For example if I want to ride 4-6 hours without stoping i use only very cheap Witkopp Medicus sadles. 😂 many much more expensive saddles can i stand only for hour or two.
$400 for seat that probably cost $5 to $10 to make. I’m all about paying for quality, but I’m not about being blatantly ripped off. It’s a major problem with the bike industry right now. The exclusivity of the industry does nothing but to push people out.
Its mindset that is pushing people out. You don't have to compete on strava, you don't have to go into group rides, you can just ride and explore or go against yourself tracking progress. People make it like you need extraorbitant amount of money to enjoy cycling.
I am sure the materials are cheap like that, but the design and development are where the money is going (I think). Pretty sure the 3d drawing of something that complex takes a lot of work. However, I still agree that they are a rip-off and should be priced much much lower.
I have been riding and wrenching for 55 years. I have a B17 that is 17 years old and still going strong. I don't wear any kind of padding. It has molded to my sit bones like a 'glove'!. Spend the money. Spend the time. If you know, you know. Make it a great day everybody!
Started out in 1971 on a Brooks Pro. Been through dozens of saddles since, could have saved a lot of money if I just stuck with Brooks. Over 50 years later a B17 is it for me.
I put a Brooks on my main bike and when I went back to another bike the difference was astounding how comfortable a brooks saddle is the other seat was a cut out model and it was nowhere near as comfortable.
Maybe I'm in the minority but these prices for a plastic seat are just wild. I used to think $120 for a Brooks leather saddle was a LOT. In fact, I still do.
@@event4216these "3D printed" saddles are just overpriced dirt magnets. I don't see why they can't cover these up like regular saddles. Brooks are still best.
The cost is mostly not material, but the fact that 3d printing is not suitable method for mass production makes it expensive, because it takes a long time to print something and you can usually print just one saddle at a time. So the printing cost from the high cost of the machine and wages distributes to all products. And i also feel like the fake leather versions especially the selle italia is absolutely fine and it costs around 145 dollars.
I thought 3D printing was supposed to make things more affordable 🤷🏻♂️ Best saddle I have is a $36 Charge Spoon. I can do 6 hour rides on regular non padded shorts on them. I weigh close to 200 lbs, sometimes a bit more. I think the reason you can't break in a Brooks is that you don't weigh much. The B17 is my second favorite saddle after the Spoon, and i broke mine in in less than 100 miles.
After 60 years cycling and trying all sorts of clothing and saddles, I'm hooked on merino wool undies and a Brookes B17. Pure wool is naturally anti-bacterial and I can wear the same undies for a week if I wish. I just hang them up in the fresh air if I'm touring, and they don't stink. The sole issue is the seam stitching so I buy the best quality (Icebreaker brand) and they will last 10k+ kms.
Love my Brooks saddles, too. C17s with the cutout. I have one on every bike I own. I'm finding I don't really need a chamois in my shorts. Although I have so many pairs of bibs in my cycling kit I often still pull on a pair. I do wear chamois cream for all my longer rides. But, having identical Brooks saddles on every bike means I never have a problem with saddle sores, ever.
I also wear icebreaker - both the briefs and boxer style underwear. Great as a base layer in milder Months. Never washed mine in 3 years and they are still smelling like a yeti armpit. ;)
I’m old and don’t ride fast or competitively, but I bought my first Brooks in 1987 - huge mistake, as it was a B15, their worst other than the Colt IMO. After that I smartened up and bought B17 models, including the Standard, women’s (roll eyes, it’s just shorter basically) and the Special. I also use the B67, B66 and B68. Never had the break in period you mention, I use fenders, and when I’m not sitting on the saddle and it’s raining, I put a shower cap on it.
Smart arse? No, just sensible. They do mould to fit after a while. I have the Brooks Swift on my DH bike and on my Enduro bike and each one has set into a different shape. The max duration I ride for is 4 hours but if that was constantly in the saddle then I would wear some padded shorts but otherwise there is no need and if I get wet so what, you're soon in the shower and drying out.
B15 is just too narrow for most. It's not bad per se. My sit bones are on the narrow side and hated the B17 from day one but get along well with the B15.
Big, fat, fully sprung Gyes GS-07 on my 20" folder for ten years. Works for me. But I'm over 60 years old and about 240 lbs with a big wide sit bones and a muscular booty. Yeah you can ride on anything if you constantly stay in an aero tuck and keep your weight on your hands and legs. But ride long enough and eventually you'll either shift positions to something more upright or just be miserable. Don't know if Gyes still makes saddles or if someone still sells them in the States. So I dread when/if the saddle dies before me. I keep it covered with an Aardvark cover, grease it up, and use a shopping bag when sitting in the rain.
The Brooks C17, without cutout, has been and continues to be the most amazing, awesome, comfortable and enduring saddle I have EVER used. I have done over 20k miles using this saddle and it is still going strong. The C17 was a game changer for me, as someone who is an endurence cyclist, I have a lot of experience in making sure I am comfy on the bike.
I have the Cambium with the cut out and ride a 1 1/2 hour daily commute in regular clothes. It works out fine. I'm more concerned about decent mudguards right now. The front one doesn't keep crap off my drive train, I'm thinking about fitting a rear to the front and attach a little flap like they used to do before we were told bikes had to look cool.
I have that saddle too. Supremely comfortable. Then again, I still have an old school Brooks Pro leather saddle on my touring bike and love it. It has long since moulded to my rear and I dispute that it isn't weather resistant. You just need to apply proofide regularly.
@@ianlaker9161 the Cambium adjusts too but it takes time. Better when warm. During cold spells it's like sitting on concrete. But so long as the saddle sores have time to scar over it's OK.
Because the bib sticks to these 3d-printed saddles, the sliding action that has to occur somewhere takes place between chamois and bum. I personally did not like that permanent wiping and would advise to only buy when you can return.
My experience riding all manner of bikes various distances: 1.) proper size is very important. 2.) start off as close to level as you can get (use a level!) and tweak from there 3.) my two favorites: anything from WTB--they make a VERY nice saddle, for my butt at least---and Brooks' Cambium line. Specialized makes damn good saddles too, but I've had better luck toward their MTB/less aggressive end of things. Charge Spoon is a good budget pick.
There are definitely leather saddles with cutouts. They do have a break in period but some are desinged to have a much shorter break in. They are not as weather resistant but they're not that bad if you keep up on the very little maintenance. You can also run a little fender and use a rain cover. Just trying to be accurate here as I feel like this is a little dismissive of them as "old". I'm obviously on team leather. I've tried quite a few saddles and my Brooks is the only one I actually find comfortable. I don't even wear a chamois.
I have a couple Brooks Swift saddles and love them. My oldest is about 17 yrs old my other 4yrs. Yes they take a bit of maintenance but how many of the flavour of the day saddles that he's talking about will be in use next year much less in a decade +.
@@sambabulli Just bought one. Came across a feller who came across another feller several years back who gave a great tip for leather break in. Soak in 105-120 degree water for 5-10 minutes or until pliable. Wipe off, apply mink oil, most generously in sit area for 5 minutes rubbing, go for a short ride with no padding check seat sit bone impression area, adjust, re-apply more mink oil. I did this and just wore some old spandex, didn't feel any pain. I literally have no meat down there so ended up with bike shorts, (women's). Have had it out a few times, most recent was a 25 miler. No issues. Only thing is getting the angle correct as it breaks in I keep sliding. I have it on a Niner gravel with drops. Plan is to do bikepacking so wanted some comfort. Time will tell. Everyone has their own take on comfort so whatever works for you. Am 68 yrs young.
I’ve been cycling at a competitive level for 50 years and have had dozens of saddles. The comments about a proper fit are spot on. BTW if you’re sore on one side, the saddles too high as it causes the rotation to compensate towards your favored leg. The sitting on cardboard thing is misleading as you interact with the saddle more forward on the pelvis than when sitting vertical. The bones taper to more narrow at the pressure point. Ok now for the crazy comment, every saddle I have is much more comfortable since I got shoes and orthotics that fit perfectly. More load spread over the whole footbed reduces pressure up the line.
The last part isn't that crazy. Sheldon Brown said the reason it's called a saddle and not a seat is because a seat takes your whole weight. Part of the reason so many people have comfort issues with their saddle is because they are trying to sit on it and then pedal, rather than pedal and using it to balance.
Excellent explanation about saddles. A bike fit, higher end saddle, a great wheelset can improve any cheap bike. You have proven this with your demo bike rides. Your videos are gems. The POV at the end is a dream come true single track for gravel bikes. You live in a beautiful area
Some comments on the general styles of saddles would have been helpful. For example "Boost" and "Power" are the trade names Selle Italia and Specialized use respectively for the newer short nosed saddles. These are shorter and wider, intended for a very stable fit, with little inner thigh rubbing at the nose. In contrast, the traditional long nose saddles (e.g. 270mm or more) are intended to allow the rider to slide back and forth depending on whether they want more weight on the pedals (e.g. while going up a hill) or sitting back (while coasting). A very small change in the the fore and aft and tilt can have a dramatic effect on the pressure you feel on your handlebars. For this reason having a two-bolt seat post that allows you to make fine adjustments and keep them there, is very helpful. It may take 10 rides for the perfect saddle to feel...perfect. Specialized and I think Trek now allow you to try for 30 days at no risk. You can return them for refund if you don't like them.
