Honestly, I think the fire torch is the most elegant solution. I’d say to keep up with it for every 2 weeks because that’s when the newborns begin to open their eyes and walk. Sure, animal suffering sucks but diseases and crop damage are no joke
I try to check at least every two weeks, as you say. To be able to kill the young in the nests before they start to walk. I think this has been the most effective part of the method, to kill the next generation. With the traps, and predators that kill some of the adults, the young might still be raised by others in the colony, and then end up as adults that need to be killed. Even if a few adults escape every time I asphyxiate a nest, at least I have stopped that generation from appearing. I don't like the idea of killing the babies, but it is better than having them starve or struggle, and a lot better than the damage that they can do.
My neighbor has a rat terrier. Has caught 12 rats in one day. Specialized rat hunting dog has made a huge difference in our neighborhood. The feral cats get a few, but mostly the dog keeps them under control. The rats are very smart and it is hard to trap them. Chickens and the feed that go with them is the main source of rats in our town.
Jack Russell's are great for killing rats, as are most terriers. A cat may kill the rat which piques its interest, or for food if feral. But those dogs are hardwired to do this job. I used to go ratting round farms, and factories with my father, and our Jack Russell's as a kid. Even the scent of a rat, or burrow will get those dogs hyped up. We even had a few who would go off hunting on their own, then sit at our backdoor with a few mice or rats laid out waiting on my father. Chest pushed out and all proud of themselves. Basically showing off what they had killed the night before. One bitch would even defend them if anybody apart from my father tried to depose of them. She was leaving them for him to see. Oh, and get praised for it.
Yeah, terriers can be great hunters, and in some contexts they can be a really effective way to rapidly reduce the rat population. What often seems to happen is the rat population builds up to a really problematic level, and then a bunch of terriers are brought in to kill as many as possible at one time. Cats seem to be better at the gradual, continual process of keeping the population low. I have shifted to the method of tying to never let the population of rats to get too established. I had a bad experience when my neighbour brought their terrier up for a hunt, and it ended up making a real mess of things, and damaging plants in the gardens while chasing down rats. To me it seems a lot easier, less mess, and just as effective to asphyxiate the nests.
I agree I think a ratting terrier is almost the kindest and quickest way to get rid of rats. If you have someone in your area who has such a dog. We have to give up the poison, it kills owls and all sorts of other animals.
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Ticks are everywhere were animals go.. 🤷♀️ Even cats & dogs have them.. There are tablets for the dogs that will eliminate ticks for about 3 months... Best natural prevent for one self, dogs or cats, is to do rosemary water.. Put dried or fresh rosemary in 1 liter of boild water. Let sit until cooled off. Strain & pour in spray bottle.. Spray every day, before go out.. 👍 In case got tick, take alcohol, kind that is used for hands, & apply a lot on the tic.. It will die quickly & will be easy to remove even with fingers. Get colloidal silver, & drink (1 cap in 1 litre of preferable drink, as water, juice, etc). Cs kills bacteria & virus. That way You'll get protected from lyme disease. Blessings 🙏🕊️🌟
My favorite method of asphyxiation is to use road side signal flares. I do this during times the soil is moist. Find 2-3 rat holes in the nest, and start each flare, then stick each flare down in one of the holes. This is very successful at killing the whole rat colony. I use plaster and baking soda baits, and a live trap that comes with a fitted tub, which can be used to drown the rats. Another alternative if you have one in the area, is a terrier club. The club is where terrier owners get together with their dogs, and go to farms needing rat control. The terriers are very effective at killing rats.
The flare is an interesting on, probably does the same thing as the torch. I have had one terrier on the site to help with a nest, and it made a lot of mess, and ended up chasing the rats through the gardens and damaging a vegetables. I won’t be doing that again, at least not with my current setup. Go larger farms with lots of space around, a pack of dogs like that would work well. I find it a lot easier to simply asphyxiate the nests, without any mess to clean up, and I don’t have to organise anything with anyone else.
I appreciate your concern for their potential suffering. I've spent 25+ years rescuing domestic pet rats and agree that they are social and intelligent creatures but I also draw firm distinctions along the spectrum of wild to domestic pet. I recently moved to a new area and I know we have voles, mice, rabbits, and deer at the very least. I would not be surprised if there are also rats. I am grateful to find such a thoughtful video on ways to handle wild rat issues. I'm definitely not looking forward to possibly having to deal with this but I'm glad to see you've tried many options - most of which wouldn't really work for me for the same reasons they don't seem to work for you: suffering and collateral damage.
Thank you for that reassuring comment. I am always a bit nervous talking about these issues, partially because I also really like rats - a few people close to me have pet rats that I like spending time with. So it is good to know that other people appreciate the challenge this brings to dealing with wild rats. My own journey involved me deciding that if I was going to be killing them, I should not shy away from the potential brutality of it, to avoid developing a detachment from what was really happening. That was an 'interesting' phase to go through, and I am glad I no longer have the direct connection. Seeing very young rats running around outside the nest after the adults were killed, really cemented the idea for me that it was better to kill the full nest, even if some of the adults did escape.
Wild rats give me the heebejeebies. No problem with spiders. I have a Chihuahua now in my suburban home. He's the best method I've found against them. Only desperate babies have attempted to take up residence. I found a burrow at the far end of my garden and am aware of several hedgehogs in and around my garden. Seeing the skin of a slug by the entrance convinced me that the burrow belongs to a Hog. Seeing the nibbled food in this video reassures me the rats have good alternative options in the area. Asphyxiation is a good method. Using CO2 would cause them to fall asleep before even a headache sets in and they simply wouldn't wake up. On the same level as taking a dying pet to the vet. It also means you only have to dispose of dead bodies. I already have a weed wand. Should it be necessary, I know what to do now.
That cat just eating next to the rat at the end had me cracking up. I have a couple of cats like that. You really have to get pure barn cats if you want them to be hunters in this context. We adopted two kittens from a barn cat mama and they are the best hunters I've ever seen. Nothing gets away from them. The other ones that came from the shelter, they can't be bothered. It's a toy to them, not food.
I have noticed in the previous rat videos, the very same cat was also pictured on camera with rats. I am not saying they are working together, but i am interested in the ongoing saga between the kitty and the rat population at RedGardens. Cheers. 😉
An affective method used in rural and urban areas are putting up owl posts for them to sit and watch for any prey, so just a fence post for them to perch on.
This is the only video I've found offering a method that makes sense for my area. Most of the garden channels I follow either don't address rats at all or give really bad advice on this one topic. Thanks!
Nice to see a fact based video about this topic. Our normal rat population is 0 despite the fact that I can see fields in every direction. Because after rule 2a do not attract them with food you forgot to mention rule 2b: do not attract them with space to live (the advice to wrap nets and tarps around slats and boards to store them under tension and un-cushy, remember?) To catch rodents my tool of choice is a frankfurter style shovel. the needed amount of "cruelness" comes easy after bed after bed has been eaten empty. rat? dang! vole? dang! mole? not dang. We live inside a village and we only had rats a handful of times in my 51 years. Most times the reason was inappropriate animal food storage (at our chickens malfuntioning food dispenser, at the neighbor's rabbits, at the other neighbor's pigeon stables). It is very important to talk to the neighbors, just to recognize the source of the problem. The neighbor with the pigeons was 80+ lived frugal and had second hand plastic buckets from milking machine washing powder as grain containers. Problem 1: cracks which have been widened by the rats, problem 2: he was too weak to pull of the lid if closed properly, so the lid only was laying on top. Solution: we bought him stackable metal hobbocks cheaply from ebay, cleaned the grain and moved it to the new containers. And we did a group action to lift the pigeon stable to empty the nests below it. four people, two dogs, many spectators :) The hobbocks were cheaper than 2-3 bottles of those blue rat poison sachets would have been. so my advice is: depending on the size of your ground you do not have the problem alone, work with the neighbors, and help them. also some things can be really cheap: perchs attached to the roof rafters at the gable cost almost nothing. and they are empty most of the times. but in the morning hours there is a falcon having his break there and if he only gets one mouse or baby rat snack every week it is worth it.
Not giving them a place to live in is good advice, and I could be a lot better at that. Or at least restricting access to areas I don't want them to nest, so that the only accessible nesting place is the compost pile. I would love to attract more of the birds to help with the job, but I garden beside a huge colony of rooks and jackdaws the chase any hawk or buzzard away! I tick this is one of the reasons there has been spot many rats in this area, as there are rarely predators in the sky. I can see the birds hunt 200m away, but not in this area.
This is the best advise on eliminating rats. I got rid of my backyard rats with the torch. Used dry ice and never worked ， at $3 a pound, it simply costed too much to get enough. Probably just spent total $3 on the propane used if not less. But this torch is very powerful, and may ignite things nearby so use with caution. In addition, it took me a while to get the ignition, by that time, the rat hole was filled with propane, and a loud explosion can be heard and slightly shook the ground. Be extremely careful.
The fact you have cared enough to try to make it as ethical as you can is more than most people do. You will probably get the extreme side who think you should not kill/maintain any of them but I think your conscious should be clear. Good video.
