@disciple duSeigneur it's called eating to survive. We have a choice to not eat meat and can still survive, even better with whole food plant based diet! We can survive with beans, veggies, seeds, nuts, grains, fruit, veg burgers etc. A sacrifice of self will always do us good. Jesus said ' I want mercy not (animal) sacrifice"
@disciple duSeigneur I have come to believe it is the opposite at work. The prince of darkness, the first murderer influenced humans to kill and eat God's creatures.
im a vegan christian. and id like to point out 2 things. being a vegan wont save man, as sin needs to be dealt with and veganism doesnt do this. and in todays day and age, we do not need meat and dairy to sustain a healthy body.
2 things: 1) Yes, veganism WILL save man because speciesism is the root of all hatred and discrimination. Man's perceived superiority over animals is because of vanity and pride. Pride is the beginning of sin. 2) Humans never needed meat and dairy to sustain a healthy body. It was always unhealthy and only done out of selfishness, greed and the evil desire to dominate the weaker, just like it still is today.
@@harveyplantharvester1502 Nope. God wants us to live sinlessly obeying His commands. Loving one another, taking care of one another, doing unto others as we would want done to us, avoiding sexual sins, etc etc etc. If you live life as a vegan, but you live in sin, you are not going to be with God. Live your life obediently to the commandments and following all the above, but you include meat in your diet, you will be close to Him.
@LION OF JUDAH JESUS CHRIST! According to Bible, Satan is the root cause of all evil. And his reason of rebellion was speciesism when he considered himself to be superior to Adam since he was an angel and Adam was man and refused to honour him. Isaiah 14 will be a good start on this subject.
@disciple duSeigneur Yes and I have never claimed that Isaiah 14 speaks anything about speciesism at the part of Satan. But it talks about Satan's fall in Isaiah 14:12-15 and therefore I forwarded it as a beginning point for the other person. Regarding Satan's reason for rebellion being speciesm it is from the Quran chapter 7. And I was new into Christian study at that time and hence made the mistake of accepting Quran's authority. And hence I take back my statement there. But the rest of my argument remains the same. And regarding paganism and veganism, my point remains. I have already shared with you that paganism is against Veganism. But it seems that you are not here to learn and teach but to accuse.
My question is for the slaughterhouse worker who has to slice the throats of cows,chickens or pigs all day long 6 days a week because the demand for meat is so high. The slaughterhouse worker eventually suffers from PTSD. Slaughterhouse workers have seen cows cry,pigs scream etc. How should we handle that in Gods eyes.
I say pray for them regardless. If that is that person's only income for their family or if they are using it as a means to support a Church pray for them. Maybe many are not in that situation but there are many a people that may have faith in Christ but have to deal with constant sin in their job and may know there isn't other opportunities to get money. I work in a space constantly surrounded by sin and always question my job as well. I can use prayer too. But the only prayer I pray is for God's will to be done, for the forgiveness of sin, for protection for sin, and for Jesus to come soon.
@@gaborszadai1992 the world is an evil place my friend. In heaven there will be no need for slaughter houses like these. No hunger, no killing, no disease. I myself have taken more a pescatarian diet of high quality fruits and vegetables and fish like sardines and tuna. Inhumane killing is inhumane. God did give us animals and plants to eat but not to abuse especially for profit. God help us.
@disciple duSeigneur lol it's really funny that you believe that to be the characteristics of God 😂... cognitive dissonance is a real thing and it's a problem most religious people have.
I think you make a very good point Maria! As Christians, we should do what the Bible says, and the Bible tells us that we should not cause animals needless pain. That is why instead of people campaigning for veganism, we should have people trying to find painless ways to kill animals.
I believe the issues of the meat industry definitely need to be considered here. These industries are having a profound affect on the livelihoods of everyone on the planet. Veganism is not simply a matter of clean or unclean foods, but it is a matter of loving one's neighbor and being a good steward of God's blessings. Do we have the right to abuse animals? Do we have the right to abuse the environment? I think these are good questions to consider when exploring this topic.
Yep. God definitely designed creatures to be beautiful and sentient and feel pain and suffer SOLELY for the purpose of you killing them for fun. Yep. That's God alright. What a guy! ;)
The industry now cannot even compare to back then. They caught fish. We have these giant industries wiping out species and it’s not sustainable. It’s hurting our planet more than people realize. I gave up meat because of this (taking dominion and filling the earth with goodness and just looking at it in a wise way) not because I think meat is directly a sin. I think we need to be made more away- exactly what you’re saying. We need to look at this in context to how we get our meat and why damages it’s doing to the world. They never had this kind of problem in biblical days.
@@futureman420 ???? No God would murder his children and certainly would not EAT them, how disgusting. However the great flood was created because of the wickedness started by the fallen angels who mated with human women to create the Nephilim, corrupting humans by teaching us to eat flesh and blood. Humans are anatomically herbivores. We have large molars for eating plants, when we eat flesh and blood it rots in our body and causes multiple diseases and stinks. The more flesh humans eat, the more we pollute our body and mind. Countries citizens that eat the most flesh have the highest rates of heart disease, cancer, and colon cancer. Countries citizens who consume the most dairy have the highest rates of fractures and breast cancer. True carnivore and omnivore animals can kill prey with their knife teeth and claws, they have short intestines, they do not get heart disease, diabetes, or cancer. Enlarge this comparative anatomy chart found on mangodurian.blogspot.com/2015/08/heres-wonderful-chart-showing-our.html Mango durian dot blogspot dot com...cheers.
How can we talk about love, compassion, mercy, when we have our hands dirty with the blood of innocent beings who were created with feelings like ours, who feel fear, pleasure, pain, despair, etc., how does everyone here also feel? If that's how God wants men to act, I don't even want to imagine what the devil wants.
@@philipodetola6 now its a new generation, tourchuring and killing animals just for u selfish or ignorant humans to eat is just not right, killing someone against their own will is a sin, the animals cry of pain when getting killed, they shake cuz they hear the screams of other animals, and scared of confusion, animals are so innocent and voiceless and i am gonna be their voice for the rest of my life cuz i feel deep sympathy for them
@@alexandracorona9926 animals arent incident they kill and rape each other if u want to be vegetarian fine but don't try to bring morals into something when you clearly benefit from it such as B12 and the phone or device you use today(child labour)
@@deondresealy7764 lol they are animals, as we are humans we have more intellegance and im not forcing down any morals on anyone lol😌😴im just saying what i believe in
A few common answers: -To test us -God simply doesnt care, would a human who creates an AI care if another AI they created kill one another? -God doesn't exist, we were created by chance
Simple, god created everything with purpose, he created animals for companionship like dog cats, etc, and he created animals for nourishment for us since we are made in his image, and animals are not, and since he is the creator of everything including us, he does as he pleases with his creation and the same way my own life dont belongs to me but him, the animals lifes belongs to him ass well and they are his to give to us for nourishment the same way he blesses us with all other things, like a roof over our heads, s bed to sleep on, a Job to provide to our families, but like the pastor said, let's not meat eaters despise vegans, and you vegans dont pass Judgment on meat eaters, cause also our Lord said, it's not what enters the human mouth that defiles a person for all this goes to the latrines, but what comes out of our mouth what we speak from our hearts can be ill and harmful, or words of love and blessings.
@@marcellopuerta1125 your answer doesn't make any sense nor does it answer the question, the OP asked why did God give them feelings if they were not meant to be slaughtered, and you say "simple, because they were created for nourishment" , moreover, humans have selectively bred animals and that outcome has resulted in domesticated animals like dogs, cats etc, weaker wolves who couldn't hunt, would eat scrap food given to them by humans and eventually stay with them, breeding these animals resulted in the dogs we see today, same for cats. God doesn't give us a fkn job or roof over our head, humans make jobs and build houses, it was our own innovation. So tell me since you seem to know God on a one to one basis, why are so many Christ accepting people in Africa, homeless and dying of starvation?
@@LokeshThakur oh yes he does give us those things cause the bible says, not even a leaf fall from a tree whitout God's consent, he provides for me and my family in many ways and I owe everything I have and I dont deserve to him, as he has given to me he can take away, and if you going to come up with the old "oh if God is good why are they children starving in Africa" approach, it's not God fault and no one states that being Christian is going to be an easy task but they will have the ultimate reward at the end which is a everlasting life of peace and love in our Fathers presence, and what happens in Africa or anywhere in our world is not God's fault is the mans fault full of hatred and evil in their heart because they lack God in their lives and since satan is the ruler of this world bad things happened and he has legions of demons and strong demons at his command attacking a nation, to confuse and lie and make people doubt Gods love an Mercy, to make people believe we can be self sufficient without God which is the devil's ultimate lie, to turn people away from God, blessing for those people in Africa may be and end of this temporary life to live an eternity of happiness we dont know why God does everything he does, but we do know he does them for our own good as a Just and loving father, even though some times we dont see it as fair in our eyes or understanding he is God the beginning and the end, so we obey as our children obey us even though they see their parents unjust or unfair at the moment for something they want but later on they will recognized they parents did it for their best interest and to avoid them to suffer for a mistake, well God is the same Way, and I don't really care If you think my answer doesn't make sense, for me veganism doesn't make sense it's just a matter of different point of views and opinions so we should live and let live
And how come the vegetarian is being called the weak person? When the results of the Daniël test was a healthier appareance... Daniël 1:13,15- Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food.
Barbara O, it is my understanding that the weakness referred to in that passage is of faith, not physical weakness. Romans 14:1-3 (NLT) "Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them."
they ate vegitarian food because the meat feel out side what allowed according to jewish custom and traditions hence chose to eat veg instead of breaking God ordinance , they where even required to be circumcised , we are notrequired to keep such ordinance because we are rightious by faith sister do you know there was a world leader who loved animals, a pure vegan puting vegetarians to shame , only world leader to ban animal testing, animal exploitation, etc he was also nominated for the noble peace price in 1939 for all his Good works , his name was Adolf Hitler many top ss officials where vegans and we all know what was really in his heart which was manifestated to the whole world just one year later ,dear bro/sis our lord was right in saying this Mark 7:15 "It's not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart." Matthew 15:11 "It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth." Jesus only told us that if you love me obey God's camandments ie love your lord your God with all your heart and soul and loves your neighbours and enemies as your self.
@@jesuslovesmegalatians2205 I thought Hitler was vegetarian but in fact Hitler ate pigeon. It is well documented that he had cooks prepare it for him as it was his favorite foods. BiteSizeVegan has a great video on it and she sites her research along with her findings.
@@kirogurl it was true only until 1939 , after which he became a pure vegetarian, even though there was a great shortage of vegetables during the war he was always served the finest vegetarian food . It was during this period he committed most of his heinous crimes . Even if he was not vegetarian let's assume for sake of argument ,still there many vegetarian hindutva groups in gujarat that lynched and killed thousands of innocent muslims, even today the cow protection groups in India how mercilessly lynch people suspected of consuming beef are all Pure vegetarian . There is no link between ones charector and what they chose to eat . Christ served fish and bread to his disciples and those who came to attend his sermons had it been a sin he would have never encouraged it .
God is Love ... Being compassionate to animals is beautiful. One of the fruits of the spirit is Kindness and Gentleness So when we view animals we should view animals in love. We should not only be willingly to eat fruits and vegetables but also forsake our lives for the sake of our brothers and sisters. Loving one another is all its required in this life. God is beautiful. Everything that He has done is perfect. He is the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning the End. God is light. We should also pursue love never striving about what another brother eat but lifting and edifying one another in love.
Peter's vision in Acts 10 had nothing to do with food and certainly not with changing God's dietary restrictions. God changes not. The vision was to show Peter that the Gentiles were to recieve the gospel.
Brother I would disagree with you on this, but lest I cast a stumbling stone before you, understand what one eats is not a salvational issue, but rather an obedience unto sanctification. Therefore we examine the verses mentioned: 1 Cor. 10:24 is about eating things offered in sacrifice to devils. Gentile converts are warned not to partake of eating that which had been offered to false gods as the first baby steps towards walking with Christ. See Acts 15 and Acts 21. Paul's point here is not to go around in the meat market inquiring where the meat came from or for conscience sake causing a brother to stumble by openly and knowing eating such. This entire section of scripture is a call to flee idolatry, not a changing of Gods Laws regarding foods acceptable to be eaten. Mark 7:19 Is about Jesus teaching that the rabbinic doctrine of eating with unwashed hands makes one unclean, which is a false man made doctrine. What makes a man unclean, in a deeper spiritual sense, is what comes from his heart and not what enters his stomach. See parallel verse in Matt. 15:17. The verse in Mark is difficult to discern as many translations have added to the word, so I would urge you to check it out in a interlinear to see what was actually written. I think you will find that there is no changing of Gods Laws here. Romans 14 is about fasting and not judging those who do or don't fast on a given day, or what they eat or don't eat during such days. Let everyone of us be fully persuaded in our own minds for we shall all give an account of our lives before Christ. If you feel this verse gives you freedom to eat that which God has deemed unclean and not food then do so with a good conscience. However I would urge you to carefully consider Peter's warning that Paul's letters can be difficult to understand and are often twisted to justify the error of lawlessness. 2 Peter 3:15 Ought we not as Christ's disciples to walk as he did ? 1John 2:6. Have heaven and earth passed away ? Matt. 5:18 Pick up your cross and follow him brother and great shall be your reward. Peace
Incorrect, cause in that same verse, God spoke to Peter and said: "go kill and eat" and Peter refused 3 times (again) to eat what was deemed unclean, and Our Lord God himself responded:don't call what I have created unclean, all foods are declared Clean when blessed by the lord, I'm very scared that you dont realize that the Bible itself warns in the last days of false prophets and deceivers, constructing web of Lies, why don't you go do some research of ex vegans who quit after following the perfect Vegan Diets for years, admitted how they were feeling Chronic Fatigue, hair loss, premature aging, tooth rot and decay, nearing anorexia,strokes, skin problems, gastric problems, mental Fogness, not able to complete full sentences, early menopause on young women dont having periods for 6 months straight, lower sperm count, erectile disfunction, etc, as Cristians dont we be believe that if something is from the Lord it comes with blessing and good things, not damage to our selves which we are made in his image, and then this earthling Ed, a vegan spokesperson and promoter that vegans are calling him "the vegan Jesus, that he looks like Jesus, that he is Jesus who came back to show the world we have to be Vegan, please tell me in your hearts how you deem this ok? You know were that is going to, open your eyes and pray to the Lord for wisdom and Discernment.
@@marcellopuerta1125 that was the whole purpose of the vision. do you not know what a vision is? it wasn't literal. the message was, take the gospel to the "unclean". don't consider them unclean if God calls them clean.
I’m a Christian Vegan and this is a fairly good response. I think there is more that could be said about the pre-fall not being the ideal picture for our food consumption, but that rather it is after Christ’s resurrection is the ideal picture, not super convinced. Regardless Piper’s use of Paul’s theology on food is a very good point that I can’t argue against. Piper is right that the Bible isn’t really concerned with what you eat as much as it’s concerned with your heart, and both vegans and meat eaters that wield the Bible as a tool to “slay” their opponents are in danger of that two edged sword falling on themselves. Whether you eat or drink, to God be the glory!
Andrew Arrington ... I want to point something out for all vegan Christians to consider: we do NOT live in a pre-fall world. Our natural environment isn't perfect or pristine as a result of the fall and THOUSANDS of years of decay. Our environment is "groaning", correct?? Because of this, humanity will never be able to meet its nutritional needs through a strictly plant based diet (without heavy supplementation).
dear brother/ sister do you know there was a world leader who loved animals, a pure vegan puting vegetarians to shame , only world leader to ban animal testing, animal exploitation, etc he was also nominated for the noble peace price in 1939 for all his Good works , his name was Adolf Hitler and we all know what was really in his heart which was manifestated to the whole world just one year later ,dear bro/sis our lord was right in saying this Mark 7:15 "It's not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart." Matthew 15:11 "It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth." Jesus only told us that if you love me obey God's camandments ie love your lord your God with all your heart and soul and loves your neighbours and enemies as your self.
@@RealmWalker during the war years, he transitions into vegetarianism if you go by eye witness testimony as far 1938 he had a vegetarian diet. There are many more sources that show that he was vegetarian in the latter part of his life Adolf Hitler and vegetarianism - Wikipedia en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Adolf...
Yep, in Genesis God commanded mankind and animals eat the fruit and seeds of the ground🙏 and the descriptions of Heaven are vegan: ‘The lion will eat grass with the lamb.’
@Nath Krishna Luke 24:42-43 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence. (this is the first thing he ate after being resurrected!) He also ate lamb as a law-abiding Jew! See Mark 14:12-21
@@moosestubbings1853 exactly. It has nothing to if clogs heart God dint want it. Jesus said it's not what go in your mouth and expelled out your body what defies you, but what could out of it. Plus this video proves we are meat in eden. ruclips.net/video/oSBNSxicMgc/видео.html
Veganism is not about what one eats, it’s about committing, causing, or paying for the murder or exploitation of a sentient being who has the capacity for love but is condemned to feel pain and suffering. “What one eats” is simply straw-manning the vegan position. You claim that peace and love is what is important, but that is the entire vegan position. Is there peace and love in a slaughterhouse? I don’t think these guys recognize the dynamics of supply and demand for animal products and what must occur to bring a piece of meat to their plates. Because if they did, they would have a much tougher time defending needless brutal throat-slitting than defending “what one eats.”