Saddles and bibs are very subjective items since everyone one's physiology and time on the bike are different. Once I discovered the right saddle for myself, I try my best to stick with the same or similar design. Laugh if you want, but my mtn bike has a road oriented saddle because I tend to do long rides frequently.
I can break in a brooks B17 in three long days, and have had my present ones for over 25 years. Ultra distance cyclist Lon Haldeman showed me the break in method. 1) turn the bike upside down into a bucket of warm (NOT HOT!) water with glycerin. 2) Ride the wet saddle to relieve it in your pelvic areas. 3) Brush neatsfoot oil on the top and bottom. Do this three days in a row, and VOILA! Brush with oil every month afterwards. Last saddle you will ever buy! Saddle issues are never my concern, I still ride century rides at age 71, have ridden double centuries and BACK to BACK double centuries back in the day.
We didn't have saddle problems when racing in the 1980s, we didn't have creams and we didn't have these insane padded shorts. I used a lycra short with a very thin anti-friction layer, that is all the layer is meant to do, NOT pad you butt. I used a rock hard Brooks leather saddle. I raced ultra-marathon and even in the Race Across America with 20 hours a day in the saddle no problems. I will have to buy my own sewing machine because today like all other bike crap on the market, there is only one choice the wrong one. The manufactures are all afraid of making anything different, so now we have padding in the shorts which causes painful seem points, and no padding in the gloves where we do need it. It is like the entire industry just said: "lets make everything the opposite of what actually functions".
Great video as always Dustin - just saying, you can get a Brooks B17 with a cutout - they refer to them as imperial, maybe that's metric for taint. As for negatives, nothing like getting caught in a rainstorm without fenders with a saddle with a cutout - unless you dig on power washing your undercarriage.
As someone who has more back problems than... undercarriage problems... The SMP saddles have been awesome. They are visually atrocious but they do a great job of keeping sensitive areas happy but where it really shines is that it does that while letting you rotate your hips forward have less of an acute bend in your lower back. SMP for the win. As an aside, I came to give my two cents on saddles but ended up in the EBD webshop because that Campy Delta shirt is amazing!
SMP is amazing, one of the few saddle companies which actually have done research with a medical university. There should be no discussion about saddles without this brand.
The Brooks saddle is heavy but I disagree with the point of view that they are hard to break in and not weather proof. To break in a Brooks saddle soak it in water overnight and ride it the next day while it is still wet. It breaks in very quickly using this method. I have over 40,000 miles, on Brooks B-17's and they are still looking and feeling just fine. I do use Proofide from time to time.
Yes, the Brooks will fit the riders sit bones perfectly after break in. I used a damp washcloth overnight and road it dry the next day. About a month or 1000 miles it was "sit bone dented"; you know. I rode these saddles in Race Across America 20 hours a day. No problems.
I bought an Infinity saddle. Custom made Costs almost $400. No return policy unless defective. Best saddle I have ever had. No need for padding, the use of which would make for a less comfortable ride anyway. The saddle's secret. It is designed to evenly support around the sit--bone, not just on the inside and center of the sit--bone as almost all other seats are designed to do.
I have a Brooks Pro saddle from 1974 which has way over 20,000 of hours on it. I also ride a Brooks B17 saddle that has maybe 2000 hours on it and I use it on my Bikepacking Fatbike. The Unicanitor Cinelli plastic saddle is on my track bike which also has 1000's of hours on it.(I used to work at a Velodrome for several seasons). No, I do not use Butt Butter either, but almost always ride with a chamois. Yes the bike should be fitted to you! Now for my wife the saddle situation is far different. She went through a few saddles and it depended on what sort of bike she was riding(road, MTB or fatbike) what saddle works well. She uses Butt Butter all the time! Whatever, Get out there and ride, have FUN, be safe!
I used the old leather Avocet, Touring II, saddles for about 10 years, because it was right for me, then switched to a variety of racing ones for another twenty, none of which were anywhere near to comfortable. The Touring II went out of production. The one saddle I've found, recently, that is actually comfortable without exaggeration, is the Twenty dollar, not lying, SELLE-ROYAL, LATA saddle you get on line from Walmart. It really, truly, is thee most comfortable seat I've used in many, many years.
Charge spoon is my budget choice I've 365'd a faux brown leather one in British weather, and it has never given me issues riding 14 miles a day or 30+ on adventures without bib shorts
Can you still buy it? One of my old bikes had it, it looked like nothing special but oh damn was I surprised when I rode it through a whole year in jeans… it’s just perfect. I sadly sold the bike with it, not realizing it’s not available around here in Hungary.
Make sure the saddle is wide enough and does not collapse under your weight. Basically wide and flat and strong across where your sit bones make contact. You need to firmly sit on the saddle, not slide off to the side, or worse get impaled by one. If you're anywhere near 6 feet tall don't be afraid to go what seems wide, 150+ mm. It's not wide for your size
I look at these concepts and my immediate thought is: "How fast will they wear out in sunlight/under usage?". I can't help myself but imagining those small structure break apart bit by bit in a not so long period of time. While I really like the idea of individualized products, I will have to see reports of longterm usage first before investing. Material tests will be the key I guess.
My concern with the open lattice is it retaining and breaking down from road grit and slop if ridden in rain for long periods-kind of like how I had a perforated leather topped saddle get destroyed in a weekend double century rain fest. Just think smooth toppers are more weather and dirt resistant. Most important thing is “if the shoe fits, wear it.”
After the same three decades of riding Flite, Stella and Specialized saddles, I found the Ergon saddle to be like sitting on a wooden plank with splinters. After two months of riding the Ergon, I went back to an old Flite saddle and am again comfortable. Will be trying an adaptive saddle soon.
I hate having a cut out. It's just not comfortable for me. I've been using a Brooks B17 for a few months, and it is fantastic. I think I finally settled on a saddle.
Love the Antares (I have 5) but I tried the Antares with the relief channel and the relief edges started to shred my taint instantly. Impressively bad for a saddle shape that has already proven to work for me. Not a narrow saddle. Normal Antares for life. @@thispod
@@thispod Everything was sized correctly and was done with a local fitter with a great reputation. I tried ~12 saddles - anything with a cutout bothered me.
@@thispodsaddles with cutouts bother me too, they all suck. My favorite saddle, the Charge Spoon, has an indent, but not a cutout, and is super comfortable.
I’m another who finds a cut-out uncomfortable. I ride thousands of km per year and routinely over 100km on any given ride, almost always on drop bar bikes, and don’t use chamois and rarely use any lubricant. B17 works great for me.
I choose the Hobson Easyseat every time. Designed by an orthopedic surgeon & I've never had a sore butt since I started using it back in the nineties when I used to have order it through the mail. Only seat that moves with your legs & you can take a jump since you land on the base of your pelvic bone. I've ridden it for hours at a time with no discomfort & it's weatherproof & affordable. Oh, & taint friendly.
I wonder how many old school cyclists like me - I joined my first cycling club in 1948 - watch videos like this with astonished amusement? What a load of fuss about nothing - are people today that much softer than we used to be? I don't actually remember how many saddle choices there were then - I think I probably had a Brookes. In those days, though, we rode thousands of miles in ordinary corduroy shorts. No padding, lubrication never heard of, and yet, among all the cyclists I came across in my club years I don't recall anyone having problems in the nether regions. I certainly never did. Anyone else of my age still extant who would like to comment?
This is a seriously great video, but I think you should put a revision somewhere so people don’t think leather saddles come without cutouts. Brooks makes saddles with cutouts, but many other companies make leather saddles with significant cutouts too.
Umm... The leather Selle Anatomica saddles need zero break-in. I once did a double century on a brand new Selle Anatomica saddle after a day or two of dialing in the saddle positioning and tensioning of the leather. Maybe do a bit more research before making sweeping claims.
I'm not super picky for saddles, but I've found that a Brooks C15 Cambium (hard rubber, not leather, and fully weatherproof; no cutout) on my gravel bike and a Giant Fleet SL (with cutout) on my road bike have both worked well for me. I have ridden both saddles 300km in a single day without discomfort / saddle sores, and that's without using chamois cream. I don't think I can ask for anything more.
My wife and I are avid cyclists. We fell in love with your channel because of your videos and cycling around nature. We're currently in the process of moving to Vancouver. Once we do and are settled in, we would love to one day visit Oregon and cycle with you, if you'll have us.
For novice riders the first thing to check/change for saddle pain is … riding Posture. Trying to ride a bike designed to sit the rider in an aggressive position, like a mountain or road bike, in an upright position will probably be uncomfortable. Good posture tends to crumble with fatigue. Riders who are fine with their saddle for the first 30 min but(t) notice soreness after the 60 or 90 minute mark may not be riding with the proper pelvic tilt as they tire. Another area that may never have been taught or that falls apart with fatigue is Rocking the pelvis. A calm upper body, using just the lower body to turn over the pedals won’t use the nethers as a pivot point as the rider rocks right&left to turn over the pedals. Most weekend riders have medium width sit bones and with good posture can jump on any stock saddle and have a good ride. Pushing the limits of frequency, duration, speed or a physical anomaly may showcase the need for a saddle change. If the road/mtb rider is looking for the riser, shorter, or higher angle stem they will probably be looking for a new saddle as well. The casual(ish) flat bar rider who needs the palm support grips to relieve numbness, back and shoulder issues may also benefit from checking their posture. Change saddles all you want but ensuring proper posture is a long term solution and it’s free. Lots of ‘mays’ probably’ ‘tends’. Just a lot of what I’ve personally experienced & seen and helped with other riders. Your pain is real, do Something to reduce it.