Thanks for the comment. I guess I am trying to bring people along who might be very opposed to killing. And also it is part of a natural refinement, to continue to improve. Although I am reasonably content with killing the rats, and had found an effective way to do it, it can still be improved.
We have a feral cat colony in our community garden. Not very many of them actually kill rats, but their presence and smell keeps them away (mostly). I always say the cats are part of the compost system. But occasionally when we have a thick pocket of dry materials in the bottom of the compost bin, a rat will nest in there. A good soaking of the area with water laced with a lot of mint essential oils usually gets them out.
@@REDGardens Working cats works for us in our NYC community garden (other NYC gardens have given up composting because of rats) the rats have plenty of other places to go. The feral cats are here anyhow, we TNR all those that wander into the garden and provide them with shelters and food. I can see how its not going to work for your situation.
@@kittencollective Cats in an urban community garden make so much sense, especially as they can offer an added bonus for people who go to the gardens! Now I am thinking how lovely it would be to have a feline companion up in the gardens! 😀 But I guess I will have to be content with the robins.
The greenhouse allotment I garden at had a severe rat/mice problem the past couple of years, I was using mouse traps at first but found the large rats would set them off but avoid being caught. they also caught several birds which was unfortunate, so we ended up getting a few semi feral cats which has been very productive so far
I found using the baking soda mix was very effective for my farm. I posted a couple videos on it. The key though is to remove as much food source as possible so they are more apt to eat the mix. I eliminated the majority of my rats with the mix and use the ratinator to maintain low numbers.
Thank you for document such a wonderful approach! Recognising that wanting to eliminate one's own suffering does not require enforcing that suffering onto another being, is something I think people often miss. I've said this before, but honestly, your videos are such a tremendous resource to Irish gardening and sustainability. There's nothing else like it.
At last, a calmly expressed, well-evidenced video about this problem. Rats are worthy opponents - in our case they have done thousands of pounds worth of damage. I'll adapt your suggestions to our context. Thanks.
I am a 75 year old organic gardener . Yes rats and mice are an ongoing problem and somee of the experience is the same as yours . I like your real life account of the rat problem ❤ this year all the gooseberries and red currants were taken by mice . And all that after spending time and money on bird netting . Good luck from Ireland 😂
There are two approaches to using cats. One says to keep them hungry other that a well fed cat will have more energy to hunt. We had a huge rat problem and got one small cat. She is very well fed the garden area is large with lots of burrows for them she managed to control the population within a few months and it has been down every since now going on two years.
So a bunch of researchers did a study against chickens dogs and cats and discovered the chickens are actually the best hunters and they're the best to keep around your garden to keep other Critters out but you do have to keep them away from your vegetables cuz they will tear things up
Your A24 automatic trap should be more effective if it isn't around food sources. Place it along a known travel route, instead. Snap-traps are far more effective when they're housed inside tunnels/trap boxes. Rats can only face traps head-on this way, which eliminates the problem that a lot of snap-traps have, which is the ability of rats to eat or steal bait from the sides, where it's usually easier. Rats are killed humanely at the front of traps, because that's where the maximum amount of force is delivered. Inside tunnels, injured rats can't drag traps away, and scavengers can't drag traps away with rats in them. Using good traps is important, of course. T-Rex/Tomcat traps are really good, as are the metallic traps made by Made2Catch. In an area where they have access to an abundance of vegetables, using flesh and/or fat baits should be the most effective.
Forty six years of living in a house in the city and for the first time my metal shed has big droppings that is not mice poop. They say it’s from redevelopment. Houses and factories being torn down and the rats are looking for new abodes. I’m trying the baking soda, flour and sugar method but where will they go to die? I’ve yet to clear out the shed to see what damage they’ve done.
Nicely done video for a subject that is indeed very sensitive to some. Although in my experience, having your crops decimated by "pests" wakes up the "survivalist/hunter" even in the more "sensitive type" of human beings.
Having pests damage the crops definitely changes things for a lot of people. It changed me quite a bit, and I have also seen that transition the transition you mention with people who have worked with me. As is often the case, opinions often change when they meet with the realities of the world of growing/gardening.
I have a great mouser… 14 y.o. Domestic short hair black cat… I live in a farm house and the farmer ( who keeps chickens for egg production) is grateful for her abilities😬. Really thoughtful discussion about challenges… if only politicians and ‘activists’ would follow the same rational thought processes rather than trying to shout down alternate opinion…😢
I think if I had a recurring issue to deal with I would keep ferrets and terriers. If you keep the ferrets at the allotment and clean the cage out into the compose heaps, or even scatter it in the hedge rows then the scent would act as deterrent.
I have heard other people have had good success with dogs, but I haven't talked to anyone who has actually used ferrets. That tends to be an animal service you hire in.
Yup ferrets are great for pest control my house had a mice problem, my wife loved ferrets so we got a de scented one… I don’t want to know what a fully scented ferret smells like lol. But yeah I let it go in the house it was gone for an entire day and I found dead mice everywhere. So after a good clean up the house is mouse free. Now if only I could bring it to the garage lol but it would escape and never come back I bet
When I kept ferrets I left one to roam around part of someones house that rats were running around in thinking if it didn't catch any the scent would deter them. Didn't work. Same with a wood pile at anothers place.
I would see if anyone has any jack russell terriers in yourcarea.. they dig holes really well and are built for ratting and going down small burrows... it's what they're bred for....
I have worked with a Jack Russel once (which I didn't mention it in the video), and the dog caused a real mess of the area, damaged a bunch of plants in the gardens when chasing a rat, and even missed a few rats. I won't be doing that again! 🙂 I find asphyxiating the nests a hell of a lot easier, and less messy, and I don't need to organise anything with anyone else.
I don't fancy a dog digging up my veg plot or hurtling around near my hens... unless they'd grown up happily together. I have thought of it though... I'd be concerned for the dog on my plot too, it's a danger zone! I'd love a rough-coated Jack Russell for non-rat related reasons.
I discovered your RUclips channel today, and I've watched half-a-dozen. I'm in California, and I haven't had problems with rats in my garden as of yet, but I just recently started to have problems with gophers, even in my 18" high raised beds. Thirty plus years of gardening, and this is the first time gophers have invaded. I know what I have to do! I will be deterring them by removing the soil from the raised bed, lining the bottom with hardware cloth, and then returning the soil to the boxes. I've been very impressed with your experiments and reporting. All of your posts have been very thoughtful. I'm looking forward to watching more.
Thanks for such a very informative and well presented video about a problem most of us will share. You explain all the alternatives very well indeed and the pictures are amazing! I am confused about where you are situated. Your accent does not sound 'British English' - especially the word 'compost'. But the local countryside, the familiar weeds around, and the fox all suggest the UK. I have found raised rotary composting to be the most effective in preventing rat occupation, and also asist the fastest degradation. I also grow carrots and beetroot in deep containers on inverted metal school tables suspended from the roof of the polytunnel. But they do have to be quite high as these beasts are surprisingly clever at getting to where there is a good smell of a tasty food source!
Thanks! I am based in Ireland, and have lived here for a few decades, but grew up in Canada, so a mixed accent. Interesting ideas for preventing rat damage.
Great presentation. I've watched tons of videos trying to deal with norway rats recently invading my town in Idaho (brought in my shipping containers from California). I have a crazy idea. Cover the nesting area with hardware cloth and using electrified fence wire to repel them. Also wiring up all around my deck and veg garden. I've tried just about everything else.
Does laying down a few pipes under the compost pile give them set entryways. Make asphyxiating them a quicker task. Let them repopulate the maze and hit em again.
Very good stuff, Bruce. The criticism is often based on POV's from other scenarios. They are indeed not specifically attracted to certain things. I agree with tolerate, but it's important in my environment to consider what their population would have been if we were not here (as humans). Dog food, feed, compost, bbq's, chickens, rabbits... we give them an opportunity to quickly increase way beyond what would be a natural population in the area. This is where we have a responsibility to control their numbers respectfully, for their own good, ours and other animals. On the manner of dispatch, I agree that humane/instant termination is the way to go.
You can combine baking soda and vinegar, the chemical reaction creates a gas called carbon dioxide. Put some plastic bottles into the holes thus letting the gas escape into the nests.
Excellent video. I don't have the ability to attract rats to a compost pile and most of them live in neighbor's houses anyways. So I mounted a thermal gun site to my pellet gun! I have found the Sig Sauer MPX offers repeated shots without reloading (30) or cocking. One night about every other month or two I clean up all the rats I can find outside. When I first started doing this I would kill around 20. Now it is down to 3-4.
