Dealer BUTCHERED this BMW?! (Crank No-Start)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 май 2022
- Last car of the NYC trip...a 2009 BMW 328i crank no-start.
Owner took it in to the dealer for a warranty valve cover gasket replacement.
Less than a week after getting it back, the car started acting up and barely made it back to his garage...It never started since.
Parts cannon tried a fuel pump and driver module, which was fruitless.
The root cause of the no-start will BLOW YOUR MIND.
IVAN'S PICO WAVEFORMS:
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
THINK TOOL PROS:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXWHQVJ?...
PHAD PRESSURE TRANSDUCER:
www.pinehollowdiagnostics.com/...
Enjoy!
Ivan 
Авто/Мото
Right at the end of the video, the look on the guy’s face (behind Ivan) is priceless as to how he is evidently feeling about the situation. Assuming that is the owner.
It looked like he was plotting his revenge on the dealer.
I didn't even notice him. He is not amused.
@@TonyRule To my eyes, he is disgusted with the dealer and all the lost use of his car. I wonder if this warrants hiring an attorney.
@@notaffiliatedwith7363 A customer not comfortable with a rocker cover replacement isn't going to be doing anything that would require him to disconnect the grounds.
Take that face to the dealer!!!
What an absolute legend Keith is
Keith is the High Priest of Automotive Wisdom, Advice, and Prophecy.
😂
Epic diag hands down, Really humble of u to call in for help.
I really enjoy this channel. It seems almost every diagnosis leads to someones sloppy work. 'Good Job!'
You'd be surprised if you knew how sloppily the majority of work is done out there. Grand part of the muppets we call society only care about muh brand and muh friends say its good. Good work is increasingly hard to find because mediocrity is largely rewarded.
Car not running goes back home 😂😂
Keith to the rescue! Great diag Ivan even tho you havent heard from owner! Today is my birthday!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!
Happy Birthday Roxanne , happens to be mine too!
Did the dealer actually do the work? The owner did change the pump and module, and as someone already mentioned, how did it get home? Just a thought, maybe he changed the gasket himself and didn't hooked the ground back up. Just a thought, I know dealers screw up plenty but sometimes it's hard for owners to admit they screwed up.
Yeah, that's exactly right. I'd bet that if the "dealer mechanic" was doing that job, that mechanic is certified and knows, "Death Do Us Part" if those grounds are not hooked up...
Good point, I think you may be right. Maybe that's why Ivan never heard back from the owner. When Ivan makes a return visit to program the new ECU that the owner puts in we'll know the truth!
Agree, he was probably, " let me start the thing before hooking everything up ". Mistakes happens to everyone and this is probably "learning the hard way" for him.
My thoughts exactly , am think the owner is telling porky pies.. Ivan is too much of a gentleman to call him out on it.
I think you might be right That makes sense because if something like a fuel pump got damaged you couldn't drive a car home like that
I think everybody would love to have identifazio as a phone a friend option 😆😆!!
Happy birthday Keith hope all is well!! Ivan awesome work as usual!!!
Wow, that's really bad call of the dealer not to finish the job! Take it back and you got the documentation and owner can provide that to dealer, they should replace it!! I would be pissed!! Nice of Keith to join in and provide valuable information about the BMWs!! Great video!!
Ivan I remember back in the nineties and early 2 thousands when I would grossly overwork myself running air conditioning service calls here in Houston I often had a look on my face like the look you had on yours in this video..
Don't overwork yourself...
He doesn't like to not solve the problem. But it sounds like it was too screwed up to fix. Although...the guy drove it home and must not have had any problems then. A very strange case to a typically great running car.
Very true, full mental recovery can take quite a while ... learn to say NO to more and more jobs. Your family will thank you.
Yes, I was feeling the pressure of still having to do that drive all the way home
@@chiluco2000 Ivan ?
@@2packs4sure I meant, of him still having to drive back home... but I was feeling the pressure, not finding the root of the problem and getting late into the night...
Wow I have no words, but great diagnosis as ever. Not the outcome I was expecting.
Dealer butchered a BMW? This is odd since BMWs usually butcher themselves.
Usually, but these are actually really solid minus a few oil leaks, a sensor or two, and a water pump every 10 years or so.
@@briantii Agree. These series cars at that year were solid. They had to really do something bad to screw it up like this.
Lmfao
It was butchered at the design table.
You probably never owned a bmw to be talkin shitn😅
Wow, If the dealer did leave those grounds off, I would be livid. Another excellent video, Ivan.
