The New 8kW & 10kW Primo Fronius GEN24
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Mark and Dan from Fronius discuss the advantages of the new 8kW and 10kW Fronius GEN24 Primo inverter, plus one reason you may not want it for your home.
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Watch Mark’s Tesla vs BYD comparison: www.mce.solar/batteryreview
Learn about BYD Battery Sizing Guide: www.mce.solar/batteryguide
Maximise your solar consumption with a Catch Relay: www.mce.solar/hotwaterreview
Reconnect your GEN24 to WiFi: www.mce.solar/gen24wps
3:45 PV Point gives you power backup in a blackout without a battery
6:10 Upgrade your GEN24 to become a battery hybrid inverter with Fronius UP Software 
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Need to see some 15KW and 20KW Gen24s come to market.
Indeed!
I'm running a 20KW Snap inverter and want to swap it out for an equivalent sized hybrid inverter. Buying 2 x 10KW Gen24s and changing the panel wiring to suit is not feasible.
Any issues with dust ingress noting external fan
With the new 8kW GEN 24 Plus, can you adjust (via inverter settings) to at POWER EXPORT to above 5kW (say 8kW) with the model? Export limit in our region is 10kW. So, with 11kW of solar panels, there is still DC power from solar panels still going to the BYD battery pack on sunny afternoons.
great insights, thanks. If the grid goes down, can the Gen 24 plus 8kW primo inverter be programmed to work in Full Backup mode (off-grid) to supply (non PV point) backup circuits without any battery installed just from panels ? I have contradictory answers from two different users and I've been searching in Fronius' docs but can't find an answer.
Makes a lot more sense why my question on your other Gen24 video sat unanswered, you had this coming! Glad to see you testing it!
The 10's datasheet seems to imply it has a better efficiency curve at all voltages, and it doesn't de-rate as much at higher temps as the 6 does, have you seen that in your testing?
Also, I saw you'd already updated your battery sizing guide (that is being super on top of it) and wondered why the 8 and 10 Primo's can't do more than 7.7 HVS? And why they limit night-time discharging?
Thanks cryptic :) I am testing the 10 primo, but haven’t actually tested for de rating. That would be pretty hard to test. All the primo range just miss the voltage window of 4 stacks of batteries. The limitation on discharging Is on the battery for that one. With that voltage size of Byd, the discharge is only 6.7 max.
@@mcelectrical how does that work? Wouldn't they simply de-rate charging rate like the others do?
@@mcelectrical okay I just looked at the operating voltages on both, and I'm puzzled as to why the Primo 10kW has the same operating voltage at the 6kW of 150-450v? But more broadly, given the partnership between BYD and Fronius, the decision to run with an operating voltage on the 10.2 of 320-460v seems odd, I'm sure there's a good electrical reason for it, but it feels like a loss for customers who want the HVS and have to use a combiner box and go 2x7.7
@@mcelectricalhey Mark. Another great video, thanks! I really like Fronius, but have you seen the specs on the GE (GoodWe) single phase hybrid 10kW? Doesn’t have the 3 stack battery limitation and the backup circuit will do 43A even at night so could back up a power and a light circuit. Bypass switch on inverter means if the inverter dies the backup circuit just gets switched to grid.
“the important thing is, it’ll keep the beer in your fridge cold and the football on the telly”
Love it !!👌
PS - The Fronius software and wifi is no bother for us……
Our invertor is up on the roof and the router in a cupboard with 3 walls and 14m distance between them…..
Ha, I don’t even watch football unless it’s the Matilda’s or something equally as important. Wifi seems to be pretty reliable, glad it’s working for you!
I agree, active cooling is a must. However they are 25 years behind PCs !!! Heat sinc on CPU --> Fan attached to CPU ( where Fronius is now) --> water cooled CPU. Why not get together and introduce a standard so that excess heat (via water cooling) is sent to hot water heat pumps ? One is trying to get rid of excess heat and the other is trying to get as much as it can.
At times keeping it simple is best for the manufacturer as it simplifies their production line which in turns keeps operating costs down. While water cooling it may achieve the best result in terms of temperature, the added complexity probably isn’t worth it for installers & manufacturers alike for the very small percentage of customers that may agree with you and want to have a water cooled inverter.