@Come Out Of Her My People friend, you must be careful how you conduct yourself to the world. Christ doesn't want us quarreling with people like this, especially over something simple like what to eat and not eat. Remember the weightier matters of the law, of such love is the chief law. Our Lord said the whole law hangs on two commandments, see that you obey them over the old law, because in doing so, you will truly be obedient to the old law by God's Grace. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself. Love is gentle, patient, kind, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, and covers a multitude of sins. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3:17-18) Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God (Matthew 5:9) Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. You must know that these people are not being built up by what you're doing, but rather the Name of Christ is being misrepresented. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. See that you abide in Christ and His Words so that you may bear much fruit. Apart from Him you can do nothing, even if you're trying to use His Word to do it. Grace and mercy and peace be to you in the name of Jesus
@Come Out Of Her My People "Tell that to a God who demanded animal sacrifices. Tell that to Jesus who ate fish and passover lamb. Your New Age beliefs do not align with holy scripture." 1. Yes, THEN it was necessary to make them (Adam and Eve) garments of skins in order to clothe them by His Truth. But NOW you kill animals unnecessarily just for fun, just for joy, not for surviving. THEN the Lord obviously killed two animals to show them an example that they should kill animals for sacrificing, too: those offered animals would anticipate the Savior. But NOW we know that "it was not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins", NOW we have to kill animals not any longer, for "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" and by (t)his "offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sacrificed". 2. Yes, THEN the Lord ordered to that primitive, nomadic, stiffhearted people in the wilderness that they should eat the flesh of the passover lamb up, but NOW we know that "our Passover Lamb (i.e. Christ) has been sacrificed for us". So good news: we don't need to live NOW just they did in the Bronze Age. 3. Yes. THEN Jesus ate meat or rather the circumstances forced Him to suffer eating meat. Your circumstances don't force you to kill sentient, innocent creatures, you kill them unnecessarily, although you could easily and abundantly eat something else in a more cruelty-free way without converting to "New Age", bro...
What a beautiful and loving explanation of what really matters to God - His people!! I'm a whole food plant based vegan because it makes me feel great! I would never want my dietary choice to cause another to stumble, though. I'd rather that person see the love of God within me rather than what I put in my mouth :)
@@nikhefe16 Hi :-) Yes, of course!! What I meant was I'd rather talk of the love of Jesus & encourage each other. Sometimes our food choices can cause division. I'd rather enjoy the company of the person I'm with, in unity, rather than debate which diet is best. I hope that helps! Have a blessed day :)
@@diannafinewood2639 think one can share why one chooses to eat a vegan whole food diet in a kind and loving way. Just like anything, it’s usually the other getting defensive that causes the strife. That’s when , I feel to stop the conversation or change course. People refuse to acknowledge the food they eat is not only bad for them but it came on their plate as a result of life long torture of animal.
Catholic and vegan here. 2 years Catholic. 5 years vegan. Christian my whole life. I'm so grateful for this path. It all seems so clear to me now and I want to help shine the light for others.
There have been a few Christian vegetarians, such as Fred Rogers or Albert Schweitzer. But overall it's been a very small minority. As a teenager I was a vegetarian and a Christian.
I DONT BELIEVE THAT JESUS WOULD APPROVE OR BLESS WHAT WE ARE DOING TO HIS BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS INSIDE THE SLAUGHTER HOUSES...I HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE IN HARMONY WITH ALL OF THE ANIMALS N MAMMELS....WE CAN BE HEALTHY WITHOUT KILLING N EXPLOITING ANIMALS N THEIR BABIES...❤
I'm disappointed Pastor John. Everything I've heard you preach on so far rings truth for me and you usually give your perspective or interpretation of the bible as it speaks to you , but on this topic you solely quoted only a few selected passages from the bible and did not seem to reflect on this more. Yes the most important message here is of 'love', so why not reflect on that further...look into the meat , dairy, fish, egg, leather industries etc and ask 'would Jesus be a part of these industries in today's world' and where is the "love" regarding these industries where animals are bred into existence purely to be used and abused out of greed not need. Judge not another for what he eats but we will all be held accountable for every act that is not in accordance with love and compassion. To be vegan is loving God, is for God and has nothing to do with diet. Love. And 'yes' to not kill, harm or wear an animal if you don't need to is closer to God's original design.
Dan LOL that's like telling a rapist to go ahead and rape children as long as he gives thanks first. Cruel farming methods? It's all cruel, stealing babies from mother cows happens on "local" farms and they all end up at the slaughterhouse. Stop defending your own addiction to flesh unless you like worshipping the devil.
Yes! And furthermore, if animals were to be for food, why would God instill them with sentience and the ability to feel love when they’re supposed to be met with pain?
Have you ever seen a video of a slaughterhouse? It was a very different time then, cows were not artificially inseminated just to have babies torn away from them as the mothers cry in mourning so that their babies can be veal for people to buy. We have taken "dominion" over the animals (Genesis 1) and used to to be a power-demanding corrupt money-making meat industry.
Children of God are blessed with the ability to mercilessly kill at will for gluttony and pleasure. How cool is that! I want to be a Christian! I just wish I could slit an animals throat with my bare hands because that's what you need to do to be Christian.
@@ethanbolen4425 Jesus is the Tree of Life. Besides, even if there is eating in heaven, this isn't heaven. The bible declares all food is clean and you are not to judge another for what they eat.
@@tabandken8562 The Bible says that, but it’s Paul that says this, but God says fruits , vegetables and seeds will be your nutrition. So, who should We believe God or Paul?
@@jmm3688 God and Paul was inspired by God. God commanded to eat meat. Jesus is God and ate meat and commanded Peter to eat meat. Jesus gave the parable of the prodigal son which included celebrating with the fattened calf, something He wouldn't include in a parable if meat was to be forbidden. Sorry, you're wrong.
Paul’s argument in Romans wasn’t about meat vs vegan. It was about meat sacrificed to pagan gods. Paul Leboutillier from Calvary Chapel has a great sermon on this.
Correct, in Romans chapter 14, the author (presumably Paul), was talking about the sensitivity of newly converted Christians (who were once Pagan), to eating meat and dead flesh from animals who were being sacrificed to idols by other Pagans and Polytheists in the city, because they still saw it as "blasphemous" since they still had residual Polytheistic beliefs. Paul was talking about the animal parts leftover from bulls and cows and goats and chickens and sheep that were being sacrificed to IDOLS, it had nothing to do with the ethical treatment of animals, which wasn't even an issue in first century Palestine, because women and children didn't even have the rights back then that modern ethics and morality have thankfully afforded to them now.
God is very intelligent and created all natural foods for us to eat and if you look at all the natural food each food does something for each part of our bodies what an amazing God he knew exactly what our bodies would need and meat and dairy is Not one of them
Look at the rationale argument of this if God wanted to end animal slaughter he would have no problem doing it but since he allows it. It shows he doesn't really care
@@juliuscox94 God Is patient and He values our free will more than the animal's lives. Not that He doesn't care for His creation, but if He stepped in every time someone made a wrong choice, we'd all be dead...
this argument is terrible because plants are also God's creation. We should respect that. Trees are God's creation. We should respect those. Metal is God's creation... You start to see that you can't really use that
The Amazon forest is almost gone BECAUSE OF THE LUST FOR MEAT. And I am grieved at that loss to the health of the whole planet. If Christians are to celebrate the destruction of our water table and the pollution of the air and land because of animal waste and the methane causing the warming of the atmosphere, that Christians are only interested in remaining selfish even more than atheists, who care about this all over the place, all I can say, is SHAME ON YOU! Christians should take the lead on protecting the planet and not protecting the right to eat meat when they can live and live well without all this destruction of the environment in order to make gluttons of themselves. The majority of Vegans are not obese! What hypocrites!!!!
We're all hypocrites in the eyes of God. Including me, and you. I'm not trying to nullify your concerns (which I think are valid), but just trying to encourage you to reorder your priorities and deal with them in order. Forgiveness is key, if Christ has forgiven us for all the wrong we've done, whether in ignorance or with knowledge, then we must strive to show forgiveness and patience with others as God has to us. Throwing extra fuel in the fire is not going to change anything anyway. Even if your concern is valid (on any subject for that matter), it won't be received and won't help at all if you don't do it in love. The wisdom that's from God is always seasoned with Love, gentleness, patience, forgiveness, kindness, etc.. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3:17-18) Those who've been forgiven much, love much! And I believe if you're approach started with forgiveness instead of condemnation, then it would be effective for good. :) Grace and peace from the Lord Jesus Christ to you
@@supplantermusic9413 Why do you suppose their is so much obesity and heart disease and crippling arthritis and cancer? And those who go vegan avoid these diseases and more. So in order to make you feel good, vegan Christians are not being considerate to you’re desire for flesh foods. That only means you feel guilty. The best way to avoid guilt is to change your behavior. My husband got cancer following your advice, and he was one of 4 who got cancer and retired all with prostate cancer. He has eaten vegan since his surgery. The other three are dead. Why not tell me it is God’s will for my husband to be dead. I was in a wheelchair from arthritis, my mind was getting forgetful (my father died of Alzheimer’s), and it is clear now and I live pain-free. You just suffer till your dying day and eat your meat. What they put in meats was unknown in Jesus’ day. Our oceans and rivers are polluted. The doctors who study veganism which is whole food plant-based find that eating vegan is healthy, even the WHO (the World Health Organization) says that a WFPB (Whole Food Plant-Based) diet is appropriate for all stages of life. Vegan children do better in schools. The only Blue Zone to be found in North America is Loma Linda, CA where the largest proportion of vegetarians live and many are vegans. They live longer and are more disease-free than any other Americans and they are not fat. Most are well-educated. No, I am not SDA. But if it works, and I am healthier, I can serve God far better than losing my mind and being so crippled I can’t even knit. Good Grief! Doctors can reverse diabetes prescribing a WFPB diet, endometriosis is reversed so women who were infertile, can have children. As to diabetics, when their feet turn black due to their disease, they are normally amputated. You want them to follow your advise? You really would prefer to have no feet if diabetes overcomes you this way than to risk looking like you were depending upon your works? Guess what! John the Baptist came preaching repentance and Jesus did too. Veganism is a form of fasting as I fast from animal foods so I can be a better person. No animals suffer on account of me. Never did animals sacrifices take away sin. Now that plant foods are so available, getting all you need from plants is very possible but it does take some learning. It takes no learning to pat yourself on the back and say “what a good boy am I”. I spent 5 years to study the diet before I want to and become vegan. At that time I was really motivated as I could not walk. You can have your stints if you want them so badly, but that is very expensive and our nation is going broke trying to cater to fat people who can’t control their appetites. They are putting addictive substances in those foods which is why since 1950, weight has been climbing. A few years ago, about 25% of people were obese, then it was 50%, now they say that 75% of Americans will be obese or overweight. Have you not read that God was not happy with Hophni and Phineas? They ate the fat, which they were not supposed to do. All meats we eat are HIGH IN FAT! The people before refrigeration could not possibly eat the way we do and were slim. At best they might eat meat, the common man, when their village had a celebration. The king was the one who ate an meat-based diet. King Henry the VIII was famous for this gross obesity and his gout. My mother suffered from gouty arthritis, my arthritis did not affect my feet. And I do not want it back. Enjoy yours if you so desire. But I can serve the Lord better being healthy and alive than dying as my father did, not even knowing who I was. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, is it not? Then why do you want to eat yourself into disease? The pills the doctors give you “manage” disease, they cannot cure them. Both my husband and I had asthma too and we do not have it any longer. Something that the doctors claim is impossible. In ten years since going vegan I have not had the flu or a single cold. Viruses need an acidic body to reproduce but my body as are all vegans, alkaline. You have fattened your heart in a day of slaughter, was this a good thing or a bad one? Moreover you encourage others to be as sick as you are. Jesus is the Creator, He referred to Genesis many times. The only time it is certain that Jesus ate fish was after His resurrection and it was to prove He rose bodily. Due to translation, the term “fish” in the Gospels could have referred to “fish weed”, a known condiment for bread. These miracles of feeding the 5,000 and the 4,000, were out in the hot sun for hours at a time. Now the bread would have endured this and remained edible. But the fish? Highly unlikely unless it had been dried and salted. We understand what it is to live with refrigeration and not without it. Had Jesus given people salted fish instead, the thirst would have been great. He did not split a rock at that time and pour out water. The sensible translation there would be “fish weed”, the condiment for the bread. What shall I say? You can eat your way to disease, or eat your way to health. What is God’s will in a time of gross pollution is that the plant-foods are less toxic. That is why they can still heal. If you want to serve God and lead by example, the Bible challenges us to try God, to test or as it actually says, “taste”. The Lord is our Bread, and He did not change the design or our body due to a flood. By our very physiology, we are designed to eat plant-foods, we have a long digestion tract and our salvia has 3 copies of the enzyme to digest starch. Carnivores do not have that. All herbivores have an appendix, we have an appendix. If you feed ground up dead sheep to a sheep, their legs grow crooked, to feed cows, dead cows, is where Mad Cow disease came from. People in New Guinea eating the next tribe, went mad for all of these created prion disease. When they slaughter beef, they cut from nose to tail so they cut through the brain and if the animal has prion disease, it isn’t going to be destroyed by cooking it. Prions remain even after an animals is cremated. We live in the age of God’s judgment and the Bible tells that men would not repent despite the warnings. If we are to survive to tell the message of the cross and salvation, the best way to survive these plagues is to be vegan as it give you and I the best opportunity to live. Medications are becoming useless as most antibiotics are given to animals to keep them well enough to slaughter. So when you eat meat, your body also is becoming immune to antibiotics. We were fortunate to have President Trump who laid aside regulations in order to get the world a vaccine for Covid. He was more prayed for than any man. Prayer is one thing, God’s miracles are another as if miracles happened every time we prayed, they would not be rare and would cease being “miraculous”. When you pray, do you ask God to “give us this day our daily bread” or what you are actually considering “bread” is your excuses to continue to eat meat in a time you are going to be sicker and want God to keep you well despite? God cures alcoholics but they are NOT drinking after He delivers them. If you were a drug addict, I’d tell you to pray intensely and quit as if either of us were alcoholics. To eat an animal laden with drugs is to take drugs. Why are so many lacking in self-control? Self-control is one of the fruits of the spirit. I can show you my self-control in that after quitting meat, I lost 60 pounds and have kept it off for 10 years. I do not eat less but more food but that food does not make me fat as it is nearly fat-free. I do not use oils or fats and eat only a few nuts which are grated, no more than a tablespoonful. I reversed getting diabetes, and the cancer which killed my mother and sister, as well as the Alzheimer’s disease which took my grandmother and my father, are no longer my destiny. Can you say as much? When you pray, does God take the blood-guilt ness away from you for participating in a wholesale slaughter of innocent animals? They are not being saved because of me I know, but if Christians would wake up and think, this could change. But you have to do that little word you do not like, and that is “repent”. It does stick in the throat more than the meat.
@@ifeanyichukwu3644 yes there is the murder and torture of God's creatures when we have the option not to. Lotta Christians gonna be pissed off when they die and get judged by God for thier actions on earth.
@@kahlernygard809 that isnt how it works. murder is referring to humans not animals. that is because we eat animals. 🤦♂️ You'll be surprised if you go to heaven.
The Mark 7:10 quote of "Thus he declared all foods clean." is in parentheses, it's not in the early manuscripts, it's an addition by a copyist. Test everything.
Not only that... "thus he declared...." is a _translator's_ interpretive paraphrase of what may be a copyist's notes. The way the KJV renders the verse captures the cool personality & instructive wit of Jesus: Mark 7:18-19 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, *but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?* 😊☺️ This is an issue (at least in part) because Piper uses the ESV. The ESV is a rather _poor_ translation (with errant English diction, jerky prose, inconsistent footnoting, etc) and, although Crossway bills it as word-for-word, it is most certainly not. To which I respond, spend an afternoon reading several chapters of the NASB (+ footnotes), the KJV, the YLT, the Mounce translation. and the ESV verse by verse, side by side. Also, throw in the NIV. It will become readily apparent, fairly early into the afternoon that the ESV is not what you think it is. "Well but..." No folks. It's not. If you want a good modern word for word, go NAS. Older, go KJV.... if you want a paraphrase.... go NIV. At least the NIV is fairly high quality writing. Sorry Ken, for mini rant. ( / rant) I rue the day Piper switched from NASB.... and MacArthur from NKJV to ESV. Blech.
Correct, we are not to judge, we are meant to inform and love. Btw, unless you raise and murder your own animals they are NOT clean or pure ;) look up the "Land of hope and glory" documentary And the biblical vegan ;) Eating meat mass produced is making us all stumble. It is an issue of health. Vegan is healthier, therefore you will be happier, I want you to be happy and healthy because I love you and want you to endure less pain ;)
If we really pray about and give thanks for our diet. Glutony is a big sin for us that can afford food, and that means if we overeat, eat without thanks, or put food as a idol, and more. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. Think about the people that have no food or very limited rations. Whatever you do (eat or drink) let it be for God's glory!
Remember this first: As Christians, we are to preach and live the Gospel every day. Period. Nothing else on a spiritual sense matters. That being said: there is NO DOUBT that eating vegan, as originally intended is better for personal health. So, as long as you put the Gospel FIRST, it is more than okay to let your brothers and sisters know that if they ate better, they'd feel better, THEN love them enough to accept their choice.
Wow, even religious people try to find excuses for torture and murder of animals. Being vegan and orthodox christian myself I could never go back to eating animal products. I even grew up with animals like pigs and my grandpa treated them well but they eventually had to be killed and I never enjoyed the taste of meat. Its something innate that guided me towards veganism and i only wish I had done it sooner.
There was something innate in me as well where I never liked meat - everything from the thought of those sweet animals, the taste, the texture. I finally felt my true authentic self when I stopped feeling like I had to eat meat, and went fully vegan. I have been fully vegan for 2 years now and I won’t ever go back! I am finally living free!
I agree with everything Pastor John said, but I feel like he got away from the question. The question was not about it being sinful or not. Clearly it’s not... but the question was over the original design of man. And to defend Pastor John again.. it’s not like he can really answer that with Scripture any better than he did. Well done!
It's pretty simple. He designed us perfectly and it was perfect in the garden of Eden, when he clearly states in Gen 1:29 that we were vegan, just as he designed. Then sin came into the world and we all started to be a bunch of muppets and started killing baby animals and eating their corpse for fun, because, unno, Satan. Do Christians forget Satan rules the world? Killing babies is the work of Satan, not God. We all need to wake up to this! We're destroying God's creatures, who he entrusted us to look after, for fun and laughs and a bit of a taste pleasure people. He is going to be PISSED!
