Is Dr. Ramani related to Mr. Incredible and Elastigirl?.... Bob Parr (A.K.A. Mr. Incredible), and his wife Helen (A.K.A. Elastigirl), are the world's greatest famous crime-fighting superheroes in Metroville. Always saving lives and battling evil on a daily basis. They do not wear capes! From the 2004 movie, "The Incredibles".
That's why we shouldn't explain or defend ourselves verbally with Narcissists, it's simply giving them more potential ammo. Give them a look and they can't argue with that.
Exactly! I thought I was supposed to "do everything I could" to get HIM to understand! Why did I only feel "insane" when I was with him? After ten years, I realized I was pouring water in a glass with no bottom! Done! ✅
Observe what they’re saying, but don’t absorb it. Don’t identify with it. Recognise as something that is separate to you and something that belongs to them.
@@melodyharmony8448 absorb means to take it personally. You should say to yourself “there they go again, treating me like they treat everyone (which is true). Poor thing they are out of control. Perhaps I can be kind and de escalate the situation (IF I have the training) so they can get back to what passes for normal for them. If not poor thing I won’t take your remarks as having to do with me...they have to do with you.” One is still stressed by the situation but the stress is much reduced. And once it really cools down you can tall yourself that yiu handled yourself well while the other person was making an asshole of themself...and you did not. It works but it takes practice. But pride and a sense of personal empowerment comes from it. You do NOT get power over the other person. But realizing you have power over yourself and you remained a lady or a gentleman when they acted like a fool and tried to get yiu to be a bigger fool. If you argue with them or act inappropriately and become the bigger fool then they win. They made a fool of you. If you let them win the fool’s contest, well good. I do not wish to win the fool’s contest and be the bigger fool. 😊 it has taken me years to learn how to do this and much of it I taught myself. Now all these narcissism videos have come out and (deep sigh) they have served to validate me. And to encourage me to keep up the good work. If you remain in a relationship with them you will still suffer sometimes at their hands. But you will not suffer even further because you played into their hands. You can do it too. Love, Bob
My therapist told me, "When he starts with his disruption, don't defend yourself. Just look at him and think, this is who he is." It took me a while, but now I get it. Thank you Dr. Ramani for supporting me. I couldn't do it without you. You've changed my life for the better!
One thing that Dr. R does which has been very helpful is that she says the same things, which are really pretty simple, over and over again in slightly different ways. Dealing with a narc is not intuitive. They don't react like healthy people. It takes a while - it's taking me a while - to slowly learn the rules of the game. And it will always be the narc's rules when you play with them, they won't (can't) have it any other way. Dr. R repeatedly lays out those same basic principles with slightly different insights each week. So now I can listen to one of Dr R's videos and reflect on specific situations and judge if my reaction was helpful or harmful. The more I listen to her the more the fog starts to clear on an absolutely baffling and frustrating relationship, and the faster I can recognize a developing situation and start to get ahead of it. It seems the narc has powerful weapons but they are actually few in number and easy to recognize once you know them.
@@heatherg5854 Tortured children becoming torturers when they're grown up. But they don't understand that it's not fair to take revenge their past from innocent people around them...
Don't Defend. Don't Explain. Don't Engage. Don't Personalize. Being Authentic is hard when you know people are using it against you. But its not forever! Others will see you and the difference in communication and the ability to be you will be night and day! Don't ignore the red flags.
I think the narcissist must feel very humiliated when they can't rattle you or get you to react anymore. What else do they have when they lose that power over you.
It's like trying to soak up water (aka explaining a problem / feeling) with a sponge (aka a narcissistic) that's already fully saturated with its own liquid (aka inability to comprehend any other point of view but their own). What happens if you try? The original water (aka problem / feelings) is still there, but now you've got even MORE water all over the floor because the soaking sponge (aka narc) has been squeezed. Pointless!
@@ladybaabaa3294 Thank you 💜💕 It's only looking back that I realise the shell of myself I had become at the end. He was dissatisfied with everything and I was like "look you clearly don't even like me as a person anymore so why are we bothering here?". The eventual discard was spectacular and timed for the biggest hurt and disruption in my life. Then he wanted to be friends! *Friends!!!!!!* I can't repeat what I told him lol xx
I don't need the deep technique, I need the "don't start laughing" technique. It's just, ever since I've learned about narcissism and what makes it characteristic, I just can't stop myself from bursting into tears from laughing so hard when they go into narc mode. It's like they all follow a manual or a narc skript and they're so stuck in it that I can't help but laugh like an idiot. I was raised thinking that every single one of us is absolutely unique and then they're just all the same, LITERALLY!!!
Haha i laugh at narcs too now. It makes them so uncomfortable which then makes me giggle more. But this deep technique is definitely useful when you cant just laugh em off.
Yes, I too have to keep myself from laughing at him sometimes. But it also makes me feel like I'm just as horrible as he is when I show no empathy. It's odd. I sometimes have had to ask myself if I'm the narc when I want to tell him to "stop" or "I've heard this before" or "do we have to talk about this AGAIN (and I can no longer hide the sarcasm) " or "I don't have time for this because I have to get ready for work". Does this make sense?
I also have my laughing fits. My ex cheated on me so much and tried to justify it with, "Whenever you were distant (busy) I looked for comfort somewhere else and I did sleep with other people. But whenever things were going fine I didn't do anything with anyone else (lie). I just wanted you to know that." LMAO are you serious? These narcs actually believe this stuff and think that is justified and that they're saints. I don't even pity them anymore. No contact is the only way.
I remember a particular argument where I said "excuse me for trying to defend myself." My mom turned to me and said, "YOU have no defense." I never tried to talk to her again.
As I watch dr.Ramani’s videos I realize I made so many mistakes and wasted so much energy while going nuts trying to explain and trying to defend myself in my almost 7 year relationship with my ex narcissist . It’s all so clear now...I was not crazy ! 1 month and counting the blessings ! 🙏
Document every situation of love bombing. If he tries to text, call, leave gifts at your house. If it is known no contact you can file for an emergency protective order and get a final protective order in court with your documented evidence. That's what I'm doing right now.
I put up with it for my children to keep their dad. Now they are married and have children. You can imagine the length of my nightmare!! I plan to divorce very soon and spend my left years of my life in healthy, peaceful environment, or in solitude.
@@philima I kept saying to myself I need my life back, I am finally at the stage to take it back now after the second hoover, neither worked and I have not seen him in two months, I just need him to stop texting me.
30 years of trying to figure him out. Blaming his traumatic childhood and father issues. Trying to better myself. 60, no job, many miles away from family, and no support system. Your videos are filling my soul with validation. Thank you!
@@ladypeace8912it's a realistic fear. I was stuck in my narc family (parents and brother) until now, at 57. It's seems so hard to get out, but trust me, once you're doing it, it's not as horrible as you anticipated it to be. You are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for. That's what they have done to you. But your mind will heal fast, once it gets the opportunity. It's ready. I wish you courage and strength, and many years full of love and respect. You deserve it.
"Its not because you aren't good enough, it's because they're treating you badly." Thank you Dr Ramani. I kept engaging for decades with my mother and her flying monkeys, giving them opportunities to treat me with contempt. Life is so much better with only people who reciprocate love and appreciation. I grieve for the people who used to love me in return but were turned against me by slander, but they are no longer the loving ones they were. They are different, practising their cruelty, so I'm not begging any more.
10:30 it took me a long time to realize that narcissism is about superficiality and being so egoistic and insecure that making everyone else around them feel bad is sort of par for the course
So true! A narc's insecurities are mind boggling. You cannot reason with or defend yourself when dealing with a narc. You are wasting your time and energy.
Yup, I used to defend myself, try to explain so he could understand me and why I was hurt by his behaviours. I used to engage so we could sort out issues and it was personalised because our relationship was so important to me, I wanted us to resolve and learn from our fights. In the end, I was blamed for my reactions. He discarded me because he was “scared of my reactions” and that I “loved to argue”. Better yet, if we could have argued in his language “he would win and not me”. It was never about winning - for me, it was what I thought was for love.
This is very tough to learn, but essential. Beware when you’re tired, just got up, going to bed-you can get caught of guard and suddenly you’re defending in court.
Soooo true. I've been doing extremely well handling my pathologically narcissistic mother throughout the past year, and found myself defending when caught off guard one morning. Mere seconds later, I realized I'd done so retrospectively and was beyond frustrated. Suffice to say, I learnt this lesson at that very moment, and am even more cautious now with EVERY communicative exchange.
This channel is a gold mine. Once you gain clarity on narcissistic patterns, you realise that you are the power because you have what they need and they are dependent on it. You can actually find observing their behaviours quite amusing. But more often it's just sad, especially, if they are someone you used to respect.
Good points made in your post. Also, where you wrote, "But more often it's just sad, especially, if they are someone you used to respect." Ah, yes. My "aha moment," realizing how I let myself be duped while I also RESPECTED and TRUSTED him -- "aha" and then "oh, no" and "why?" -- thinking on those and then making me very sad and sometimes angry.