Rats dont like scaffold netting so i stuff used damaged net into holes blocking them in or out. Continually destroying their homes helps them to look elsewhere
I am glad to see you taking on this controversial topic. I am wandering if in further development of your methods the following options could be investigated? Could natural deterents work as an additional method. I am thinking of perennial onions or other smells that could discourage them. Maybe animal smells like dog excrement or synthetic pig hormones could be used as well. Secondly I am wondering if designated fox borrowing areas could be useful. I imagine a designated zone that is fenced off, where shrubs and trees grow completely undisturbed. Finally I am wondering if gasses could be sourced elsewhere. I live in the city near the highest point of the area. I speculate methane could be harvested here because it's lighter than air. In the lower areas of the city sewers probably contain more hydrogen sulfide. I think we produce a lot of toxic gas that can be used one way or another. I am always very hesitant about the use of rare gases like argon. I am super impressed by the methods you put in place. Directing the rats to designated locations is very impressive. Thank you for your many years of shared experience on this channel!
I have heard that people can have success with natural deterrents to keep the rats out of particular areas. I am not sure it if would work with trying to keep them away from a food source, but it would be an interesting thing to explore. I think one of the issues with foxes, and other predators, is that the rat population level that would be needed to keep a fox happy enough to stay in the area, is likely higher than what us humans would find acceptable. on our site, there are loads of places for a fox to make a den, and quite safe and reasonably secluded, but I am not sure why they have not moved in when we had loads of rats around.
Unfortunately, rat bait poisons, disables, and kills the animals who eat rats too, like foxes and owls. I think your attract and asphyxiate method is admirable, in situations where the rats need to be controlled.
I built several electric traps! I placed several metal poles in the ground where the rats had their borrows! When it rained or I use the hose to soak the area, then I crank up the power through step-up transformers! A couple of discharges and everything is dead,
I have rats here because neighbours keep putting scraps into bins that aren't covered. I bought a large bag of ground hot chili peppers, used it around the commonly traveled areas of the rats. Squirrels, rats and even raccoons are rodents, they are averse to anything with "hot, spicy" so it deters the rats from nesting because they bring back the hot chili powder to their nests. Unfortunately I still have to use traps, but much stronger ones than shown. It's a simple set trap that's black, can actuate with a pad and definitely is quick kill. I also put hardware cloth along any ramps where the rats can hide/travel.
I deal with rats in my garden. 1 Cage traps 2. snap traps 3. A trail cam to monitor activity to know when I have a problem, and to know when things are under control. If I see Rat activity on the cam I get aggressive.. More traps and checked daily, no rats.... Less traps and checked every 3 days.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but CO² buildup causes considerable stress in all respiratory animals, because CO² detection is a primary function necessary for survival. In cases of suffocation or asphyxiation, it's not the lack of oxygen that is sensed, it's the buildup of CO². Nitrogen is inert, undetectable, and would cause asphyxiation without the animals even being aware that it's happening. I assume that argon would work in a similar fashion. Nitrogen makes up 78% of our air, so it makes sense that 100% feels no different. Argon is the 3rd most common gas, but it's less than 1% of the air. Either way, if you are concerned with humane extermination, don't use CO². It's essentially the difference between getting drowsy and taking a nap, or being smothered by a pillow. Also, a little nitrogen in the soil is never a bad thing.
Yeah, if I had an easy supply I would probably use nitrogen. But, personally, I am not concerned enough about the suffering to go too much out of my way or spend too much money to get the Nitrogen. But a very useful option for others who are more concerned and have easier access to supplies.
Last years I had mice or rats even climb tomato plants and take a bite of **every** tomato. If they had stolen just one or two I wouldn't mind, but each one and pooping on the others is a bit much. I haven't found the perfect method for my situation yet, I just have a few square meters garden at the house, but thank you for the thoughtful overview and inspiration on this topic. I really appreciate you're trying to find the best solution to a problem without introducing lots of follow up issues (like you do in all your videos). Also, at least I can't think of a way to approach this topic in a more sensible way in a RUclips video, very well done.
That is tough! I have seen that happen in our gardens, with the rats nibbling lots of the fruit, not just one. I thought they were sampling them, looking for a good one! Thanks for the supportive comment. Talking about this issue is a bit tough, as I don't know how people will react.
I had rats almost completely kill some plants we grow for our business and have found deterring them from coming into the shade tunnel works better than trapping or poisoning. We've had a massive rat plague in Australia for the last few years, predators are only just starting to catch up to the population change. The neighbours have outside cats but that hasn't really slowed the rats at all. I have several inside cats who use bentonite clay litter trays which I put in little piles around the shade house near the rat holes and they haven't been back since. If they think a cat is passing by they might just come in and out but if they think the cats live in the shade house from the smell of the urine filled clay they don't come back at all. We are thinking of using big wheeled bins for composting food from now on to reduce the amount of food they can get from us, but I have not tried the clay on the vegie patch yet because it might contaminate things. I might try keeping it in a pot instead of piling it up loose.
Ooh, that's a good idea! My cat usually goes outside but if I keep him in overnight he'll sometimes pee in the box. Or I could go over to the neighbor's and confirm her suspicion that I'm crazy by asking her if I can have some of her cat's used litter.
Me and a friend go around farms and use a liquid bait chocolate spread and cooking oil mix so the rats have to stop and feed we dispatch them with air rifles using hollow point pellets you cant kill all of them but we keep numbers down.
Build a rat heaven, compost / nesting /feeding, bin from scrap plywood with one or two entrances/exits that can be closed off. Periodically, in line with rat gestation period cover and seal off and gas them. You could run a pipe from a gallon can containing some crushed coal which you could heat with your torch and they would just go to sleep permanently. Repeat at appropriately times Just a thought, Love your channel, and looking forward to your growing year.
I find it odd that the comments recommend dogs, cats, sealed compost bins etc when Bruce clearly explains in the video his reasons for not choosing these options.
I do agree with your points about that rats are both intelligent and well adapted creatures. I like nature, but this animal isn't belonging endemically in many countries. I don't know what other animals it may have replaced, do you know?
My neighbour has just landscaped his garden with a mini digger and I now have a rodent infestation. His garden had old mole tunnels, have the rats come from there do you think? Thanks.
At some point you say: there aren't enough predators around. The problem is likely that to sustain one predator it takes a stable population of many more preys. So even if there were enough predators, you'd still have more rats than you'd be comfortable with!
That is a very important point! So much is about tolerance. I find the same with hedgehogs and slugs. It takes a lot of slugs to keep a hedgehog in the area, more slugs than I am willing to have in the gardens.
Nitrogen gas, instead of CO2, may be an option. One of the issues with CO2 asphyxiation is that it likely triggers some amount of suffering in the animals, as accumulation of CO2 in blood is a powerful stimulus for sensation of choking in humans. Nitrogen (N2) doesn't cause that issue but can still cause asphyxiation, and it is probably much cheaper and accessible than argon.
Glad to see someone brought this up. High CO2 signals the body to breathe, causing panic. Low O2 does not. Dying from inert nitrogen gas is peaceful, and is used in medically assisted suicide and humane bird slaughter.
Do you just give baking soda or is it a mixture? Please give more details on the mix. I've also heard of boric acid powder being used, but on the other hand they say it is too small qty to kill
I mixed baking soda with sugar and flour, but I can't remember the specific recipe (available with a quick google). Apparently the baking soda reacts with the stomach acid and causes them to bloat which kills them. Not sure how well it works, but it definitely leads to a fair amount of suffering, which is why I don't use it much any more.
Pardon my ignorance but if you have a rat hole on the outside of your house and you seal it off, aren't you effectively locking the rats in and their only escape then is to burrow even further into your house?
With your flame torch, is there concern for unburnt chemicals being deposited into the compost? I heard this was a problem for farms near very busy highways bac in the day (that could also be an old wives' tale).
I think that propane is a fairly clean burning fuel, but there could be some potentially harmful unburnt residues, or smoke from the material in the hole that was burning. I don't know what effect this would have, if any on the compost, but I suspect it would be minor. The issue with farms near roadways is (or was) mainly based off of leaded fuel, and other impurities in the oil, and breakdown of rubber tires.
I was thinking that too, but a shallow dive suggests that even though propane may have contaminants of methane, butane, propylene (another 3 carbon molecule) etc, the combustion of all of these consists of CO2, CO, H2O, elemental carbon - so I think it's not a significant concern.
I have seen videos from the USA where a guy has about 6 ratter dogs and in a few hours they killed over 100 if not more. Hardly a rat escaped instant death once they were disturbed and ran out. The dogs were so fast catching them. If one missed another dog got it. There could be a business for an owner of trained ratter dogs.
The best way to deal with them with out the torch/ weed burner is.. use the motor of an old petrol strimmer. Fit a length of copper pipe from the exhaust, long enough so the end stays cold when you run it. To this fit a length of hose and then slide that in the hole. Run it a little more rich than normal so it smokes good.
Very Informative, thank you. In my small garden i tolerate them 🙂 my compost is in bins but since i have backyard chickens....i put away all feed containers at night but feed that falls to the ground and doesnt get eaten up is impossible to clean up. Its all the burrows that are a worry, sometimes the tunnels collapse and leave large holes all over the place. Am thinking of what to do about that, for now i just refill them.