I also have 120mm between my sitbones and have been riding 140-145mm saddles for years but never got the issues completely away, went down a size and ride no 132mm and am free of issues. What i did not account for in all those years, the more agressive your position on the bike is, the smaller the saddle has to be in most cases, because the sitbones are also narrower together when your hip is more rotated (=more agressive position)
It took years of the saddle-go-round. Brooks, no. Then I got a Selle Lite 209. The Answer. And it’s light, well made, durable and I’ve yet to have a numb package or a sore taint. All day rides,too. I’ve never used bibs or cream.
I don't know why this is, but I know everyone that rides moto will agree. For some reason, a firmer saddle is more comfy on a long ride than a soft one. I have theories but I'm not an ass scientist. Guys sometimes jump on my bike (some hard flat road saddle on mtb) and say it's not that comfy. Well, it isn't, _right now_ . But after 3-4hrs people think it's some magic saddle. It's just really firm. That's it. Thank you for reading my blog.
People that say that Brooks saddles changed their life had other saddles way too high in the first place. Brooks saddles sag so you sit way lower than a regular saddle if you keep the same seatpost height.
I am a casual rider. I'm not training for races, I ride because I like it and to stay in shape. My seat is the one that came on the bike and I have no problem at all with it.
I like your videos. Your presentation is fun and informative. Personally, I'm a utility cyclist. I'm not doing a double century, I'm going out for a trip to the grocery store. I'm 63 and showing my age. I have nerve damage in my hands and can't take pressure for more than a couple of miles, so I ride upright or on a recumbent. I don't really want to race, even if I were physically capable. So my choice of bike seat is an old school mattress saddle. Not a cruiser seat with a bit of foam over a wide slab of plastic, but a web of springs stretched on a frame with more springs supporting the frame on the seat post. Plush and it soaks up some massive shocks on the local broken roads. But heavy and it also soaks up peddling power. The seat has to fit more than the rider. It also has to fit the intended purpose. And there is more than just sports. Next cycling goal? The ultimate urban cargo bike.
A few years ago, I bought into the short nose saddle craze. The concept is great & it does work...BUT the particular model I bought had a surface texture that wore out & became extremely smooth. Now when I use it the seat slips and slides from under me while trying to put down power. It totally defeats the purpose, & the seat cost a little too much to just replace. Luckily I bought a carbon composite model with a long nose & it works just fine!
One thing you missed: Showering. For some of us on the more... cough... crusty hippie end of the spectrum, this one can make a big difference. I used to rarely shower and get saddle sores. Now I always shower before and after a long ride. Showering more made a big difference. This advice also goes for men who have sex with women who don't like getting UTIs.
I bought a Brooks B17 and it took over a year for it to break in. But in it's defense, I only rode that bike/saddle once a week for a couple hours, now it finally fits super comfy.
Half day, all day rides. Inc century rides. Non performance oriented. No adult nappies, no specialist shorts. Normal clothing, leather saddles not just Brooks, and the Cambium range is great.
I used to have a hard saddle and be able to cycle for hours before the pain starts, then I got a comfy cushioned saddle for years. Now I got a new gravel bike with a hard saddle and the pain kicks in in just a few minutes. I think part of it is just getting used to the saddle
It's all in your own body, gotta give it time and lots of 50 to 100 miles rides, you wear your saddle to suit I remember in the 80s every 2nd guy rode a Brooks riveted saddle they last forever, waterproof with Dubbin great 👍 for touring, me and dad averaged 100 miles a day for weeks, he lapped Ireland 1000 miles I did Length of Britain 🇬🇧 Plus, 1100 miles in 12 days, I've never had blister on bum or feet , kangaroo skin shoes now 44 years old/ in Yorkshire we call tough riders "HARD ARSE" !! Cheers 🍻 ❤from Australia 🇦🇺 😊
After I discover Brooks I got rid of all padded shorts and lubes. Long days (touring) in the saddle are no problem. I still have every one I've ever owned, and that started in the seventies. For me it is Brooks, Berthoud or Gyes for every bike. They all come with or without the cut out.
The comments are almost as good as the video. Lots of brooks love out there, but no mentions of the c13. The names are confusing but the c13 is like a broken in leather brooks. Super soft and squishy, and it has a cut out. I tried it on a whim and It literally changes the ride quality of your bike. I’m not running it on all of my bikes, but I like it for my flat bar ones. It’s interesting hearing everyone’s different experiences with the butt / saddle interface.
The Brooks Cambium aren't for everyone, but I can put 3-4 times the mileage on them compared to more conventional saddles from Smanie, Spesh, WTB, Ergon, etc. I find the C17 with or without cutout just works for me. It IS relatively heavy, (though I have been able to drop about 50 grams out of mine by disassembling and swapping parts between the 4 of them that I now own,) but the comfort on long rides has been great. I also found the active saddles from SQ Labs to be comfortable on the MTB, but the creaking gets on my nerves.
I've not seen anyone mention creaking anywhere, interesting. Thx for sharing this. That is a no-no for me. I won't try the Sq labs then. Did you try several? did all creak?
I have to disagree with your assessment that comfort seats hurt your bottom more than standard ones. I tried one some years ago and it was a vast improvement over the tiny stock seat. The only problem was that it was butt-ugly on the bike and made it look nowhere near as cool. But as for keeping the bum comfortable, it was definitely an upgrade and worth it.
I ride about 10-15 hours per week and I thought I had the perfect saddle (for me) on my bikes. Then I purchased a new bike and tried out a 3D printed saddle (Specialized Mirror Romin Evo). It's an instant upgrade and worth every penny if you ride a lot. I have never been so comfortable on my bike. Everyone is different and your mileage may vary...but I am sold. Also, the video makes great points about the value in the right bike fit and a good pair of bibs, which are also key components to being comfortable on your bike.
I have several "Transportation" bicycles. All have brooks leather saddles and a two bolt seat post. The seat bolts are one in front and one in the back. This give a much better adjustment. With the leather saddle the wide back part I mount to were it is level. So when I am sitting and peddling, my weight is straight down on the level part, where my sit bones touch the saddle, like sitting in a chair. If the back part is tilted then the sit bones slide and pinch nerves, causing pain. I have ridden over 100,000 miles and rode across the US and a leather saddle, mounted with the back level is best.
my thoughtts are . . . half an hour ride, whatever you ride will be fine. everything longer . . . definitely need a good fit, chamois and a comfortable stiff saddle.
I'm a 68 yr old who rides a minimum of 300kms per week and the only time I have saddle/butt issues is early spring when mileage is low and the sit bones lose their callous. I've never had to or wanted to use chamois butter as my fear is, I won't callous properly. My advice is, if you're having chafing problems, it ain't your saddle...it's your tender ass that needs more saddle time....period! Any guitar player will tell you, the same applies to their fret hand...JUST PLAY MORE!
I've got 2 Fizik Antares VS R1 saddles, I've had them for a few years, one on my Mountain Bike, the other on my Gravel Bike, I ride from 2 to 5 hrs each ride, this saddle is amazing, 4 comfort zones, soft in the rear, stiff in the front, I just wear good padded shorts, stand to pedal a few times a ride, nothing compares to 3D printed saddles. Comfortable, easy to clean, weather doesn't effect, breathable, rugged, beautiful. I rode mostly on the Charge Spoon before this saddle, lightweight, comfortable, great looking, easy on the wallet, but the 3D wins overall.
Leather saddles are available with cutouts. And not all of us need to break them in. For me, they're fine out of the box. My favorite saddle is the Brooks B17. The intolerance to water is a problem. My commuter bike has a Brooks C17 (non-leather) saddle for that reason.
@@EverythingsBeenDone Also, I have to agree about those Ornot bibs. I have a pair and some other products of theirs, and it's nice stuff. That chamois in those Gore Distance Bib 2.0 look primo. Grundle approved.
I have been riding on the Fizik Argo since January this year. Ultra distance gravel events, 750km plus. Would never go back. Agree with all your prelim comments, although I don’t use “chammy cream” most ultra riders are using other products now that are more effective. Thanks for the channel, I enjoy your humorous and straightforward delivery. All the best.
@@sl3848 Avene (brand) Cicalfate+ skin repair cream. This is applied directly to the skin. It will also repair existing wounds/ abrasions very fast. Most of use re-apply daily on multi day events and before sleep if you are going to.
I swear by leather saddles (a 98.- euro Brooks B17, to be precise). I rode one through Chilean Patagonia without any padding in winter 2023/24. In fact, the padded cycling shorts was the only item in my luggage I've never used on that trip. Roughly half of the trip was the notorious wave-shaped "ripio" (gravel). It was quite comfortable from day one, although, true, a bit harder. As for weather, we've seen rain for an entire day sometimes. No problem, just have some rain cover at hand for the saddle. A plastic bag would do.
