouse's Tumblr Experiment - • The Bizarre Story of C...
Re: Ian Somerhalder Rude to Fans - • RE: Ian Somerhalder Ru...
"Draw a line between freedom of speech and privacy of public figures" by Lasa Sun - novaojs.newcastle.edu.au/hass...
Ms. Lauryn Hill Speaks in Depth about Fame (Rolling Stone interview) - www.rollingstone.com/music/mu...
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Tiffany Ferguson (she/her), 26 years old, currently in NYC. Here on Tiffanyferg, my main series is called Internet Analysis, where I research and discuss topics related to social issues and media.
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let's discuss the celebrity gossip industry and public figures' right to privacy! // PS big thank you to today's sponsor! Get 73% off a 2-year subscription to NordVPN with an additional 4 months for free at nordvpn.com/tiffanyferg.
I believe celebrities have a right to privacy just like the rest of us. Also, to imply that because you live in a mansion, you can't be depressed, is pretty nasty. I disagree very much with the luxurious life that almost all celebrities indulge in (while the climate and sentient being suffer). On the other hand I think they wouldn't have gotten as rich and their craft wouldn't have been as talked about, if it wasn't for paparazzis and parasocial relationships (this last one is in my opinion inevitably conjoined with nasty behavior)
Great video as always👍🏼 One thing that you and too many other youtubers do is never talking about your own experiences with fans just mention it briefly like that would hit you bad if you did or something, why is that? I seen that so many times & never understood why so few actually share it
@@youtubealiasoriginal sometimes talking too specifically can encourage certain individuals or encourage others to do similar things, unfortunately! that’s my thought process at least
I must admit that I was tempted to go and subscribe to that gossip Insta account but then decided that would make me a hypocrite.
One cannot both disapprove of the gossip industry and at the same time take part in it.
I had no idea of the trauma Britney Spears endured. I saw it as it was happening but often assumed it was staged for the media. Your analysis of her in your segment really brought home the point that she was tormented for decades. Anyone would self-destruct from that amount of pressure. We are blessed to have her alive. Anna Nicole Smith and others that came to mind... didn't fair so well.
Honestly the idea that deuxmoi wants to keep their anonymity but doesn't give celebrities the same consideration is a huge hypocrisy IMO.
I think it’s less hypocrisy and more intelligence.
@@DSQueenie It can very well be both. Because they have negatively impacted the lives of so many public figures, it makes sense that they would be anxious to have their personal information made public. It is also hypocritical that their account is so invasive to content creators' private lives (which really is all that celebrities are, content creators) but they don't want anything about their private life public despite being a content creator themselves.
I KNOW ??? LIKE THE IRONY OF IT ALL???
It's insanity
@@grenbaygrl1 and also she or he is famous. Their page is notorious. So shouldn't they have their privacy revoked as well?
"If they don't want their exact location and behavior posted on social media for the world to see then they shouldn't go out in public" is full on "if she didn't want to be sexually assaulted, she shouldn't have been wearing that low cut dress" logic.
THIS
no means no
And also it's nonsensical. So do we expect celebrities to simply not go out in public?
This is not the same at all
The point IS that there are people who will never have this mindset they won't understand not to stalk, SOOO to prevent THOSE people from harassing celebrities, they shouldn't post pictures. Yes they should totally do whatever they want but even I as a private person should not post personal stuff online.
this reminds me of a compilation video I say titled something like "harry styles is so nice" and whilst I agree he seems like a pleasant guy it didn't sit right with me because it included clips of him being polite to fans clearly violating his bodily autonomy. Someone grabbed his face and kissed him (!!!) and to say him not snapping makes him "nice" implies that if he flipped out it would make him "ungrateful." A big step would be changing how we talk about celebrities setting boundaries. When they snap at the press or even fans rather than just calling them ungrateful we really need to question why they get so defensive (hint: it's because they feel unsafe!) also this is great, you killed this one Tiffany!
Omg yes
Couldn’t agree moore 🐄🐄
Love how Tiffany and Tara support and shout out other creators.
this made me think of the weird culture of "fansites" and airport pics in k-pop: so called "fans" swarm idols up to take pictures at airports (or anywhere they can, really) of them which they then post online and make fan merch of. I think ANYONE who has ever had to take a flight can agree that airports are more often than not an awful experience, so imagining going through that but with the added pressure of making sure my outfit and makeup are insta post worthy because there will be a dozen cameras flashing on my face while people are screaming at me and trying to touch me, and having to pretend I'm ok with it sounds like a nightmare
YES yeah like I don't doubt Harry is a "Nice" person in general, but some of these celebs labeled "nice" a lot of times feels like it bleeds into "they have had it made clear that they need to just role with the crossed boundaries/have been told that it be better if they just let it happen" like, this feeling of knowing the backlash if they said how uncomfortable they were with some of these fans and have been told "if you know what's good for you you'll just let it happen, give the public what they want" WHICH...is all sorts of sad and messed up
And then when a Caleb does set a boundary they're called ungrateful or "rude" or what have you
the fact that so many youtubers (off the top of my head i can think of micarah tewers & bestdressed) have had "fans" stalk them is absolutely terrifying. and the fact that they then had to MOVE in order to feel safe again!?!? it's messed up how entitled people feel when it comes to invading someone's privacy just because they "think" they have a connection and that they're now owed attention
That's why it bothers me when people criticize celebrities for living in closed communities.
There were some murdered by fans/stalkers, and even living in closed communities they had "fans" breaking into their homes.
They are protecting themselves from their "fans"
Great comment and also i love your videos!
Same with Emma chamberlain a few years ago when she first moved to LA!!!
the bestdressed situation genuinely breaks my heart. ashley having to MOVE was so scary to hear about, and also her leaving the platform is one of the worst losses ever... I'm glad she's doing much better and still active on Instagram, but man, her videos were so wonderful; I'll never forget just how vile and horrible people were to her for NO good reason other than jealousy and pettiness.
bestdressed has had to move TWICE because of this it's really sad
I don't understand why people seem to think that "CELEBRITY" is a job. You're famous so your job is to take pictures with your fans? No, they are artists, actors, singers, influencers, people who are good at what they do and then become famous as a side result. Their work is to perform, not to deal with every entitled stranger in the street.
its sick because to me bc its like some fans see fame as an end to itself? like thats why their favs do what they do; to be seen and ogled over. this seems like a projection caused by the fact that the fan also has a deep desire to be seen but doesnt have the passion or talent to be an artist. which is sad but also a personal issue separate from the artist
most artists dont want fame, every fan wants to identify with a famous person tho
You put it so perfectly!
Exactly! There are people who make wonderful things each and every day, because they don’t have a platform or a place to expose themselves then they might not get the recognition and exposure.
@@COLORMIND.mp4
When they say
"They work so hard for us"
Just imagine how much my blood boils
Yes, except influencers, they deserve privacy but I don´t really know what they are good at
I remember reading about Steve Carrell scolding some paparazzi. He was teaching his son to ride his bike, some paparazzi began to crowd around the sidewalk, snapping pictures. His son got overwhelmed, ran inside upset, crying. So Steve told them to stop, that he would pose for pics for them anytime, but his son did not agree to that.
As he fucking should. Ppl are fucking awful.
Paparazzi photographing kids is absolutely disgusting. I would have probably cussed them out and ended up with headlines akin to what Britney got 10 years ago...😠
Taking pictures of children without parental consent should be against the law.
@@LoveAndSnapple It is against the law. In my country at least.
@@LoveAndSnapple it is against the law in a lot of countries.
As someone who worked for an A list celebrity, I don't think the general public can possibly understand what it's like to be constantly recognized, followed, etc. Imagine if everywhere you went, people felt like they knew you, and expected you to acknowledge them and their feelings towards you. It's a really disconcerting experience, even as someone who just witnessed it as a bystander. My boss always appreciated it when people spoke to and treated him like a normal person... because he is a normal person.
@@maverickbull1909 did you somehow skip through the entire fucking video?
I mean celebrities want to be famous and recognized so they should take into account that YES people might recognize them everywhere.
@@EchelonPandora there's a difference between being recognized/kindly approached and straight up being stalked/harassed/mobbed.
@@maverickbull1909 Omigod not being stalked and harassed is like SO totally reasonable.
Maybe you should read a book too my dude.
@@shelbyb9965 Uhm I know. But celebs should be prepared.
This also gets really messy when the celebrities are kids. I honestly don't believe that kids fully understand the consequences of fame and therefore can't really consent to being famous. And yet people treat them like they 100% chose this when usually they didn't; they just got lucky/unlucky and blew up online or their parents chose for them. It's really upsetting, that people don't even see them as kids anymore.