Sorry for the long comment but I need help with my recently rat infested backyard! Until last year I had a gardener turn my compost over twice a year plus we used to be visited by occasional rat snakes and I didn't have any problem. Then my new next door neighbor placed his grain mill on his porch and that attracted rats which are now living in my compost pile and tunneling into my raised beds :( He's been keeping poison outside and the dying rats came over into my yard which I'm not happy about. And we've also got a new family of wild mongoose in the area which are keeping out the snakes! The stray cats moving around our row of backyards don't seem to be up for the job but my little dog is interested, though I try to keep her away because I don't want her to get sick or anything. We will soon be going into the rainy season when my yard gets flooded and any rat waste will definitely move around. I'll soon be hiring someone to clean up the backyard (and prep for the rains) and build a sturdy compost bin, but my main question is this: 1) is it safe to use the compost for my food plants, considering rats may have laid eggs in it? I used to think the rat snakes who visited about 2/3 times a year were a danger although we simply had to call a local snake catcher who would let them off far away, but now realize how they balanced the ecosystem!
We normally set traps for voles in the sweet potato bed. But last year we had rats for the first time. We trapped way more rats than voles. We are in an allotment also. We trapped over 35 rats, mostly young ones. I bought adult rat sized traps for this year. We did catch one house sparrow in a trap. But they are also a pest in the garden, they love pea sprouts and peck at the tomatoes for water. We take all the dead rodents and feed them to the burying beetles that live at the edge or our garden area. Natural predators are foxes, Kestrels, and Red Tailed Hawks. I am thinking of getting a rat terrier dog, as I grew up with one who was a great killer of rats and mice on the farm.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Right now we are dealing with a rat in the house. While I hate killing any animal (except roaches), I cannot tolerate it in my house.
@@REDGardens Just yesterday we finally were able to get rid of the rat. We bought a trap that uses electric shock. It killed the rat within seconds. So we can finally breath tonight. It was expensive, but worth it.
You could try attracting more owls to help deal with the rats by building nests for them. If you have a few roosts directly in the property then not only would they kill the rats, but rats would quickly learn to keep their distance from the property due to the presence of the owls. You may also attract more foxes to the area by having some bushes and other loose shrubbery that the foxes can use for cover while moving or potentially build their dens inside of.
We have been suffering badly from rats in recent years. The biggest problem is sweetcorn. A couple of years ago I counted eight on my sweetcorn. So not very much left for me to eat. They also dig large burrows which can be a pain since it brings up the stoney subsoil. The cold winter seems to have had a good effect and I have seen no rats since the cold snap. I have dalek compost bins with manure in them and they had been making nests on the top under the lid, and I think they like the heat from the compost. I have been finding cat pee quite effective at deterring them. My daughter uses a corn based cat litter which clumps up so you just remove the balls of pee which she saves for me. They are permanently inside so less likely to carry any diseases or infections. I tried poison but they seem immune because they kept eating it and there seemed to be no sign of less rat activity. I tried plaster of paris with dried chicken soup, but rather concerned about what happened to the rats. Seems you also need to supply water at the same time.
That is tough, having rats eat your corn! I definitely want to stop that from happening as we are doing some corn trials this year. Interesting about the cat urine.
@@REDGardens I have taken to putting a plastic bottle over each cob of corn. Need to ensure that the rain drains out of it. The rats learned to push the bottle up so need to wedge them very securely. A bit laborious but I use the same bottle in the spring to keep the plants warm.
Good vlog I’m thinking about moving to a property that was once a rendering plant where I know there’s a big rat population Sounds great right 😊 Thinking about starting a cat refuge or maybe Jack Russell’s to keep them at bay
i wonder, do you just put the rats back in the compost pile to add to said composts nutrients? i wonder if doing so would introduce disease perhaps? how do you deal with the waste bodies?
I think I've tried all the methods you've mentioned over ~20yrs, my chicken coop is now pretty much armour plated with strips of tin cut from white goods, my river valley brownfield site was backfilled 1M deep with builders rubble/clay topped with river dredged silt, up to a hedgeline, the borrows are into this through the hedge so accessing the burrows is problematic. I this this has been my most successful year, using a combination of bakingsoda mixed with peanut butter 50/50 (microwaving the peanut butter makes mixing much easier) and the 5 gal bucket beer can water trap using peanut butter as bait, I've had 4 populations in the last ~12 months move in, all delt with within 2 weeks using these methods, but I did loose all my overwintering carrots, and two buckets of saved seed potatoes this winter. I've only gone though 3 jars of peanut butter and 3 pots of baking soda in that time, bait placed next to the coop, next to the chicken feed bins, and next to compost piles, with one water trap next to the feed bins. Argon is very expensive I just changed my welding gas bottle from hobby weld (trommel is almost built!) £92 plus £110 deposit, most other suppliers require a hire agreement with a monthly hire charge!!
@@tinnerste2507 I don't put it in with the chickens, I have a lean to covered wood store backing onto my coop so I put a dish in there, I'm sure they would eat it if they had access not sure weather it would effect them, I wouldn't risk it just in case, a simple bait box mite be an answer if you have to put it inside the run/coop
@@glassbackdiy3949 cheers for the reply. I was also concerned that the chickens would eat the mice as they are dying too. outside the chicken stall I have a cat. They like to winter in the stall bedding and eat the food throughout the day. Il try putting some in the middle of an old stovepipe
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Honestly, I think the fire torch is the most elegant solution. I’d say to keep up with it for every 2 weeks because that’s when the newborns begin to open their eyes and walk. Sure, animal suffering sucks but diseases and crop damage are no joke
I try to check at least every two weeks, as you say. To be able to kill the young in the nests before they start to walk. I think this has been the most effective part of the method, to kill the next generation. With the traps, and predators that kill some of the adults, the young might still be raised by others in the colony, and then end up as adults that need to be killed. Even if a few adults escape every time I asphyxiate a nest, at least I have stopped that generation from appearing. I don't like the idea of killing the babies, but it is better than having them starve or struggle, and a lot better than the damage that they can do.
Thanks for your honest and considered communication and approach on this sensitive subject.
🙂
My cat watched your video with great interest! Shame age has reduced her hunting abilities, but she'd like more films with rats. :)
Haha! An unexpected audience!
Love this reply!! 👍
My neighbor has a rat terrier. Has caught 12 rats in one day. Specialized rat hunting dog has made a huge difference in our neighborhood. The feral cats get a few, but mostly the dog keeps them under control. The rats are very smart and it is hard to trap them. Chickens and the feed that go with them is the main source of rats in our town.
Jack Russell's are great for killing rats, as are most terriers. A cat may kill the rat which piques its interest, or for food if feral. But those dogs are hardwired to do this job. I used to go ratting round farms, and factories with my father, and our Jack Russell's as a kid. Even the scent of a rat, or burrow will get those dogs hyped up.
We even had a few who would go off hunting on their own, then sit at our backdoor with a few mice or rats laid out waiting on my father. Chest pushed out and all proud of themselves. Basically showing off what they had killed the night before. One bitch would even defend them if anybody apart from my father tried to depose of them. She was leaving them for him to see. Oh, and get praised for it.
Yeah, terriers can be great hunters, and in some contexts they can be a really effective way to rapidly reduce the rat population. What often seems to happen is the rat population builds up to a really problematic level, and then a bunch of terriers are brought in to kill as many as possible at one time. Cats seem to be better at the gradual, continual process of keeping the population low. I have shifted to the method of tying to never let the population of rats to get too established. I had a bad experience when my neighbour brought their terrier up for a hunt, and it ended up making a real mess of things, and damaging plants in the gardens while chasing down rats. To me it seems a lot easier, less mess, and just as effective to asphyxiate the nests.
I agree I think a ratting terrier is almost the kindest and quickest way to get rid of rats. If you have someone in your area who has such a dog. We have to give up the poison, it kills owls and all sorts of other animals.
After I try nearly 99% of products/methods on the market, I design one of the best traps in the world. HOPE MY R&D WORKS HELP U save tons of $ NOT trust+buy other failed products, thank me later, or get notified to buy the best one:) ruclips.net/video/sLDrfhwTU6E/видео.html Show u why 99% of all traps fail including A24 b/c they have EYES ABLE TO SEE LOW-TECH PIN/NEEDLE TRIGGER MECHANISM-they're too smart, DO NOT EVEN EAT FOODS on PLASTIC BASE/PAPER LOL: ruclips.net/video/V4pTSFSNiHg/видео.html bonus: 1) ruclips.net/video/Ku3VJS3VIMU/видео.html 2) ruclips.net/video/YIvmmvJAbTc/видео.html 3) ruclips.net/video/jWqLYU9__UU/видео.html 4) ruclips.net/video/R4QIoven16E/видео.html NOTICE one day 1 trap can kill 8, it all depends on how often u reset the trap (remove dead body + reset in secs) & how often they come in and take food from the trap: 5) ruclips.net/video/pN30WkG1_9o/видео.html
I just tossed a wounded rat into the chicken pen for a few days in a row.
Most ticks are from mice and rats, not deer as most think. I have no problem with eradicating them. Lyme disease is no joke.