Gotcha! Now that I found your channel, let me "spill some beans", I am a bike commuter, found you anyway. I got a leather saddle, ride in every weather (really EVERY weather), I don't wear bibs - and it still works! Rides are usually below an hour though. But nice video, thanks for the information. And the entertainment.
Off bikes for 10 years. From July 1st to October 21 I've riden 1,400 miles on a new Trek hibread. Using my Brooks Imperial on the older ThudBuster seat post and all is fine. Tilt is very important on a Brooks. At 76yo all is well. I pass very few roadies and slow down when they get on my rear wheel. Ride for life.. ride your own ride. I compeat with no one. 🤪
I have different saddles on different bikes. My gravel bike has a Prologo thing that looks like a razor blade and my upright tourer has two saddles - a B17 brooks for my own riding and a C19 Brooks for commuting and doing my job a cycle instructor. all three are extremely comfortable and I can spend multiple hours in the saddle. I have two for my tourer because the B17 is tops for long days fully loaded but at work I get on and off my bike multiple times often in bad weather so the B17 has little protection from water. When I'm riding for pleasure my body protects the saddle and I put a bag over it when I stop - it really is worth that effort as it's the comfiest saddle I have ever owned - but I wouldn't use it on my gravel bike. It really is a minefield which I am just getting to grips with at the age of 58!
After spending thousands on saddles over the years, the only saddles I’ve found that actually provide perineum relief is SQ labs. I rode Brooks for a couple of years but I was still getting numbness that I was dealing with by standing up in 30 second bursts.
I used to be a bike messenger in Houston in the mid 90s. I was on the saddle from 8AM to sometimes midnight 5 days a week and never wore any kind of bib. It was boxers under cargo shorts. I’m hairy. I’ve never had any discomfort even on rainy days wearing all that cotton.
What a gyp! Crucial downsides of these saddels are that they are way heavier and the material will age quickly by what the saddle loses its cushioning features.
Algorithm, that's what brought me here. I am not a competitive cyclist. I use a bike to commute. The type of work I do is not done in one place so we have about 20 worksites in the area. The closest one is 5 miles away, and the furthest one is 20 miles away. I have been injured and unable to ride or work for a few months. I have found that the saddle feels less comfortable than it used to, especially on longer rides. I'm pretty sure it's because I am quite a bit heavier than I used to be. The saddle thing is worst in the summer when it's hot, I bought some Vaseline and it worked pretty well as a "lube" but in the hot weather it turns to liquid. I've been in this boat before, it just means taking a couple "butt breaks" at least on the way home when I'm tired. Oh yeah a tip, if your bike has been in the sun on a hot day, pour water on your saddle and let it evaporate, before you sit on it. This will cool it down,
Having a cut out is imperative for me, also a wider seat helped too and having a seat with memory foam in it negates the need for bibs *cough* nappies *cough*, just hop on and ride. I've an older model BBB saddle, but something like the current BBB SoftShape Active is awesome. I've done 4hr long rides and not had a problem. Having said that I'm trail riding and shuttling on a fully sprung MTB. Road bikes would likely be a different situation.
Definitely some good points - Except one! The saddles with cutouts I've tried (several over the years) invariably have HURT ME! Almost every saddle with a cutout I've tried has, after a few hours or even minutes, felt like someone wedging my pelvis bones apart on every bump. They do not work for me. They leave bruises and sores. I've found the cutout isn't as important as some relief - an indent. I think it being connected prevents the sit bone supports from bending down and allowing the cutout ridge to form a wedge. My favorites are the SQLab's MTB saddles - even for road/gravel bikes. They come in several sizes/widths so they will actually fit and support the part of the butt that is meant to be supported without punching the parts that are not!
People with low fitness, low density muscles will have trouble with the sit bone area, you have to put in the time for muscle density from training. I would suggest anyone who wants to try cycling begin off season in the autumn with weight training to buld up the glutes and quads and calves, plus the upper body for all the isomentric stress of supporting your body. Even as a pro racer I weight trained expecially for the upper body in the off season. You can always skip this advice and begin cycling to build up muscle mass and density while you cycle. For you, learn the technique of out-of-the-saddle pedaling for periods longer than a minute. Smooth efficiet pedal strokes relaxed out of saddle pedaling.
Brooks B17 for everyday and touring / Audax (600km - 1200km rides) and Brooks Swift on faster road bike. Your rear just floats over the leather, no sores ever. On the B17 I ride with cycling shorts through to Jeans. I've used other saddles and not had many problems, but Brooks is like sitting in an armchair. I like Sunday Café rides where 'serious roadies' look at my Brooks with respect and amazement over how hardcore it is to ride Brooks - little do they know it's easy streets!
Was $325 outrageous....you bet!!!! But I bought it anyway! THE most comfortable saddle I have ever used! But measure your sit bones to get the best out of any saddle that fits your measurements!....My Saddle is the Specialized 3-D Printed saddle and I got the right width to fit my Sit Bones...
People sometimes ask me how (or why) I do 6-8 hour endurance cross country rides on a 50 year old road bike wearing jeans, tennis shoes and a hoodie. The answer is that my scrotum has turned to shoe leather long ago and I resist saddle sores through rage alone and maybe a water bottle full of cheap whiskey. The way it used to be done. 🤣
I ride very long distance wearing jean shorts and a cotton t-shirt. I think that sizing is the most important factor.....not to mention 50 plus years of riding.
Been riding the power mirror pro and it is definitely legit. I got it heavily discounted or I would never have bought it. Worth every penny I spent but not worth $400
The most comfortable saddle i ever owned was a properly adjusted Brooks leather saddle. Next was an SMP Atheos. Most saddles that come on bicycles are junk or bottom line. You can't ride them for hours without some sort of issue.
I'm road my first century on a $300 custom hybrid, $60 biv and a duck taped comfort saddle worth $0. last time i spent money on a "proper saddle" I couldn't sit down on the seat after 40 minutes. buying all this expensive gear is for people who have more money then they know what to do with. The best gear is the gear you already have.
I have a Brooks B17 (leather). It was comfy straight out of the box and is still comfy, the only drawback being that it needs protection from the rain. Also love the supercool retro look. And I grew up less than half a mile from the Brooks factory in Birmingham, so it's also a matter of heritage and romance for me. I did the Fiets Elfstedentocht on it and my arse was as good as new at the end of the day.
I should be working, but this is important
Taylor KNOWS
@@EverythingsBeenDoneI should be doing cpr on this patient, but...
You and me both. But nothing is more important than solving saddle sores.
LMAO Im dying...Literally @@eterlizzi
😂
I'm sorry but $500 for yet another "miracle" saddle ain't happening
For example if I want to ride 4-6 hours without stoping i use only very cheap Witkopp Medicus sadles. 😂 many much more expensive saddles can i stand only for hour or two.
Those saddles actually have quality, I bought some brand new at Lidl, 5 euros each.
@@Gilbertoooooooo only problem with them is they are not as durable as this high end
Ergon ST gel job done.
@@fender1000100 i tested 3 models. And was very surprised that they doesent work for me.
$400 for seat that probably cost $5 to $10 to make. I’m all about paying for quality, but I’m not about being blatantly ripped off. It’s a major problem with the bike industry right now. The exclusivity of the industry does nothing but to push people out.
Yeah, I went to the site to see how much these were expecting upward of $100... I was SO far off, holy shit.
The best gear is the gear you already have.
Its mindset that is pushing people out. You don't have to compete on strava, you don't have to go into group rides, you can just ride and explore or go against yourself tracking progress. People make it like you need extraorbitant amount of money to enjoy cycling.
I am sure the materials are cheap like that, but the design and development are where the money is going (I think). Pretty sure the 3d drawing of something that complex takes a lot of work. However, I still agree that they are a rip-off and should be priced much much lower.
I have been riding and wrenching for 55 years. I have a B17 that is 17 years old and still going strong. I don't wear any kind of padding. It has molded to my sit bones like a 'glove'!. Spend the money. Spend the time. If you know, you know. Make it a great day everybody!
I found leather saddles great, and then they change shape and apply pressure to delicate parts. Also the weather here is not ideal.
The same story here. 54 years, cycling all my life, a B17 on all my bikes.
Started out in 1971 on a Brooks Pro. Been through dozens of saddles since, could have saved a lot of money if I just stuck with Brooks. Over 50 years later a B17 is it for me.
I put a Brooks on my main bike and when I went back to another bike the difference was astounding how comfortable a brooks saddle is the other seat was a cut out model and it was nowhere near as comfortable.
@@bobmatley Yeah i find cutout saddles put too much pressure on your sit bones. Firmish padding with decent shaped base can be ideal
Maybe I'm in the minority but these prices for a plastic seat are just wild. I used to think $120 for a Brooks leather saddle was a LOT. In fact, I still do.
Plastic is used for cheap fenders. This saddles are 3D printed out of composite material. This is like 70% + 30% of price. Huh.
@@event4216these "3D printed" saddles are just overpriced dirt magnets. I don't see why they can't cover these up like regular saddles.