Similar to this, so many celebrities started their careers very young, and some of them like Britney or Lindsay Lohan ended up being the most harassed by paparazzi. Like "they knew what they signed up for"? No, they did not, they were children
People used to bash Shirley Temple’s mom and call her controlling because she was VERY protective of Shirley, to the point of picking out who Shirley played with, because she didn’t want her daughter to feel like she stood out or was different. Shirley absolutely loved dancing and acting and all that stuff that there weren’t otherwise avenues for kids to do at the time, and Shirley did get nervous when people she didn’t know made a fuss over her in public or tried to take pictures. So her mother shielded her from that. I have a book from 1935 from her mother about a play date Shirley had where a little girl just stared star-struck, and it make Shirley very unsettled. Her mother also forbade people on sets from treating Shirley like a major star, and had her called Miss Temple the same way anyone else would be. Going to events just just acting a part for the evening.
I actually agree with 98% of what she did with Shirley.
It can be very terrifying because, as a child, your world is usually very small between very few places. Home, school, the people in your neighborhood, and perhaps places of worship. But I remember a girl said that adults would come up to her and want to speak to her and it was so weird because they all knew who she was but she didn’t know any of them.
Another thing I forgot to add is when you’re a RUclips child star and your mother (most likely your mother) has been filming you since literally the day you were born. Literally, as you exited her body. And someone sees you at 16 and they’ve been following your entire life.
It’s that same sensation when you meet one of your parent’s longtime friends and they ask, “Do you remember me? I’ve known you since you were a smaller than a loaf of bread!” …and you have absolutely no idea who they are…
@@LoveAndSnapple jeez, that is so odd...honestly that last sentence gave me chills
30 minutes of Tiffany explaining what manners are 😭 god what has social media made us
celebrity stalking was a thing long before social media. Theresa Saldana and Björk were almost murdered by their stalkers in 1989 and 1996 respectively. Rebecca Schaeffer did not survive. Gwyneth Paltrow had a sex offender stalking her from 2000 to 2016. And Madonna, Winona Ryder, Alyssa Milano, and Britney Spears have struggled with them since the beginnings of their careers.
I mean to be fair, deranged "fans" stalking celebrities isn't a new phenomenon. It may have gotten worse in recent years, but I'm recalling how, for example, a stalker tried to kill Björk with a bomb in 1995.
@@babymilksnatcher
Was also that actress, i cant remember her name, but idk if he entered her home, same with Sandra Bullock...
I think her name is Brooke Sh...i cant remember her last name
And i know that Natalie Portman who was a literal child got a creepy letter by a predator...
And now Billie Eilish, Ariana Grande, Taylor Swift & Millie Bobbie Brown
It makes me feel sick
@@notwerkinginthishouse8634 brooke shields?
@@s.s6081
Yup... i think someone stalked her too
I've always hated the narrative that celebrities "owe" their fans anything. That level of entitlement is childish and creepy.
exactlyyy, u support them because of the art/content they put out, that is the only thing they are obliged to share with you not their family, friends, favourite places to visit or even pets!
It really gives me the "I put a roof over your head" parent mentality
@@zaddkiel4458and those kind of parents are the worst and leave kids traumatized.
@@nobodyelse7911 yeah been there 😂
I lived in Nashville for years, and it was an "unspoken rule" that as a local, you didn't harass any celebrities that were out. I've seen several, but I just took a mental note that it was kind of cool to see them, and let them live their lives.
I live in Vancouver and it’s the same here overall
I think it’s something you’re taught as a kid /teen as well. Obviously not everyone will be in this situation so there might not be a learning experience. When there was a high profile singer in the hotel we were staying at when I was younger, my parents taught me that when you come across someone famous that you recognise and who’s off duty, don’t stare, leave them be and let them relax. If the person wants to interact with you, they will. I have seen plenty of famous people living in my countries’ capital and I wouldn’t dream of making them feel uncomfortable here by harassing them when they’re just trying to get coffee or walk in the park.
Same in Los Angeles (not Hollywood ppl) locals there’s an unspoken rule
Australia generally has this unspoken rule, particularly Byron Bay which is a bit of a hotspot
Yeah, you can wave or smile or quickly say like "hi! love your work!" and keep going. My sister saw Paul McCartney at the MOMA in NYC and she just smiled and said "Hi Paul" and he smiled back and said "Hello love." Honestly so much better than a photo IMO.
Yikes. Deuxmoi balking at the question about children and saying "she's neither one of those" like the kids signed up to be born, stalked, and reported on by her is something else.
yeah i don't wish anything bad to happen to this woman but i gotta be honest, if her fans eventually give her a taste of her own medecine by blasting her personal info online, i'll laugh my ass off. i don't think anyone SHOULD do that but come on... the irony would be too delicious
Has Deuxmoi verified their gender? Or anything about themselves? This is my first time hearing about them so idk
@@shannonceleste5557 it’s in the vid
@@KookiesNolly The schadenfreude would be real yes.
amazing as usual! the irony of the person running deuxmoi who thinks they deserve privacy but celebs don't
Irony at its finest
@@roseredmayne
Tbh, i feel bad whenever i watch smth about celebs ...
I love watching performances and then i remember what they have to go through to look "perfect"
I know someone asked me why am i even a fan if i think it's bad...
I mean, we can still "love" something and yet we can fight for some changes,right?
@@notwerkinginthishouse8634 Yep, I've always been a fan of acting and drama, yet I've always wondered what goes on behind the scenes. I couldn't be able to sit down for hours having makeup, hair and clothes all organised. If people ask you why your a fan if you think it's a bad, it's kind of like enjoying things yet fighting for their rights. People really do not care for celebrities privacy that's why I'm completely fine the way I am.
@@aihara2779
I think in life is not avoidable to be a "hypocrite" ... there is no way you cant participate in something and again to hate that part of the world...like for example only fans,i believe that those people who do it hate that world but want to make money easy way which is ok ig...
But the audacity that some people think that you "owe" them smth is what pisses me off...
Its like giving yourself right to go to a house of your doctor whenever you feel like it or if u do some job,your boss to call u whenever he feels like it bc "you owe them"
We all have to be "depended" on something until we become independent(which i hope one day will happen)
I hate modern slavery
I get that people want help and others to care but its kinda selfish to the other part...
I just wish for overpopulation to just stop existing
@@notwerkinginthishouse8634 I agree with what you say but overpopulation will probably be a massive problem in the future. Fast forward to like 2050, I don't think things will be amazing. But we've destroyed the world enough I guess, sometimes I feel humans are the reason all this happened. Some innocent, some not, some unknown. But I don't have any right to label anybody; as much as they do themselves.
When people stalk celebrities, they get paid for it instead of charged
the "it's not real life" line is basically gaslighting at this point. Dave Chappelle used it recently to justify transphobia, which has real world consequences to people who are fucking trans, and trans peoples' family and friends. Twitter got dump elected and his fanatic cult followers literally tried to overthrow the government in January instead of accepting the results of the election. social media absolutely does affect real life, anybody that tries to say otherwise is absolutely delusional.
@@naurrr What? What does that have to do with OP's comment? Did you type it on the wrong video?
@@Qqqpppuyt Not the wrong video, but probably the wrong comment
@@naurrr Also "Twitter got dump elected" sounds like Twitter got something done to it than did something. It should be "Twitter got Dump elected". Fix your capitalization.
I just checked the Deuxmoi page and saw a sighting of a guy I went to high school with who’s now an actor. It really put into perspective how weird this whole thing is. I was like, that’s literally just a normal guy. Why do we care where he is?
Stalking is Stalking and it's freaking creepy
So curious who it was
@Christine Connor This comment is so tragicomical in the context of the video and the context of what you're replying to. But it made me laugh.
God that Ian Somerhalder section. I remember a drag queen I like, who is disabled, made a comment online once about how she didn't always have the physical energy to take pictures with fans outside after working long nights at drag shows and the internet (and some of her colleagues) absolutely tore her apart for it. The idea that introducing the public into some of what you do means you must exist for public consumption, with no boundaries, 24/7, is insane
I remember when that drama happened. It was so ridiculous. While it is more standard practice to have some sort of meet and greet in the drag scene, it's certainly shouldn't be seen as a necessity. And no one deserves to get hate for choosing not to, no matter what the reason.
Yeah, Jinx Monsoon has narcolepsy and people were livid when she said that standing up and greeting a line of people for four hours, obviously she won't be as enthusiastic and energetic as she was from the beginning of the meet and greet.
same with how annoyed people get with stage actors who don't come out to stagedoor after. like theyve worked 1-2 shows which is incredibly taxing and to expect them to do something theyre not even paid for is ridiculous. but people get mad sometimes about not meeting their fave actor
@@user-gt2bn5el2f woaaah how did u use baybayin as ur username?
@@kakussubrado8966should be available as a keyboard for most OS.
Ian was upfront in a polite way. A celebrity simply saying “no” doesn’t mean they’re “rude” or an a-hole.
It's really sad that people chose to put him as some kind of a hole when he was literally the nicest he could have been.
He seemed rather tired as well tbh, also the girl just bawling after being told no seems like she has never heard the word in her life. Really hope she was just a young, clueless fan and grew from that experience.
i agree. that interaction was really polite and he was constantly reasserting that he appreciates their support. i don't know how anyone could see that and think it was rude.