I didn't know that.
Chickens eat ticks too. Certain species of lizards help kill Lyme disease in ticks when the ticks feed on the lizard's blood.
Ticks are everywhere were animals go.. 🤷♀️ Even cats & dogs have them.. There are tablets for the dogs that will eliminate ticks for about 3 months... Best natural prevent for one self, dogs or cats, is to do rosemary water.. Put dried or fresh rosemary in 1 liter of boild water. Let sit until cooled off. Strain & pour in spray bottle.. Spray every day, before go out.. 👍 In case got tick, take alcohol, kind that is used for hands, & apply a lot on the tic.. It will die quickly & will be easy to remove even with fingers. Get colloidal silver, & drink (1 cap in 1 litre of preferable drink, as water, juice, etc). Cs kills bacteria & virus. That way You'll get protected from lyme disease. Blessings 🙏🕊️🌟
Lyme disease is too large of an issue here in North Carolina to allow rats to be part of our ecosystem.
Lyme disease: another bioweapon which got loose. Plum island, where it all began.
A fascinating episode, the progression of methods is a sight to behold, well done.
Glad you appreciated it.
My favorite method of asphyxiation is to use road side signal flares. I do this during times the soil is moist. Find 2-3 rat holes in the nest, and start each flare, then stick each flare down in one of the holes. This is very successful at killing the whole rat colony.
I use plaster and baking soda baits, and a live trap that comes with a fitted tub, which can be used to drown the rats.
Another alternative if you have one in the area, is a terrier club. The club is where terrier owners get together with their dogs, and go to farms needing rat control. The terriers are very effective at killing rats.
The flare is an interesting on, probably does the same thing as the torch.
I have had one terrier on the site to help with a nest, and it made a lot of mess, and ended up chasing the rats through the gardens and damaging a vegetables. I won’t be doing that again, at least not with my current setup. Go larger farms with lots of space around, a pack of dogs like that would work well. I find it a lot easier to simply asphyxiate the nests, without any mess to clean up, and I don’t have to organise anything with anyone else.
I appreciate your concern for their potential suffering. I've spent 25+ years rescuing domestic pet rats and agree that they are social and intelligent creatures but I also draw firm distinctions along the spectrum of wild to domestic pet. I recently moved to a new area and I know we have voles, mice, rabbits, and deer at the very least. I would not be surprised if there are also rats. I am grateful to find such a thoughtful video on ways to handle wild rat issues. I'm definitely not looking forward to possibly having to deal with this but I'm glad to see you've tried many options - most of which wouldn't really work for me for the same reasons they don't seem to work for you: suffering and collateral damage.
Thank you for that reassuring comment. I am always a bit nervous talking about these issues, partially because I also really like rats - a few people close to me have pet rats that I like spending time with. So it is good to know that other people appreciate the challenge this brings to dealing with wild rats. My own journey involved me deciding that if I was going to be killing them, I should not shy away from the potential brutality of it, to avoid developing a detachment from what was really happening. That was an 'interesting' phase to go through, and I am glad I no longer have the direct connection. Seeing very young rats running around outside the nest after the adults were killed, really cemented the idea for me that it was better to kill the full nest, even if some of the adults did escape.
Wild rats give me the heebejeebies. No problem with spiders. I have a Chihuahua now in my suburban home. He's the best method I've found against them. Only desperate babies have attempted to take up residence.
I found a burrow at the far end of my garden and am aware of several hedgehogs in and around my garden. Seeing the skin of a slug by the entrance convinced me that the burrow belongs to a Hog. Seeing the nibbled food in this video reassures me the rats have good alternative options in the area.
Asphyxiation is a good method. Using CO2 would cause them to fall asleep before even a headache sets in and they simply wouldn't wake up. On the same level as taking a dying pet to the vet. It also means you only have to dispose of dead bodies. I already have a weed wand. Should it be necessary, I know what to do now.
As another pet rat lover, I too appreciate the considerations and kindness involved in this video.
I feel truly sorry for you
OUTSTANDING CONTENT‼️For anyone dealing with rats, you OWE it to yourself to watch this well thought out video❗️
So complete! It was enlightening to see you go through all these methods in an order of effectiveness in some sense. Thanks so much.
That cat just eating next to the rat at the end had me cracking up. I have a couple of cats like that. You really have to get pure barn cats if you want them to be hunters in this context. We adopted two kittens from a barn cat mama and they are the best hunters I've ever seen. Nothing gets away from them. The other ones that came from the shelter, they can't be bothered. It's a toy to them, not food.
Yeah, I have noticed that cats raised in a barn seem to be the best hunters.
I have noticed in the previous rat videos, the very same cat was also pictured on camera with rats.
I am not saying they are working together, but i am interested in the ongoing saga between the kitty and the rat population at RedGardens. Cheers. 😉
An affective method used in rural and urban areas are putting up owl posts for them to sit and watch for any prey, so just a fence post for them to perch on.
We have a few of those, but I don't know how many owls actually visit.
This is the only video I've found offering a method that makes sense for my area. Most of the garden channels I follow either don't address rats at all or give really bad advice on this one topic. Thanks!
The Gas flamer seems to be the best option.
The borax/flour or plaster not a bad supplementary action.
I think a combination of the two would work well.
Nice to see a fact based video about this topic.
Our normal rat population is 0 despite the fact that I can see fields in every direction.
Because after rule 2a do not attract them with food
you forgot to mention rule 2b: do not attract them with space to live (the advice to wrap nets and tarps around slats and boards to store them under tension and un-cushy, remember?)
To catch rodents my tool of choice is a frankfurter style shovel. the needed amount of "cruelness" comes easy after bed after bed has been eaten empty. rat? dang! vole? dang! mole? not dang.
We live inside a village and we only had rats a handful of times in my 51 years.
Most times the reason was inappropriate animal food storage (at our chickens malfuntioning food dispenser, at the neighbor's rabbits, at the other neighbor's pigeon stables).
It is very important to talk to the neighbors, just to recognize the source of the problem.
The neighbor with the pigeons was 80+ lived frugal and had second hand plastic buckets from milking machine washing powder as grain containers. Problem 1: cracks which have been widened by the rats, problem 2: he was too weak to pull of the lid if closed properly, so the lid only was laying on top.
Solution: we bought him stackable metal hobbocks cheaply from ebay, cleaned the grain and moved it to the new containers. And we did a group action to lift the pigeon stable to empty the nests below it. four people, two dogs, many spectators :)
The hobbocks were cheaper than 2-3 bottles of those blue rat poison sachets would have been.
so my advice is: depending on the size of your ground you do not have the problem alone, work with the neighbors, and help them.
also some things can be really cheap: perchs attached to the roof rafters at the gable cost almost nothing. and they are empty most of the times. but in the morning hours there is a falcon having his break there and if he only gets one mouse or baby rat snack every week it is worth it.
Not giving them a place to live in is good advice, and I could be a lot better at that. Or at least restricting access to areas I don't want them to nest, so that the only accessible nesting place is the compost pile.
I would love to attract more of the birds to help with the job, but I garden beside a huge colony of rooks and jackdaws the chase any hawk or buzzard away! I tick this is one of the reasons there has been spot many rats in this area, as there are rarely predators in the sky. I can see the birds hunt 200m away, but not in this area.
This is the best advise on eliminating rats. I got rid of my backyard rats with the torch. Used dry ice and never worked ， at $3 a pound, it simply costed too much to get enough. Probably just spent total $3 on the propane used if not less. But this torch is very powerful, and may ignite things nearby so use with caution. In addition, it took me a while to get the ignition, by that time, the rat hole was filled with propane, and a loud explosion can be heard and slightly shook the ground. Be extremely careful.
The fact you have cared enough to try to make it as ethical as you can is more than most people do. You will probably get the extreme side who think you should not kill/maintain any of them but I think your conscious should be clear. Good video.
Thanks for the comment. I guess I am trying to bring people along who might be very opposed to killing. And also it is part of a natural refinement, to continue to improve. Although I am reasonably content with killing the rats, and had found an effective way to do it, it can still be improved.
We have a feral cat colony in our community garden. Not very many of them actually kill rats, but their presence and smell keeps them away (mostly). I always say the cats are part of the compost system. But occasionally when we have a thick pocket of dry materials in the bottom of the compost bin, a rat will nest in there. A good soaking of the area with water laced with a lot of mint essential oils usually gets them out.
As Bruce says, cats destroy all other wildlife, so are no kind of answer
Cats are a relatively very easy way to keep rats, and a lot of the other wildlife out of the gardens.
@@REDGardens Working cats works for us in our NYC community garden (other NYC gardens have given up composting because of rats) the rats have plenty of other places to go. The feral cats are here anyhow, we TNR all those that wander into the garden and provide them with shelters and food. I can see how its not going to work for your situation.
@@kittencollective Cats in an urban community garden make so much sense, especially as they can offer an added bonus for people who go to the gardens! Now I am thinking how lovely it would be to have a feline companion up in the gardens! 😀 But I guess I will have to be content with the robins.