Brooks are still best.
The cost is mostly not material, but the fact that 3d printing is not suitable method for mass production makes it expensive, because it takes a long time to print something and you can usually print just one saddle at a time. So the printing cost from the high cost of the machine and wages distributes to all products. And i also feel like the fake leather versions especially the selle italia is absolutely fine and it costs around 145 dollars.
@@alexmichl3137 The Chinese are proving that this is not the case
Everything bike related is expensive and the effin bike snobs and elitist aren't making it any easier
I thought 3D printing was supposed to make things more affordable 🤷🏻♂️
Best saddle I have is a $36 Charge Spoon. I can do 6 hour rides on regular non padded shorts on them. I weigh close to 200 lbs, sometimes a bit more.
I think the reason you can't break in a Brooks is that you don't weigh much. The B17 is my second favorite saddle after the Spoon, and i broke mine in in less than 100 miles.
After 60 years cycling and trying all sorts of clothing and saddles, I'm hooked on merino wool undies and a Brookes B17. Pure wool is naturally anti-bacterial and I can wear the same undies for a week if I wish. I just hang them up in the fresh air if I'm touring, and they don't stink. The sole issue is the seam stitching so I buy the best quality (Icebreaker brand) and they will last 10k+ kms.
Love my brooks!
Love my Brooks saddles, too. C17s with the cutout. I have one on every bike I own. I'm finding I don't really need a chamois in my shorts. Although I have so many pairs of bibs in my cycling kit I often still pull on a pair. I do wear chamois cream for all my longer rides. But, having identical Brooks saddles on every bike means I never have a problem with saddle sores, ever.
I also wear icebreaker - both the briefs and boxer style underwear. Great as a base layer in milder Months. Never washed mine in 3 years and they are still smelling like a yeti armpit. ;)
I’m old and don’t ride fast or competitively, but I bought my first Brooks in 1987 - huge mistake, as it was a B15, their worst other than the Colt IMO. After that I smartened up and bought B17 models, including the Standard, women’s (roll eyes, it’s just shorter basically) and the Special. I also use the B67, B66 and B68. Never had the break in period you mention, I use fenders, and when I’m not sitting on the saddle and it’s raining, I put a shower cap on it.
Smart arse? No, just sensible. They do mould to fit after a while. I have the Brooks Swift on my DH bike and on my Enduro bike and each one has set into a different shape. The max duration I ride for is 4 hours but if that was constantly in the saddle then I would wear some padded shorts but otherwise there is no need and if I get wet so what, you're soon in the shower and drying out.
B15 is just too narrow for most. It's not bad per se. My sit bones are on the narrow side and hated the B17 from day one but get along well with the B15.
Big, fat, fully sprung Gyes GS-07 on my 20" folder for ten years. Works for me. But I'm over 60 years old and about 240 lbs with a big wide sit bones and a muscular booty. Yeah you can ride on anything if you constantly stay in an aero tuck and keep your weight on your hands and legs. But ride long enough and eventually you'll either shift positions to something more upright or just be miserable. Don't know if Gyes still makes saddles or if someone still sells them in the States. So I dread when/if the saddle dies before me. I keep it covered with an Aardvark cover, grease it up, and use a shopping bag when sitting in the rain.
The Brooks C17, without cutout, has been and continues to be the most amazing, awesome, comfortable and enduring saddle I have EVER used. I have done over 20k miles using this saddle and it is still going strong. The C17 was a game changer for me, as someone who is an endurence cyclist, I have a lot of experience in making sure I am comfy on the bike.
I have the Cambium with the cut out and ride a 1 1/2 hour daily commute in regular clothes.
It works out fine.
I'm more concerned about decent mudguards right now. The front one doesn't keep crap off my drive train, I'm thinking about fitting a rear to the front and attach a little flap like they used to do before we were told bikes had to look cool.
I have that saddle too. Supremely comfortable. Then again, I still have an old school Brooks Pro leather saddle on my touring bike and love it. It has long since moulded to my rear and I dispute that it isn't weather resistant. You just need to apply proofide regularly.
Got one on my Brompton. Love it.
I love the saddle, but it is very hungry for pants.
@@ianlaker9161 the Cambium adjusts too but it takes time.
Better when warm.
During cold spells it's like sitting on concrete. But so long as the saddle sores have time to scar over it's OK.
Because the bib sticks to these 3d-printed saddles, the sliding action that has to occur somewhere takes place between chamois and bum. I personally did not like that permanent wiping and would advise to only buy when you can return.
oh no i hate saddles that are sticky/grabby
This !
My experience riding all manner of bikes various distances: 1.) proper size is very important. 2.) start off as close to level as you can get (use a level!) and tweak from there 3.) my two favorites: anything from WTB--they make a VERY nice saddle, for my butt at least---and Brooks' Cambium line. Specialized makes damn good saddles too, but I've had better luck toward their MTB/less aggressive end of things. Charge Spoon is a good budget pick.
There are definitely leather saddles with cutouts. They do have a break in period but some are desinged to have a much shorter break in. They are not as weather resistant but they're not that bad if you keep up on the very little maintenance. You can also run a little fender and use a rain cover. Just trying to be accurate here as I feel like this is a little dismissive of them as "old". I'm obviously on team leather. I've tried quite a few saddles and my Brooks is the only one I actually find comfortable. I don't even wear a chamois.
sella atomica comes to mind for cutouts with a prestressed leather.
I have a couple Brooks Swift saddles and love them. My oldest is about 17 yrs old my other 4yrs. Yes they take a bit of maintenance but how many of the flavour of the day saddles that he's talking about will be in use next year much less in a decade +.
how far can you go without bibs?
@@HCMORGI If they're fully broken and properly fit, to hours end. For me it's something else making me stop, not my Brooks saddle.
@@sambabulli Just bought one. Came across a feller who came across another feller several years back who gave a great tip for leather break in. Soak in 105-120 degree water for 5-10 minutes or until pliable. Wipe off, apply mink oil, most generously in sit area for 5 minutes rubbing, go for a short ride with no padding check seat sit bone impression area, adjust, re-apply more mink oil. I did this and just wore some old spandex, didn't feel any pain. I literally have no meat down there so ended up with bike shorts, (women's). Have had it out a few times, most recent was a 25 miler. No issues. Only thing is getting the angle correct as it breaks in I keep sliding. I have it on a Niner gravel with drops. Plan is to do bikepacking so wanted some comfort. Time will tell. Everyone has their own take on comfort so whatever works for you. Am 68 yrs young.
I’ve been cycling at a competitive level for 50 years and have had dozens of saddles. The comments about a proper fit are spot on. BTW if you’re sore on one side, the saddles too high as it causes the rotation to compensate towards your favored leg. The sitting on cardboard thing is misleading as you interact with the saddle more forward on the pelvis than when sitting vertical. The bones taper to more narrow at the pressure point. Ok now for the crazy comment, every saddle I have is much more comfortable since I got shoes and orthotics that fit perfectly. More load spread over the whole footbed reduces pressure up the line.
The last part isn't that crazy. Sheldon Brown said the reason it's called a saddle and not a seat is because a seat takes your whole weight. Part of the reason so many people have comfort issues with their saddle is because they are trying to sit on it and then pedal, rather than pedal and using it to balance.
Excellent explanation about saddles. A bike fit, higher end saddle, a great wheelset can improve any cheap bike. You have proven this with your demo bike rides. Your videos are gems. The POV at the end is a dream come true single track for gravel bikes. You live in a beautiful area
Some comments on the general styles of saddles would have been helpful. For example "Boost" and "Power" are the trade names Selle Italia and Specialized use respectively for the newer short nosed saddles. These are shorter and wider, intended for a very stable fit, with little inner thigh rubbing at the nose. In contrast, the traditional long nose saddles (e.g. 270mm or more) are intended to allow the rider to slide back and forth depending on whether they want more weight on the pedals (e.g. while going up a hill) or sitting back (while coasting). A very small change in the the fore and aft and tilt can have a dramatic effect on the pressure you feel on your handlebars. For this reason having a two-bolt seat post that allows you to make fine adjustments and keep them there, is very helpful. It may take 10 rides for the perfect saddle to feel...perfect.
Specialized and I think Trek now allow you to try for 30 days at no risk. You can return them for refund if you don't like them.
What about ERGON...
Saddles and bibs are very subjective items since everyone one's physiology and time on the bike are different. Once I discovered the right saddle for myself, I try my best to stick with the same or similar design. Laugh if you want, but my mtn bike has a road oriented saddle because I tend to do long rides frequently.
Nothing wrong with that. I run the same saddle on all 4 of my bikes because it’s just the one that works!
I can break in a brooks B17 in three long days, and have had my present ones for over 25 years. Ultra distance cyclist Lon Haldeman showed me the break in method. 1) turn the bike upside down into a bucket of warm (NOT HOT!) water with glycerin. 2) Ride the wet saddle to relieve it in your pelvic areas. 3) Brush neatsfoot oil on the top and bottom. Do this three days in a row, and VOILA! Brush with oil every month afterwards. Last saddle you will ever buy! Saddle issues are never my concern, I still ride century rides at age 71, have ridden double centuries and BACK to BACK double centuries back in the day.