I thought he was going about it in a nice way and a respectful way of knowing your boundaries
I used to live in China and I would have people take “low key” photos of me almost daily because I’m blonde and western looking. At first it was funny but very quickly it starting feeling like a safety issue because random middle aged men were taking my photo, not just kids. By the end of my time there I hated going out and I felt I was on constant alert because of this type of harassment. From experience, even as a nobody, it’s not cool.
This exact same thing happened to me in China. At first it was funny to be mistaken for a celebrity, but then it became creepy and weird.
Benn there, experienced that. It was weird!
I've seen people doing the same to asian or black people in my country. Maybe they never saw a foreign looking person in their lives, but that's not an excuse!
Same. I lived in China for years and this always used to happen. Like I’d be eating dinner in a restaurant minding my business or buying groceries and some random people would take pictures without my consent. That and sometimes people (usually older women) would touch my hair because it’s really curly. Ugh.
This happens a lot when I travel too because my eyes are very light and an unusual color and my skin is very very pale. It was a little weird and made me feel uncomfortable.
The pandemic made my interest in celebrities almost non existent. Their lives are so remote from our day to day lives. It made me focus more on the present and just surviving this pandemic. I do feel like there should be laws in place to protect to some degrees celebrities from paparazzis and stalkers. They deserve some privacy as well.
Yeah it was really interesting to see celebrities adjust to lockdown because they either 1) enjoyed the privacy and isolation or 2) had to figure out new ways to attract attention and keep themselves in the news. I think many of us realized what really matters to us and especially in the thick of it, celebrity news was far at the bottom of that list hahaha
I completely agree. My fascination with them has completely ended after seeing how celebs kept partying and escaping to islands. During the pandemic. I'm suprised anyone cares what they do anymore, I hate how intertwined social media and celebrity culture has become.
I've seen on TikTok girls reading "blind items" trying to out people that are *allegedly* closeted and THAT is a line that should never be crossed
not to mention blind items are mostly made up bullshit. I’ve seen many of the big bame blind item sites make up stuff after the fact to look like they ~knew things, to taking stuff directly from fan chatter and whipping up random stories for clicks. it’s gross and idk how this stuff is legal
blind items in general are all extremely invasive/controversial information and some ppl eat it up despite the fact that its all anonymous
oh yeah i've seen that so much on twitter as well, it's really weird and gross
Gosh that's disgusting
Is this about fluentlyfoward? Cause she gets most of her stuff from CDAN and that site has admitted to making shit up + is blatant qanon crap.
The lack of the account owner’s self-awareness is astounding
There is a certain thing in the Broadway community called "Stagedooring". The Stage Door is the door that leads to the backstage area and after a show a barricade will be set up and fans can go to the Stage Door and wait for their favorite Broadway actor to sign autographs and take pictures and what not. It is a completely free and optional thing but lately many fans have gotten mad when their favs don't Stage Door, calling them entitled and saying how they don't care for their fans, etc. I find that ironic because the ones who are actually entitled are the fans because they believe they are deserving of this when it is a totally free, completely optional thing and many actors have expressed many different reasons as to why they don't like to Stage Door (anxiety, safety, health, or they're just really tired). It sucks because it's such a cool thing that the Broadway community does and a few entitled fans could potentially ruin it for everyone.
Yeah we have a similar situation in the West End in London. Since Covid many theatres have said no stage dooring which makes perfect sense but of course there are the gaggle of fans who think that doesn't apply to them as they are more than 'just a fan'
wasn’t there a situation with ben platt? like he didn’t stage door and some person got super mad because he didn’t go out for pictures after hours of performing… like. i hate people who try to ruin such a great experience for fans because a performer they like didn’t give them the attention they feel entitled to
I remember it got REALLY crazy when Brandon Urie was in Kinky Boots for a time (a lot of stuff was) like fans overwhelming the barrier and being rowdy, and even booing when it wasn't Brandon that came out, like the other cast members, and crowding out people who had come for just the show
Granted I know at the time a lot of the people were kids who probably hadn't been to too many broadway shows and treated it more like a PATD concert, but still its basic human decency
@@gabrielleporter553 This was the exact situation I had in mind while writing my comment. The person made a whole twitter thread about it and called him garbage just because he didn't come out to greet them.
@Anjali I can see being disappointed, but it's really important where fans direct that disappointment. Like, you can be sad that something you were excited for didn't work out, but the moment you blame the performer, you cross a line.
I've been in stage performances (nothing nearly as taxing as Broadway), and there are a lot of us for whom, the moment you step off stage and can relax just a bit, exhaustion just hits you like a ton of bricks. The idea that anyone would get angry at someone for not coming out to personally visit with people AFTER THEY JUST PUT ON A SHOW FOR THEM just sounds so unempathetic, to the point of being cruel.
stalking is a huge 'thing' in the Kpop industry with saesaengs (=obsessive 'fans' who stalk their idols, and go as far as trying to get into their house, get on the same flight as them and worse. (yes, there is worse)) and it's honestly so sick & disturbing.
(just yesterday a saesaeng stalked Kim Taehyung from BTS and he even had to call them out for it and talked about how disgusted he felt)
People need to understand that celebrities are humans too and have BOUNDARIES that need to be respected.
Those sasaengs are crazy and I feel so sorry for the idols and other celebs. And next to the sasaengs there are those anti fans who might try to kill you because they are depressed. Like that one girl who poisoned TVXQ's Yunho by putting glue in the drink she gave to him. I really like Kpop and I've been to quite a few kpop concerts but no way I will camp at their hotel or something. I don't even care at which hotel they stay or when they arrive at the airport etc. Siwon from Super Junior once played a "catch me if you can" with his followers on Twitter when he was in Paris I believe. He would give clues and the fan who found him first would get a price. Few hours later he posted a pic with the winner. It was cute.
And baekhyun's antifan phone call?!? It's scary to think these things have happened to them multiple times before. You can love or hate an idol but you aren't entitled to a personal relationship with them or every little detail about them
Trying to remember who exactly it was (I *think* it may have been a TVXQ member) that kept receiving calls from sasaengs, so they changed their phone number, and not long after started receiving calls from the same sasaengs again cussing at them for changing their number
@@parurushi they poisoned him too 👁👄👁 like they literally poisoned him
so proud of V for standing up for himself.
The fact that sometimes the person taking the pic isn't even 100% sure it's a celebrity but they still take a picture of what could be just a random person going about their lives is INCREDIBLY creepy. At 7:50 you can see that the person who sent in the photo was like "I think this might be Timothee Chalamet" but like, it could have also been some random dude eating lunch. Putting the argument over whether or not famous people "deserve" to have pictures taken of them in public aside for the moment, having this culture where people surreptitiously take photos of people they don't know is a bad idea for the privacy of regular private citizens as well as any "public figures."
my thoughts exactly
Right, people will go up to people and ask “are you ___?” and it’s not even them. Yet the “fan” will be like “oh my god I love you/your work so much”, and maybe even cry.
As someone who is most definitely not a public figure, and has had the not at all unique experience of having unwanted photos taken of me just going about normal life.. yeah, lets not take unsolicited photos of strangers doing normal things, its majorly creepy and invasive.
Word
Had a dude photograph me at the beginning of the pandemic because I was wearing a mask, and gloves while I was out shopping. I'm vulnerable and have autoimmune issues. It was one of the most terrifying times of my life and I could tell the person was just going to put it on social media to make fun of me.
I loved that you mentioned Taylor because she said that she had some guy (a "fan") breaking into her NY apartment and sleeping in her bed. Fucking terrifying.
Ugh I would never feel safe anywhere again. That is absolutely horrifying
@@tiffanyferg she talks a lot about fame and dealing with the things you mentioned in the video in her netflix documentary Miss Americana, you should check it out!
Seeing low key pics of celebrities are very disturbing it feels like you are intruding on a sacred or intimate moment.
Imagine potentially being watched at any moment by anyone and potentially having that moment shared with the internet 🤢
not only that but then having everyone speculate about what's really happening in the photo with no context as if its a fact
It's my nightmare. And then everyone comments on how you're not wearing makeup, and may have gained a few pounds...😑
This makes me think, do I even really want to be a RUclipsr?
The entire gross hunt to find what Corpse Husband looks like also comes to mind. The guy has said multiple times he does not want to show his face and wants to keep that private, yet twitter keeps posting random pictures of people claiming it's him. Whether any of the pictures are him or not, it really does not matter. They are either violating the privacy of someone who does not want his face to be public, or just blasting a random person into the spotlight to have all kinds of insults thrown at them.
I find it very annoying when people ask their favorite RUclipsrs for a face reveal. They’ll do it in due time. What I find even more annoying is when I’m watching a content creator whose content is a little avatar of themselves like James from theodd1sout or Domics from Domic‘s Comics. They have an avatar to express who they are instead of actually showing their face, but it’s still not enough for these people.