Most aren't very good company. They watch me from afar and look judgemental whenever I talk to them. But a few let me pet them when its feeding time.
The greenhouse allotment I garden at had a severe rat/mice problem the past couple of years, I was using mouse traps at first but found the large rats would set them off but avoid being caught. they also caught several birds which was unfortunate, so we ended up getting a few semi feral cats which has been very productive so far
Semi feral cats seem to be a necessary part of allotment areas, and community gardens.
I found using the baking soda mix was very effective for my farm. I posted a couple videos on it. The key though is to remove as much food source as possible so they are more apt to eat the mix. I eliminated the majority of my rats with the mix and use the ratinator to maintain low numbers.
Thank you for document such a wonderful approach! Recognising that wanting to eliminate one's own suffering does not require enforcing that suffering onto another being, is something I think people often miss.
I've said this before, but honestly, your videos are such a tremendous resource to Irish gardening and sustainability. There's nothing else like it.
Thanks you!
At last, a calmly expressed, well-evidenced video about this problem. Rats are worthy opponents - in our case they have done thousands of pounds worth of damage. I'll adapt your suggestions to our context. Thanks.
Glad you appreciate my video, and hope some of the methods work for you.
Plaster of paris and dry porridge mixed 50/50. They ate it all and now gone.
I am a 75 year old organic gardener . Yes rats and mice are an ongoing problem and somee of the experience is the same as yours . I like your real life account of the rat problem ❤ this year all the gooseberries and red currants were taken by mice . And all that after spending time and money on bird netting . Good luck from Ireland 😂
They can be such a problematic pest!
There are two approaches to using cats. One says to keep them hungry other that a well fed cat will have more energy to hunt. We had a huge rat problem and got one small cat. She is very well fed the garden area is large with lots of burrows for them she managed to control the population within a few months and it has been down every since now going on two years.
Sounds like a good ratter. Interesting point about the two approaches.
So a bunch of researchers did a study against chickens dogs and cats and discovered the chickens are actually the best hunters and they're the best to keep around your garden to keep other Critters out but you do have to keep them away from your vegetables cuz they will tear things up
Your A24 automatic trap should be more effective if it isn't around food sources. Place it along a known travel route, instead.
Snap-traps are far more effective when they're housed inside tunnels/trap boxes. Rats can only face traps head-on this way, which eliminates the problem that a lot of snap-traps have, which is the ability of rats to eat or steal bait from the sides, where it's usually easier. Rats are killed humanely at the front of traps, because that's where the maximum amount of force is delivered. Inside tunnels, injured rats can't drag traps away, and scavengers can't drag traps away with rats in them.
Using good traps is important, of course. T-Rex/Tomcat traps are really good, as are the metallic traps made by Made2Catch. In an area where they have access to an abundance of vegetables, using flesh and/or fat baits should be the most effective.
Forty six years of living in a house in the city and for the first time my metal shed has big droppings that is not mice poop. They say it’s from redevelopment. Houses and factories being torn down and the rats are looking for new abodes. I’m trying the baking soda, flour and sugar method but where will they go to die? I’ve yet to clear out the shed to see what damage they’ve done.
Nicely done video for a subject that is indeed very sensitive to some. Although in my experience, having your crops decimated by "pests" wakes up the "survivalist/hunter" even in the more "sensitive type" of human beings.
Having pests damage the crops definitely changes things for a lot of people. It changed me quite a bit, and I have also seen that transition the transition you mention with people who have worked with me. As is often the case, opinions often change when they meet with the realities of the world of growing/gardening.
@@REDGardens yes. I also changed a lot when we .moved from the city to the countryside (I was 14 at the time,)
Amen brother. I was all peace/love until they decimated all my plants and moved in under the house.
Great advice thanks.
In Australia I have Goanna lizards and the occasional Python snake, that can smell out rat nests.
Predators like that would really help! No snakes in Ireland unfortunately.
Good one! Maybe jam the exhaust pipe from a pump, generator, or mower into the compost heap rat holes?
I have a great mouser… 14 y.o. Domestic short hair black cat… I live in a farm house and the farmer ( who keeps chickens for egg production) is grateful for her abilities😬.
Really thoughtful discussion about challenges… if only politicians and ‘activists’ would follow the same rational thought processes rather than trying to shout down alternate opinion…😢
Great comprehensive video with outstanding explanations and footage! Thank you!
The video was incredibly detailed and explained with genuine honesty 👍
Nice work, brother. Always appreciate your thorough research and patient explanations. Be well
Thanks!
I think if I had a recurring issue to deal with I would keep ferrets and terriers. If you keep the ferrets at the allotment and clean the cage out into the compose heaps, or even scatter it in the hedge rows then the scent would act as deterrent.
I have heard other people have had good success with dogs, but I haven't talked to anyone who has actually used ferrets. That tends to be an animal service you hire in.
@@REDGardens good pets to keep if you do it DIY. No more expensive than keeping a rabbit.
Yup ferrets are great for pest control my house had a mice problem, my wife loved ferrets so we got a de scented one… I don’t want to know what a fully scented ferret smells like lol. But yeah I let it go in the house it was gone for an entire day and I found dead mice everywhere. So after a good clean up the house is mouse free. Now if only I could bring it to the garage lol but it would escape and never come back I bet
When I kept ferrets I left one to roam around part of someones house that rats were running around in thinking if it didn't catch any the scent would deter them. Didn't work. Same with a wood pile at anothers place.
I would see if anyone has any jack russell terriers in yourcarea.. they dig holes really well and are built for ratting and going down small burrows... it's what they're bred for....
I have worked with a Jack Russel once (which I didn't mention it in the video), and the dog caused a real mess of the area, damaged a bunch of plants in the gardens when chasing a rat, and even missed a few rats. I won't be doing that again! 🙂
I find asphyxiating the nests a hell of a lot easier, and less messy, and I don't need to organise anything with anyone else.
I don't fancy a dog digging up my veg plot or hurtling around near my hens... unless they'd grown up happily together. I have thought of it though... I'd be concerned for the dog on my plot too, it's a danger zone!
I'd love a rough-coated Jack Russell for non-rat related reasons.
@@REDGardens mm they can be really difficult. One of ours was quite vicious when in a mood. Guess gassing is quite quick.
@@cew9837 Yeah. If you like having dogs, and have the space for a breed like that, and they can do a bit of rat hunting occasionally, great.
I'm not sure you actually watched the video
Thank you for all ur time and all the good ideas.
🙂
Great video! You put a lot of effort into them!
I discovered your RUclips channel today, and I've watched half-a-dozen. I'm in California, and I haven't had problems with rats in my garden as of yet, but I just recently started to have problems with gophers, even in my 18" high raised beds. Thirty plus years of gardening, and this is the first time gophers have invaded. I know what I have to do! I will be deterring them by removing the soil from the raised bed, lining the bottom with hardware cloth, and then returning the soil to the boxes. I've been very impressed with your experiments and reporting. All of your posts have been very thoughtful. I'm looking forward to watching more.
Thanks, glad you found my channel. And hope you have some success with keeping the gophers out!
Great video, thanks I hope a lot off people espeally in countryside see this!
🙂
I loooove the way you talk! Thanks for such good info!
🙂
Thanks for such a very informative and well presented video about a problem most of us will share. You explain all the alternatives very well indeed and the pictures are amazing!
I am confused about where you are situated. Your accent does not sound 'British English' - especially the word 'compost'. But the local countryside, the familiar weeds around, and the fox all suggest the UK.
I have found raised rotary composting to be the most effective in preventing rat occupation, and also asist the fastest degradation. I also grow carrots and beetroot in deep containers on inverted metal school tables suspended from the roof of the polytunnel. But they do have to be quite high as these beasts are surprisingly clever at getting to where there is a good smell of a tasty food source!
Thanks! I am based in Ireland, and have lived here for a few decades, but grew up in Canada, so a mixed accent.
Interesting ideas for preventing rat damage.
Great presentation. I've watched tons of videos trying to deal with norway rats recently invading my town in Idaho (brought in my shipping containers from California). I have a crazy idea. Cover the nesting area with hardware cloth and using electrified fence wire to repel them. Also wiring up all around my deck and veg garden. I've tried just about everything else.
Wow, Very informative, excellent explanation of your problem and solutions you have tried and tested. Thank you.
Not all cats are good ratters, just as not every human is a good gardener. I wonder what Shawn Woods would suggest.
True.
Great 👍 👍 👍 You actually did a documentary.... Very good content.
Hahaha 😂. What the heck that cat, must be a conservationists.
🙂 That cat just wasn't interested. And the rats were not concerned at all!
Does laying down a few pipes under the compost pile give them set entryways. Make asphyxiating them a quicker task. Let them repopulate the maze and hit em again.
Very good stuff, Bruce. The criticism is often based on POV's from other scenarios. They are indeed not specifically attracted to certain things. I agree with tolerate, but it's important in my environment to consider what their population would have been if we were not here (as humans). Dog food, feed, compost, bbq's, chickens, rabbits... we give them an opportunity to quickly increase way beyond what would be a natural population in the area. This is where we have a responsibility to control their numbers respectfully, for their own good, ours and other animals. On the manner of dispatch, I agree that humane/instant termination is the way to go.