I did a valve cover gasket on that motor in an X3 a couple of weeks ago. Pretty hard to miss those two grounds but haste sometimes makes waste. Good catch.
Great video as always Ivan !!!!! That battery sounded shot . It was cranking soooooo slow
Love the structured approach! Could you have used diagnostic tool to graph fuel pressures instead of doing ammeter?
There is a chance the DME could be fried but those grounds are for shunt dissipation, the coils are designed to multistrike and what I mean is that after the initial ramp and closing of the field they will still strike 5-7 more times, and whatever build up of electricity is left shunts through those grounds. Effectively, the coils do still spark even if you took all 3 grounds off or in the case of the Mini Prince motors you leave its single ground off. BMW products have never killed spark for any reason in a cylinder even a dead hole misfire. I would not forget to try starting it with the Valvetronic eccentric shaft sensor unplugged, or even unplugging the motor and turning the eccentric shaft by hand by means of sticking a 5mm allen in the motor and leaving it in a different position, Valvetronic will failsafe and you will use the throttle body as your means of intaking air. I have seen the eccentric shaft sensors do crazy things, and because its mounted to the actual cylinder head inside the valve cover and its female connector sticks out through it there is a chance of damaging it when removing the cover. Also, an uncoded EKP will just throw the fuel pump into full working load. The weird cranking could be the valvetronic not knowing what is going on and hitting a different setpoint as it opens and closes the intake valves as it tries to start. On another note too, that car is 12 years old, the coils are so notorious for failing we do a nice and dandy easy 36 a week. Not saying throw parts at it, but make sure the coils are in working order.
Some of the things I've mentioned might be common knowledge, don't know, but all I do is BMW/Mini products so sorry if it's something you already know. The only BMW product I know that really does not like those shunt protectors not installed is the V8 twin turbo with the ground being integrated into the plastic shrouding over the coils, very very easy thing to forget and very costly when it kills the TWO DMEs, and kills the BSD signal meaning alternator, oil level sensor, IBS in the trunk, water pump... and if you don't replace all you run the risk of frying all those AGAIN after startup, with the ground reinstalled. There is a TSB for that one.
Good info. What does it mean when the steering wheel shudders when at a stop and turning lock to lock? I can't figure that out.
I was also thinking valvetronic issue. I haven't done a non turbo 3 series but have read they can cause these issues when not reinstalled and endpoints re-adapted properly.
Not true! This type of coil is actually a transformer and high voltage side is connected to ground and to the spark plug. It wont spark (at the spark plug) if the ground is off. It will cook the ignition coil and then the spark enters the low voltage side and the engine control unit. I have diagram of those coils -> mankeli.dy.fi/bmw/328coil.jpg
Great Diag as always Ivan. Good call on getting that great backup support to. WhooHoo, KD to the rescue. Lol That island stuff will never cease to surprise us for sure. Thanks Ivan
that was one heck of a italian diag, with all that spaghetti under the hood, wha wha wha, u are a saint for traveling all that way to complete it. amazing to see u drive many hours back home, glad to see u made it back safely, thanks for posting, hope u had a good holiday with the Mrs, u deserve it
How did the vehicle get home??? Must be more to this story.
i think owner did valve cover .. and forgot the ground
Yeah I'm suspicious .... this seems kind of fishy.
Dealer works on car, car doesn't run.
How'd it get to his house?
Sound evidence of wiring left disconnected, anybody would be calling the dealer to pick it up.
Owner says nah, I'll just pay for new ECU and programming.
Never gets back to our man about resolution.
Methinks there's more to this one...
I look forward to your vids awesome knowledge you have thanks for sharing
Man you're a good teacher.
Talk about negligence - dealer should eat the repair and then some! Great diagnostic of a nasty problem (fuel pump was just a "fait divers") and Keith's hint was invaluable, as usual :-)
staten island the ultimate training school
@@jackiemay9471 Yep. Odd cases galore 🙂
The dealer should definitely cover it. Even though it's an honest mistake, a loose wire hidden in the back-- things happen. But the real fault falls on BMW design. Misplace one ground and your computer grenades itself. That's pathetic.
@@calholli Yep. That design is a trap - the electronics should be protected from overvoltages. Corrosion or vibration could also break that wire, with the same nasty results.
yeah, dealer from bobs garage in da hood lol
Man we learn a lot with you
Thanks
I don't think Ivan was told the truth about this car, as in " WHO REALLY DID THE VALVE COVER " ?