Oh yeah and the doxxing Dream thing. It was just a random dude and twitter bullied the poor dude calling him fat ugly and all that...
i think this problem should be framed as "what does this behavior say about the fans?" rather than "is it ok to do this to a celeb?". don't get me wrong, obviously its bad & dehumanizing to stalk and harass celebs, but people have been saying this for years and the cycle still continues. i think for more change to happen, fans/stans should be encouraged to look inward. why do we feel the need to put someone on a pedestal? to track their every move? to take creepshots and learn every detail about them? i know when i did those things as a younger teen i was doing it to fill a hole. i did not get enough love and support in my life so i turned to these famous people on my phone to pour my affection into, hoping for something back. often communities/fanbases give that love back, & they enable these unhealthy coping mechanisms.
shaming people for consuming & contributing to celebrity gossip is definitely not the solution, but i think it's dangerous to act like there's nothing wrong with it either. tabloids prey on our monkey brains to keep us addicted to their content, and it's difficult to break free of it, but we still have the agency & self awareness to understand it harms ourselves AND celebs. imo this specific kind of addiction is not comparable to social media or any other substance because it HINGES on a person getting objectified on the other end.
This!!!!
Thank you for this! Analyzing fan and stan behavior would probably take hours of videos to cover hahaha but it would be deeply fascinating. I’ve never been a huge dedicated fan of anyone / anything so I can’t relate, but it is very illuminating to hear from people who have. Also the fact that so many super fans are young - there’s so much to explore about the psychology, especially in that their brains may not be fully formed yet, they may not have full understandings of the consequences of their actions, etc.
limerence
omg HUGE agree. when i was deeply engrained in stan culture to the point of probably violating my faves’ boundaries, it was during a time where i was very lonely, isolated, and depressed. all of my happiness and self worth was in my identity as a fan/stan. i slowly left stan culture when i gained a bigger support system in my real life and didn’t need it to fill that void anymore.
A SERMON
I remember Tom Hardy talking about how unsafe it feels to be walking down the street and then see strangers reach for their belt/pocket/purse and how he can't really distinguish if someone is reaching for their phone to take a picture or if they could be reaching for a gun/knife/etc. And how that fight or flight response and adrenaline kicks in naturally and that he never wants to be rude but a lot of "fans" lack perspective on how that situation looks from the outside
I have literally never thought about the gun and knives thing and I'm 32
I have no idea who most of the big celebrities are these days except for like a few big headliners or musicians, that video of Ian something?? telling his fans "please do not take pictures of me today" was actually a very civil way to go about it, it's unfortunate and pretty disrespectful that they didn't listen.
I felt bad for him, even the girl crying he was being guilt tripped into caving to them and the sad thing is EVEN if he would have taken pics and did everything they wanted they still wouldnt leave him alone afterwards.
To add more to it - in the video, behind him is his wife Nikki Reed (also an actress), so is it so unreasonable for a guy to say "Hey, me and my wife would love to have some privacy today, can you do that for us please?" I can totally understand him wanting to shelter himself and his partner from a scrutiny of his fans for one day.
Yeah, that video was really disturbing to see. Calls to mind a recurring theme in a story I read recently- "don't assume the one crying is always in the right." I think in general the optics of tears are finally being called into question- a situation needs to be examined in context, rather than all analysis being dropped because one person begins crying and stops the conversation. And I say this as someone who cries all the time!
He even made a point saying “i’m right in front on you”. lol yea you don’t gotta take a pic for a memory every time
@@keakoma7349 Yeah and touched her on the arm to reassure her too, surely that would mean more than a photo. But I guess maybe the social gratification of being able to prove the interaction to other people is what's coveted?
Know this isn’t what you usually talk about, but the situation with Kpop idols and sasaengs really fits this topic as well
the way it happened with V from BTS literally yesterday and he had to go on social media and drag them like
and the fact people still buy merch or go see photo exhibitions from fansites they KNOW are stalkers???
@@sheree._. as a jhope bias the fact that hopeeyes still is so popular….
@@salmaamin530 shit what happened? i'm off twitter for "studying" so i don't get any news, what was it this time?
That was the first thing I thought when I read the title of the video, ngl.
Very long comment incoming:
I'm from Germany and there is a law here that basically says you can't publish a picture/video of anyone without their consent - this is true for anyone, celebrity or not (because it's part of a person's right to privacy) but there are some exceptions regarding people of public interest/public figures. I'm not super familiar with laws and stuff but I'll try to explain how I understand it:
A public figure like Angela Merkel or other politicians (like you said in the video) cannot be fully granted this right because it is in conflict with freedom of the press. Especially if it's a "moment of contemporary history" or if the picture's informational value to the general public is more important it can be published without consent. Obviously that's not very cut and dry at all and a court would have to decide on a case-by-case basis but the main gist of it is: a politician doing something that totally opposes their public/political views is important to the general public and thus can also be published, but an actress having dinner at a restaurant isn't important for the general public to know about, so her right of privacy is deemed more valueable. For celebrities it generally seems like the rule of thumb is: their photograph can be published without consent if what is depicted is related to their job - i.e. actress at a movie premiere is okay, actress at aforementioned dinner is not. Now again, this gets tricky very quickly (especially with influencers I'd assume! Is them out vlogging okay to photograph and publish because it's part of their job? Is it okay to photograph them shopping at the mall if they are a fashion influencer and often do hauls? idk)
I'm pretty sure a few years ago a football (soccer) player who was on the German national team sued a magazine for publishing pictures of him on vacation with his gf (?) and got granted like 100k in indemnity/compensation that the magazine had to pay.
Another similar anecdote is how Heidi Klum (Project Runway, AGT, Germany's next Topmodel) deals with all of this. She's German but lives in the US (I think? either way she's well known in both countries) and so the fact that Germany has this law but the US doesn't gets very apparent with how she deals with photos being taken of her kids. She doesn't show her children's faces anywhere online and (because this law in Germany allows her to) has a legal team that consistently sues any (German) publication that shows her kids faces unpixelated (and German publications just don't even bother publishing photos of her kids because they know they'll get sued). Now, because she is also well-known in the US, US publications do sometimes publish pictures of her and her kids out and about and she can't do anything about it because the US doesn't have laws like that (afaik). Obviously with the internet I can just go and search for a US site and see pictures of her children. It seems like she doesn't sue when pictures of just her out and about are published but whether that's because she doesn't mind or there's no grounds for it idk
I find this really interesting because the internet is so American-centric and whenever there's a super invasive video of a celeb and someone criticizes the person taking the video, people will defend it as "they're in public, it's legal to record anyone in public and you have to expect it to be put online" and I think that's crazy because no... in my mind you shouldn't have to expect that and also, if the video were taken in Germany, that whole argument just would not work. Goes to show how (seemingly?) our sense of morality is influenced by legality (even though the two are not the same at all). Whenever someone goes viral without intending to, I always think that if I were them and this was happening in Germany, I'd feel super uncomfortable and honestly - call me a Karen - would probably sue. Especially if it wasn't your own post that went viral - like think "Alex from Target" (why was he the first to come to mind lmao) or "couchguy" on tiktok (at least couchguy was aware there was a video being uploaded i think but still, both situations seem super violating)...
disclaimers:
I tried to explain it how I know it and what a quick google search could tell me but I'm not an expert!
Some other countries might have similar laws but I only know about Germany because that's where I'm from!
The law only talks about publishing (!) pictures, so taking pictures of a celeb in public just to keep for yourself is legal (although I personally don't think it's moral either)
I think south africa introduced a new law that prohibited posting photos of children online without their parents' consent.
Thanks for the insight! I think that is a perfectly reasonable law
Thank you for all of this! I took a class on digital privacy and found that many European countries have much more strict / protective policies. The US has very very few restrictions, unfortunately.
Lol our privacy and personhood are up for grabs in the free market it seems
I always thought that Australia had similar laws, but I looked it up just now to see if I was right, and I was horrified to find out that we don't. Even children aren't exempt. That's absolutely sickening to me. I can only hope that this is a law that gets added in the future.
As someone who has had “lowkey” photos taken while going about doing my own thing (I was in the gym at the time and am plus size), it feels awful to have your privacy invaded in such a way. It feels so degrading that someone feels the need to take a photo of you without your permission and consent.
Oh my gosh that’s awful! I’m so sorry you had to go through that, I don’t understand why people can’t just leave people alone in public
The gym isn't a public space- it is a private business. If they were inside the building, then the gym is responsible. You should of complained to the gym. If you did, and they ignored you, then you should go public.
I shuddered reading this. I hope you never experience it again and the person who was taking photos of you got banned.
I know this is late, but why do people do this? I’ve seen this as a common thing, a plus size person gets their picture taken secretly for the person to make fun of them at the gym. They’re probably the same who tell plus size people to go to the gym, but when they do, they just get made fun of. Absolutely disgusting. I hope you’re okay now!
wow the creator of deuxmoi seems awful, she knows how terrible it is to be a public figure and she doesn't want to be one BUT she is the type of person who enables and encourages that toxic culture
I've just realised that as an adult, I much more appreciate watching/listening to celebrities talking about their crafts. An actor talking about a new film, a musician talking about a new album. But even then, it's difficult to find good interviews and interviewers, most ask one or two related questions and then it's all about personal lives and being "funny".
deuxmoi is fully aware how stressful the public eye can be - she just seemingly lacks empathy for other people in a similar position
Deuxmoi gives me corporation vibes. Remember when Tea Spill (I think that's their name) was first really HUGE and we all were like, "WHO is this?" Then later it came out that it's just run by a corporation trying to make that ad money lol. Deuxmoi might just be the exact same thing.