I build custom water cooled PCs and I would avoid water cool system at all cost for a an inverter, the idea sounds cool but pump failing, leakage issue would be least of concerns, It would be a nightmare and as the gentlemen mentions here, more cost of installation for you too as there is more labor work both at installation end and manufacturing end. A fan failing is easier swapped than maintaing a water cooled system, gunk build up through your water etc etc.
Nice reply. Thanks
Great video, just a question around export limitation, suppose you have a 10 KW Gen24 and 13.3 panels and you are 1 KW export limited does that impact the electronics anywhere as well? as the inverter is trying to stop over generation and limiting the power?
Also Noticed you got new mics? they seem to be peaking abit might need to adjust that a bit to lower or put it a bit further away
Oh no! The sound. We’ve been working on it, using rode wireless go lapels as backup. Thanks for the feedback.
So, the question of where the electrons go with export limiting … it’s a weird one. Look up “IV curve” or current voltage curve. Think about it like driving down the highway at 100km/hour. Then drop into first gear and keep the revs high. You’ll use the same fuel, but it will be less efficient.
Hi Mark, Are you saying there is no physical difference between a Gen24 and a Gen24 Plus? What are the Fronius license costs to add a battery? and is PVpoint a complimentary feature or does it require a license as well?
Pv point is a bit more work, and a few extra parts supplied by an electrician. But gen24 plus is just a software upgrade. It costs about $900 or so.
Love your videos! I just ordered a Polestar 2 and am putting in 7kw solar system on my house here on Kangaroo Island. My solar guy - Yorke Solar - was recommending a Powerwall but I am thinking getting the BYD 11kwh HVM system instead coupled with the Fronius, which he does as well.
He has cheaper Tesla EV chargers that he plans to install but not sure if it would be better to go with the Wattpilot in the garage instead? I work from home so use a fair bit of power during the day and can charge the car during the day too.
It seems like you’re avoiding Tesla. Not sure why - it’s proven and easy.
True but beside that BYD is LFP battery chemistry, which has several advantages, also it's modular - just weighing everything up@@laurencejenner1127
Powerwall every day of the week
Yeh I’d go with the Wattpilot if you don’t drive a Tesla and you own a Fronius. I’m guessing you saw my video on ev charger and my Byd telsa comparison!
@@markcavanagh hey mark - yeah I watched your vids. I just ordered the updated Polestar 2. I really wanted to get a LFP battery system for the house but based on another discussion with the installer I am going with the Powerwall with the Fronius inverter and 7kw of Trina solar panels, in the garage I’ll use a Tesla charger he is supplying me that at a discount. My thinking was that given it’s just me and my usage is relatively low, I won’t be asking too much of the 13kwh and so it should last longer. Also with Tesla opening more superchargers, I’ll need the app anyway. The Powerwall compact shape also works better in my space and my solar guy is more comfortable setting it up than the BYD. You keep up the great work educating us noobs!
Hey is the 6kw symo gen24 currently available or are they out of stock? 8kw is a bit to much for us and 6kw seems prefect. Also do you know the rough cost of it? Is it drastically different to the 8kw gen 24? My other option is going with single phase primo gen 24, do you think it is possible to do a 6kw single phase inverter on a three phase household? (My power company has a 5kw inverter limit for single phase and 30kw inverter limit for 3 phase). With the gen 24 can I just limit the export in the hardware or will they totally not allow it and only allow a 5kw primo inverter for the single phase route.
Depending on your supplier, and what they pay for shipping, which can get pricey... It's $2300 for the Gen24 6.0 and $3100 for the Gen24 Plus. Primo Gen24 8.0/Plus is ~$2800 and $3600 approximately. Symo Gen24 Plus 6.0 and 8.0 is $3500 and $4000 respective. The Symo Gen24 Plus 8.0 could be $5-6k or more in your local installer's area.
I can't say what your local installer is paying, but suffice to say, there's a lot of shipping costs from EU. Fronius Snap to Gen24 is a 25% jump in price, Gen24 to Gen24+ is around 20% give or take.
You can do the math to work out approximate scaling/changes from euro pricing. There's a considerable bump of around $800 for the upgrade, so I'd also believe it's around $800 to $1k to upgrade via the registration 'webshop' on the solar.web portal, I believe it's based on their marketing prices.
