LATAM Boeing 777 Tailstrike Findings: Flight Computer Had Incorrect Takeoff Parameters
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- From a past video on this channel, you may recall that on July 9th, a LATAM Boeing 777-300ER scraped the runway for several seconds before finally taking off from Milan Malpensa Airport. Subsequently, it returned to the same airport before finally being ferried back to Brazil several days after the incident.
Well, Italy’s air accidents investigations body has released its preliminary report, providing us with a better idea of what went wrong. Let’s take a look for today’s video!
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I can't understand with the level of knowledge on board that the take-off figures were not suspicious to them.
Especially when there is an instructor pilot on board.
@@user-yt198 Culture of not wanting to question those who are above you? Wouldn't be the first time someone didn't want to rock the boat by not questioning a senior officer and then something bad happened because of an otherwise obvious issue.
Exactly my thoughts! This could have gone much worse if the runway was shorter and the FLEX temp was higher
@@greentravels2850 Pilots from all cultures have made these kind of mistakes so no, probably not.
I also wondered, cause i mean there must of been higher, lower calculations, which gave them similar figures,
145KT takeoff speed for a full flight traveling across the ocean should have been the first red flag to double-check your numbers.
I mean in their defense, not like there was an experienced instructor captain sitting in the cockpit that could catch that…. Oh wait…
And the instructor was flying... so he did the skid during takeoff!!
I like how the way the narrator pronounced the Italian safety agency😅
Bro that tailstrike was brutal
Bruh they poop scooted across MXP like a dog with worms
How on earth the captain didn't realize that a plane that big, with that many passengers and that amount of fuel, those V1, VR and V2 were wrong. I mean, surely isn't the first time they flew that route.
Those takeoff figures were unusually low for the weights
Reminds me of that Emirates A340 a few years back.
383 passengers plus crew ? That's a lot of weight.
Yes indeed
I was shocked at how much the fully loaded fuel weighs.
@@vzkmqz the airplane could have still had another twenty three tons of fuel
True, lots of payload
777-300ER can carry 145 tons os fuel
It’s frankly disgraceful. The pilots were clearly at fault, and put the plane and its occupants in great danger.
That's a huge difference. I don't understand it. Full aircraft and long flight. Three pilots didn't catch it.
almost the maximun weight on that plane and three pilots agreed on 145kts V1?What were they thinking?Unacceptable.
Regardless of the data error, they should have known not to pitch above the tailstrike indicator on the pfd.
I am a 777 instructor and have never heard of a tail strike indicator on the PFD.
-> Thank you Mark. I remember there was something when I was on Airbusses.
@MrMonoTracer My mistake.I haven't flown Boeing since 2006. After that, I was on the A330, which had a pitch limit indicator.I falsely assumed it was on all modern aircraft with a risk of tailstrike on takeoff.
"The tail strike pitch limit indication is currently displayed at takeoff and landing on all A340 and A380 aircraft. The tail strike pitch limit was an option on the earlier models of the A330ceo but was later installed as standard for all A330ceo produced after mid-2013."
The flight directors sit at 8° showing there the tail strike limit is whilst the aircraft is on the ground. This is about as much as Boeing gives you.
@@EdOeuna There is one more thing on our 777s:
„Tail Strike Protection - During takeoff or landing, the PFCs calculate if a tail strike is imminent and decrease elevator deflection, if required, to reduce the potential for tail strike. Activation of tail strike protection does not provide feedback to the control column.“ (FCOM SD.9)
@@MrMonoTraceras an instructor, do you teach to keep pitching up? I’ve flown with guys from different airlines and they all seem to just keep pulling back until they reach their climbout pitch. It scares me a bit sometimes. I bring the nose up and stop at a certain deck angle, which is below tailstrike territory and let the airplane fly off the runway. Only when airborne, do I increase the deck angle.
this shows the 777 strength.
The 777X is a different tale 😂
@@DylanTrippe stronger than airbus at least.
I see what you did there. 😂@@DylanTrippe
@@DylanTrippeVery true
@@AbdullahNajib-b9zLol what ?!?! You can't be serious, fr... are you blind or stupid ? Airbus makes the strongest aircraft, that DON'T crash after takeoff because they have a stupid sensor that doesn't work and they aren't made with plastic and loose screws with the wall falling out !!!!! like the MAX, terrible piece of crap. Airbus will always be the best. You're just spreading fake lies at this point and it's laughable... or you just have a small brain ! 😂😂😂
if a trainee co-pilot makes a mistake during an actual pax flight there's a captain (trainer) in the cockpit to correct him . . . but when a captain (trainer) makes a mistake in-flight whose there to correct him . . . 326 - 348 seats in a 3-class layout is the ideal cabin configuration for all B777-300 ER wide body jets, considering all aspects of a pax flight . . . recommended high density seating on the B777-300 ER should not exceed anymore than 368 . . . regardless of whether it's a full service carrier or low-cost budget carrier . . .