The channel is still going on! I did not watch them after the video D’anglo made exposing “them” and they are called spill and have clearly had a bit of a rebrand. I don’t even now did they ever talk about the fact it’s a corporation.
Also wish people wouldn't even try to take 'nonchalant' pictures of celebrities. They're always hypervigilant so they're too alert for a picture to be convincingly nonchalant, like the camera duels account demonstrates. People are absolutely not subtle around a celebrity and it can be exhausting to be afraid of one bad picture making you a meme. Even if it's a picture you're only sharing with your friends, the celeb being photographed can't tell. They're emotionally impacted as if it's something that could go viral, especially if they're managed badly or trapped in terrible contracts.
There are so many celebrities that turn out to be tied to abusive execs or family members hounding them to always look perfect later.
Reminds me of that photo someone took of Chole Grace Mortez in a restaurant that was dimly lit, and he forgot his flash was on. So the photo is her looking directly into the camera and that expression on her face is so sad like you can tell she does not appreciate having her dinner interrupted by a rando, but at the same times shes almost like "oh this again huh? I can't get a night off?"
Also, I just remembered listening to Miranda Crosgrove on a podcast talking about a stalker that got to her house and had all these tools to kill her. The idea of being followed in public and not flipping out after a situation like that is incomparable to me.
I've not been stalked (thankfully), but know people who have experienced mild (still awful) experiences with being stalked where they work. Its unnerving.
That’s so terrifying
This is basically doxxing. The location of these prominent figures is being blasted across the internet in real time.
and celebrities have been killed this way, like john lennon was killed by a "fan". in the uk a few years ago there was a presenter who i think killed herself partly because of media attention (though i dont know the full details)
the deuxmoi lady sounds extremely unhinged based on those buckwild answers of hers and, even though the page was fun to peruse for a while, I hope it gets shut down soon lmao. she doesn't need nor deserve to wield that much power over "celebrity gossip" if they simply refuse to comprehend the basic point of respecting a fellow human being's privacy.
it's one thing to know that a famous person's view on life and the way the world around them interacts with them is totally different from a regular person's, but it's another to expect/feel entitled for them to give their audience every single inch of themselves 24/7 365... it's just gross.
being a celebrity and wanting to be popular for the things you do or create doesn't mean that you aren't allowed to have a private life outside of the fame. it's just bullshit to say they don't.
EDIT: this just actually reminded me of that whole "Robin Williams Test Footage" horseshit from two days ago on twitter. if you want to see in plain terms what it means to fail to grasp so blatantly the differences between an artist's/celebrity's public persona and their private life, just look up all of those tweets and the way people have been harassing Zelda Williams about it. the timing couldn't be more perfect.
I don’t go on Twitter and thus had to look up the test thing. But omg wtf is with people? Why would you even think that someone would want to see Impersonations of their dead parent? Like, do people send Lisa Marie Presley Elvis impersonations? It’s morbid and weird as hell.
@@SS-xr7jf it was so vile to witness as it went down, and the fact that Zelda had to even address it in the first was so bad. it genuinely made me feel so sick to my stomach.
this is a painfully unrelated addition, but your comment was so beautifully written, I had to say it. with that being said, I 100% agree.
I’m not a celebrity, but I’m a dark skin Black person. Every time I travel outside the US, people ask for a photo and I always so no. Most times, they still take a “low key” photo and it is dehumanizing. People feel like they’re owed whatever they want when you’re in public smh
As someone who is a lighter skinned black person, and I can’t imagine how that must feel and the thought of people being so disrespectful to you like that, just because of your skin colour, is disgusting to me. I’m sorry you have to go through that I hope one day the world changes and becomes a better place, for any discriminated group of people.
What the fuck.
It’s so weird how stuff like a stan has become so normal now , do people really think being a STALKER fan is alright , there is something really wrong there
Ew that is! I always thought Stan was another word for fan..
"stan" has gone through semantic amelioration, the word no longer widely refers to overly obsessive or stalker fans even though those are its origins
@@Ashley-ro4xz it comes from and Eminem song. At the end the fan tries to murder him.
@I'm So Tired And they’ll take their every word as truth rather than opinion. They defend them when they ate wrong. Or they’ll defend them as if their life purpose is defend them and be their spokesperson.
Stan is a combination of stalker and fan like why would you ever want to be put under that category
Stalkers, in general, are just so creepy, or at least to me they truly are creepy to the core. By no means do hardcore obsessed or just crazy fans have the right to literally barge themselves right into a certain celebrity's/public figure's personal life. For me, that's a prime example of an invasion of privacy. And there's always a possibility that someone or somebody could get in trouble with the law for attempting to intrude.
erotomania
I didn't even know this IG was a thing 💀
After seeing all the damage of the tabloids in my lifetime, and also being a victim of stalking, I just can't understand how we haven't learned better by now. Like I fully understand people who "aim for fame" or however you want to put it are more accessible, but it doesn't take much for people to think about how it would affect them if people just randomly started capturing their worst moments and expecting them to be "on" all the time. It's some black mirror leaps that we do this. Oh, and the fact the person who runs the account wants protection and anonymity they don't allow for others is gross af to me. This isn't a little petty group chat, they've made it a business to profit off stripping privacy from others
I've thought about this a bit. I don't think human beings were cut out to be followed, pestered and photographed constantly. It's hard on the psyche. The person who runs this Instagram account as well as the person who left the comment "then they shouldn't go out in public" seem to be very shallow and not care or understand the damage this can do.
P.S. They both also seem a little bit... unintelligent.
I honestly don’t understand how these are even questions we have to discuss. Any celebrity, no matter what they are famous for, is still a human being. Any public figure, no matter their job, is still a human being. As a fellow bts fan rightly said: We buy their music/movies/content/art, not their existence. Know your limits.
Also, profiting from the intentional invasion of other people’s privacy and anonymity and safety while criticising people for trying to invade your own is hypocritical af.
Michael Hobbes from the pods "you're wrong about" and "maintenance phase" (both highly recommend) says fame is abuse and I agree 100%. It also freaks me out that so many people my age or younger set out to be influencers or content creators as a career... nothing sounds worse than turning myself into a commodity.
came here to say this! becoming a product is my worst fear.
from the diana episodes right?? loved those!
@@sarasaeed6349 yes!!!
@@maverickbull1909 yikes! just like trauma, addiction, or mental health issues, people can experience abuse across a whole spectrum of privilege.
@@maverickbull1909 I hope that one day people like you will stop viewing money, fame, and/or success as a ticket to paradise.
In my (very) small way, your segment on nonchalant pictures and people thinking you owe them your image really resonated with my own experience.
I dress 1940s everyday. I like my looks to be very period-accurate, so I guess that tends to stand out, but because I've been dressing this way for so long I don't notice it anymore.
I've had so many people taking pictures of me while I'm queuing at the shops, rummaging through my handbag, or just eating lunch. I've had cameras pointed at my face while I was passing by and people posing with me in the background.
Because something in the back of my head always fears people will assume I'm "b*tchy" or "vain" because I seemingly put so much effort into my appearance, I tend to compensate that by smiling a lot to people. When they do ask permission for a picture, I'm so relieved that they'd do the bare minimum (to ask) that I will agree to posing with them or posing for them even if I'm in a rush. Once I remember someone taking multiple pictures of me; when I said that I was feeling very uncomfortable, they replied "you can't dress like that and not expect people to want pictures of you". I was already tired and felt humiliated. (A lot to unpack here obviously. Demonisation of hyperfemininity, objectification, misogyny, confusing vintage style with vintage values, and of course a measure of pretty privilege turned sour sometimes.)
I'm by no means a celebrity, and I realise that it's not the biggest issue in the world of course. The irony in my case is that I'm not on social media, but many people have used my image on their own accounts. The few times I asked them to send me the pictures they took of me, they never did.
It's a very strange feeling, quite dehumanising. In a way, having an "alternative" appearance (using the term loosely in my case, really, I'm no one) somehow makes you part of the public space, like architecture. Because you stand out, people assume you owe them your image -- a part which, oddly enough, is in my opinion in common with that whole celebrity culture. It's odd. I don't know what my perspective is worth in this case, but I think social media has normalised it for people to treat other people as props for their accounts -- something that I can only imagine is even worse for actual celebrities.
This is a topic on its own really! There are SO many people that think you are looking for attention and that's why you dress the way you do. Hence, they are entitled to "give you that attention" by taking pictures or just ask unnesecary questions or stare at you. This has made me stop wearing what I want because I just cannot handle constant interaction with people that I never asked for.