Yeah they get mad, and then mental abuse come to physical in worst cases, the worst thing about mental abuse is you can’t show it to other people that atleast they can believe it, It’s just the mental thing going on all over the place,
Also experiencing this one! They want a reaction. Any reaction. And the anger escalates until they can feed off of your reaction. No reactions means there is nothing to feed.
Holly, while I don't know you or your details, this sounds all too familiar to me, and it's setting off alarm bells in my head. Someone who escalates like that gets off on the escalation and the fight and "winning." Hurting you (possibly just emotionally now, but don't count on it staying at that level) makes him feel in control and powerful. It won't stop. It will likely get worse. Power over you may be his drug of choice, and if that's true he'll need more to feed the habit as time passes. You may not be safe.
That statement about how grey rocking is hard because it’s a constant inauthentic state was gold for me! It’s exactly how I feel and tried to express. It is almost just as taxing as interacting. I stick to it but it feels so foreign and at times like I am losing who I am. But having close friends is absolutely key. Thank you for this validation
I have had to repeat the mantra of don’t defend and don’t explain to myself while he is ranting and cursing at me. It was so hard to hold my tongue back. Then when I didn’t engage at all, he hit me a few times as if he was frustrated that he didn’t get a reaction. I’m still stuck here
My mom is a grandiose narcissist. When I was younger and tired of dealing with her devaluing phases, I’d just stare at her as she was calling me names and accusing me of doing and feeling things I never did. I was grey rocking and didn’t even know. That made her even more furious. She used to tell me to stop staring her with my “snake eyes”
Don't Defend, Explain, Engage, Personalise Deep = the authentic person's response to the narc's DARVO encompassing Deny, Attack and Reverse Victim Offender. Thank you Dr Ramani 🙏💖
@@mantisno9201 The narc switches the roles of who is the offender and who is the victim. While the narc is the offender in reality, s/he will try to portray the situation as if the narc is the victim, and the victim in reality is the offender.
I swear Dr. Ramani, Melania Tonia Evans, Ross Rosenberg, Lisa Romano and others I am sorry I didn’t get to are like The Avengers of Narcissistic Abuse Recovery.
I now go by "If that's who you are, then that's YOU" attitude 🤭 This mantra helps me ensure I keep on following the DEEP Technique. Their words are meaningless to me now. They can say all hurtful stuff and I can still go on my day just fine. Lots of high-likely narcissistic people in the workplace. I'm starting to love my current job. I'm 7 months in and I want to stay with this company for the next 5 years or so. Thank you for everything. I can now coexist with these people and not break down and cry.
I feel like I have wasted so much time and energy, especially now that I know that for almost two years, I've been doing the equivalent of arguing with a box of rocks
Ha ha, it's like we'd need a stick of dynamite to move their thinking! Kaboom, mine gets! He's learning the hard, I'm gonna ruffle your rocks you piss me off so much, way! If I ever cook for him again (been a decade, only at Xmas and he'd better stay out of my kitchen) I'll say "Hay pile of rocks, which hot 🔥 spice you want added so you can taste something?"
It's hard, because you still hear their words ringing in your head. Once you start to hear Dr Ramani's words, and understand the truth, you will have peace.
Oh boy … I did this and I am ashamed. My son married a covert Narc and I bought into it hook line and sinker for awhile also. Then recently he accused me of a laundry list of things I did NOT do and I got so defensive - it got ugly , the call ended and I haven’t heard a peep from him I am 72 and been supportive of him for 49 years. Than this person comes along and snap, just like that he is gone. I am thankful he shares custody of my granddaughter and that her mother has expressed that she needs me in her life and will let me visit with her - it is the worst thing I have ever experienced and never met anyone like his wife before. She is the poster child of a narcissist- she love bombed him and me.. and slowly dismissed me after I did so much for her , her kids and them as a couple. It is hard to be done. But your videos are helping a lot.. I am stamping DEEP on my forehead … thank you
Until I went into therapy and uncovered the narcissistic abuse my mother dished out all my life, you could have powered a small city on the energy I wasted on her defending and explaining myself 😢 Thank you Dr Ramani for this short, to the point and extremely useful video
I wish I knew this as a child. My mother accused me of terrible things on a regular basis and defending myself caused her to harm me emotionally and physically. Was terrible and scary.
I didn't start defending myself until I got into my teens and was forced to live with my "mother". Our society is toxic with it's whole mantra of "people will accept you for who you are if you just explain and be true to yourself with them" and "everyone has good in them somewhere!!" nonsense.
Every time I start to think I could maybe have a relationship with my narc mom, I always start defending, explaining, and engaging because she tries everything to get any kind of rise out of me. Then I remember who TF I am and don’t need to do that anymore :)
So many times he would turn a little accidental error if mine into an opportunity to berate me, insult me, call me insane, sick , stupid, threaten to abandon me ...and made me believe I was evil, mean, incompetent and not trustworthy. Thanks, your videos helped me restore a bit of serenity and the ability to trust myself again.
Thankyou so much Dr.Ramani. I have been out of the relationship for 4 months now and have been following your advice. You have empowered me and made me feel strong again. The old me is back and I love her. I am confident, and free. You are a treasure for us all. 🌟
Thank you so much for this. It has saved my life and sanity. I’ve seen your videos and applied them to the situation in my life. I used DEEP it was like watching a playbook. I could call the next play and just sit and watch. Took away my guilt gave me and my family boundaries, stability. You know it’s a game and I’m not playing it. It was just really amazing using this seeing it work and then the harsh reality of this person is a narcissist. It’s a game folks don’t play.
I survived adolescence as a grey rock. I became one long before I knew what one was. I was near completely shut down and void. I made a promise to myself that some day I would be free to shine: have friends, an emotional life, live to speak my truth.
I LOVE THIS! Lots of these kind of people out there so, I have to keep watching this segment to allow it to sink in. Otherwise the Narcissistic people will keep us in an ETERNAL KANGAROO COURT. GO DEEP! Don't DEFEND! Don't EXPLAIN! Don't ENGAGE! Don't PERSONALIZE! GO DEEP! GO DEEP! GO DEEP!
I visit this video from time to time to remind myself not to defend, engage, explain, nor personalize. I'm grateful for you Dr. Ramani. You helped me make it out of an emotionally abusive relationship. I'm finally divorced and, for the most part, free from the vulnerable narcissist. By the way, I love your podcast.
I agree with your opinion on grey-rocking. It's kind of being insincere about what you may be feeling. But it's kind of like ducking when a fist is coming at your face. Necessary!
It's CHOOSING what you convey. Since they use your own words, responses and emotional state against you, it is withholding that from them. Learning to "veil" one's facial expressions, means they can't tell what you're thinking. It gives them less to work with.
Wow, why didn't I now knew this years ago, suffering for more than 20 years leading into anxiety and panic disorders. Dr. Ramani, you're given me what I exactly need. Thank you
Something to add to your narrative: endlessly talking about your narcissistic relationship to everybody you know. A beautiful friend is married (now divorcing) a textbook first-class narcissist. For years her friends heard her stories about “what he did this time.” Eventually, I got bored of the on-going saga with no conclusion. Eventually, I got irritated at her apparent weakness and inability to punch back. Still, the stories kept coming over-and-over ad nauseum ... it became her identity! Thank God it’s all changing now ... I hope! Divorcing. Don’t make living with a narcissist your identity. Don’t become a chronic complainer.
@@redefinedliving5974 Not sure if your LOL comment was directed toward me ... However, "understanding" is an interesting concept. Two people can hear the same statement or view the same event; and have different "understandings." It happens all the time, and that's why we have different Political ideologies and Parties (for example). Your "command" that if person does not have YOUR "understanding" they cease any discussion, is a totalitarian statement: this is the thinking and directive of the Neo-Marxist "cancel culture." You don't agree? So, you want to shut the person down. Take a look at our Constitution some time, i.e., the First amendment.
@A M Well, sure if YOU say so ... but why do you fear other ideas or opinions? Psychology is not a religion ... Sad! I re-read my 5-months old post and the update is just wonderful! My dear friend is THRIVING ... SHE GOT out of the marriage. She has an awesome new job and is full of energy and enthusiasm. She even looks better! Funnily enough, when she does relate a "narcissist story" it's usually with a smile on her face. A person CAN escape the gulag.
@A M Thanks for a good, thoughtful and valid response ... and you're right! (Usually people just yell at me or call me names.) I have definitely seen people continue to associate with the same sort of person over-and-over ... until they realize what's happening. Until they get to the "eureka" moment it can be an endless dilemma. Be Well ... and I hope people who are living this nightmare find peace (and a little prosperity too).
don't DEEP: defend, explain, engage, and personalize. . . "to explain. . . and then have it ignored, is extremely invalidating" (5:14). . . "in the long term, remaining in any kind of narcissistic relationship is not good for your health" (6:24). . . "emotional abuse is not okay. never." (8:12)
Hi, Dr. Ramini I say speak up for yourself no matter if the person hears it or not. It's about you validating your own feelings and processing the issue verbally. Everything shouldn't be in a narcissist power. I don't care if you are alone it gives you pride to vouch for your needs despite the other person's reaction and there is no need to personalize anything after you say it. I choose peace before anything even if it's done alone. There are too many social groups out here to be bothered with toxic folks go find them. My mental health matters to me too much. Narcisstic people don't have anymore power than any one else on this planet. Grayrock is perfect, so you don't have to go to jail. Speaking up has given me more good than bad situations. They can't gaslight if you tell truth about the behavior. The lies that they tell ain't my business. Loll!