@@tabandken8562 I don't need to prove it is. As long as I have planted the seed of doubt in your mind then I have succeeded. Prove that it's not a sin ;)
But we have to accept, that the foods and animals these days have not been mass grown. They didn‘t have huge slaughterhouses and farms for thousands of people. They were far more connected to the food they ate and raised. So we have to take that in consideration too. Times have changed. Jesus would not be happy these days with the way we went. All a learning process in my opinion. And humanity is learning quick now. Amen. 😊❤️🙏🏼
Partly true....but during passover....lambs were slain for millions of people under the law of moses. Thats a lot of lambs...one per family would be at least hundreds of thousands of lambs.
God made the animals who are the most close to humans biologically speaking as omnivores, who eat mostly plant materials supplemented by a little animal protein. This is the ideal balance of diet for humans too, and our bodies are designed accordingly.
The bottom line is, you can make the Bible say anything you want it to say. Its content is so diverse and contradictory, it can literally support ANY issue or cause, whether right or wrong, from either side.
“Meat” in the Bible meant nourishment. And all “food” is clean... must be a food to be considered clean. Carcass of animals in not food to me and never will be. Also, animals do get me nourishment, but not in the form of nutrition. They give me nourishment in the form of emotional bonding and connection. Pigs are smarter than dogs, elephants are arguably smarter than humans in ways, dolphins speak in high frequencies etc. You can be friends with animals just as much as people, if not better sometimes.
While we can agree that God didn't intend for us to use factory and battery farming with chemicals, drugs and cruelty, we are permitted to eat any type of meat we like.
N M M what about those who eat fruits and vegetables for health reasons. I know some people who don’t have health problems when they only eat fruits and vegetable.
Hello. If you read that passage from verse 1 Paul it says that in the last days some will depart from the faith and he goes on to list examples of what this will look like. Verse 3 is him continuing on that list in saying that people in the last days will forbid this.. but this is not biblical.
@disciple duSeigneur friend, you must be careful how you conduct yourself to the world. Christ doesn't want us quarreling with people like this, especially over something simple like what to eat and not eat. Remember the weightier matters of the law, of such love is the chief law. Our Lord said the whole law hangs on two commandments, see that you obey them over the old law, because in doing so, you will truly be obedient to the old law by God's Grace. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself. Love is gentle, patient, kind, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, and covers a multitude of sins. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3:17-18) Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God (Matthew 5:9) Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. You must know that these people are not being built up by what you're doing, but rather the Name of Christ is being misrepresented. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. See that you abide in Christ and His Words so that you may bear much fruit. Apart from Him you can do nothing, even if you're trying to use His Word to do it. Grace and mercy and peace be to you in the name of Jesus
Would perception change if we referred to "meat" as what it really is? The animals are not "its". They are not "meat" until they are slaughtered and chopped into bits. The distinction is between those who eat animals and those who do not. Do we view animals themselves as individuals or as food?
Leviticus Ch11 _Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: _*_"These are the animals which you may eat_*_ - whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud... all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers."_ I edited it to save space (it's very wordy and I didn't list the exceptions), but clearly God tells us that we _can_ eat meat. 1 Timothy Ch4: _"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times _*_some will depart from the faith,_*_ giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, _*_speaking lies_*_ in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and _*_commanding to abstain from foods which God created_*_ to be received with thanksgiving by those who _*_believe and know the truth._*_ For _*_every creature of God is good,_*_ and _*_nothing is to be refused_*_ if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."_ God's "original" design is irrelevant. The Garden Of Eden existed *in the beginning.* Back then there _was no_ killing. There was only Adam and Eve and they didn't kill each other. Animals didn't kill other animals either. It was a place of perfect peace. However, we all know the story. They ate the apple and fell out of God's graces and _things changed!_ They no longer lived in harmony with nature and all of God's creation. They had to _work_ the earth to grow food and death came into the world. People killed people and animals now hunted and killed other animals. Being vegan should not be a religious choice, it should be a lifestyle choice. Nothing is wrong with being a vegan but *after* the days of the Garden of Eden, God now explicitly tells us that we _can_ eat meat. So any Christians out there who feel like condemning people who eat meat, be _very careful_ and consider God's words in 1 Timothy above.
@AlmondButter How is killing animals for food murder? How am I murdering anything? And I *know* God didn't say we *have* to eat meat, but he said we *could.* Do you know what "could" means? It means we *can* if we *want* to. Why is that so hard to understand?
@@gaborszadai1992 Because everything that God has made for food is good. God himself sacrificed animals. If you want to know God I challenge you to read the scriptures fully. Otherwise do not comment on what you do not know. The question is not why did he allow it? But the statement is that God commands, and we live by his commandments. Therefore there is no condemnation if an animal enters my mouth, but there is judgment for what comes out of my mouth and gluttony which are two different things. I have an 11-year old cat, but I will never compare her worth to the worth of a human being. I would sacrifice my own cat if it meant feeding 50 children under God's will.
It is by God's wisdom and power that the most merciful diet, whole food plant based veganism, is the healthiest diet. To say the God permits meat eating today is to say that God approves of cruelty to animals. So by the logic presented in this video, by having mercy upon animals by avoiding cruelty to them, I, and other vegans, are more merciful than God. That is not possible, and therefore the argument in this video must be incorrect.
What I need help with is why would God allow animals to eat each other? I saw a video the other day of lions eating an animal while it was still alive and the animal just had to sit there and suffer slowly. Why would an all loving God punish animals with suffering when they are innocent? I’ve heard the “when we sinned, it affected the whole world” answer, but I just don’t know if I like/except that answer
And if the milk and honey came from animals and bees,then there won't be much to flow like a river. It is either metaphorical or somekind of a miraculous scenery that doesn't come from animals and bees.
Everyone focusses straight at justifying their desires using scripture, rather than looking at who the God of Scripture is, learning about the situation, and then seeing if the heartbeat of God is even in what they're defending. And most of the time I feel that the Christians making their defense feel so strongly about eating meat (because they like it and it's comfortable), that they do not apply the morality of the heart of God to the slaughterhouse. I encourage every Christian not to shy away from educating themselves on the common slaughterhouse practices of today, and while watching what happens to these animals, asking themselves if they see God there. I can certainly tell you, I don't see the Christian God in the common slaughterhouse practices. In fact, I see an absence of him there. (For the record, I am a Christian Vegan, unimpressed with fellow Christians' justification for meat consumption thus far, as most of the people who make these videos do not even educate themselves on common slaughterhouse practice before standing up in defense of meat, with very little convincing moral evidence to supply.)
I think as a vegan, as a nurse, and as a Christian that if our bodies are the temple why would we fill them with essentially what is corpses and make it a cemetery? Daniel also was vegan or vegetarian (don't know if he ate dairy or eggs during that time but from verses in scripture I'd say vegan) during the test of 10 days and was healthier. Why would that even be included in the Bible? Does it add to the Gospel? It clearly points to health. We don't live in the past. We live now. We know that CAFOs are detrimental for the environment and to the health of the community where they are located (higher levels of lung diseases in communities with CAFOs). We know meat consumption leads to coronary artery disease, same with dairy products. We aren't saying that eating meat is a sin. The blatant disregard for the creatures God created, the abuse and exploitation they endure is real. We cannot remain ignorant to that.
_our bodies are the temple why would we fill them with essentially what is corpses and make it a cemetery?_ We don't "fill" our bodies with meat. Meat is just a _part_ of a healthy diet. Over consuming _anything_ can be detrimental to your health, even water. _Daniel also was vegan or vegetarian (don't know if he ate dairy or eggs during that time but from verses in scripture I'd say vegan) during the test of 10 days and was healthier. Why would that even be included in the Bible?_ Regardless of whether or not Daniel was a vegetarian/vegan, he was _not_ put on earth to be an example to _all of God's people_ of what kind of diet to have. He was _one man_ and what _he chose to do in _his life_ has no bearing on _anyone else._ As far as why was that story about him abstaining from meat and wine in the bible? Many vegans use that story as "evidence" that we are supposed to be vegan, but that story has _nothing to do_ with "God wants us to be vegan". The reason Daniel abstained from meat and wine was because the way that they were prepared were not in accordance of his Jewish dietary laws and were almost certainly sacrificed to pagan idols.
I a vegan love you all and I’m still learning to love better everyday regardless of what you eat or do know you will always be loved and forgiven by the lord and I love you ❤️
current laws allow industralised animal cruelty in every process of animal agriculture.... labels such as free-range, organic, grass-fed, humane meat are misleading... one does not have a choice but be vegan if you do not want to inflict the legalised animal cruelty in animal industry
I think we start wrong by descussing this basing ourselves on a book writen centuries ago... Today's reallity and needs are completly diferent. Today we have alternatives that centuries ago mankind wouldn't have. People were surviving, and today most of the civilized word has a lot to choose from... Why chose cruelty?! The argument "All foods are clean" is not a good one in my opinion... Is it ok if someone decides another human to be part of his diet? Is that "clean food"? If not, why? What makes it justifiable to do it to other animals and not with the human kind? Other thing i don't understant is why would we consider what happens behind the walls of slaughter houses? That would be a thing that a benevolant good would do or a work of devil? If we look what really happens in the industries of meat, fish, dairy we would see how wrong it is with the values that most religions try to pass. There is no peace, no belevolence, no love, no empathy, no respect, no kindness in killing inocent sentient beings... Or do religions defende cruelty, death, arrogance, slavery, suffering, death? I don't think so...
The way animals are raised and killed for most of the meat in the USA is very heartless and cruel. I don't see a issue of extending compassion towards animals and calling out people that don't. How we treat animals has a significant effect on how we experience love in the world. For some, animals give them the greatest love in life.
I've been vegetarian for 5 years & it's been great journey! I choose this lifestyle cuz i loveee animals & it's not fair that animals suffer and get killed for just a plate a food , god didn't create suffering nor killing right? So yea ((: 💓 but i respect those who eat animals
How long will the land mourn, and the grass of every field wither? For the wickedness of those who live in it the animals and the birds are swept away, and because people said, speaking of god ‘He is blind to our ways.” though it was they who do not see But those who choose their own ways- delighting in their detestable sins- will not have their offerings accepted. When such people sacrifice a bull, it is no more acceptable than a human sacrifice. When they sacrifice a lamb, it’s as though they sacrifice dogs God institutes a plant-based diet for both humans and non-human animals God said, “Look! i create every seed-bearing plant throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food and to all the animals of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food” Hence, if food can lead my brother to sin, I will never again eat meat lest I cause the downfall of one of my brethren You stray from that only if you choose not to live God's perfect vision a world without killing animal death Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat or do anything that causes your brother to fall. Do not be as those savage beast, those predators do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the royal rations of food and wine … Then Daniel asked … ‘Let us be given vegetables to eat and water to drink.’ … At the end of ten days it was observed that they appeared better and fitter than all the young men who had been eating the royal rations.” -Daniel 1:8, 11-12, 15 those that hate me love death
A plant based whole food diet, primarily, is hands down the most healthful diet today!! The evidence is indisputable. So much available to prove this to be true today. It is not an issue that meat eating is wrong. It is just, do you want to thrive for the few minutes of life we have down here OR not??!!
When I came to Christ I asked God if He wants me to be vegan since I'm a Christian now. His response was that I can eat anything with gratitude without concern and that the ones who torture animals will be held accountable before God, He will judge them righteously. Same thing with clothes. Just look up the conditions your clothes are made in, you'd have to walk around naked if you'd want to protect the people working there underpaid and in child labor. But God has His judgement already prepared for those who exploit others.
So if you could buy one carrot, and buying this special carrot caused someone to make a billion people stop existing, that would be okay on your view? You could just not buy the carrot and the person will not do the deed. If your answer is yes, I want you to really consider whether or not it’s actually God you’re talking to. That doesn’t sound like the God I believe in.
@@whyZaya I agree with you. God will hold us accountable with how much need we had vs. how much we consumed. Not only in meat, also in the measure of how much we eat while others are starving. Monasteries live without meat completely and the greatest saints of history only ate bread and fasted a lot.
@@yasminpanasjuk682 What I’m getting at is that if we can do a very small action to prevent someone else from doing something horrible, we should do that small action, even if it’s something like walking 10 feet to get the almond milk instead of the cows’ milk.
We naturally don't like blood, our teeth and fingers are not designed to tear raw meat. Our teeth are like those of herbivores who masticate/crush vegies with the help of our jaw moving from side to side; carnivores only up and down for tearing raw meat with sharp teeth and sharp claws. Our stomach is long unlike carnivores who have strong stomach acid and quickly expel meat to avoid diseases. Meat is one cause of diseases. Half of Hindus, Buddhists early Christians were vegetarians even up to now. Animals are God's children, too. Do we eat our brothers and sisters? A cow is considered one of our mothers. It produces milk more than she needs and the rest is for human consumption. We are not necessarily inflicting pain to her in natural process, unlike the process today which is very painful to them. It also helps in plowing the field, carry people and merchandise. And, we show our gratefulness by killing them for food. Ultimately, most vegetarians adopted the particular diet because it can be offered to God and He will accept it. It is the prescribed diet found in most scriptures who are not adulterated to satisfy the desire for meat.
I know people who are extreme vegans. And what I've seen is that it comes from which i would say is idolizing animals to the point of praising them by adopting the belief of not killing them for how they feel and how they look at animal's as like a praise for them. To the point that I've literally seen and known people who have this deep admiration for animal's that their emotionally and mentally distorted by the admiration they have for animal's which i believe is beyond the normal point when it controls you're emotions and mental stability and controls you. Which i think is a weakness of the flesh and a distorted view and understanding of animal's. Which you can say this is why people have worshipped and idolize animal's and other thing's of the world like nature and trees or whatever i think it's a idolizing view of how you interpret something and view it so that it has control over you because you glorify it based on what significance you give something that isn't supposed to be glorified in the world. Only God is glorified and praised above everything or anyone.
I agree with him, but we cannot have this argument without talking about the fact that the meat industry is the leading cause of environmental damage, destroying the rain forest and killing the oceans and climate change and we are called to be stewards of creation. And the cruelty in the way they are killed when we are called to have dominion over all the animals, that's not dominion, that's abuse of power to gain money. Yes, we cannot judge what people eat or drink, but we are also called to a higher standard as Christians. Choosing not to contribute to this seems like a very small sacrifice to me.
Sarah Bandstra exactly. And that’s my problem with it. As a bible believing Christian we are arguing whether it’s spiritually lawful or not and that isn’t even the question. In bible times they didn’t have a whole industry raising a Species of animals only to use them as food. Mass producing therefore having to inject them with hormones and Antibiotics because they crowd them so close together they get sick. There is rape and kdnapping and everything involved in the animals agriculture industry that as a professed Christian talking about whether it’s right or wrong to eat animals does not even scratch the Surface of the evils that go on in this industry. In just 100 years we have Quadrupled our meat consumption. We are eating more animals products now then ever before in history and our health is paying for it. This isn’t a “is it right or wrong to eat meat “ issue. It’s sooooo much deeper than that
Theological yes. Ethical - not discussed - the main reason people go that direction, faith or not. As an educated vegan, Christian, environmental scientist - it was clear. Animal cruelty is half the issue, it's our fellow brothers and sisters. I choose no meat for environment and ethical reasons. I choose no meat and many other products because just like I don't accept slave labour, environmental degredation, poverty, corruption etc... Any produce can increase a multitude of issues. Our sins, greed, unconcious decisions, uneducated practices all can effect someone negatively. This is a journey we all need to go on. Ignorance is not bliss for the other side of the world why 1st world enjoy the luxury. I say you don't enjoy it if you are aware. Knowledge and grace are key to this issue.
I think the example Pastor Piper gave from Roman 14 refers to believing vegetarians (maybe because of kosher requirements) and believing non-vegetarians (who eat anything). It is possible that because of kosher requirements (as early Christian believers were also Jewish) they preferred to eat vegetables instead of meats available - when both Jewish and gentile believers would come together to eat. Maybe that is why Paul refers to them as having weak faith - nevertheless, they had faith in Jesus. Reference Romans 14:2: "One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." While Paul calls those Jews who eat anything as having strong faith - because faith in Jesus indeed is greater than faith in letter ("letter kills but spirit gives life": 2 Cor 3:6). This reference of Paul to vegetarian food seems parallel to (some) Jewish believers regarding some days important than others. In the same chapter, Paul is saying (Romans 14:5-6): "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God." So, in both the cases [i.e. case 1) eating vegetarian food and considering some days as more important than others; case 2) Eating anything and considering every day alike] Paul is saying - 'They are doing it to the LORD and in faith.' Anything done or eaten without faith in GOD is a sin. And since both the vegetarians (because of kosher) and non-vegetarians believe in GOD, so anything they eat is not a sin - so they must build each other in love and not judge each other from their perspective of faith in the same GOD. So, the example of Romans 14 possibly does not fit the context of the question asked by Scott. Scott's friends are not Christians, so they do not have faith in God. And Romans 14 maybe does not answer the question of pre-fall dietary standard made by God & the dietary standard when the world will be restored (Is 11:6-9: "wolf will lay down with the lamb.... They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.") We have to take the bible verses literally as well as symbolically. This is a change in nature that we can't comprehend in the world we live in. But, it does seem fair. Nobody likes crying and horrified animals in butcher houses. Before fall, God gave Adam and Eve every seed-bearing fruit to eat. But when they sinned and covered themselves with fig leaves, God had to slaughter an animal and cover them up with skin. The same pattern repeats in the next generation. Abel lives in truth - knows that he is sinful & sacrifices a lamb to God and God accepts his sacrifice. But Cain brings "fruits of soil" (work of his hands, his good deeds) to the Lord and is rejected. So, the point is - Abel lives in truth. Abel knows that even if sticks to the "fruits of the soil" (work of his hands, his good deeds), that will not obliterate the sin inside of him. So he gives up the effort - as he knows that an effort to do things "right" 100% is pointless. So, today vegetarian people boast of being good by not eating animals. But the truth is that they cannot obliterate their sin and the harmful effects of their sin on other people in so many different ways - individually and collectively. Look at the state of the ethnic communities that are primarily vegetarian (for example, India) - do they not have injustice in society? Historically, very grievous forms of social injustice was/is prevalent in India - for example, the caste system. So, the point is - by making effort to do good deeds, even if by not doing a visibly grievous thing like killing an animal - the sin in the human heart is not obliterated, and its consequences are visible in other areas of life. Unless there is a regeneration of human heart and flesh from power from above (outside of human limitations, i.e. when Jesus comes back again or new heavens and new earth appear), maybe we cannot do everything 100% right. And a good way would be just to accept that.