Another great video from the best solar installer in Australia. I'm not too fussed about paying for software unlocking but it depends how much? I feel like Tesla screwed themselves by charging an absurd amount to unlock FSD. So my response to that would be - depends how much they want for it? BTW - is it only wifi or can you hardwire it to the network?
Thanks Mondo! It’s about $700. So it’s not cheap, but it works out to be what a hybrid inverter of that quality would cost in my opinion.
Is there any upgrade available from an existing 6kW Gen24 Primo to 8kW or 10kW?
Unfortunately not! But you could probably sell the 6kW easily on gumtree.
I want to see an off grid gen 24 upgrade.
Im still a bit confused, I did ask a Q in your other video but it wasn't answered. If i add a BYD battery to my Gen24 (and upgrade to Plus) will it power my house at night (until depleted) ... Or is the battery just used when grid has an outage?
Hi Paul, yes! Most people buy it so they can store their solar and use it at night. That is the basic function of all solar batteries. Fronius just have a really solid blackout function too.
I chose BYD batteries because they are DC and located on the owners side of the grid, whereas Tesla are AC so when the Grid goes down your solar will no longer charge your Tesla Battery. You will use the power in your Tesla one time and then done, and you will effectively be cut off from your solar aswell.. fingers crossed the power comes back on before it depletes. Where I am we can have blackouts for days, but my solar array will continue feeding my house and charging the BYD Batteries so the grid can go down for weeks and Im good. That was a big part of my decision
@@mysty0 That is not quite correct. It is true if you have a 3 phase inverter. If you have a single phase inverter it will continue to work and produce power to your Tesla Power Wall battery and to your home. How do I know? I have both a 3 phase inverter and a single phase. I see the downside of a BYD battery as needing a hybrid inverter whereas a Power Wall does not, most any inverterr will work with the Tesla battery. 🙂
Has there been any talk on why there are only 2 MPPTs? It seems that having 3 or 4 MPPTs with lower current limits gives more flexibility than having to do your triple parallel isolator solution.
Yeh, it increases parts, increases costs, reduces efficiencies and in most cases isn’t necessary. Their idea is it is a niche product. I agree.
Can the 10kW GEN24 Primo discharge double the power from a battery than a 5kW?
Short answer yes. Long answer, check out my sizing guide. www.mcelectrical.com.au/byd-solar-battery-guide/
I own a Growatt 3 time cheaper and it works more than fine .Thanks for this video
Growwat works ok. They are not really known for reliability. But yeh there a fair difference in price. You get what you pay for. I just recorded a video where I discuss the technical reasons that fronius is better. Production, safety, longevity etc.
I dont think a Fronius whil work 3 time longer than a Growatt @@mcelectrical
Quality is one thing, but you also have to look at the realities. Fronius is to Rolls Royce as Growatt is to Ford. I can afford a Ford, but would like an RR. The Ford will probably cost more over time ( replacement after failure) but for 10 years it (may) get me from A to B. BTW I'm seriously looking at the Fronius ;)
The ting is in 10 years its all old crap and the parts get in to the bin for new solar products .And getting a Fronius in europe is a crime Enjoy your Fronius @@AUBigwozza
What is the VOC of 6 Kw inverter and what price of 6 kw fronius gen 24 plus. And how to purchased it in india?
Single phase is a 600v inverter. I’m unsure about the Indian market price and availability.
I have two questions do these new inverters allow more power from the battery bank?
I think the previous inverters were Limited I currently use at 8.2 Fronius inverter
Question two I am a blind user and often used the Fronius live app to have my iPhone read out what is being generated from my solar array this app of course is now not available how can I get live output from my inverter in an audio accessible way
Hi Verne, the charge and discharge rate will depend both on the battery and the inverter. I made this video explaining it, and it’s also in blog format ruclips.net/video/lgwnzLvvaZI/видео.htmlsi=8bbnR-0hkt1rA9nA
Here is the blog www.mcelectrical.com.au/byd-solar-battery-guide/
Regarding the app, I’m unsure what you could do there sorry!
Can the fan be replaced with a Noctua fan to lower the noise level?