I went to my elderly father's physical therapy session to be supportive to him. (He was a narcissist, but I didn't know that at the time.) He yelled at me, "you're a worthless piece of shit!" and the physical therapist looked shocked. I calmly said, "you're having a bad day. I'm leaving." And I left.
On one occasion, my father made a provocative statement accompanied by this sarcastic smile, I looked at him, turned, and walked away. That was the last time that I would see him before his multiple mini-strokes. I saw him once afterwards, but he was basically incapacitated. I moved back to Tennessee and was here just over one year when I got the news that he had passed.
Keep your conversations as brief as possible with the narc. I told my narc that my convos were limited to 5 minutes with him because the convo usually took a turn at the 5 minute mark. At 5 minutes(usually 2 or 3 minutes😂) I’d totally stop talking and/or responding.
This is very true. Now at dinner i only ask my parents if they want some more pasta or need the water and that's it. I keep all my energy and my authenticity for my little sister who's a sweet soul and needs someone to talk to - and we try talk as much as we can while they're not here. My parents would take everything (LITERALLY) i say to twist it and use it against me one way or another. Never engaging with them again
I wish I could attach the photo of my kitchen wall. There is not fancy but really big sign: DEEP I remember a few years ago how I spent more that 2.5 hours trying to explain something to my narc husband, next a year later or so and of course he did as he wished to do as if I had never explained to him how much I disagree with what he would like to do. I got my lesson. No more explaining. No more defending. It is just colossal waste of time. Thank you dr Ramani for all your lessons, your wisdom and willingness to share with us. It truly help what you teach.
THE ENDLESS TEXT BATTLES!! You are literally telling me EVERYTHING my narcissistic ex does to me daily... I can't thank you enough for what you do. You have helped me through so much with this person. Narcissistic abuse plus him also having mental issues is the worst combination. Co parenting with a person like this is a dead end... THANK YOU DR. RAMANI❤
Before the video really starts, I just have to say that the art behind her is placed so nicely. Everything is so aesthetically done, kudos to whoever arranged it, as well as the wall and sofa color choice.
I heard someone say a loooong time ago "Don't roll in the mud with pigs. You'll get dirty. And they will like it" I think of that as I'm watching this. Awesome information!
Thank you Dr Ramani. I really needed to hear this today. Dealing with a covert narcissist who doesn't think that's there is anything wrong with the way that they behave... Living a secret life behind my back... Just checked out of a relationship like this. You are so worthy, whole and deserving of a better life... ❤
Just happened yesterday. I decided not to give any respond, I didn't even try to defend myself when she started to blame things on me. I didn't even make any eye-contact. I didn't even show any emotion on my face. The only thing I tried is making sure her gaslighting didn't affect me emotionally. And I can see how confused my mom was. It felt so good that I can finally control myself more! Thank you Dr. Ramani! ❤
Holy cow! So listening to this teaching, I realized the way I defend my self, my soul really! I didn't know I was already going D.E E.P every single day, and yes is so very tiring and vexing and just the bottom of human interaction but most definitely the the survival mode that has kept me sane, safe and (whole) ..
This is all so true! By the time I learned what narcissism was, I had a whole collection of them. Mother, sibling, spouse, friends, in-laws, etc. I wasted so much time and energy defending myself from the crazy, that it quite literally made me crazy. My kids witnessed so much of it, that by the time I tried to break free, I had destroyed their trust in me. All the Narcs I had allowed in my life were all too eager to jump aboard my crazy train and convince my kids that "I was losing it." Luckily with lots of hard work, I was able to break free and pull my kids out of this mess. They don't totally understand narcissism, but they get that "Mom had a rough start in life" and "hurt people attract toxic people." I have a very good close relationship with all of them now. Some of them still maintain distant relationships with these narcs, but I aggressively (but not angrily) shut down any attempt to recruit them as flying monkeys.
If you are defending yourself in a narcissistic relationship, don’t! I tried to nicely defend myself from her lies but she never listened to me, nor would she ever listen to me. It was exactly a “kangaroo court” that she dragged out in front of everyone to make me the bad guy and her the innocent victim. Please, run away and never look back! It is not worth it.
For me, gray rocking is like crawling inside myself to hide myself. It is lonely and miserable but it beats defending myself for his sick entertainment. The superficial conversations are killing me. I hope I am out soon. Thank you for this video!
These videos have become my armor to put on to protect myself from my narcissistic parents. I’m nearly forty with a family of my own and I’ve felt wrong footed around them all my life, forever trying to defend or explain myself with only further defeat and humiliation to show for it. Dr Ramani has given me clarity to see the toxicity of this relationship and methods to refuse engagement. I’m so incredibly grateful.
I am not exaggerating when I say that stumbling on the videos of Dr. Ramani has changed my life. Thank you so much, Dr. Ramani for being generous with your knowledge and explaining things in such a clear, informed, compassionate yet direct, no sugar coating way. I had reached a critical breaking point, my mental and physical health were breaking down. Now, as difficult and painful as it is, I see a way forward. ❤
My nickname my whole life was Can Do until I married a covert, it changed after years to the fixer, was my epiphany today. Well I'm changing it back and leaving that narc out in the cold, where he belongs with such a cold unfeeling heart. I'm getting DEEP with that!
What I found helped me the most was when I realized I was not living with a normal person. It always frustrated me when I said or did something and his action or reaction was completely out of whack. Just out of left field. After one particularly egregious episode of gaslighting, it clicked for me. I was frustrated because I expected his response or his reaction to be what a normal person would do. I started to pay more attention to what he actually did (vs what a normal person would do), and gear my own expectations accordingly. Sometimes I would forget and again be surprised by his behavior, but that would just serve to help me adjust my expectations again. I realized it wasn't about me, it was his problem, and nothing I could do was ever going to wake him up or get him to change. As his irrational and irresponsible behaviors "got to me" less and less, he could see he was losing his grip on my mind. His power over me was slipping away. The more I employed the "DEEP" techniques you describe, the freer I got. Eventually he moved out and it was like a dark cloud was lifted from my home. I still had to stay in contact because of the minor children in the home. When we were forced to move to a different city, the abuse was mainly over the phone, so I was able to just hang up on him! That actually taught him that he would lose his audience if he became abusive. It worked really well! Rather than argue, defend myself, or otherwise engage, I would just hang up the phone and not answer it when he called me back a dozen times. He didn't change who he was, but he stopped abusing me on the phone.
This is gold. Deep is the way you get to control and shut them out of their supply. They don't ever listen, they're not sincere, not authentic, so why bother trying to put things right. You know what you are and what you did, that's all that matters. Cut their supply and they will leave you alone sooner.
D.E.E.P. Seeing it, hearing it, practicing it, over and over (40 times and above, I think is the number of repetitions needed to make deep changes) will be such a useful tool to remind me over and over again to not play games with a narcissist. This reminds me of the book entitled “Games People Play”. Thanks as always 🙏🏼
This is perfect for me today!! I received a baiting letter from my mother 2 days ago. On my daughters bday. I’ve been trying to get my parents to accept my NC choice/need for two years now so I thought I could handle reading her guilt. I also deep down still had hope that maybe there would be evidence of change inside. I hate not having a family. Anyway, I was immediately angry and wanted to respond to confront her untrue accusations and attempt to twist the narrative that I am hurting her and haven’t explained why I won’t talk to her. I just wanted to matter of fact respond with the facts, keep anger out...but I realized pretty quickly that I was sucked in to her crazy making and feeding her desire for a fight(even though she acts like she hates fights). I was highly depressed, angry and hopeless by the end of the next day (yesterday). I was able to put it aside to finish out my daughters bday well with her but I understood that my mother’s intention was probably to try to provoke issue on that important day for us (since she was offended to not be a part of it). Long story to say THANK YOU for this video. I’ve never heard it put in an acronyms like that.
My "mother" sent me an apology letter riddled with all kinds of mushy lovey dovey (creepy!!) sentimental bullshit after publicly humiliating me at a meeting she agreed to in order to resolve these tantrums of hers., something was supposed to mend our "shattered" relationship. I haven't responded and it's almost a year. However, i did set up an experiment of my own where I cried and screamed at the top of my lungs, even to the point of primal screaming when we had company over. I told her that she could see how upset i was at that meeting and that she could see it at that moment. I went over all of the ways she could get help. She sat there, eerily placid and calm, but her eyes were more black than a black hole, and she calmly told me that it was obvious that was in "immense distress" and that it was clear that I wasn't happy living here. Later that night, she gave me a note that read "I want you to know that what happened to day is just a sign of how stressed you are. I want to help but I don't know how." As if everything I said about how she could get help where never mentioned. She came into my room while I was mulling it over to myself about how she's an abuser (which somehow I knew even as a young child but never admitted) and again, her eyes were blackened. "I'm not an abuser. I don't know where you're getting this from." She told me in her most pseudo sympathetic voice. I told her in a firm, but not angry voice "We'll talk about this later." She simply stood at my door with a never ending stare. I got up and closed the door in her face...never heard a mention of it since!