Good point, I agree. The 'natural' population of rats would be really low without humans.
You can combine baking soda and vinegar, the chemical reaction creates a gas called carbon dioxide. Put some plastic bottles into the holes thus letting the gas escape into the nests.
Wow
Top best videos ever. Easy, simple great explanation.
Excellent video. I don't have the ability to attract rats to a compost pile and most of them live in neighbor's houses anyways. So I mounted a thermal gun site to my pellet gun! I have found the Sig Sauer MPX offers repeated shots without reloading (30) or cocking. One night about every other month or two I clean up all the rats I can find outside. When I first started doing this I would kill around 20. Now it is down to 3-4.
Useful advice for those who are interested in that type of approach.
thanks for sharing as always your content is of great help!
Glad it was helpful!
Rats dont like scaffold netting so i stuff used damaged net into holes blocking them in or out. Continually destroying their homes helps them to look elsewhere
Yeah, that would probably work. I prefer to know where they are though.
I am glad to see you taking on this controversial topic. I am wandering if in further development of your methods the following options could be investigated? Could natural deterents work as an additional method. I am thinking of perennial onions or other smells that could discourage them. Maybe animal smells like dog excrement or synthetic pig hormones could be used as well. Secondly I am wondering if designated fox borrowing areas could be useful. I imagine a designated zone that is fenced off, where shrubs and trees grow completely undisturbed. Finally I am wondering if gasses could be sourced elsewhere. I live in the city near the highest point of the area. I speculate methane could be harvested here because it's lighter than air. In the lower areas of the city sewers probably contain more hydrogen sulfide. I think we produce a lot of toxic gas that can be used one way or another. I am always very hesitant about the use of rare gases like argon.
I am super impressed by the methods you put in place. Directing the rats to designated locations is very impressive. Thank you for your many years of shared experience on this channel!
I have heard that people can have success with natural deterrents to keep the rats out of particular areas. I am not sure it if would work with trying to keep them away from a food source, but it would be an interesting thing to explore.
I think one of the issues with foxes, and other predators, is that the rat population level that would be needed to keep a fox happy enough to stay in the area, is likely higher than what us humans would find acceptable. on our site, there are loads of places for a fox to make a den, and quite safe and reasonably secluded, but I am not sure why they have not moved in when we had loads of rats around.
Unfortunately, rat bait poisons, disables, and kills the animals who eat rats too, like foxes and owls. I think your attract and asphyxiate method is admirable, in situations where the rats need to be controlled.
Thanks. I agree with those reasons to avoid conventional poisons.
I built several electric traps! I placed several metal poles in the ground where the rats had their borrows! When it rained or I use the hose to soak the area, then I crank up the power through step-up transformers! A couple of discharges and everything is dead,
That would kill a lot!
I have rats here because neighbours keep putting scraps into bins that aren't covered.
I bought a large bag of ground hot chili peppers, used it around the commonly traveled areas of the rats. Squirrels, rats and even raccoons are rodents, they are averse to anything with "hot, spicy" so it deters the rats from nesting because they bring back the hot chili powder to their nests.
Unfortunately I still have to use traps, but much stronger ones than shown. It's a simple set trap that's black, can actuate with a pad and definitely is quick kill.
I also put hardware cloth along any ramps where the rats can hide/travel.
Rats don't like coffee grounds I heard it's true ,& i've had rats it's true so try sprinkling coffee grounds as a deterrent!!!
As sad as it may be, pest management is a part of growing food
Yes, it is.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Very interesting.
I deal with rats in my garden. 1 Cage traps 2. snap traps 3. A trail cam to monitor activity to know when I have a problem, and to know when things are under control. If I see Rat activity on the cam I get aggressive.. More traps and checked daily, no rats.... Less traps and checked every 3 days.
Using the gas method, do you then dig through your compost to remove the bodies or do you leave them & allow the bodies to break down in the compost?
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but CO² buildup causes considerable stress in all respiratory animals, because CO² detection is a primary function necessary for survival. In cases of suffocation or asphyxiation, it's not the lack of oxygen that is sensed, it's the buildup of CO².
Nitrogen is inert, undetectable, and would cause asphyxiation without the animals even being aware that it's happening. I assume that argon would work in a similar fashion. Nitrogen makes up 78% of our air, so it makes sense that 100% feels no different. Argon is the 3rd most common gas, but it's less than 1% of the air.
Either way, if you are concerned with humane extermination, don't use CO². It's essentially the difference between getting drowsy and taking a nap, or being smothered by a pillow.
Also, a little nitrogen in the soil is never a bad thing.
Yeah, if I had an easy supply I would probably use nitrogen. But, personally, I am not concerned enough about the suffering to go too much out of my way or spend too much money to get the Nitrogen. But a very useful option for others who are more concerned and have easier access to supplies.
Last years I had mice or rats even climb tomato plants and take a bite of **every** tomato. If they had stolen just one or two I wouldn't mind, but each one and pooping on the others is a bit much. I haven't found the perfect method for my situation yet, I just have a few square meters garden at the house, but thank you for the thoughtful overview and inspiration on this topic.
I really appreciate you're trying to find the best solution to a problem without introducing lots of follow up issues (like you do in all your videos). Also, at least I can't think of a way to approach this topic in a more sensible way in a RUclips video, very well done.
That is tough! I have seen that happen in our gardens, with the rats nibbling lots of the fruit, not just one. I thought they were sampling them, looking for a good one!
Thanks for the supportive comment. Talking about this issue is a bit tough, as I don't know how people will react.
I had rats almost completely kill some plants we grow for our business and have found deterring them from coming into the shade tunnel works better than trapping or poisoning. We've had a massive rat plague in Australia for the last few years, predators are only just starting to catch up to the population change. The neighbours have outside cats but that hasn't really slowed the rats at all. I have several inside cats who use bentonite clay litter trays which I put in little piles around the shade house near the rat holes and they haven't been back since. If they think a cat is passing by they might just come in and out but if they think the cats live in the shade house from the smell of the urine filled clay they don't come back at all.
We are thinking of using big wheeled bins for composting food from now on to reduce the amount of food they can get from us, but I have not tried the clay on the vegie patch yet because it might contaminate things. I might try keeping it in a pot instead of piling it up loose.
Putting the litter boxes in the tunnels makes sense.
Ooh, that's a good idea! My cat usually goes outside but if I keep him in overnight he'll sometimes pee in the box. Or I could go over to the neighbor's and confirm her suspicion that I'm crazy by asking her if I can have some of her cat's used litter.
Me and a friend go around farms and use a liquid bait chocolate spread and cooking oil mix so the rats have to stop and feed we dispatch them with air rifles using hollow point pellets you cant kill all of them but we keep numbers down.
Sounds like a useful option, for those of us who like guns, and have easy access to them.
I've seen it recommended to cover your greens (food scraps) with browns so they are less likely to attract pests.
It might help with some pests, but I have found rats will burrow deep into a pile.
Thank you for sharing this information with us. I really enjoyed your videos.
🙂
Awesome comprehensive video. Thank you!
🙂
Build a rat heaven, compost / nesting /feeding, bin from scrap plywood with one or two entrances/exits that can be closed off.
Periodically, in line with rat gestation period cover and seal off and gas them.
You could run a pipe from a gallon can containing some crushed coal which you could heat with your torch and they would just go to sleep permanently.
Repeat at appropriately times
Just a thought,
Love your channel, and looking forward to your growing year.
Very sound advice thank you for showing it God bless you and catch you down the trail
🙂
Thanks Bruce
🙂
I find it odd that the comments recommend dogs, cats, sealed compost bins etc when Bruce clearly explains in the video his reasons for not choosing these options.
I guess most people reply from their context not necessarily Bruce's context.
And a lot of people use the comments to share with other people, not to necessarily tell me what to do.
I do agree with your points about that rats are both intelligent and well adapted creatures. I like nature, but this animal isn't belonging endemically in many countries. I don't know what other animals it may have replaced, do you know?
My neighbour has just landscaped his garden with a mini digger and I now have a rodent infestation. His garden had old mole tunnels, have the rats come from there do you think? Thanks.
Sounds likely.
At some point you say: there aren't enough predators around. The problem is likely that to sustain one predator it takes a stable population of many more preys. So even if there were enough predators, you'd still have more rats than you'd be comfortable with!
That is a very important point! So much is about tolerance. I find the same with hedgehogs and slugs. It takes a lot of slugs to keep a hedgehog in the area, more slugs than I am willing to have in the gardens.
Nitrogen gas, instead of CO2, may be an option. One of the issues with CO2 asphyxiation is that it likely triggers some amount of suffering in the animals, as accumulation of CO2 in blood is a powerful stimulus for sensation of choking in humans. Nitrogen (N2) doesn't cause that issue but can still cause asphyxiation, and it is probably much cheaper and accessible than argon.
Good to know. Thanks.