We didn't have saddle problems when racing in the 1980s, we didn't have creams and we didn't have these insane padded shorts. I used a lycra short with a very thin anti-friction layer, that is all the layer is meant to do, NOT pad you butt. I used a rock hard Brooks leather saddle. I raced ultra-marathon and even in the Race Across America with 20 hours a day in the saddle no problems. I will have to buy my own sewing machine because today like all other bike crap on the market, there is only one choice the wrong one. The manufactures are all afraid of making anything different, so now we have padding in the shorts which causes painful seem points, and no padding in the gloves where we do need it. It is like the entire industry just said: "lets make everything the opposite of what actually functions".
Great video as always Dustin - just saying, you can get a Brooks B17 with a cutout - they refer to them as imperial, maybe that's metric for taint. As for negatives, nothing like getting caught in a rainstorm without fenders with a saddle with a cutout - unless you dig on power washing your undercarriage.
Thank you for sharing.
Berthoud also makes the Aspin and Aramis model leather saddles in an “open” (cutout) configuration.
I love my Berthoud mirror! Selle Anatomica makes leather saddles with cutouts as well@@michaelmann6482
Try a custom formed Reform Seymour saddle and Icebreaker Merino Sports Boxers - long. No drama, no creme, no sores. Just fun riding. 👍🏽👍
Selle anatomica too
As someone who has more back problems than... undercarriage problems... The SMP saddles have been awesome. They are visually atrocious but they do a great job of keeping sensitive areas happy but where it really shines is that it does that while letting you rotate your hips forward have less of an acute bend in your lower back. SMP for the win.
As an aside, I came to give my two cents on saddles but ended up in the EBD webshop because that Campy Delta shirt is amazing!
SMP is amazing, one of the few saddle companies which actually have done research with a medical university. There should be no discussion about saddles without this brand.
The Brooks saddle is heavy but I disagree with the point of view that they are hard to break in and not weather proof. To break in a Brooks saddle soak it in water overnight and ride it the next day while it is still wet. It breaks in very quickly using this method. I have over 40,000 miles, on Brooks B-17's and they are still looking and feeling just fine. I do use Proofide from time to time.
Yes, the Brooks will fit the riders sit bones perfectly after break in. I used a damp washcloth overnight and road it dry the next day. About a month or 1000 miles it was "sit bone dented"; you know. I rode these saddles in Race Across America 20 hours a day. No problems.
Such a personal thing , once I found the right saddle for me I purchased a few of them , these were older saddles and took some tracking down.
I bought an Infinity saddle. Custom made Costs almost $400. No return policy unless defective. Best saddle I have ever had. No need for padding, the use of which would make for a less comfortable ride anyway. The saddle's secret. It is designed to evenly support around the sit--bone, not just on the inside and center of the sit--bone as almost all other seats are designed to do.
I have a Brooks Pro saddle from 1974 which has way over 20,000 of hours on it. I also ride a Brooks B17 saddle that has maybe 2000 hours on it and I use it on my Bikepacking Fatbike. The Unicanitor Cinelli plastic saddle is on my track bike which also has 1000's of hours on it.(I used to work at a Velodrome for several seasons). No, I do not use Butt Butter either, but almost always ride with a chamois. Yes the bike should be fitted to you! Now for my wife the saddle situation is far different. She went through a few saddles and it depended on what sort of bike she was riding(road, MTB or fatbike) what saddle works well. She uses Butt Butter all the time! Whatever, Get out there and ride, have FUN, be safe!
I used the old leather Avocet, Touring II, saddles for about 10 years, because it was right for me, then switched to a variety of racing ones for another twenty, none of which were anywhere near to comfortable. The Touring II went out of production. The one saddle I've found, recently, that is actually comfortable without exaggeration, is the Twenty dollar, not lying, SELLE-ROYAL, LATA saddle you get on line from Walmart. It really, truly, is thee most comfortable seat I've used in many, many years.
Charge spoon is my budget choice I've 365'd a faux brown leather one in British weather, and it has never given me issues riding 14 miles a day or 30+ on adventures without bib shorts
Can you still buy it? One of my old bikes had it, it looked like nothing special but oh damn was I surprised when I rode it through a whole year in jeans… it’s just perfect. I sadly sold the bike with it, not realizing it’s not available around here in Hungary.
Make sure the saddle is wide enough and does not collapse under your weight. Basically wide and flat and strong across where your sit bones make contact. You need to firmly sit on the saddle, not slide off to the side, or worse get impaled by one. If you're anywhere near 6 feet tall don't be afraid to go what seems wide, 150+ mm. It's not wide for your size
I look at these concepts and my immediate thought is: "How fast will they wear out in sunlight/under usage?". I can't help myself but imagining those small structure break apart bit by bit in a not so long period of time. While I really like the idea of individualized products, I will have to see reports of longterm usage first before investing. Material tests will be the key I guess.
My concern with the open lattice is it retaining and breaking down from road grit and slop if ridden in rain for long periods-kind of like how I had a perforated leather topped saddle get destroyed in a weekend double century rain fest. Just think smooth toppers are more weather and dirt resistant.
Most important thing is “if the shoe fits, wear it.”
After 30+ years of riding, I’m using Ergon and SQ Labs saddles with Gore Bibs and it’s been totally fine ❤ Gravel and XC
After the same three decades of riding Flite, Stella and Specialized saddles, I found the Ergon saddle to be like sitting on a wooden plank with splinters. After two months of riding the Ergon, I went back to an old Flite saddle and am again comfortable. Will be trying an adaptive saddle soon.
I hate having a cut out. It's just not comfortable for me. I've been using a Brooks B17 for a few months, and it is fantastic. I think I finally settled on a saddle.
Was your saddle properly sized? You shouldn't be able to feel the cutout. I'd say you tried saddles to narrow for your bum
Love the Antares (I have 5) but I tried the Antares with the relief channel and the relief edges started to shred my taint instantly. Impressively bad for a saddle shape that has already proven to work for me. Not a narrow saddle. Normal Antares for life. @@thispod
@@thispod Everything was sized correctly and was done with a local fitter with a great reputation. I tried ~12 saddles - anything with a cutout bothered me.
@@thispodsaddles with cutouts bother me too, they all suck. My favorite saddle, the Charge Spoon, has an indent, but not a cutout, and is super comfortable.
I’m another who finds a cut-out uncomfortable. I ride thousands of km per year and routinely over 100km on any given ride, almost always on drop bar bikes, and don’t use chamois and rarely use any lubricant. B17 works great for me.
I choose the Hobson Easyseat every time. Designed by an orthopedic surgeon & I've never had a sore butt since I started using it back in the nineties when I used to have order it through the mail. Only seat that moves with your legs & you can take a jump since you land on the base of your pelvic bone. I've ridden it for hours at a time with no discomfort & it's weatherproof & affordable. Oh, & taint friendly.
I wonder how many old school cyclists like me - I joined my first cycling club in 1948 - watch videos like this with astonished amusement? What a load of fuss about nothing - are people today that much softer than we used to be? I don't actually remember how many saddle choices there were then - I think I probably had a Brookes. In those days, though, we rode thousands of miles in ordinary corduroy shorts. No padding, lubrication never heard of, and yet, among all the cyclists I came across in my club years I don't recall anyone having problems in the nether regions. I certainly never did. Anyone else of my age still extant who would like to comment?
Amen. Beyond that, there are definitely leather saddles with the cutout for the taint.
I have the specialized one & it's excellent for my long distance bike packing .It was comfortable from day one .
Agreed!
I hate my new specialized seat. I would like to trade for almost anything else. It’s fine for the first hour but riding 3 or 4 hours is very painful.
This is a seriously great video, but I think you should put a revision somewhere so people don’t think leather saddles come without cutouts. Brooks makes saddles with cutouts, but many other companies make leather saddles with significant cutouts too.
most brooks saddles come with a cut out version and a pre - softened versions, this video is an advert he says at the start
Am using 3D printed seat, it works for me. Going for long distance no longer require frequent butt shifting and its so comfortable.
Umm... The leather Selle Anatomica saddles need zero break-in. I once did a double century on a brand new Selle Anatomica saddle after a day or two of dialing in the saddle positioning and tensioning of the leather. Maybe do a bit more research before making sweeping claims.
Yeah he's a bit GCN that way. He says what he's paid to. 💀
I'm not super picky for saddles, but I've found that a Brooks C15 Cambium (hard rubber, not leather, and fully weatherproof; no cutout) on my gravel bike and a Giant Fleet SL (with cutout) on my road bike have both worked well for me. I have ridden both saddles 300km in a single day without discomfort / saddle sores, and that's without using chamois cream. I don't think I can ask for anything more.
Do you feel the rivets? how does it feel in sub zero temps? Is it harsh during the winter?
My wife and I are avid cyclists. We fell in love with your channel because of your videos and cycling around nature. We're currently in the process of moving to Vancouver. Once we do and are settled in, we would love to one day visit Oregon and cycle with you, if you'll have us.