That's what she said lol on a more serious note, I'm going to use this technique next time my sister comes to visit. Thank you Doctor Ramani, as always!
I love this! Last night I messaged a woman in a support group who is in her own personal Hell. She was sure the divorce mediation would get his attention and get him to change, but of course it didn't, and she is miserable. I'm forwarding this to her right now. Fantastic tool! Thank You!
Perfect timing! Got an accusing blaming email yesterday which included their feelings and opinion. Basically outlining my bad behavior and motives and how difficult it's making something for them and how they feel (because of my boundary). Pointing out their superior rational way and my irrational (because they want to act like nothing bad has been done by them) and I should continue to serve/help them as usual, minimizing ignoring decades of abuse to me and our kids.. This morning I was thinking if and how to respond. This is perfect. I will give required information only and not address ANYTHING else they said or accept the judgement/accusation.
Thank you for your inspired and focused video. DEEP is the best way to shorten the abuse cycle. I was just “discarded”by my narc after a second malignant hoover. I can feel the impulse to do all of these things but thanks to your videos I know what I am dealing with. You are saving years of wasted time. The poor narcissists will soon have no one left to abuse if everyone hears about this technique! I wish there was a way to help them! They were victims of abuse and it’s sad to know there is no way they will ever be restored to true authentic selfhood. Whatever suffering they cause others must be pretty much on par with what they themselves have suffered. It’s a tragic loss of an authentic life. I feel profoundly sad for the child they were that was not heard and not seen and monster they became because of it.
Such thoughtfulness, awareness and compassion in your post. I sometimes think of what the narc in my life has suffered, seeming to me that this person cannot reach into and experience what others can with regard to love, empathy, etc. My counselor and I discussed that and she did agree that this person in my life must be suffering; however, she did again reinforce the idea that hurtful behavior to others on the part of the narcissist (even though he is suffering inside) -- that the abuse from the narcissist is never acceptable.
I've had horrible emotionally draining episodes of me attempting to defend myself and explain myself to my mother via email. I've spent hours which equaled a few days agonizing over the "perfect" words to compose in my emails. I've become a lot better while doing the deep technique. I think the most difficult part is to not take it personally, especially when you only have one parent.
Another trait is the "I've been coping with a headache all day but because I didn't want to ruin your day I've been keeping it to myself" The day is not complete unless: 1) the narc has a medical issue to "endure" or 2) the narc has a fight with someone; best day, having both.
Omg. Literally just said this. I appreciate you taking this well. I didn’t know what to expect and it’s been on my mind so much. Every evening I tell myself tomorrow I’ll feel better and I get a full day in. It hasn’t happened. I’m actually somewhat afraid to find out. If it isn’t, I’m a wimp. If it is, I’m out for 2 weeks. Again, thank you. And thank you for the information.
@Mary Carroll I laughed to myself tonight when my narc frantically looked for Zyrtec for all the mosquito bites he acquired on our dog walk and didn't understand how I didn't get bit. Umm bec neither did you. 😄 Every night is another fabricated ailment.
At 2:45; My narc younger brother accused me of not being there at all for my Dear Mother while she was dying. Being there for my young Mother in the final months of her life took everything out of me. These narcs literally do not care about anyone bar themselves!
"You already _are_ a doormat." Wow...that just crystalized my whole experience in a useful, tangible way. Thank you, Dr. Ramani again and again. (And, my screen name refers to the Almighty, not anyone else, LOL.)
"Never defend yourself to a narcissist. They already know you're right. The just want you to go crazy trying to prove it."
wow, I love this!!!!!!
100% Truth!
powerful
Thank you profusely for this liberating insight.
Sadly yes
Some superheroes do not wear a cape. Dr. Ramani is one of them.
Is Dr. Ramani related to Mr. Incredible and Elastigirl?.... Bob Parr (A.K.A. Mr. Incredible), and his wife Helen (A.K.A. Elastigirl), are the world's greatest famous crime-fighting superheroes in Metroville. Always saving lives and battling evil on a daily basis. They do not wear capes! From the 2004 movie, "The Incredibles".
She is very wise and easy to understand. Always something to learn from every video she puts out.
We are lucky to have her with us.
Very much so!!👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@@jaykram7754 Very well said 💜
Oh definitely 😊.
They're never listening TO you; they're listening FOR you to give clues on where they should attack next.
So true
Exactly!!! 👍
I used to wonder why they were always "staring" at me.
Now I know!
Facts!
That's why we shouldn't explain or defend ourselves verbally with Narcissists, it's simply giving them more potential ammo. Give them a look and they can't argue with that.
100%
One of the most painful experiences:
"pouring your heart out" to someone that doesn't care!
Daily. I’ve gone insane writing endless messages in the hopes of getting back compassion. Now he gets to call me crazy.
Exactly!
I thought I was supposed to
"do everything I could" to get HIM to understand!
Why did I only feel "insane" when I was with him?
After ten years, I realized I was
pouring water in a glass with no bottom!
Done! ✅
😨😥
@@roseglasses1 😥
@@teal1010 😥
Having a conversation with a narcissist is like a nightmare you can't wake up from.
That's because the nightmare is in THEIR head, not yours. They live in it, unfortunately for them. We don't have to.
And youre litteraly get nightmares
@@jessicaisabellekirchner6080 nightmares, PTSD, C-PTSD, anxiety. It's enough to spend a lifetime in a psychiatrists office.
Complete with the feeling of being stuck in slow motion.
@@annabeah183 Wow! Spot on!
Observe what they’re saying, but don’t absorb it. Don’t identify with it. Recognise as something that is separate to you and something that belongs to them.
“Observe don’t absorb”- Ross Rosenberg
How does an empathetic person not absorb? With practice!
@@melodyharmony8448 absorb means to take it personally. You should say to yourself “there they go again, treating me like they treat everyone (which is true). Poor thing they are out of control. Perhaps I can be kind and de escalate the situation (IF I have the training) so they can get back to what passes for normal for them. If not poor thing I won’t take your remarks as having to do with me...they have to do with you.” One is still stressed by the situation but the stress is much reduced. And once it really cools down you can tall yourself that yiu handled yourself well while the other person was making an asshole of themself...and you did not. It works but it takes practice. But pride and a sense of personal empowerment comes from it. You do NOT get power over the other person. But realizing you have power over yourself and you remained a lady or a gentleman when they acted like a fool and tried to get yiu to be a bigger fool. If you argue with them or act inappropriately and become the bigger fool then they win. They made a fool of you. If you let them win the fool’s contest, well good. I do not wish to win the fool’s contest and be the bigger fool. 😊 it has taken me years to learn how to do this and much of it I taught myself. Now all these narcissism videos have come out and (deep sigh) they have served to validate me. And to encourage me to keep up the good work. If you remain in a relationship with them you will still suffer sometimes at their hands. But you will not suffer even further because you played into their hands. You can do it too. Love, Bob
@@martialmusic "they tried to get you to be a bigger fool. If you do become the bigger fool then they win"
Well said, thank you! :)
WORD
My therapist told me, "When he starts with his disruption, don't defend yourself. Just look at him and think, this is who he is." It took me a while, but now I get it. Thank you Dr. Ramani for supporting me. I couldn't do it without you. You've changed my life for the better!
One thing that Dr. R does which has been very helpful is that she says the same things, which are really pretty simple, over and over again in slightly different ways. Dealing with a narc is not intuitive. They don't react like healthy people. It takes a while - it's taking me a while - to slowly learn the rules of the game. And it will always be the narc's rules when you play with them, they won't (can't) have it any other way. Dr. R repeatedly lays out those same basic principles with slightly different insights each week. So now I can listen to one of Dr R's videos and reflect on specific situations and judge if my reaction was helpful or harmful. The more I listen to her the more the fog starts to clear on an absolutely baffling and frustrating relationship, and the faster I can recognize a developing situation and start to get ahead of it. It seems the narc has powerful weapons but they are actually few in number and easy to recognize once you know them.
I would look at him and think, OMG, I married a child
Go Paula Go! We had nowhere to turn and she gives us directions.... New fuels!
@@brimstone33 YES, (Conditioning) !!! I constantly repeat to others WATCH Dr Ramani over and over. She tells you the same thing to drill it in.
@@brimstone33 Yes, that what they are. If they are dumb it is their point in evolution, or if they play dumb that's not healthy
This means you cannot talk to them at all ever. Moved on and learned lessons. Freedom to be myself.
That's what it all boils down to. Great comment!
Hmmm, harsh reality
Amen sister!
So true!
Spot on!👏🏽
They're like invisible black holes swallowing and destroying nice people near by them...
Wow..hahah so right on..
@@JasonKale 😊
Yes and no.... Im pretty sure my narcissist was abused as a child and is very insecure for alot of different reasons.