I see a LOT of comments about how the vehicle made it home. My best guess judging by the video is that the ground cable may have still been touching ground for a bit after the work was done at the dealer. The loss of ground during the drive may not be immediately evident outside of a frostbite misfire because of the current finding a path to ground through another ground path ( not a good one). Certainly there is potential in a case like this that the customer could have been making something up, bit I think I remember there being an invoice mentioned on that phone call.
Sounds like there is more to the story because if the valve cover wasn’t touched other than by the dealer then it’s clearly their fault and they should pay for it .
Kinda what I was wondering at first too..just how much of driving around until it finally gave up. Electricity does have it's funny and sometimes destructive way to find ground. Doesn't it.? lol
BTW...I may have already mentioned congrats on another trip around the sun..but I'll say it again anyways :)
Happy Birthday Keith
nice to hear from you keith hope you are good
@New Level Auto We miss you Keith,there i said it.
Ivan pointed out that the nut was still on the post, but yeah, maybe it was touching for a while after the repair.
I agree the dealer would not to see me and if necessary my attorney. Keith and Ivan the dynamic duo.
Did you address the A0B4 code being thrown by the CAS? If you crank the car enough times without starting, the CAS will disable the car. It's an anti-theft feature. You have to use INPA or other BMW tools to resynch the CAS and the DME. That might be causing your problem.
Was wondering the same thing
The key sign is on the dash…..
going to tighten all the coil grounds on my BMW tonight!
I am going to press the brake on my Tundra and press START and just drive to work. I have a MB Sprinter at work...it is a COLLASAL PILE OF SHIT.
They're easy to miss on reassembly if you're not diligent. I've done it but didn't fry my ecu.
Thank you PHAD
Oh no. What a great diagnostic exercise with team work. I hate it for the customer but it was sure interesting to hear what happened.
Nice moto and keith
Thanks for another great video!
I had a very similar thing happen to my S-10. It still runs fine.
This was fascinating thank you. 🤘
Keith to the rescue!
Genius diagnosis
Nice shot of the new Tappan Zee Bridge. I thought you referred to these cars as, "Big Money Wasted," Ivan. I guess their money is as good as any one else's....Great video!
Great info thanks IVAN
He changed that valve cover himself I bet. You probably got half the story as most mechanics do
Wow. We all make mistakes but completely forgetting a ground connection ruined a vehicle. Geez.
German Fragile Electrical Engineering ruined that ECM. It's not by accident; they design crap on purpose.
Ahhhh. The New Tappan Zee bridge....?
Sure sounds like the starter needs a little love....
thank you kieth
Defazio is a legend. Hope he's on the next Staten Island express trip.
As a BMW owner I swear everytime I hear that warning bong sound it triggers me. They might as well replace it with the sound of an ATM withdrawing cash 😂
Lol
Thats amaizing,thanks Sir.
A expensive problem, was it the dealership or the owner?
Keith is a godsend, a great friend :-D
What that man doesn't know doesn't matter.
Interesting one Ivan fingers crossed new module will fix it...F.
Awesome episode, just subscribed
how did car get home FROM dealer with missing ground? Was that back lug just sitting on top of post and then later jumped off? Wowzer! That computer will be at least $1,000, right?
some others say the computer could have worked AT FIRST before the drivers cooked.
I was just thinking the same thing. It's easy to forget tightening those grounds down on a BMW so I always go around 2-3 times just in case. Didn't know you could fry a computer by not having one tight though.
It was probably fine until the computer got fried without the ground attached
Ivan said in another comment that it drove ok for a few days until the dme cooked itself apparently.
my neighbor has a old honda hatchback with acura tsx engine and i swear that ecu is a tank,i seen him literally switch wires around from sensors with no idea what they do/jump random wires/even had tps wires that were grounding on the closed hood/was missing valve cover ground and still the ecu didnt get damaged.the ecu is a acrua rsx and was just amazed he could just jumper wires around and short to ground and still not damage ecu.
Hope we hear back from the customer ...
I'M not a BMW tech, just a regular master tech, but I know they fry modules if the slightest ground issue happens...You'd think their techs would be very worried about grounds? :/
I drove my vw with a broken ground wire. All it did was reset the clock on the dash almost daily. The trick is that it is a 30 yr old diesel vw with probably zero modules 😉
You'd think the engineering wizards at BMW could design modules that don't destroy themselves if a bad ground happens to appear.
Wow, that dealer should have to fix their screw up, AND pay Ivan`s bill.