I’ve delayed my reply to this because I’ve been meaning to look into the fan you mentioned. But no. It’s a custom fit fan.
@@mcelectrical Thank you.
@@mcelectrical As they are both Austrian companies, they could collaborate to put a low noise fan on the inverter. If people need to work close to an inverter, such as having a home office in a garage, it would definitely bring noticeable difference.
So how does the the 10kw GEN24 compare to two 5kw systems?
10kW is much cheaper. Also fewer parts is better. Unless you need 2 for a weird design requirement, I’d go one if you had the option.
🎉
Hi mate, really need some advice here. Pallet of Fronius and BYD arrived today and I have 2x 5kw Gen24 inverters instead of 1x 10kw Gen24, apparently there are no 10kw Gen24's available atm? So the solar arrays are already on the roof and plumbed in. Each string volted for the max capacity of a 10kw, so the 5kw will be over volted. Im not savvy with electrics, is this going to be an issue?
Hi Mysty, there is a lot more info needed to give you an answer on this. Probably needs to be handed to the installer who is doing the job. What the spec of the panel, the orientation of the panels, and how they strung the panels. I’d say a 10kw will be readily available by end of the year if you get an order in.
@@mcelectrical so theyre supposedly the Jinko 440watt 54 cell panels, new ones you guys all recommending .. as we were expecting the 10kw there are two arrays (strings) on the roof, north and west. West got the full 6.6kw I believe but northward could have as many panels so came up with about 4.8kw facing north. I could be so wrong on these numbers but by my figuring that what I see going on.
So theres 6.6kw of panels facing west, and 4.8kw of panels facing north. 2 strings. So they're going to have to end up diving the strings in half for the 5kw inverters?
The 2x 5kw inverters are already arrived at my house. Should I insist on the 10kw? Is there pros and cons of 2x 5kw vs 1x 10kw inverter? I would guess the 2x 5kw would have built in redundancy should one fail?
Holes have already been drilled through brick, wiring has already been run for the one fronius inverter with the BYD parked next to it.. now we have this extra inverter we need to fit. Stressed out lol
Can’t this be used off grid?
No, in the warranty it can only be disconnected from the grid for 20 percent of its run time (or something like that).
Are the fans replaceable looks like the first thing to fail?
Yeh they are. But no I don’t think it will fail. We’ve installed about 4000 fronius snap inverters since 2015. These inverters have multiple smaller fans. We’ve replaced 12 fans over that period. So I’d call that reliable. These fans look so much more reliable than the old snap inverter fans.
Ya'll gotta dial in your audio. Mark's mic is clipping (hitting the upper threshold) hard every time you talk. You should lower the input quite a bit. Everyone's ears will thank you!
Noted!
Hybrid model only suits BYD battery...makes no sense.
Byd Batteries are Discontinued by the end of the year arnt they?
Yeh or an AC Coupled battery like Tesla, and get the standard Gen24. The advantage of supporting only one battery is development and support can focus on one set of updates, and one set of issues. They chose one battery to work with and do it properly.
@mcelectrical its just a bad investment.
It's almost scam worthy when comparing the time and size of investment.
Investment in panels and invertor @@jedbriimc9879..??? 👍
Investment in battery….???? 👎
I say avoid - Fronius software and app is garbage. Mine disconnects from my wifi several times a week, and the interface is poor compared with my brother in law’s Tesla app. Wish I had gone Powerwall over the BYD, which is heavy and takes several seconds to switch on after a grid outage.
Yep. Have to agree that Tesla has a better interface. But BYD has its own advantage, you should check out my comparison video, it might make you feel better about your choice :)
LFP is safer, longer lifespan and cheaper. Maybe Tesla has or will change chemistry to LFP.
The WiFi disconnection happens to mine as well, I found a quick workaround solution: when it happens, I just go to the inverter and enable the WiFi AP which is usually disabled, and then in a few seconds disable it again, after that the inverter will most likely reconnect to WiFi.
You are seriously biased for Fronius. Yes, comparing to all the Chinese brands, there is NO comparison, unless initial price is the pbjective. But SMA are the models to compare to.
For good reason though, Mark has rigorously tested Fronius against several other inverters including SMA, and he shares his findings here: ruclips.net/video/EtJMErVw7Kk/видео.html