@@heatherg5854 Tortured children becoming torturers when they're grown up. But they don't understand that it's not fair to take revenge their past from innocent people around them...
Try to cheer them up and live to regret it, what a thing.....
Don't Defend. Don't Explain. Don't Engage. Don't Personalize. Being Authentic is hard when you know people are using it against you. But its not forever! Others will see you and the difference in communication and the ability to be you will be night and day! Don't ignore the red flags.
🙌🏻💯
Same happened with me
I think the narcissist must feel very humiliated when they can't rattle you or get you to react anymore. What else do they have when they lose that power over you.
Thank God we have blocking tools on our phones and social media sites.
Oh that feeling of eternal misunderstanding... This took years from my life explaining... And trying to explain everything to a black hole...
Me, too!
It's like trying to soak up water (aka explaining a problem / feeling) with a sponge (aka a narcissistic) that's already fully saturated with its own liquid (aka inability to comprehend any other point of view but their own).
What happens if you try? The original water (aka problem / feelings) is still there, but now you've got even MORE water all over the floor because the soaking sponge (aka narc) has been squeezed. Pointless!
Being undiagnosed autistic with a narc partner was a really dark and confusing time in my life. Glad I got out. Hope you are all ok guys xxxx
@@KatieM786 That must have been absolutely horrendous. You are so brave and strong!
@@ladybaabaa3294 Thank you 💜💕 It's only looking back that I realise the shell of myself I had become at the end. He was dissatisfied with everything and I was like "look you clearly don't even like me as a person anymore so why are we bothering here?". The eventual discard was spectacular and timed for the biggest hurt and disruption in my life. Then he wanted to be friends! *Friends!!!!!!* I can't repeat what I told him lol xx
I don't need the deep technique, I need the "don't start laughing" technique. It's just, ever since I've learned about narcissism and what makes it characteristic, I just can't stop myself from bursting into tears from laughing so hard when they go into narc mode. It's like they all follow a manual or a narc skript and they're so stuck in it that I can't help but laugh like an idiot. I was raised thinking that every single one of us is absolutely unique and then they're just all the same, LITERALLY!!!
Haha i laugh at narcs too now. It makes them so uncomfortable which then makes me giggle more. But this deep technique is definitely useful when you cant just laugh em off.
I haven’t yet got to this stage of immunity. My amygdala hijacks me every time !
The Problem is the acompaigning sadness, when it is your mother.
Yes, I too have to keep myself from laughing at him sometimes. But it also makes me feel like I'm just as horrible as he is when I show no empathy. It's odd. I sometimes have had to ask myself if I'm the narc when I want to tell him to "stop" or "I've heard this before" or "do we have to talk about this AGAIN (and I can no longer hide the sarcasm) " or "I don't have time for this because I have to get ready for work". Does this make sense?
I also have my laughing fits. My ex cheated on me so much and tried to justify it with, "Whenever you were distant (busy) I looked for comfort somewhere else and I did sleep with other people. But whenever things were going fine I didn't do anything with anyone else (lie). I just wanted you to know that." LMAO are you serious? These narcs actually believe this stuff and think that is justified and that they're saints. I don't even pity them anymore. No contact is the only way.
Living with a narcissist is like "living in an eternal kangaroo court" OMG so brilliant!
I liked that part too.
Kangaroo court with no due process.
I remember a particular argument where I said "excuse me for trying to defend myself." My mom turned to me and said, "YOU have no defense." I never tried to talk to her again.
I am sorry 😞Thankful for your good instincts but I hopefully you realise you have a defense and you are important and deserve to be defended.
I'm sorry you went thru that growing up. I'm so glad we have folks like Dr. R to help us recognize, acknowledge, accept and heal😇
@@bobbiedzarate 💜💜💜
Horrible but sure shows their God complex of judge jury executioner.
I also was raised by a narcissistic mom, stay strong
As I watch dr.Ramani’s videos I realize I made so many mistakes and wasted so much energy while going nuts trying to explain and trying to defend myself in my almost 7 year relationship with my ex narcissist . It’s all so clear now...I was not crazy ! 1 month and counting the blessings ! 🙏
Document every situation of love bombing. If he tries to text, call, leave gifts at your house. If it is known no contact you can file for an emergency protective order and get a final protective order in court with your documented evidence. That's what I'm doing right now.
Congratulations on getting your life back 👏😊🥳 it's so much better
Wishing you peace.
I put up with it for my children to keep their dad. Now they are married and have children. You can imagine the length of my nightmare!!
I plan to divorce very soon and spend my left years of my life in healthy, peaceful environment, or in solitude.
@@philima I kept saying to myself I need my life back, I am finally at the stage to take it back now after the second hoover, neither worked and I have not seen him in two months, I just need him to stop texting me.
If I had known this years ago it would have saved me so much time, energy and pain. Sigh.
Least you know, there's got to be more out there who don't, than do! 🙏🙋
AMEN to that! I feel like my whole life has been ruined by continuous stream of narcissistic abusers, and I didn’t get it until recently.
Is never to late to fight for our mental health friend. ⚘
30 years of trying to figure him out. Blaming his traumatic childhood and father issues. Trying to better myself. 60, no job, many miles away from family, and no support system.
Your videos are filling my soul with validation. Thank you!
35 years. 60 years old. Please build your support team to exit safely.
I’m in 16 years and so scared to still be stuck at your age. It’s my worst fear
@@ladypeace8912 well my best advice is to make a plan and execute. I didn’t have a real exit plan. Just making that now. Wishing you the best!
@@ladypeace8912it's a realistic fear. I was stuck in my narc family (parents and brother) until now, at 57. It's seems so hard to get out, but trust me, once you're doing it, it's not as horrible as you anticipated it to be. You are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for. That's what they have done to you. But your mind will heal fast, once it gets the opportunity. It's ready.
I wish you courage and strength, and many years full of love and respect. You deserve it.
This is my exact experience.
"Its not because you aren't good enough, it's because they're treating you badly." Thank you Dr Ramani. I kept engaging for decades with my mother and her flying monkeys, giving them opportunities to treat me with contempt. Life is so much better with only people who reciprocate love and appreciation. I grieve for the people who used to love me in return but were turned against me by slander, but they are no longer the loving ones they were. They are different, practising their cruelty, so I'm not begging any more.
Ramani is a national treasure
International! 🙌🏽
10:30 it took me a long time to realize that narcissism is about superficiality and being so egoistic and insecure that making everyone else around them feel bad is sort of par for the course
So true! A narc's insecurities are mind boggling. You cannot reason with or defend yourself when dealing with a narc. You are wasting your time and energy.
DEEP: Don't Defend, Explain, Engage, and Personalize. Thanks Doctor Ramani.
Yup, I used to defend myself, try to explain so he could understand me and why I was hurt by his behaviours. I used to engage so we could sort out issues and it was personalised because our relationship was so important to me, I wanted us to resolve and learn from our fights. In the end, I was blamed for my reactions. He discarded me because he was “scared of my reactions” and that I “loved to argue”. Better yet, if we could have argued in his language “he would win and not me”. It was never about winning - for me, it was what I thought was for love.
Crazy making!
GASLIGHT!!!!!!!
We are the same points of view
Nope, every conversation for these people is about winning. Life is a competition for them.
Only now i know this DEEP after i cried so much believing all d mistakes issues came from me
This is very tough to learn, but essential. Beware when you’re tired, just got up, going to bed-you can get caught of guard and suddenly you’re defending in court.
Soooo true. I've been doing extremely well handling my pathologically narcissistic mother throughout the past year, and found myself defending when caught off guard one morning. Mere seconds later, I realized I'd done so retrospectively and was beyond frustrated. Suffice to say, I learnt this lesson at that very moment, and am even more cautious now with EVERY communicative exchange.
This channel is a gold mine. Once you gain clarity on narcissistic patterns, you realise that you are the power because you have what they need and they are dependent on it. You can actually find observing their behaviours quite amusing. But more often it's just sad, especially, if they are someone you used to respect.
I couldn’t agree with you more
Good points made in your post.
Also, where you wrote, "But more often it's just sad, especially, if they are someone you used to respect." Ah, yes.
My "aha moment," realizing how I let myself be duped while I also RESPECTED and TRUSTED him -- "aha" and then "oh, no" and "why?" -- thinking on those and then making me very sad and sometimes angry.
“ used to” being the operative words.
Grey rocking doesn’t work on my narc it just escalates the situation because he’d rather fight than deal with my peace & tranquility
Yeah they get mad, and then mental abuse come to physical in worst cases, the worst thing about mental abuse is you can’t show it to other people that atleast they can believe it, It’s just the mental thing going on all over the place,
My brother was the same. I tried to ignore his hours of rage outburst, but that seemed to make him angrier and more physical
Also experiencing this one! They want a reaction. Any reaction. And the anger escalates until they can feed off of your reaction. No reactions means there is nothing to feed.
Please do what you can to be safe, Holly.
🙏♥️
Holly, while I don't know you or your details, this sounds all too familiar to me, and it's setting off alarm bells in my head. Someone who escalates like that gets off on the escalation and the fight and "winning." Hurting you (possibly just emotionally now, but don't count on it staying at that level) makes him feel in control and powerful. It won't stop. It will likely get worse. Power over you may be his drug of choice, and if that's true he'll need more to feed the habit as time passes. You may not be safe.