@@Shirumoon It's sad, really. It's like as soon as you "stand out", you become public domain. For many reasons that would be worth exploring, people don't understand the concept of respecting someone's image. Stepping out of your house is like giving them permission somehow.
In my case I'm fortunate enough to live with my sister, who dresses the same way. She is a bit older than me, and less of a people-pleaser too, so she's very good at establishing boundaries and simply saying "no". That taught me a lot, and probably helped me to keep dressing the way I want because I can dodge better unwanted attention. Not everyone has that!
I hope you can wear again the things you like the most one day if you want to 💫
Thank you for sharing this! I’m sorry so many people don’t respect your boundaries or ask for consent. It’s so wild that people generally assume anyone who looks or acts interesting or different in some way loses any autonomy over their body or image. It’s so wrong!
@@tiffanyferg It's easy to forget that famous people, or people who stand out in any way, are humans too, it seems. Thank you for such an interesting video as always, and for taking the time to reply to my comment!
I was about to comment the same thing as another full-time vintage wearer. A few of my friends even got so sick of the 'sneaky' photos that they did just as cole sprouse and put their cameras up in return, I can confirm it makes the photogs very uncomfortable. But god it's exhausting especially being out w other vintage friends, just chilling, having drinks or a picnic, having randos sneak photos or interrupt to get a photo taken ://
Back when I used to do cosplays at conventions, it was pretty common for random people who liked your cosplay to ask for a picture. It was always emphasized in the space that you had to get permission from the cosplayer before you took a picture and harassing them for one was pretty frowned upon
yeah, i mean on my first time going to an anime convention, i knew without spoken rule that it should be the norm to get consent before taking pictures, and when the person said no or was otherwise preoccupied, we'd just leave them alone and not bother them any further.
same w furries. it is severely frowned upon to not ask before pics/hugging/whatever. esp bc with cosplay and fursuits, your hearing/vision can be limited! and you can break something if you aren't careful!
tbh I see a lot of similarities between fans stalking celebs/influencers and rape culture
In both cases, it's "well I treated you nicely, supported you, possibly made you more successful, so the least you could do is ____"
I think it'd be easier for people to understand influencer/celebrity boundaries if they saw it like if a 'nice guy' felt like he deserved ___ for being nice
The concept of "you're posting to the public so you shouldn't expect any privacy" feels similarly to victim-shaming in assaults. The common counter-arguments are "you've led them on", "what were you wearing", "how much did you drink", and while the person might've had *some* say in those factors (before being inebriated, they could've picked out what to wear, where to go, who to talk to, etc) it still doesn't justify them being violated (like well-known people having their privacy invaded).
It's just interesting to me how entitled some people feel when they feel like they've helped someone else, whether it be emotionally (aka 'nice guy') or career-wise (being a fan of someones' work)
I really like this comparison (maybe like is the wrong word), there's so many parallels with boundaries, consent and the coercive effect we feel when we're photographed/filmed without consent. It also reminds me of "upskirting".
That's such a good analogy. I've seen fans get so entitled because they feel like they GAVE a celeb a career so they should be indebted to their fans forever. That's whack?? Like no one FORCED you to like their music and buy their tickets??
I'm not sure of the best example for this, but in a situation where knowing the celebrity's lifestory enhances the experience of the art they create (like a singer who makes amazing heartbreak music), it should be up to the artist for how much of that background information they consent to providing us consumers. A peak into their life should be when they open the door and let us in, not from 2nd and 3rd hand speculations from massive media outlets and sneaky pictures from their private lives. Fame only requires that their name or art is recognized, not their daily lives.
Agreed! If they want to share that information they totally have the right
My mum is a journalist and so I guess I have a bit of a different view on the industry
In her office, the photographers only do paparazzi shots when the celebrity agents contact them to do so because it is important for their careers to be in the public eye and not be forgotten. I completely agree with not taking pictures of celebrities without consent but we must also see it from a PR perspective and it sometimes that’s all those are - staged photographs
Yes the PR angle is important too! Celebs def benefit from publicity and I think that’s fair, but yeah the consent is a major distinction!
Any type of journalism that consists on taking staged pictures of celebrities doing nothing is not journalism at all. Society doesn't need that, and entertainers have other PR options to manage their hype. Fame is a sick thing to chase and we the public should know better than to consume those type of photos.
Yes! So many people have no idea that celebrities these days usually call the paps on themselves to get publicity. The days of crazy paps chasing celebrities down are basically over
So Deuxmoi is the Gossip Girl reboot we have been waiting for?An anonymous poster publishes the secrets, regular coming and goings of privileged people. These tidbits are sent from regular people who are encouraged to photograph the evidence and are able to “interact” with the mysterious poster. Plus the whole intrigue of who the blogger is.
Wait? It's not the.lady in the video she posted at the beginning
Tiffany being Deuxmoi would be a 4D chess move we never saw coming
right!!
I think there’s an assumed truth when discussing this topic that’s actually false; I don’t think “private citizens” are granted that much privacy. I think we’re not interesting enough to film/photograph in public in normal circumstances. As soon as someone starts acting out in public everyone pulls their phones out and post it online!
🎯
yeah and it's gotten worse with tiktok. a lot of people these days absolutely see it as fine to take photos of strangers and post them online which is beyond creepy. youre not actually allowed to just exist in public anymore. constant survalience in a way even from your peers
I think most of this comes down to people who genuinely feel they’re owed something for their fandom. It might’ve been when I got into fan content, but I think fans these days need to understand that the things they put themselves owe them nothing.
Star Wars doesn’t love you, celebrities don’t love you, etc. I feel like it’s a necessary hard lesson that fans need to accept, that the only thing you can take away from the media you consume is the experience of being a fan in that. I feel that sometimes the vocal fans feel like their engagement with the media or celebrity should be rewarded.
Like would you be grateful for somebody documenting your life on a Instagram blog or Twitter account? No, you’d want to press charges.
This made me think of Taylor Swift. She used to be everywhere, the paparazzi was always at her door and we saw her picture everyday, she also used to post a lot about her life. After what happened in 2016 she made a conscious decision to disappear from the public eye and went to extremes to achieve it (being carried by her bodyguards in boxes, using huge umbrellas, etc.) and she stopped posting in social media except to promote her projects. But even if the general public didn't see her as often anymore, she has never stopped interacting with her fans. She writes them privately, donates to them when someone has had a tragedy, shows up at their wedding, babyshower, etc. and even sends them personalize boxes to their houses as a surprise. Overall she makes sure her fans know she's there for them.
Most fascinating to me are her "secret sessions" where her and her team "stalk" fans social media and hand pick 100s of fans and invite them to her different houses (LA, Nashville, Rhode Island, London, NYC) where she spends time with them, bakes them cookies and plays her new album before it comes out. Except one person, no one has ever revealed the secrets of what happens there or when it happened until Taylor herself makes it public.
She has created boundaries with the public and at the same time has reinforced her bond with her fans while maintaining a very private life.
The problem is that it takes practice to be “normal” and “natural” around celebrities, and most people don’t have enough experiences with famous people to learn that. What is a once in a lifetime moment for a fan-an embarrassment that was so short and therefore can be brushed off-becomes nonstop for the celebrity.
this! i straight-up become dumber around celebrities and it was a lot worse when i was growing up in my hometown bc they were such a rare sight
Got two comments here. The first is I live in SLC a quick 20-minute drive to Park City where the Sundance Film Festival happens every year. When Tiffany mentioning gameifying celebs it reminded me that a friend of mine would go up to Main Street during Sundance and just try to meet and get pics with as many celebs as possible. The second is a story and a reminder of how to treat celebs in the wild. I saw Misha Collins from Supernatural at a bar in San Diego during Comic-Con. The friends in my group ran over and got pictures, but I waited until he wasn't being bothered. I walked over and we had the following conversation:
Me: Hey, I'm really sorry to bother you, but I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate all the charity work you do.
Misha: That's so nice! [takes my hand] What is your name?
Me: My name is Kaitlyn.
Misha: [puts his other hand on top of mine] Kaitlyn, thank you.
And I walked away. My friends were jealous of my interaction yet I'm the one that didn't walk away with a picture. You can have some really amazing moments with these people if you treat them like people.
just wanted to say that I like reading the comments on tiffany's videos AS MUCH as watching the video itself. this community always has so many interesting takes on whatever tiffany is discussing, and I love reading aaaaall of it. never change guys ❤
yeah same everyone is really thoughtful
"Gameifying" is such an accurate term for all these fast tracks to dehuminisation that have become so normalised...
Also a weird thing about these forums: is when a famous person becomes "of the moment" and people take to these forums to basically hunt down any and all "crimes" that they may have committed. There's an almost glee in trying to bring the idol crashing down from the pedestal. I've even seen it argued that not being able to find any evidence of an actor doing anything shady is *proof* that he is even shadier than people that there are bad stories about!