I don't think the story is true. If that rear ground had been disconnected, the car would have already run on three cylinders at the dealer's workshop.
You were wise, Ivan, to call for tech assistance. I don't know who this Keith gentleman is, but he certainly knew what to do.
Keith is the wizard that lives in the shadows but sees all, or lives in his tower?
Agreed, and so would have the dealer mechanic, if the vehicle ever was at serviced by a certified dealer mechanic.
the previous fuel pump suspected problem sent you down a rabbit hole. this is another example of why I always check for spark first on a crank no start. I use an inline spark tester, no need to even pull a plug., just snap it between the boot and the plug. if one plug isnt sparking, I check a couple others incase one or more of the coils or plugs are bad.,,. this will save you alot of time and aggravation., many cars are wired to where they will have spark without fuel, but not fuel without spark. also the probability of a ignition problem is much higher than a fuel delivery problem in most cases. bmws or volvos that have sat for a while without running tend to have the fuel pumps seize on them, but when they are run regularly, they rarely fail.
That thing sounds terrible before the fix. Still watching to see the results
Can the DME be sent out for repair by a bench tech?
I’m originally 2hrs north of NYC. Wonder if he was in the Kingston, NY area.
I just had a no crank, no start on my E38. Intermittent battery strength due to the heat bearing down on the Phoenix area messed with the DME. Unplugged battery for 30 minutes and installed a new one. Fired right up. A temp gauge that pins to red when the car is cool suggest the DME is not communicating. Needs a reset.
Great ,Great as always ivan ...keith tho no words!
12:45 , am i the only one who is scratching heads for the in cylinder and injection waveforms ... timing wise since both are from cylinder #1 ... why would the injector fire in power stroke and what is that deep vacuum on the intake stroke ,some one help me here i think i missed something
You’re the man I bet you don’t do the valve stem seals in the heads ???
Unreal. Can't even imagine the laziness and sloppy brainless work on a simple valve cover swap. Thanks Ivan!
More troubling is the fact that one tiny wire can bring the whole car down and/or destroy the ECU ...thats crazy engineering...weakest link theory
@@nickmalone3143 Completely agree!
How did he drive it home??
Even Ivan sounds sarcastic when he says "If the dealer did it, I'd be upset",
what's the easiest way to test the grounds arent bad even if connected?
thing sounds like it has weird compression while cranking
How'd the car get home from the valve cover job?
After all did the car is running fine or not
Wait MAF is used when cranking??
Nice to know these turds are so well engineered that something as simple to fix as a broken ground will have far reaching expensive ramifications.
So how did he drive it home from the dealership ?
What did u test with test light on ground on coil pack ...before start
Wasnt there a code in the CAS system which was the security system?? Was it a code that the immo was cutting off the spark??
Ivan, it's really hard to see a really nice car just fall apart. I have to wonder what the owner was really thinking as I watch his face near the end of this clip. (19:27) Wish we had some closure on this one beyond your diagnosis. You must feel the same way. Thanks for including the Pico scope files and the screen prints. Thanks for Sharing
Phone-a-friend for the win! 🏆
if you take it off put it back on. I'm sure it's not cheap to fix. Wonder if it could be fixed?
Hi, I removed the airintake manifold and all the attached components, to gain access to the starter. The nut was loose. I tightened the nut, while in there, replaced CCV and all the temperature sensors, 3 in total. Put everything back together. Now the car cranks but won't start. Tested the injectors by a scanner, they all show "off" with key in position 2. I cleaned every connector with connector cleaner and made sure they are all properly firmly connected. I have fuel in the rail, the fuel pumps works fine.
Measured the voltage on the injector wiring harness with a multimeter. Negative on the car body, positive on each prong of the connector. I do have 12 volts on one prong and about 4 volts or the other prong. This is the same for all six connectors. The problem now is instead of 4 volts, I think I should have zero volts. Would you please give me some guidance. Thanks.
i have my doubt it went to dealer .how did get home hum
I only know you need to be very careful about who you have work on your equipment ect . Thanks for the videos
How long did the guy have valve cover gasket replaced before this happened
How about fuel system light shown up
Ground at the vc cover?
I also have a BMW. Which scanner are you using?
You have proof that the grounds were left disconnected? Like a picture right as it left the bay at the dealer? didn't think so
Now the first time I heard the engine crank it sounded like one cylinder had less pressure than the rest. So let's see what is found.