I would agree with almost everything you have said, except the idea that we can't do everything 100% right. My problem would have to do with the commandment to not sin and to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. This would implicate the very real instruction, through the power of the resurrection and blood of Jesus Christ, to not sin. This is decidedly different from the law of sin and death, where if you sin you die, because in the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, you are made alive without works and your sins, even those you may commit even being a Christian are taken away in utter completion. Again God says that ad far as the east is from the west so far has he removed our sins from us. Even more so, the apostle Paul says that we are no longer debtors to the flesh to do its deeds but to the Spirit and to righteousness to do them.
@@xavierthomas5835 When those who are born again (filled with God's Spirit) do something that is not 100% right, they are humbled by their imperfections (albeit that does not mean it's right to willfully sin). When they are humbled by their imperfections, I guess that is the right direction. The wrong direction is doing something that seems good on the surface but does not eliminate other dimensions of darkness in your hearts. This is dangerous, because you think you do good and are not even humbled.
@@divyaa155 When you say that they don't do it 100% right, you have to be saying they have done it 100% wrong because there is no such thing as a good intention gone bad by the Spirit of God. He can only do perfect works, when we rely upon him for direction and power to walk. Otherwise all you have is a hastily thought out and seemingly well intended sin. God used to kill people because of their lack of foresight and hastiness in his service. However, what really matters is whether you know the LORD or not. He will and has purified our hearts and sanctified us wholly already according to his word and the power of his resurrection. God himself having said now are ye clean through the word I have spoken unto you tells us that in him we are perfect and through faith is the righteousness and the true righteousness of love and peace reckoned to us through the Spirit and through the Truth.
Also if you say that something unclean can make you humble, you say that there is uncleanness in God. Because the fruit of the Spirit is humility. But this I know you have not said, because we both know that every good and perfect thing comes from God. This means that God freely gives us humility when we sin, so that our heart is not hardened in our sin and repentance with humility. People then have erred in that the free gift of God does not come because we are incapable of doing good, but in order that we may do good and sin no more.
what I think that pastor John is missing at is that vegans aren't concerned about salvation and justification as what the issues are in the Scriptures. More than anything Vegans are for a healthier diet, a peaceful world and a holistic lifestyle. With the Christian vegans going for good stewardship on the earth the Lord has made.
@@rayfrancisgamban7437 it’s very simple, we don’t eat, or use anything that comes from an animal. As for further philosophical matters, that would be a subjective topic with many different thoughts.
@@rayfrancisgamban7437 If you were referring to concerns about religion, well god’s very first instructions was what to eat and how to live. The fact that most believers of the Bible don’t even follow the very first instructions demonstrates the lack of understanding of the book for one as well as just how many people have not actually understood what they read. I say that to say this, every so called believer of the Bible wants to get in good with god right? Well if they can’t even follow the very first instructions, it’s no wonder why all can’t follow the one’s directly after. Start off wrong…end wrong.
Now tell me which was my ignorant claim? I was commenting on the video. The pastor's thought was concerning justification... That's where I was making remarks. So, are vegans concerned about justification? Not just any vegans but those who, at least, started the movement...
"1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all." Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV) Holy Bible.. AMEN! Hoorah!!!
@@user-lt1do6gr9i No, just 100 percent concrete fact. There is absolutely no deviation from the truth in any of the texts in any of the Christian Bibles.
@@mattroberg7728 Well certainly. But I have to answer your previous comment regarding no metaphor being present in the Bible. If you refuse to acknowledge the presence of metaphors in the Bible,then you my friend neither know the Bible nor know the meaning of metaphor and truth. I will answer you in the light of John 10:7 where Jesus says "I am the door". This showcases the value of truth being presented in a sense of metaphor because Jesus is not a literal door but a way through which we reach the Father.
Levictus 11: 39 “And if any animal which you may eat dies, whoever touches its carcass shall be unclean until the evening, 40 and whoever eats of its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until the evening. And whoever carries the carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until the evening.
but... the scripture says Romans 12:2 New International Version (NIV) 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will. I heard something else at 05:38 or am I confusing it with a different verse.
Animal farming plays a huge role in global warming, water shortages, and quality of life. You body is the temple of God. Eat live foods, fruits and veggies, not meat.
The question is not whether the Bible gives you permission to eat flesh. the REAL question is, why would you willingly pay for the murder of thousands of animals just to satisfy your belly?! If non-believers are compelled by their compassion that they become vegan activists to save animal lives, shouldn't "Christians" be ashamed that they actually encourage this cruel industry? May your compassion be stronger than your appetite!
fourstarist Paul was a woman-hating flesh-eater who was a mass murderer of Christians and a self-proclaimed apostle. In 1820, Thomas Jefferson called Paul "the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus." I don't subscribe to ONE WORD that infiltrator anti-Christ said.
We aren't Daniels! "1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all." Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV) AMEN! Hoorah!!!
You need to study Early Judaism Christianity. The first followers of Jesus. They were, following Jesus's diet Vegetarian (Vegan). Paul did not agree with the veg stance and was preaching to Gentile meat eaters. We have to live beyond Scripture and look around us at this dying planet, human sickness and the suffering and death of millions of animals. That will give you the answer if God intended a Plant-Based diet or not.
@@enivo2363 If meat-eating is so "good" then why created you as vegan? Why should He have waited for permitting meat-eating until after the Flood? Tell me, bro...
No thanks, I'm a Christian and I'm going to nit-pick any verses I like and ensure they're taken out of context to suit my current world-view and to give me permission to continue satisfying my addition to corpse flesh.
What about in the book of Acts with Peter's firm stance against not eating anything unclean? Did he miss the message Jesus preached when he talked about all foods being cleaned? And reading about the vision that Peter had on the rooftop, it seems a lot of people overlook the full message, those animals were a representation of gentiles.
Interesting note, from my experience Vegan life or people who shifted seem to be traumatized by the reality of killing for "food". We see the suffering passing a butcher. When a Vegan talked to others they are willing to cross the road of torture pictures in their head to help the animals. We don't want to talk about this all the time. Especially after 20 odd years for me or in my kid's life never eating meat. We just want the killing and pain to stop. The cry and terror to stop. It is in our heads and in front of us all the time. I am asked regularly about my veganism and being interrogated if I am judging them. I am not the one bringing up the subject I just don't eat their meat and they feel judged. Then the bible verses come out of them using it against me. They want approval from me and to know I am not judging them. I could care less what they eat I hide but being approached all the time. I don't think God wants to force me to eat innocent animals I am with good conscience I don't want to. So to finish this note, I wonder who judges who?
Have no worries before God. "1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all." Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV) AMEN! Hoorah!!!
Big point.. animals feel pain, we feel pain.. will you "give yourself" for someone to eat? That's your choice, either way.. animals do not have a choice.. and if you look at Genesis 1:29 he actually says "I give all the seed bearing plants to you, they will be yours for meat" so the perception that "meat" means animal flesh is wrong.. God called seed bearing plants "meat".. and we dont despise anyone, we are trying to open your eyes before you die over the bad choices your making.. and in doing so we can save trillions of others lives.. sacrificing taste pleasure for someone else is the ultimate show of love and compassion, it could never be wrong and I think God cringes when we force others to die for such a trivial reason, such as a 5 minute meal or a sandwich..
I love the part of this that basically says don't judge each other. I'm a vegan non Christian, but I love elements of religion. I often find myself judging meat eaters and its not good. I won't enter heaven as I don't serve God but at least whilst on earth I will now be non judgemental towards meat eaters, even those that laugh about animal suffering whilst stuffing their faces with unnecessary meat products 😃❤🙏😇
@disciple duSeigneur 1. Yes, THEN it was necessary to make them (Adam and Eve) garments of skins in order to clothe them by His Truth. But NOW you kill animals unnecessarily just for fun, just for joy, not for surviving. THEN the Lord obviously killed two animals to show them an example that they should kill animals for sacrificing, too: those offered animals would anticipate the Savior. But NOW we know that "it was not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins", NOW we have to kill animals not any longer, for "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" and by (t)his "offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sacrificed". 2. Yes, THEN the Lord ordered to that primitive, nomadic, stiffhearted people in the wilderness that they should eat the flesh of the passover lamb up, but NOW we know that "our Passover Lamb (i.e. Christ) has been sacrificed for us". So good news: we don't need to live NOW just they did in the Bronze Age. 3. Yes. THEN Jesus ate meat or rather the circumstances forced Him to suffer eating meat. Your circumstances don't force you to kill sentient, innocent creatures, you kill them unnecessarily, although you could easily and abundantly eat something else in a more cruelty-free way, bro: ruclips.net/video/9DJ28bDZCi0/видео.html ...
Most vegans like to quote that verse as "proof" that God wants us to be vegans. They always conveniently avoid telling you about the _rest_ of the bible... *Genesis Ch9 V3* *_Every moving thing_*_ that lives _*_shall be food_*_ for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs._ *Leviticus Ch11 V1-3* _Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: "These are the _*_animals which you may eat_*_ - whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud... all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers."_ *Luke Ch24 V36-40* _Now as they (His disciples) said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled _*_fish_*_ and some _*_honeycomb._*_ And _*_He took it and ate_*_ in their presence._ *1 Timothy Ch4 V1-5* _Now the Spirit expressly says that _*_in latter times some will depart from the faith,_*_ giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and _*_commanding to abstain from foods which God created_*_ to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and _*_know the truth._*_ For _*_every creature_*_ of God is good, and _*_nothing is to be refused_*_ if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer._
All "FOOD" clean. Food is the operative word. Any jew knew that pork or shellfish was NOT considered food. Unless you've put a rat on your plate, you can't say that truthfully Peter's dream meant all foods are now clean. Plus read on and scripture explains it that it's about the gentiles.
Followers of G-d where vegan until after the flood. Sad though that people take Peters vision out of context. Peter's vision was not about food but was about what he was about to do. That is going to eat with people consider unclean to the Jewish people. Just need to read the entire story and have an understanding of whom, where and what.
So then how do you explain that God made it okay to eat meat after the flood? Secondly, it is just as pertinent that he allowed him to eat any of those beast, because otherwise you would be saying that God offered him a temptation and God doesn't tempt anyone.
Have no such worries before God. "1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all." Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV) AMEN! Hoorah!!!
I feel Romans 14 could apply to much more in Christianity, right now so many are unsure about certain Christian Worship music like Hillsong and Bethel music, so many don’t want to listen to it because it’s from churches that don’t preach the true Gospel, many people sing it in Church services, love to worship the Lord with it. If it feels like a sin to you, but not to someone else, and there isn’t a clear answer on it from the Bible, I think Romans 14 could apply. Also saying “weaker brother” in my humble opinion is not like saying a “lesser brother”, some are more sensitive spirits. Some are more discerning and deliberately deny anything that could be grieving the Holy Spirit. That kind of sensitivity to sin may set a brother apart in Holiness.
You know you could find a passage in the Bible to defend any debauched behaviour you so desire. It's all in there, so picking select passages is really quite pathetic because there are thousands of things they did then that we don't do now. The Bible was written not by a God but by men, to control and instil fear. But if you believe in Jesus and Jesus' word then he only spoke of compassion and inclusion. He didn't come from a place of ego like most do today. The only question you need to ask yourself is, does what I do cause suffering to another, and if the answer is yes don't do it. "Do to others as you would like them to do to you" Luke 6:31
What guides your actions or behavior? Your own intellect? Are you too smart to learn from history? Wisdom seeks to learn from what history has to offer and the Bible's been around much longer than you or the last 2000 plus years, only a fool would completely dismiss it, whether they believe in it or not. The people who read and DO what the Bible says, become some of the greatest achievers that there are. Look up the Father of oceanography and how he discovered ocean currents. Or Martin Luther King Jr and what drove the revolutionary peaceful protests, just to mention a few Or check Albert Einstein's views on God (though others slanderously accuse him of being an atheist, he vehemently disagrees). Those are just a few sources of wisdom if you're seeking. Although I'm not sure if that was an honest question you asked or you were just mocking people's beliefs like countless others do.
@@supplantermusic9413 I would never turn to the bible for moral guidance under any circumstances. It is well known to condone slavery. It's teachings are often barbaric. I know it doesn't change christians behaviour at all. It is a proven fact that the more religious people are, the more likely they are to commit murder and other similar crimes. I have a friend who is a commited christian who attends church, but enjoys his job working at a slaughter house. I am not a Christian and I consider it morally wrong to kill animals. I don't eat meat or any other animal products. So who has the moral compass? To this day, the bibles claims and assertions have yet to be proven true or verified by science. Yet branches of science continues to disprove, debunk and disagree with the books writings. For me to take Christianity seriously, it would first need to prove it's claims with verifiable evidence. So far, it has failed miserably. I'm still waiting. Why do you assume that because I reject christianity that I therefore must be an atheist? It's funny stuff.
How can people eat meat, hurt animals literally and still live a peaceful life as our teaching is all about love, peace and harmony, so it’s best not to eat meat, human know everything but still can’t follow ! No arguments but not eating flesh is good!
The meat that is referred to in 7.42 is meat that was offered to idols. That went against some Christians conscience, while others were not troubled by it, due to their different lifestories. This cannot be a verse to support meat eating or veganism, imho.
It’s argued that fish in Bible when it said Jesus ate fish was actually seaweed and was mistranslated. Also only one gospel talks about Jesus eating “fish” the others don’t mention it so he could have been wrong. Nothing to compare it against. I would say in a day and age when we can choose compassion and mercy verses the dead bodies of beings that didn’t want to die for tastebuds God would want us to choose mercy and compassion
NONE of these animas were eaten 4xs a day at that point. and they were used for SACRIFICE which would be important. they weren’t tortured and diseased and killed by the BILLIONS for out gluttony.
Regardless of diet, I think we can all agree that animal abuse is a sin.
Any kind of animal use.
If you buy animal products you are partaking in animal abuse.
Apparently not acc. to the Bible.
@disciple duSeigneur it's called eating to survive. We have a choice to not eat meat and can still survive, even better with whole food plant based diet! We can survive with beans, veggies, seeds, nuts, grains, fruit, veg burgers etc. A sacrifice of self will always do us good. Jesus said ' I want mercy not (animal) sacrifice"
@disciple duSeigneur I have come to believe it is the opposite at work. The prince of darkness, the first murderer influenced humans to kill and eat God's creatures.
im a vegan christian. and id like to point out 2 things. being a vegan wont save man, as sin needs to be dealt with and veganism doesnt do this. and in todays day and age, we do not need meat and dairy to sustain a healthy body.
2 things: 1) Yes, veganism WILL save man because speciesism is the root of all hatred and discrimination. Man's perceived superiority over animals is because of vanity and pride. Pride is the beginning of sin. 2) Humans never needed meat and dairy to sustain a healthy body. It was always unhealthy and only done out of selfishness, greed and the evil desire to dominate the weaker, just like it still is today.
@@harveyplantharvester1502 Nope. God wants us to live sinlessly obeying His commands. Loving one another, taking care of one another, doing unto others as we would want done to us, avoiding sexual sins, etc etc etc. If you live life as a vegan, but you live in sin, you are not going to be with God. Live your life obediently to the commandments and following all the above, but you include meat in your diet, you will be close to Him.
That was before the fall
@LION OF JUDAH JESUS CHRIST! According to Bible, Satan is the root cause of all evil. And his reason of rebellion was speciesism when he considered himself to be superior to Adam since he was an angel and Adam was man and refused to honour him. Isaiah 14 will be a good start on this subject.
@disciple duSeigneur Yes and I have never claimed that Isaiah 14 speaks anything about speciesism at the part of Satan. But it talks about Satan's fall in Isaiah 14:12-15 and therefore I forwarded it as a beginning point for the other person.
Regarding Satan's reason for rebellion being speciesm it is from the Quran chapter 7. And I was new into Christian study at that time and hence made the mistake of accepting Quran's authority. And hence I take back my statement there. But the rest of my argument remains the same. And regarding paganism and veganism, my point remains. I have already shared with you that paganism is against Veganism. But it seems that you are not here to learn and teach but to accuse.
My question is for the slaughterhouse worker who has to slice the throats of cows,chickens or pigs all day long 6 days a week because the demand for meat is so high. The slaughterhouse worker eventually suffers from PTSD. Slaughterhouse workers have seen cows cry,pigs scream etc. How should we handle that in Gods eyes.
I say pray for them regardless. If that is that person's only income for their family or if they are using it as a means to support a Church pray for them. Maybe many are not in that situation but there are many a people that may have faith in Christ but have to deal with constant sin in their job and may know there isn't other opportunities to get money. I work in a space constantly surrounded by sin and always question my job as well. I can use prayer too. But the only prayer I pray is for God's will to be done, for the forgiveness of sin, for protection for sin, and for Jesus to come soon.
@@gaborszadai1992 the world is an evil place my friend. In heaven there will be no need for slaughter houses like these. No hunger, no killing, no disease. I myself have taken more a pescatarian diet of high quality fruits and vegetables and fish like sardines and tuna. Inhumane killing is inhumane. God did give us animals and plants to eat but not to abuse especially for profit. God help us.
@disciple duSeigneur lol it's really funny that you believe that to be the characteristics of God 😂... cognitive dissonance is a real thing and it's a problem most religious people have.
I think you make a very good point Maria! As Christians, we should do what the Bible says, and the Bible tells us that we should not cause animals needless pain. That is why instead of people campaigning for veganism, we should have people trying to find painless ways to kill animals.
@@gerxi84 Why stop there? Why not to be vegan? Why to be hell-bent for killing innocent, intelligent creatures...?
I believe the issues of the meat industry definitely need to be considered here. These industries are having a profound affect on the livelihoods of everyone on the planet. Veganism is not simply a matter of clean or unclean foods, but it is a matter of loving one's neighbor and being a good steward of God's blessings. Do we have the right to abuse animals? Do we have the right to abuse the environment? I think these are good questions to consider when exploring this topic.