This is how ive been raised, this is the past 55 years of my life!!!!
Hang in there, Jill
I've seen more than one supportive comment from you, so I know you're a good egg.
Stay Strong 💪
Me too. It's only been the last couple of years that I've actually started to see it for what it is... Out of my control
@@eddierayvanlynch6133 wishing for a good life for us! With much healing xo
😢💪💞
Survivor, rock on! Like your hat,.my last name is Xmas!
“An eternal misunderstanding because they lack self-awareness capabilities.” YES. I mean it’s like Groundhog Day the nightmare
That statement about how grey rocking is hard because it’s a constant inauthentic state was gold for me! It’s exactly how I feel and tried to express. It is almost just as taxing as interacting. I stick to it but it feels so foreign and at times like I am losing who I am. But having close friends is absolutely key. Thank you for this validation
I agree. I'm autistic and it feels so loathsome.
@@katherinebaldwin2308 Never seen anyone else acknowledge this before but I was thinking the same thing - this must be so much harder for autists!
I have had to repeat the mantra of don’t defend and don’t explain to myself while he is ranting and cursing at me. It was so hard to hold my tongue back. Then when I didn’t engage at all, he hit me a few times as if he was frustrated that he didn’t get a reaction. I’m still stuck here
My mom is a grandiose narcissist. When I was younger and tired of dealing with her devaluing phases, I’d just stare at her as she was calling me names and accusing me of doing and feeling things I never did. I was grey rocking and didn’t even know.
That made her even more furious. She used to tell me to stop staring her with my “snake eyes”
This makes so much sense. No wonder why they suck the life and engery out of you.😔
We make sense, they don't, shake their craziness on us, duck!
That's exactly what they do, & they know it too😒... Much peace & Blessing to you💞
Don't Defend, Explain, Engage, Personalise
Deep = the authentic person's response to the narc's DARVO encompassing Deny, Attack and Reverse Victim Offender.
Thank you Dr Ramani 🙏💖
Your comment 🔥🔥... Can you please help me understand RVO part in DARVO?
@@mantisno9201Dr. Ramani has a video on it.
@@fighttheevilrobots3417 cool will check it out
@@mantisno9201 The narc switches the roles of who is the offender and who is the victim. While the narc is the offender in reality, s/he will try to portray the situation as if the narc is the victim, and the victim in reality is the offender.
@@19ghost73 damn bro you just twisted my mind there for a minute and it all makes sense. 🤔😂 Thanks So in short the Narcissist is a victim in a sense?
I swear Dr. Ramani, Melania Tonia Evans, Ross Rosenberg, Lisa Romano and others I am sorry I didn’t get to are like The Avengers of Narcissistic Abuse Recovery.
🎯
We're lucky to be able to get this training from them, too
GRANNON!
SAM VAKNIN!
@@svetlanaleonova590 Isn’t he a Narcissist? In that case, may as well say HG Tudor too
Hi sugar, hope your keeping well from French Canada 🇨🇦!
I use this online all the time. They try to define me and I say "I know who I am...say whatever you want"
I now go by "If that's who you are, then that's YOU" attitude 🤭
This mantra helps me ensure I keep on following the DEEP Technique. Their words are meaningless to me now. They can say all hurtful stuff and I can still go on my day just fine.
Lots of high-likely narcissistic people in the workplace. I'm starting to love my current job. I'm 7 months in and I want to stay with this company for the next 5 years or so.
Thank you for everything. I can now coexist with these people and not break down and cry.
I feel like I have wasted so much time and energy, especially now that I know that for almost two years, I've been doing the equivalent of arguing with a box of rocks
Ha ha, it's like we'd need a stick of dynamite to move their thinking! Kaboom, mine gets! He's learning the hard, I'm gonna ruffle your rocks you piss me off so much, way! If I ever cook for him again (been a decade, only at Xmas and he'd better stay out of my kitchen) I'll say "Hay pile of rocks, which hot 🔥 spice you want added so you can taste something?"
Try 14 yrs😭🙅♀️🤦🏻♀️
It’s been so hard getting over the devaluing and discarding stage for me.
Same here ! Devastating !
It's horrible. Just remember that you ARE valuable and worth your weight in gold! (hugs)
@@judythorsgaard4388 Thanks and right back at you !
You will get there and you will be stronger because of it. Big loves xxx
It's hard, because you still hear their words ringing in your head. Once you start to hear Dr Ramani's words, and understand the truth, you will have peace.
Oh boy … I did this and I am ashamed. My son married a covert Narc and I bought into it hook line and sinker for awhile also. Then recently he accused me of a laundry list of things I did NOT do and I got so defensive - it got ugly , the call ended and I haven’t heard a peep from him I am 72 and been supportive of him for 49 years. Than this person comes along and snap, just like that he is gone. I am thankful he shares custody of my granddaughter and that her mother has expressed that she needs me in her life and will let me visit with her - it is the worst thing I have ever experienced and never met anyone like his wife before. She is the poster child of a narcissist- she love bombed him and me.. and slowly dismissed me after I did so much for her , her kids and them as a couple. It is hard to be done. But your videos are helping a lot.. I am stamping DEEP on my forehead … thank you
"...An eternal misunderstanding" Well said, Dr. Ramani.
Until I went into therapy and uncovered the narcissistic abuse my mother dished out all my life, you could have powered a small city on the energy I wasted on her defending and explaining myself 😢 Thank you Dr Ramani for this short, to the point and extremely useful video
You are talking to someone who is not listening. No understanding.
So true.
I used to get invalidated with “it’s not that deep” all the time so the deep technique takes on a whole new meaning for me
This is so powerful. Going through so much at the moment, with work, with ex, with friends. I'm gonna go deep starting today.
I wish I knew this as a child. My mother accused me of terrible things on a regular basis and defending myself caused her to harm me emotionally and physically. Was terrible and scary.
So sorry you experienced this. 💔💔💔
💙
I didn't start defending myself until I got into my teens and was forced to live with my "mother". Our society is toxic with it's whole mantra of "people will accept you for who you are if you just explain and be true to yourself with them" and "everyone has good in them somewhere!!" nonsense.
Keeping silent has been my best safety.
Love this community of survivor's #family
Survivors Support Group!!!
We elect the one whose alias is _Dr. Spencer Reid_ as our president😅👌🏾
OK I changed my mind... this is one of your best ones ever! Thank you for being here for me every day.
Every time I start to think I could maybe have a relationship with my narc mom, I always start defending, explaining, and engaging because she tries everything to get any kind of rise out of me. Then I remember who TF I am and don’t need to do that anymore :)
So many times he would turn a little accidental error if mine into an opportunity to berate me, insult me, call me insane, sick , stupid, threaten to abandon me ...and made me believe I was evil, mean, incompetent and not trustworthy. Thanks, your videos helped me restore a bit of serenity and the ability to trust myself again.
Thankyou so much Dr.Ramani. I have been out of the relationship for 4 months now and have been following your advice. You have empowered me and made me feel strong again. The old me is back and I love her. I am confident, and free. You are a treasure for us all. 🌟
Nice tuxedo cat, me too, I'm addicted to them!
@@joseenoel8093 Phoebe is a Norwegian Forest Cat. She gives me sanity in this crazy world.
Thank you so much for this. It has saved my life and sanity. I’ve seen your videos and applied them to the situation in my life. I used DEEP it was like watching a playbook. I could call the next play and just sit and watch. Took away my guilt gave me and my family boundaries, stability. You know it’s a game and I’m not playing it. It was just really amazing using this seeing it work and then the harsh reality of this person is a narcissist. It’s a game folks don’t play.
I survived adolescence as a grey rock. I became one long before I knew what one was. I was near completely shut down and void. I made a promise to myself that some day I would be free to shine: have friends, an emotional life, live to speak my truth.
Me too...not quite at wish fulfillment yet though. i hope you are.
No. I live on eggshells, any person or gig could be another coercive control. And the mobbing continues.
You were a wise and strong adolescent, WtW! I hope you're feeling the freedom now.
I LOVE THIS! Lots of these kind of people out there so, I have to keep watching this segment to allow it to sink in. Otherwise the Narcissistic people will keep us in an ETERNAL KANGAROO COURT. GO DEEP! Don't DEFEND! Don't EXPLAIN! Don't ENGAGE! Don't PERSONALIZE! GO DEEP! GO DEEP! GO DEEP!
I visit this video from time to time to remind myself not to defend, engage, explain, nor personalize. I'm grateful for you Dr. Ramani. You helped me make it out of an emotionally abusive relationship. I'm finally divorced and, for the most part, free from the vulnerable narcissist. By the way, I love your podcast.
Nobel prize material. God bless Dr. Ramani.
I agree with your opinion on grey-rocking. It's kind of being insincere about what you may be feeling. But it's kind of like ducking when a fist is coming at your face. Necessary!
It's CHOOSING what you convey. Since they use your own words, responses and emotional state against you, it is withholding that from them. Learning to "veil" one's facial expressions, means they can't tell what you're thinking. It gives them less to work with.