Glad to see someone brought this up. High CO2 signals the body to breathe, causing panic. Low O2 does not. Dying from inert nitrogen gas is peaceful, and is used in medically assisted suicide and humane bird slaughter.
VERY informative, THANK YOU!
🙂
Do you just give baking soda or is it a mixture? Please give more details on the mix. I've also heard of boric acid powder being used, but on the other hand they say it is too small qty to kill
I mixed baking soda with sugar and flour, but I can't remember the specific recipe (available with a quick google). Apparently the baking soda reacts with the stomach acid and causes them to bloat which kills them. Not sure how well it works, but it definitely leads to a fair amount of suffering, which is why I don't use it much any more.
Pardon my ignorance but if you have a rat hole on the outside of your house and you seal it off, aren't you effectively locking the rats in and their only escape then is to burrow even further into your house?
very thorough and watchable..thanks
With your flame torch, is there concern for unburnt chemicals being deposited into the compost? I heard this was a problem for farms near very busy highways bac in the day (that could also be an old wives' tale).
I think that propane is a fairly clean burning fuel, but there could be some potentially harmful unburnt residues, or smoke from the material in the hole that was burning. I don't know what effect this would have, if any on the compost, but I suspect it would be minor. The issue with farms near roadways is (or was) mainly based off of leaded fuel, and other impurities in the oil, and breakdown of rubber tires.
I was thinking that too, but a shallow dive suggests that even though propane may have contaminants of methane, butane, propylene (another 3 carbon molecule) etc, the combustion of all of these consists of CO2, CO, H2O, elemental carbon - so I think it's not a significant concern.
I have seen videos from the USA where a guy has about 6 ratter dogs and in a few hours they killed over 100 if not more. Hardly a rat escaped instant death once they were disturbed and ran out. The dogs were so fast catching them. If one missed another dog got it. There could be a business for an owner of trained ratter dogs.
That was a really good video very informative
The best way to deal with them with out the torch/ weed burner is.. use the motor of an old petrol strimmer. Fit a length of copper pipe from the exhaust, long enough so the end stays cold when you run it. To this fit a length of hose and then slide that in the hole. Run it a little more rich than normal so it smokes good.
@@moocher7336 Oh yeah! A weed whacker what a good idea! With extra oil in the 2 stroke fuel mix! Even better! Genius!
Us Brits been dealing with them like that on farms for over 20 years now. Look on YT for Terrier Ratting vids. May be you might see one being used.
Thank you. This was quite informative.
Very Informative, thank you. In my small garden i tolerate them 🙂 my compost is in bins but since i have backyard chickens....i put away all feed containers at night but feed that falls to the ground and doesnt get eaten up is impossible to clean up. Its all the burrows that are a worry, sometimes the tunnels collapse and leave large holes all over the place. Am thinking of what to do about that, for now i just refill them.
Yeah, rats seem to always be around when people have chickens.
Sorry for the long comment but I need help with my recently rat infested backyard! Until last year I had a gardener turn my compost over twice a year plus we used to be visited by occasional rat snakes and I didn't have any problem. Then my new next door neighbor placed his grain mill on his porch and that attracted rats which are now living in my compost pile and tunneling into my raised beds :(
He's been keeping poison outside and the dying rats came over into my yard which I'm not happy about. And we've also got a new family of wild mongoose in the area which are keeping out the snakes! The stray cats moving around our row of backyards don't seem to be up for the job but my little dog is interested, though I try to keep her away because I don't want her to get sick or anything. We will soon be going into the rainy season when my yard gets flooded and any rat waste will definitely move around. I'll soon be hiring someone to clean up the backyard (and prep for the rains) and build a sturdy compost bin, but my main question is this: 1) is it safe to use the compost for my food plants, considering rats may have laid eggs in it? I used to think the rat snakes who visited about 2/3 times a year were a danger although we simply had to call a local snake catcher who would let them off far away, but now realize how they balanced the ecosystem!
Rats don’t lay eggs! …….They are mammals and give birth to live young .
We normally set traps for voles in the sweet potato bed. But last year we had rats for the first time. We trapped way more rats than voles. We are in an allotment also. We trapped over 35 rats, mostly young ones. I bought adult rat sized traps for this year. We did catch one house sparrow in a trap. But they are also a pest in the garden, they love pea sprouts and peck at the tomatoes for water. We take all the dead rodents and feed them to the burying beetles that live at the edge or our garden area. Natural predators are foxes, Kestrels, and Red Tailed Hawks. I am thinking of getting a rat terrier dog, as I grew up with one who was a great killer of rats and mice on the farm.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Right now we are dealing with a rat in the house. While I hate killing any animal (except roaches), I cannot tolerate it in my house.
I think things change completely when they are in your house!
@@REDGardens Just yesterday we finally were able to get rid of the rat. We bought a trap that uses electric shock. It killed the rat within seconds. So we can finally breath tonight. It was expensive, but worth it.
grow mint or lavender
You could try attracting more owls to help deal with the rats by building nests for them. If you have a few roosts directly in the property then not only would they kill the rats, but rats would quickly learn to keep their distance from the property due to the presence of the owls. You may also attract more foxes to the area by having some bushes and other loose shrubbery that the foxes can use for cover while moving or potentially build their dens inside of.
We have been suffering badly from rats in recent years. The biggest problem is sweetcorn. A couple of years ago I counted eight on my sweetcorn. So not very much left for me to eat. They also dig large burrows which can be a pain since it brings up the stoney subsoil. The cold winter seems to have had a good effect and I have seen no rats since the cold snap. I have dalek compost bins with manure in them and they had been making nests on the top under the lid, and I think they like the heat from the compost. I have been finding cat pee quite effective at deterring them. My daughter uses a corn based cat litter which clumps up so you just remove the balls of pee which she saves for me. They are permanently inside so less likely to carry any diseases or infections. I tried poison but they seem immune because they kept eating it and there seemed to be no sign of less rat activity. I tried plaster of paris with dried chicken soup, but rather concerned about what happened to the rats. Seems you also need to supply water at the same time.
That is tough, having rats eat your corn! I definitely want to stop that from happening as we are doing some corn trials this year. Interesting about the cat urine.
@@REDGardens I have taken to putting a plastic bottle over each cob of corn. Need to ensure that the rain drains out of it. The rats learned to push the bottle up so need to wedge them very securely. A bit laborious but I use the same bottle in the spring to keep the plants warm.
Just wanted to correct my previous comment - the rat contraceptive is called "Contrapest".
During winter I use baking soda mixed cheap cooked rice. I form it into small cakes and set them out where I see rat runs.
I can see the working well, especially in the winter.
Thank you, this was helpful
🙂
have you tried asking some of your group to try making bokashi then add it to the compost heap rats not keen on it
Good vlog
I’m thinking about moving to a property that was once a rendering plant where I know there’s a big rat population
Sounds great right 😊
Thinking about starting a cat refuge
or maybe Jack Russell’s to keep them at bay
A cat refuge sounds like a good option! 😁
i wonder, do you just put the rats back in the compost pile to add to said composts nutrients?
i wonder if doing so would introduce disease perhaps?
how do you deal with the waste bodies?
Yes, the rats go back into the compost, and I don’t worry about any disease lasting through the decomposition process.
I think I've tried all the methods you've mentioned over ~20yrs, my chicken coop is now pretty much armour plated with strips of tin cut from white goods, my river valley brownfield site was backfilled 1M deep with builders rubble/clay topped with river dredged silt, up to a hedgeline, the borrows are into this through the hedge so accessing the burrows is problematic. I this this has been my most successful year, using a combination of bakingsoda mixed with peanut butter 50/50 (microwaving the peanut butter makes mixing much easier) and the 5 gal bucket beer can water trap using peanut butter as bait, I've had 4 populations in the last ~12 months move in, all delt with within 2 weeks using these methods, but I did loose all my overwintering carrots, and two buckets of saved seed potatoes this winter. I've only gone though 3 jars of peanut butter and 3 pots of baking soda in that time, bait placed next to the coop, next to the chicken feed bins, and next to compost piles, with one water trap next to the feed bins. Argon is very expensive I just changed my welding gas bottle from hobby weld (trommel is almost built!) £92 plus £110 deposit, most other suppliers require a hire agreement with a monthly hire charge!!
Thanks for sharing your experiences. The peanut butter and baking soda does seem to work.
I was considering this method did you notice if your chickens ate the peanut butter mix or if they were interested or affected by it?
@@tinnerste2507 I don't put it in with the chickens, I have a lean to covered wood store backing onto my coop so I put a dish in there, I'm sure they would eat it if they had access not sure weather it would effect them, I wouldn't risk it just in case, a simple bait box mite be an answer if you have to put it inside the run/coop
@@glassbackdiy3949 cheers for the reply. I was also concerned that the chickens would eat the mice as they are dying too. outside the chicken stall I have a cat. They like to winter in the stall bedding and eat the food throughout the day. Il try putting some in the middle of an old stovepipe
Great video Bruce. 🐀💚
Thanks Joe!