Yep. God definitely designed creatures to be beautiful and sentient and feel pain and suffer SOLELY for the purpose of you killing them for fun. Yep. That's God alright. What a guy! ;)
God himself ate fish and honey and even made disciples eat bread . Indicating that God wants us to both animal and plant diet .
The industry now cannot even compare to back then. They caught fish. We have these giant industries wiping out species and it’s not sustainable. It’s hurting our planet more than people realize. I gave up meat because of this (taking dominion and filling the earth with goodness and just looking at it in a wise way) not because I think meat is directly a sin. I think we need to be made more away- exactly what you’re saying. We need to look at this in context to how we get our meat and why damages it’s doing to the world. They never had this kind of problem in biblical days.
@@futureman420 ???? No God would murder his children and certainly would not EAT them, how disgusting. However the great flood was created because of the wickedness started by the fallen angels who mated with human women to create the Nephilim, corrupting humans by teaching us to eat flesh and blood. Humans are anatomically herbivores.
We have large molars for eating plants, when we eat flesh and blood it rots in our body and causes multiple diseases and stinks. The more flesh humans eat, the more we pollute our body and mind. Countries citizens that eat the most flesh have the highest rates of heart disease, cancer, and colon cancer. Countries citizens who consume the most dairy have the highest rates of fractures and breast cancer. True carnivore and omnivore animals can kill prey with their knife teeth and claws, they have short intestines, they do not get heart disease, diabetes, or cancer. Enlarge this comparative anatomy chart found on mangodurian.blogspot.com/2015/08/heres-wonderful-chart-showing-our.html Mango durian dot blogspot dot com...cheers.
Absolutely
How can we talk about love, compassion, mercy, when we have our hands dirty with the blood of innocent beings who were created with feelings like ours, who feel fear, pleasure, pain, despair, etc., how does everyone here also feel? If that's how God wants men to act, I don't even want to imagine what the devil wants.
I dont believe god made animals to eat at all i feel that was the enemy that put that in ppls heads
@@philipodetola6 now its a new generation, tourchuring and killing animals just for u selfish or ignorant humans to eat is just not right, killing someone against their own will is a sin, the animals cry of pain when getting killed, they shake cuz they hear the screams of other animals, and scared of confusion, animals are so innocent and voiceless and i am gonna be their voice for the rest of my life cuz i feel deep sympathy for them
@@alexandracorona9926 animals arent incident they kill and rape each other if u want to be vegetarian fine but don't try to bring morals into something when you clearly benefit from it such as B12 and the phone or device you use today(child labour)
@@deondresealy7764 lol they are animals, as we are humans we have more intellegance and im not forcing down any morals on anyone lol😌😴im just saying what i believe in
@@deondresealy7764 lol what does a phone have to do with this conversation ? Get out of here hater 🤗
I have one question tho, why did God made animals with feelings if they were meant to be slaughtered?
A few common answers:
-To test us
-God simply doesnt care, would a human who creates an AI care if another AI they created kill one another?
-God doesn't exist, we were created by chance
Simple, god created everything with purpose, he created animals for companionship like dog cats, etc, and he created animals for nourishment for us since we are made in his image, and animals are not, and since he is the creator of everything including us, he does as he pleases with his creation and the same way my own life dont belongs to me but him, the animals lifes belongs to him ass well and they are his to give to us for nourishment the same way he blesses us with all other things, like a roof over our heads, s bed to sleep on, a Job to provide to our families, but like the pastor said, let's not meat eaters despise vegans, and you vegans dont pass Judgment on meat eaters, cause also our Lord said, it's not what enters the human mouth that defiles a person for all this goes to the latrines, but what comes out of our mouth what we speak from our hearts can be ill and harmful, or words of love and blessings.
@@marcellopuerta1125 your answer doesn't make any sense nor does it answer the question, the OP asked why did God give them feelings if they were not meant to be slaughtered, and you say "simple, because they were created for nourishment" , moreover, humans have selectively bred animals and that outcome has resulted in domesticated animals like dogs, cats etc, weaker wolves who couldn't hunt, would eat scrap food given to them by humans and eventually stay with them, breeding these animals resulted in the dogs we see today, same for cats. God doesn't give us a fkn job or roof over our head, humans make jobs and build houses, it was our own innovation. So tell me since you seem to know God on a one to one basis, why are so many Christ accepting people in Africa, homeless and dying of starvation?
@@LokeshThakur oh yes he does give us those things cause the bible says, not even a leaf fall from a tree whitout God's consent, he provides for me and my family in many ways and I owe everything I have and I dont deserve to him, as he has given to me he can take away, and if you going to come up with the old "oh if God is good why are they children starving in Africa" approach, it's not God fault and no one states that being Christian is going to be an easy task but they will have the ultimate reward at the end which is a everlasting life of peace and love in our Fathers presence, and what happens in Africa or anywhere in our world is not God's fault is the mans fault full of hatred and evil in their heart because they lack God in their lives and since satan is the ruler of this world bad things happened and he has legions of demons and strong demons at his command attacking a nation, to confuse and lie and make people doubt Gods love an Mercy, to make people believe we can be self sufficient without God which is the devil's ultimate lie, to turn people away from God, blessing for those people in Africa may be and end of this temporary life to live an eternity of happiness we dont know why God does everything he does, but we do know he does them for our own good as a Just and loving father, even though some times we dont see it as fair in our eyes or understanding he is God the beginning and the end, so we obey as our children obey us even though they see their parents unjust or unfair at the moment for something they want but later on they will recognized they parents did it for their best interest and to avoid them to suffer for a mistake, well God is the same Way, and I don't really care If you think my answer doesn't make sense, for me veganism doesn't make sense it's just a matter of different point of views and opinions so we should live and let live
Simple, so they could know that they are being slaughtered.
And how come the vegetarian is being called the weak person? When the results of the Daniël test was a healthier appareance...
Daniël 1:13,15- Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink.
At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food.
Barbara O, it is my understanding that the weakness referred to in that passage is of faith, not physical weakness.
Romans 14:1-3 (NLT)
"Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them."
So it says vegans have weaker faith than carnists?
they ate vegitarian food because the meat feel out side what allowed according to jewish custom and traditions hence chose to eat veg instead of breaking God ordinance , they where even required to be circumcised , we are notrequired to keep such ordinance because we are rightious by faith sister do you know there was a world leader who loved animals, a pure vegan puting vegetarians to shame , only world leader to ban animal testing, animal exploitation, etc he was also nominated for the noble peace price in 1939 for all his Good works , his name was Adolf Hitler many top ss officials where vegans and we all know what was really in his heart which was manifestated to the whole world just one year later ,dear bro/sis our lord was right in saying this
Mark 7:15 "It's not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart."
Matthew 15:11 "It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth."
Jesus only told us that if you love me obey God's camandments ie love your lord your God with all your heart and soul and loves your neighbours and enemies as your self.
@@jesuslovesmegalatians2205 I thought Hitler was vegetarian but in fact Hitler ate pigeon. It is well documented that he had cooks prepare it for him as it was his favorite foods. BiteSizeVegan has a great video on it and she sites her research along with her findings.
@@kirogurl it was true only until 1939 , after which he became a pure vegetarian, even though there was a great shortage of vegetables during the war he was always served the finest vegetarian food . It was during this period he committed most of his heinous crimes . Even if he was not vegetarian let's assume for sake of argument ,still there many vegetarian hindutva groups in gujarat that lynched and killed thousands of innocent muslims, even today the cow protection groups in India how mercilessly lynch people suspected of consuming beef are all Pure vegetarian . There is no link between ones charector and what they chose to eat . Christ served fish and bread to his disciples and those who came to attend his sermons had it been a sin he would have never encouraged it .
God is Love ... Being compassionate to animals is beautiful. One of the fruits of the spirit is Kindness and Gentleness So when we view animals we should view animals in love. We should not only be willingly to eat fruits and vegetables but also forsake our lives for the sake of our brothers and sisters. Loving one another is all its required in this life. God is beautiful. Everything that He has done is perfect. He is the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning the End. God is light. We should also pursue love never striving about what another brother eat but lifting and edifying one another in love.
And when we fail as we all must, Jesus our Christ is our blood sacrifice
Peter's vision in Acts 10 had nothing to do with food and certainly not with changing God's dietary restrictions. God changes not. The vision was to show Peter that the Gentiles were to recieve the gospel.
Brother I would disagree with you on this, but lest I cast a stumbling stone before you, understand what one eats is not a salvational issue, but rather an obedience unto sanctification. Therefore we examine the verses mentioned:
1 Cor. 10:24 is about eating things offered in sacrifice to devils. Gentile converts are warned not to partake of eating that which had been offered to false gods as the first baby steps towards walking with Christ. See Acts 15 and Acts 21. Paul's point here is not to go around in the meat market inquiring where the meat came from or for conscience sake causing a brother to stumble by openly and knowing eating such. This entire section of scripture is a call to flee idolatry, not a changing of Gods Laws regarding foods acceptable to be eaten.
Mark 7:19 Is about Jesus teaching that the rabbinic doctrine of eating with unwashed hands makes one unclean, which is a false man made doctrine. What makes a man unclean, in a deeper spiritual sense, is what comes from his heart and not what enters his stomach. See parallel verse in Matt. 15:17. The verse in Mark is difficult to discern as many translations have added to the word, so I would urge you to check it out in a interlinear to see what was actually written. I think you will find that there is no changing of Gods Laws here.
Romans 14 is about fasting and not judging those who do or don't fast on a given day, or what they eat or don't eat during such days. Let everyone of us be fully persuaded in our own minds for we shall all give an account of our lives before Christ. If you feel this verse gives you freedom to eat that which God has deemed unclean and not food then do so with a good conscience. However I would urge you to carefully consider Peter's warning that Paul's letters can be difficult to understand and are often twisted to justify the error of lawlessness. 2 Peter 3:15
Ought we not as Christ's disciples to walk as he did ? 1John 2:6.
Have heaven and earth passed away ? Matt. 5:18
Pick up your cross and follow him brother and great shall be your reward.
Peace
Tracy Romersa Amen
Incorrect, cause in that same verse, God spoke to Peter and said: "go kill and eat" and Peter refused 3 times (again) to eat what was deemed unclean, and Our Lord God himself responded:don't call what I have created unclean, all foods are declared Clean when blessed by the lord, I'm very scared that you dont realize that the Bible itself warns in the last days of false prophets and deceivers, constructing web of Lies, why don't you go do some research of ex vegans who quit after following the perfect Vegan Diets for years, admitted how they were feeling Chronic Fatigue, hair loss, premature aging, tooth rot and decay, nearing anorexia,strokes, skin problems, gastric problems, mental Fogness, not able to complete full sentences, early menopause on young women dont having periods for 6 months straight, lower sperm count, erectile disfunction, etc, as Cristians dont we be believe that if something is from the Lord it comes with blessing and good things, not damage to our selves which we are made in his image, and then this earthling Ed, a vegan spokesperson and promoter that vegans are calling him "the vegan Jesus, that he looks like Jesus, that he is Jesus who came back to show the world we have to be Vegan, please tell me in your hearts how you deem this ok? You know were that is going to, open your eyes and pray to the Lord for wisdom and Discernment.
@@marcellopuerta1125 that was the whole purpose of the vision. do you not know what a vision is? it wasn't literal. the message was, take the gospel to the "unclean". don't consider them unclean if God calls them clean.
Exactly, it still amazes me that people still don't read the whole passage???
I’m a Christian Vegan and this is a fairly good response. I think there is more that could be said about the pre-fall not being the ideal picture for our food consumption, but that rather it is after Christ’s resurrection is the ideal picture, not super convinced.
Regardless Piper’s use of Paul’s theology on food is a very good point that I can’t argue against.
Piper is right that the Bible isn’t really concerned with what you eat as much as it’s concerned with your heart, and both vegans and meat eaters that wield the Bible as a tool to “slay” their opponents are in danger of that two edged sword falling on themselves.
Whether you eat or drink, to God be the glory!
Andrew Arrington ... I want to point something out for all vegan Christians to consider: we do NOT live in a pre-fall world. Our natural environment isn't perfect or pristine as a result of the fall and THOUSANDS of years of decay. Our environment is "groaning", correct?? Because of this, humanity will never be able to meet its nutritional needs through a strictly plant based diet (without heavy supplementation).
I eat meat and you are right to God be the glory
dear brother/ sister do you know there was a world leader who loved animals, a pure vegan puting vegetarians to shame , only world leader to ban animal testing, animal exploitation, etc he was also nominated for the noble peace price in 1939 for all his Good works , his name was Adolf Hitler and we all know what was really in his heart which was manifestated to the whole world just one year later ,dear bro/sis our lord was right in saying this
Mark 7:15 "It's not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart."
Matthew 15:11 "It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth."
Jesus only told us that if you love me obey God's camandments ie love your lord your God with all your heart and soul and loves your neighbours and enemies as your self.
@@jesuslovesmegalatians2205 Adolf Hitler was neither vegetarian nor vegan. Any simple research would find he ate a meat regularly.
@@RealmWalker during the war years, he transitions into vegetarianism if you go by eye witness testimony as far 1938 he had a vegetarian diet. There are many more sources that show that he was vegetarian in the latter part of his life
Adolf Hitler and vegetarianism - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Adolf...
Yep, in Genesis God commanded mankind and animals eat the fruit and seeds of the ground🙏 and the descriptions of Heaven are vegan: ‘The lion will eat grass with the lamb.’
@@bambisotelo the video title states “God’s original design” Genesis is exactly that.
@Nath Krishna Luke 24:42-43
They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.
(this is the first thing he ate after being resurrected!)
He also ate lamb as a law-abiding Jew! See Mark 14:12-21
Then ask for blood sacrifices ?
If it clogs your heart then God didn't intend for you to eat it.
All truth is self evident
Preach
What are the wages of sin?
death is the wages of sin
@@moosestubbings1853 exactly. It has nothing to if clogs heart God dint want it. Jesus said it's not what go in your mouth and expelled out your body what defies you, but what could out of it.
Plus this video proves we are meat in eden. ruclips.net/video/oSBNSxicMgc/видео.html
@@joshuacarson6576 eating meat gives man a greater propensity to sin.
Veganism is not about what one eats, it’s about committing, causing, or paying for the murder or exploitation of a sentient being who has the capacity for love but is condemned to feel pain and suffering. “What one eats” is simply straw-manning the vegan position. You claim that peace and love is what is important, but that is the entire vegan position. Is there peace and love in a slaughterhouse?
I don’t think these guys recognize the dynamics of supply and demand for animal products and what must occur to bring a piece of meat to their plates. Because if they did, they would have a much tougher time defending needless brutal throat-slitting than defending “what one eats.”
Well said!
I disagree strongly
Strongly agree with you, man.
@Come Out Of Her My People friend, you must be careful how you conduct yourself to the world. Christ doesn't want us quarreling with people like this, especially over something simple like what to eat and not eat.
Remember the weightier matters of the law, of such love is the chief law.
Our Lord said the whole law hangs on two commandments, see that you obey them over the old law, because in doing so, you will truly be obedient to the old law by God's Grace.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself.
Love is gentle, patient, kind, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, and covers a multitude of sins.
17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3:17-18)
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God (Matthew 5:9)
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
You must know that these people are not being built up by what you're doing, but rather the Name of Christ is being misrepresented.
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. See that you abide in Christ and His Words so that you may bear much fruit.
Apart from Him you can do nothing, even if you're trying to use His Word to do it.
Grace and mercy and peace be to you in the name of Jesus
@Come Out Of Her My People "Tell that to a God who demanded animal sacrifices. Tell that to Jesus who ate fish and passover lamb. Your New Age beliefs do not align with holy scripture."
1. Yes, THEN it was necessary to make them (Adam and Eve) garments of skins in order to clothe them by His Truth. But NOW you kill animals unnecessarily just for fun, just for joy, not for surviving. THEN the Lord obviously killed two animals to show them an example that they should kill animals for sacrificing, too: those offered animals would anticipate the Savior. But NOW we know that "it was not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins", NOW we have to kill animals not any longer, for "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" and by (t)his "offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sacrificed".
2. Yes, THEN the Lord ordered to that primitive, nomadic, stiffhearted people in the wilderness that they should eat the flesh of the passover lamb up, but NOW we know that "our Passover Lamb (i.e. Christ) has been sacrificed for us". So good news: we don't need to live NOW just they did in the Bronze Age.
3. Yes. THEN Jesus ate meat or rather the circumstances forced Him to suffer eating meat. Your circumstances don't force you to kill sentient, innocent creatures, you kill them unnecessarily, although you could easily and abundantly eat something else in a more cruelty-free way without converting to "New Age", bro...
What a beautiful and loving explanation of what really matters to God - His people!! I'm a whole food plant based vegan because it makes me feel great! I would never want my dietary choice to cause another to stumble, though. I'd rather that person see the love of God within me rather than what I put in my mouth :)
May I ask, how can you eating habits cause another to stumble? And how do you combat that? I am interested, just to be sure I am not doing the same!
@@nikhefe16 Hi :-) Yes, of course!! What I meant was I'd rather talk of the love of Jesus & encourage each other. Sometimes our food choices can cause division. I'd rather enjoy the company of the person I'm with, in unity, rather than debate which diet is best. I hope that helps! Have a blessed day :)
Oh so if you were an animal with feelings you wouldn’t matter to god and just suffer how is that okay
Why do animals not matter at all?
Why would a loving God create animals to be conscious and sentient, and yet not matter at all? 🙄
@@diannafinewood2639 think one can share why one chooses to eat a vegan whole food diet in a kind and loving way. Just like anything, it’s usually the other getting defensive that causes the strife. That’s when , I feel to stop the conversation or change course. People refuse to acknowledge the food they eat is not only bad for them but it came on their plate as a result of life long torture of animal.
Catholic and vegan here. 2 years Catholic. 5 years vegan. Christian my whole life. I'm so grateful for this path. It all seems so clear to me now and I want to help shine the light for others.
There have been a few Christian vegetarians, such as Fred Rogers or Albert Schweitzer. But overall it's been a very small minority.
As a teenager I was a vegetarian and a Christian.