I think everyone should just be satisfied with what famous people are willing to share and most of them do share quite a lot. Like if you want to know who Miley Cyrus is dating and what she likes to eat for breakfast and you find a interview where she says that, then that is fine, but if you see her with her SO in a hotel eating breakfast, you should have the courtesy to ignore her.
Even if someone is famous, I think privacy is a human right and I also think that it is important for once mental health that they are in control of how much one share about oneself.
You should definitely make a video about online sleuthing communities and true crime discussion blogs etc. It would be really interesting in the context of the Gabby Petito case with the spotlight being on them right now
honestly, the situation is so sad and made even sadder for the family that the whole world is 'allowed to participate' in the discoveries they are themselves making. Even serious publications sharing things about the cause of d**th really strike me as gross and invasive. Of course, I hope she and her family get some justice but I really doubt that thousands of people online rehashing every last detail of her passing will make a difference. Maybe there is one comment that could make a difference, it has happened in the past but for example, the headlines are so gruesome sometimes. I have completely stopped following updates.
At the end of the day acting and singing are jobs. A casual “I’m a fan of your work” is different than hunting people down and demanding pictures and info on their private lives.
I find the consent thing really interesting. I am not famous by any means, but I do mermaiding as a hobby and sometimes when I'm out swimming for my own enjoyment, I'll have people take pictures without even talking to me. I have had some people ask to take pictures with me, which I am usually happy to do, especially if it makes some little kid's day, but it is weird to just have people take pictures without saying anything to me
Yes! It’s strange that many people think it’s ok to take photos of strangers in public without consent - even when someone looks interesting or is doing something interesting, what gives you the right??
9/10 if you go up to a normal person doing something cool and ask in a kind, excited, but not weirdly excited way to take a picture they probably will
@@allana1997 *cough cough cosplay cough*
This is why I believe children’s bodily autonomy and boundaries are so important. People who refuse to allow public figures any boundaries and generally act as if they are entitled to them-I believe that mindset often comes from the individual having been refused boundaries themselves or having boundaries frequently violated in the past.
We tend to deny others what we deny ourselves or what we’ve _been denied_ by others. There are narcissists and people with conditions like borderline personality disorder and autism (I am autistic, so I’m very aware of this dynamic and not trying to judge or shame anyone) but generally, these are just typical people with their own traumas and that doesn’t make the invasiveness and entitlement any less pathological.
There was a study I read about that created a system, sort of a spectrum, of understanding “stan” behavior, with unique identifiers for discrete points. But it underlined that all stan behavior is inherently pathological and dysfunctional. And without any degrees or personal study to qualify it, I’d say I agree. It’s not healthy for anyone involved and there is no way that sort of violation could ever derive from a healthy place, no matter how well-meaning the person is.
I don’t think the average person realizes how dehumanizing it is to have no anonymity anymore. When you can’t blend into the crowd and lots of people around you watch you or want to touch you it is exhausting. You have to be “on” at all time, ready for some sort of interaction. I’ve been in this situation and have decided that if I ever see a famous person in a public, non work setting, I will studiously ignore them because they deserve to be able to live their lives without me watching them.
I have never heard of deuxmoi until today, but I don’t like following gossip accounts because they post too much and I don’t really care about most celebrities. I have always felt too embarrassed to ask a celebrity for a picture or take a picture of someone, unless it’s an official event where they are taking pictures with everyone one by one.
I feel strongly that paparazzi stalking is truly disturbing. The idea that someone is just constantly following you trying to get photos sounds like a nightmare. I thought people were grasping that seeing how that contributed to so many especially young female actors being vilified and their low moments used for fodder. How can you see 2007 Brittany photos and not see the mental health implications of being stalked like that? The idea of these pages like DM turning everyone into paps is pretty dangerous, because it will turn the levels up in a bad way.
I'm someone who follows deuxmoi and honestly one of my biggest issues with it is there are people who take literally everything posted on there as fact. When they've posted multiple things that were later confirmed wrong or were just flat out lies.
There was once where they posted something that was a flat out lie and someone called them out on it (that I saw on Twitter) and deuxmoi replied and was like "no I'm not deleting it because it's from one of my trusted sources". But it was a lie?? Since proven as a lie? Like it's ridiculous sometimes.
that’s the kind of shit that will get them sued one day, and their shitty disclaimer won’t be able to save them
not naming who it is but i remember when this certain comedian announced that he was expecting his first child (iykyk), someone sent in an obviously fake blind about how his ex wife was dating timothee chalamet not to mention the multiple fake blinds abt chris evans' alleged girlfriend who btw doesnt even exist!!! the way she doubled down so hard on the latter was so cringy to me sghdjfkgj
I'm curious. Why follow the account and not just the celebrities you're interested with on socials? That way you know they're sharing things that they are interested in sharing and isnt a violation of their privacy. And if they dont have socials they probably don't want to be on the internet.
@@smarterperson16 I remember that 😭 the instance I was referring to they implied that Florence Pugh and her boyfriend broke up or were taking a break and that he was seeing another woman, shared friend of the couple. Well her husband just passed a year or so ago and she's not looking to date and so it seemed really insensitive, plus Florence and her boyfriend are pretty clearly still together.
@@cutiepiemania45 curiosity I guess. But I completely understand your point!
I was basically stalked at a school camp by a fellow pupil. It was terrifying and stressful. I had no idea what he'd do next and everyone around me found it funny. We won an award for cutest couple.
I had a panic attack at one point.
I feel so much for celebrities and everyone else who is stalked.
this reminds me of those photos paparazzi took of Kim and Kanye having a personal conversation (most likely abt their divorce) in their car and I was just thinking like... can't we just leave them alone? like can we not intrude on celebrities private struggles and traumas? like come tf on
That was 1000% staged. The Kardashians regularly hire people to take their paparazzi photos.
Imagine having to go out looking great and red-carpet-worthy everytime you need to do something outside. Man that sounds tiring as hell, I could never lol
I remember in middle school E news was showing pap photos of someone (I WANT to say is was Orlando Bloom but I really can't rememe) take their trash cans to the curb. Like talking how they were barefoot and wearing sweats, its like, yeah??? They probably just got up, its their driveway, and you were waiting outside their house
This reminds of the whole problems people have with Camila cabello (not sure how her name is written) going out in normal workouts clothes, also Taylor Swift talked about how this impacted her eating disorder as she would always see pictures of herself plastered in media
One thing that you didn't mention is people who become famous when they're children or teens. When you look at Justin Beiber, Billie Eilish, Millie Bobbi Brown, for example, I don't think it's fair to say "they signed up for it". I see that with Justin Beiber a lot, especially because he is an adult now. But he was quite young when he blew up so did he ever truly "sign up" for it?
I agree with everything you said. Theres some times I don't feel sympathy for celebrities but this is a situation where I am, regardless if I like the celeb or not. They're humans, humans deserve privacy. They're not in a zoo for us to take pics of them and treat them like animals. I'd rather just tell a celebrity I like their hair or outfit and then leave them alone.
Papz are one thing but i hate it even more when fans don't realise they're part of the problem.
I'm a swiftie so i'm obviously part of a huge fan base with different types of people in it.
Taking taylor as an example, like plenty of female celebrities she's had her fair share of people sending her creepy mail, stalkers and especially has had her houses broken into a few times.
That been said, she has an appartement in NYC which front door directly leads onto the sidewalk, with no underground parking, that means she's forced to go through papz everytime she comes and goes.
Sure that happens to many celebrities but my point is that I specifically despise any 'fan' who stands outside that flat whenever she's in NY. Not only does she have papz waiting there, but ALSO fans standing SIDE BY SIDE with those leechers! Fans are the people who're supposed to love/ respect her, who know she has anxiety and has HAD STALKERS before etc.
Fans shouldn't do that. it's messed up how people don't realise celebrities are humans. Especially artists, they're not always looking for fame and exposure but appreciation for their art. It's not like 'personality' influencers (e.g. Kardashians, tiktokers etc.) who seek fame for clout.
I remember when I was into the kpop scene, I was a teenager, and I really loved interacting with many groups' work, and it was really fun to be part of a fandom where we enjoyed work together (i also didn't have much friends IRL for reasons outaide of my control). But even in the small, pretty respectful community I was part of, there were lots of times where I questioned the ethics of the way the fandom interacted with many performers. Reading wild fanfics about you did not consent to is already weird enough, but I remember hearing about sasaengs and stalkers and girls crying over a celebrity touching them or following them everywhere and crowding at the airport to see them and talking about how "omg that'a my boyfriend take that back!" And I was like "y'all.....I love them too but like....they are just people? They deserve respect and privacy and they dont owe you anything aside from art. Their labels definitely pimp them out for profit, but you should be better than that. If we truly love these artists, we should want them to feel safe and happy." It was extra funny when someone they were a big fan of was rumored to be dating someone, or truly was dating someone, and a fan would get all upset as if they ever even stood a chance with their fav YOUD ONT EVEN SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE SIS and communication is kiiiinda important for a relationship, you are half their age so probs not in their demographic, and YOU DONT EVEN TREAT OR RESPECT THEM AS A NORMAL PERSON WHICH IS KINDA WHAT PPL WANT IN A RELATIONSHIP.