Your DEEP technique is brilliant dr Ramani. Thank you so much 😊 God bless you❤
I go DEEP-ER, Exit and Run!
Hehe yes!!
Wish I could afford living alone
Haha!
Hell yeah 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
@Mc Allen City Corruption lollll I agree!!!!!! 💯💯💯 #runforestrun
Wow, why didn't I now knew this years ago, suffering for more than 20 years leading into anxiety and panic disorders. Dr. Ramani, you're given me what I exactly need. Thank you
Something to add to your narrative: endlessly talking about your narcissistic relationship to everybody you know.
A beautiful friend is married (now divorcing) a textbook first-class narcissist. For years her friends heard her stories about “what he did this time.” Eventually, I got bored of the on-going saga with no conclusion. Eventually, I got irritated at her apparent weakness and inability to punch back. Still, the stories kept coming over-and-over ad nauseum ... it became her identity! Thank God it’s all changing now ... I hope! Divorcing. Don’t make living with a narcissist your identity. Don’t become a chronic complainer.
LOL you clearly dont understand the challenge here. so stop talking about it
@@redefinedliving5974 Not sure if your LOL comment was directed toward me ... However, "understanding" is an interesting concept. Two people can hear the same statement or view the same event; and have different "understandings." It happens all the time, and that's why we have different Political ideologies and Parties (for example).
Your "command" that if person does not have YOUR "understanding" they cease any discussion, is a totalitarian statement: this is the thinking and directive of the Neo-Marxist "cancel culture." You don't agree? So, you want to shut the person down. Take a look at our Constitution some time, i.e., the First amendment.
@A M Well, sure if YOU say so ... but why do you fear other ideas or opinions? Psychology is not a religion ... Sad!
I re-read my 5-months old post and the update is just wonderful! My dear friend is THRIVING ... SHE GOT out of the marriage. She has an awesome new job and is full of energy and enthusiasm. She even looks better! Funnily enough, when she does relate a "narcissist story" it's usually with a smile on her face. A person CAN escape the gulag.
@A M Thanks for a good, thoughtful and valid response ... and you're right! (Usually people just yell at me or call me names.)
I have definitely seen people continue to associate with the same sort of person over-and-over ... until they realize what's happening. Until they get to the "eureka" moment it can be an endless dilemma.
Be Well ... and I hope people who are living this nightmare find peace (and a little prosperity too).
@A M Just so that validation of one's mistreatment doesn't become your primary identity. You might end up being like Harry and Megan!
As I listen I feel like you are putting language to my reality. So helpful. Thank you.
don't DEEP: defend, explain, engage, and personalize. . . "to explain. . . and then have it ignored, is extremely invalidating" (5:14). . . "in the long term, remaining in any kind of narcissistic relationship is not good for your health" (6:24). . . "emotional abuse is not okay. never." (8:12)
Hi, Dr. Ramini
I say speak up for yourself no matter if the person hears it or not. It's about you validating your own feelings and processing the issue verbally. Everything shouldn't be in a narcissist power. I don't care if you are alone it gives you pride to vouch for your needs despite the other person's reaction and there is no need to personalize anything after you say it. I choose peace before anything even if it's done alone. There are too many social groups out here to be bothered with toxic folks go find them. My mental health matters to me too much. Narcisstic people don't have anymore power than any one else on this planet. Grayrock is perfect, so you don't have to go to jail. Speaking up has given me more good than bad situations. They can't gaslight if you tell truth about the behavior. The lies that they tell ain't my business. Loll!
I went to my elderly father's physical therapy session to be supportive to him. (He was a narcissist, but I didn't know that at the time.) He yelled at me, "you're a worthless piece of shit!" and the physical therapist looked shocked. I calmly said, "you're having a bad day. I'm leaving." And I left.
The things that come out of their mouths😳
Next time he can go alone!
I am sorry to hear your father was horrible to you ..mine was similar when he died it was a relief
Sorry your dad was like mine!
I am sorry your father said that to you.
On one occasion, my father made a provocative statement accompanied by this sarcastic smile, I looked at him, turned, and walked away. That was the last time that I would see him before his multiple mini-strokes. I saw him once afterwards, but he was basically incapacitated. I moved back to Tennessee and was here just over one year when I got the news that he had passed.
Keep your conversations as brief as possible with the narc. I told my narc that my convos were limited to 5 minutes with him because the convo usually took a turn at the 5 minute mark. At 5 minutes(usually 2 or 3 minutes😂) I’d totally stop talking and/or responding.
LOL!!! I’ll do that next time. I’ll bring a buzzer
@@CL-fs3kt 😂try it. Trust me, a convo with the narc goes left in less than 5 minutes.
This is very true. Now at dinner i only ask my parents if they want some more pasta or need the water and that's it. I keep all my energy and my authenticity for my little sister who's a sweet soul and needs someone to talk to - and we try talk as much as we can while they're not here. My parents would take everything (LITERALLY) i say to twist it and use it against me one way or another. Never engaging with them again
I hardly ever do any of the talking with my narc Mother. I gave up on that quite awhile ago.
Haha, that is so great. He must find that incredibly frustrating.
I wish I could attach the photo of my kitchen wall. There is not fancy but really big sign: DEEP
I remember a few years ago how I spent more that 2.5 hours trying to explain something to my narc husband, next a year later or so and of course he did as he wished to do as if I had never explained to him how much I disagree with what he would like to do. I got my lesson. No more explaining. No more defending. It is just colossal waste of time.
Thank you dr Ramani for all your lessons, your wisdom and willingness to share with us. It truly help what you teach.
THE ENDLESS TEXT BATTLES!! You are literally telling me EVERYTHING my narcissistic ex does to me daily... I can't thank you enough for what you do. You have helped me through so much with this person. Narcissistic abuse plus him also having mental issues is the worst combination. Co parenting with a person like this is a dead end... THANK YOU DR. RAMANI❤
Before the video really starts, I just have to say that the art behind her is placed so nicely. Everything is so aesthetically done, kudos to whoever arranged it, as well as the wall and sofa color choice.
I heard someone say a loooong time ago "Don't roll in the mud with pigs. You'll get dirty. And they will like it" I think of that as I'm watching this. Awesome information!
Thank you Dr Ramani. I really needed to hear this today. Dealing with a covert narcissist who doesn't think that's there is anything wrong with the way that they behave... Living a secret life behind my back... Just checked out of a relationship like this. You are so worthy, whole and deserving of a better life... ❤
Just happened yesterday.
I decided not to give any respond, I didn't even try to defend myself when she started to blame things on me. I didn't even make any eye-contact. I didn't even show any emotion on my face. The only thing I tried is making sure her gaslighting didn't affect me emotionally. And I can see how confused my mom was.
It felt so good that I can finally control myself more!
Thank you Dr. Ramani! ❤
Holy cow! So listening to this teaching, I realized the way I defend my self, my soul really! I didn't know I was already going D.E E.P every single day, and yes is so very tiring and vexing and just the bottom of human interaction but most definitely the the survival mode that has kept me sane, safe and (whole) ..
I tried gray rock for a year - I couldn't handle the cognitive dissonance. I couldn't get the emotional distance to make it worth it.
No contact is better than grey rocking for me. The relationship just doesn't make sense anymore when you grey rock. I feel empty.
This is all so true! By the time I learned what narcissism was, I had a whole collection of them. Mother, sibling, spouse, friends, in-laws, etc. I wasted so much time and energy defending myself from the crazy, that it quite literally made me crazy. My kids witnessed so much of it, that by the time I tried to break free, I had destroyed their trust in me. All the Narcs I had allowed in my life were all too eager to jump aboard my crazy train and convince my kids that "I was losing it." Luckily with lots of hard work, I was able to break free and pull my kids out of this mess. They don't totally understand narcissism, but they get that "Mom had a rough start in life" and "hurt people attract toxic people." I have a very good close relationship with all of them now. Some of them still maintain distant relationships with these narcs, but I aggressively (but not angrily) shut down any attempt to recruit them as flying monkeys.
You have done so much work on yourself. So glad your kids are back in your life. All the best!
Excellent Advice Dr Ramani 👍 I now see what I have been doing Wrong all along. I am Now Going DEEP. Thank you for being here for Us. ❤️
If you are defending yourself in a narcissistic relationship, don’t! I tried to nicely defend myself from her lies but she never listened to me, nor would she ever listen to me. It was exactly a “kangaroo court” that she dragged out in front of everyone to make me the bad guy and her the innocent victim. Please, run away and never look back! It is not worth it.
Exactly, I relate to this.
For me, gray rocking is like crawling inside myself to hide myself. It is lonely and miserable but it beats defending myself for his sick entertainment. The superficial conversations are killing me. I hope I am out soon. Thank you for this video!
I hope you got into a better situation.
You are so right about explaining. When I do that I feel like I get stuck in an explicit mindset that is hard to shake.
These videos have become my armor to put on to protect myself from my narcissistic parents. I’m nearly forty with a family of my own and I’ve felt wrong footed around them all my life, forever trying to defend or explain myself with only further defeat and humiliation to show for it.