I DONT BELIEVE THAT JESUS WOULD APPROVE OR BLESS WHAT WE ARE DOING TO HIS BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS INSIDE THE SLAUGHTER HOUSES...I HAVE CHOSEN TO LIVE IN HARMONY WITH ALL OF THE ANIMALS N MAMMELS....WE CAN BE HEALTHY WITHOUT KILLING N EXPLOITING ANIMALS N THEIR BABIES...❤
and we can be healthy eating animals too
I'm disappointed Pastor John. Everything I've heard you preach on so far rings truth for me and you usually give your perspective or interpretation of the bible as it speaks to you , but on this topic you solely quoted only a few selected passages from the bible and did not seem to reflect on this more. Yes the most important message here is of 'love', so why not reflect on that further...look into the meat , dairy, fish, egg, leather industries etc and ask 'would Jesus be a part of these industries in today's world' and where is the "love" regarding these industries where animals are bred into existence purely to be used and abused out of greed not need. Judge not another for what he eats but we will all be held accountable for every act that is not in accordance with love and compassion. To be vegan is loving God, is for God and has nothing to do with diet. Love. And 'yes' to not kill, harm or wear an animal if you don't need to is closer to God's original design.
Christians can kill humanely. They have been given this power by God. The right to decide who lives, and who dies.
Dan LOL that's like telling a rapist to go ahead and rape children as long as he gives thanks first. Cruel farming methods? It's all cruel, stealing babies from mother cows happens on "local" farms and they all end up at the slaughterhouse. Stop defending your own addiction to flesh unless you like worshipping the devil.
myoul mina Yeh, blowing heads off animals in the forest and then carving up their corpses and eating their flesh is REAL Christian.
Love isn’t how these companies are treating the animals
@@harveyplantharvester1502 eating meat isn't the same as rape what is wrong with you?
Would god himself kill or exploit any animal that he has created?
This is like killing his own children, I suppose.
Yes! And furthermore, if animals were to be for food, why would God instill them with sentience and the ability to feel love when they’re supposed to be met with pain?
Have you ever seen a video of a slaughterhouse? It was a very different time then, cows were not artificially inseminated just to have babies torn away from them as the mothers cry in mourning so that their babies can be veal for people to buy. We have taken "dominion" over the animals (Genesis 1) and used to to be a power-demanding corrupt money-making meat industry.
Children of God are blessed with the ability to mercilessly kill at will for gluttony and pleasure. How cool is that! I want to be a Christian! I just wish I could slit an animals throat with my bare hands because that's what you need to do to be Christian.
@@bbiggie97 you idiot, animals kill other animals for food understand the food chain
@@juliuscox94 How is that even an argument?
There will be no killing in heaven....
No sin and no eating in heaven either.
@@tabandken8562 wrong. Thentree of life produces fruit for the healing of nations
@@ethanbolen4425 Jesus is the Tree of Life. Besides, even if there is eating in heaven, this isn't heaven. The bible declares all food is clean and you are not to judge another for what they eat.
@@tabandken8562 The Bible says that, but it’s Paul that says this, but God says fruits , vegetables and seeds will be your nutrition. So, who should We believe God or Paul?
@@jmm3688 God and Paul was inspired by God. God commanded to eat meat. Jesus is God and ate meat and commanded Peter to eat meat. Jesus gave the parable of the prodigal son which included celebrating with the fattened calf, something He wouldn't include in a parable if meat was to be forbidden. Sorry, you're wrong.
Paul’s argument in Romans wasn’t about meat vs vegan. It was about meat sacrificed to pagan gods. Paul Leboutillier from Calvary Chapel has a great sermon on this.
Correct, in Romans chapter 14, the author (presumably Paul), was talking about the sensitivity of newly converted Christians (who were once Pagan), to eating meat and dead flesh from animals who were being sacrificed to idols by other Pagans and Polytheists in the city, because they still saw it as "blasphemous" since they still had residual Polytheistic beliefs.
Paul was talking about the animal parts leftover from bulls and cows and goats and chickens and sheep that were being sacrificed to IDOLS, it had nothing to do with the ethical treatment of animals, which wasn't even an issue in first century Palestine, because women and children didn't even have the rights back then that modern ethics and morality have thankfully afforded to them now.
God is very intelligent and created all natural foods for us to eat and if you look at all the natural food each food does something for each part of our bodies what an amazing God he knew exactly what our bodies would need and meat and dairy is Not one of them
Spot on he made us vegan for a very good reason , I’ve put my thoughts on here God bless x
HEAVEN --- ALL ABOUT MORALITY
In heaven, everyone is a pacifist vegetarian with no more wealth then the poor.
dont make up things
Look at the animals being slaughtered, is God with this? It's his creation and we should respect it and love it just like humans and nature.
Look at the rationale argument of this if God wanted to end animal slaughter he would have no problem doing it but since he allows it. It shows he doesn't really care
@@juliuscox94 God Is patient and He values our free will more than the animal's lives. Not that He doesn't care for His creation, but if He stepped in every time someone made a wrong choice, we'd all be dead...
this argument is terrible because plants are also God's creation. We should respect that. Trees are God's creation. We should respect those. Metal is God's creation... You start to see that you can't really use that
The Amazon forest is almost gone BECAUSE OF THE LUST FOR MEAT. And I am grieved at that loss to the health of the whole planet. If Christians are to celebrate the destruction of our water table and the pollution of the air and land because of animal waste and the methane causing the warming of the atmosphere, that Christians are only interested in remaining selfish even more than atheists, who care about this all over the place, all I can say, is SHAME ON YOU!
Christians should take the lead on protecting the planet and not protecting the right to eat meat when they can live and live well without all this destruction of the environment in order to make gluttons of themselves. The majority of Vegans are not obese! What hypocrites!!!!
That's not because of meat eating -_-
We're all hypocrites in the eyes of God. Including me, and you. I'm not trying to nullify your concerns (which I think are valid), but just trying to encourage you to reorder your priorities and deal with them in order.
Forgiveness is key, if Christ has forgiven us for all the wrong we've done, whether in ignorance or with knowledge, then we must strive to show forgiveness and patience with others as God has to us.
Throwing extra fuel in the fire is not going to change anything anyway. Even if your concern is valid (on any subject for that matter), it won't be received and won't help at all if you don't do it in love. The wisdom that's from God is always seasoned with Love, gentleness, patience, forgiveness, kindness, etc..
17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3:17-18)
Those who've been forgiven much, love much! And I believe if you're approach started with forgiveness instead of condemnation, then it would be effective for good. :)
Grace and peace from the Lord Jesus Christ to you
I hear no love in your comment. Speak the truth in love
@@maikeruasmr8591 It actually is because of meat eating! The amazon rainforest is destroyed to make room to raise cattle.
@@supplantermusic9413 Why do you suppose their is so much obesity and heart disease and crippling arthritis and cancer? And those who go vegan avoid these diseases and more. So in order to make you feel good, vegan Christians are not being considerate to you’re desire for flesh foods. That only means you feel guilty. The best way to avoid guilt is to change your behavior.
My husband got cancer following your advice, and he was one of 4 who got cancer and retired all with prostate cancer. He has eaten vegan since his surgery. The other three are dead. Why not tell me it is God’s will for my husband to be dead. I was in a wheelchair from arthritis, my mind was getting forgetful (my father died of Alzheimer’s), and it is clear now and I live pain-free.
You just suffer till your dying day and eat your meat. What they put in meats was unknown in Jesus’ day. Our oceans and rivers are polluted.
The doctors who study veganism which is whole food plant-based find that eating vegan is healthy, even the WHO (the World Health Organization) says that a WFPB (Whole Food Plant-Based) diet is appropriate for all stages of life. Vegan children do better in schools. The only Blue Zone to be found in North America is Loma Linda, CA where the largest proportion of vegetarians live and many are vegans. They live longer and are more disease-free than any other Americans and they are not fat. Most are well-educated. No, I am not SDA. But if it works, and I am healthier, I can serve God far better than losing my mind and being so crippled I can’t even knit.
Good Grief! Doctors can reverse diabetes prescribing a WFPB diet, endometriosis is reversed so women who were infertile, can have children. As to diabetics, when their feet turn black due to their disease, they are normally amputated. You want them to follow your advise? You really would prefer to have no feet if diabetes overcomes you this way than to risk looking like you were depending upon your works?
Guess what! John the Baptist came preaching repentance and Jesus did too. Veganism is a form of fasting as I fast from animal foods so I can be a better person. No animals suffer on account of me. Never did animals sacrifices take away sin. Now that plant foods are so available, getting all you need from plants is very possible but it does take some learning.
It takes no learning to pat yourself on the back and say “what a good boy am I”. I spent 5 years to study the diet before I want to and become vegan. At that time I was really motivated as I could not walk.
You can have your stints if you want them so badly, but that is very expensive and our nation is going broke trying to cater to fat people who can’t control their appetites. They are putting addictive substances in those foods which is why since 1950, weight has been climbing. A few years ago, about 25% of people were obese, then it was 50%, now they say that 75% of Americans will be obese or overweight. Have you not read that God was not happy with Hophni and Phineas? They ate the fat, which they were not supposed to do. All meats we eat are HIGH IN FAT!
The people before refrigeration could not possibly eat the way we do and were slim. At best they might eat meat, the common man, when their village had a celebration. The king was the one who ate an meat-based diet. King Henry the VIII was famous for this gross obesity and his gout.
My mother suffered from gouty arthritis, my arthritis did not affect my feet. And I do not want it back.
Enjoy yours if you so desire. But I can serve the Lord better being healthy and alive than dying as my father did, not even knowing who I was.
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, is it not? Then why do you want to eat yourself into disease? The pills the doctors give you “manage” disease, they cannot cure them. Both my husband and I had asthma too and we do not have it any longer. Something that the doctors claim is impossible. In ten years since going vegan I have not had the flu or a single cold. Viruses need an acidic body to reproduce but my body as are all vegans, alkaline.
You have fattened your heart in a day of slaughter, was this a good thing or a bad one? Moreover you encourage others to be as sick as you are. Jesus is the Creator, He referred to Genesis many times. The only time it is certain that Jesus ate fish was after His resurrection and it was to prove He rose bodily. Due to translation, the term “fish” in the Gospels could have referred to “fish weed”, a known condiment for bread. These miracles of feeding the 5,000 and the 4,000, were out in the hot sun for hours at a time. Now the bread would have endured this and remained edible. But the fish? Highly unlikely unless it had been dried and salted. We understand what it is to live with refrigeration and not without it. Had Jesus given people salted fish instead, the thirst would have been great. He did not split a rock at that time and pour out water. The sensible translation there would be “fish weed”, the condiment for the bread.
What shall I say? You can eat your way to disease, or eat your way to health. What is God’s will in a time of gross pollution is that the plant-foods are less toxic. That is why they can still heal.
If you want to serve God and lead by example, the Bible challenges us to try God, to test or as it actually says, “taste”. The Lord is our Bread, and He did not change the design or our body due to a flood. By our very physiology, we are designed to eat plant-foods, we have a long digestion tract and our salvia has 3 copies of the enzyme to digest starch. Carnivores do not have that. All herbivores have an appendix, we have an appendix. If you feed ground up dead sheep to a sheep, their legs grow crooked, to feed cows, dead cows, is where Mad Cow disease came from. People in New Guinea eating the next tribe, went mad for all of these created prion disease. When they slaughter beef, they cut from nose to tail so they cut through the brain and if the animal has prion disease, it isn’t going to be destroyed by cooking it. Prions remain even after an animals is cremated.
We live in the age of God’s judgment and the Bible tells that men would not repent despite the warnings. If we are to survive to tell the message of the cross and salvation, the best way to survive these plagues is to be vegan as it give you and I the best opportunity to live. Medications are becoming useless as most antibiotics are given to animals to keep them well enough to slaughter. So when you eat meat, your body also is becoming immune to antibiotics. We were fortunate to have President Trump who laid aside regulations in order to get the world a vaccine for Covid. He was more prayed for than any man.
Prayer is one thing, God’s miracles are another as if miracles happened every time we prayed, they would not be rare and would cease being “miraculous”. When you pray, do you ask God to “give us this day our daily bread” or what you are actually considering “bread” is your excuses to continue to eat meat in a time you are going to be sicker and want God to keep you well despite? God cures alcoholics but they are NOT drinking after He delivers them. If you were a drug addict, I’d tell you to pray intensely and quit as if either of us were alcoholics. To eat an animal laden with drugs is to take drugs. Why are so many lacking in self-control? Self-control is one of the fruits of the spirit. I can show you my self-control in that after quitting meat, I lost 60 pounds and have kept it off for 10 years. I do not eat less but more food but that food does not make me fat as it is nearly fat-free. I do not use oils or fats and eat only a few nuts which are grated, no more than a tablespoonful.
I reversed getting diabetes, and the cancer which killed my mother and sister, as well as the Alzheimer’s disease which took my grandmother and my father, are no longer my destiny. Can you say as much? When you pray, does God take the blood-guilt ness away from you for participating in a wholesale slaughter of innocent animals? They are not being saved because of me I know, but if Christians would wake up and think, this could change.
But you have to do that little word you do not like, and that is “repent”. It does stick in the throat more than the meat.
My heart tells me no. So I’m vegan.
That's fine, but there's nothing wrong with being an omnivore.
@@ifeanyichukwu3644 yes there is the murder and torture of God's creatures when we have the option not to. Lotta Christians gonna be pissed off when they die and get judged by God for thier actions on earth.
@@kahlernygard809 that isnt how it works. murder is referring to humans not animals. that is because we eat animals. 🤦♂️ You'll be surprised if you go to heaven.
@@ifeanyichukwu3644 I'm in hell now watching you sick fucks kill and torture animals daily for your personal pleasure. Death will be the release
The Mark 7:10 quote of "Thus he declared all foods clean." is in parentheses, it's not in the early manuscripts, it's an addition by a copyist. Test everything.
Not only that... "thus he declared...." is a _translator's_ interpretive paraphrase of what may be a copyist's notes. The way the KJV renders the verse captures the cool personality & instructive wit of Jesus:
Mark 7:18-19
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, *but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?* 😊☺️
This is an issue (at least in part) because Piper uses the ESV. The ESV is a rather _poor_ translation (with errant English diction, jerky prose, inconsistent footnoting, etc) and, although Crossway bills it as word-for-word, it is most certainly not.
To which I respond, spend an afternoon reading several chapters of the NASB (+ footnotes), the KJV, the YLT, the Mounce translation. and the ESV verse by verse, side by side. Also, throw in the NIV. It will become readily apparent, fairly early into the afternoon that the ESV is not what you think it is.
"Well but..." No folks. It's not. If you want a good modern word for word, go NAS. Older, go KJV.... if you want a paraphrase.... go NIV. At least the NIV is fairly high quality writing.
Sorry Ken, for mini rant. ( / rant)
I rue the day Piper switched from NASB.... and MacArthur from NKJV to ESV. Blech.
I was about to say that Piper spent too much time worrying about division, but then I read the comments.
Well there can't be any peace as long as animals scream in slaughterhouses.
Correct, we are not to judge, we are meant to inform and love.
Btw, unless you raise and murder your own animals they are NOT clean or pure ;) look up the
"Land of hope and glory" documentary
And the biblical vegan ;)
Eating meat mass produced is making us all stumble. It is an issue of health. Vegan is healthier, therefore you will be happier, I want you to be happy and healthy because I love you and want you to endure less pain ;)
veganism did nothing for me. I resisted that cult.
I agree
Pay for hell on earth towards animals. Say it's OK if you love the Father...
If we really pray about and give thanks for our diet. Glutony is a big sin for us that can afford food, and that means if we overeat, eat without thanks, or put food as a idol, and more. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. Think about the people that have no food or very limited rations. Whatever you do (eat or drink) let it be for God's glory!
Remember this first: As Christians, we are to preach and live the Gospel every day. Period. Nothing else on a spiritual sense matters. That being said: there is NO DOUBT that eating vegan, as originally intended is better for personal health. So, as long as you put the Gospel FIRST, it is more than okay to let your brothers and sisters know that if they ate better, they'd feel better, THEN love them enough to accept their choice.
Wow, even religious people try to find excuses for torture and murder of animals. Being vegan and orthodox christian myself I could never go back to eating animal products. I even grew up with animals like pigs and my grandpa treated them well but they eventually had to be killed and I never enjoyed the taste of meat. Its something innate that guided me towards veganism and i only wish I had done it sooner.
I'm an Orthodox☦🙏🏻Christian vegan too 😊
There was something innate in me as well where I never liked meat - everything from the thought of those sweet animals, the taste, the texture. I finally felt my true authentic self when I stopped feeling like I had to eat meat, and went fully vegan. I have been fully vegan for 2 years now and I won’t ever go back! I am finally living free!
...until what you eat makes you die young. That's not love toward those whom you're called to bless
I agree with everything Pastor John said, but I feel like he got away from the question. The question was not about it being sinful or not. Clearly it’s not... but the question was over the original design of man. And to defend Pastor John again.. it’s not like he can really answer that with Scripture any better than he did. Well done!
It's pretty simple. He designed us perfectly and it was perfect in the garden of Eden, when he clearly states in Gen 1:29 that we were vegan, just as he designed. Then sin came into the world and we all started to be a bunch of muppets and started killing baby animals and eating their corpse for fun, because, unno, Satan. Do Christians forget Satan rules the world? Killing babies is the work of Satan, not God. We all need to wake up to this! We're destroying God's creatures, who he entrusted us to look after, for fun and laughs and a bit of a taste pleasure people. He is going to be PISSED!
@@mattroberg7728 He's pissed about sin, not about us eating animals.
@@tabandken8562 That's right, eating animals is sin.
@@mattroberg7728 Nope. And you cannot prove it is.
@@tabandken8562 I don't need to prove it is. As long as I have planted the seed of doubt in your mind then I have succeeded. Prove that it's not a sin ;)
Anyone who thinks that Paul was talking about food when describing health completely missed the point.