Well various carriers operate 777's with more than 500 pax
@@devanarayananj1291stop the cap
@@devanarayananj1291 indiGo operate leased B777-300 ER from Turkish Airlines & the cabin seats 489 paxs in a single class layout . . .
KLM lists their 77W's at 381 or 408 seats. Care to comment?
@@Tpr_1808 🙄🙄
Emirates Flight 407 flashbacks
Very true
Those pilots were also sacked. One of them was also 1 hour short of the max monthly hours limit Emirates has
It's not a 'massive' error. Like most, it's a simple error with a complex chain of holes in the Swiss Cheese leading up to it. Let's hope the airline investigates and responds thoughtfully to any system factors rather than just pointing the finger of blame at the pilots. They should be accountable for their actions, but there is probably more at play than meets the eye.
30 knots is a massive range in Vr speeds. Aircraft don’t rotate anywhere from 50 to 500 knots, the range is much smaller. These were near upper and lower limits of typical speeds. An experienced pilot should have seen it. If someone tells you to set your cruise to 50 on a sunny day on an interstate highway, an experienced driver will notice.
@@rdspam"Could have" or "should have" are what Sidney Dekker calls 'counterfactuals'. We can all say that, but it doesn't get you any closer to understanding what happened.
Yes, that was the most likely explanation. Clerical errors are much easier to make than handling mistakes.
The take off looks like the test Boeing does with the block of wood attached which is the minimum stick takeoff or something like that.
A training captain that did not know the plane or forgot about the numbers on the paperwork I am assuming he had flown a lot of hours on the model.
too much expierience can be negative there as it can make you loose attention to detail.
wow that pronunciation.
It was terrible, not italian at all... 😂
Would be very easy to program the systems to avoid these issues..
I can’t believe that in this age of technology, the aviation industry doesn’t have a system in place where they can fit permanent sensors on the undercarriage that transmits the aircraft weight to the FMS which would then activate a config warning if the incorrect weights are entered into the FMS. ( by the crew). Currently the V speeds can be manually inserted by the crew which will then override the FMS generated V speeds. Airline SOP’s are supposed to prevent this from happening but it continues to happen despite this. The technology that would deliver this information already exists as this is how the airlines weigh the aircraft , ie they put sensors between the aircraft jacks then jack up the aircraft , the sensors then send the information to be captured. Even the 70’s technology of the B747 had a sensor on the nose oleo strut which sensed the weight on that strut which transmitted a c of g signal to the take off trim Green Band Warning.
You'd still have to manually check and it would be another system that needs maintenance and calibration.
oops... my bad...
No……someone moved the pilot’s seat !
I suppose the cockpit crew must spend some time training again. It seems, with the knowledge we have, they made a mistake, like all people make mistakes. End of story, and live on!
Maybe with another airline. Though getting hired after being fired for this will be quite challenging.
@@rdspam Who said they will be fired?
@@arienoordzij3823 Latam fired them after the preliminary report came out
On average, how much would a tail strike cost? Is such an incident considered an aviation "fender bender"?
most tail strikes can be repaired easy
"There is a noise... no ?"
Id be surprisedvif any of the 3 pilots ever flies again.
No matter how advanced aircraft become, humans will inevitably make deadly mistakes.
If the follow up calculations are correct then surely it has to be PILOT ERROR surely more than the one pilot must double check the figures as we are human & do make mistakes but when your are responsible for nearly 400 people this thing should be double if not treble checked & I just wonder what was actual moneytary cost of this incident surely it's got be Massive 🙄🙄
Shortage of pilots. Entry in their log books, slap on the hand, pay for damages, and pay for 150k pounds of fuel. Back in the air and get on with it.
They were both sacked.
@@d.b.cooper1 The trio was fired
Sooo many jumping to conclusions!! but the main one would be that the training pilot is connected and the trainer was too silent.
What do i think? Dont fly LATAM.
daily mail not happy about this.ironic that all these newspapers are blaming boeing for no reason.
They were WAY too heavy obviously.
No. grossly underspeed for the weight.
@christopherescott6787 Yep that also
They were more than 50,000 pounds under a 777-300ER maximum takeoff weight. Not “WAY too heavy”. Obviously.
Love your Italian! 0:39
Human error
lol, the flight crew didn't even check the data in their FMS before pushback
The pilots were fired by LATAM on August 27
Is this true?