They sound bad with the engine cover off so when they're actually bad, they sound horrendous!
yes i thought i heard a fault in the caydence when cranking
how did the car get home from the dealer with the missing earth?
Where can I buy that code reader ?
Actually Volvo did something very simular to me. They pinched my maf sensor wires with a metal wire they wrapped around a loam of wires and the 5v and 12v went full contact and burnt out the 5v driver. Had to eat the cost also to have it repaired. And first thing I did was to remove all that crap and put isolation extra on all the wires. Have not had a single issue with the ecu sens then.
Some of these technicians are working at lightening speed to get through cars and do stupid stuff like this.
@@TheFrenchPug that is true and the ironic thing is even after they swapped the ecu and programmed it they programmed it very very wrong. The car ran yes. I have the 2.4L Turbo xc70 2001. And they did not install the correct firmware rather they took a firmware for the 2.5L with no turbo. So had codes for the overhead cams and no boost solinoid actuation. They did set the key coding and such correctly so I was like fiiiiiine leave it and took the car over to a local tuner and said hey here you go keys for the car. Do your magic make the car run as good as you can. Ended up with a much better firmware update that got the car near 300hp and 2stage limiter. Ripped out the boost controller all together and hardwired the boost to stay at maximum and compensate with fuel and timing. It's been running like this for 3y now and not one single problem aside from a dead ignition coil that is 20y old so I'm extremely happy with their tune as they don't even normally work on Volvos
@@ToxicwasteProductions whats thef downside of running max boost all the time ...premature wear of turbo by stressing it
@@nickmalone3143 I was afraid of the turbine failing or the pipes cracking or failing. But so far not really anything gave happend. Other then the turbo spinning away all happy. I normally drive my car fairly hard so I figure if something is going to break Im sure it will during a pull. I have only had sensor failures of the car. No hardware like turbos and other things just like solinoids and maf boost sensors and such fail. And those i put it to old age :) I'm running about 29psi boost at 4000rpm stock is line 5psi to 10psi on my model. So it's a huuuge power gain when you hit 2500rpm and the turbo starts really spooling up.
@@TheFrenchPug agree
correct me if im wrong but the injector waveform seems well passed where it should be... almost looks likes it in the beguining of the exhaust stroke...
Yeah I thought the same whats up with that
Yeah I watched it back and I think Ivan did say everything was on pot 1. Looks like it should be for the next in the firing order ie 5
@@schammo8893 Makes perfect sense! missed that part
Hi Ivan - You faced this issue while diagnosing the 4x4 bmw with the oil level sensor and unplugged grounds... IIRC where the customer drove 15 odd hours to get to your shop
How did the car get back from the dealer after the valve cover job?
@T.J. Kong I agree. There's more to the story. That's probably why the customer doesn't seem to be that upset. He knows he screwed up. How did he get the car to his garage from the dealer if it wouldn't start?
It drove "OK" for a few days until the drivers in the DME burned up.
I have 2014 Hyundai Sonata 2.0 4th gear ⚙️ makes hard shift and rpm go all the way to 6000. I changed fluid 3 times. Nothing changed.
That’s an internal,solenoid issue or clutch related issue inside the transmission most likely.
I admit it might just be the acoustics of that place; but that engine sounded horrible when cranking; and the starter sounded even worse
It's a BMW thing lol, JUNK.
It had a low battery, for sure.
This is normal for BMW...premium price for total shit box
@@andylowe2725 yes but he started charging it and it cranked faster but still sounded like shit
@@mikefoehr235 yes indeed; added bonus dealer screwing things up for you
How did he get home from the dealership originally?
Ok. Ive done several valve covers on 3 series BMWs. It's very easy to do and hard to screw up. I hope they didn't cause too much damage. It's always something simple. But forgetting to attach a ground cable is absolutely retarded. Only other thing could have been a faulty reinstall of the valvetronic motor. Other than that it's just rebolting down the cover and reconnecting everything. You have to know exactly what those meat heads did putting it back together.
How did the owner get the car back from the shop??
I had a problem like this 8n a Ford Lincoln town car. It was the safty shutoff switch in the trunk. I felt like a fool
Most BMWs have an Intelligent Battery Sensor in the trunk on the battery negative. If they go bad they will stop your car from starting but crank like it's trying. If you unplug it the car fires right up.
@@TheFrenchPug the computer should report the status (or lack thereof) of any sensor
Yes, I think that the owner is not telling all the facts. I saw his face at the end when Ivan told him what the diag discovered. Thanks Ivan.