But we have to accept, that the foods and animals these days have not been mass grown. They didn‘t have huge slaughterhouses and farms for thousands of people. They were far more connected to the food they ate and raised. So we have to take that in consideration too. Times have changed. Jesus would not be happy these days with the way we went. All a learning process in my opinion. And humanity is learning quick now. Amen. 😊❤️🙏🏼
Partly true....but during passover....lambs were slain for millions of people under the law of moses. Thats a lot of lambs...one per family would be at least hundreds of thousands of lambs.
God made the animals who are the most close to humans biologically speaking as omnivores, who eat mostly plant materials supplemented by a little animal protein. This is the ideal balance of diet for humans too, and our bodies are designed accordingly.
The bottom line is, you can make the Bible say anything you want it to say. Its content is so diverse and contradictory, it can literally support ANY issue or cause, whether right or wrong, from either side.
nah
How can anyone dislike this?? It's clearly all biblical truth, not merely pastor Piper's opinion.
Troy Burtwell agenda? There’s fast food chain restaurants on every damn corner
“Meat” in the Bible meant nourishment. And all “food” is clean... must be a food to be considered clean. Carcass of animals in not food to me and never will be. Also, animals do get me nourishment, but not in the form of nutrition. They give me nourishment in the form of emotional bonding and connection. Pigs are smarter than dogs, elephants are arguably smarter than humans in ways, dolphins speak in high frequencies etc. You can be friends with animals just as much as people, if not better sometimes.
While we can agree that God didn't intend for us to use factory and battery farming with chemicals, drugs and cruelty, we are permitted to eat any type of meat we like.
The active promotion of veganism has everything to do with 1 Timothy 4:3 being fulfilled.
N M M what about those who eat fruits and vegetables for health reasons. I know some people who don’t have health problems when they only eat fruits and vegetable.
Hello. If you read that passage from verse 1 Paul it says that in the last days some will depart from the faith and he goes on to list examples of what this will look like. Verse 3 is him continuing on that list in saying that people in the last days will forbid this.. but this is not biblical.
@disciple duSeigneur friend, you must be careful how you conduct yourself to the world. Christ doesn't want us quarreling with people like this, especially over something simple like what to eat and not eat.
Remember the weightier matters of the law, of such love is the chief law.
Our Lord said the whole law hangs on two commandments, see that you obey them over the old law, because in doing so, you will truly be obedient to the old law by God's Grace.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself.
Love is gentle, patient, kind, doesn't keep a record of wrongs, and covers a multitude of sins.
17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3:17-18)
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God (Matthew 5:9)
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
You must know that these people are not being built up by what you're doing, but rather the Name of Christ is being misrepresented.
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. See that you abide in Christ and His Words so that you may bear much fruit.
Apart from Him you can do nothing, even if you're trying to use His Word to do it.
Grace and mercy and peace be to you in the name of Jesus
Would perception change if we referred to "meat" as what it really is? The animals are not "its". They are not "meat" until they are slaughtered and chopped into bits. The distinction is between those who eat animals and those who do not. Do we view animals themselves as individuals or as food?
Leviticus Ch11
_Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: _*_"These are the animals which you may eat_*_ - whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud... all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers."_
I edited it to save space (it's very wordy and I didn't list the exceptions), but clearly God tells us that we _can_ eat meat.
1 Timothy Ch4:
_"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times _*_some will depart from the faith,_*_ giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, _*_speaking lies_*_ in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and _*_commanding to abstain from foods which God created_*_ to be received with thanksgiving by those who _*_believe and know the truth._*_ For _*_every creature of God is good,_*_ and _*_nothing is to be refused_*_ if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."_
God's "original" design is irrelevant. The Garden Of Eden existed *in the beginning.* Back then there _was no_ killing. There was only Adam and Eve and they didn't kill each other. Animals didn't kill other animals either. It was a place of perfect peace. However, we all know the story. They ate the apple and fell out of God's graces and _things changed!_ They no longer lived in harmony with nature and all of God's creation. They had to _work_ the earth to grow food and death came into the world. People killed people and animals now hunted and killed other animals. Being vegan should not be a religious choice, it should be a lifestyle choice. Nothing is wrong with being a vegan but *after* the days of the Garden of Eden, God now explicitly tells us that we _can_ eat meat. So any Christians out there who feel like condemning people who eat meat, be _very careful_ and consider God's words in 1 Timothy above.
@AlmondButter I know, but until then, God gave us the concession to eat meat. So until the end comes, don't mind me while I enjoy my steak or hot dog.
@AlmondButter How is killing animals for food murder? How am I murdering anything? And I *know* God didn't say we *have* to eat meat, but he said we *could.* Do you know what "could" means? It means we *can* if we *want* to. Why is that so hard to understand?
Gen 1:11 #Vegan
#Anti-Vegan
Maikeru ASMR #GTFOH
Genesis 9:3
@@xiadani_figueroa If eating meat is so "good" then why did He allow it after the Flood only? Why not from the Beginning...?
@@gaborszadai1992 Because everything that God has made for food is good. God himself sacrificed animals. If you want to know God I challenge you to read the scriptures fully. Otherwise do not comment on what you do not know.
The question is not why did he allow it? But the statement is that God commands, and we live by his commandments. Therefore there is no condemnation if an animal enters my mouth, but there is judgment for what comes out of my mouth and gluttony which are two different things.
I have an 11-year old cat, but I will never compare her worth to the worth of a human being.
I would sacrifice my own cat if it meant feeding 50 children under God's will.
It is by God's wisdom and power that the most merciful diet, whole food plant based veganism, is the healthiest diet. To say the God permits meat eating today is to say that God approves of cruelty to animals. So by the logic presented in this video, by having mercy upon animals by avoiding cruelty to them, I, and other vegans, are more merciful than God. That is not possible, and therefore the argument in this video must be incorrect.
What I need help with is why would God allow animals to eat each other? I saw a video the other day of lions eating an animal while it was still alive and the animal just had to sit there and suffer slowly. Why would an all loving God punish animals with suffering when they are innocent? I’ve heard the “when we sinned, it affected the whole world” answer, but I just don’t know if I like/except that answer
Why would God promise a land flowing with milk and honey if He wanted us to be vegan?
Jonathan Grandt its a metaphor. Not to be taken literal.
And if the milk and honey came from animals and bees,then there won't be much to flow like a river. It is either metaphorical or somekind of a miraculous scenery that doesn't come from animals and bees.
Pastor John didn’t answer the question posed in the video title, at least not that I could tell. I think the answer is yes.
it is an unknown
“Thou shall not kill.”
Problem solved.
And that is the same for all religions.
@@thatveganmuslim Yes. The nonviolent principle of Ahimsa. The Golden Rule applies to how we treat everyone, including animals.
The word kill meant murder.
Enivo How do you kill an animal that wants to live without murdering it?
@@sethrakes1991
Kill: To cause the death of a living thing.
Murder: To unjustly kill another human.
I hate how my parents forced me to eat meat when I was younger
Everyone focusses straight at justifying their desires using scripture, rather than looking at who the God of Scripture is, learning about the situation, and then seeing if the heartbeat of God is even in what they're defending. And most of the time I feel that the Christians making their defense feel so strongly about eating meat (because they like it and it's comfortable), that they do not apply the morality of the heart of God to the slaughterhouse. I encourage every Christian not to shy away from educating themselves on the common slaughterhouse practices of today, and while watching what happens to these animals, asking themselves if they see God there.
I can certainly tell you, I don't see the Christian God in the common slaughterhouse practices. In fact, I see an absence of him there. (For the record, I am a Christian Vegan, unimpressed with fellow Christians' justification for meat consumption thus far, as most of the people who make these videos do not even educate themselves on common slaughterhouse practice before standing up in defense of meat, with very little convincing moral evidence to supply.)
there is nothing wrong with eating meat smh
I think as a vegan, as a nurse, and as a Christian that if our bodies are the temple why would we fill them with essentially what is corpses and make it a cemetery? Daniel also was vegan or vegetarian (don't know if he ate dairy or eggs during that time but from verses in scripture I'd say vegan) during the test of 10 days and was healthier. Why would that even be included in the Bible? Does it add to the Gospel? It clearly points to health. We don't live in the past. We live now. We know that CAFOs are detrimental for the environment and to the health of the community where they are located (higher levels of lung diseases in communities with CAFOs). We know meat consumption leads to coronary artery disease, same with dairy products. We aren't saying that eating meat is a sin. The blatant disregard for the creatures God created, the abuse and exploitation they endure is real. We cannot remain ignorant to that.
_our bodies are the temple why would we fill them with essentially what is corpses and make it a cemetery?_
We don't "fill" our bodies with meat. Meat is just a _part_ of a healthy diet. Over consuming _anything_ can be detrimental to your health, even water.
_Daniel also was vegan or vegetarian (don't know if he ate dairy or eggs during that time but from verses in scripture I'd say vegan) during the test of 10 days and was healthier. Why would that even be included in the Bible?_
Regardless of whether or not Daniel was a vegetarian/vegan, he was _not_ put on earth to be an example to _all of God's people_ of what kind of diet to have. He was _one man_ and what _he chose to do in _his life_ has no bearing on _anyone else._ As far as why was that story about him abstaining from meat and wine in the bible? Many vegans use that story as "evidence" that we are supposed to be vegan, but that story has _nothing to do_ with "God wants us to be vegan". The reason Daniel abstained from meat and wine was because the way that they were prepared were not in accordance of his Jewish dietary laws and were almost certainly sacrificed to pagan idols.
@sierramikain6671 thank you for that response
I a vegan love you all and I’m still learning to love better everyday regardless of what you eat or do know you will always be loved and forgiven by the lord and I love you ❤️
current laws allow industralised animal cruelty in every process of animal agriculture.... labels such as free-range, organic, grass-fed, humane meat are misleading... one does not have a choice but be vegan if you do not want to inflict the legalised animal cruelty in animal industry
I think we start wrong by descussing this basing ourselves on a book writen centuries ago... Today's reallity and needs are completly diferent. Today we have alternatives that centuries ago mankind wouldn't have. People were surviving, and today most of the civilized word has a lot to choose from... Why chose cruelty?!
The argument "All foods are clean" is not a good one in my opinion... Is it ok if someone decides another human to be part of his diet? Is that "clean food"? If not, why? What makes it justifiable to do it to other animals and not with the human kind?
Other thing i don't understant is why would we consider what happens behind the walls of slaughter houses? That would be a thing that a benevolant good would do or a work of devil?
If we look what really happens in the industries of meat, fish, dairy we would see how wrong it is with the values that most religions try to pass. There is no peace, no belevolence, no love, no empathy, no respect, no kindness in killing inocent sentient beings... Or do religions defende cruelty, death, arrogance, slavery, suffering, death? I don't think so...
The way animals are raised and killed for most of the meat in the USA is very heartless and cruel. I don't see a issue of extending compassion towards animals and calling out people that don't.
How we treat animals has a significant effect on how we experience love in the world. For some, animals give them the greatest love in life.
I've been vegetarian for 5 years & it's been great journey! I choose this lifestyle cuz i loveee animals & it's not fair that animals suffer and get killed for just a plate a food , god didn't create suffering nor killing right? So yea ((: 💓 but i respect those who eat animals
Why do you respect them
Thank you very informative.
How long will the land mourn, and the grass of every field wither? For the wickedness of those who live in it
the animals and the birds are swept away, and because people said, speaking of god ‘He is blind to our ways.” though it was they who do not see
But those who choose their own ways- delighting in their detestable sins- will not have their offerings accepted. When such people sacrifice a bull, it is no more acceptable than a human sacrifice. When they sacrifice a lamb, it’s as though they sacrifice dogs
God institutes a plant-based diet for both humans and non-human animals
God said, “Look! i create every seed-bearing plant throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food
and to all the animals of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food”
Hence, if food can lead my brother to sin, I will never again eat meat lest I cause the downfall of one of my brethren
You stray from that only if you choose not to live God's perfect vision a world without killing animal death
Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat
Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat or do anything that causes your brother to fall.
Do not be as those savage beast, those predators
do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats
But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the royal rations of food and wine … Then Daniel asked … ‘Let us be given vegetables to eat and water to drink.’ … At the end of ten days it was observed that they appeared better and fitter than all the young men who had been eating the royal rations.” -Daniel 1:8, 11-12, 15
those that hate me love death
A plant based whole food diet, primarily, is hands down the most healthful diet today!! The evidence is indisputable. So much available to prove this to be true today. It is not an issue that meat eating is wrong. It is just, do you want to thrive for the few minutes of life we have down here OR not??!!
It's not that it's wrong or sinful if you do. It's just that you're a bad person and should be ashamed.
Amen!
Uh no…look into whole foods keto and carnivore…the culprit is sugar and carbs…not meat…
When I came to Christ I asked God if He wants me to be vegan since I'm a Christian now. His response was that I can eat anything with gratitude without concern and that the ones who torture animals will be held accountable before God, He will judge them righteously. Same thing with clothes. Just look up the conditions your clothes are made in, you'd have to walk around naked if you'd want to protect the people working there underpaid and in child labor. But God has His judgement already prepared for those who exploit others.
Amen and God bless you for speaking the truth.
So if you could buy one carrot, and buying this special carrot caused someone to make a billion people stop existing, that would be okay on your view? You could just not buy the carrot and the person will not do the deed.
If your answer is yes, I want you to really consider whether or not it’s actually God you’re talking to. That doesn’t sound like the God I believe in.
@@whyZaya I agree with you. God will hold us accountable with how much need we had vs. how much we consumed. Not only in meat, also in the measure of how much we eat while others are starving. Monasteries live without meat completely and the greatest saints of history only ate bread and fasted a lot.
@@yasminpanasjuk682 What I’m getting at is that if we can do a very small action to prevent someone else from doing something horrible, we should do that small action, even if it’s something like walking 10 feet to get the almond milk instead of the cows’ milk.
We naturally don't like blood, our teeth and fingers are not designed to tear raw meat. Our teeth are like those of herbivores who masticate/crush vegies with the help of our jaw moving from side to side; carnivores only up and down for tearing raw meat with sharp teeth and sharp claws. Our stomach is long unlike carnivores who have strong stomach acid and quickly expel meat to avoid diseases. Meat is one cause of diseases.
Half of Hindus, Buddhists early Christians were vegetarians even up to now. Animals are God's children, too. Do we eat our brothers and sisters? A cow is considered one of our mothers. It produces milk more than she needs and the rest is for human consumption. We are not necessarily inflicting pain to her in natural process, unlike the process today which is very painful to them. It also helps in plowing the field, carry people and merchandise. And, we show our gratefulness by killing them for food.
Ultimately, most vegetarians adopted the particular diet because it can be offered to God and He will accept it. It is the prescribed diet found in most scriptures who are not adulterated to satisfy the desire for meat.
I know people who are extreme vegans. And what I've seen is that it comes from which i would say is idolizing animals to the point of praising them by adopting the belief of not killing them for how they feel and how they look at animal's as like a praise for them. To the point that I've literally seen and known people who have this deep admiration for animal's that their emotionally and mentally distorted by the admiration they have for animal's which i believe is beyond the normal point when it controls you're emotions and mental stability and controls you. Which i think is a weakness of the flesh and a distorted view and understanding of animal's. Which you can say this is why people have worshipped and idolize animal's and other thing's of the world like nature and trees or whatever i think it's a idolizing view of how you interpret something and view it so that it has control over you because you glorify it based on what significance you give something that isn't supposed to be glorified in the world. Only God is glorified and praised above everything or anyone.
Thinking the same thing lately about veganism or plant based diet ... thank you for your comment!
I agree with him, but we cannot have this argument without talking about the fact that the meat industry is the leading cause of environmental damage, destroying the rain forest and killing the oceans and climate change and we are called to be stewards of creation. And the cruelty in the way they are killed when we are called to have dominion over all the animals, that's not dominion, that's abuse of power to gain money. Yes, we cannot judge what people eat or drink, but we are also called to a higher standard as Christians. Choosing not to contribute to this seems like a very small sacrifice to me.
Sarah Bandstra exactly. And that’s my problem with it. As a bible believing Christian we are arguing whether it’s spiritually lawful or not and that isn’t even the question. In bible times they didn’t have a whole industry raising a Species of animals only to use them as food. Mass producing therefore having to inject them with hormones and Antibiotics because they crowd them so close together they get sick. There is rape and kdnapping and everything involved in the animals agriculture industry that as a professed Christian talking about whether it’s right or wrong to eat animals does not even scratch the Surface of the evils that go on in this industry. In just 100 years we have Quadrupled our meat consumption. We are eating more animals products now then ever before in history and our health is paying for it. This isn’t a “is it right or wrong to eat meat “ issue. It’s sooooo much deeper than that
Theological yes.
Ethical - not discussed - the main reason people go that direction, faith or not.
As an educated vegan, Christian, environmental scientist - it was clear.
Animal cruelty is half the issue, it's our fellow brothers and sisters.
I choose no meat for environment and ethical reasons.
I choose no meat and many other products because just like I don't accept slave labour, environmental degredation, poverty, corruption etc... Any produce can increase a multitude of issues.
Our sins, greed, unconcious decisions, uneducated practices all can effect someone negatively.
This is a journey we all need to go on.
Ignorance is not bliss for the other side of the world why 1st world enjoy the luxury. I say you don't enjoy it if you are aware.
Knowledge and grace are key to this issue.
Well said brother 👏
God bless!
I think the example Pastor Piper gave from Roman 14 refers to believing vegetarians (maybe because of kosher requirements) and believing non-vegetarians (who eat anything). It is possible that because of kosher requirements (as early Christian believers were also Jewish) they preferred to eat vegetables instead of meats available - when both Jewish and gentile believers would come together to eat. Maybe that is why Paul refers to them as having weak faith - nevertheless, they had faith in Jesus. Reference Romans 14:2: "One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables." While Paul calls those Jews who eat anything as having strong faith - because faith in Jesus indeed is greater than faith in letter ("letter kills but spirit gives life": 2 Cor 3:6).
This reference of Paul to vegetarian food seems parallel to (some) Jewish believers regarding some days important than others. In the same chapter, Paul is saying (Romans 14:5-6): "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God." So, in both the cases [i.e. case 1) eating vegetarian food and considering some days as more important than others; case 2) Eating anything and considering every day alike] Paul is saying - 'They are doing it to the LORD and in faith.' Anything done or eaten without faith in GOD is a sin. And since both the vegetarians (because of kosher) and non-vegetarians believe in GOD, so anything they eat is not a sin - so they must build each other in love and not judge each other from their perspective of faith in the same GOD.