Needless to say, I didn't last long there. And to this day, I still fall in love with new artists and new performers, but still truly dont give a fuck about what they are doing with their personal lives because honestly, if their lives are so interesting I HAVE to be all up in their ass being a nosy bitch, probably means I've got too much free time on my hands and my own life isnt very interesting, so I gotta spice it up so I don't feel the need to mind other ppl's business.
@@Pomagranite167 girl honestly. I need someone else to also talk about how freaking creepy fan fics are!
The Ian Somerholder clip reminded me of Taylor Swift fans… I am a massive Swiftie but the way hundreds of people just hang out of her NYC apartment is so wrong
And Ian was so nice to them. The karen who started crying was so ridiculous honestly. How old you, woman? Five??? you cry the second mom says no to a cookie you were never owed? Man, people embarassing themselves in public and for what?
I don't like the idea of lowkey pics of anyone. I have asked for a pic with a celeb that showed up in the most random of places. And they were kind enough to say yes but I would have been cool if they had said no cuz it's their time off. I sent it to my friends and family and that's about it. But I would never have snuck a pic of them because that feels creepy and wrong to me, let alone put them on blast. I apply the same common courtesies of cosplay photos to celeb pics: ask, respect the answer, and don't be handsy.
I think it’s very culturally dependent, I work in hospitality in New Zealand and plenary of American celebrities who would visit pre COVID we’re shocked to find most kiwis (especially those over about 25) just look, maybe wave, and then give space. Teens and younger people might ask for pictures but I’ve had people like MGK in my bar and only about 6 people over two hours went up to say “love your work” or ask for a photo. The hunting of celebrities overseas is terrifying
For some reason (just started the video so IDK if you happen to mention this) but in Silence of the Lambs, how Anthony Hopkins is standing at the beginning, someone made a post comparison to that, to how a lot of men celebrities stand on the red carpet
And come to find out the director told Hopkins that for this first meeting between Hannibal and Clarice, he needs to give the feeling of an animal being watched in a zoo and Hopkins went "Oh I can do that"
I agree that we just have to stop caring SO much. No celebrity is THAT interesting enough to stalk or harass a human-being. Deuxmoi creeps me out so much :/
I love pop culture media but I really don’t think it’s a great idea to post locations of these people in real time. What if someone was planning to hurt them & succeeded at doing so because they were able to pinpoint them on IG?
Also what if someone lurked around waiting for them to leave so they could follow them home? A lot of these people have children too.
the worst is, speaking of photographs, it's as simple as "if the person isn't looking at the camera, they didn't give their consent" almost all of the times.
And also, people forget that most celebrity's are famous as a consequence. It's not THE job, so expecting someone like a singer to "work" as a public figure when they're not on stage for example, is ridiculous
We’ve come a long way in a short amount of time, from the Britney harassment era, it’s still like that now but I don’t think as toxic or intense, partly due to the growth of social media where celebrities will throw shit out there themselves. It’s not as lucrative for paps to snap a picture when they’re plastering their ass willingly on Instagram.
I could be wrong cause I don’t follow any of this stuff to know much about its evolution. But I think it’s ridiculous to have an expectation to know every aspect of celebrity lives just because they live in a more public eye than most people. Humans aren’t meant to be dissected by that many eyes. It’s no wonder so many celebs have breakdowns and addictions.
Yeah I even read somewhere that Beyoncé for example post pictures on Instagram of her with dresses she’s gonna wear on red carpets at home bf the events. This piss off paparazzies bc it reduces the value of their pictures when the events in question come bc a lot of ppl already saw the dresses before then . I also don’t know/ not sure if it’s true bc I stopped following consistently celebrity gossiping for years …but anyways I find it interesting..
Deuxmoi will not let Nicholas Braun go anywhere. whenever I see a spotting of him or other Deuxmoi favorites I feel bad
Ive never seen that Ian Somerhalder clip before but damn I think he handled that VERY well and was extremely polite
Very interesting video!
Ian somerholders video broke my heart, as he is really respectful while setting boundaries. I don't understand how someone could think this was rude.
As a German law student, I can add that the constitution grants different spheres to the basic law of privacy: the social sphere, the private sphere and the intimate sphere. The more intimate a piece of information is, the less legal it is to share without consent. The more famous a person is(also historically speaking), the more invasive can a revealing information be. I like the idea of giving legal nuance to this topic, as it is really complex.
I find it especially funny that the creator of DeuxMoi wants no one to find out about them and wants their privacy respected when they literally based their entire concept around being Gossip Girl™️ in real life🤣🤣 the whole point of that show was for the audience to try to figure out who gossip girl was, so sorry deuxmoi, you are now apart of the very celebrity that everybody can exploit now, you created this🤣🤣
I live in NYC and have had creepy men blatantly take pictures of me on the train for their own personal consumption and it’s still super wrong. I don’t think it’s any better if you’re snapping a pic of a celebrity for “personal use”. I’ve also had a random person take a picture of me on the subway and make a whole Instagram account women with silver hair taking the subway characterizing us all as witches. It’s a weird feeling and the fact that it’s not illegal to take pics of people in public makes me very uneasy.
It is illegal in a lot of countries. You have the right to your own picture. Of course it’s not always easy to enforce yourself but it does help.
Please do make a video about the whole True Crime fandom/creators, It's so popularized at the moment but it also leaves you thinking how far is too far, like how much of knowing about a true crime story is okay if at the end of the day it's peoples lives and horrible situations they've had to go through
Yes!
Tmz realized their business model is symbiotic and they cannot annoy and tear down their meal ticket. As with most things under late-stage capitalism, doing the right thing needs to be incentivized by higher yields in profit.
Deuxmoi proves how creepy Gossip Girl actually was
My motto for putting parasocial relationships into perspective is "these are just people who you happen to know a lot about." I came here because I wanted to learn more about Deuxmoi, but now I'm leaving with how I think about John Mulaney and Hank Green. So someone on tiktok blew up because he said that John Mulaney and Olivia Munn were breaking up. Later on, he explained that he learned it from a blind item on Deuxmoi, so take it with a grain of salt, he just wanted attention and so on.
Why I'm thinking about Hank Green is that he is reacting in real time to the idea that he might be famous. Like, he used to be noticed by nerdfighters and people who watch crash course, and now he's Tiktok famous and freaking out that Ryan Reynolds follows him on Instagram. And you see fans react like "Hank, you are also famous." But you can tell that like, he's used to being known as an educational Internet Dude and John Green's brother. Or just straight up mistaken for John Green. Like, there are levels to this. I don't know, it's very interesting to see.
Already loving it just from the intro…
Don’t know what deuxmoi is, but I’ve always disliked gossip/paparazzi media of all kinds.
Hell, I don’t even like when people drive by a car accident, slow down and stare, causing those behind them to slam on their breaks, and slowing all of traffic needlessly. Unless you’re going to stop & help, mind your own business.
This applies to gossip about public figures, too. I can admit to having looked into some of this when I was younger. But it’s a choice. Let’s actively work to stop feeding off the drama of strangers’ lives. Even if it is in our newsfeed, we can say/mark the post stating we’re not interested.
Buddha's say focus on your bowl. It doesn't matter what the other person is 'eating'. Just delete social media for yourself
I find it so weird how entitled fans are in some countries. Here in Iceland celebs are 'one of us' and it is considered very rude and cringy to bother them in public. We also get a lot of famous people coming through for movie shots and usually it's tourists that keep bothering these celebs.
I worked for a company that had some 20+ US sales guys coming in for a meeting and of course they went to the Blue Lagoon and so happened that Clint Eastwood was there relaxing after a day of directing. I was mortified to see the sales guys line up to have their pictures taken with Clint _in his swimsuit_ trying to relax with his family and coworkers until he was driven out by literally hoards of Americans that _just would not_ leave him alone. To this day this whole scenario bothers me.
The whole celebrity obsession is very American. Even in Canada we have lots of actors come through Vancouver to film. It’s very frowned upon in Canada to treat celebrities from other countries with such disregard in public spaces, they are guests in our country. I remember hearing about Leo Dicaprio filming the Revenant and living in Calgary. You never saw paparazzi or fan photos of him there.
Yeah in Ireland celebrities aren’t really a big deal either
I was one of the people on instagram who answered yes to approving of paid paparazzi/taking photos of celebs, etc. However, after watching this video, you have definitely changed my mind. People are really creepy and celebs deserve privacy and not to be accosted for photos every second of their public lives.
This^^^ public figure does not equal public property.
Reminds me of the Olive Sipple story. They re-ran a segment on Radiolab this month about him. Super tragic case... he was a war vet and saved the president by grabbing the gun during an assassination attempt. He was a hero, then papers found out he was gay and outed him across the country. His family disowned him and he eventually committed suicide.
Your last point got me thinking about what if we made other random professions famous more often. Like a podiatrist going on a press tour because they just dropped a new orthotic shoe line