@@joshilini2 Yes. I’d send the link but YT does not allow. Give it a quick look online on google.
@@joshilini2 I think so
@@joshilini2Yes its true, Latam fired the 3 pilots, who were in command of the the flight, on last August after this investigation.
Im not surprised.
From my understanding one of them inserted the zfw instead of the tow making all the values ahead wrong. The question is why, did the loadsheet arrived on time? Or late by acars in a small piece of paper hard to read? At that time did the pilots have a quiet cockpit to work the numbers or they were interrupted by someone? Because in my 30 years of experience I saw so many times things rushed in at the last 5 minutes of a turnaround.
Could be perhaps something as insidious as one of the pilots circling the ZFW instead of the TOW, drawing the eyes of the other two pilots to the wrong figure. I have seen this done. So obviously don’t circle anything on the load sheet.
too bad this video didn't expand on the why...
Maybe they don’t know the why. They figured out what went wrong but sometimes why isn’t given enough detail.
We all make mistakes BUT this kind of mistake is NEVER justified. The picture I'm looking at is the picture of two amateur pilots.....Exprience is also a checklist & memory item. Seeing the figures of the calculated weight should have given the said "Instructor-Captain" a concern... Cos there's always a difference in what you've been doing over & over compared to what you've done just 2-3 times
your right, and even the rotation for a long airplane was too much
Thats a taildrag not a tailstrike
Ohhh … that’s gonna leave a mark
I hope there was no damage to the rear bulkhead, remember what happened to Japan Airlines 747 years after a tail strike the rear bulkhead was damaged and repaired improperly causing the rudder to blow off mid flight killing over 500 people.
not just jal123, but also china airlines 611 whose tailstrike happened 20 years before the incident
@@satokotsuBoth crashes were horrible, i hope we do not see a similar one again.
Unfortunately training flights can get rather busy and things can get overlooked. Of course, there is the cross check of OPT Vref against FMC Vref which should be within 1st of each other. This is a very easy way to confirm that the ZFW entered into the FMC is correct.
"Annnd the jet is hard broke. Maintenance is now...PISSED!!"
-C.W. Lemoine
So similar to another incident who took place in Melbourne(Australia)where an Ab 340-600 Emirates made a tail strike due to pilots error in entering V-Speeds into FMC..
Typical pitch attitude 8.5 degrees for take and 12.1 degrees to have tail strike territory. What did his pitch attitude look like?
Pilots are supposed to check each other's work. I'm not a pilots and those V-Speeds seamed 737, not 777 speeds.
I'm by no means a pilot. But incredible things happen to the most knowledgeable people. I guess it's a matter of unfortunate circumstances.
You will read below that all three Pilots were fired by Latam.
And not once did the flight crew toga pilots need to fly not computers
Maybe the pilots did not all check the takeoff parameters, but left it to the least qualified pilot, or did they normally fly 737's and used the wrong set of parameters.
I'm no expert but, I do know that V1 for that aircraft and capacity is way to slow. I watch a lot of aviation videos.
Million $$$ repairs
Semi 3rd world culture.
I am glad I am not them
Those Vspeeds discrepancies, should have been caught way early. If this crew had flown several long flights, they should have realized that the speeds were wrong, and the dispatch paperwork should have been checked against the enterred data. Not much excuse for this.
I’m not a a pilot and even I can immediately tell that 145 KTs is way off for a fully loaded 777 take off weight. What were they thinking.
It isn’t if it’s a flap 20 take off.
Are the pilots still with the airline?
No
I'm sure a 777 captain is now looking for a job at some department store in São Paulo.
@@wickedpawn5437 well both 3 were fired by Latam on last August, if they gonna find another job position as a pilot is what I'm curious about?
😢@douglasduque2128 well, they can always fly foe aerosucre.
Incompetence or complacency, regardless those pilots should be sacked.
Have you ever made a mistake? It’s certainly possible to enter 237 instead of 273, for example. There are ways round mistakes, like both pilots entering information in their iPads independently, but they still see the same final load sheet. The reality is there is only one cross check for data between the load sheet and FMC, and they might not have it as an SOP.
They were.
@@EdOeuna The airline disagreed with your “meh, it happens…”
@@rdspam - this sort of thing happens far more than you think. Good quality airlines have systems in place to trap these mistakes. Clearly LATAM doesn’t.
Wondered why my spaghetti tasted of jet A.
then it wasn't spaghetti, wtf. Also, in Milan we eat food more like german and french, maybe you're stupid and have thinly veiled cliches in your small brain
@@milantehrandubai Someones got exposed nerves