So, the example of Romans 14 possibly does not fit the context of the question asked by Scott. Scott's friends are not Christians, so they do not have faith in God. And Romans 14 maybe does not answer the question of pre-fall dietary standard made by God & the dietary standard when the world will be restored (Is 11:6-9: "wolf will lay down with the lamb....
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.")
We have to take the bible verses literally as well as symbolically. This is a change in nature that we can't comprehend in the world we live in. But, it does seem fair. Nobody likes crying and horrified animals in butcher houses.
Before fall, God gave Adam and Eve every seed-bearing fruit to eat. But when they sinned and covered themselves with fig leaves, God had to slaughter an animal and cover them up with skin. The same pattern repeats in the next generation. Abel lives in truth - knows that he is sinful & sacrifices a lamb to God and God accepts his sacrifice. But Cain brings "fruits of soil" (work of his hands, his good deeds) to the Lord and is rejected. So, the point is - Abel lives in truth. Abel knows that even if sticks to the "fruits of the soil" (work of his hands, his good deeds), that will not obliterate the sin inside of him. So he gives up the effort - as he knows that an effort to do things "right" 100% is pointless.
So, today vegetarian people boast of being good by not eating animals. But the truth is that they cannot obliterate their sin and the harmful effects of their sin on other people in so many different ways - individually and collectively. Look at the state of the ethnic communities that are primarily vegetarian (for example, India) - do they not have injustice in society? Historically, very grievous forms of social injustice was/is prevalent in India - for example, the caste system. So, the point is - by making effort to do good deeds, even if by not doing a visibly grievous thing like killing an animal - the sin in the human heart is not obliterated, and its consequences are visible in other areas of life.
Unless there is a regeneration of human heart and flesh from power from above (outside of human limitations, i.e. when Jesus comes back again or new heavens and new earth appear), maybe we cannot do everything 100% right. And a good way would be just to accept that.
I would agree with almost everything you have said, except the idea that we can't do everything 100% right. My problem would have to do with the commandment to not sin and to be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. This would implicate the very real instruction, through the power of the resurrection and blood of Jesus Christ, to not sin. This is decidedly different from the law of sin and death, where if you sin you die, because in the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, you are made alive without works and your sins, even those you may commit even being a Christian are taken away in utter completion. Again God says that ad far as the east is from the west so far has he removed our sins from us. Even more so, the apostle Paul says that we are no longer debtors to the flesh to do its deeds but to the Spirit and to righteousness to do them.
@@xavierthomas5835 When those who are born again (filled with God's Spirit) do something that is not 100% right, they are humbled by their imperfections (albeit that does not mean it's right to willfully sin). When they are humbled by their imperfections, I guess that is the right direction.
The wrong direction is doing something that seems good on the surface but does not eliminate other dimensions of darkness in your hearts. This is dangerous, because you think you do good and are not even humbled.
@@divyaa155 When you say that they don't do it 100% right, you have to be saying they have done it 100% wrong because there is no such thing as a good intention gone bad by the Spirit of God. He can only do perfect works, when we rely upon him for direction and power to walk. Otherwise all you have is a hastily thought out and seemingly well intended sin. God used to kill people because of their lack of foresight and hastiness in his service. However, what really matters is whether you know the LORD or not. He will and has purified our hearts and sanctified us wholly already according to his word and the power of his resurrection. God himself having said now are ye clean through the word I have spoken unto you tells us that in him we are perfect and through faith is the righteousness and the true righteousness of love and peace reckoned to us through the Spirit and through the Truth.
Also if you say that something unclean can make you humble, you say that there is uncleanness in God. Because the fruit of the Spirit is humility. But this I know you have not said, because we both know that every good and perfect thing comes from God. This means that God freely gives us humility when we sin, so that our heart is not hardened in our sin and repentance with humility. People then have erred in that the free gift of God does not come because we are incapable of doing good, but in order that we may do good and sin no more.
"Vegetarianism was widespread in the early Church, among both the clergy and laity.[3]"
Veganism is kinder to the environment and the poor I thought that was what God wants
is it really though?
what I think that pastor John is missing at is that vegans aren't concerned about salvation and justification as what the issues are in the Scriptures. More than anything Vegans are for a healthier diet, a peaceful world and a holistic lifestyle. With the Christian vegans going for good stewardship on the earth the Lord has made.
You shouldn’t make an ignorant claim about what you believe vegans aren’t concerned about. Because you’d be wrong.
@@iam604 please enlighten me ... what are vegans actually concerned about? at least the historical philosophy of the movement.
@@rayfrancisgamban7437 it’s very simple, we don’t eat, or use anything that comes from an animal. As for further philosophical matters, that would be a subjective topic with many different thoughts.
@@rayfrancisgamban7437 If you were referring to concerns about religion, well god’s very first instructions was what to eat and how to live. The fact that most believers of the Bible don’t even follow the very first instructions demonstrates the lack of understanding of the book for one as well as just how many people have not actually understood what they read. I say that to say this, every so called believer of the Bible wants to get in good with god right? Well if they can’t even follow the very first instructions, it’s no wonder why all can’t follow the one’s directly after. Start off wrong…end wrong.
Now tell me which was my ignorant claim? I was commenting on the video. The pastor's thought was concerning justification... That's where I was making remarks.
So, are vegans concerned about justification? Not just any vegans but those who, at least, started the movement...
"1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of
the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the
ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they
delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all."
Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV) Holy Bible..
AMEN!
Hoorah!!!
Amen! My Sister's and Brothers.
If you keep reading that blanket had nothing to do with food it was a metaphor
There are no metaphors in the Bible. Every word is 100 percent truth.
@@mattroberg7728 But there are symbolic visions in the Bible.
@@user-lt1do6gr9i No, just 100 percent concrete fact. There is absolutely no deviation from the truth in any of the texts in any of the Christian Bibles.
@@mattroberg7728 Well certainly. But I have to answer your previous comment regarding no metaphor being present in the Bible. If you refuse to acknowledge the presence of metaphors in the Bible,then you my friend neither know the Bible nor know the meaning of metaphor and truth. I will answer you in the light of John 10:7 where Jesus says "I am the door". This showcases the value of truth being presented in a sense of metaphor because Jesus is not a literal door but a way through which we reach the Father.
@@user-lt1do6gr9i I really don't think that's what it means..
Levictus 11: 39 “And if any animal which you may eat dies, whoever touches its carcass shall be unclean until the evening, 40 and whoever eats of its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until the evening. And whoever carries the carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until the evening.
ruclips.net/video/XSlaObByUaA/видео.html ...
🐷
John 21
Jesus' disciples: (go out for fishing)
Jesus: miracle*
Vegan Christian: give me a sec
ruclips.net/video/XSlaObByUaA/видео.html ...
🐷
but... the scripture says Romans 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.
I heard something else at 05:38 or am I confusing it with a different verse.
Animal farming plays a huge role in global warming, water shortages, and quality of life. You body is the temple of God. Eat live foods, fruits and veggies, not meat.
Max Franks agreed
Where in the scriptures does it say that it is bad to eat meat?
The question is not whether the Bible gives you permission to eat flesh. the REAL question is, why would you willingly pay for the murder of thousands of animals just to satisfy your belly?! If non-believers are compelled by their compassion that they become vegan activists to save animal lives, shouldn't "Christians" be ashamed that they actually encourage this cruel industry?
May your compassion be stronger than your appetite!
Cos it's delicious
fourstarist Paul was a woman-hating flesh-eater who was a mass murderer of Christians and a self-proclaimed apostle. In 1820, Thomas Jefferson called Paul "the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus." I don't subscribe to ONE WORD that infiltrator anti-Christ said.
There is no mention of Daniel here and I'm curious why that part of the bible has been omitted in this discussion
We aren't Daniels!
"1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of
the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the
ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they
delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all."
Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV)
AMEN!
Hoorah!!!
The answer here is yes. Definitely yes. Vegetarianism is much closer in line. In so many different ways.
You need to study Early Judaism Christianity. The first followers of Jesus. They were, following Jesus's diet Vegetarian (Vegan). Paul did not agree with the veg stance and was preaching to Gentile meat eaters.
We have to live beyond Scripture and look around us at this dying planet, human sickness and the suffering and death of millions of animals. That will give you the answer if God intended a Plant-Based diet or not.
Jesus was not a vegetarian.
@@maikeruasmr8591 "Jesus was not a vegetarian."
But He created you as vegan, bro...
@@gaborszadai1992 Verse? And where in the Bible does it say we can't eat meat?
@@enivo2363 If meat-eating is so "good" then why created you as vegan? Why should He have waited for permitting meat-eating until after the Flood? Tell me, bro...
@@gaborszadai1992 Give me proof in the Bible that God didn't allow us to eat meat until after the flood.
Absolutely NO !!!...read your Bible...
No thanks, I'm a Christian and I'm going to nit-pick any verses I like and ensure they're taken out of context to suit my current world-view and to give me permission to continue satisfying my addition to corpse flesh.
What about in the book of Acts with Peter's firm stance against not eating anything unclean? Did he miss the message Jesus preached when he talked about all foods being cleaned? And reading about the vision that Peter had on the rooftop, it seems a lot of people overlook the full message, those animals were a representation of gentiles.
Interesting note, from my experience Vegan life or people who shifted seem to be traumatized by the reality of killing for "food". We see the suffering passing a butcher. When a Vegan talked to others they are willing to cross the road of torture pictures in their head to help the animals. We don't want to talk about this all the time. Especially after 20 odd years for me or in my kid's life never eating meat. We just want the killing and pain to stop. The cry and terror to stop. It is in our heads and in front of us all the time. I am asked regularly about my veganism and being interrogated if I am judging them. I am not the one bringing up the subject I just don't eat their meat and they feel judged. Then the bible verses come out of them using it against me. They want approval from me and to know I am not judging them. I could care less what they eat I hide but being approached all the time. I don't think God wants to force me to eat innocent animals I am with good conscience I don't want to. So to finish this note, I wonder who judges who?
Have no worries before God.
"1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of
the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the
ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they
delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all."
Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV)
AMEN!
Hoorah!!!
Big point.. animals feel pain, we feel pain.. will you "give yourself" for someone to eat? That's your choice, either way.. animals do not have a choice.. and if you look at Genesis 1:29 he actually says "I give all the seed bearing plants to you, they will be yours for meat" so the perception that "meat" means animal flesh is wrong.. God called seed bearing plants "meat".. and we dont despise anyone, we are trying to open your eyes before you die over the bad choices your making.. and in doing so we can save trillions of others lives.. sacrificing taste pleasure for someone else is the ultimate show of love and compassion, it could never be wrong and I think God cringes when we force others to die for such a trivial reason, such as a 5 minute meal or a sandwich..
Amen sister
Just don't eat apples...
I love the part of this that basically says don't judge each other. I'm a vegan non Christian, but I love elements of religion. I often find myself judging meat eaters and its not good. I won't enter heaven as I don't serve God but at least whilst on earth I will now be non judgemental towards meat eaters, even those that laugh about animal suffering whilst stuffing their faces with unnecessary meat products 😃❤🙏😇
👍💜💚💚
SO GOOD AMEN THANK YOU
THANK YOU LORD FOR LETTING ME SLIT BABY ANIMALS THROATS YOU ARE SO LOVING I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE YOU WHEN I GROW UP
@disciple duSeigneur Nice comeback. Only took you 10 months lmao
@disciple duSeigneur 1. Yes, THEN it was necessary to make them (Adam and Eve) garments of skins in order to clothe them by His Truth. But NOW you kill animals unnecessarily just for fun, just for joy, not for surviving. THEN the Lord obviously killed two animals to show them an example that they should kill animals for sacrificing, too: those offered animals would anticipate the Savior. But NOW we know that "it was not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins", NOW we have to kill animals not any longer, for "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" and by (t)his "offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sacrificed".
2. Yes, THEN the Lord ordered to that primitive, nomadic, stiffhearted people in the wilderness that they should eat the flesh of the passover lamb up, but NOW we know that "our Passover Lamb (i.e. Christ) has been sacrificed for us". So good news: we don't need to live NOW just they did in the Bronze Age.
3. Yes. THEN Jesus ate meat or rather the circumstances forced Him to suffer eating meat. Your circumstances don't force you to kill sentient, innocent creatures, you kill them unnecessarily, although you could easily and abundantly eat something else in a more cruelty-free way, bro: ruclips.net/video/9DJ28bDZCi0/видео.html ...
So what are we to do with Genesis 1:29?
Most vegans like to quote that verse as "proof" that God wants us to be vegans. They always conveniently avoid telling you about the _rest_ of the bible...
*Genesis Ch9 V3*
*_Every moving thing_*_ that lives _*_shall be food_*_ for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs._
*Leviticus Ch11 V1-3*
_Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: "These are the _*_animals which you may eat_*_ - whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud... all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers."_
*Luke Ch24 V36-40*
_Now as they (His disciples) said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled _*_fish_*_ and some _*_honeycomb._*_ And _*_He took it and ate_*_ in their presence._
*1 Timothy Ch4 V1-5*
_Now the Spirit expressly says that _*_in latter times some will depart from the faith,_*_ giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and _*_commanding to abstain from foods which God created_*_ to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and _*_know the truth._*_ For _*_every creature_*_ of God is good, and _*_nothing is to be refused_*_ if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer._
All "FOOD" clean. Food is the operative word. Any jew knew that pork or shellfish was NOT considered food. Unless you've put a rat on your plate, you can't say that truthfully Peter's dream meant all foods are now clean. Plus read on and scripture explains it that it's about the gentiles.
Followers of G-d where vegan until after the flood. Sad though that people take Peters vision out of context. Peter's vision was not about food but was about what he was about to do. That is going to eat with people consider unclean to the Jewish people. Just need to read the entire story and have an understanding of whom, where and what.
So then how do you explain that God made it okay to eat meat after the flood? Secondly, it is just as pertinent that he allowed him to eat any of those beast, because otherwise you would be saying that God offered him a temptation and God doesn't tempt anyone.
So pork and shrimp is no longer abominable?
Have no such worries before God.
"1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of
the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; With all wherewith the
ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they
delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you; As the green herb have I given you all."
Gen. 9:1-3 (ASV)
AMEN!
Hoorah!!!
I feel Romans 14 could apply to much more in Christianity, right now so many are unsure about certain Christian Worship music like Hillsong and Bethel music, so many don’t want to listen to it because it’s from churches that don’t preach the true Gospel, many people sing it in Church services, love to worship the Lord with it. If it feels like a sin to you, but not to someone else, and there isn’t a clear answer on it from the Bible, I think Romans 14 could apply.
Also saying “weaker brother” in my humble opinion is not like saying a “lesser brother”, some are more sensitive spirits. Some are more discerning and deliberately deny anything that could be grieving the Holy Spirit. That kind of sensitivity to sin may set a brother apart in Holiness.
You know you could find a passage in the Bible to defend any debauched behaviour you so desire. It's all in there, so picking select passages is really quite pathetic because there are thousands of things they did then that we don't do now. The Bible was written not by a God but by men, to control and instil fear. But if you believe in Jesus and Jesus' word then he only spoke of compassion and inclusion. He didn't come from a place of ego like most do today. The only question you need to ask yourself is, does what I do cause suffering to another, and if the answer is yes don't do it. "Do to others as you would like them to do to you" Luke 6:31
Why do people need a book to guide their actions or behavior? Especially a book containing a collection of fables.
What guides your actions or behavior? Your own intellect? Are you too smart to learn from history?
Wisdom seeks to learn from what history has to offer and the Bible's been around much longer than you or the last 2000 plus years, only a fool would completely dismiss it, whether they believe in it or not.
The people who read and DO what the Bible says, become some of the greatest achievers that there are.
Look up the Father of oceanography and how he discovered ocean currents.
Or Martin Luther King Jr and what drove the revolutionary peaceful protests, just to mention a few
Or check Albert Einstein's views on God (though others slanderously accuse him of being an atheist, he vehemently disagrees).
Those are just a few sources of wisdom if you're seeking. Although I'm not sure if that was an honest question you asked or you were just mocking people's beliefs like countless others do.
@@supplantermusic9413 I would never turn to the bible for moral guidance under any circumstances. It is well known to condone slavery. It's teachings are often barbaric. I know it doesn't change christians behaviour at all. It is a proven fact that the more religious people are, the more likely they are to commit murder and other similar crimes. I have a friend who is a commited christian who attends church, but enjoys his job working at a slaughter house. I am not a Christian and I consider it morally wrong to kill animals. I don't eat meat or any other animal products. So who has the moral compass?
To this day, the bibles claims and assertions have yet to be proven true or verified by science. Yet branches of science continues to disprove, debunk and disagree with the books writings. For me to take Christianity seriously, it would first need to prove it's claims with verifiable evidence. So far, it has failed miserably. I'm still waiting. Why do you assume that because I reject christianity that I therefore must be an atheist? It's funny stuff.
How can people eat meat, hurt animals literally and still live a peaceful life as our teaching is all about love, peace and harmony, so it’s best not to eat meat, human know everything but still can’t follow ! No arguments but not eating flesh is good!
The meat that is referred to in 7.42 is meat that was offered to idols. That went against some Christians conscience, while others were not troubled by it, due to their different lifestories. This cannot be a verse to support meat eating or veganism, imho.
Now this is good 😀
It’s argued that fish in Bible when it said Jesus ate fish was actually seaweed and was mistranslated. Also only one gospel talks about Jesus eating “fish” the others don’t mention it so he could have been wrong. Nothing to compare it against. I would say in a day and age when we can choose compassion and mercy verses the dead bodies of beings that didn’t want to die for tastebuds God would want us to choose mercy and compassion
That’s ridiculous. Peter was a fisherman, not a seaweedman 😂😂😂
NONE of these animas were eaten 4xs a day at that point. and they were used for SACRIFICE which would be important. they weren’t tortured and diseased and killed by the BILLIONS for out gluttony.