For novice riders the first thing to check/change for saddle pain is … riding Posture. Trying to ride a bike designed to sit the rider in an aggressive position, like a mountain or road bike, in an upright position will probably be uncomfortable. Good posture tends to crumble with fatigue. Riders who are fine with their saddle for the first 30 min but(t) notice soreness after the 60 or 90 minute mark may not be riding with the proper pelvic tilt as they tire.
Another area that may never have been taught or that falls apart with fatigue is Rocking the pelvis. A calm upper body, using just the lower body to turn over the pedals won’t use the nethers as a pivot point as the rider rocks right&left to turn over the pedals.
Most weekend riders have medium width sit bones and with good posture can jump on any stock saddle and have a good ride. Pushing the limits of frequency, duration, speed or a physical anomaly may showcase the need for a saddle change.
If the road/mtb rider is looking for the riser, shorter, or higher angle stem they will probably be looking for a new saddle as well. The casual(ish) flat bar rider who needs the palm support grips to relieve numbness, back and shoulder issues may also benefit from checking their posture.
Change saddles all you want but ensuring proper posture is a long term solution and it’s free.
Lots of ‘mays’ probably’ ‘tends’. Just a lot of what I’ve personally experienced & seen and helped with other riders.
Your pain is real, do Something to reduce it.
I also have 120mm between my sitbones and have been riding 140-145mm saddles for years but never got the issues completely away, went down a size and ride no 132mm and am free of issues.
What i did not account for in all those years, the more agressive your position on the bike is, the smaller the saddle has to be in most cases, because the sitbones are also narrower together when your hip is more rotated (=more agressive position)
My experience is the nose width is important. I measure the nose width every centimeter for 4 centimeters back from the nose tip.
A problem I've had with cutouts and scooped saddles is after awhile I can start feeling the edges or ridges where the material was removed.
It took years of the saddle-go-round. Brooks, no. Then I got a Selle Lite 209. The Answer. And it’s light, well made, durable and I’ve yet to have a numb package or a sore taint. All day rides,too. I’ve never used bibs or cream.
I don't know why this is, but I know everyone that rides moto will agree.
For some reason, a firmer saddle is more comfy on a long ride than a soft one. I have theories but I'm not an ass scientist.
Guys sometimes jump on my bike (some hard flat road saddle on mtb) and say it's not that comfy.
Well, it isn't, _right now_ . But after 3-4hrs people think it's some magic saddle. It's just really firm. That's it.
Thank you for reading my blog.
People that say that Brooks saddles changed their life had other saddles way too high in the first place. Brooks saddles sag so you sit way lower than a regular saddle if you keep the same seatpost height.
I am a casual rider. I'm not training for races, I ride because I like it and to stay in shape. My seat is the one that came on the bike and I have no problem at all with it.
I like your videos. Your presentation is fun and informative.
Personally, I'm a utility cyclist. I'm not doing a double century, I'm going out for a trip to the grocery store.
I'm 63 and showing my age. I have nerve damage in my hands and can't take pressure for more than a couple of miles, so I ride upright or on a recumbent. I don't really want to race, even if I were physically capable.
So my choice of bike seat is an old school mattress saddle. Not a cruiser seat with a bit of foam over a wide slab of plastic, but a web of springs stretched on a frame with more springs supporting the frame on the seat post. Plush and it soaks up some massive shocks on the local broken roads. But heavy and it also soaks up peddling power.
The seat has to fit more than the rider. It also has to fit the intended purpose. And there is more than just sports.
Next cycling goal? The ultimate urban cargo bike.
A few years ago, I bought into the short nose saddle craze. The concept is great & it does work...BUT the particular model I bought had a surface texture that wore out & became extremely smooth. Now when I use it the seat slips and slides from under me while trying to put down power. It totally defeats the purpose, & the seat cost a little too much to just replace. Luckily I bought a carbon composite model with a long nose & it works just fine!
One thing you missed: Showering. For some of us on the more... cough... crusty hippie end of the spectrum, this one can make a big difference. I used to rarely shower and get saddle sores. Now I always shower before and after a long ride. Showering more made a big difference.
This advice also goes for men who have sex with women who don't like getting UTIs.
I bought a Brooks B17 and it took over a year for it to break in. But in it's defense, I only rode that bike/saddle once a week for a couple hours, now it finally fits super comfy.
Half day, all day rides.
Inc century rides.
Non performance oriented.
No adult nappies, no specialist shorts.
Normal clothing, leather saddles not just Brooks, and the Cambium range is great.
I used a B17 for years. Still the best saddle I’ve ever used.
I used to have a hard saddle and be able to cycle for hours before the pain starts, then I got a comfy cushioned saddle for years. Now I got a new gravel bike with a hard saddle and the pain kicks in in just a few minutes.
I think part of it is just getting used to the saddle
It's all in your own body, gotta give it time and lots of 50 to 100 miles rides, you wear your saddle to suit I remember in the 80s every 2nd guy rode a Brooks riveted saddle they last forever, waterproof with Dubbin great 👍 for touring, me and dad averaged 100 miles a day for weeks, he lapped Ireland 1000 miles I did Length of Britain 🇬🇧 Plus, 1100 miles in 12 days, I've never had blister on bum or feet , kangaroo skin shoes now 44 years old/ in Yorkshire we call tough riders "HARD ARSE" !! Cheers 🍻 ❤from Australia 🇦🇺 😊
After I discover Brooks I got rid of all padded shorts and lubes. Long days (touring) in the saddle are no problem. I still have every one I've ever owned, and that started in the seventies. For me it is Brooks, Berthoud or Gyes for every bike. They all come with or without the cut out.
The comments are almost as good as the video. Lots of brooks love out there, but no mentions of the c13. The names are confusing but the c13 is like a broken in leather brooks. Super soft and squishy, and it has a cut out. I tried it on a whim and It literally changes the ride quality of your bike. I’m not running it on all of my bikes, but I like it for my flat bar ones. It’s interesting hearing everyone’s different experiences with the butt / saddle interface.
The Brooks Cambium aren't for everyone, but I can put 3-4 times the mileage on them compared to more conventional saddles from Smanie, Spesh, WTB, Ergon, etc. I find the C17 with or without cutout just works for me. It IS relatively heavy, (though I have been able to drop about 50 grams out of mine by disassembling and swapping parts between the 4 of them that I now own,) but the comfort on long rides has been great.
I also found the active saddles from SQ Labs to be comfortable on the MTB, but the creaking gets on my nerves.
I've not seen anyone mention creaking anywhere, interesting. Thx for sharing this. That is a no-no for me. I won't try the Sq labs then. Did you try several? did all creak?
I have to disagree with your assessment that comfort seats hurt your bottom more than standard ones. I tried one some years ago and it was a vast improvement over the tiny stock seat. The only problem was that it was butt-ugly on the bike and made it look nowhere near as cool. But as for keeping the bum comfortable, it was definitely an upgrade and worth it.
I ride about 10-15 hours per week and I thought I had the perfect saddle (for me) on my bikes. Then I purchased a new bike and tried out a 3D printed saddle (Specialized Mirror Romin Evo). It's an instant upgrade and worth every penny if you ride a lot. I have never been so comfortable on my bike. Everyone is different and your mileage may vary...but I am sold. Also, the video makes great points about the value in the right bike fit and a good pair of bibs, which are also key components to being comfortable on your bike.
Using the retul system for 2 years I have learned 80% of people need a wide or 150. And about 2% of people would actually fit a small width saddle
I have several "Transportation" bicycles. All have brooks leather saddles and a two bolt seat post. The seat bolts are one in front and one in the back. This give a much better adjustment.
With the leather saddle the wide back part I mount to were it is level. So when I am sitting and peddling, my weight is straight down on the level part, where my sit bones touch the saddle, like sitting in a chair.
If the back part is tilted then the sit bones slide and pinch nerves, causing pain.
I have ridden over 100,000 miles and rode across the US and a leather saddle, mounted with the back level is best.
my thoughtts are . . . half an hour ride, whatever you ride will be fine. everything longer . . . definitely need a good fit, chamois and a comfortable stiff saddle.
I'm a 68 yr old who rides a minimum of 300kms per week and the only time I have saddle/butt issues is early spring when mileage is low and the sit bones lose their callous. I've never had to or wanted to use chamois butter as my fear is, I won't callous properly. My advice is, if you're having chafing problems, it ain't your saddle...it's your tender ass that needs more saddle time....period! Any guitar player will tell you, the same applies to their fret hand...JUST PLAY MORE!
I've got 2 Fizik Antares VS R1 saddles, I've had them for a few years, one on my Mountain Bike, the other on my Gravel Bike, I ride from 2 to 5 hrs each ride, this saddle is amazing, 4 comfort zones, soft in the rear, stiff in the front, I just wear good padded shorts, stand to pedal a few times a ride, nothing compares to 3D printed saddles. Comfortable, easy to clean, weather doesn't effect, breathable, rugged, beautiful. I rode mostly on the Charge Spoon before this saddle, lightweight, comfortable, great looking, easy on the wallet, but the 3D wins overall.
I will say I run Pearl quest bibs for 5+ hours rides and I’m fine. They are very much budget bibs
Leather saddles are available with cutouts. And not all of us need to break them in. For me, they're fine out of the box. My favorite saddle is the Brooks B17. The intolerance to water is a problem. My commuter bike has a Brooks C17 (non-leather) saddle for that reason.