Dr Ramani has given me clarity to see the toxicity of this relationship and methods to refuse engagement. I’m so incredibly grateful.
I am not exaggerating when I say that stumbling on the videos of Dr. Ramani has changed my life. Thank you so much, Dr. Ramani for being generous with your knowledge and explaining things in such a clear, informed, compassionate yet direct, no sugar coating way. I had reached a critical breaking point, my mental and physical health were breaking down. Now, as difficult and painful as it is, I see a way forward. ❤
My nickname my whole life was Can Do until I married a covert, it changed after years to the fixer, was my epiphany today. Well I'm changing it back and leaving that narc out in the cold, where he belongs with such a cold unfeeling heart. I'm getting DEEP with that!
What I found helped me the most was when I realized I was not living with a normal person. It always frustrated me when I said or did something and his action or reaction was completely out of whack. Just out of left field. After one particularly egregious episode of gaslighting, it clicked for me. I was frustrated because I expected his response or his reaction to be what a normal person would do. I started to pay more attention to what he actually did (vs what a normal person would do), and gear my own expectations accordingly. Sometimes I would forget and again be surprised by his behavior, but that would just serve to help me adjust my expectations again. I realized it wasn't about me, it was his problem, and nothing I could do was ever going to wake him up or get him to change.
As his irrational and irresponsible behaviors "got to me" less and less, he could see he was losing his grip on my mind. His power over me was slipping away. The more I employed the "DEEP" techniques you describe, the freer I got. Eventually he moved out and it was like a dark cloud was lifted from my home. I still had to stay in contact because of the minor children in the home. When we were forced to move to a different city, the abuse was mainly over the phone, so I was able to just hang up on him! That actually taught him that he would lose his audience if he became abusive. It worked really well! Rather than argue, defend myself, or otherwise engage, I would just hang up the phone and not answer it when he called me back a dozen times. He didn't change who he was, but he stopped abusing me on the phone.
Love your videos! Could you do role plays? It would be very helpful to see an example of DEEP.
This is gold. Deep is the way you get to control and shut them out of their supply. They don't ever listen, they're not sincere, not authentic, so why bother trying to put things right. You know what you are and what you did, that's all that matters. Cut their supply and they will leave you alone sooner.
D.E.E.P. Seeing it, hearing it, practicing it, over and over (40 times and above, I think is the number of repetitions needed to make deep changes) will be such a useful tool to remind me over and over again to not play games with a narcissist. This reminds me of the book entitled “Games People Play”. Thanks as always 🙏🏼
Just now looked that book up. Thanks
That is a brilliant book, I own it and it's great! Totally recommend!
This lady is a God sent
This is perfect for me today!! I received a baiting letter from my mother 2 days ago. On my daughters bday. I’ve been trying to get my parents to accept my NC choice/need for two years now so I thought I could handle reading her guilt. I also deep down still had hope that maybe there would be evidence of change inside. I hate not having a family. Anyway, I was immediately angry and wanted to respond to confront her untrue accusations and attempt to twist the narrative that I am hurting her and haven’t explained why I won’t talk to her. I just wanted to matter of fact respond with the facts, keep anger out...but I realized pretty quickly that I was sucked in to her crazy making and feeding her desire for a fight(even though she acts like she hates fights). I was highly depressed, angry and hopeless by the end of the next day (yesterday). I was able to put it aside to finish out my daughters bday well with her but I understood that my mother’s intention was probably to try to provoke issue on that important day for us (since she was offended to not be a part of it). Long story to say THANK YOU for this video. I’ve never heard it put in an acronyms like that.
Good job keeping your cool. I hope your daughter learns from the grace you show.
Stay Strong 💪
@@eddierayvanlynch6133 Thank you for your kind and supportive words! They add strength to the journey :)
My "mother" sent me an apology letter riddled with all kinds of mushy lovey dovey (creepy!!) sentimental bullshit after publicly humiliating me at a meeting she agreed to in order to resolve these tantrums of hers., something was supposed to mend our "shattered" relationship. I haven't responded and it's almost a year. However, i did set up an experiment of my own where I cried and screamed at the top of my lungs, even to the point of primal screaming when we had company over. I told her that she could see how upset i was at that meeting and that she could see it at that moment. I went over all of the ways she could get help. She sat there, eerily placid and calm, but her eyes were more black than a black hole, and she calmly told me that it was obvious that was in "immense distress" and that it was clear that I wasn't happy living here.
Later that night, she gave me a note that read "I want you to know that what happened to day is just a sign of how stressed you are. I want to help but I don't know how." As if everything I said about how she could get help where never mentioned. She came into my room while I was mulling it over to myself about how she's an abuser (which somehow I knew even as a young child but never admitted) and again, her eyes were blackened. "I'm not an abuser. I don't know where you're getting this from." She told me in her most pseudo sympathetic voice. I told her in a firm, but not angry voice "We'll talk about this later." She simply stood at my door with a never ending stare. I got up and closed the door in her face...never heard a mention of it since!
just dropping by for a refill - thank you from the bottom of my heart
This is one of my favorite topic and I really got my pen and paper. Thanks Doc 🙏
Breathe DEEP-ly! Thank you! 💞🌸😊
That's what she said lol on a more serious note, I'm going to use this technique next time my sister comes to visit. Thank you Doctor Ramani, as always!
You are funny
4:00 is very important. Since theyre not capable of self reflection, they think the same for you and that you must be jealous of them
They can't figure it out, surprise, we love ourselves lots, keep your low self-esteem to yourself!
Brilliant. Many notes from this video. You are like a Jedi. 🙏🏽
I love this! Last night I messaged a woman in a support group who is in her own personal Hell. She was sure the divorce mediation would get his attention and get him to change, but of course it didn't, and she is miserable. I'm forwarding this to her right now. Fantastic tool! Thank You!
I'm trying to find some good support groups online. Anywhere you could recommend I start at?
Perfect timing! Got an accusing blaming email yesterday which included their feelings and opinion. Basically outlining my bad behavior and motives and how difficult it's making something for them and how they feel (because of my boundary). Pointing out their superior rational way and my irrational (because they want to act like nothing bad has been done by them) and I should continue to serve/help them as usual, minimizing ignoring decades of abuse to me and our kids.. This morning I was thinking if and how to respond. This is perfect. I will give required information only and not address ANYTHING else they said or accept the judgement/accusation.
You know your truth and you don't need to accept their interpretation of "said" version of events.
Thank you for your inspired and focused video. DEEP is the best way to shorten the abuse cycle. I was just “discarded”by my narc after a second malignant hoover. I can feel the impulse to do all of these things but thanks to your videos I know what I am dealing with. You are saving years of wasted time. The poor narcissists will soon have no one left to abuse if everyone hears about this technique!
I wish there was a way to help them! They were victims of abuse and it’s sad to know there is no way they will ever be restored to true authentic selfhood. Whatever suffering they cause others must be pretty much on par with what they themselves have suffered. It’s a tragic loss of an authentic life. I feel profoundly sad for the child they were that was not heard and not seen and monster they became because of it.
Such thoughtfulness, awareness and compassion in your post.
I sometimes think of what the narc in my life has suffered, seeming to me that this person cannot reach into and experience what others can with regard to love, empathy, etc. My counselor and I discussed that and she did agree that this person in my life must be suffering; however, she did again reinforce the idea that hurtful behavior to others on the part of the narcissist (even though he is suffering inside) -- that the abuse from the narcissist is never acceptable.
I've had horrible emotionally draining episodes of me attempting to defend myself and explain myself to my mother via email. I've spent hours which equaled a few days agonizing over the "perfect" words to compose in my emails. I've become a lot better while doing the deep technique. I think the most difficult part is to not take it personally, especially when you only have one parent.
Another trait is the "I've been coping with a headache all day but because I didn't want to ruin your day I've been keeping it to myself" The day is not complete unless: 1) the narc has a medical issue to "endure" or 2) the narc has a fight with someone; best day, having both.
Omg. Literally just said this. I appreciate you taking this well. I didn’t know what to expect and it’s been on my mind so much. Every evening I tell myself tomorrow I’ll feel better and I get a full day in. It hasn’t happened. I’m actually somewhat afraid to find out. If it isn’t, I’m a wimp. If it is, I’m out for 2 weeks. Again, thank you. And thank you for the information.
💯! There's always SOMETHING.
@@woo226 always.
A "sudden" headache and confrontation with someone:
My "frienemies" day, every day!
@Mary Carroll I laughed to myself tonight when my narc frantically looked for Zyrtec for all the mosquito bites he acquired on our dog walk and didn't understand how I didn't get bit. Umm bec neither did you. 😄 Every night is another fabricated ailment.
At 2:45; My narc younger brother accused me of not being there at all for my Dear Mother while she was dying. Being there for my young Mother in the final months of her life took everything out of me. These narcs literally do not care about anyone bar themselves!
"You already _are_ a doormat." Wow...that just crystalized my whole experience in a useful, tangible way. Thank you, Dr. Ramani again and again. (And, my screen name refers to the Almighty, not anyone else, LOL.)