I really enjoy the Fizik Argo R1, seriously the most comfortable saddle I've ever used.
Alex KNOWS!!
@@EverythingsBeenDone Also, I have to agree about those Ornot bibs. I have a pair and some other products of theirs, and it's nice stuff. That chamois in those Gore Distance Bib 2.0 look primo. Grundle approved.
Sella anatomica--Leather saddle with huge cut out and no break in required--also made in USA
I've ridden on leather saddles since 1974. Natural fiber undies, no padding, no cream. Keep cycling 👍
Dustin, i'm watching....i think for 3 years now, from somewhere in the midde of Europe and i just wanna say once..... i love you 8)
Much love and respect player!
I have been riding on the Fizik Argo since January this year. Ultra distance gravel events, 750km plus. Would never go back. Agree with all your prelim comments, although I don’t use “chammy cream” most ultra riders are using other products now that are more effective. Thanks for the channel, I enjoy your humorous and straightforward delivery. All the best.
What are those alternative products?
@@sl3848 Avene (brand) Cicalfate+ skin repair cream. This is applied directly to the skin. It will also repair existing wounds/ abrasions very fast. Most of use re-apply daily on multi day events and before sleep if you are going to.
Literally just got back from my ride on my new Santa Cruz Stigmata! Thanks for an epic review a few week ago. Your vid’s are dope
Oh man tha bike RULES!
Did the video help you decide to swoop on the stigmata?
@@EverythingsBeenDone Yea it totally did! Thanks again!
One problem I've found with saddles with cut-outs is not the cut-out itself but ridges in the padding around the cut-out that cause discomfort.
I swear by leather saddles (a 98.- euro Brooks B17, to be precise). I rode one through Chilean Patagonia without any padding in winter 2023/24. In fact, the padded cycling shorts was the only item in my luggage I've never used on that trip. Roughly half of the trip was the notorious wave-shaped "ripio" (gravel). It was quite comfortable from day one, although, true, a bit harder. As for weather, we've seen rain for an entire day sometimes. No problem, just have some rain cover at hand for the saddle. A plastic bag would do.
$400+ Now I know why you didn't mention the prices...ouch. I mean, riding WITHOUT a saddle would hurt less.
Gotcha!
Now that I found your channel, let me "spill some beans", I am a bike commuter, found you anyway.
I got a leather saddle, ride in every weather (really EVERY weather), I don't wear bibs - and it still works!
Rides are usually below an hour though.
But nice video, thanks for the information. And the entertainment.
Off bikes for 10 years.
From July 1st to October 21 I've riden 1,400 miles on a new Trek hibread.
Using my Brooks Imperial on the older ThudBuster seat post and all is fine.
Tilt is very important on a Brooks. At 76yo all is well.
I pass very few roadies and slow down when they get on my rear wheel.
Ride for life.. ride your own ride. I compeat with no one.
🤪
I have different saddles on different bikes. My gravel bike has a Prologo thing that looks like a razor blade and my upright tourer has two saddles - a B17 brooks for my own riding and a C19 Brooks for commuting and doing my job a cycle instructor. all three are extremely comfortable and I can spend multiple hours in the saddle. I have two for my tourer because the B17 is tops for long days fully loaded but at work I get on and off my bike multiple times often in bad weather so the B17 has little protection from water. When I'm riding for pleasure my body protects the saddle and I put a bag over it when I stop - it really is worth that effort as it's the comfiest saddle I have ever owned - but I wouldn't use it on my gravel bike. It really is a minefield which I am just getting to grips with at the age of 58!
I found you because it showed up on my phone.
After spending thousands on saddles over the years, the only saddles I’ve found that actually provide perineum relief is SQ labs. I rode Brooks for a couple of years but I was still getting numbness that I was dealing with by standing up in 30 second bursts.
I used to be a bike messenger in Houston in the mid 90s. I was on the saddle from 8AM to sometimes midnight 5 days a week and never wore any kind of bib. It was boxers under cargo shorts. I’m hairy. I’ve never had any discomfort even on rainy days wearing all that cotton.
Cleaning each of those little holes is an OCD nightmare!
What a gyp! Crucial downsides of these saddels are that they are way heavier and the material will age quickly by what the saddle loses its cushioning features.
Algorithm, that's what brought me here. I am not a competitive cyclist. I use a bike to commute. The type of work I do is not done in one place so we have about 20 worksites in the area. The closest one is 5 miles away, and the furthest one is 20 miles away. I have been injured and unable to ride or work for a few months. I have found that the saddle feels less comfortable than it used to, especially on longer rides. I'm pretty sure it's because I am quite a bit heavier than I used to be. The saddle thing is worst in the summer when it's hot, I bought some Vaseline and it worked pretty well as a "lube" but in the hot weather it turns to liquid. I've been in this boat before, it just means taking a couple "butt breaks" at least on the way home when I'm tired. Oh yeah a tip, if your bike has been in the sun on a hot day, pour water on your saddle and let it evaporate, before you sit on it. This will cool it down,
Grundle?
I'm not a performance cyclist, and yet RUclips recommended this video! However, I am quite obsessed with getting a comfortable saddle.
On longer rides my butt supported by $20 saddle w/ cut-out is last thing giving me trouble. No bibs, no cleats. Maybe I'm just cycling wrong.
Having a cut out is imperative for me, also a wider seat helped too and having a seat with memory foam in it negates the need for bibs *cough* nappies *cough*, just hop on and ride.
I've an older model BBB saddle, but something like the current BBB SoftShape Active is awesome.
I've done 4hr long rides and not had a problem. Having said that I'm trail riding and shuttling on a fully sprung MTB. Road bikes would likely be a different situation.
Definitely some good points - Except one!
The saddles with cutouts I've tried (several over the years) invariably have HURT ME!
Almost every saddle with a cutout I've tried has, after a few hours or even minutes, felt like someone wedging my pelvis bones apart on every bump. They do not work for me. They leave bruises and sores.
I've found the cutout isn't as important as some relief - an indent. I think it being connected prevents the sit bone supports from bending down and allowing the cutout ridge to form a wedge.
My favorites are the SQLab's MTB saddles - even for road/gravel bikes. They come in several sizes/widths so they will actually fit and support the part of the butt that is meant to be supported without punching the parts that are not!
People with low fitness, low density muscles will have trouble with the sit bone area, you have to put in the time for muscle density from training. I would suggest anyone who wants to try cycling begin off season in the autumn with weight training to buld up the glutes and quads and calves, plus the upper body for all the isomentric stress of supporting your body. Even as a pro racer I weight trained expecially for the upper body in the off season. You can always skip this advice and begin cycling to build up muscle mass and density while you cycle. For you, learn the technique of out-of-the-saddle pedaling for periods longer than a minute. Smooth efficiet pedal strokes relaxed out of saddle pedaling.
❤🔥 EBD newsletter Your Key to Grundle Greatness: bit.ly/EBDgear
Brooks B17 for everyday and touring / Audax (600km - 1200km rides) and Brooks Swift on faster road bike. Your rear just floats over the leather, no sores ever. On the B17 I ride with cycling shorts through to Jeans. I've used other saddles and not had many problems, but Brooks is like sitting in an armchair. I like Sunday Café rides where 'serious roadies' look at my Brooks with respect and amazement over how hardcore it is to ride Brooks - little do they know it's easy streets!
Was $325 outrageous....you bet!!!! But I bought it anyway! THE most comfortable saddle I have ever used! But measure your sit bones to get the best out of any saddle that fits your measurements!....My Saddle is the Specialized 3-D Printed saddle and I got the right width to fit my Sit Bones...
Thanks for sharing!
People sometimes ask me how (or why) I do 6-8 hour endurance cross country rides on a 50 year old road bike wearing jeans, tennis shoes and a hoodie. The answer is that my scrotum has turned to shoe leather long ago and I resist saddle sores through rage alone and maybe a water bottle full of cheap whiskey. The way it used to be done. 🤣
$500 for a saddle is rediculios
The real trick is is padded shorts. Unbelievable difference
I ride very long distance wearing jean shorts and a cotton t-shirt. I think that sizing is the most important factor.....not to mention 50 plus years of riding.
Been riding the power mirror pro and it is definitely legit. I got it heavily discounted or I would never have bought it. Worth every penny I spent but not worth $400
The most comfortable saddle i ever owned was a properly adjusted Brooks leather saddle. Next was an SMP Atheos. Most saddles that come on bicycles are junk or bottom line. You can't ride them for hours without some sort of issue.
The world needs a tour of your akrobin setup
I'm road my first century on a $300 custom hybrid, $60 biv and a duck taped comfort saddle worth $0. last time i spent money on a "proper saddle" I couldn't sit down on the seat after 40 minutes. buying all this expensive gear is for people who have more money then they know what to do with. The best gear is the gear you already have.
I have a Brooks B17 (leather). It was comfy straight out of the box and is still comfy, the only drawback being that it needs protection from the rain. Also love the supercool retro look. And I grew up less than half a mile from the Brooks factory in Birmingham, so it's also a matter of heritage and romance for me. I did the Fiets Elfstedentocht on it and my arse was as good as new at the end of the day.